Chris Nanos: The El Paso Record, the Deposition, and What It Means for Nancy Guthrie

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biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime today.

This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brusky. Here now, Tony Brusky.

December 25, six weeks before Nancy Guthrie disappears from her home in the Catalina

foothills. Chris Nanos is sitting in a deposition under oath. The lawsuit was filed by his own

union president, the man who represents the deputies who work for him every day.

And an attorney is asking him routine questions about his background, standard stuff,

kind of questions. Any 40-year law enforcement veteran should be able to answer really without

hesitation. The attorney asks, in your career, in your career. So, you know, career means spending

and spreading the length and duration of one's career. This is not at your current job. This

isn't at your current location, at your current department, through the course of your career.

In the course of your career, were you ever suspended?

Chris Nanos said no. Not aware of any disciplinary actions. 40 years clean record. Well, turns out

that's not so true. The Arizona Republic pulled his actual employment file from the El Paso

Police Department. Well, it's in that file. Doesn't just contradict him. It obliterates him.

And today, most of the people following this case have no idea what's in it because the

coverage has been so focused on what's happening now that nobody has stopped to fully reckon

with who has been running this investigation from the beginning.

That changes right now. Chris Nanos joins the El Paso Police Department

in February of 1976. He's 20 years old, fresh out of the University of Texas. It'll pass

out with a degree in public administration and criminal justice. He volunteers for the

tactical squad working undercover as a decoy putting himself on the streets as bait for

robbers and drug dealers. So other officers can move in and make arrests. He gets profile in the

El Paso time. See, when's a gold medal on the department boxing team in 1979, he saves his

partner's life in the line of duty. And the Combined Law Enforcement Association of Texas names

him officer of the year for the Western region. That award is confirmed. It is real. It matters

because what follows only carries the way it deserves if you understand

what he was starting from. He wasn't a bad cop out of the gate. He had genuine talent. He

did dangerous, unglamorous work. Most people wouldn't volunteer for. He had a real future in that

department. What happens next isn't the story of a man who was always rotten. It's the story of

a man who had every opportunity and spent the next five years making choices that told you exactly

who he was. We're about to get into that. And as we do your thoughts in the comments section on

sub stack and YouTube, the links are in the description. We'd love to get your thoughts.

It starts quietly in March of 1979. One day unpaid leave the reason tardiness. He's 23 years old.

He had just one officer of the year, four months later July 1979. It stops being quiet,

two week suspension in a single week or two suspensions in a single week. The first, a shot

fire. The second days later in the same week gambling off duty, two separate incidents, seven days

apart. I don't think what that means. The man who who just stood on stage and accepted an award

for saving his partner's life was suspended twice in one week. Run because his firearm was

discharged under circumstances, serious enough that the department felt it necessary to formally

punish him for it. And one because he was gambling well off the clock. Not months apart. Say,

week. It's not a stumble. It's a pattern announcing itself loudly to anyone paying attention.

In May of 1980, a 10-day suspension without pay. The records listed only as a violation of rules

and regulations. No specifications, 10 days without a paycheck is not a warning or a note on a file.

It's a serious financial penalty and a serious statement from supervisors who have clearly run

out of patience. Through 1980 and into 1981, more tardiness suspensions follow. Written

reprimands accumulate dereliction of duty, making threats, misuse of the police, siren, and violation

of direct department orders. Failure to report for duty. These allegations, these are not isolated

incidents. A reasonable person could chalk it up to a rough patch, maybe. The supervisors are

documenting. They're punishing. He's repeating. The internal affairs history card now carries

26 separate allegations over five years on the job, 26. Remember, he just said, never can't recall

any at all. So unless he's completely blocked out the 80s, which I don't believe he has, he was

lying. Because it keeps going. This is a man who has begun a pattern. Given power,

praised for how he was using that power initially, and then it's pretty much off to Nano's land after that.

It's going to do things the way he wants to do them and he seems to have done that.

Then comes March of 1980 to Chris Nano's arrest or robbery suspect named Carlos Urias.

By the time that interaction is over, Urias is in the intensive care unit of a hospital. According

to records, Urias alleged that Nano's kicked him and struck him in the head during the course

of the arrest. Urias files formal police assault charges against Nano's. A grand jury is convened.

Prosecutors present the evidence. The grand jury declines to indict.

The department suspends Nano's for 15 days without pay, the longest single suspension in the

entire El Paso record. He is simultaneously sent to counseling for a separate violation of rules

and regulations. There was no criminal conviction. But here's what else is true.

A man in Chris Nano's custody ended up in the intensive care unit. That man filed assault charges

against a police officer at the department that employed that officer handed him a 15-day suspension,

a grand jury examined the facts of that arrest and deliberated over whether charges were warranted

every one of those things happened. When it was over, he still had a badge.

By August of 1982, when I came into the world, hi everybody, after five years of escalating discipline,

a suspect in the ICU, a grand jury, 26 allegations, eight suspensions, 37 days without pay,

written reprimands for making threats and dereliction of duty. The incident that finally ends

his career in El Paso is an argument about fraudulent license plates. Nano's believes a patrolman

does not have the authority to confiscate them. His supervisors disagree. He refuses to yield.

He will not back down. The El Paso Times covers it on August 5th of 1982.

The same day I showed up to the planet. The formal termination language in this

internal affairs history card lists two reasons. In subordination and consistent inefficiency,

he's given a choice, resign, or be fired. I remember covering this while I was in the nursery.

I do. I remember I was in the little window where the newborns are and look at the cute little

baby. He has a notepad. He seems to be, there's a corded phone over there by. He seems to be on the

phone trying to cover something. What's going on? He was just born. Trust me, I remember every moment of

it. Nano's was 26 at that point in time. He resigns and the paper trail stays in Texas.

And then nothing. Two years at his official biography simply does not account for.

When the Arizona Republic pressed his department on the gap this last month, they confirmed

corrected dates and said nothing else. What Nano stayed between August of 1982 and 1984 is

unaddressed and really unexplained. In 1984, he surfaces in Tucson, Arizona. 320 miles from El Paso

applying for work as a corrections officer at the Pima County Sheriff's Department to step down

from sworn police work. Pima County supervisor Matt Heinz said this week that he believes Nano's

omitted his El Paso disciplinary history from that application entirely. Nobody caught it.

He was the 80s. He got the job. Got a second chance in a county that had no idea what was sitting

in a filing cabinet back in Texas. And it gets worse. When the Arizona Republic reviewed his publicly

posted resume on the Pima County Sheriff's Department website, here is what they found. His resume

listed his El Paso and date is 1984. Record show he left in 1982. His resume claimed he was

promoted to detective at the El Paso police department. No records confirmed that promotion ever

happened. His resume said he was promoted to captain at Pima County in 2009. Record show he's

promoted in 2007. His department's official response was to call those clerical errors,

administrative in nature, not intended to mislead. Three separate inaccuracies, all in his favor,

all making him look more accomplished and more tenured than the documented record actually shows.

Whether you call those clerical errors or something else as a judgment call,

I've read the file. I know what I call it.

When the Republic contacted him for comment, his response in a direct email was this,

that's your urgent request. You sure you don't want to go back to my high school and ask why I got

swaths from the principal. Good luck with your hit piece.

Oh, you mean good luck calling you out for your lies in an accurate record?

You know, in most places, in most conditions, in most employment situations,

if you are caught lying on your resume for like a huge chunk of it, like the whole reason

you left in place of employment, that's grounds for firing, but you're in elected position.

That's where the recall comes in. Now, we'll touch on that for a quick second.

Somebody's like, oh, there's going to be a recall. Yeah, good luck.

I say that with good luck, truly good luck.

The logistics of getting 120 signatures, 120,000 signatures in 120 days in a county that

was pretty much on the line here. Half of them thought, Nannos is a lovely dude. Let's,

and there's a good chunk that still feel that way. Why? Because they dug in, they made a bad

choice and people like to go down with the ship. Right now, they're idiots, but it is what it is.

So the chance of a recall, who knows? Let's see how the efforts, let's see how motivated people

actually do that. Good luck with your hit piece. That's the response from a man who has spent his

entire career managing what other people know about him, not denial, deflection, not correction

contempt. He's the elected sheriff of Pima County running the most high profile missing person

investigation in the country. And his answer to documented questions about his own record is to

mock the reporter asking them, because that's the end thing to do now. You know, those evil

reporters trying to get to the truth. The El Paso record is only the foundation.

In 2015, after the Pima County Board of Supervisors appoints him sheriff for the first time,

the FBI opens an investigation in his department for misuse of civil asset forfeiture funds.

We've talked about this a bit, but in case you weren't here, here's another fun chapter.

His own chief deputy is federally indicted, accused of misappropriating hundreds of thousands of

dollars meant for law enforcement purposes, $20,000 of those funds reportedly went toward building

a commercial kitchen for the deputies needs to run a cafe. Nana's is not charged, but understand

his response to a federal investigation into his own department, public defiance. He challenges

the FBI's motives. He questions whether they're methods. He picks a public fight with the bureau.

He loses 2016 election. And he comes back anyway. And the people are like, yeah, bring him back.

His people are stupid. In December of 2022, a female deputy in his department is essayed by her

sergeant at a holiday party. The sergeant is later convicted of attempted essay and s abuse.

The Arizona Attorney General's office investigates how Nana's handled it and finds four separate

violations of department policy failing to help the deputy in danger, failing to act in an

official capacity, failing to document staff involvement and failing to properly secure evidence.

The Pima County Board of Supervisors scheduled some meeting to demand answers,

Nana's response by pulling his security detail from their chambers. He returns them weeks later

once the immediate pressure dissipates. He uses the resources of his office's leverage. The moment

anyone demands he be held accountable. It's not a coincidence. This is a pattern of behavior.

Then in 2024, three weeks before election day, he places his Republican opponent an active

lieutenant in his own department, a woman named Heather Lapin on administrative leave.

Same day, he places union president Aaron Cross at administrative leave. Cross's offense was

standing on a street corner off duty, holding a sign that read deputies don't want Nana's.

Gang orders go on both of them. Nana's can speak freely to every outlet that will have it.

They, however, cannot respond. His own party's members cross the aisle to endorse his

Republican opponent. The former Republican sheriff calls it painfully transparent and an

abusive power. The Board of Supervisors calls for investigation by the Arizona AG and the US

attorney. Cross sues for First Amendment violations. Lapin files a $2 million lawsuit.

He wins by 481 votes and walks into 2025 as if none of it happened.

And we wonder why no one's found Nancy Guthrie.

Gee, I wonder. I mean, this is what just gets me about this whole damn case.

We're like, oh, it's this. Oh, it's that. It's like, look at who's running the damn thing.

This isn't rocket science.

You have inept individuals, people who are far more interested in their ego than actually solving a crime,

and have a long track record of not giving a shit what the public thinks of him or

or a law rule of law.

And why he's been enabled. He's been enabled every time. Look how many slaps on the risk this guy got.

Why does he keep doing it because he can? Because the consequences aren't stiff enough to make him change.

There's not enough boundaries and bumpers on the wall that are bouncing him back going, no, no, no.

You can't go over here and know.

He does it his way and his way has a track record of utter failure.

Six weeks after that deposition, the one where he said, no, never suspended. 40 years clean.

Nancy Guthrie vanishes. And this is the man who takes the podium.

The same man whose rank in file deputies reportedly want to file the recall themselves,

but we're afraid of what would happen to them. The same man whose own union president said

releasing Nancy Guthrie's crime scene in two days was a real headscratcher.

The same man who routed evidence to a private Florida lab instead of Quantico who said there was no

glove and then said there were quite a few gloves who reportedly attended a University of Arizona

basketball game. Well, a family waited for a ward on their missing mother who was not held

at press conference in over a month and who by multiple accounts has been spending more time at

the gym than at his desk. Those are the allegations. Pima County Supervisor Matt Hines said on the

record this week, no, you were a bad cop period, not qualified to work in Pima County then.

And I would say to you now,

the formal recall has been filed March 12th.

120 days, 120,000 signatures needed. Historically, recall succeed less than 17% of the time in the United

States, which means this man will in all likelihood still be running this investigation or whatever

remains of it for the foreseeable future. Now, you know the rest of the story. Nancy Guthrie is

still missing. No arrests, no names, suspect, no press conference, no answers, and the man responsible

for finding her sat in a chair in December 25, racist right hand and told an attorney under oath

that 40 years of law enforcement, he's never once been suspended. He lied. He lied. 26 allegations,

eight suspensions, 37 days without pay. Hmm. The voters would love to have known that when they

made that choice, wouldn't they? A robbery suspect in an intensive care unit, a grand jury,

resign or be fired. That's not an ancient history. He'd reasonably forgotten. That's 37 days without

a paycheck and a grand jury examining your conduct. Am I opinion you don't forget that?

What you do, if the record here means anything at all, is decide that controlling the story

matters more than telling the truth about it. And that's the right rate of this. He's been making

that same decision since 1982. For 43 years, it's worked. The question now is, does anyone care?

We're in an age here where we have more access to information than any other point in time.

And at some points, we act so outraged and so moved by the information we have

that, oh, gosh, gosh, wow, this is great. Finally, somebody, and then we also get information.

And then it's just, where will this land? I guess that depends how long the public's attention

span will last on this case. It's already waning. I guess what's more disturbing is, I mean,

the damage, the damage here has already been done. You're not going to go back in time.

If there was a window to get Nancy Guthrie back alive, that has likely passed.

But this guy's in power for the next handful of years. And there will be more missing people

in Pima County. Do you really want him handling it as the sheriff?

I guess we'll find out if 120,000 people will put their signature down

and demand better. Your thoughts in the comments section on YouTube and substack,

looking forward to it right there. Until next time, my name is Tony Bursky. We will talk again

real soon.

Is Hidden Tillers live with Tony Bursky and Robin Dree?

All right, let's move over to another one that we've continued to watch.

More questions I continue to come in. Nancy Guthrie, we're going to be turning this over to you

guys. Some of your questions and we'll do our best to answer them in the comments section on

substack and YouTube. Tammy True Crime on Instagram said, the family just put out a statement

themselves asking to son residents to search their memories. Not law enforcement, the family is

asking this. After 49 days, and they're going back to a very specific date in January, believe

it's the 11th, what does that mean when the family stops waiting for the investigation to reach

people and starts doing it themselves, starts going to the actual to the community saying,

here's the dates I want you to look at. And here's why. That's interesting to me. It's almost

like we're overstepping a little bit, but but sometimes I think you kind of might need to.

Yeah. So when Savannah and her family come out with this one, once again, I think they have

their shit in line more than anyone else because when you think about it, because as soon as I saw

the statement, I loved reading statements. I love watching statements because you want to kind of

assess what's going on, you know, what's how's it being made behind the scenes. And Savannah,

each time she's actually had a very specific intent about who she's targeting in her message

that they're putting out. Remember the first one was intended for the perpetrator. The second one

is giving grace to perpetrator. And then then the next one I think was about the people

surrounding the potential perpetrator. This one is now targeted towards the people in the community.

And I think it's just a really good job she's doing to make sure that she is staying on top of it

because with mixed messaging, with weird messaging, with with cryptic stuff from law enforcement

and not law enforcement, but just really the sheriff in general. I think looking for her looking to

her for clear messaging is all she feels she can do because again, what you're trying to do is you're

trying to feel in control of an uncontrollable situation. So at least she can control her messaging.

So I thought it was a good a good reminder to folks and those dates, I think those dates are

important because that's what is law enforcement is focusing on because they do have those on those

still photos of what looks to be the porch guy at another date staking out her house on Nancy's

house. And so they want to really remind people check ring cams check nest cams check your surroundings

jog that memory for anything that wasn't on the date of Nancy's disappearance. But you know back

track to that January timeframe. So you can kind of see what is in your mind to try to give a

tipper lead to kind of move this thing forward. Here's another one. The FBI is not going around

asking about people who moved out of Nancy's neighborhood right before she disappeared. I know I've

seen rumblings of this online too. One person says that that feels huge to me. Am I reading too much

into that or does that tell us something about where this investigation is actually pointing

thoughts. Yeah, I think it's a it's a good move. You know, because out of sight out of mind, you

know, if you move from an area, you're not really thinking about it. So I think it's hitting two

two possibilities here. One, if you're moving out, you know, you might still have things that you

saw, but you dismiss it because you're too busy with your move. And so that's one thing kind of

jog the memory. But also if you're moving out, who knows you're moving out? So I know one of theories

out there is that the porch guy or the perpetrators this might have used another house or vacant house

or a house that was in a process of moving out as a staging point. So I think it serves a multiple

things here. Again, just because and I think it's important to remember to just because law enforcement

wants to explore possibility doesn't mean they think it's this possibility as like 99% is the truth.

Yeah. Just this is how you flush out leads. If it comes up as an idea, like we've said numerous times,

you get 40,000 leads in probably 30,500 of them are going to be garbage, but you have to flush

every one of them out because you just don't know. And also you just don't know because you're

following up on this one lead or this one idea, it doesn't mean that you'll get another jog

of memory. Sometimes the idea will go this way. It's over here. So it's usually going to be one or

two degrees of separation of what you're searching for. Yeah. But you can only find that one or two

degrees of separation if you do do this. So they have to flush it all out.

And I think everyone needs to also remember to a lead does not mean that it's leading you to

necessarily once you hit that lead to the actual perpetrator. That lead is leading you to some

information point. I mean, it could be if that's what they they may think, but I don't think

that's the case here. It's leading to someone who may have just some information and they may not

know what sort of information that person may have. They may just simply be, yeah, I moved

down on this state. Did you have any cameras around your house? No, I didn't. Did you see anything

around? No, I didn't. Okay. Done with the lead. And that may be it. If the if the lead has

nothing to give you and they can prove that they had nothing to do with it, that may be as far as

that lead goes. Not I think a lot of people when they hear lead, they think at the end of every

lead is going to be, you know, the hot fudge Sunday with the predator on top. I don't know why

he be on a hot fudge Sunday, but I guess that's just what we're going to go. It's about getting

it's about getting the creative juices in your mind going to kind of get the people thinking in

terms of this and talking these things out and talking with law enforcement or even just talking

amongst yourselves because you can only start remembering things once you start putting things

on that palate in front of you. And so that's what leads earth therefore is just start start the

brain working because it because again, just because you start here, it doesn't mean that it's

going to not go here here and here. I mean, it's really just keeping the doors wide open especially

when you, especially when it looks like they had in the situation are now is they have nothing

super solid like they're following a track because this track is definitely going to lead to

the perpetrator. No, they're, they're pinging on everything they possibly can.

How concerned should we be about nanos lying recently about his track record about no,

no issues in the past. The comment is robbing the sheriff of this case was just exposed for lying

under oath about his own record. It says you spent years of your career detecting deception.

When someone in power lies that smoothly about something that document about his own track record,

we're not talking about the case. How about the the 70s and 80s in El Paso, I believe.

What is that tell you about how they operate in every other area of their life or can it be

super compartmentalized? Could it mean absolutely nothing that people as you often say now they're

going to be operating in their own self interest and if their own self interest is not talking about

the disciplinary measures from 40 some years ago and the odds of over coming back up to light

are slim to nil. He might lie about those which he appears to have done. Does that have any sort

of influencer weight on how this case is being handled over here? So do you really think anyone

has shocked that he was trying to control his narrative towards entire life? See what I mean.

So so when it's not shocking to us on the outside it's not shocking to those on the inside because

it's a pattern of his life and behavior he's done for a very long time. So because it's not

shocking to anyone internally not shocking any of us on the outside is it really impacting anything?

No because they've all his his that I've been I've never really focused on Thanos in this because

again he's just elected mouthpiece. Yeah. I'm focusing on the detectives. Will this behavior impact

their ability to be effective and work? Most likely not because they're used to working around him.

Most like more now granted. Could it be better? 100% if you actually had a solid leader at the top

that was that people loved to work for. They couldn't wait to show up every day. They couldn't

wait to brief their boss on what's going on. The boss was asking the right questions. The boss

is getting them the right resources. The boss communicating with all the other people that have

a vested interest in this to keep that information flow. In other words if you had that person

at the center hub right there of that of that wheel of that wagon wheel that actually people love

to communicate with they couldn't wait to talk to that could make a huge difference. But since his

pattern behavior has been consistent throughout his entire life he's extremely predictable.

And they know how to work around him. Unfortunately that's going to take. And that's that's

very true. I mean there I'm and I'm sure there are good investigators on this case. Working

around him is an interesting take on it because it really I think it's probably time for you to do it.

And how I mean you can speak to that when you have to work around people that that are above you

how much how much more productive could it be if you weren't having to work around what you

were working in tandem with with somebody who should in principle be on the same page and and

trying to elevate you to so you can do your work better and you can shine better and you can

produce better results rather than working against you. It could make such a huge difference

because what you're doing as an investigator is is you're trying to coordinate everything

that's going on in the investigation all the resources all the research all the other all the

other agencies that are involved and and without a boss that can actually be an advocate for you to

take the burden off you to be that that reach out and touch someone because really what what

what an investigator needs is someone that actually can reach out and call a colleague on the phone

and say hey my guy here my woman here is working on some investigation what can you do to help

us instead the investigators themselves are having to call their contacts call their friends say hey

I need some help and so it takes more bandwidth away from them because they have to be the point

man doing this rather it would hopefully be your bosses that are doing it for you because they are

in I remember when I was still in the FBI there they're the most important thing for a resident

agency to have from their boss and they would get removed I saw people be removed in the FBI

that they look great on paper but if they ruined relationships with the locals they removed

because the number one goal and objective of leadership in a local field office was to foster

relationships with all the other law enforcement in the area because we all need each other you know

the FBI's got I think that when I was in is like something like 15,000 agents across the entire

country that's not a lot working counterintelligence we're talking just hundreds so we're always

relying on other organizations other people other relationships and the role of the leadership

and management is to bring those resources bring their relationships they are put in that position

because they have the reps of the investigative side so they know how to be a resource and know

how to guide the ship but more importantly they're bringing the resources of their relationships

to bear for that investigator and if you got a guy or a woman in charge that can't do that because

they're hated their despise or they're messaging sucks or they they blow relationships left and

right because of too self-serving that's where it hurts. Hey Mr. Nannos there's a little advice

for you know maybe improve things I got a few reps I got one more for you and this is for me

this is from Tony in Arkansas um this is I've been actually wondering about this um so we've had

so many cases here where after the crime scene and then there's the cacophony of reporters and

everybody gathering around doing whatever they're doing at the crime scene often times you have

the perpetrator that shows up to those places we haven't really talked about that at all in this case

and there was it was a zoo around Nancy's house for a good month before they got that

more cordoned off and under control as far as who could park where and do what on these streets

um I'm just wondering do you think they were taking a close look at everybody who was coming

and going from the scene in the days and the weeks after um again because we've seen this before

sometimes you're the person who you're searching for is right under your nose and you don't

even know it and that makes me wonder about the investigation a bit of could that person have been

right there as an onlooker I don't know I mean I'm not accusing anybody or anything like that but

I'm just wondering did they blend in could they have blended in in those weeks following is

everybody's like who is it like yeah over here look at me smiling Tony that's a great insight

I mean I haven't heard anyone say that now I don't know if they've done that either what a

that would be that would be a really really good thing for them to do that's a great quote I would

think they did but I also would think they weren't dropping 16 gloves everywhere either

but they did and they are so we're here so in hindsight what you'd have to have set up is you'd

have to have cameras set up um but so so here's our challenge for our friends and colleagues in

the media sector take a look at the footage you got see if anyone stands out and pass that along

those could be tips I'm not kidding that that is a great observation great tip I haven't had one

person talk about that but you're very right now I don't know if this area is conducive to that

I haven't looked up research for this kind of events whether this is a type of criminal event

that someone would be a retread back in the area um it's it always is a possibility though so I

definitely think it needs to be flushed out because that's a great insight I mean it's not I mean

I'm probably the type of crime it is I mean I wouldn't say necessarily I mean if it was a B&E

kind of like how you and me think it might have been right horribly wrong I don't think they're

back they're lurking around I think they're like getting out of dodge as quickly as they can that's

my that my intent is run yeah but I think they're in a real run mode if it's not that if it is

something that that we're not seeing and if it is something where it was more

co-burger-ish for lack of a better term um those are the type of folks that come back so so

so here's an interesting conjecture on this so I know um others have been floating the idea

the horrendous idea we I won't get explicit on it that there was another intent that they had

the answer inside that house now if that was truly you know it's everything's a possibility

until you know the truth if that was actually one of those of a possibility that actually has

probably a higher possibility of this person showing back up because guys like cober like trophies

they like reminiscing they like kind of playing that tape back in their head because it gives them

a rush um so it's definitely something that especially on the early on days it they need to kind

of take a deeper look at that that's what I'm saying early on I'm not I mean who knows anything's

possible but I would say those first handful of days is usually when we see the perpetrator make

an appearance this happened in coberger case if we were to dig into it I'm sure I could find

50 other examples it's it because but but I I would be very curious of anybody who is out there

reporting that has I mean just take a look I mean there was a lot of onlookers but but but but

be very careful too I'm not telling anybody so go start pointing out people and you know doxing

them I'm just saying it would be you know if there's something off that seems weird let the

authorities know not not like let's do a tick-tock on it but I would think you might have some

interesting footage in those early days I tell you it's take a lot of manpower and a lot of

resources to kind of sort through all this because of the the media nightmare and show it was

afterwards but what that would be looking at is let's take a look at the ring cams on the

neighbors for the week or two following the event as well again again you're gonna get a lot but

it's a lot you're gonna have to you'd have to rule out what actually is media what actually is just

you know but that would be a very interesting look to kind of go through that again hey what happens

as cases start getting more limited on the leads that they're following those kind of things will

pop up and they'll start actually clearing those I would think you'd be interesting to see where

any leads in a case where we don't really have much I don't know anyone talk about that that's

a really good one Tony I thought of it early on and I didn't really say anything I don't know I

it was no real intent I think I just kind of got distracted every time it came to mind well

it's not well well here's what I like about this we're not talking about another wild conspiracy

theory we're just like hey this is something that might be looked at because yeah kind of makes

sense yeah I mean it we're depending on what the yeah what the intent was there uh your thoughts

in the comments section on sub stack and YouTube we'd love to hear them weigh in and we'll continue

our conversation right there robin's book it is out now you can get it wherever you get books

it's not all about me go and check that out uh and uh and and get out get you know on that uh

all right so until next time for robin for Todd I'm Tony Bursky we will talk again

real soon want more on this case and others then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of

true crime coverage from Tony Bursky and the Hidden Killers podcast

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