Changing development paths & Philadelphia Flyers junior hockey prospects at Rookie Camp

0:00This is the Lockdown Podcast Network celebrating 10 years of your team every day. Thank you for making Lockdown your first listen every day. For your second listen, go find Lockdown Fantasy Hockey. Steal Rodin and Flip Living Stone provide daily fantasy tips to give you the edge over your leaguemates all while making you a smarter hockey fan. Find Lockdown Fantasy Hockey on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day. What are we looking for from the flyers' prospects who are not going to join the phantoms this season? We're going to get into those other prospects and what the rookie campgles are for them. You're Lockdown Flyers, your daily podcast on the Philadelphia Flyers.

1:03Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hey there and welcome to Lockdown Flyers. I am Rachel Donner. I'm here as always with Russ Cohen and to keep up with our latest episodes and flyers news, you can find us at Lockdown Flyers on Instagram, threads, Blue Sky and Twitter. And rookie camp like we've been talking about is just ahead of us starting at the end of this week. And last Tuesday on our first sort of phantoms Tuesday episode of this season, we talked about the prospects to watch as far as the guys that were pretty sure are going to be phantoms this upcoming season. But what about the guys at rookie camp who are not going to be on phantoms? We've got to talk about them as well. These are guys that are going to go back to junior hockey this upcoming season, some of whom have already started their preseason action with their junior teams.

2:04And I think before we get into some of those players and then what all this means for the phantoms overall and the depth and how the flyers can utilize the phantoms, we do have to talk about like what is the purpose of this rookie camp for non phantoms players in general? We do see, there's some guys that are going to be already flyers and some are borderline at camp and they're battling for roster spots here, but there are guys that aren't battling for roster spots and going back to junior hockey. So we got to figure out like what are we doing here with these guys in general here? And I think that one of the key things that you start off with is you evaluate their progress that they've made over the summer and kind of get a reset on the season, right? Yeah, you're seeing through drills and everything else, what their summer development did, are they fast or are they stronger or those kinds of things, then they'll do some testing, they'll

3:08not tell us the results, they'll do it. Right. And when Ron Hex still took over, and this is just regular rookie camp that first started, I went in there, I was there like an hour before everybody, all the testing stuff was out, I watched, I have a picture still of Sam Oran like jumping up and hitting the high jump and you have those little things that you have pushed down. It's like a little mini combine, right? Yeah, it's like a little mini combine and everybody's going through stuff and I was marking stuff down and said, uh-huh, uh-huh. And I asked somebody, oh, what was the number on that? He goes, I can't tell you. And then the next day, everything was gone. Like, I was literally the only one there and then the next day, all the equipment was on the back. So they'll do it that same way with everything in the back without nosy people like me around. But it's important because they gave them marching orders at the end, you know, during the season, they talked to them, they see them, they go, and then they want to see where they are now. And then that last day where they say day off, it's a day off from the media.

4:10But that's not a day off for them. They're going to, again, speak to everybody and they'll set out, hey, this is what we hope for you this year and we'll keep in touch and this is what we think you should work on and here is we're going to get some videos from, you know, for this and you're going to, you know, and that's what it's going to be. And so it is very important because once they go to that new place, they're sort of in charge of development for the rest of the year. Right. And then you're one shot to kind of get them on the path you want to get them on because like as an example, once somebody goes to London, the hunters are in charge, and they are in charge. Trust me. And they do a good job. I'm not saying they don't, but I'm just saying that's where, you know, where it goes. Right. It is always very interesting like what the junior team goals are versus what the drafting teams goals are and how the teams work together on that front. But it is interesting too because we had dev camp like and a lot of these guys were here for dev camp, right, which is supposed to be in theory more of an instructional learning

5:15environment. It's not about evaluation when it is about evaluation and a lot of ways. But rookie camp is truly about evaluation in terms of, you know, guys battling for spots with the flyers. And then you have these other guys that are kind of battling for future spots with the flyers in rookie camp and how like the flyers use it as this baseline evaluation point heading into this upcoming season for these guys. But also these guys have to leave a very good impression behind so that when it comes to like late season ATOs with the flyers perhaps for somebody or with the fandoms, right? You're looking at, you know, who made a good impression this year so they can kind of stack good impressions on multiple camps that will get them further along maybe next season when they are battling for a roster spot. Yeah, I mean, as an example, and I don't know if they do this, I would have all the guys

6:18wearing tech and I would at least get NHL edge baseline stuff on everybody. Right. Like that's what I do. Do they do that? I don't know. But that's what I would do. I'm just saying some of it and we saw some of that being used at development camp, right? When they were a little bit, a little bit where there was like cameras out on the ice and they had. Yeah, they've had those for years though. Sensor, they've had like sensors on them though too. Yeah, they did have sensors on them. We just don't know what the data points, but they're really looking at. Yeah, we got a little hint of what they were looking at, you know, in terms of speed because they had like a cord attached to them for additional resistance, right? So will they be doing that sort of thing at rookie camp as well, just to see if the numbers change since development camp for some of them, that's for sure. But I think it is like, it's a different environment with the competitive side of things. It is. Again, just because the mix of guys that are battling for roster spots versus the guys that

7:18aren't necessarily battling for spots this year, that just creates like this weird divide. But yet everybody's expected to play in a consistent cohesive manner. And I just find all of that really interesting. Yeah, I mean, some of these guys will play as teammates on the fandoms. A lot of them will play against each other on other teams into your hockey. And so they're used to that, but it is fun. It's kind of like catching up. It's like when we all get to that to that first rookie game in in Lehigh, all the media will sort of catch up and it'll be like, hey, how's it going? How was your summer? And they get that stuff out of the way quick too for hockey players, but it's good. Some of them do stay in touch over the summer. Some of them do training together in the summer, but a lot of them don't. Some of them are in other countries. It's a whole different scenario. Yeah, so as far as setting that good impression for Flyers Brass, when you have these opportunities, what are the most important factors you see that lead to long-term success for a prospect?

8:24I think there's always number one because if you're coming up your summer training, to me, you got to look 20% stronger than you were last year, 10 to 20. That's just baseline. If you did the hard work over the summer, you got to look. Now, I'm not talking about gaining muscle, putting on weight, because some guys have a hard time doing that and it takes years. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about, are you actually physically stronger? Because you know, we've seen it. There's been plenty of skinny guys that are really strong. Even Travis St. I took a while to fill out, right? We used to always kind of talk about how skinny he was for a while. I think you want to see them get out of that skinny phase if you can, but also see how strong they are. Then I also want to see how fast they are, because once you're stronger, a lot of times with the leg strength, it affects your skating in a good way. I want to see where that is. Lower body is a big deal for me. That course time, obviously for goalies, but also for players.

9:27Those measurements are important, because that's what they're going to be checking in with for the duration of the season moving forward. Exactly what kinds of strength programming they should be on in order to get where they need to go coming into the tail end of the season. Like I said, any potential opportunities to come back and train with the flyers toward the tail end of the season, like often they do with the flyers or the phantoms. I think that this rookie camp is going to be super important for a lot of these guys. We're going to get into the specifics on those players coming up next. Learning a business shouldn't feel like you're trying to connect a bunch of systems that were never designed to work together. One app for accounting and another for inventory and other for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odo comes in. Odo is an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together in one powerful platform from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing.

10:31Everything works in one place, helping your team move faster, stay organized, and focus on growing the business instead of managing software. The best organizations know that success isn't just about talent, it's about having everyone working toward the same goal, and it's true in sports just like it is in business. Think about the Christian Duborre extension. It seemed that a pocket at first, but now it seems like a better move. And as part of the longer-term plan for the flyers, Danny Breyer had a vision for this rebuild process, and the results showed out this season. Great organizations win because operations matter, and that's why you should get Odo. Try for free today at odu.com slash locked on. That's odu.com slash locked on. All right, before we get into some of the prospects that are going to be at rookie camp who are going back to junior teams, we want to talk about our final off-season poll question of this summer. And of course, it's the big one that we're all asking, what are your expectations going into the season for the Philadelphia flyers? And your choices are similar to last year, make the playoffs and potentially win around.

11:36Go further than last year, come close, but not make the playoffs or significantly worse than last season. The link to this poll is going to be in the show notes. It's on our YouTube channel. Make sure you vote, and you let us know why you picked what you did in the comments on the poll. Very excited to get to those results on our Friday show and see, you know, what, you know, think about the flyers this upcoming season. Now, looking at the rookie camp roster, there are actually very few prospects that are going back to junior teams at the conclusion of rookie camp. And you know, I think, or presumably at the conclusion of rookie camp, I, you know, I don't think any of them are going to stick around for regular camp, except maybe Selkalovsky would be the potential exception there. We have three forwards in Nathan Quinn, KJ Sauer and Matthew Guard.

12:37And we saw some really good stuff from KJ Sauer and Matthew Guard in development camps and past flyers camps. Yeah. So we'll start with guard, you know, I look at guard and I see third line center. That's what I'm hoping. Third line shutdown center, right? So where he's playing, do I get excited about the offense? Not really. Yeah. For the Seattle. For Seattle. There's going to be a little bit of offense there. I mean, as he's getting bigger and stronger every year, he's going to get bigger offensive numbers than he'll ever get in the AHL or NHL, right? That's just going to happen. That's what happens in junior hockey. You kind of have to adjust to that knowing that, hey, if he has like a 60 point season, he's not all the sudden going to be like a point again guy in the AHL. But in the AHL still would do better than the NHL. That's just every time you level up, that's what happens. But I just look at him and I say, hey, I want to just see where skating's at, his defense

13:38at, his face off the rat. Everything else is gravy. Yeah, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, you need to really have him develop the fundamentals this upcoming season a lot more so that he has that stronger baseline coming into a potential pro career. And then you can kind of specialize from there, but he needs to get all of those baseline skills like up to a certain level. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the thing. Perfect those. Yes, you're going to help your team win. You're going to have game winning goals. All those things are great. But hit the mark on the things that they need them to hit the mark on and everything else is terrific and it's good for him and it's good for development. Yeah, I think so as well. And you know, he's somebody that we're pretty excited about. I'm also very excited about KJ Sauer. I think, you know, he he stood out in camp quite a bit. He has not yet played in the preseason for the oil kings.

14:41So there isn't anything to show on that front yet. On like Matthew Gard has already played a preseason game for Seattle with a goal scored there. They're they're still figuring out their younger prospects, right? So most of the yeah, like the 16 year olds and 17 year olds right now in the junior leagues. But I think that, you know, both of those guys in particular are going to have to show out a little bit at this rookie camp and then build on it over the court of the upcoming season. Yeah, I look at Sauer and I see, you know, fourth line center, right? I see, you know, he's a pretty good skater. It could get better. I liked his net front. I like his battle. He has to play more games. I want to see him play more games. That's the thing about him right. Didn't he have an injury and yeah. And already you're saying like he hasn't played in preseason yet.

15:43And so like that's always like for me, like a little bit of an alarm bell like, okay, I need to see this guy in games because like last year he played 28 games, including playoffs. That's it. Right. I need to see like 60 games at least. So that's my worry for him. Yeah. You know, we have a lot of WHOs on this list. So that's going to be interesting. Like they're all going to be playing. I know. I know. It is just interesting because again, you know, Edmonton Seattle, we have two guys on Seattle, including Sclinica, the gold tender. And then of course, we have got two guys on Everett there. So there are some teammates out there. There's some opposing teams in the WHO. So the WHO is where we should be focusing our attention this season. Yeah, we want to get an extra package for some sort of hockey, do it to the WHO. WHO would be a for sure.

16:45But you know, Nathan Quinn is in the queue. And so again, it's harder to judge that league just because the scoring is so high. But Nathan Quinn seems like a future phantom to me. And so I am still intrigued as to what he can offer. Yeah, he's a tricky offensive guy. I don't know if he'll round that. He's going to be in this game or not. We'll see. Right. And he's that tweener, like he's 5-11. So, you know, making the flyers means he'd have to be really, really ahead of it offensively to do that. And I don't know if he'll be there. But in the queue, he'll put up numbers. Right. Now, as far as the defensemen go up, we had 73 points last year. Right. So as an example, he might get 85 points. Yeah. And like, may not be able to crack an NHL lineup. That's just how that goes. Right. Yeah. And the sense of the defensemen, obviously, the top guy is Maxim Sokolowski, who the flyers just drafted. We saw him at development camp. And, you know, he's already started his preseason with the London Knights.

17:47We talked about that earlier. And I think this is just for him, again, to get that baseline and to kind of show out a little bit and kind of reassert in a more competitive environment than Deb Camp, like that he deserved to be that pick. Yeah. And I default back to when we talked about, when I talked to Jason Buchler, who covers out of London and a lot of other places about him and didn't really talk about his offense. And so I know everybody is going to get excited when they see him make an offensive plays, but I'm not. Not that I don't want to see it. It's just that I don't think he'll ever be in that role in the NHL. And like, we talked about it. There's six seven in that league and you're comfortable in that league now. Who's going to hold you back? Exactly. Like, you know what I mean? So there's going to be offense there. But we'll see where that goes down the line. But I'm not going to get excited if he has 50 points. I'm not going to start talking to him about like he's a different defenseman.

18:49I'm still going to look at what I think he is, which is a top four physical puck moving, shut down guy who can get me some points for sure. And that's where I'm really excited to see him with some of the more seasoned prospects that are going to be there. And really, you know, like him up against Denver Barkey is so funny to watch, but just because of the high difference. But I do think that, you know, some of the like Alex bump and like all those guys who are going to have to prove a lot, they're going to have to go up against this giant. And I'm just, you know, bumps a big enough guy on his own, but still like, I think it's going to be an interesting challenge for on both sides of that fence. But I think Sokolowski in particular, this is his chance to play against more of these top guys to your point of him just towering over the O.H.L. guys and having kind of less of a physical challenge there.

19:49Right. Yeah. You know, it's a shame. There'll be some okay prospects on the Ranger side, but like in that in that game, I would wish that like this were like two years ago and we could see him again. It's ramping. And yeah. Yeah. Or even working with you. Interesting. Yeah. So, you know, there's some other guys that are, you know, okay, but none of them are at pro Perot's level, you know, so that'll be fun to see. Yeah. What he does with those kinds of guys. Right. We also have our two Everett teammates in Brecklisky and Luke Luswick from the last two draft classes there. And man, I am so excited for these guys. We saw that Luswick made the move from Red Deer to Everett during the season last year. And each of them as a recording has played in one preseason game with Everett so far. And Luswick already has a goal. Inhand, there's a big kind of preseason tournament this past weekend, but I think it is mostly

20:52the younger guys playing in it. But, you know, we'll get to talk to them and see how their preseason have been going versus rookie camp here. And I am just really excited about the potential of both these guys. We saw a lot of really good things from Luski in particular at DevCamp and Luswick kind of stood out a lot the previous year. And now has a bigger opportunity with a team like Everett. Yeah. And I think this is great for his development. It was when he got traded. Luswick just a fun guy I like talking to him. I'm not looking like, again, he could score 25 goals this year and I'm not looking for goals at the NHL level. But he's a big defenseman who I think could play third pair if he makes it. And that's the track he's on as a good puck moving to be physical. It can give you a little offense. And then Luski might have this hidden offense. He's the guy that we'll look at for the hidden offense because some of that came out late in the season in the playoffs. And we'll see if there's a carryover for that.

21:52And he takes that because he might be the guy that could take that a few other steps compared to the other two we were talking about because he seems to have a more of a natural tendency for it in his game. And again, he's so good at puck retrievals. That's going to help him get the puck up the ice quick and kind of getting things going offensively. And that's what he can do that. So I'm not putting pressure on him for the offense, but I'm going to be looking for it. Yeah, it's a it is a really interesting season ahead for these guys. And I do appreciate they're going to be on the same team that will be able to kind of evaluate them hand in hand. But we'll see where they end up in the Everett lineup and what kind of ice time each of them get in the season. I think that's going to play a huge factor as well. Coming up next, we are going to talk about the gold tenders that are heading back to Junior Hockey again, both going to the WHO. Plus we're going to talk about the talent pool for the phantoms and how that's going to

22:55kind of affect that team and the flyers organizationally overall coming up next. All right. So we did our rookie camp preview last week when we got the roster release on it. And we saw that our two newly drafted gold tenders were on the list. And they of course are going back to Junior Hockey after camp. Merrick Slenika, like I said, plays for the Seattle Thunderbirds. He's gotten one preseason game. They mostly have been starting and having like the other gold tenders on that team. I looked at all their games. And so he's played in one preseason game. He allowed six goals. But it was interestingly against Everett, but neither of the flyers prospects on Everett played in that game. So he's going to at least get scored on by Flyers prospects in that one. Okay. But you know, it's preseason and you never know what the roster balances in terms of the

23:58skaters that were in front of him and stuff like that. So we're not going to read too much into that in one preseason game in the W. But I think that, you know, again, there is just a good opportunity for some learning at this camp and getting to take shots from, you know, the high end prospects that the flyers have. Yeah. I think with Slenika, like we'll just see, I mean, again, Seattle's a talented team. We'll see if he can carry the load there. Like, I don't think he'll be the top goalie there. I think he'll be the, the second goalie of three. He'll be the second to start. And what I mean by, yeah, carry the load is, can he win that job over? I don't know if he could do that in his first year. Probably not going to happen. And then same thing with with Slavic, with Saskatoon, because we talked about it on Hockey Prospect Radio. I think the best case scenario for him was a split for him. So that's, you know, that's, that's his best case scenario.

24:58So chances are neither of these guys are going to be the guy, but, you know, they'll get good playing time. Right. Which, you know, we talked about the fact that both of them have longer development paths. And we probably won't see them get top goal tender status until next year at the earliest maybe even the season after that. So it is going to be a slower path. But again, this is just another good, really good learning opportunity for these guys. And like that's it as far as guys come in a rookie camp who are like 95% sure they're just going to go straight back to their junior teams at the conclusion of rookie camp. Like we said, with the possible exception of Sokolovsky, they'll keep him around just to give him some experience at main camp, right? Yeah. Oh, no question. I think, I think he'll get some of that until he has to go back. And that's fine. Give him the extra look. You know, he's a he's a top prospect for them. One of their, you know, top five guys. And so yeah, let him, let him enjoy that.

26:00Let's, you know, let him see him in different situations. Let him see what he has to work toward. Right. So when you look at all of this, you know, we've got three forwards, three defensemen, two goalies. Everybody else is either in college or they're already on the pro side of things and they're battling for camp spots. It just kind of makes you think, you know, with a lot of the college players, they're going to come directly and be battling for flyer spots. There's not going to be a ton of them that are going to be automatic phantoms there. And I think that when you look at the numbers here, it just makes me worry a little bit about the phantoms over the next two to three seasons. Understanding they're going to draft more guys, but those guys that they're drafting won't be coming to the phantoms anytime soon. Right. So as far as the solid prospect pool with a lot of skill, I worry about the phantoms having skill like beyond this season when guys like bump, bump, like they're already graduated,

27:03right. And can the got the other prospects move up enough to fill this gap and like get some scoring, get some really good play so that the phantoms have a fighting chance to be a playoff team and get top prospects the experience that they need. It just seems like there could be a problem like two, three years down the line here. Yeah, I think you'll, you know, you'll get burglary and and rule a hone in next year. But guys like Amiko and guys like Mertek and even Vensagi, if the NIL's money is better than the AHL, they may not want to come. And so, you know, that's something that could affect their arrivals and exactly when they'll get there. So I do think there's a bit of an issue and, you know, I think that's where, you know, an Iliopautov, like if he turns out to be like found treasure, that will really help him because he'll have a chance to be, you know, one of their relied upon score.

28:05Yeah, that's what's going to be interesting to me because obviously it's not just the Flyers organization that's going to run into these issues. It's everybody because of the NIL situation and like foreign players, you know, from Europe, from Russia, are they going to be coming over and wanting to go directly to the program or are they going to make a way station in university hockey as well because of that potential advantage. And so you could potentially be losing both of those pools of players for two to three years. And then if those guys aren't like on a path to the NHL, like are they just going to go home at that point versus sticking around and playing in the NHL? Like the NHL is, I think, is ultimately going to suffer from all of this in the long run. Yeah. Yeah, even Jack Nezbit, he might want to hang out at Michigan rather than playing for the fans. I know fans don't want to hear that. But, you know, Michigan's a big time school and he might stay there a little while.

29:07Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, you know, it's a league-wide issue that's going to have to be dealt with. Yeah. But I think for the Flyers organization specifically and the prospects that are in this pool, I do think that the issue becomes like more apparent because of who they are and where they would fall in the pecking order and the depth chart here because some, these guys are not going to want to come until they know they at least have a high end shot at the Flyers. Yeah. No, I agree. I think that's kind of like where it's at and they're going to have to keep buying players, you know, getting players from other teams, signing players just for NHL only. I don't think they have, most teams don't have enough to fuel a whole NHL team, but I do think they may come up a few short where they're going to have the supplement more. Yeah. I know. It's just an interesting factor again. And the rookie camp roster really highlights that based on who's on the list. It's existing Flyers.

30:08It's those slim layer of borderline guys competing for a spot and then it's guys going back to junior and that's it. And so it's a little thin. Right. Like, you know, I heard a lot of fans like, hey, you know, it'll be good to see Berglund on Lehigh and I was like, I don't think he's going to go to Lehigh and he didn't. Correct. Now, I'll come at the end of the year and he'll play a little at the end. And he might play one season in Lehigh, but that's probably all you're going to get Jack Berglund in Lehigh. Yeah. Like, that'll be it. Yep. So, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Yeah. So we're going to be talking about that for sure, especially late season when these guys do make those trips back to Lehigh for ATOs at the end of the season. But an interesting issue affecting the league as a whole and the Flyers organization. That will do it for today's show. Thanks so much for listening. We will be having our mailbag on tomorrow's show. So make sure you get those questions in.

31:08You can email us at Lockdown Flyers at Gmail, send us a message on any of our socials at Lockdown Flyers or put in a comment on our YouTube channel. Thanks for making Lockdown Flyers your first listen today on the video side. We send you over to Lockdown today on audio. Check out Lockdown NHL. I am on the Friday show. I'm Rachel. I'm on Blue Sky in Twitter at Armurium. That's R-M-I-R-I-A-M. I'm Russ Amatt's Sportsology on the same socials as PRDS or LOGY. Have a great day, everyone. Thank you for making Lockdown your first listen every day. For your second listen, go find Lockdown Fantasy Hockey. Steal Rodin and Flip Living Stone provide daily fantasy tips to give you the edge over your leaguemates all while making you a smarter hockey fan.

32:08Find Lockdown Fantasy Hockey on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team, every day.