Chris Hedges: Charlie Kirk, Israel & Sanctifying the Martyr

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In the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, we speak to Chris Hedges, the leading chronicler of America's slide into authoritarianism and how a society that's built around empire fuels an internal decay.

Useful Idiots: Where are you seeing the country now in the response to Charlie Kirk's murder?

Chris Hedges: As soon as Kirk was assassinated, he was elevated within the canon of his movement to the status of a martyr. That was instant. Even before they had apprehended Robinson as the suspect, you had Trump declare him a martyr. You had flags lowered and half-mast. He was given the Presidential Medal of Freedom instantly. I've watched this before in other conflicts, and it's very dangerous because the martyr is really the lifeblood of radical movements

Any kind of dialogue, any kind of compassion with the opposing movement is a betrayal of the sanctity of the martyr. It is to essentially collaborate with people who, through the eyes of the radical movement that you're in, have killed the martyr. And that's, of course, precisely what's happening. They are deadly serious, and they will use the death of Kirk to essentially sanctify this crusade against what is left of our open society.

Useful Idiots: You talked about the sanctification of Charlie Kirk when it comes from the right, but I'm curious what you think of it when it comes from the liberal side. Ezra Klein, who is a prominent liberal columnist for the New York Times, the paper of record, wrote an article called Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way.

Chris Hedges: Well, that's why I don't read Ezra Klein. That's ridiculous.

Charlie Kirk was fomenting hate and demonization. Let's begin with the kinds of things he said about Muslims, the kinds of things he said about people of color, in particular Black people, the kinds of things he said about the LGBTQ community, the kinds of things he said about feminists. This was really vitriolic hate speech. And it is, like all hate speech, giving license to people to act upon that hate speech.

When I heard about the assassination, I was appalled and horrified, not because I have any love for Kirk, but because I know how it would be weaponized. And in all totalitarian states, vigilante groups are vitally important. And they serve this strange purpose: at once, the formal structures of power. They have a kind of deniability because it's not them. It's one step removed. On the other hand, the vigilante group carries out a lot of the dirty work that whatever police state or totalitarian state wants carried out.

Useful Idiots: What do you make of the fallout on the right when it comes to the issue of Israel? A number of sources reported that Charlie Kirk was shifting a little bit on Israel after some unpleasant experiences with pro-Israel donors, including Bill Ackman, and Charlie Kirk was insisting that he was going to keep on giving space to people like Tucker Carlson. The Trump Administration is so completely beholden to the Israeli agenda, and Charlie Kirk, whether it's accurate or not, is being upheld now as a voice of dissent on that. What do you make of that?