Citizen D | It Can't Be People! Voices From the Inner Circle, What is Really Making Crop Circles?

0:00Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albert, since Vaughn's and Pavilion's. Follow us coming, which means coffee and cold season is all most here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite cough and cold essentials now through September 29th. Shop in store and online to save on products like Allegra tablets, Hallstrops, Musinx Kickstart, Zyrtec Allergy Relief tablets, Tylenol Liquid Gels, One a day men's health, and VIX Daqel and Nikew combo packs. Offer and September 29th, Restrictions Apply, offers May vary. Visit Albert, and Vons or Pavilions.com for more details. I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder and weirder and finally it's going to be so weird

1:08that people are going to have to talk about how weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host, Chris Matthew. Today my guest is Citizen D. Check out our new updated website. The Forbidden Knowledge Network is available there. Some wonderful podcasts that we feature. We've got links to our merch shop as well. We've got great shirt designs. Go check that out. We've got hoodies, shirts from the films. We have a link for that right in the description as well. Watch my films. I call it Louisiana's on 2B. Doors of Perception on Amazon Prime. I am booking guests for October. If you have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest, email me for vidna knowledge news at gmail.com. Today I want to welcome Citizen D. He is a retired crop circle maker, 40-in journalist and author of six acclaimed books. Citizen D, welcome. How you doing? I'm really good, my friend. How are you? I'm excellent, man. It is great to have you on.

2:08Very much looking forward to this. You're presenting a very interesting topic today. Based on not only your personal experiences in research, but many other interviews you've done, this is covered in your book. It can't be people voices from the inner circle, which explores the phenomena of crop circles, specifically the possibility, not only that it's humans creating them, but they may be guided by some profound supernatural events, maybe some psychic coercion, that leads to a compulsion to create crop circles. And this is based on your own personal experiences, like I said, as well as many interviews you've done about the phenomena. I'm really stoked to get into this. Before we do, this is your first time on. Tell us a little bit about yourself and let the audience know how they can find more. Cool. Yeah, that's a very succinct introduction, it's brilliant. Yeah, the book is...

3:09It can't be people voices from the inner circle. And the reason why I've chosen to use a pseudonym for this, is really, it's prosaic. The first reason is that I'm a journalist and an author by trade. And I wanted to try and segregate this away from the other work that I do, because obviously there's conflicts there where I write about specialist areas. And I wanted to try and segregate this away. Also, people say, well, crop circle hoaxes are just in it for the year ago. And it's the big item. I want to make a name for myself. So I thought, if I put it under a pseudonym and I just let the accounts talk, I'll let the anecdotes talk, I'll let the stories talk, then that kind of deflects away from the individual and it means that you can really home in on the messages themselves. But just as a bit of background,

4:10I'm a diet in the world, you follow just and paranormal researcher since the age of about 10, I've been interested in this subject. I don't know why. When I saw close encounters as a kid, it blew my head off. I was only like 10. I just thought it was incredible. So, but we had this magazine called The Unexplained in the UK back in the day, in the eighties and the seventies. And it was, I was in, as a kid, I was into the cheering shroud, nessie, big for electrical voice phenomenon, ectoplasm, everything, mate, everything, everything, you follow, but you follow, jeez, the thing that really brought me in, I was really fascinated by you, follow, jeez. I was particularly interested in the, in the Trent Ranch photographs and also the, the Trinidad photographs. I thought they were very compelling. So, back back in the day,

5:10before we had the internet and AI, and there was no noise, there was no, there was no internet. All we had, it was, it was actually a beautiful time for you, follow, jeez, because there was no noise, there was no bickering, all we had was the literature. So we had the Mufon magazine, we had Flancels review, we had the, we had the Bufora magazines. We had the key literature of like, Chatvai, who to me is the Godfather, if you follow the G, we had John Keel, Jenny Rand, or John Spence, you know, you know, you know, the school. So, I came in purely as like somebody who was like really, really interested in this stuff, but we had this thing called the UFO case books, and I don't think you had them over the pond. We had this thing where every year, we'd have like a bulletin book. It would like revisit famous cases like Lonnie Zamora and Gulf Breeze and Kelly Hopkinsville and Betty and Barney. But hey, it's Tories, spelling with back to school season here.

6:12The focus at my house has shifted to classes, assignments and after school activities. And good nutrition is especially important. Leanweep is packed with protein, iron, zinc, and other essential nutrients that help kids thrive in the classroom and stay energized throughout the day. Visit back to school California dot com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan C crest for Albert since and Tom thumb now through September 29. Save on all your favorite personal care essentials and earn four times of points shop in store or online for items from your favorite brands like native, and teen crest always Gillette or will be and tampax and earn four times the points points can be redeemed for discounts on future purchases on groceries and gas. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer and September 29 restrictions apply offers may vary visit Albert since vans or pavilions dot com for more details. This is Ashley Kennedy from the almost famous podcast.

7:14You ever notice you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything. That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous. We went to resort past dot com. There are hundreds of hotel resorts pools and spots and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort pool spa massage without booking an overnight stay. And listen, I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed. Just go to resort past dot com choose your resort choose your day luxury resort day passes start at just $1, $1, $1, once you post your daycation people are going to ask where you are good resort past dot com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resort past dot com slash almost famous. They'd also be talking about new sightings new CE ones new CE to new C3s,

8:18but they started to print pictures of crop circles and they were this was the early days. So they were very basic. They just look like that their president was the Australian talliness, where it's just basically a single circle that looked like a flying saucer had come down parked up and flown away again. But because they were in crop in this country in wheelchair, the and hamps here, because the crop was high, the indentations were more pronounced because it wasn't grass. So and they were presented as birthed flying saucers. And I became fascinated by that and then they started to progress. As you know, we had the the Led Zeppelin cover the Alton Barnes Eastfield formation, but that was like door keys and folks and dumbbells and corridors. At that point, the correlation between UFOs and crop circles should have been divorced really,

9:24because no UFO looks like that, you know, you're not this you know, especially not aerodynamically. So, but what had happened in my mind was that UFOs have become so married with crop circles that people started to say, well, okay, this is no longer birth flying saucers. This is now messages from my intergalactic space brothers. And I always thought that transition was really, really clunky, you know, I do think it's been glossed over. And that's that's where I came in. I came in with the mindset that these picture grams, these complicated crop circles, I've thought they were ET. I thought they were time travelers, secret military testing or the earth itself, mother earth, Gaia. And I that's I came in. I came in as a complete believer. Tell us what really brought you to want to put this information in a book.

10:27Tell us about maybe your personal experiences, which led to everything. That's perfect. Because what happened is we had this resource called the crop circle connector, which is still active now. And the crop circle season is from like April to like August, depending on how hot the summer is. Sometimes if we have a really hot summer, the crop gets all cut by July, which we've had this year, which in terms of global warming is quite worrying. It's the shortest window we've had. So the crop circle connector would tell us where the circles were and when where they were when they were made. And then you and then they'd be called in it. And you could drive to them. Maybe you can get into the field because it's trespass without the farmers permission, et cetera. But you knew where they were. But this is key. If they were 10 circles, but we knew that two were man made. You just wouldn't want to go in. You're not interested. That's hoaxes. You know, we were thinking the mystery is deep enough.

11:30I always use the analogy of the magician with one ball under three cups. And then some idiot comes and adds another 10 cups. It's like fake you a faux footage. It's like, I, I, it's like the mystery was deep enough. We held these hoaxes in disdain. Okay. But one year I decided to take off all of my holiday from work and just drive to wheelchair camp out and just spend the whole season there to see if I could, you know, find out more. And when I was camped out there. I started to hear second or third hand accounts and apocryphal accounts and the room, the meal, the grapevine. Just human circle makers reporting dream driven events, synchronicities or apparitions, time distortions, reality distortions. And at the time I was in disdain with the human crop circle makers and I thought you're just a bunch of, you know, just ego big eye and look at me.

12:35But then one day in the end I decided, well, I don't really care how they get there. I'm all concerned about the power they have when they're there because you know that they're allegedly sigils some people say. And they're in, they're in a very, very important part of the country here because we've got very, we've got areas steeped in nearly for history. We've got stone hinge a free. We've got the tumour, either hinges. It's really, it's really powerful here. And if you're into lane lines, this is apparently the most powerful point in Europe in Avery. But long story short, I was in the pub car park or in the garden and somebody come up to me and he said, look, we've been kind of watching you for the past few days. We think you might be aligned to what we're doing. There's a crop circle. It's not been finished. No one's discovered it yet. We've got to go finish it tonight because in those days there was no drones and it was really easy for a crop circle to to lay undiscovered for a couple of days.

13:40So I found my partner and I said, look, I've been called out. I think in order to know the mystery inside and out, I need to go and do this because that way I can rule it out. If I go in there and do this thing with these people, I can then delve in further with my researches or I can just leave it because it's a waste of time. You know, you've got to be empirical. You've got to be objective and I thought, if I know the mystery from the inside of this element, then I know it from outside as well. But I said to my partner, I'm going to make you this promise. If nothing odd happens tonight, I'm out. There are hopes is there just idiots. I'm not interested. They can do one. I'll just concentrate on the real stuff. And that happened. I went out. It was a two stage event, as I say, that there was a couple of American tourists that tagged along. They were on the team. I think was a turn about the team was about 15 people. And at the end, nothing happened. And I thought, one of ways to time, I can actually close the book on these idiots now. And then didn't even make a circle or anything.

14:49No, no, it was we finished it. We finished it. The end of the night when the circle was finished, nothing had happened. Okay. Okay. Nothing paranormal had happened. So I thought, this is a waste of time. But the circle was finished. But I looked at the edge perimeter line of the circle that we just made. And I saw a single flash go off like a Polaroid bulb. And I thought, I thought that's a journalist. Is somebody crouching low? It wasn't like a shoulder height. It was really low. And I thought somebody's, somebody's bowing, somebody's crouching down in the crop there. And they've taken a photograph. And I said to the team later, this is be done because, you know, I'm in a job where I can't have any whiff of naughtiness. This is going to be a criminal mark against me. And he just went, no, no, don't worry. This is common. And I thought, what do you mean by that? And then this light and turned into two lights, then three lights. And I thought, is that three people with photographs? Is that one, like with the same camera?

15:49Then it proliferated into five or six. And then it proliferated into what I call in my book, the largest necklace in the world because these lights sprinkle their way around the perimeter of the circle. And it wasn't like, it was like a wall. They weren't, they weren't behind each other. It was like this wall. And I said to the team leader, what the hell is that? And he said to me, look, he was really blas I, because he made loads. Okay. He said, look, you get used to this. If you keep, if you keep making circles, you're going to get used to this. But what this is is we are being told this circle is finished. And if you add any more to it, like a painter, he doesn't know when he's finished the painting. If you add anything else to it, you're going to mess it up. Leave it. This is like a round of applause. Okay. And the team leader looked to the sky. And he said, okay, we're done now. We've done our work. Now you'll do, now you, you do yours. Now what he meant by that. I found out later was that when you're in the circle making it, it's just like a wall.

16:52It's like a circle making it. It's yours. But the second that you leave it, it doesn't belong to you anymore. It belongs to the world. And then he said, okay, we're shipping out now. You do your work now. And he said, okay, goodbye. And I said, tea, who are you talking to? And he went that lot. And then he said, we're going now. And then he said, buy and then these lights just as one like it was like a bathroom light, flipped off the whole thing, flipped off like almost in response to him saying goodbye. And that's when I thought, okay. You know, I've never been able to explain that might there might be a rational explanation. There might be a rational. As I say, you've got to stay objective. But to this day, I've got no idea what that was. And the similar thing is reported by the circle making teams. So that was that was the start of my journey. That's incredible. How did everything progress from there? Did you continue to attend these sessions and have strange experiences along the way?

17:56Hey, it's stories, spelling with back to school season here. The focus at my house has shifted to classes assignments and after school activities. And good nutrition is especially important. Lean beef is packed with protein, iron, zinc and other essential nutrients that help kids thrive in the classroom and stay energized throughout the day. Visit back to school California dot com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albertsons, bonds and pavilion. Fall is coming, which means cough and cold season is almost here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite cough and cold essentials now through September 29th shop in store and online to save on products like a leg red tablets, cold drops, muesa next kickstart, zirtec allergy relief tablets, Tylenol liquid gels, one a day men's health and VIX DAKOLE and NICLE combo packs offer and September 29th restrictions apply offers may vary. Visit Albertsons, bonds or pavilions dot com for more details. This is Ashley Akinetti from the almost famous podcast. You ever notice you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything.

19:06That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous. We went to resort past dot com. There are hundreds of hotel resorts pools and spots and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort pool spa massage without booking an overnight stay and listen, I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed. So just go to resort past dot com choose your resort choose your day luxury resort day passes start at just $1,500. Once you post your daycation people are going to ask where you are good resort past dot com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resort past dot com slash almost famous. Well, everybody I've been asked this a lot. There's no like cabal or secret free masonry lodge with circle makers. You just you have teams. They get old. They retire. They bring a new people there. People go and make it. It's like a revolving person. There's no like.

20:17There's no particular camera artery to do it. You know, it's just people that are compelled to do it or people that are artists and people that are dropping out and coming in all the time. And something strange doesn't happen every time you make one. I'd say probably only 40 40 or 50% of the time something odd happens. But sometimes you think nothing odd has happened and then you find out the next day the internet tells you that there's a relevance to that circle. It's for shadowed something or it's for told something an event that's happened 24 hours later or or 48 hours later. And that's something that we had no knowledge of at the time. So you go and make a pattern and then you don't necessarily know why you why you've actually decided on that pattern. And then it turns out that that particular pattern had a direct relevance to either the area or that exact sort of parish or a world event. Wow. So that's my interest really is it's in the synchronicities and in the the dream driven stuff. That's that's where I am with it after interviewing these people for lights of so many years.

21:30I mean, I've got I've got an account where somebody had an intense dream of a particular pattern that had never been done before. And when he woke up, he just thought, well, how has that never been done before? It was a little bit like when Paul McCartney woke up after after after writing yesterday. He's like, how has that never been done before? It comes to him fully formed because a lot of artists and musicians say these ideas come to me fully realized. So he had this circle that was fully formed in his head and he thought, right, let's see if I can do it on paper using like the compass and the geometry set and he could and he find up and he found up a friend. He said, look, I've got this design that's never been never been done before. I've just tried it out on my geometry set. It can be done, but we're going to need three people. It's too complicated to explain over the phone. How about I come around now? I'll draw it out for you. If you like it, we can do it next week. The guy said, go for it.

22:31So he went around his house, but on the way there and this was this was his normal commute. He drove down this road a thousand times on his on his way there. He said it was an internal external direction, this voice that there that said, look to your left. And he had no reason to look to his left because he'd seen this field of billions times, but he said he looked to his left and you've guessed the rest. It was exactly the crop circle that he was driving around his friends. I mean, I don't mean just a little bit. It was exactly that. And of course, see. He drove the other way and went home. But what he said to me was that where we have like maybe a mystical element to this is that if you've got a team of up to 10 or 20 human beings and they are all focused and intent on the same symbol. And with the exertion and the physical effort and the sweat and the energy expelled in manifesting that sigil or that symbol, that in itself is arguably magic, whether they know it or not, because obviously when Wiccons and pagans use the same sort of supplications with the intent and the effort as well, but without without actually building them.

23:54That also is manifestation as well. But you don't see people giving Wiccons and pagans a hard time because they're humans, you know, with human circle makers. I think just the intent of a group of people in an illithic site and the exertion and they're all focused on the same symbol. This guy said maybe because he lived a couple of miles away, he said maybe as that circle was being manifested into the world, maybe it bled into his dream. And he was actually having some sort of interconnectivity with the circle making team while it was happening. And that that's really the area that I'm really, really interested in. And what's important is that I'm not here to burst anyone's bubble, you know, it's not my place to say to you, these are all man made. It's not my place, it's not fair because my objective, my objectivity and my empirical researches might steer me a different way tomorrow.

24:58So I took great care in the book to say, I'm not going to tell you these are all man made or they're not. What I'm saying to you is if we concentrate just on what is happening with with with human circle makers, if you want, you can segregate that away from everything else from the ET stuff or whatever you believe. Because I think that what's happening with human circle makers is worthy of investigation in its own right because of all of the synchronicities and the dream driven events we have. That's where I am with it. The groups that you were working with, did they pre plan the design of the circles before they started doing it? Of course, of course you've got to because otherwise you've got to mess it up, it's, it's as I said to you, we've got between say August and March to do the groundwork. And you had to be careful who you took out because if you had a weak member of the team.

25:59They'd start off with you'd have to start them off as what we call a stomped trooper. So the circles plotted out by the experts by the real great designers and the new guys. Their direction is just board within the lines and just flatten it. Don't do anything complicated because you're going to mess it up. And then obviously as they go on and become more experienced, then they start to start their own teams that branches off. I was asked recently how many circle makers you think they've been historically. And I have to honestly say it probably runs into four figures. It probably runs into thousands of people because people coming in like those just like those American guys, you know, the tourists. I never saw them again, you know, and then you get forwarders coming over here and then you start to see maybe circles in France and Italy now and again, which should where they've gone. And they're in their own in their own country. Before we get to other examples of what some people may have experienced with synchronisities or dreams or strange phenomenon that led them to the circle.

27:07Did you have any other unexplainable experiences, synchronisities, dreams, anything like that? Yeah, I have one which I just can't explain to this day. And it was that I used when I was a believer when it went when I when I thought they were all like ET or all, you know, time travelers all I used to charter a micro light aircraft from Yatesbury and we used to fly every morning to see if there was any new circles. It's quite expensive actually. But I had this recurring dream where I was in the micro light that I chartered. But then the micro light would evaporate and I would be and then it would turn into an OB. It would turn into like an out of body experience because I'm there's no plane I'm flying. And it really felt really real. You know, you could feel yourself swooping. It was really real. So it felt out and I'd always be over these certain two fields and they were massive.

28:09And it was over a part of wheelchair I'd never seen before. And I knew the area like the back of my hand. I thought. And there was always a bloke flying next to me. And it was somebody I went to school with and I hadn't seen them for 30 years. And I used to wake up and think there's that dream again. There's because in the dream I'll be flying over two fields and in each field there was a crop circle and they were both completely different. Always the same two fields, always the same two circles. And it for months. And I woke up and I used to wake up thinking why am I dreaming about that bloke flying next to me? I couldn't work it out. One day I was driving to see a friend in wheelchair and I took a wrong turn. I'm wrong turn in this phenomenon. Sometimes it's different to what it means in real life and normal life. I took a wrong turn and I found myself in this diorama of what I'd seen in my dream. It was exactly the scene and I thought, well, I thought I knew all of wheelchair and it was exactly that scene.

29:12I looked to my left and the road that had led me there was the same name as the road that my friend lived in when I used to go and play around his house as a kid. When I was 10 and I thought, well, that's odd. And I had a team coming down. There was four of us, I think. And I found my partner and I said, look, I've got to get a circle down in one of these fields, but I can't do both. We've only got the resources and the time to do one. In terms of difficulty, they are exactly the same. They're 50, 50 in terms of size. They're the same. In terms of the exertion and the manpower, they're exactly the same. I just cannot decide which one to do. And the team couldn't decide either. So we went to a field and I went to the first field. I thought, what I'm going to do? I would just look skywalker this. I'll just do the first thing that comes to my head. If it's a straight line, it's this circle. If it's a curved line, it's that circle. Got the circle down.

30:16Next day, I got a phone call from my partner and she said, she's, how did you do that? I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, the photos are up online. They're on the crop circle connector. It's been flown. I pilot seen them. I said, what do you mean them? What do you mean them? She goes, well, Hey, it's Tori Spelling, actress, podcast host and mom. So back to school means the same thing to me as it does to you. Whatever's on that school supplies list, make sure you add protein, iron, zinc and the rest of the 10 essential nutrients found in beef. Sounds like homework, tastes like the best school lunch ever. Visit back to school at California dot com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more. Back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albert, since Vaughn's and Pavilion, follow his coming, which means coffee cold season is all most here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite coffee and cold essentials now through September 29th shop in store and online to save on products like Allegra tablets,

31:19Hallstrops, Musinx Kickstart, Zyrtec Allergy Relief tablets, Tylenol Liquid gels, one a day men's health and VIX DAKOLE and NICLE combo packs offer and September 29th. Restrictions apply offers may vary. Visit Albert, since Vaughn's or Pavilions dot com for more details. This is Ashley Akinetti from the Almost Amos Podcast. You ever notice you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything. That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous. We went to resort pass dot com. There are hundreds of hotel resorts, pools and spots and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort, pool, spa, massage without booking an overnight stay. Listen, I may have only been 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed. So just go to resortpass.com, choose your resort, choose your day, luxury resort day passes start at just $25.

32:20Once you post your daycation, people are going to ask where you are. Go to resortpass.com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resortpass.com slash almost famous. You've made both your circles. And I said, now we haven't. I said, I got one done because I only had a team of four. You got one done and that's sitting. She says, but your other circle is in the in the field next door. And I went, but that's impossible. And I went to an internet cafe because in those days, there was no Wi-Fi. You had to drive to like a desktop and we found the the aerial picture of my circle. And if you look from the air, there was a strip dividing my circle with the other field and the other field had the other circle in there. So you had both of my circles in a neighboring fields, but because the the strip denoted a hill.

33:20So from the air, it looked like a line, but actually on the ground, it was a massive hill. So we were working in one in one field and the other team were working in the other field. And we didn't know about them and they didn't know about us. And then we come up with those two circles from my dream. Were they the same or similar? Yes, I wouldn't have wasted your time with a story if it was exactly. Yeah, yeah. Wow. As I said, in terms of ability, in terms of how hard they were to do. Yeah. They worked that complicated, but it was 50, 50. It was the same amount of man, man, man power and the same amount of the same scale. But there was another case where a team was supposed to be making swallows. And there was a weak member because he was new. And like the team leader, I've got to hone in on this new guy because we're stretched as a team. So he does need to measure some out.

34:21So he spent the whole day mentoring, mentoring this guy. And they were on the way to the field and they stopped by the field. And this team leader kind of set belt upright as if he'd been jacked into a super computer or something. And he just went, no, no, no spirals. And they went, what? He said, we're not doing swallows. We're doing spirals. And the new guys going, I don't know what I'm doing. We're going to mess it up. And they guys, no, it's going to be fine spirals. So they got the spirals down to double spirals. It wasn't that complicated. So it went okay. Then they went to the cafe the next day to see if it had been reported. And they found their, they found their double spirals online. But they said, well, hold on a minute. The filters wrong because we were working in Golden Barley. This is in green wheat. And somebody said, well, the locations wrong as well. These people are normally really good. What's going on?

35:22Then they scroll down and they found their actual double spirals. The ones above were another set of double spirals, which were pretty much identical. And they were done the same night around the same time. Now the post script to this story is that 10 years later, some one of that team was driving on the A303. He picked up a hitchhiker who was in trouble by the road to take into a garage or to get his car repaired. And he said, he didn't know this person from Adam. And as you know with this subject, you don't start talking about random paranormal subjects to strangers. He said, but they were in the car. And the first thing they discussed was crop circle. He said that in a loan. That loan was a bit strange. And it turned out this guy was part of a sky. He said, well, he said, we made a crop circle for a laugh 10 years ago. They were skydivers. And he said the two champion skydivers, they had this trope of flying down together.

36:27And the double spiral was supposed to represent their descent. Now the thing with that story is there's no great archetypal, you know, fantastic supernatural message to it. It's just mundane. It does show that there's a connectivity between humanity, I think, you know, it could be a coincidence, but it's really stretching it, you know, especially as it was supposed to be swallow as the many decided two minutes before. Based on my own experiences and so many others that I've interviewed, once you have that initial awakening to the possibilities of high strangeness or metaphysical phenomenon of any kind, once you experience it yourself and that opens up your mind, and it seems to allow you to have more experiences and to be open to that. You're right, it does, I think that if you are aligned to any of these subjects, you do tend to attract them.

37:35But we've got to be careful because if you're not careful, you start attributing everything, just to strangeness, you know, you've got to stay object, you've got to stay, if you're an independent, you know, if you're an objective researcher. That's why when I found out that the human beings were making fantastic crop circles, I was really angry for about 10 minutes because I've wasted 10 years of my life thinking that the read, thinking that some really, really good ones can't be made by humans. But then I thought, well, if there is a human component to some crop circles, then hold on a minute, that's actually much more interesting than AT, you know. So it was not the discovery that was the breakthrough, the acceptance was the breakthrough, you know. So you have to stay objective, but I know what you're saying, but there's this tendency, if you're not careful, to attribute everything that's not that stuff that isn't there, you know.

39:10And to bend it other than normally the way you do it, if it would break. The first thing you've got to consider, if you're being objective, is that that is based upon a paper that was written back in the 90s, okay. There are certain elements of that paper. Again, with confirmation bias, you've got to look at all sides. When I was a believer, I took that stuff as being gospel. But when you start to really delve, there's elements that need to be investigated more. The first is this. At night, the crop is more moist than it is in the day, okay. So it's easier to bend over with boards because there's moisture there. And then in the daytime, because the sun's baking it, okay, it's a lot more brittle and it's more susceptible to breakage. Another point is that a crop circle is like a crime scene, it's like COC. It's literally a crime scene in the trespass and vandalism and criminal downhills been conducted.

40:17But also, it's CSI in that if you don't get to that thing quickly, it's like a crime scene. If you don't get there quickly, it's going to be contaminated. And the contamination in this point is people that get there before you. So if you see damage in a crop circle or a muddy footprints and like the crop circle is a bit of a mess, that's not to say that the circle was made badly. It means it's been, you know, abused with the visitors afterwards, okay. But the key thing is phototropism. Now phototropism means that if a plant is bent over and it doesn't break, then it's tendency, it's natural tendency because the plant is still alive. And the natural tendency is to bend towards the sunlight, okay. And that is what the farmers will tell you is really actually happening because it releases, there's a chemical reaction within the module.

41:19So people do hold that up as evidence, it can't be man-made, but you need to look really closely at all the papers. And I don't want to, you know, what can I say, I don't want to get into a war here, but there are big questions about that paper. Okay. They just look into the arguments against as well as the arguments for there. That paper has very big question marks over it. Lots of information in the UFO field seems to be gate kept in many ways in a sense that if you challenge some of the narratives, there's a lot of pushback from it. And that goes for a lot of these fringe topics that we're looking into, people have certain perspectives on it for many years. But the second new information comes along that might change what that fundamentally means. Some people don't want to admit that that's a possibility. So that's why we have the stagnance in this UFO field.

42:25Can I act with that? Okay. There was a scientific paper related to the bent not broken argument, and it was analyzed by an actual crop scientist who blew it apart. He said, there was no blind testing employed. There was no element of phototroposism. Phytotropism allowed for any basically blew the paper apart. Now when he told people about this, and he isn't a crop expert, that's his job. When he told people about this, what did they say? You're deep state. They come to you. Blah blah. So you can't win with this stuff. If you have a counter to an argument that you like, if it's an argument that you like, and it's been reinforced by something you like, some people just don't want to check the background. They said, okay, that backs up my argument. If there's a counter to it, and it's done by somebody who's an absolute bona fide expert, then, oh, deep state.

43:31Right. Disinformation. You know, I mean, it's not just crop circle. It's it's it's uphology. It's big foot. It's everything. It is. It's unfortunate. I can't see that. I can't see it ever changing. It is interesting because within the past, I'd say three to five years, there's been more interest in these topics than I've ever noticed in my lifetime. It's my hopes that the interest and awakening to the possibility of some of these things is going to eventually change that narrative to where we'll be able to learn more without gatekeepers in a sense. Now, I wanted to ask you how long does it normally take to complete one of these circles? It depends on its scale. So it depends on how big it is, how complicated it is. So you can get a basic one done with two or three people in a couple of hours.

44:31You've only got a window between 10 and three in the summer months. But you scale it up. So we've got this trope where people say, well, that that's two drunk blocks walking back from the pub. That's that's put to bed years ago. That was Doug and Dave that they were the pioneers with some of the circles. But after that, we had skill people coming in. There was a second wave and then the third wave was circle makers. And I've been in teams of 20 and they've not got it finished or they've just about got it finished or it looks finished. Then I've had to go and embellish it the following night. So it's just a question of scale, how big you want it to be, the bigger and the more complicated, the more people you're going to need. And sometimes it needs to be a two night event, although two night events to get really difficult to do now because of drones. Is there any other instances, either that you've experienced or others have experienced that you've heard about that include apparitions, lights, other kind of mysterious happenings surrounded by it.

45:43Hey, it's Toriespelling actress podcast host and mom back to school may add another layer of busy, but I don't cut corners when it comes to my family and nutrition. Good nutrition is necessary for learning activity and development and nutrient dense foods like protein pack, lean beef provide key nutrients to fuel the whole family. And then I'll be back to school California dot com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albert since Vaughn's and pavilion. Follow is coming, which means coffee cold season is almost here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite coffee and cold essentials now through September 29th shop in store and online to save on products like a leg. Holestrops musinx kickstart, zirtec allergy relief tablets, Tylenol liquid gels, one a day men's health and VIX DAK well and NICAL combo packs offer and September 29th restrictions apply offers may vary visit Albert since bonds or pavilions dot com for more details.

46:45This is Ashley Iconetti from the almost famous podcast you ever notice you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything. That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous we went to resort past calm there are hundreds of hotel resorts pools and spots and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort pool spa massage without booking an overnight stay and listen I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed so just go to resort past calm choose your resort choose your day luxury resort day passes start at just $25 once you post your daycation people are going to ask where you are good resort past calm slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resort past calm slash almost famous loads this loads but again we've got to be careful because we're living this is a very strange area okay and it could be contended that what people now see is you ap

48:09they call these things away with the fairies or nature spirits or fairy lights or spirits or what you call elementals. Yeah, yeah, portance. So this stuff has been here for hundreds and hundreds of years it's been reported they just call it different things. So I'm very conscious of attaching this stuff to crop circle is when it's not necessarily there because I've got friends that have fallen out of love with the crop circle is because of the politics we discussed and because of the factions and they just got sick of the actual subjects so what they do now is they they camp out on Adams Grove on that hill and then they just see the lot of people. They're going to see this stuff anyway whether there's crop circles or not and they say very interesting things like they say when we when we look at these things they tend to react to being observed so there'll be still in the sky and then as soon as you see and you pay attention to it it will start doing a little performance it's like really but it's really hard to explain.

49:20So you get that a new fact in UFO site as well so yeah but specifically there was a circle making team that I knew that were making this circle and during the curation process I'll go back a bit. The circle made and somebody I know it was a summer's day and they took their dog into the circle which they shouldn't have done but it was too hot to keep the dog in the car it was too hot it was even when the wind is open it was no way so they relax they took the dog into the circle and they said that the dog was a very happy dog and it was very lively and it was bounding about and they said it's suddenly let off this horrible squeal and they thought that there was it got some flint in its porno. It was a heart wrench and yeah it was horrible you know never want to hear an animal in distress. And then it was okay again and then it started to yell again then they realized that it was only distressed within the circle and when it came out the circle again it was fine again so it was distressed within the circle and then wow.

50:29Yeah but it turned out that they spoke to the circle maker that made it and he said when we were making that at the perimeter there was a black dog walking around the perimeter of the circle and he said we weren't sure if it was a predator or a protector but when we zeroed in on it it turned gray and just the dog. It turned gray and just appeared and there's another instance which I've recorded because I had to put this in there was a guy in a circle and he said that he knew there was another team member near him and he looked to his left and saw him or thought he saw him then he looked to his right and it was the actual team member so he looked to his left again and he said when I looked closely this thing was like I can only describe it as the mold of a man that hadn't been finished he said the face was like a fence's masks from the Olympics it was just like a trubans of a nose he said and it just looked like somebody had gone to make a human but not finished it and the account that I've got in there is that he swiped it with his board and the thing evaporated.

51:55Now with the couch like that I'm very aware of the old factor that you follow details is about I sometimes wonder with an account that's as crazy as that where there he's perceiving that's happened rather than it's actually happened I think that the way that this fellow man works and a lot of you follow just with me on this we're all together on this the phenomena has a neck or a weight of but I want to just drill into your psyche okay. A factor perception absolutely so I know that story is crazy okay but I've got no reason to do out the person that's how we that story because in all my interviews I've interviewed people that I trust or people that have out for me but people that have out for in the same way I never got make a crop circle the team I didn't know there could be journalists that could be you know so the person that told me that story. Even in his anonymity he was still scared to tell me because he says people didn't think I'm nuts I said well nobody knows who you are he said even with that it sounds nuts it's not the subject is nuts but I think I'm with you I think that some of the time with these really crazy accounts I think it's a question of an alteration of perception and that's not your idea is it that goes back to the day and the other factor.

53:18That's crazy this crazy accounts like that. We're on that with phenomena like this I consider the possibility that there is an ecosystem of some kind of intelligence is beyond what we can normally perceive that can reach out and interact with us in different ways maybe they have some have certain interest in humanity maybe some are malevolent some ways trying to trick humanity but I think there's a various. Ecosystem of these whether you want to call them spirits or interdimensional intelligence is whatever they are I don't think we have an understanding we may never have an understanding of what these really are they can affect our reality and what we call magic is a way to interact with them and you mentioned that these crop circles are essentially sigils. What would you say would be the purpose of getting humans to create these sigils would it be so that they can have a certain effect on our reality.

54:25I think with circles that used to be there used to be a lot in this area where I live now this don't hinge but there is a bit of a mundane war because the farmers are sick to death of them. It's not so much the damage that the circle makers make it's the damage that's made after was by the people that go in and try to pass some like a mess of their fields. But when they were more predominantly in these ancient sites there is an argument with a discussion within the crop circle teams that I spoke to and that some people felt that they were compelled to do this in the same way that Roy Neary was drawn to Devils Tower. They had a deep seated interest in their paranormal since they were children and they have gone to make within these Neolithic sites and they say that they have to a smaller extent. They say that they think that they have inherited the attitudes of their ancestors who built in stone.

55:30These are what are called crop circles of temporary temples. They are a theory or they are only there for a few days or a few weeks most. There are people that say that the act of having a sigil or a certain sacred pattern in a sacred area and also what I said to you before about the intent and the manifestation and the exertion they say that it amplifies the energy that is already there. And that our ancestors that made these chumuline, these ancient Neolithic monuments, perhaps they were markers to remind us how do we have forgotten and I think we have forgotten all this stuff. We have monuments here that took 100 years to build. Now why would you go to the trouble of undertaking a project that you know that only your grandchildren are going to see completing? It has got to be pretty important.

56:33So as I said to you before, a lot of the time the circle makers make these images and they don't know the relevance until the internet tells them. For a long time, there's been a lot of fear associated with the unexplained and high strangeness and in our modern age with the ease of access to the internet and social media and people having the ability to post their own theories and thoughts about the paranormal and their own experiences. There's a growing number of people that are adopting this nostic view of reality that we live in some kind of prison reality and all of these intelligences, spirits beyond our perception are here to feed off of us and manage us and essentially keep us reincarnated in this cycle so that they can continue to keep us imprisoned here. I think that's a very dark bleak perspective, but more and more researchers and colleagues are kind of adopting that view. It seems to be a very bleak view, but what are your thoughts on that emerging perspective of everything?

57:47Hey, it's Tori Spelling, actress, podcast host and mom. So back to school means the same thing to me as it does to you. Whatever's on that school supplies list, make sure you add protein, iron, zinc and the rest of the 10 essential nutrients found in beef. Sounds like homework, tastes like the best school lunch ever. Visit back to schoolcalifornia.com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more. Back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albert, since bonds and pavilion. Fall is coming, which means coffee cold season is almost here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite coffee and cold essentials now through September 29th shop in store and online to save on products like Allegra tablets, Holstrops, Musinx Kickstart, Zyrtec Allergy Relief tablets, Tylenol Liquid gels, one a day men's health and VIX DATE QUAL and NICAL COMBO PACKS. Offer ends September 29th, restrictions apply offers may vary visit Albert, since bonds or pavilions dot com for more details. This is Ashley Akinetti from the almost famous podcast. You ever notice you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything.

58:57That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous. We went to resort pass dot com. There are hundreds of hotel resorts, pools and spots and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort, pool spa massage without booking an overnight stay. And listen, I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed. So just go to resort pass dot com, choose your resort, choose your day, luxury resort day passes start at just $25. Once you post your daycation, people are going to ask where you are. Go to resort pass dot com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resort pass dot com slash almost famous. I think that where they may have it right is that this phenomenon has been with us since our inception.

1:00:01And what it tends to do is it manifests itself depending on where we are within our evolution. And this is why I said to you before our ancestors were seeing very light, you know, they were seeing spirits. We're seeing you IPs or we're seeing UFOs. It seems to be that with cultural tracking, which was like a concept, which was developed by by J.I. Whatever this is, maybe gives the impression that it's a T because it manifests itself depending on where we are in our evolution. Now, I think it's really interesting. I think it's really interesting as a geophonologist that where's the Nordics from the 50s? It's like trends and fashions. And they seem to, you know, where's the Nordics people are saying the grays now are just put something was saying the grays are just an interpretation of pre mantisism. You know, the phenomenon changes as fashions and it's the same with paranormality as well. There's there's paranormality from the 1920s that isn't there anymore. It seems to be tracking us. You understand? Yes.

1:01:07It does kind of time with that theory because if it manifests as ET and it isn't ET because I use it. If you showed a spaceship to him with the eighth, he's not going to, you know, he's not going to say that that's a sleep spatial. Or he's going to say that's, you know, that's the devil. It just tracks where we are. Yeah. I think on top of that, it also deals with our perception, the way we view things where we're at personally with our mental, spiritual and emotional states, the phenomenon meets us there. Whether we're fearful or not or whether we are in a certain negative emotional state, that is how we're going to perceive what we're interacting with. And it'll also dictate future interactions and how we perceive the phenomenon as a whole. Absolutely right. Absolutely right. And with the crop circle phenomenon, I'm sorry to say this again, but I've got to say it once more.

1:02:11I'm really my lane on this. I know I spoke about the bent not broken nodules, etc. It's kind of not my area of expertise. I want to stay in my lane. I advise your listeners to go and make your own researches on this because it's not really my lane. And this subject, as you know, is populated by too many people who talk about things that are outside of their area of expertise. I don't want to be that guy. Okay. What I'm saying is that I think that the synchronicity and the interconnectivity elements of this phenomenon with human crop circles are strong enough to be investigated in isolation, no matter what you think about the rest of the crop circles. But I do think with with you, follow, with like you said before, with all these areas that are converging now, we've got one thing in common with you, follow, with all of it. And that is it's coming down. We've got all these researchers now and it's coming down to one thing. And that's human consciousness. It's human consciousness. It's interconnectivity. It's how the phenomenon interacts with us.

1:03:23I don't know in the book the only thing I couldn't get round to actually discovering in the book, I tried and tried. I'm not sure if we are interacting with with each other through the shell drake species field or through like a Google cloud, you know, a super natural Google cloud or if there's something else at play. That's the only thing I don't know. I sure hope it's the first one. In other words, it could be all aspects of our own consciousness archetypes, imaginal aggregors that we have created that may have in a sense taken on a life of their own in these extra dimensional realms and can then turn and interact with us in some way, right? Or they're real. We are interpreting them based on where we are in our revolution. I think there's I think there's enough there for both arguments, but you see, there's an important point here that there's another crop circle story that illustrates this.

1:04:24There was a team and they could they've done the design and one one member said, I want a big circle in that I want I want to I want to round it off. I want it. I want to close the thing off and the rest of the team said, no, we like it open. We like it, not resulted. It's like more of a quirky thing. They had an argument about it. They were 50 50 and in the end, they didn't do it. And the next day they went to the circle and that extra component was in was in was in the circle. It was that extra combat was part of the circle, but they hadn't made it. Okay. Now there's an argument to say another team could have come in afterwards. I doubt that very much because the sun was coming up on the left of the field, but it's that whole thing. The fact that it was discussed and then turned into a concept meant that it was then real in a sense, you know, and then you know that they somebody said, well, you will somebody said, because you will do on paper, you've manifested it into the fields and we don't know who did that. So I can't with some of those additions, I certainly can't explain it. And then that really does turn me into looking at, you know, is there something else, you know,

1:05:45are there often crop circles appearing still these days? Yeah, we had about 25 this year. Oh, wow. But the thing with the thing with the circle is you can look at circles and you can say, it's like Banksy or an artist, you can say, I've got a pretty good idea who did that because it's got that trademark in there. It's like a guitarist. It's that riff. Okay. I know I know he's played that riff. And either it's that guy or somebody else who's worked under him and they've gone and formed their own teams and then they're using that trope until they design their own. So I can't but not I've not made a circle for 10 years. Okay. So I really am out of the loop now. And as I said, you're offline. I'm a journalist and I'm an author and I was never in the premier league of circle makers. My mind, my mind were pretty basic. Okay.

1:06:49But I've worked with a couple of the best of the best, but it just seemed that I was perfectly placed to write this, but because I had the tools because I'm a published author anyway. And the and the circle, a few circle makers said to me, we think you're the guy to do this because our voice really hasn't been heard. And we think that you're the guy to articulate it because apart from we've got that there's a book just come out written by Andrew Perker called connecting with the crop circle phenomena or something. And we've got a resource called circle makers TV on YouTube. And we've got another site called the croppy. And in the croppy, there's a series called circle maker speak where they talk about every element of circle making. But our voice really hasn't been heard up until now, you know, this like a soft disclosure going on there where we're going to say, and I'm very careful not to not not to say which which circles. I've been involved with because I don't want to dispel the magic. It's not it's not for me to to interrupt your journey and say, well, that one was manmade or that one was wasn't you know.

1:07:59Yeah. Well, I love it, man. Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. Last few minutes, I'd love to get your thoughts on where we're at with UFO disclosure, what's been coming out from our own government and these quote unquote whistleblowers. The information that has come out about possible non human biologics in our possession and reverse engineered craft and our involvement with it. Any thoughts on any of it. Yeah, I'm afraid it's pessimistic and that's because what the optimist, the plus side is this you and I, I've been like deeply involved in this subject since the 80s and 90s and whereas my normal friends used to call me, used to call me mad. Now they go, you know, maybe there is something to you. You're 30 years too, like, you know, but where I am with it is I saw, I saw a jet of a letter in 1992 and that's 34 years ago.

1:09:03And we were having that discussion, we were having this discussion then and VA said, not in our lifetime, the public can't handle it. The public aren't aren't ready. And unfortunately, I think we're in the same place now. I don't think there's enough awakened or open mind in people in the world yet. That's where I am. Sorry. Could it be possible that we just haven't reached a level of consciousness evolution and understanding to fathom what we are really dealing with. We wouldn't have a way to explain it either way. J. J. Alan Hainek, paraphrasing said, even if we had the answer, we don't know what we're looking at. We're not advanced enough. And I think that is connected to spirituality, to be honest. I think it's connected to where you are spiritually. I think spirituality and connectivity is a key to a lot of this. It depends on how mature how mature you are.

1:10:03Spiritually, I think. We're all on one. Yes, sir. D, this was fantastic before we let you remind the audience how they can pick up the book. Oh, yeah, forgot about that. It's called it can't be people. Voices from the in the circle. And the reason why I called it can't be people was the first crop circle I've walked in that was really complicated. I just look around and went this can't be people. So that's what that's why I called it that. But as I said, you. I'm going to be honest to the. I'm backed up with other projects now. I'm leaving the subject next week. I hope that demonstrates to you more than anything that I'm not one of these grifter types that is looking to go on the lecture. I'm out. Okay, I've got other projects on backed up. This is taking a lot of time. But the one message you want to get across to your listeners is. Something going on. Okay. And if you want a section that away from your other beliefs, that's fine.

1:11:03But there are human made circles here that are worthy of investigation in their own right. And you can get the book on. Yeah, Amazon everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much. I'd love to speak again in the future if you're ever going to touch on these strange topics again. We'd love to have you back. Yeah, until next time everyone have an excellent evening. We will talk again tomorrow. See you all then. Watch doors of perception now on Amazon Prime. Are you and your family prepared for an emergency? Maybe the fake alien invasion. Now is the time to prepare yourself and your family for any event. Check out prep starts now. Their mission is to provide high quality preparedness products that empower individuals and families to be ready for any situation. They're committed to delivering reliable, trusted gear to ensure your safety, security and peace of mind in times of need.

1:12:05Their product selection is carefully curated to provide you with the essential gear you need to stay prepared. From emergency kits to tactical tools, every item is chosen for its reliability and practicality. Prep starts now understands the importance of family and their goal is to equip you with everything you need to build a solid plan for your family's preparedness. In today's ever changing world, being prepared is more important than ever. And prep starts now is here to help you and your family stay ready with quality products and practical guidance. Use the link in the description and get 15% off your order. We live in an incredible age of information. More and more we're discovering that we've been lied to and misled about much of our human history. Core Hughes is providing profound revelations about World War I, World War II, the JFK assassination, Martin Luther King's assassination and much, much more on his new substack Bloody History.

1:13:15Subscribe now for as little as $5 monthly. Just click that link right in the description to get started now and learn about our true history. Hello friends, if you're looking to start your therapeutic microdosing journey, but don't know where to start, especially when looking for the highest quality ingredients, including new tropics, and what you'd expect from a true microdose capsule. Check out our friends at Brain Supreme. They offer the absolute highest quality ingredients so you can start your microdosing journey knowing that you're getting top notch ingredients. To find out more, visit their website using that link right in the description and you can get 15% off your entire order. Hey, it's Tories Belling with Back to School season here. The focus at my house has shifted to classes, assignments, and after school activities and good nutrition is especially important.

1:14:16Lean Weep is packed with protein, iron, zinc, and other essential nutrients that help kids thrive in the classroom and stay energized throughout the day. Visit back to schoolcalifornia.com for money saving offers on beef delicious recipes and more back to school nutrition starts with back to school California dot com. Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albert since bonds and pavilions. Follow is coming, which means cough and cold season is almost here. Get ahead by stocking up on all your favorite cough and cold essentials now through September 29th. Shop in store and online to save on products like Allegra tablets, Halls drops, Musin X Kickstart, Zyrtec allergy relief tablets, Tylenol liquid gels, one a day men's health and VIX DAKOLE and NICLE combo packs.

1:15:31I'm going to go to the gym and have a massage without booking an overnight stay and listen, I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed. So just go to resort pass dot com, choose your resort, choose your day, luxury, resort, day passes start at just $25. If you post your daycation, people are going to ask where you are. Go to resort pass dot com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almost famous at resort pass dot com slash almost famous.