Celebrating Women in Film with Vanguard

This program is brought to you with Vanguard.

Well, that's very nice, but why?

Well, they're full of expertise, Mark.

Vanguard's managed Iser is a stocks and shares Iser and Vanguard's experts manage your investments

for you. So it feels like we'll be in safe hands doing a show in partnership with them.

And for the 60% of women who say that lack of confidence or knowledge stops from investing,

the Vanguard managed Iser could be a great starting point to get into investing with confidence,

no matter how much time or experience you have, I have neither.

So dedicating a full show to women in film to mark international women's day

and explore some of the incredible work done at the moment feels like a very sensible idea.

Yeah, okay, so let's crack on now. Can I have some stats here?

Yes. So I have mentioned this before, but the good lady Professor Herin Doors was involved in a very important research project,

which is called Calling the Shots, Women and Contemporary Film Culture in the UK.

What they did was they studied films made between 2003 and 2015.

I think it was like nearly three and a half thousand films.

And they were looking at, they were counting the numbers of women in six key production roles.

And when they announced their findings, I mean, everybody knew that women were having a very hard time in the film industry,

certainly in terms of statistically, but the statistics were worse than anyone could have imagined.

So for example, 14% of directors and 7% of cinematographers were women.

So those are very, very low statistics, just 1% of all directors and 0.3% of cinematographers were women of color.

Women make up 24% of directors on co-productions with other countries, but just 11% on domestic UK films.

They also found that more than half of British films in production in 2015 had just one or no women in any of the six key roles that they were talking about.

And what the research was there to do was to demonstrate just how big the gender imbalance was in this particular case,

looking at the UK film industry in that period.

But that has a knock on effect, which is that it means that the film industry, certainly in that period as described,

and there's loads of interviews and statistics, you can look it up, it's called Calling the Shots,

it's a really, really great project, is gender imbalanced worse than anyone had imagined?

So the question I guess would be, if so that was 2003, you said to 2015,

is it any better than 10 years since?

The general feeling was that change is happening, but it is happening very slowly.

So the imbalance is still very, very big.

And what that means is that when you're talking about films and filmmakers,

you are more often talking about men than women because there are so many more men in those key creative roles.

And as far as this show is concerned, we do try and book female guests as often as we can,

but it is a struggle at times, no matter how hard we search.

Now Heather works on the show.

She's a guest booker and assistant producer and normally turns up with a Scottish accent

and also with a rather bizarre American accent.

Are there any other voices that you have apart from your own one, Heather? What else is there?

Oh, I mean, I try and do a possible Australian occasionally.

Oh, that's true, that's true.

Do a bit of a Dick Van Dyke sometimes, if I can get away with this.

All right, okay.

So that's how you might know Heather's work.

Obviously, you just want to get the best guest.

But if you're specifically trying to find the best women guests,

is that difficult, do you think?

It can be. It can be.

And I think that that tends to be because when I'm booking guests,

I'm looking for great guests, great names, you know,

people that the listeners want to hear from.

And we're looking for films that have got a really wide release

so that the most possible people will have a chance to see the films that we cover.

So we're looking for things that are, you know, national and international releases.

And unfortunately, fewer of those tend to be made by women

and featuring women in prominent roles than men still.

So that tends to be the difficulty that I encounter, I think,

is that, you know, at that kind of top a list level,

female talent isn't still isn't getting equal exposure to the men.

Yeah.

Is it getting better or not no change?

I hope so.

I think so.

I think that, you know, we can actively encourage it by booking female guests

wherever we can whenever they're doing really interesting work that people should be hearing about.

One of my first ever jobs as a guest booker was on a feminist film podcast years and years ago.

And I do think that, you know, that felt like a bit of an outlier thing to be doing then.

And it's, I think it is getting better now.

But as Mark says, it's, it's kind of slow progress.

And it's important to keep really actively pursuing the progress, I think.

Can we just flag up that I think that film podcast you're referring to?

That's the girls on film podcasts. Yeah.

Yes, that's one. Yeah.

But recommend it.

It's really, really worth listening to.

Even though it's a different podcast.

Yeah, I know, but it's possible to listen to more than one podcast assignment.

Why would she?

Why would you have a favorite guest that you've booked?

I mean, Kate Winslet who we had on recently at Christmas was absolutely fantastic and super nice.

And, you know, just a multi-talent and a real inspiration.

I was personally really, really chuffed to have Maxine Peacon because I love her.

And she was really, really nice to me when I first met her when I was just a wean starting out in the industry.

And everything she does, she really kind of throws herself into.

Catherine Bigelow, you know, amaze in history making female director.

I wrote some of my university dissertation on her work.

So when I booked her, I was pretty chuffed.

We've had some great, great names.

Kate Blanchett as well for that weird guy maddened film rumours.

And I love she does what she wants.

She does what she wants.

Yes.

Is there someone who you would love to be able to book, but haven't yet?

I'm not sure that you've had her on before, but before my time, certainly.

So Lynn Ramsey, I absolutely love, I think she's fantastic.

I know that she can be a bit of a tough interview to bag.

I'd love to have her on.

I would also, I mean, I love people like Juliet Binosh and things like that.

You know, real big sort of big, big names.

I'd love to get somebody like her on.

Ramsey made Die My Love, which is my favorite film of 2025.

Actually, it's interesting.

I'm just looking back over the last 10 years.

Raw, Juliet De Cornel.

Yeah.

Leave no trace.

St. Mord, petite, normal, after son, past lives.

There is an extraordinary array of female directors, but still numerically,

they are massively outnumbered by the men.

Now, one of the guests, Heather mentioned there was Kate Winslet,

who obviously was on the show just a few months back.

Here's a little clip from the interview.

Mark had just asked Kate whether it had been difficult at all,

being a first-time female director.

There's a different language that is used when addressing female directors to male directors.

There's a different set of language that is used,

talking to actresses who become directors as opposed to male actors who become directors.

Strangely with male actors, and this is absolutely no criticism of them at all,

because when I think about the brilliant young actors in this country

who have been directing recently, it's incredibly exciting.

But they're just sort of allowed to get on with it.

It's somehow there's this societal assumption that they will automatically know what they're doing,

whereas the same assumption is not made of women.

Right.

And that's not right, and actually it's not fair,

because what it does mean is that it will be harder for us to get films made,

harder for us to get the kind of budgets that we need to make those films.

When you're a woman, you do a huge amount of ringing around and calling in favors.

So sometimes, with a budget like Good By June,

you might be asking people to come and work for less than their weekly rate.

I'm talking about department heads and their crew.

You know, sometimes people take a little bit of a hit

because they want to come and be part of that experience,

and they want to support you.

And we did have that on Good By June.

But there's a, yeah, I mean, I do remember someone in position of authority.

And this was another woman saying this to me.

A woman in a position of authority, early on,

said after seeing an early cut of the film,

which was by no means near to being completed.

I think you could just use a little bit more confidence with some of your choices.

That person would not have said that if I was a man,

they simply wouldn't have done.

And this person is a really decent human being,

and I was able to sit with her and say,

we've just got to unlearn this.

We've all got to unlearn it.

It's in all of us, the men and the women.

And it's not, it's really not okay.

I was Kate Winslet talking to us just before Christmas.

And that's all you can watch the whole thing

because we filmed that interview

with our favorite photoshoot, I think, of the year.

Because I remember because it was directed by Kate Winslet.

Yeah, she moved the lights around

and made sure that it all looked fabulous.

Incidentally, Good By June is on Netflix.

You can watch it there.

And during the Christmas period,

it was for a while there,

and then number one streamed title, which is great.

So we put a call out on social media here from you

about the most talented women working in film.

At the moment, Joe Fairweather went to Thelma's schoolmaker.

So Mark, talk more about Thelma.

I mean, where do you begin?

Thelma's schoolmaker is the great,

one of the great editors of our time.

I mean, she's had this very longstanding collaboration

with Martin Scorsese.

She's got, I think it's three Oscars, two BAFTAs.

She has cut movies, you know,

like Raging Bull, Aviator, Departed, Goodfellas.

And she is one of the people who is able to discuss

the craft of filmmaking as eloquently

as she is able to conduct it.

I want sat with Thelma's schoolmaker

whilst she was editing a Scorsese film

I was doing an interview with her for a television program.

And they let me sit in the editing room

and watch her work for a few hours.

And it is just the most astonishing thing.

Yeah, she is an absolute legend

and one of the great editors of our time.

And Thelma was on the show,

not so long back,

which is why we started saying Scorsese Rowan.

Yeah, she corrected A.C.

She told us.

Anyway, here's a reminder.

My world has always been radio-thelma.

And in radio, there are many, many producers of a certain age

who miss the physicality of editing on tape.

They would be editing a conversation.

They would take out a breath.

They would put the breath around their neck

so they could put it back in.

And they'd have the china graph

and they'd have the splicing tape.

And they loved the physicality.

The razor blade and the china graph.

Do you miss the physicality of editing, Sally Lloyd?

I did, you know,

and when I was being trained by my fellow editor

who I was a terrible student, I would say,

oh, this is ridiculous.

I could do this much easier on film right.

I was a very bad student.

And about two weeks in,

I sort of clicked over,

this happened on Casino.

And because all the producers were saying at that point,

you have to switch to digital.

You have to switch to digital.

And George Lucas was pushing it very hard.

I suddenly clicked in.

And now what happens on a film like Killers of the Flower Moon

is we are doing things we could never have done on film.

I loved editing on film.

I loved it.

However, now we can create our own visual effects,

even before we go to the big visual effect house,

which will do the big work.

So digital has brought incredible tools to us.

It doesn't mean that the films are any better.

Great masterpieces were made in the silent era,

where they didn't need to have any machines.

They would measure the length of a close-up.

They would put their arms out, you know, three feet and say,

well, this is a good length for a close-up.

The only time they saw the movie together

was when they projected it.

They had no machines at all.

And great masterpieces were made.

So we have better tools,

but it doesn't mean that the films that were made before

are not as good.

That was good-making.

She was a great guest, wasn't she?

She was brilliant.

And can I just say that that is a perfect example

of what I was saying about.

She's somebody who not only can do it,

but can talk about it as well as they can do.

You know, it's what she's saying,

even if you've never done it,

you understand everything she said,

because she's so clear.

She's a genius.

Callum Jack says,

to my mind,

Charlotte Wells,

after son is the best film of the 2020 so far.

Love that film.

And I've recently gone down a rabbit hole

of Tilda Swinton's incomparable career.

Oh, and Saline Siamar, obviously.

Yeah.

Captain Hurley says,

Alice Lowe,

give that woman more funding for directing.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Big fans of Alice Lowe here.

If you've somehow missed the beginning of this,

you're listening to a special

International Women's Day edition.

of the take with our partners at Vanguard.

They're the people whose experts can manage your investments for you

and whose Vanguard managed nicer

can make you great starting point

to investing with confidence.

And they're definitely not just our Vanguard Easter subscribers

getting ideas above their station

and entering the world of finance.

No, no.

I mean, I love our Vanguard Easter's, obviously,

and Patreon Easter's,

but I'm not sure I would trust them with my finances.

Vanguard have been taking a stand for investors

for more than 50 years

with over 50 million clients worldwide

who invest with them.

Yeah, so they do sell not the better bet.

So, right.

Messages on Socials Hannah says,

loved Saline Song's past lives.

Okay, let's play some Saline, I think.

Even after I shot everything I was in the editing room,

there are things that I was letting go of

just so that the sharpness of the ending would work.

So I think to me, it's like,

if you, I mean, when we were shooting the final three minutes,

I think there's so much of that was very much like,

you know, me running around set,

being like, it's like,

if you, if you met to mess this up,

the whole movie is gone.

We have this right, you know,

just mainly to myself.

Is that what you were doing?

It's funny because I feel like what I learned in the first film

and this to me,

making the first movie,

and I'm sure this is true for most directors,

but it really was like a self-discovery or a revelation for myself.

It's such a deep and personal thing.

I'm like, I think it was a discovery that I am a filmmaker.

And then I just, it feels like I,

you know, because you haven't been a playwright.

Yeah, I've been a playwright for 10 years.

So I think that I remember a second week into shooting.

I remember really going home and feeling like,

I think that I love,

that the love of my life.

Oh, and then you're like,

there's no one I'm going to be doing when I'm 90.

Celine Song talking about past lives.

We just knew, didn't we, that she was going to be a star?

It was fantastic because she came back on the show

when she made materialists.

And I think you were off that week and said,

Yes, I'm still better about that.

That's right.

She did the interview.

And they had the most brilliant conversation.

But I know that's the thing,

but yeah, you go away from when we can suddenly song comes.

But yes, past lives was just,

it just did not put a foot wrong.

It absolutely.

And the ending of past lives is that perfect example.

If you go, don't drop it, don't drop it,

don't drop it.

And then she doesn't drop it.

Yeah, absolute star.

A rocking chimp says Chloe Zhao and near the Costa for sure.

They hold two positions in my current top three films of 2026.

So far, let's take a moment with Nea to Costa.

Talking about some of her early film inspiration.

This was when she was on stage with us at the end of last year.

Can I just clarify from this timeline,

how old were you when you saw 28 days later?

Ooh, okay.

So if that came out in 2021,

no, came out in 2002.

It was 12.

You were 12.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess looking back, I'm like,

wow, yeah, that was,

at the time I had an 18 rating here.

Now it's a 15 because we've all, you know,

but you were 12.

I was 12, yeah.

Which is neither 15 nor 18.

I really love scary stuff when I was younger.

Like I love scaring myself and being scared.

And my grandma, my grandma's a drove as witness.

And I'm very much not religious at all, actually.

And she'd come home to,

I'd have to hide from her because I couldn't even watch

like Lionel which is in the wardrobe without her being like,

this is demonic.

So I don't know if I was being rebellious or what,

but I would literally like turn off all the lights

and watch scary things and try not to get caught by my grandma.

We know that Julia DeConna, who made Titan,

said that one of her forms of experiences

was her parents left her in a room with a television

that happened to have cable.

At the age of five,

she watched the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

It's a good answer, I am.

And she became a brilliant filmmaker as a result of it.

Yeah.

But he doesn't know where someone has sex with a car,

apart from that bit.

It's always bothered you.

Yeah.

I like the way you say,

or you always mention that.

As though it's not a bizarre thing,

someone having sex with a car, you know.

But it's just, it's kind of your,

it was, it's like you're, you know,

welcomed in New Zealand where it's raining.

The interesting thing was because near to Costa,

who directed the Bone Temple,

so 28 years later, Bone Temple,

at the point that we interviewed her for that,

for that Christmas show,

I think I'd seen it and you hadn't.

And I remember being so excited about you seeing it,

because you had, you know,

because you'd had that kind of really profound reaction

to the end of the, of the, of the previous film.

And near to Costa,

it made that brilliant thing header,

which was this kind of updated version of,

of header garbler.

And obviously, you know,

she had, she had experience in the horror genre.

But I just love the fact that she saw,

she was twelfth.

It's just great.

No, it's not great.

It is.

But I know it's not great.

Because the whole point of,

I know, I know.

And so there,

and Texas changed about script five.

Yeah, no, that's just nuts.

That's a bad thing.

Yeah, that's a bad thing.

But they should have to be great filmmakers.

So there you go.

David Hopkins says,

could I add a nomination for the list

of the greatest women working, working film?

I couldn't miss the opportunity

to mention the marvelous Marielle Heller.

Yes.

If her filmography consisted only

of her masterpiece,

a beautiful day in the neighborhood,

then that alone would qualify her

for a list of the greatest filmmakers,

male or female working today,

a film which was poorly marketed

as a comfy biopic,

but which is actually an endlessly insightful

rumination on the persistence

of toxic emotions

and a subtle look at gender roles

in the home and the workplace.

You can't be by accident

that the last shot we see of Lloyd

is of him finally picking up

a bit of the childcare responsibilities.

Yeah.

On a personal level,

I've seldom identified

with a character on film

as much as I did with Lloyd,

and the film prompted me to address

some of my own challenges.

While can you ever forgive me

and nightbitch,

don't quite scale those dizzy heights.

They are still insightful

and moving with terrific roles

for both male and female characters.

I patiently awake a

Shawshank-style rediscovery

of a beautiful day in the neighborhood

by the viewing public

so that Heller can be offered

carte blanche

to make more of the wonderful films

she's already given us.

Many thanks, David Hawkins.

I remember talking to her

about that,

and in my mind,

it's all a part of a COVID blur.

But...

COVID blur.

Yeah.

And she was...

We spoke to her,

and she was at home,

and she...

It was just one of those,

I don't know what's going to happen.

I don't know if I'm going to make another film.

That's right.

Who knows?

Will anyone go back to the cinema?

Yeah.

You know, it was one of those.

But it's a fantastic film.

Yeah, no, it really is.

I mean, I was a big fan of nightbitch.

I was a big fan of...

Can you ever forgive me?

But yeah, it's...

I have forgotten that that interview

was during COVID.

It's funny how time kind of contracts like that.

But yeah, yeah.

And the uncertainty of that period.

A sound and fury is the name of the person

who says,

Emma Santi for starters.

Hey.

Love and respect.

Yeah, be nice.

We need...

She needs to have another film soon.

That's what I think.

Well, Steve...

There's...

There's stuff coming.

Excellent.

Stephen Blair, preaching to the converted here,

but Lin Ramsey and Kate Dickie

can do no wrong in my book.

I would also ask Joe Hartley

to the mix of,

if they're in it,

I'm watching it.

Category.

Absolutely.

And the joy of Lin Ramsey is what for you?

Well, look, I have loved

all of Lin Ramsey's features.

I remember the first time I ever interviewed Lin Ramsey

was when Ratcatcher was playing Edinburgh.

And it was just a astonishing film.

And I was a huge fan and I interviewed her

because I was doing quite a lot of stuff

with the film festival at that point.

Her next film, More than Caller,

everyone who saw it

in my circle thought it's going to be

the next train spotting.

The Good Lady Presser, her indoors,

interviewed Lin Ramsey

for a front cover of sight and sound for that film.

And then it vanished without trace.

Then there was this long period

in which she was trying to make lovely bones,

which ended up being made very badly by Peter Jackson.

But then we need to talk about Kevin,

which was actually, I think,

the first time she was on our show.

I was wondering whether she came on for Ratcatcher.

I think we need to talk about Kevin.

And every single film that she has made

right up to die my love

is imbued with this.

She has an aesthetic.

She has an aesthetic that is absolutely cinematic.

She lives and breathes film.

And she makes no compromises.

She makes the films the way she wants to make them.

And she has a vision.

And the film is made to her vision.

And I think she's like the perfect,

the perfect embodiment of that idea

that she's often kind of debunked.

She's not a collaborative film maker.

She absolutely is.

But she makes films the way the film needs to be made.

And she's not interested in compromising

and she had a long period

in which she couldn't get features made

because she was so dedicated to her vision.

I think she's like Kubrick

in terms of being laser-focused

on making the film the way the film needs to be made.

Jayce says,

my two nominations would be Ada Young,

producer of some of the best hammer films

from the late 60s and 70s.

Good, cool.

Hands of the Ripper, for example.

And Anne Coates, the brilliant editor

on Lawrence of Arabia

through the Medusa Touch,

Aaron Brockovich,

and the Golden Compass,

an incredible career.

Our old monk friend, Brother Jim Hayes,

who I'm imagining is a very kind of

carefree and liberal monk.

Yeah, you think?

Yeah, yeah.

He's hanging out.

I don't think he's an austere silent monk.

No, I don't believe so.

Rachel Portman says Brother Jim Hayes.

Yes.

Oscar and Emmy Award-winning film score composer.

Never let me go, Shockler.

Emma's still a live belter name,

but a few.

She also wrote the score

to Ray Finds,

Juliet Benosh,

a count of the Odysseus myth,

the return.

That film was just leapt up some places

on my must-see list as a result.

Someone who appears to be called

Nudnic Headache.

Okay.

I mean, you can help us out a bit

if you've got,

if that's your,

just give us a proper name.

You're not called Nudnic Headache, are you?

Anyway.

Well, maybe they are.

Maybe you've now offended them terribly.

But, you know,

well, I don't know.

I haven't got a clue.

I mean, I'm assuming you're probably right,

but I'm just saying, you know,

never, never make any assumptions.

All right, fair enough.

Anyway, Nudnic says,

Matty Diop is one of the most exciting

filmmakers currently for me.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love to debut film at Landtics.

Yes, fantastic film.

Graham Hall,

Catherine Bigelow,

first woman to in Best Director

at the Academy Awards for Hurt Locker,

and makes near dark,

Hugh Marks,

Good Lady Professor,

Herendoll Story.

Yeah.

Point break,

Strange Days,

Zero Duck 30,

and the recent House of Dynamite.

Yeah.

And,

Pellie Candy says,

Frances McDormand is just an icon of acting.

She is.

Absolutely is.

Are there any names that have been missed out?

Do you think Mark?

Well, can I just say I was really,

really glad that

that brother Jim

brought up a composer

because

that whole thing about,

you know,

composers being,

a lot of the female composers

being largely overlooked by the Academy.

So obviously Rachel Portman

and Dudley,

he'll be good in a daughter.

And how long have the Oscars been going for?

What are we on?

Nineteen,

whatever it is now.

And one of the things that I was trying to do

with my co-author Jenny Nelson,

where I'm right,

surround sound,

was to write

women composers back into the history of film music,

because there is so much extraordinary work.

I mean, even if you go back to something like

BB and Louis Barron doing that incredible

electronic score for Forbidden Planet,

which is just an amazing piece of work.

I mean, it's absolutely amazing.

It's 1956,

totally groundbreaking

electronic score.

So thank you very much

to Jim Hayes for flagging that up.

We were talking recently about

the work of Emily Levine,

this Farouche,

who I just think is a wonderful composer,

Aiko Ishibashi, who's worked

did so much to boost drive my car.

So thank you, Jim,

for getting us on the subject of composers,

because there are so many brilliant women

film composers who are really,

really making big waves in the industry.

The industry is changing,

and that area is changing,

I think faster than some others.

So big thanks to our program partners,

Vanguard,

if you've been putting off sorting out your ISO

or your new to investing,

Vanguard's managed ISO makes it simple.

Life is hectic, Mark,

and figuring out investments can be overwhelming.

But with Vanguard,

you don't have to do it alone.

They'll help you work out your risk appetite.

What's your risk appetite, Mark,

would you say?

Low.

Yeah.

Match you to an investment plan,

and then they'll do the rest.

Just search Vanguard managed ISO

to find out more.

And when investing,

your capital is at risk.

Tax rules apply.

You say the strangest things.