CHGO Cubs Related: Can Craig Counsell SOLVE the Cubs’ Bullpen Problems Before the Playoffs?

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1:03Good morning, everybody. My name is Cory. I am joined as always by Brendan. We are coming to you on Friday. It is September 4th and Brendan. It's September. Here we go. We're here. There will be playoff baseball at the end of this month. Right now, the Cubs have a very solid standing to be a part of that. I think we wish they weren't playing until October, but such is life. I've been going back and forth in concern and optimism and denial and acceptance. It has been one roller coaster who he could be motion. We have this whole season, man. I mean, yeah, you're right about that. It's just like once you start seeing, okay, September 28th, wild card series, you start to realize it's right around the corner. Yeah, so get ready. So a very interesting series against the brewers. I don't really think slaves out like most of us would have expected some good,

2:04some bad. We'll talk about it all. We've got injury news. We've got pictures rehabbing. We'll talk about all of it. We'll level set the playoff standings and we'll go through the whole deal. Brendan, but where I want to start, I think, given that it's Friday morning, what a pitching performance on Thursday. And a much needed pitching performance. Kevin Gosman. Oh, good. Chicago Cup. Yes, Cosby. And I want to start there because it was, there has almost never been a fresher breath of air than I think the one taken by all of us collectively after that 27th out on Thursday night. The pitching staff, primarily in the bullpen, but we've obviously talked about plenty of issues with the starting staff throughout the season and over the last month or so. But the bullpen has been a mess, a total mess.

3:07You're dealing with injuries, guys coming back and being ineffective. And we'll talk about all that more detail. But boy was a seven strong outing from your starter in Kevin Gosman and two nice, clean, easy innings, just as we all predicted, right? As they were trotting out of the bullpen in the eighth and ninth from Ryan's effigyon and Ryan Rollison, the Ryan's. The, the two headed Ryan monster. Just a desperately needed performance. It does not wash away the taste of some of these bullpen performances over the last few weeks. But just nice to see them. Hey, can you shut down a close, low scoring game? Please, and they did just a nice sigh of relief. The fashion in which they did it. Gosman goes seven innings. You have the effigyon come in and look the best he has had in a quick shutdown. One, two, three innings. And then you have Rollison coming in facing two lefties as he is best against and shut some down.

4:14So, you know, we had, we'll talk about this episode a lot. But over the past week, you and I have gone back and forth. I'm like, oh my gosh, like, are they going to survive these, these bullpen issues? Are they going to survive these injuries? And like, frankly, like, it's been tough because it is hard to see a path forward. If you don't have Palencia and these guys clicking. But when games like that happen, Corey, when you have a starting pitcher, go seven innings. And then to your surprise, my surprise, a guy who has been struggling with hard contact comes in against one of the more, you know, contact heavy teams and shuts them down. It reminds you how fast baseball changes and how fast it can change for certain guys. And we have four weeks, four weeks to figure out who's part of that puzzle. Yeah. And it, it certainly feels uncomfortable at this moment. I think last week when we were having this conversation, I, you know, said, hey, you've got five weeks to figure this out and how you're going to get 27 outs in the playoffs.

5:17Now you have one last week and frankly, Brendan, I feel less comfortable. I feel worse. I said last week that if the season ended now, I would not feel comfortable in the back end of this pitching staff to get through a wild card series, let alone all of October. I feel less comfortable as we sit here on, you know, talking to our lovely listeners on Friday morning here. I needed that game on Thursday, but obviously we're going to need to see more of it. That being said, like that's one of the ways you would envision winning a close playoff game. Like the brewers, obviously, a very good team. And you get seven strong from a guy you traded for to do just that pitch strong, controlled outings go deep into games against the best teams that you're going to throw him against and figure out how you get those last six outs, hopefully in the next few weeks that becomes a little more comfortable. I don't know that it will. But hopefully, and you get a home run from your MVP and you, you put a bow tie, you know, you put

6:24a bow on it and a bow tie, you put a bow on it and that's it. You can wear a bow tie night, but a bow tie on it if you want. On a present, yeah. And that's, that's it. So that's, that's, how you would have to win in the playoffs. You have to be able to shut down games like that. Kevin Gossman gave you a start. You have to win. And it was so needed, Brendan, switching to kind of the rest of the series, like what a bummer the game on Wednesday is. Five runs off of Jacob Mizorowski largely led by Alex Breggman. Fan favorite around here. And the most earned runs he has allowed in a start and you still lost that game by several runs. Talk about like Wednesday was, I don't know, you know, they've, they've, you know, had a seven and 22 stretch. They had a 10 game losing streak. They've had some low points in this season. Kate Horton being, you know, officially done for the year. All these things. There's been some low points. That might have been

7:29about as low as I felt. What still, you know, knowing like, hey, they're, they're going to make the playoffs. It's a context around everything. Yes. But just the way that that had gone, this being, we were not, you know, still hate. We talked last week, like not really focused on the division anymore. But if you were, you know, going one and two in the first three games here at Wrigley Field of these last seven, obviously not a good enough start if you were still interested in, in pursuing that hope. So you have that kind of circling the drain. You hit Mizorowski. And like what a, that was such a frustrating game, Brendan. I have not been that frustrated in quite some time. It's you, you hit Mizorowski. And then your worst fear is the bull pet imploding. And you're thinking, man, I just need one good outing from Palencia. Just give me one to feel better. And he comes out and he looks awful. And then you're thinking off, you're skipping over Peterson looking awful. But yeah, of course, we'll get, we know you have Gossman, you have Combs,

8:31right now, the two guys, again, and then you're thinking, okay, we'll, we'll survive if Web is okay. If Web is the guy he has been, and then he comes out, a liner off the forearm. And then I pass out, I wake up, but I thought I just washed Mark prior break is elbow. So you're, you're thinking like bad, bad thoughts that night with everything going on. And, you know, just such a frustrating game in the sense of, you know, obviously the offense does nothing in that game on Wednesday after the fourth inning. I think they don't have a single hit off of. But they hit the hard. They're here. And the rest of the squad is all that crazy. But just such a frustrating game in that you, you know, you fall behind, you come back, you take the lead, tied, you go ahead again. Now you're digging out of another hole. Here's another hole. And you're just thinking, man, this has to be, we've all played sports, right? Like you're a former superstar baseball player. And why he's right there and anybody talk about that. Oh, my God. Don't don't give me that. And we all know like they got to stay in the fight,

9:36but you go and put up that effort against the best pitcher in the league and are asked to hate. Sorry. Need you to dig out again. Okay. We will. Fine. We'll do it again. Hey, sorry. Not good enough. Need you to do it again. Get's hard. Get's hard. It's a constant emotional pressure. Yes. Well, I mean, Rizzo, Rizzo talked about that on one of his podcast episodes. How it's like, oh, it can be a little demoralizing when you're going out there and you're trying every other inning to ramp up, I guess in the reduction, a sense, like the emotion at some point that does he, he talked to, I can't remember if he said this on the on air or if this was at the Chicago theater live show, but he talked about like you've incredible guys like in that, you know, span like Travis Wood, Trevor K Hill, guys like that, who if they were down five to three in the seventh inning, they'll keep it there because they know the offense can come out of one, they can dig out a one hole, but it gets hard to keep doing it. And so you really need those

10:38glue guys in the bullpen. Shout out our guy Jeff Everson. That's a title of his both if you want to look it up. You need those guys to let the mentality stay where where the offense can keep grinding. And so that was just such a such a frustrating game. And like you said, when Jacob Webtoot that liner off the forum, I thought like I'm I having a bad dream. I mean, I thought that was it. Man, like with all the we're talking about Polencia struggling up until Thursday, you know, Zeffer John struggling everybody struggling Ferguson came back up and immediately gives up homeruns, throwing stuff in the dugout like and you're just thinking, oh man, like this is all it can j how many outings can Jacob Web pitch in the playoffs bang, yell at liner off the forum. You're like, come on man, like I might what is this a bad dream that I'm having right now. This is this is too on the nose. So again, in general, if you were focused on the division, like I would move on from that like short of saw you have seen it's a game situation like it and again,

11:43we sort of said that last week. In general, frustrating parts of this series, but split against a team that has the best record in baseball when you're facing Mizorowski and Henderson is a solid outcome. It's a it's a decent enough outcome. You'd like to win series at home. And the Cubs have not been winning series lately. So it gets frustrating that you're not racking up those series W's two out of three's three out of four's, but for their purposes of maintaining their spot in the playoffs and unfortunately keep trying to keep pace with the Phillies who now own the wild card one and home field advantage by half a game after Thursday's slate of games. It's it's okay. It's okay to split with a team that has the best record in baseball. Nobody else beats them. What happens in those four games, a bigger picture thing. And I think the bigger part of the story, then not taking three or

12:45four or you know, after Thursday, not losing three or four. You know, I was thinking about 2008 a couple days ago and stay with me on the stop. I remember when they were going through their hot stretch. They hit 20 games over 500. And I remember this very vividly. I was like a 14 or okay, 16 or okay. However old I was. And I'm thinking, Oh my God, I've never seen a team a cup team 20 games over 500 in my life. This is insane. I stopped watching the games for the current outcome. And I instead started watching the games as trends in anticipation of what to expect in October. Yeah. And ultimately what ended up happening was what I was concerned about in July and August never came to fruition. Because in October, unfortunately, it was a band-aid ripped off from the Dodgers and Fuku Dome's power was not a concern for me. Like all of those concerns never came

13:46to fruition. And it reminded me because we're talking about, man, if you have plenty of not click in and it's only web or man, if it's just homes and gossmins, okay. You know, when you get to a three game set, crazy stuff happens. This is not optimistic. Don't get me wrong. If I were on the other side, if I were like, let's say, you know, a Dodgers fan right now, you want to get the buy. Let's say you're a brave fan. Let's make it a little bit more palatable. Yeah, I'm like, why? Why? Because they're like 30. Yeah. So if you're a brave fan and you're thinking, Oh, I'm going to get that by and get that by or 30. It's about 500 and you got to go into a three game set. You're probably not excited for your pod race. They're thinking, Okay, I got it. We can see what's going on, right? You're the cubs. You're in the middle of it. But it's really about just perception. Either way, the three game set is nonsense. All you need in this again, not optimism, but like peak hits three home runs. Say it goes on as heater that he went on last October and late September. And just like

14:47the stuff you and I talk about more times than not in October, it never happens because the like baseball and the type of situation changes. Yeah. Playoffs are are a different beast. And yeah, I still think the the mindset for me is the same. I am not really entertaining any thought of them missing the playoffs entirely. I just say what you want. You told me before the show, that like you're just flat. I'm going to say they're not going to miss the playoffs. I do not believe that. Yeah, they're going to make the playoffs. I'm comfortable saying that because again, if it's wrong, like people are going to get fired, man, like none of this matters. Like this is not talking about like you're talking about a different world we're living in. What do you think their playoff odds are right now? I have in the front of me. What do you what do you guys say this percentage was 85 85? You're an idiot. It's 98.5. Okay. Yeah. Well, 98.5. calculate that stuff. I know. But what I'm saying is like confidence is 99. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

15:51what I'm saying is like when you have 99%. Like if they missed a playoffs, you're talking about the worst possible outcome. Not not happening. No. I'm just not it's not something I'm entertaining. So I'm looking at these games as exactly as you said. Like you got to keep winning. You want home field. Like you want to put yourself in the best position you can. You want to be playing well, even though obviously we know like whether you're hot or not doesn't dictate how well you play in the playoffs. But you want to like figure stuff out and they have a lot to figure out in these last few weeks. Health, who's pitching, etc. Attenham. We're going to get into that after our first ad break. But I'm just focused on exactly that. Like keep winning. Don't let anything turn into a slide. Right? Like don't let this spiral out of control because you haven't been winning series here. So don't let it get too out of control. But I like tunnel vision. How does every individual player work? How is everybody's health? And like what is the most important thing? Together for these actual playoff games. That is where my focus is. That is where my

16:54priority is. So we're going to talk about it. We'll talk about how we're feeling about everything, the confidence, all of that, everything when we come back from this first ad break here. Imagine Wi-Fi that makes everything in your home work together. The fines and fixes problems before you even notice them. Like super intelligent Wi-Fi with a sixth sense. And then that lets you stream the game even when the whole family is online all at one time. All your devices working in perfect harmony for five whole years. Here's the best part. No annual contracts, no hidden fees and Xfinity's best equipment is always included. Take it from me. A lock and chain, Jin five years championship, Sarwan records, our broken dreams grow bigger. But your Wi-Fi it should stay reliable and the price should stay put. Lock in your price today. Unlock the possibilities with Xfinity, get ready for the upcoming Chicago sports fall season. Learn more at Xfinity.com Xfinity. Imagine

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18:59Matrix basements and CHGO $80,000 one basement one winner. So if you've ever furnished a restaurant hotel or an office, you know the drill five vendors, five invoices, five delivery windows, but there's a better way to do this. Creighton Barrel Contract is a business to business program that covers three brands. Creighton Barrel, CB2, and Creighton Kids with one account, one order, one delivery. They've got durable plates and glasses, contract grade furniture, and lighting that looks custom, that's built for the wear of busy space actually takes. And the best part is you're not doing it alone. A dedicated rep handles your project end to end, from volume orders to design curation. Plus members get 20% off, tax exempt checkout, and flexible payment with no minimums. Learn more at Creightonbarrel.com slash podcast. That's Creightonbarrel.com slash podcast. All right, Brendan. Back with you. Let's just dive into the pitching staff. We have plenty to talk about here, but I think, you know, we're we're talking about it. Like that's the exercise. Like

20:03few weeks left, you're looking at playing somebody in the playoffs, probably the Phillies, but they have seven games with the Braves. Like so that will possibly determine that division, and he's playing there, you know, San Diego, Arizona in the mix, Miami, flirting around who the cuff play on Friday, but they're, you know, three games back. So a harder road for them. How do we feel about the pitching staff? I think we'll just do a weekly check-in here. So for me, I think you see, you know, at this point, I would be drawing up the contract for Clay Homes to prevent him from leaving and prevent him from talking to any other teams. Like you're pitching, you're pitching thing is all in flux. Guys are leaving, you know, Ben Brown on Thursday, done for the year. No setbacks, but they just don't see the time. I mean, that was a conclusion once he went down. Yeah, they just don't see the runway there to get him back and healthy. And, you know, unfortunately, like they need to figure out how to prevent that

21:07from happening, because it doesn't seem like, you know, anyone has a clear idea of what is causing that and how to prevent that next to you. Feel terrible for him, by the way. That's fair. Struggles to start his M.O.B. career up and down, different roles, finally fine success in multiple roles, and, you know, now dealing with this nagging injury. So a shout out to Ben Brown, that's a real bummer for the team, but more importantly, the person. I feel great about Clay Homes. Kevin Gossman, this is a couple starts now. He's obviously had, you know, it's been a little bit of a mixed bag, but I feel comfortable when he's on the mount. And he's delivered now to seven innings, strong starts, one no runs, one this one run on Thursday against the Brewers against really competitive teams, one on the road, one at Riggly against the Brewers feeling good about Kevin Gossman and who you brought over and giving him the ball in a big game. Peterson has large, you've been very good. Obviously struggles in this Brewer series.

22:08I don't, you know, like I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, the humidity and all that, but like, you know, it was one of those starts where like you watch him and it felt that way a little bit from Mizorowski too, but for Peterson, you're like, he just doesn't have the feel for this stuff like the breaking ball is is landing high. Like stuff is just leaking a little bit like he he just does not have the feel that he normally does to generate that significant contact on the ground. Shota like has a start Miami probably to like keep his job at this point. Like that's sort of how that feels after that start on Sunday against the Reds, which it can'tedly run in might have been the angriest I've been in quite I think it was. You probably haven't gotten texts like that for me in a while. Then hitting burns and it was continuing to give up home runs to the eight, you know, the eight or the nine hitter. I was not in a good mood on Sunday night. So my leash with Shota at the moment is about as short as it can get. Boyed looking better. So I think in general,

23:17like I feel like you know, you made the trades at the deadline to bring in guys to set up a potential playoff rotation. I feel like that's what you're looking at. I feel like you feel confident in homes and Gossman. Boyd is looking better like for me right now, like you have your guys who you're going into a series with and you're going to trust with the ball. Everything after that, if you need a fourth starter, fifth starter and how you're dealing with the bullpen, separate issue. But how do you feel about this rotation specifically the top part? I feel good about homes. I feel good ish about Gossman. I am in a wait and see pattern with Boyd and I am extremely concerned with Shota. And if he can't pitch, then Peterson by default, you are kind of taking a risk with the heavy contact profile. How do I feel about the pitchy staff in general? I feel that the starters will

24:18get how do I feel about the starters in general? I feel not the best. I'll be honest, not the best. Like like you, you look at homes and you're thinking formula works. You see the ground balls, the veteran presence, the savviness, homes, by the way, throwing a slider that's more reminiscent of what he threw with the mats and he's getting more whips as a result. So no more cutters. He's throwing a slider variation that he had somewhat thrown in New York. Pay attention to that. That's interesting as you get more whiffs. Gossman, here's where I'm at with Kevin, right? 12 years we talked about him. Kevin. Yeah. He wanted him for so long. I'm going with Kevin. We're going with Kevin. He threw 93 to 96 tonight. Yeah. The velocity was higher tonight than it was a previous start. That's trending within that range. Don't get me wrong. But when it's that good, like Shota, it allows him to play up the splitter. So if Kevin goes out and has another clunker before

25:24October, that will not feel good. But he is a 35 year old vet who can turn it on in different context. So can he do enough from now until October to like inspire absolute confidence? For me, Corey, absolute confidence is what we saw from like, you know, Jay Gerrietta from like John Lester's best days. Do I have that with any of these guys? No, I think I think it's pretty obvious that if they go seven innings, you and I are like, oh, we got seven innings, right? In the past, when you got seven innings from those other guys, you're like, yeah, that sounds about right. You don't have that with this group. And that is an underlying discomfort. Yeah, they they talked about it on what probably the episode with Jake, but I don't really remember. And I remember it was probably Ross saying like it's win day, right? When Jake is on the map, like we're winning today. Yeah, like, right. We're winning. Like that's it. You don't really have that right now. I feel

26:25very good about clay homes, but there's a difference between a starter who you feel like is in command of the plan and in command of the strategy and like what you're trying to accomplish and able to execute that versus having those guys where it's just like they're not hitting him, you know, 100 percent. Like we're unlikely to end up with that now. We were all nervous, but like even like when they go to Pittsburgh for that wild card game, like you're nervous. It's a one game playoff, like you never know, Pittsburgh, very good team. You're still in the back of your mind going, world area is pitching though. So like they're they're they're just going to win, right? Like they're not going to hit him. So that's what that's what I felt like. Yeah. So when we talk about confidence, like that, that is that is what I go to. Sure. Now can it work, right? So the conversation specifically is, is there a path forward with Gossman and with homes as your two workhorses? Yeah. Absolutely. We didn't have that last 2025, October run. Right? We had Ty Yone give you some

27:28good start. So you had boy, have one good one bad. You had a ray of Shoda, just any bench for game five. So we didn't have that. So I obviously feel better about the rotation, but the question remains is can the offense, which is clearly the best offense in the league. Now that P crew Armstrong is this MVP guy and Brugamaine is the guy who you and I thought he was clearly the best offense in the league. Can that supplement and actually overcome the limitations of not just the starters, but also the bullpen? Yeah. So yeah, I agree. I I feel yes. In a in a different place in last year, going into the playoffs last year, there was so much of a focus on like, man, like can you trust these guys in the playoffs? They're kind of look like they're running out of gas. Like you didn't feel like you had the Matthew Boyd that you did at the beginning of the year that you felt that level of confidence in same as Shoda. This year, you do have at least two guys that I feel confident

28:33in giving the ball to in playoff games. I feel confident in their ability to go out there and give this team a chance to win in the playoffs. I agree. I feel confident that if they go out, in my expectation is six innings of one to run ball. Like I feel confident that they can meet that that expectation, right? Yeah. Ideally, ideally, I want one of those Christopher Sanchez's. I want potential complete game guy, right? Like we don't have that. And my fear is that even with you know, having Kevin or having Clay go six innings, is that bridge? Is that six seventh eighth inning bridge that frankly is being patched up right now and may not even be patched up. So that's where the thought goes. But one one point because I will forget about this. Like game five of the NLDS last year. Call and write, right? Comes in after Palmer as was the opener, I believe, for game five. I'm like losing my mind. I try not to think about that. No, no, I mean,

29:35there are that sounds correct. So Shoda doesn't pitch game five for it. You have Ray come in. He goes, he sees the order more than once. They lost that game by only serving up three runs. Now, I'm gonna say, oh, well, that's evidence. Everything's going to be okay. To me, it's a representation of how unpredictable baseball can be in that type of context. And also how your worst fear, my worst fear right now is the pitching. Sometimes ultimately, that's just it doesn't transpire like that. And there is a path forward with the current group to actually accomplish what they did last year in that fashion. So we're going to end up continuing this topic after our second hand break here. But you know, the what it made me think of because I was going to switch to Matthew Boyd. I do want to talk about Boyd specifically more or come back. Yeah. So just introducing it like he five and a third seven hits three runs, one walk, three strikeouts, solid game against, you know, a tough offense. Obviously, a team that puts the ball in play a ton.

30:39It was an interesting series because I think you see two examples in this series with Boyd and Peterson where it's very difficult to evaluate not just their performance, but the game as a whole because that's not how they're going to be managed in October, right? There was a lot of conversation like should Boyd have gone out for that next inning. Now granted, he got two sort of routine ground balls. The cubs were just positioned differently for them, which of course Brendan, as we talked about, the brewers hit ground balls where you feel like, oh man, Pedro's, position up the middle and they hit that right to the normal spot. And I asked you before, I'm like, have you ever felt that at all this year with the cubs like, oh, they're out of, you know, they didn't have the positioning right? Like, no, like, oh, weird. So only these brewers ground balls, you're like, oh, okay, I thought that would be an out, but they're not there. All right. Anyway, I digress. Like the decision sort of worked, would

31:39Craig do that in October, though? Same with David Peterson. Clear, he did not have it, but I've been talking to people the last two days, right? And I understand I don't think there's a right answer. My point is in the regular season right now, the game with Peterson, if we're having a conversation, Brendan, saying Craig should have gone to this bullpen for six innings instead of five or five and a third care at that point. It doesn't matter. It's not that it doesn't fault at that point. Like it's there's no, there's no, you want to give up, do you want to give up six runs and six innings or six runs of five? What's the right lever? You take your poll. You're not giving him a correct answer. It's like, go down the slide. They give you the doors to open. There's no prize behind any of them. Like, pick whichever one you want. It doesn't matter. So, but I, I highlight that and then we'll hit our second ad break to illustrate like, you know, you don't have an off day until next Thursday. So, I understand people might have been frustrated about some of those decisions or just second guessing them, but this is still the regular season. These games are all critical and

32:44they feel that way. But at the end of the day, both of those situations probably handled very differently. If this is a playoff game, now the question though becomes Brendan, if you're feeling like you want Matthew Boyd to come out of the game, if you're feeling like David Peterson needs to come out of the game because he doesn't have it, do you have the answer for who is coming into the game? We're going to finish on this starting pictures and then obviously the second half of the show, we will try to figure out that answer. This, this foil right now is no, but, you know, maybe, let's hit our second ad break here. We'll do that. Dear Friday, Toyota says let's put good times in gear with the Toyota Tundra, Toyota Tacoma, and Toyota Foreburner. Whether you're low enough for a Cubs game, add an offer a weekend road trip, telling the boat to the lake or just getting out of town after a long week Toyota trucks are built to make every Friday feel like the start of an adventure. In Toyota, pack these vehicles with available features that make life easier, available power tailgates help you load coolers gear and groceries with ease while the available trailer

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34:49your needs with steady knowledgeable guidance that brings clarity and confidence each step of the way. It's a partnership designed to help you feel supported, not just today, but well into the future. So whether you're celebrating a big win rebuilding after a tough loss or gearing up for whatever comes next, we've got your back with the tools insights and expert crew that's always in your corner. Old national bank member FDIC where relationships and results matter. All right, Brennan, back with you. You wanted to talk about one math you boied. So what do you got? So I'm looking at the fastball shape. To me, that is going to be a barometer of my confidence level with Boyd. In the start before his last, we had talked about how his fastball shape looked the best it had in the previous seven weeks. So my thinking was a trend upwards, a trend toward confidence.

35:50In his most recent start, he didn't get shelved. He commanded. I thought very well. He was competitive. If that I thought his command was among the best starts command wise of the last two months. One of the best starts, but the fastball shape is still not where he was at his best. And so I'm thinking of how do I balance a pitcher who is not throwing his best off, but is throwing his stuff where he wants it. And where I come to rest my thought on this is, well, as a three starter in a playoff situation with this defense, I guess I'm going to take my chances there, right? If the fastball is looking better, my confidence will increase, but I'm going to sacrifice a little bit of that opinion. If he continues to locate like he did last start, he competed. It was hot out. It was bad weather in Chicago. It looks awful out there right now. And he gave the Cubs a chance

36:51to win even when they didn't put their best defense on the field. So I'm not particularly optimistic about boy as I want to be, but I still remain cautiously encouraged because he's competing and throwing quality stuff located well, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think I feel okay enough right now. To, you know, obviously give him the ball in a game three and, you know, you're going to have to be kind of ready and waiting. You kind of have no choice either. Like I think that's kind of where my head says like, well, you have no choice. So by default, this is the acceptance I was talking about the start of the show. I've accepted this. Like I would love to have a third starter, like no nonsense, nine cable and with guy, but you don't have that right now. I, you know, and look, I mean, honestly, I feel like not all that dissimilar to David Peterson, honestly, like I feel pretty comfortable giving him the ball. It just with with, with Gossmann and Holmes, the hope is going to be

37:56we're giving you the ball like our plan is for you to keep it like and for six to seven innings maybe that's the best case plan. Of course, you're ready for anything else, but at that point, you're like, all right, like this is obviously this is trouble. This is certainly trouble if we have to adjust this. Boyd Peterson, I would be more on the vein of like I'm comfortable with it. Like the results can be there. You on those days, you're much more the plan is not six innings. The plan is like we have guys ready and like the second anything looks weird. You're out. You got to be aggressive and go 100 now. The trick is do you have the people to execute that plan? Because Craig sort of tries this the other night. Multiple times, but specifically in the Matthew Boyd start, right? You have those two stupid ground balls that start the innings. So the brewers end up with guys on second and third. So stuck on your mind. You said that so many times about. Yeah,

39:00because Shaw has to range to his left to get that bleeder to the right side and ends up kicking it away. So they have second and third. Nobody out to start the inning. Really no fault that Matthew Boyd got the ground balls he was looking for. Although again, you know, danger of contact. So that was my point. So like in Greg House, Craig counsel did say that in his post game professor. He said a paraphrase. We played good defense, but to beat the best team, you need to play great defense. And that's exactly the risk you're talking about. Dan's be swinging. He's taking drills. Craig was hoping maybe another two weeks or so. That's what he said on marketing. This is a pregame. Here's my request. Oh, here's my request. Dan's we just a psycho in the best way. Just just take it easy, man. And take it easy. Don't push it. So speaks to the defense, but so hopefully that's coming back. He goes to Palencia in that spot. And in general, Brendan, in a vacuum,

40:06everybody being at their optimal self, that is how he managed playoff games. That's how we want him to manage playoff games. You have, were they winning at that time? I'm playing all these games are bleeding. Yeah, unfortunately, they were. Yes. Okay, right. And then it's, but yeah, I got it. They, you're trying to hold the lead or at the very least, like, keep it tied, keep it close, limit the damage you bring in the fireman. The problem is you don't have the fireman, right? I guess the fireman is Jacob Webb. He's also the closer, you know, and now he has a big wealth on his pitching arm. But in general, the thought process makes sense. Palencia is just not there right now. The rust is very much still there. The stuff does not look particularly good right now. And, you know, even Craig kind of talking like a little bit of a mental kind of hurdle to get over

41:07here. Like, you know, you're coming back from the injury, you want to feel confident in that stuff. And you can see it in his face, right? We're not looking at Gasolina, like the Daniel Palencia that's charged up, like the confidence that you saw for him in the playoffs last year, that energy that, you know, just like adrenaline pumping through him for Venezuela and the world baseball classic. Go watch when they cut the camera to him in these Brewers games. Like, that's not that it's not, it's not there. Now understandable coming back from injury, put into some tough spots. The reason I bring that up though, Brendan, is that's how you want to manage a playoff game. You bring in a flame throwing guy who you hope can get whiffs and put out the fire. Second and third, nobody out. Maybe you get out of that only giving up a sack fly and the one run comes in or strikes out a couple gets out of the inning. And you've escaped this jam you walk the high wire, but you get out of it with no damage. Right now though, you just don't feel

42:12like the Cubs have those guys. And for Palencia, he is not there right now. And I will tell you, Brendan, I am particularly concerned about that. Palencia, when he came back in his two outings, prior to the last one, I thought, okay, these are like encouraging signs for someone coming back from the injured list with an elbow injury. The encouragement specifically was velocity 99, 100 miles per hour. I said, okay, I'll take it. First two outings back, sign me up for it. Now with three outings now in about what nine, 10 days, whatever it is now, the fastball shape is not where was at his best, but fastball shape. I mean, for Daniel, specifically, what makes him unique is he has a low release because he's short. He has a fastball that hails a lot and rides a lot at a 102 miles per hour. So he has this unique angle of tails or rides. Right now, it doesn't

43:17tail as much. Right now, the velocity at 97 in the outings, not going to work. And the slider, specifically that he throws, it's a tight slider. That tie slider right now, it's not tight enough, it's not dropping as much as it did by about a couple inches. So it's no longer like, okay, he's looking good in his first two outings because the velocity is there. Now it's like, okay, it's almost been two weeks and his fastball shape looks bad. And the slider is not where it was at his best. What is the likelihood he can return to his best form? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know what the magnitude difference between three inches of vertical break for his fastball or rather for a slider and his horse, I don't know what the likelihood of that changing is for him specifically. I'm monitoring it. And if that doesn't happen, then I'm praying that he can get back to 100 miles per hour, even if that fastball was not moving like the way it does. That being said, am I panicking now? I can't right now. Am I encouraged now? No, I'm not encouraged. But with Daniel, I remind myself,

44:22this time last year, he had he was in Los Angeles dealing with an injury or he injured a shoulder on his way that whatever was he injured a shoulder last time this year and came back and he ramped up really fast for guys like him. You don't know the context that allows him to just lock it back in that finds that feel. So for me, there is enough time left to feel that. And if there's not, if we don't see that, I am not going to be surprised at when the moment is called in October, he does deliver because those guys, they just tend to be a little bit more psycho. Yeah, it's just so important. It's like we've talked about, you know, and hey, like shout out to Justin Steele pitching for Iowa, like what a effort to come back, right? And we'll see what they're able to make of it. But you know, there's still a decent way to, you know, he's got to have a full proper rehab here, but shout out to him for putting the effort in and getting back out there.

45:23That was not an easy timeline with the setback that he suffered. You know, we talked about Shelby Miller. We talked about Ben Brown, like those were all like kind of like, let's see different situations for each of them. Let's see. You can't count on it. It'd be fun. Some of the stories be unbelievable, but like let's kind of see what happens. I was counting on plenty. I was counting on him to come back. Maybe not immediately just be that guy. You got to give a guy, you know, a chance to get his footing coming back from an injury. But I certainly was not like mentally prepared for like, oh shoot, like we can't like trust him at all right now. And there's so much. He's gone. Sure. No, no, that's what I mean. That's what I'm saying is that he is so important to this, not just because he was, you know, sometimes are closer. Your big fireman, high leverage guy last year, but you're looking at the options and saying, okay, like who could fill these roles? There's just not a lot of guys that can fill that specific role.

46:28Some of these guys can improve and be trustworthy to pitch in the playoffs, depending on the situation. Right. You were just talking about it. Like Colin Rae is pitching in playoff games. You know, Travis Wood was an excellent for the Cubs in 2016. Like sometimes guys are getting these opportunities that maybe when you're going into the playoffs, you're not expecting them to get so many innings. But in terms of like who can shut games down? Who can come in and do the a roll this Chapman in game one of the 2016 NLCS and get out of the bases loaded jam with only one run allowed, right? Because he strikes out the first two hitters. Who can do this? There's just not that many options in this group for like who that fireman can be. And so you you really need like annual looking rough combined with Jacob Webb taking a liner off the forearm is about that's about his bad like an hour span we could possibly have when you're like thinking of how to execute

47:30in the playoffs. But yes, there is time. Hopefully Jacob's forearm the swelling goes down. Craig said hopefully a couple days. And if they have to use the aisle, they will. But it seems like they they got the best case scenario there. You just hope he doesn't have any lingering effects for it. And they're going to give every annual every opportunity to get right over these next few weeks. And with that, you know, you all need to get comfortable with him coming into games that maybe at the moment, you're like, uh-oh, like what are they thinking? They're thinking if he messes up this game against the Marlins in September, whatever we need him not to do it in Philadelphia. It was hope you would. Right. So that's that's that's going to be part of it. We'll come back, we'll keep talking pitching. We'll talk about PCA and Alex Breggman a little bit and we'll finish up this episode after our last category. Summer is finally winding down and so are the prices. It's four seasons end of summer savings event trading your old energy

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49:34too. In fact during a March in Arizona for spring training with shady rays you know what's funny I got a brand new pair from shady rays themselves I lost the same day. Lick-truly lost at the restaurant the same day. I got a brand new pair guess what right there right then. But then I know shady rays will always change the game for me because I will lose my sunglasses again and again and they will be there for me. They are seriously good looking polarized durable and not stupidly expensive. So if you break them lose them even on day one shady rays will send you a brand new pair no guilt trip just replacements I wear my sunglasses every single day without fear go to shady rays.com use code CHG for 50% off two plus pairs of polarized sun glasses CHG 50 for 50% off. All right Brennan finishing off here. I think you know with the rest of the bullpen guys like I feel I do feel confident Ryan Rolls' sensibility to be in these. He becomes very good against lefty.

50:38Yeah well it becomes a matter of like can you go in with a lefty dominant part of the line up because like the splits are drastic. Yeah so I mean I feel confident in him in being a lefty specialist guy you know I think on Thursday he gets the save going left right left but you know yeah like still. But it is uncomfortable like when you face sharpties I mean I should know this number off my head but I think like his weight on base average against varieties is like near 400 and against lefties is like one like 200. Yeah it's like insane how much of a verse of a split. Well so I mean you know I suppose we can hope that Don Manningley sets things up you know Kyle Bryce never know he can just pitch to those guys and yeah put the lefties in order and and make it easy for us. I feel confident in that you know you're again you're going to keep trying Zephyr John looked really nice in the game on Thursday to finish that game he's obviously

51:39had some not good outings where he's not getting whiffs he's not able to locate he's getting hit hard hopefully Thursday is a little bit of a turning point for him and again going back to conversations we've had about him previously like at a minimum just hoping he can get to a place where he's not that Daniel Polencia level fireman that we've seen in the past but that he can be a kind of Hail Mary listen we need some whiffs and some strikeouts man like we we we got to call somebody or again like just someone you trust at all in not the tightest of games right like you're going to need guys to cover innings over the course of playoffs and you know the rest of September so just getting to a place where like you he can be in that circle of trust so to speak which he really has not been for most of his time in Chicago thus far beyond that like you know I think we've seen Colin Ray do well in roles that he's been in Aaron Savali's been really good

52:41for this team he's changed some stuff since coming over to the Cubs so like he's a guy like I don't know that I don't know how I feel about him like coming into the eighth inning of a one game he's been good for them and I think you can definitely utilize that and especially as we're talking about you know if one of the starters is struggling early you're ready to kind of pull the cord like I would think that Savali and Avi Asad when he comes back are going to be your first two looks if you need to get some bulk innings depending on the score of course and like the situation in the game so feel good about that you know and like this is where things condense in the playoffs Brennan like you don't need to use your entire pitching staff ideally you're not unless you find yourself in games that you're up 10 to nothing which would be great sign me up for that but really unless I if I'm forgetting anyone you know remind me but really nobody else do I have I don't think a particular level of confidence in like I don't want to see Trent Thornton pitching

53:45in close playoff games I don't want to see Tyler Ferguson pitching in close playoff games you know feel bar at this point I I would not trust at all to come in like Roland Rousen should be your big time lefty guy if the score dictates sure you know you can have other guys come in but in terms of like who is pitching in a close battle of a playoff game that list gets much much shorter and there's a few guys that even we just talked about like they start to earn that spot on that list so how they go about it again like I don't know what they would do with Shoda if they're not going to start him how he fares over these last few starts is certainly going to help that David Peterson we've already seen in a you know come in as a lefty but maybe we let you go for a second or third inning kind of things we sort of already have an idea that they're like comfortable doing that he's comfortable doing that Shoda I have no clue I don't know if they would try that out of the bullpen and I know how it look out of the bullpen I know you know you and I have talked about that

54:46that's like my overall state of the pitching so right now feel good about your top two starters I feel fine with Matthew Boyd in a game three with a close eye on everything and you have a few weeks here to get some of these bullpen guys to show you something because right now the confidence in that is not very good especially not being positive at where Jacob Webb is after this thing yeah you know a month ago after the trade deadline we were talking about how we felt confident because there were so many options available that could work out this is a month ago discussion you and I had because we're thinking okay Edward Cabrera for all of his faults he's right around the corner that provides rehabbing too I forgot about it right at the time in you know and the July we're thinking he provides another option of just getting Indians Indians are good for crack counsel now options have been removed and Brownins down for the year and were Cabrera is no longer starting he's now rehabbing as a reliever we'll see how that looks like

55:50Zeffra John's development as a cub has gone unexpectedly or rather um uh disappointingly slower than we had hoped uh Jacob Webb despite the injury had two rough outings before that Daniel Polensia's going slower both fastball velocity and ramp up the new and I had hoped for so a lot of the options we were comfortable being potentially available not saying they were absolutely going to be available at that time but right now it seems less likely they can be an option and that's where the discomfort lies now that being said where it could go well is I can see and I'm not vouching for us or I want to be clear but when you start getting a little desperate for pitching and innings you start naturally asking the question who has the nastiest stuff available and I can't shake the thoughts of Edward Cabrera coming out of the bullpen I'm not vouching for this I want to be sure about

56:52okay um I can't shake the thought of what a 101 mile per hour sinking fastball looks like out of a max effort wanted to any stint from them I can't shake that thought with that turbo change up I know the curveball has issues the curveball still within rehab does not look good curveballs not coming back this year guys is over for the curveball I think unless something crazy happens but you can see okay you're a righty dominant lineup let's just hammer sinkers 101 sinkers at your head let's leave a lefty dominant lineup you're getting turbo change ups turbo turbo turbo turbo turbo and that could be a bridge I would love for that to be available for crack counsel I am hoping desperately hoping that Cabrera could find that role for himself and my confident in it of course not the injuries the blisters the unfamiliarity but it is nevertheless being explored right now and you have to at least keep yourself open to that possibility you have to try everything I mean you have

57:55to try everything and you have to be open to stuff working and you know it's it's a bigger conversation right like the finding yourself in this position two years in a row different than how you felt last year but you know you're still sitting here hurtling toward the playoffs with like just question marks about your pitching skills so there's going to be bigger conversations about that I think this offseason we see them move go ahead sorry era but like even dating back to those playoffs runs with with jail madden it's the positional group but like cow sure we're starting right field hobby bias becoming your everyday second baseman like for the next foreseeable few years in the infield like those were moves made at the onset of the playoffs yeah right like that was not in the picture going into the start of September so I bring this up in that I I genuinely believe that pictures and players and these human beings in certain context

59:02with the highest of high emotional states extreme environments sometimes even if you don't see it you put those guys in those environments it changes it changes how you think sure it locks certain things in and I was I wouldn't be surprised if we're talking about something similar with like Cabrera or Polencia or Shota like I honestly would not be surprised because that's naturally how I think about that yeah no I I agree with you on that and that's why again you got to try everything like you're searching for answers right I'm just saying like you know there will be a time when you're in the middle of a playoff race like it's not really that we don't need to do an organizational audit at the moment I think we can wait on that I do think though like you know an offseason discussion right like you are staring at finishing several games behind the brewers again you are asking yourself questions about your pitching staff and who's going to be available and who can you get right and things like that I think I texted you but you know certainly

1:00:03stood out to me in the game on Wednesday that the brewers throw three guys that they drafted or signed as amateurs like initially gubs have zero on their pitching staff like the first back you're going to get as well they're all injured right tades sure yeah no and when I like you know have put that out anywhere it's like yeah of course there's there's nuance there and stuff like that but it does just sort of like stick out to you right as you're asking these questions about how to execute in the playoffs but right now when you're in the middle of it it's try everything throwing everything at the wall see what sticks the goal is to win games and get 27 outs will figure out the you know the bigger picture stuff another time yeah I think you do have to ask questions this going to be an offseason discussion yeah I do think you to ask yourself questions like hey why was Edward Cabrera bad this year and what is Zephyr Jean takes so long hopefully ultimately to get right like that can't happen you can't afford that length of time and getting stuff wrong yeah when

1:01:04you're making these these moves so we're going to finish few quick thoughts and over time if you're on fast channels head over to youtube and then we will finish all right Brendan just finishing up so yeah that's the say to things I mean it's an uncomfortable spot to be in right now but you do have a few weeks to try to figure it out and again like I said part of that you know extended offseason conversation will be like of course I came into the year wanting them to win the division friend and the fact that we're talking about a wild card series and not winning the division and you know looking up what eight games at the brewer like clear that's how you got here and you know some luck some whatever like but it is it is frustrating but ultimately like the goal you're going to be in the playoffs you've got to figure out how to make it work because this season is an opportunity and just because it didn't go the way that we wanted exactly doesn't mean that the

1:02:09opportunity is lost just a little harder right I will say it you know like they they found a solution in Ben Brown so I give them a lot of credit for that yeah yeah yeah we'll frustrated as we sit here like we spent basically the entire offseason saying I'm a little worried about the pitching staff like you know anybody in the rotation that particularly you know what you know it's funny about this it's like I vividly remember you and I talking about the projections in December and I told you like Corey they got a top three positional unit top three they're pitching bottom three yeah I still want breakfast now I'm like okay okay but the pitching and like this is literally like Fangerus has them at the almost do it yeah just how it goes you know yeah just how it goes so the goal here though like I said there's time to relitigate all of this there's time to you know for people to take their victory laps on you know wanting Dylan C's or you know all this other stuff right but that's the state of the pitching we're going to keep monitoring it so I think every

1:03:12week when we do these episodes and I know Luke Joey and Justin have you on on the daily and they'll do it as well like we're just going to keep checking in like checking in on the progress especially on guys like Daniel Palencia's Effor John Webb coming back from this injury Dan's B like key players like each little thing that you can get to go in the right direction makes you feel a lot better and it also as we always talk about it has a trickle down effect friend and like you can get Palencia to that point where you do get that confidence back it it has a trickle down effect to Jacob Webb and all these other guys who then can get pushed down a little lower in the pecking order but where I do want to finish it's sort of a constant you know that maybe I'll just be on a victory lap for the next five years of course I do want to talk just finish on how good Alex Breggman is how good he looks obviously an excellent August he you know is excellent the the thing too like we said it in that white socks game when he gets the you know the the big hit off of homes or not

1:04:14homes grand Taylor their best reliever then also wins that one in extras like games like against Mizorowski like that's the stuff you you bring Alex Breggman who do we trust to stand in there against the the number one pitcher in the league pumping gas like throwing all these crazy pitches and give you a good played appearance and you know it's not only good played appearance he's taken him deep he's ripping doubles it's like this this is just what you brought him in he's a professional hitter that's what you brought him in to do the other team throws their best and he's the guy that doesn't back down he's going into that box ready to do it and that's who you want up in those situations uh but the one thing that really stood out to me Brennan is we we talked so much in the offseason about like immediately he's on the phone with PCA he's telling him hey you got to you know you've got to take more walks you got to do this you got to do that he's in the players tribute article talking about how Pete is face timing his his son Knox and they're like buddies he

1:05:17like takes the phone and Alex is just you know in the other room like now it's it's Pete and Knox's conversation all this stuff they're working together the effect that they could have um and so I tweeted this out but uh this was from the players tribute article I think or one of the articles around when that article came back in like February or March and just looking back on it and comparing these two things so back all the way in like February uh Pete said we've just had a lot of cool conversations about approach and how we want to see me attack and get that on base percentage back up that swing rate chase rate down I'm confident that Brennan is somebody that will really help me with that so all those conversations that are budding friendship Alex Bregman's leadership how he can help in the clubhouse all these other things and you pair it with this uh after the month of August Pete Car Armstrong and Alex Bregman of the Cubs are the first MLB teammate duo to combine for 25 homers 25 walks 50 RBI and 50 runs scored in a calendar month since Roger Maris and Mickey panel

1:06:27sometimes you spend talking about something leaning on the rest of the way right like and man like what an influence Alex Bregman could be on PCA and and this this new duo this new core that the Cubs are building you read a stat like that and we watched it every day in August you know we're seeing Bregman heat up obviously credit to you you called it I think our guy Brian Smith tweeted out today what his OPS was I've mentioned it before but since you put out you know on what was it June 9th oh I forgot I think it was June 9th I'll pull it up while we're live okay yeah please July 9th excuse the Brendan tweeted one of his fancy you know swing path graphs pretty sad and said Alex may be on the verge of a breakthrough though his timing and point of contact has improved compared to May and our good friend Brian Smith tweeted out that he has a slash line

1:07:30this was before more hits on Thursday's game 335 637 since Brendan tweeted that I would say he was on the verge of a break up when you were on something there well that was pretty funny I would have removed the word maybe it's an absolute we yeah we're gonna happen right but it does speak to the process yes you know and like to Bregman's process but specifically on the two of them to go back like and think of how we talked about the signing for Bregman and seeing the all of the stuff with him and PCA and the relationship and their connection and Bregman teaching him and all this other stuff to be here now where now Bregman has an OPS over 800 he's putting up one of the better years he has overall from a war standpoint he's over last year is he not like oh yeah and he was hurt a little bit but he's a five flat right now like he this is one of the better years he's had in

1:08:31recent he's gonna end up putting up an excellent season I think his WRC plus was over 120 just like that right now you're looking at an overall line you're like this is brilliant this is what you say for he's making excellent plays at third base he's so good at third base so smart to think back on the beginning of it and see Bregman now doing this and being that guy wow simultaneously Pete has done all of those things that they talked about he is corrected all of those things that he talked about but not only did he correct and get that on base percentage up and you know get that walk rate up he's gonna win the MVP and they're gonna do it together sometimes it's just a beautiful thing dude like you you have this vision you have this plan you have all these like kind of dreams of how something is gonna go and like I was reading that stat I'm like and I see in PCA and Alex Bregman get compared to Roger Maris is that what these people are

1:09:33talking about you sure are Cory you're like all right cool well that's that's worked out swimmingly this is exactly in my dreams how this was supposed to go and that's why like the from the fans perspective my last thought on you know Pete and Bregman for today we'll revisit this I'm sure but from a fans perspective that's what you want from your players I want to know what's going on like what makes Pete such an electric appealing fan favorite is he talks to you about those stories Cory what makes Bregman a fan favorite is he expresses how Pete's talking to his like three-year-old child about with the processor going through taking out blogs from the Tribune it's those personality types it's the value I want wins above replacement but I want to talk about like the stories and understand the process and we're I don't want to do it and I want to like poke a hole at him or

1:10:34or poke it but like that's what was missing with Kyle Tucker and so the criticism about Tucker extends beyond this point but one of the contrasts that I had when Bregman was signed and I believe I said this was you're going to get a guy that expresses very literally the love of baseball and for fans who genuinely love baseball they will gravitate to those personality types and you're seeing that with Bregman obviously you've seen that with Pete and then from Pete's perspective it's the humility with which he talks about the performance it's it's like a perfect combination of a fan favorite the values there but the fan perspective is very enjoyable yeah well and you know look to it's just you know full circle on that like you know before they traded for Tucker it's you know where is the superstar he got to have the superstar then Tucker comes he

1:11:35was for a little then he's not you let him go you're like okay now we're sort of back here like who's the superstar anyway Pete was like I'm here boys yes watch what it's me it's me it's me grow up strong in my 10 more season your superstar is me all right we'll leave you with that rollercoaster of a season lock to figure out and and get right and get going in the right direction in the last few weeks here but they're heading towards the playoffs and they're going to have a good group to head in there how good we feel about that how you know are they at their optimal place there's there's some time to figure that out so certainly some things to iron out to be at that maximum confidence level but ultimately like you know obviously it's been a very fun season so far let's hope they can put a nice exclamation point on it to finish out this regular season in these last few weeks Pete doing as much as he can to cement his MVP case

1:12:36and so it should be maybe a nerve wracking but fun last few weeks lock to look for and an effort to get this team in the best place they can to succeed in the playoffs so don't forget to tune in to Luke Joey and Justin throughout the week Brendan and I will be back with you next Friday we appreciate your support as always and with nothing else go Cubs