Can UPS Still Deliver?

0:00Welcome to We Fixed. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride. We try to put them back better than we found them. UPS is one of those companies. Most of us only notice when something goes wrong. A package arrives on time, we go about our day. It's 10 minutes late and we start pacing the room, but that's not the typical situation. Nearly always the driver knows the route, we all get what we need and life keeps moving. That reliability is not accidental. It comes from a deeply disciplined operating system built over 119 years. So why change anything, right? Well, you have to evolve at the times. Very recently, UPS announced a major new operating model. The company's consolidating responsibility across global air operations, transportation, buildings, engineering, sustainability, all of it. The company's investing heavily in its own efficiency, doubling down on what's working well and leaning into cost cutting measures for areas that are draining revenue. And it's working. The company expects to

1:01achieve around $3 billion in benefits this year. That's efficiency doing what it's supposed to do. So the question is not whether UPS should become more efficient. Every company needs to improve. The question is, how do you rebuild a massive operating machine without losing the human judgment and culture that made that machine work for over a century? Well, fortunately our guest today knows this machine from the inside. Noll Massey is retired by his president of U.S. delivery operations from UPS. He's now an author, executive coach and leadership consultant. Noll, tell us a little bit more about you. Well, thank you, Aaron. And thanks for that warm introduction. I worked for UPS for 42 years. My last role I had responsibility to support the 17 presidents and two regions in the U.S. and I reported directly to the Management Committee. And at the end of the day, any and all things do with the last mile delivery aspect of the business. I was a president for five business units. Thank you, Noll. You've seen a lot of growth and a lot of change and there's more change

2:05coming. So you're obviously the perfect guest to discuss this with Chino Melissa and me. Melissa, UPS is disrupting a lot at once, standardizing, consolidating. Give us more. What is UPS changing and why should we all be paying attention right now? Reducing operational roles and moving away from planned Amazon volume that no longer fits the economics or direction of the business. The company closed 45 facilities in the first half of the year, reduced nearly 30,000 operational positions and expects about 3 billion in benefits from its network, reconfiguration and efficiency programs. This raises the question I think a lot of leaders will recognize. When does your book is customer, stop being an engine of growth and start becoming and constraint to the business, right? Because more volume is not always better volume. I always talk about that, you know, not every customer is a great customer. Sometimes it creates density and scale, but sometimes it drives complexity, consumes capacity, really stresses and strains your employees and requires expensive work

3:09around. And forces the entire company to be at the back and call and operate around one customer's needs. So we're not here to ask whether UPS should change because that's obvious that they are really believing that they need to. The question is whether UPS can become leaner, more global and more efficient without becoming too lean to handle the messy unpredictable moments that have defined this customer trust. Can it rebuild this machine without weakening the people, the judgment and the operating culture inside it? No, you know the business from the inside. Obviously, when you look at this new structure and the larger reset UPS has been making, what do you think the company is really trying to solve here? And what would you be most careful about not to lose? The organization only looks as though it is dynamically changing to those outside of it. If you are a UPSer, like Nando and Matt Duffy, who I congratulated incidentally just yesterday, Matt and I worked together,

4:10I worked with Nando as well. We've always had this dynamic change model culturally, behaviorally, and not just within the leadership ranks, but all the way down to the front line. Now, that's not to suggest, like in any organization, that people wake up in the morning and go, just change my life as much as possible. Okay, that only works if you're going to give them more money, right? But any other change will be met with what change is met with. The change that's happening today actually began in earnest, this particular iteration actually began in earnest around 2010, 20, 20, after the financial crisis in 2007. Some very obvious changes needed to be made into management structure. And as I mentioned, we went from 50 business units to 20. And so think about 30 presidents being told, you're no longer a president. Right. 30 CFOs being told, you're not a CFO any longer. Head of engineering, we have to

5:15absorb you into the organization. That was the moment when the organization knew that the future was going to be very, very different than the past. So it seems sudden from the outside, but you're saying it's 26 years in the making. Yes, Chris, this moment. Yeah, at least 16, dramatically after 2007, I'd call an error and I'd say 18. So it's 2018. We had subtle changes. And 95 was the first time we had a buyout, right? I was transferred from Oakland, California, where I'm from, to Philadelphia, right? To be the second in command in Philadelphia, the outgrowth of what triggered that move for me then was a buyout. It was unheard of. The order of days you had a buyout, it was like, are you kidding me? We have a, we thought this was like the forever job. And that really was the most dramatic change moment that occurred in the organization in 95. But it's single to leadership team that change was here and it just kept going. And we became

6:22very expected of change, very expected. You know, how does that work organizationally when you have top level leadership? And then you do such a, you know, dramatic reorg. And then you say, you used to have that seat and you don't have it anymore. Look, what are the dynamics that the happen as a result? Yeah, it's a very interesting thing. It's interesting what you're saying, all of like, you've always had kind of the ethos of like, things are going to change. What that looks like might change. But to expect that, you know, since the buyout is an interesting. So, you know, you got two kind of ways to do it. Are you hiring people knowing that, you know what, this is not a for sure. This is not going to be your forever job. This is not going to stay the same. Is that something that you're building into your culture? You're sharing all the, you know, every day is like, you know, we are here now, but for us to continue to grow and to be relevant and to be the top, we know that this is going to look different in a year, 10 years, 20 years from now. And so,

7:28that takes a different type of person when you're doing the hiring to say, we need people who are more agile, who are open to change, right? And, you know, with any change management, not everybody is going to agree, you know, we're talking about people's livelihoods, right? And so, you know, no one is a number. That scares people when that happens. So, if you're the folks that have stayed, and again, unless as you shared, so a lot of the operational, I think it's about, when you say, 30,000 operational roles have just been eliminated. And so, in today's market, where there's a lot of uncertainty within the market, that does leave the people who are left behind of like, what about me? Is this going to be, you know, I might just, did I just make it safe to the first round? And are there going to be other layoffs in the future, which we've seen a time and time again with other businesses? And so, for the leaders that are there, is trying to keep that momentum and to build

8:33that psychological safety as, you know, here's why we've kept you and trying to be as transparent as possible. But we can't ignore the fact that it does change the makeup and DNA of what it was, and it does leave people a little more scared moving into a future. And so, I think it's really important with UPS, as they continue to make these changes, is to make sure that they're keeping the people on who are a little more resistant and open to being agile. And, you know, hopefully, in a humane way, you know, giving people and, you know, trying to support them in kind of their new journeys. But it really all comes down to like the hiring and the types of folks that you're bringing to the table and the conversation that leaderships have. Here's something I've done for work that I'll never volunteer for again, writing a step-by-step process document. It's tedious, it's time consuming, and after all that effort, it just kind of sits there. Which is why I really like what

9:33today's sponsor, Scrib, has built for companies. Scrib is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500, and I've had a chance to see it in action. Instead of stopping what you're doing to document a process, Scrib captures the process as you work, including clicks, steps, and screenshots, and automatically turns it into a clear step-by-step guide that's ready to review and share. Scrib's AI can even look at that workflow and suggest where steps could be simplified or automated, and with the guide me feature, anyone you choose can follow that same process with real-time on-screen instructions showing them exactly where to click. And don't worry, it can automatically redact sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers so you can share with confidence. Look, don't just document your process, why not find ways to make it better? To see what Scrib could look like for your organization, head to scribe.how slash fixed it, and mention we fixed it for your first month of Scrib capture free on select plans. That's scribe.how slash f-i-x-e-d-i-t.

10:37Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become the best in the neighborhood. Whether you're growing your business or just trying to keep up with it, Square knows what you need. You can take payments online orders, manage your inventory staff and more all in one place. That means that when you're with a customer, you're actually with that customer, and they can tell you got things under control. For one, you're focused to not running around like crazy. That's because the whole thing's designed to be easy to use. The last time I stopped by a cafe where I saw the Square logo, I was like, yeah, they get it. I knew my experience would be a great one and it was. It was good coffee too. And Square now offers three plans so you can pick the tools you need. So what are you doing about your business? Well, let's help you out. Square's offering our listeners up to $200 off Square Hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash we fixed it again. squ a re.com slash go slash we fixed it and set up your business the way it works for you. I think I also think this is a very unique situation for us as a panel

11:43because well, maybe not for no, but for us in discussion because we've talked a lot about companies today and a lot of those companies are newer companies. They don't have the reputation and the longevity of a company like UPS. So I was mentioning to Noel before hand that I've been in the transportation world myself and logistics world myself and a lot of the folks I knew from UPS stay there like Noel forever. And that is a very different employee base than you're seeing at a lot of these different companies today where there's a lot of turnover. You're not staying at a company for more than four years. You're going on to the next best salary, you're going on to the next best title, those kinds of things. So for me, this is very interesting because Noel, you've brought up a really impactful statement here about the strategy has been in place for a very long time. And when you look at startups, they're like for them to be

12:49thinking a 10 year strategy when they've only been around for two or three years is usually not there. To be honest, I've sat at the table with the C suite and we're not talking about that, we're talking about three months for now. So I think that this is really amazing that like for us on the outside, we are looking at this as, oh, this is a big change. What about globalizing, globalizing localization stepping away from Amazon. Yet it's been going on for 10 years that they've been trying to figure out, okay, what is our strategy? What's our business strategy? So that they're looking at the long game, but to your point, you know, you have to have the right people in place to be able to do that and the change management and creating a culture of safety and security, yet innovation and understanding that this is what it's going to take to continue to be, you know, the global leader that they are is really important because you know, you have all these people kind of coming in and trying

13:50to undercut and kind of get this like niche logistics avenue, right? And even Amazon, like they've tried to go and do transportation themselves. They've tried to do a little bit, you know, back and forth. And, you know, so I do think it's a very interesting dilemma because even though it looks like it might be a question that needs or if, you know, a problem that needs to be solved, I'm hearing from you, Joel, are a know that you've said that this has been going on for a time. So they've actually been trying to solve this in a long and long term strategy way. That's only from a short term. I said 2007, but I don't want to point this point to be lost in this conversation because everything you're both pointing to is absolutely correct. Here's what's different. When I worked before I retired, I never went to work for anyone but me. I was the owner in the business. From the time I was 23,

14:52I had shares as a portion of my compensation. I worked with my partners. I didn't work with a bunch of management employees. We worked as owners of the business. We came from the floor from the bottom. We were hourly people. So when we were leading other teamsters, we came from that piece of cloth. So we understood the nature of the physical work. So the ownership of the business is not the same as many of these companies that hire people for a moment. They need to get rid of 30,000 people. You know, the famous crowd strike move where they did it by Zoom or something during COVID. I mean, it still lives today, right? UPS, the business model that Jim Casey installed in the company made a really important aspect as of 1945 when managers became owners. When the founding four turned the shares over to the people running the company. All of the changes that occurred after World War Two,

15:56where we went from 20 facilities to 400. That was done with share value of the managers. That was done with my stock. That's how we grew the company and expanded the business. So when change came, it was obviously a change for our personal benefit and survival. And so, and even then, still, there was grudgingly. Don't give me wrong. We didn't sit around and do kumbai-as at all times when change. People don't be operate though. But one thing that was clear to everyone at all times, including the service providers who make a delivery to your front door. We came in the door every day. It's a low margin business. Great margin in that business is 15. It's an asset heavy business. Vehicles, tires, fuel, buildings, new roofs, cement. It's an asset heavy business. We were very good at making sure our people understood that. The 50-year-old driver understood it was

16:57an asset heavy business. A MAC truck was expensive. That's how he or she made a living. If we needed a new one, we couldn't be asking for permission. That aircraft, same thing. But the point of the matter that I'm crystallizing here is that change when it was approached by owners of the business in mass. That's become more challenging generationally in the last decade. No question. Millennials, Gen Z. The ownership model has some different peculiarities to it today. Then it did say 20, 30 years ago. But the cultural ethos of ownership is as strong today as it was when I was a supervisor. That's different. That's very different than other companies, especially technology companies. It's really interesting that you're pointing that out because it does change the dynamics from day one or from the minute you have some vested ownership. When

17:58you don't have any kind of autonomy or ownership or seat at the table, you're at the whims of that company and you just follow in the wake of those changes and try to make the best out of it that you can and stay in survival mode. It's really interesting that a company of this global scale has changed so baked into the DNA. One of the solutions to change acceptance, not maybe not with the smile all the time, but is ownership. From the time I was promoted to a supervisor and I was 23, I owned and had responsibility and decision making authority for the area I was responsible for. There wasn't a minute in my career where I waited for orders. Of course, we had standardization. I think that was Melissa. You talked about that and the challenges with standardization. Certainly in supply chain, you have to have standardization. But you could make decisions in ownership. Wasn't just how many shares you had. Ownership was literally given to you to make decisions

19:04around your work group, your area, let alone being a manager. When you were a manager and we gave you 100 delivery vehicles and 120 employees and you were the manager. You made the decisions with the customers that were in your 5,000 customers you were servicing. You decided many large business related things. Now, of course, you had a support staff. But the point is, it wasn't just shares. The ownership of responsibility was there as well. That's why when you talk about the change and structure, there's not an overwhelming concern around that because of the cultural nature of the business. They know that the person who's replacing the one that left is going to walk through the door and use the same cultural policy book that the last person. Here's a policy book. Here's a policy as an example for you. And I just spoke about this on another show. When an employee had a complaint, the policy is really clear for leadership in our policy book

20:06and our black and white policy book. We're responding to employee complaint with prompts and sear attention where misunderstandings exist. The employee is given the benefit of the doubt. That's in black and white. From the time I was 23, I heard that 50 years ago, 48 years ago. So I think this is really key to this whole question then. What you're saying is the principle is standardized the guardrail. So standardize what needs to be standardized, but localize the judgment. So continue to localize that ownership and leadership. That hasn't changed. Because that hasn't changed. You have changes at the top that are apparent to us outside of UPS that might seem pretty drastic. But in reality, to your point, that's not really that drastic. Here's something I've done for work that I'll never volunteer for again, writing a step-by-step process document. It's

21:08tedious. It's time consuming. And after all that effort, it just kind of sits there, which is why I really like what today's sponsor scribe has built for companies. Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500. And I've had a chance to see it in action. Instead of stopping what you're doing to document a process, scribe captures the process as you work, including clicks, steps, and screenshots, and automatically turns it into a clear step-by-step guide that's ready to review and share. Scribe's AI can even look at that workflow and suggest where steps can be simplified or automated. And with the guide me feature, anyone you choose can follow that same process with real-time on-screen instructions showing them exactly where to click. And don't worry, it can automatically redact sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers so you can share with confidence. Look, don't just document your process. Why not find ways to make it better? To see what scribe could look like for your organization, head to scribe.how slash fixed it.

22:08And mention we fixed it for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans that's scribe.how slash f-i-x-e-d-i-t. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become the best in the neighborhood. Whether you're growing your business or just trying to keep up with it, Square knows what you need. You can take payments online orders, manage your inventory staff, and more all in one place. That means that when you're with a customer, you're actually with that customer, and they can tell you got things under control. For one, you're focused on not running around like crazy. That's because the whole thing's designed to be easy to use. The last time I stopped by a cafe where I saw the square logo, I was like, yeah, they get it. I knew my experience would be a great one and it was. It was good coffee too. And Square now offers three plans so you can pick the tools you need. So what are you doing about your business? Well, let's help you out. Square's offering our listeners up to $200 off Square Hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash we fixed it again. squ-ar-e.com slash go slash we fixed it and set up your business

23:17the way it works for you. I just had dinner yesterday. This is very the Tuesday. With the new president, the president was just installed in Illinois. He has all of Illinois, Missouri and Kansas. And he when I was the vice president of the US delivery operations, he worked in Houston and he was a mid-level manager in Houston. And so he got promoted. I knew he was here. Let him get his feet settled. I had my assistant reach out for him and say, Jim, let's go out the dinner. I like to welcome and congratulate you. So we had dinner the other day. And so this is what he said to me. Literally, he goes, I'm here because of you. And now he says remember when we met in Sweetwater in Houston. And I'm like, well, you know, a lot of you guys, okay? And all I'm a studio. I remember you. I remember your face. I remember when we put you in the assignment and why I said, but refresh my memory. And he goes, I'm here because of you. He says, you set out with me. And you made this point to me. It's going to be tough days, hard days, and long days.

24:25Because not one day you won't get support. Be you. And he sent that to me. And the point is, it's not that I'm the smartest guy in the room or I created this elegant culture. That's the way I was raised. We had a culture. And I would like to point out to people. I say, UPS is strength as an organization has nothing to do with how many packages are picked up a day and what the technology is. And the culture is a Yoda culture. It's a Yoda culture. Everyone needs a Yoda. Right? It really literally is that when I was a young person, I had a mentor. Glenn LeBreck, my manager, we weren't human memos, okay? He invested in us. He made deposits. Therefore, he could expect withdrawals from us. People are like banks. Go to a bank and say, hey, I like some money. Sure. Okay. How much you got in here? Nothing. Okay. Good luck with that. People are the same way. If you have nothing in them, good luck with that.

25:28Right? UPS is culture literally with with intention. Like almost like, you know, I would say to people, Bible churches have Bibles. UPS had a partnership legacy. Okay? And it was real. And you started to learn it from the beginning. So the point of me saying that is that gave you a certain comfort that you mattered, that change would happen, but you mattered. That's become more challenging. No question in the last decade. But that culture is still very strong as I gave an example with the person I had dinner with. And it's really in the DNA of the leaders you talked about that have just been redeployed. They are the embodiment of that Yoda culture, if you will. It's such a different mentality because we're so used to talking to companies and about companies. The way employees are treated like, you know, liability or a drain on resources or you don't know whether you have a job from day to day, one day to the next, but to feel so ingrained into the

26:32company from a cultural standpoint and also from your position matters and your expertise matters and you're part of this. It's refreshing. It's, you know, it's something we've been at this for a while. We haven't heard that from too many companies in all honesty. Sure. And I get that because I work with a lot of small businesses. But the Amazon question that Melissa brought up, like us to talk about why that is actually occurring. I think that's an important part of the cultural shift that's happening at the supply chain, not just at UPS, but I think it's happening in the world of logistics. That was the disruptor, right? That was the disruption, the unforeseen disruption. You know, Amazon was the MP3 player to the CD, you know, for supply chain companies. It really was. Amazon coming along. I remember as a manager, when we would get one Amazon trailer a day to the Oakland

27:37distribution center, okay? Back in the mid 90s, okay? They were like this regular shipper. They weren't even as big as QVC or home shopping network. So I remember when that was, right? When there was no Amazon. And we saw that organization grow from Kindles to a strategic plan where they started to just 20x. You can't 20x assets, hard assets. You can't, right? And so in the beginning of the process, it was okay. We had the capacity. That became a very difficult thing on the organization's cat-x planning, resources, hiring needs as the organization went through the 2000s, the teams, if you will, right? The decision, it was an, in an understand, it wasn't a lightly taken decision. We talked about how to handle that growth pretty much as a standard conversation in every business

28:43meeting we had. You get the scale of the things I'm talking about. Amazon blue projections, not because they intentionally blue projections. It wasn't something they tried to do to harm UPS by like 30, 40% on their airshipments. I had the, I had the fly seven extra aircraft in a single day. I needed seven airline pilots, crews. It was a nightmare. It literally was the biggest wake up call the organization had around the unpredictable nature of this on assets. And the organization burned just a ton of cash in the process. There was nothing about that event that was profitable for any, any, any, any employee, any driver. You know, everybody had to give something up for that, right? We paid them 50 cents a package to fly that stuff is what it ended up becoming, right? So conversations began about, I would say around 2013 to start modifying with Amazon. The

29:49decision to decouple, if you will, FedEx actually did that well before UPS. It wasn't met with popularity in the beginning, but today you look at FedEx, or like $300 a share there of like 200 percent or something, so they made that decision. And so UPS gave Amazon choices and it's not as though there aren't any Amazon packages in the network. But clearly, the ones that are beneficial to the organization to carry are the ones the organization decided to keep. It's interesting too, because Amazon also puts stress on that delivery expectation with the clients and adding Amazon Prime. So at the beginning, everybody was like, okay, if I have Amazon Prime, I'm getting it within two hours, getting it within, you know, two days was originally the plan. And so this is, you know, one of those scenarios that a lot of companies go through where you want to have that big catch.

30:54You want to have the biggest customer, but it doesn't necessarily always benefit you because it's not successful if you can't figure that out. You can't, you know, and if you think about all the things that go into actually delivering a package, right, there's so much that goes into that. And to your point, there's, you know, the hardcore resources and aspects of it, there's just, you know, the logistics of everything, of getting everything to where it needs to be. And then the delivery aspect of it, and people are never happy if it doesn't come on time. And there are many reasons for things not to come on time. And to your point, this is where the, you know, the leadership model that UPS has in place where they leave, you know, a lot up to the local owner is really important. But at the same time, you're putting your local owners in really tough positions when there are

31:58things that are beyond their control, but they're having to answer for that, right? So when I lived in San Antonio, we had the same UPS delivery guy, we called him skinny legs because he looked so funny in his little brown uniform. And he was great. And he understood my schedule like he knew our schedule for work and my husband belonged to a wine club. And we couldn't have it delivered to our house unless somebody was there. And he actually would text me and be like, I'm going to deliver everywhere else in the neighborhood. Are you, are you going to be there by six o'clock? Are you going to be home? Some of the over 21 because I can't deliver it to you. And it's 100 degrees outside. You guys don't want that going back to the warehouse, you know, and I just love that, like that ownership and that ability. But I think that like when you kind of, you know, I feel like a lot of companies and customers and own, you know, and businesses, you get so entranced with that idea of like, oh,

33:06we're going to partner with Amazon, we're going to partner with the biggest, we're going to partner with Apple, we're going to partner with whoever is the biggest. And then you don't think about how that actually impacts your business in the way that it does. And there's always a price. But no, you've brought up that there's, it's more than just money. There's, there's all these other aspects to it. So I really think that that's an, you know, it's an interesting concept. And it, you know, strategically to decouple from somebody like Amazon who just went gangbusters and no one, you know, they're just now everybody just buys everything on Amazon. Here's something I've done for work that I'll never volunteer for again, writing a step-by-step process document. It's tedious, it's time consuming. And after all that effort, it just kind of sits there, which is why I really like what today's sponsor scribe has built for companies. Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500. And I've had a chance to see it in action.

34:07Instead of stopping what you're doing to document a process, scribe captures the process as you work, including clicks, steps and screenshots and automatically turns it into a clear step-by-step guide that's ready to review and share. Scribe's AI can even look at that workflow and suggest where steps can be simplified or automated. And with the guide me feature, anyone you choose can follow that same process with real-time on-screen instructions showing them exactly where to click. And don't worry, it can automatically redact sensitive information like names, emails and account numbers so you can share with confidence. Look, don't just document your process, why not find ways to make it better. To see what scribe could look like for your organization, head to scribe.how slash fixed it, and mention we fixed it for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans. That's scribe.how slash f-i-x-e-d-i-t. Support for today's episode comes from square. The business platform that helps sellers become the best in the neighborhood. Whether you're growing

35:09your business or just trying to keep up with it, square knows what you need. You can take payments online orders, manage your inventory staff and more all in one place. That means that when you're with a customer, you're actually with that customer. And they can tell you got things under control. For one, you're focused on not running around like crazy. That's because the whole thing's designed to be easy to use. The last time I stopped by a cafe where I saw the square logo, I was like, yeah, they get it. I knew my experience would be a great one and it was. It was good coffee too. And square now offers three plans so you can pick the tools you need. So what are you doing about your business? Well, let's help you out. Squares offering our listeners up to $200 off square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash we fixed it. Again, squ, a re dot com slash go slash we fixed it and set up your business the way it works for you. And different industries too. You think if we if we only can sell into Costco or sell into Walmart, then we've got it made, but that may not be the ultimate state of the company. Maybe there's

36:12an evolution beyond that. There's also something to think about too. And as you know, we're talking about like the big whale that is Amazon and and decoupling that. And I think, you know, on this theme and like, you know, what you were talking about, no, where UPS has become successful and state successful is the fact that you had vested interest in your people that you had the autonomy to do what you did. And so for your people who love that autonomy and are saying, no, I'm being kind of, you know, run over for like a better word by Amazon, it lessens that culture of of that autonomy and it kind of removes yourself away from that ethos of being able to like kind of control not the narrative, but just your surroundings and, you know, helping out your people. And if it's going to be a strain on you as a business. And if you as a president or an owner within UPS and you're not able to make those same decisions because you have one customer that is dictating

37:16everything, it's not as fun to work there anymore. And so yes, the money can be great. It's costing a lot of money. So it's actually not great. So there's operationally not great there. But from a culture perspective, you're actually moving away from what UPS and where the success has come from. So there's a psychological and kind of like cultural aspect to that as well. That I think needs to be considered when any company is looking at the big whale is like, what how is this going to actually impact our business? And is this removing ourselves from what we stand for? To a certain extent, but, you know, I want to I want to qualify one part of what what you know just talked about because I agree with her. However, here's what happened with in that scenario because you've so decentralized P&L for the manager who runs Santa Barbara is that manager's responsibility. They have a certain amount of equipment they're allocated, blah, blah, blah, blah, boom, right. And success is an expectation daily service every package every

38:19day. We leave like, you know, you hear the breeze go, we leave no soldier behind a UPS, we leave no package behind it. That is an absolute religion. The strength of the organization is culture. And I can't emphasize that enough. Culture is discussed and developed at the top. CEOs, management committee, it's executed at the bottom. As the US vice president, when I was a president, let alone as vice president, US operations, I go into building Miami. I was in Miami in high Alia and a 54 year old driver comes over to me named Sammy and he says, you're no messy. And I go, yes, he goes, I want to thank you. I go, okay. Okay, I'm going to accept that. I said, for what? He goes, my manager, they had a hurricane. He says, my manager, just reinforced in our daily meeting with his daily meeting with the 60 delivery drivers. That if it's safe, we're not doing it. If there's any question, there's no question. And he said, you said that. That's exactly right. Employees, when they work for a company, they're selling their

39:25energy, they're swept, they're time, they're not selling their dignity, they're not selling their respect. Okay, you can walk by and employing through $100 on the table and go, hey, nice job helping that customer. And then the next day come in and say, disrespectful things and yelling, that $100 means nothing. Okay, at the end of the day. But that's a real thing. And there's companies that would be well served to understand it. That the time when you need it the most, and I think to Chino's point is when you are going through massive change. That's when your people need to know they matter to you the most. And that's been a strength of the company from inception. Well, if that let's fix this, we can do it. I think this one's pretty straightforward. And we're not, you know, I'm not here to say UPS is a perfect company. You know, you can do that. That's right. But there's a lot of lessons learned here. If you're going to go undergo massive change, it seems like massive change from the outside. And we've learned in front of reality. This is a

40:26constant change and a movement that's been 2026, 25, 11 years in the making. So there's a lot of deliberation behind it. It's just that we're getting to the point in time where it's execution time. So change, you can change all the time constantly. And then you can do these longer plays that are more methodical. And where it just seems like turbulent from the outside. But there's no saying when you're an insider from the UPS perspective, this is this is daily life. Say yes to the business units that the business lines that benefit your people say no, and it no longer serves you. And then give your people the autonomy, the freedom, the dignity to do the jobs that carry those out the way that they see fit with mentorship and guidance and ownership. That's something a lot of companies could learn from even from low early early level employees is give them give them some stake in the company, give them a reason to be beyond just making ends meet or picking up a paycheck

41:30every so often. That is going to bring this care factor that I think has kept UPS around for 119 years and counting and probably for well into the foreseeable future. And if we carry out, you know, we'll let the company do what they do. If we stand back and say UPS, you got this one covered, I mean, that's about as best of a fix as we can do. Did Chino, do you think we fixed it? I think we fixed it. And I think for new companies today that want to learn something. If you want to get into 119 years, the key things that we learned are investing your people, right? Understand that change is going to come. That's only where you're going to grow. So build that into your strategy, right? That is what's going to take you along for a minute. That's part of your ethos. And you care about your people, like Noel said, very eloquently. People are like banks. You put into them. They'll give you much more back. And if companies can think of that and look at people as people and humans and not numbers, they will do more for you when you're company. You'll go

42:34further and you will last longer like UPS has. And so I think take the blueprint and run with it the same way that UPS has been there. So I think yes, we fixed it. Thanks, Chino. Melissa, if we mainly stay out of the way on this one and let things run their course, do we fix it? Yeah, I think this is a great analogy to the tortoise and the hare. I think that UPS has really taken the long view of this. And I would say that one of the things would be to continue to understand what needs to be localized and stay local. And then what can be global. And I know that's kind of where they're going right now. Also replacing that lost customer, lost customer volume, the Amazon's of the world with a better fit growth strategy. And I think of course that's what they look to and understanding your worth. I mean, I think UPS understood their worth and said, we're not going to do this for free. It's not worth it to us. And then continuing to protect at all costs, this ownership and accountability culture that really is one that showcases that transformation

43:44doesn't need to be the most painful thing on the table. So really, and no, appreciate your insights to this. Yeah, no quick, quick tag final word with everything we've talked about if we say, keep doing what you're doing. Keep plugging in, keep giving your employees the autonomy and the ownership and just be UPS. Did we fix it? We fixed it. Fantastic. Well, that's going to wrap up today's episode. We're about to ship off before we do. I want to give a big thanks to Chino, Melissa and to our special guest, Noel Massey. Noel, how can we find your book and how can we all keep up with what you're doing now? Hey, thanks for asking that. My book title is Congrats. You've been promoted. The essential guide for new leaders and their teams to succeed. Noelmassey.com, simple, my name.com takes you to my website where you can see all of the content we have around the book and the education on the book. And it's done well. I've been very humbled by that Simon and

44:48Houston's publisher and then Mission Driven Press carried it forward. And it's done very well and working with a few companies on leadership development. And we'd be happy to work with yours. Thanks, Noel. It's been great having you here. To our listeners, our Fixaholics, thank you for tuning into our new season. We are on our roll. If you want another episode delivered straight to you, all you have to do is subscribe. And you can also visit our archives at wefixtipod.com. If you want to send us a topic, drop us an email there too. We'll be back with an all-new one next week. And we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of WeFixt.com. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.