Conversation With Ken Daniels

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Genius of adjusting the blue line, Ken Dales, Ken, I got to apologize when I said that

yesterday.

I had no idea that you've been preaching this and pushing this for a while now.

So credit to you, snaps to you because I think this could totally change the game in a simple

small tweak for the better.

You're the one we've had it tried.

I've been on this now for four years.

I remember sitting in the media room with Ken Holland, then general manager of the Epin

to Noilers and he said, that's a good idea.

That's a good idea.

I bring it to committee and he did.

He was told by those higher ups within the league that so many leagues behind us follow

us.

It's so much to change and I'm thinking, well, I don't know if they're doing video reviews

for Pee Weehawke.

But I'm sure the lineman will adapt where the puck comes in over the line.

So that essay that you put out, which I did well over a year ago now and we ran it on

our broadcast, I did get a call from the league about it.

And they saw some points in it, but they also felt that the lineman positioning would

have to change.

So then I went over the course of the last year and a half, not to a ton of lineman.

Maybe spoke to five and ten and they said, that doesn't matter.

We can change that to see the outside, not a big deal and so can all those coming up

and learning.

They can all figure it out.

But then the thing that really struck me, which we argued about kindly, because I have

an affinity for refs.

I was referring when Jeff Petrie was buying an Orchard Lake St. Mary's back in 2005.

So I've been a long time official so I get how hard it is.

But what they said to me was that the players would cheat even more, meaning jump the

line even more.

And I asked a lot of players about it.

They said, we don't think that way.

You're looking, they'll learn, they'll adapt.

My point of this whole thing is, as you guys know, is two, four letter words, buzz kill.

In the building, keep it alive.

I could have one of my rare, great calls, not all good, but maybe I get one, and then

it's gone.

And the players feel the same way.

And this is nothing to do as you show Johnny about Patrick Haynes, Gohler being a homer

the other night.

We saw it.

Just every time I see it.

And when we did that essay that you so graciously put out once again to bring it back

to life, we produced a night, Brian Henry.

We looked at 25 video reviews under this rule.

21 of them wouldn't even have gone to review because it would have been on site.

That's the point.

It wouldn't even have slowed the game down.

There were some that were close and there will still be some that were close.

But it'll change your toggling of the tape and go and wait and won't happen as much.

Yeah, I can't.

I got to say this.

I know we haven't met before.

I was the video guy in Arizona for over 20 years.

So a couple of things.

First of all, we, the Arizona Kyrie's were fortunate enough to play in the playoffs a few

times against a Detroit Red Wing team with the Datsukin Zetterberg.

It did not go well for the Kyrie, so I don't love the logo, sorry, but as a video guy,

I do appreciate your, your stance on this because, because I think right now, having

the game being decided by, and no offense to video guys, because I was one, but don't

put it in our hands, man, that I don't, don't stop the game for three to five minutes for

us.

Like, let's keep playing hockey.

Let's make the offensive zone bigger.

Let's give the offensive players more room to work with.

So I think this is brilliant.

I'm on your side.

You, if you need the video guy, Union behind you on board and I'll get the, I'll get the

email sent today.

I do want to switch gears.

This is a Detroit Red Wing team that we've talked about year after year is being put in

that group with the Buffalo Sabers and the Ottawa Senators.

They're through the rebuilds.

They're part of the eyes or plan.

This team is ready to start winning.

What happens if this team doesn't make the playoffs this season?

Well, that's a loaded question.

What happens from the fan bases?

There's going to be even more angst in there is because this was a season when, you know,

the end of January and they were tied January 24th.

The thing for a top Eastern conference.

So certainly there was hope and then everybody at that time, we're saying March hasn't arrived

yet.

And although Todd McClellan will say forget March and he's right about that two thirds

of March.

The players are gone from a couple of years ago into the great comeback and then lost

in the tie break when Washington scored in the empty net.

And then last season two, there's a third of the roster that's been changed over.

Will it be more change over?

I'm sure there will be if the Red Wings don't get in.

So there is pressure for sure.

As for changes up above, I mean, who knows, I don't know what's going to happen there.

This team's done a great job of drafting.

As for sure, I don't believe it's as deep as probably they'd like it to be and that you

can see happen with Dylan Larkin who also went down in March a couple of years back to

with an injury.

So that's certainly hurt the cause of missing Dylan Larkin for seven games, hurts.

And there was the blowing game, you know, in Florida, you're up three, two with 91 seconds

left.

Just on mistakes, that's inexcusable, but there is a lot of youth on that team and

mistakes happen, but it's good youth going forward, but missing the playoffs again won't

sit well.

What is the Red Wings and March thing I keep hearing about?

Like someone wrote it in our chat yesterday, is March just like the most detrimental month

for them or something?

I can have it for you here.

They are the last five seasons in March as much as I hate to say.

And they're four, five into this year, only a minus one goal differential, let me say,

because five seasons ago in March, they were minus 29, but a different ease and not a

COVID times.

But in March, the last five seasons, 1940, one and eight, yeah, that's not good.

Yeah.

Outscored 251 to 172.

But you know what?

That's where I always say, you know, guys say we haven't won in this building or that building

and then five years ago and having one cent, they're different players every year.

I don't think the players are thinking about March, Todd McCollins tried to get them out

of that.

You know, this is March for this team, forget the past and you do and you don't overcome

it until you overcome it, right?

So maybe this is the overcomer.

You haven't won a cup, do you win a cup?

Yeah.

I think you're right.

But I do think it's probably more evident to the fan base because they've read it.

They've seen the articles.

They don't all here.

We go again.

It's another margin.

I don't think it's probably that way in the room.

I think the biggest thing you've already mentioned in the inside the room and on the

ice is Dylan Larkin and his evolution to say evolution is not really fair because he's

been Dylan Larkin his entire career, but I think the Olympics and the way he helped lead

that group.

I don't care if he's got a letter in the sweater or not leading that group through that

war.

And now to see what he's been doing in Detroit, do you think that his injury was a bigger

factor than being March for the Detroit Red Rings?

Oh, there's no doubt about it was.

Yeah.

Dylan drives this team and I didn't know how much of a leader like I don't Patrick Kane

will speak up in the room.

And now you got David Peron so the room got a whole lot of noise here and when he was

here before.

But I didn't realize how much of a voice Dylan Larkin was until you hear the likes of

Jack Hughes talk about him and Brady Kitschak and Matthew Kitschak and Tage Thompson whom

he was a linemate with in Milan and they'll meet each other in Buffalo and what a big game

this is tomorrow night.

So I didn't realize how much of a presence Dylan was in the room because I'd asked the

guys in the past yet Dylan speaks when he needs to.

But amongst the group that he was with to still have that voice and be that respected

to me, that says a lot about Dylan Larkin.

Tomorrow night, you mentioned it Red Rings at Buffalo pretty much, you know, every game

here on out has to be game seven for Detroit.

I feel like this is where you shine as well, Ken, right?

I remember was it the Lucas Raymond game last year?

Was that two years ago where Raymond tied it?

Want to know T?

Is that two years ago?

Two years, two years ago, but that was against Montreal.

That was Montreal.

That game.

And that was one of the most electrifying games there is.

But this is when like I get giddy listening to you on the broadcast, right?

Because you understand the magnitude of the moment right now with the Red Rings being

just one point back and I got asked you look as the broadcaster, you know, you don't have

control on the game.

So are you more nervous or are you more excited for, you know, these last 10 plus games

or whatnot?

Not nervous.

I get nervous when I don't do the game.

Like I didn't do the Boston game and I went down before the game and I'm talking with

Ray and Sean McDonough and then I'm watching the game up in the press box with my producer.

That's when I get more nervous because you're not just into the game.

I have nothing to do with the game regardless.

That's where they say, well, the announcer, James, he jinxed it really.

I have any control over that game.

I don't stop that bullshit.

It's ridiculous.

So I get nervous watching for a game.

No, we're just anxious to get going.

I don't get nervous.

I heard Mike Jericho talk about that recently and they asked him on Cameron's trick and

they were asking Mike, you know, do you get nervous and he said, no, it's just anxious

at the anticipation.

This is a guy called the Super Bowl who knew 150 million people or whatever are watching

that game.

So it's not nerves.

It's excitement for the team and anxious and you hope the bus right after the game

to the airport and the plane is going to be fun and the food will taste better.

You know, that's the main thing.

You want the team to do well.

I do believe in people can say, you know, Mick and I have been together now 29 seasons

and you talk about broadcasts and homers.

I really don't believe we're homers.

I really don't because I heard Mick the other night and that team wouldn't like it and

this team wouldn't and you can call out players in an okay way without putting them down

because you wouldn't like that done to yourself either.

But you can say a player is having a bad game without saying what an awful player.

And so I think I think we have a tendency to call it like it is.

And if the Red Wings are coming, you know, and not well and they they didn't push well

against Ottawa and we basically said it the other night in a game that they had to have.

And if it's like that in Buffalo, you just call it like it is.

You know, hope the team wins because overall it's better.

It's better than the fan base.

It's better for us.

And we get to call playoff hockey and as a regional broadcast, we want to keep calling

playoff hockey and this may be the last year we ever get it.

If the networks take all the games and we hope that's not the case because I think fans

and all the local fan bases want their local broadcast teams calling the game or at least

side by side in the first round and have a choice.

I don't know how long that's going to continue.

Well, we'd like to get in this year just in case it's our last.

I'm going to be honest.

I can't if I can't quick just just one quick follow up.

Sorry, sorry, PD, but like you said that you don't, you know, consider yourself a

homer.

I prefer the homers.

I'm watching the red wings now because the red wings down the stretch have a whole lot

more to play for than the Buffalo savers.

So when I watch that game tomorrow night, I want to feel what the red wings fans are

feeling.

I want the homer.

You know, that's that's why I'm tuning into Fandall sports now.

So thank you, Fandall sports net, we're soon to be called Detroit sports net, okay?

Let's get that straight.

Yeah.

But I, yes, I'm with you on the homer's side.

Oh, trust me.

When Tate, think of me.

So think of me.

Okay.

I will, Johnny, you know, when Tate Thompson scores a goal in Dylan Larkin scores a

goal, I think the decibel level is a heck of a lot higher, but I also know.

And Mickey and I talk about this and Mickey says that's what he admires about me.

And this may be the only thing is that when another team scores, you don't just hear

scores.

You got to give it its due.

It's not the same level, but you don't disrespect the game of hockey.

And if they're winning the game with three seconds left, you're still excited, but you

know if the red wings would be a decibel level times 20.

So you don't disrespect the game.

You'll get the homerism, but we're not at least I don't.

Mickey sometimes does where I have to argue with him when he looks at a hooking penalty

on the gloves.

They've been calling a hook on the gloves now for 10 years.

You better get with it.

And he'll say, it's not like I have to like it.

I said, right, you don't, but you better get with it because that's what they're calling.

And again, it's my affinity for the referees.

So I admire the job they do.

I can't, I got to ask you this because you mentioned it to 29 years with you and Mickey.

And I think people that watch a lot of hockey and I think that's why you need the regional

sports networks in the playoffs because you know the team better than anybody than and

no offense to national broadcasters, they don't see the team.

They're not around the team.

They're not with the team.

So I think that's part of it.

And I do think your family to Detroit Red Wings fans for nearly three decades.

My question though, it's hard.

I don't know if people understand the job you do and how difficult it is, meaning the

research and the studies and you're sitting on the plane in the dark with your little

light on filling a roster sheet.

And it's hard.

It's really hard work.

If you're not prepared, you can't do your job.

Are you tired?

Like, I think of that 82 game schedule.

It is daunting.

It is so hard.

And once you start to stop, are you ever thinking like, what the heck am I doing?

I could be sitting on a lake summer fishing.

I've got all, first of all, I'm not a fisherman.

I am a golfer.

Wish I were better at it, but I'm getting there.

So I have all summer, I have all summer to do that.

And as we spoke of the month of March, the last five seasons, and we had a great run,

and I was happy to be for a long time a part of that 25-year playoff run.

It came here in 1997.

It started before I arrived, but boy, it was great.

And as getting a Stanley Cup the first year, as Mickey said, boy, you were spoiled.

And I said, keep spoiling me.

So there were three cup rings, and one hasn't happened since I weighed.

So having all summer off, I don't get tired.

I love it.

If I weren't doing this, I'd be watching hockey.

You know, I've called more than including playoffs and regular season and pre-season

red wing games, about 2,300, 2,400, I don't know, summer about that.

I'll get to 2,000 regular season next season at some point.

And overall, with Hockey Night in Canada before in the Leafs, I'd probably an NBC games.

And I'd probably called close to 2,900, 2,800 hockey games.

But I'd be watching them.

I must have watched 20,000 in my life.

And watching since age 8, the last year the Toronto Maple Leaf won the Stanley Cup in 1967.

So I love it.

I never get tired.

I can work out of the road.

We have great people.

It's camaraderie.

You know, when players say they retired, what they miss most is the room.

If I leave this game at some point in time, and I will down the road, we hope it's a long

walk down that road yet.

I'll miss the camaraderie.

Our group.

I'm going to miss those people who are losing their jobs from Fandole.

And we hope many will stay when the Red Wings take over this, and we're working through

that now.

And I think it'll be a nice transition.

But there's going to be some people on the way out.

And it's those people I'm going to miss.

Not as many people travel as they used to, and it's that that I miss on the road.

So tired?

No.

To get on a team plane where they treat us so well and drive to the airport, park your

car, and walk right on.

Hey, I've seen the lineups now at TSA.

I mean, come on.

It's nothing to be tired about.

I love it.

All summer off and during the summer, I'm listening to podcasts, catching up, reading

books.

I love the research.

If I spend probably watching the game the night before and another six hours during

the day to do one game, it's fun for me and talk to other broadcasters calling them

or coaches and getting the goods.

Whatever you use lately, you know, some of the stuff we get on our air, it's an old Mike

Babcock line.

He said, this game's all about all about our and do.

And I said, research and development.

He said, no, rob and do.

R&D is rob and do.

That's what it is.

So we take from everybody around the league and I love it or stories that you hear from

someone, you go flush out, you go into the room, you meet the players, never get tired

of that.

Ken, you are the best.

I want to ask you one more.

And just to kind of like bring it back to what we originally were talking about with

this blue line rule before I let you go because there still is a lot of confusion about

like what we're talking about here.

We are trying to limit reviews, right?

Like I think about earlier in the year when Patrick Kane had his American point setting

goal taken away for an offside challenge, that's a huge moment.

And I honestly, when I first said it yesterday, I wasn't even like really thinking about the

broadcast.

I wasn't thinking about the broadcast.

I wasn't.

And like you have a lot of big moments that could be taken away by review, but to be

clear, when you said, what was it, 21 of 25 reviews would have been good goals.

Like that's what I want to make clear is when we see an offside challenge, it's usually

the two feet being in the white before the puck gets in the white, but the puck breaks

the plane of the blue.

So once the puck breaks the plane of the blue, that would be good.

And I just wanted you to make that clear that we're just talking about the challenges

and not like the offside rule itself.

Well, you would be changing the language in the offside rule, right?

From leading edge to outside edge keeps his own size the same.

And I saw somebody comment while offensive's own time changes, who gives a crap?

Yeah.

Offensive's own time.

Really?

I don't care whatever.

So anyway, it's it's yes, you can still be don't forget before the puck ever hits

the blue line now.

A player can still be ahead of the puck on the blue line, a foot in the offensive's own.

As long as his foot's still in contact with the blue, that doesn't change.

He can still be ahead of the play waiting for a pass, puck escape on the blue line, the

other skate in the offensive's own, but still has to wait for the puck.

But now when the puck hits the outside edge of the blue line, even a little bit of the

puck and the lines man sees it, the puck hits the edge, he gives one of these.

The player can go the player now goes, but now you're waiting till the puck comes all

the way over the blue line to see if he left early.

Now they're saying the players will cheat even more.

Let's see, give it a try, see how many you go, but the ones that we did and reviewed for

this essay, all but for them, the puck when it hit the outside of the blue line, taking

that rule into play would have never gone to review.

Now some may go still go to review and say it was close, did it hit the the edge of the

blue line was the puck there before he left?

Sure.

I'm not saying there's not going to be reviews, but in many cases, there just won't be

just like Patrick Keynes the other night and you posted this and I, and we meant Mickey

mentioned again, there's the Ken Daniels rule and he did the illustrator on the line there.

It would have never gone to review because yes, came fault was the offside, sure he was

under this rule, but the puck hit the edge, the outside edge while his skate was still

in contact with the line, then he was in the zone, then the puck came over.

Now you're toggling to see where was the skate where the puck came over by that.

I'm sure you're still going to as you know with being in the video room and I've spoken

our video guys and other video guys doing all around the league, they're with you on

that by the way.

They like it.

Would it take some time to get used to sure?

Would you have to try the American hockey league for a short, but I think the basketball

three point line went a long time in the NBA before college ever adopted.

There's leagues that are following not everyone's following the NFL kickoff rule.

Now maybe at some point they will, it's how things change, you know, it's the NHL is

the never hungry league, but they don't have an appetite for change.

And we could talk about that with player safety and hits from behind and this and that.

Now that is a collectively bargain thing and it's a little bit different.

Many of us would like to see more suspensions.

We've got a podcast dropping with Patrick Kane coming up and he talks just about that.

They should be harder on it.

You know, so there's lots of things that can change and no things take time.

They talk about three on three and over and back.

How would you ever do that to make three on three better?

That was a great invention from Ken Holland.

So Ken Holland may have made some deals that I don't love and we argue about all the time

or draft picks that I don't love that argue with Ken all the time, but I know Ken Holland

and Mark how they sat there that night and his son Brad and they all loved my offside

thing, but the league doesn't.

It's okay.

It's their league.

But you got to love the passion of those like me or you guys who have ideas, try to make

it better.

Maybe it doesn't, but give it a try.

I'm going to promise I will be pushing the Ken Daniels rule from here on out.

And it'll be only the Ken Daniels rule.

I promise you that.

Okay.

So the legal hate me.

The legal hate me even more.

Go ahead.

Okay.

If you want to be under my name, we can make it under my name, but I think you can have

a yours.

Let me tell you this one thing.

Colin Campbell, we went to the broadcast meetings years ago because of the Matthew Shane

offside when his with Colorado against Nashville right and we all know about that.

When the video review came in, Colin Campbell and I love him did come into the room to all

the broadcasters there and network exams and he says, exact and he said, you guys have

no idea what you're doing here and opening up this can of works.

I'm here to tell you, you're not going to like what's coming out of this.

You know, he knew way back then and he was right.

Yeah.

So here we are.

Well, yeah.

Thank you so much for your time.

This morning, Ken.

Seriously.

Like, I love you.

Like you're the best.

Good luck tomorrow night.

Good luck for the red wings on their on their push here to make the playoffs.

We hope you get in.

We want to hear you call playoff games.

PD, I'll give you like a final word here if you want to send Ken off.

No, I'm just impressed by Ken and I talked to what from the video guy perspective.

One, I love the, the Ken Daniels rule and the league sat us all down when they brought

in this and said, Gary Bettman said to the video, guys, don't make the call unless it's

dead, effing wrong.

And he was, he was talking about those that are three feet offside, not a quarter of an

inch like it's become now.

That wasn't the intent of their social Ken.

I'm with you.

I'm the Ken Daniels rule.

Let's put it in tomorrow and I just want to truly say from somebody that watches a lot

of hockey games, you have an outstanding crew that you're a fun guy to listen to.

You understand the game and I think I'm excited to see this Detroit Red Wing team because

I think they're ready.

I think they play fast.

I think they're a fun team to watch.

I think they played today's hockey.

I'm excited to see them make the playoffs and I'm excited to hear you call them.

Thank you to both and I think the leagues better with Buffalo and Detroit and the playoffs.

Yeah.

Thank you, Ken.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Looking for soccer analysis, more knowing than a Carlo Ancelotti eyebrow raise with the

World Cup around the corner, join me, Max Rushton and the Guardians expert soccer journalists

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Howdy, Howdy Ho and welcome to Fantasy Fanfellas.

I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast and your resident lover of all

things Sanderson.

And I'm Steven, your bookish internet goofball, but you can call me the smash daddy.

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic, Mistborn.

But here's the catch.

Steven here has not read Mistborn before.

That's right.

Hey, hey, so each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chip.

And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers and Steven will

even try to guess what's next.

Spoiler alert?

He'll be wrong.

News flash.

I'm never wrong.

Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy Fanfellas wherever you get

your podcasts.

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