Conversation With Michael Russo

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For taking the time this morning and joining us

and the first question I want to ask you,

I actually just got a tweet from J. W. B. S.,

a big Carolina Hurricanes fan and he wants to know

and I want to know and I think a lot of people want to know

about Eric Tolstoy going to bat for the players.

It seemed like that was a big part of the story

that you wrote yesterday for the athletic

and just kind of wondering if you can dive deeper into that.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that was a double-byline story of a peer

and that was a lot of peers reporting.

But Eric Tolstoy, you know, I think during conversation

with the league on Rule 48, which is headshots,

I think took issue with the belief out there

that there could be unavoidable headshots.

You know, there's belief inside the league

that if you're 6x and you're hitting Matt Zuckerello

that there's just no offense Suzuki.

You know, that you're going to have some headshot at times

and I think that Eric and Eric, you know,

if he is wants to, could speak for himself.

I think just took issue and felt like the standard

is slipping a little bit here and Gary Vettman,

you know, spouted back at him.

I don't think it was like a screaming match.

First of all, I can't even imagine Eric doing that.

Eric is so level-headed and measured

and everything that he says.

And it was on, you know, the way it works

in those meetings is you essentially raise your hand

and you turn on your mic.

And I don't think there was any yelling back and forth.

But I think Gary basically said to him,

we all end the illusion, you know,

he was looting that it was Tom Dundin.

He basically said, we all know why you're bringing this up.

So that was it.

And then he also kind of joined in when Pafferbeak,

you know, I think there is a real belief out there

that the standard on goalie interference is slipping.

Last year, they brought all of us into that meeting hall

where the GMs meet and showed us the same videos

that the GM saw on goalie interference.

And, you know, I think Colby could probably speak to this

a little bit, you know, being the position that he used to play.

But I do think that, you know,

that what they showed us was that if you go into the crease

on your own volition and make contact with the goalie,

that that's on you and that the goal is going to be disallowed.

And all of a sudden, you had that incident the other day

with Stutzler going into the crease against Anaheim

and I think there's a belief there that that, you know,

now the league is deciding whether or not a goalie

could have made the save with that contact and allowed the goal.

And I think there's a lot of people that felt that goal

should have been disallowed.

How often does it get contentious with Gary Bettman

in these meetings?

Is this, and I am glad that you're sort of clarifying this a little

because like when I read it, I'm sitting there thinking like,

ooh, soap opera, like screaming match amongst the GMs.

And I kind of thought the same thing.

Like, God, Eric Tolsky does not seem like the likely candidate

to do that.

Although, listen, he has surprised me in all good ways

since he's become a general manager.

So I, you never know.

But, you know, it does strike me as, look,

a lot of big egos, a lot of strong,

wild, opinionated people.

You put them all in a room.

You're going to have disagreements.

But I don't know.

Like, it just feels like they're all usually on the same team

in a way other than during suspension times.

So is it normal to have sort of a,

things come out of the meeting where again,

maybe they weren't yelling at each other,

but there's some discomfort,

I would say, between GMs and between the commissioner

of the National Hockey League who's been there forever.

Yeah, I mean, it is funny because Gary, you know,

he could be intimidating.

And a lot of these GMs don't want to go up against him.

And so I think it says something that Eric was willing to,

at least, speak his mind there and go to bat for NHL players as a whole

and probably his own players on his team.

But I don't think he gets to be shouting matches very often.

I do think Pat Rebek was the one that was probably the most testy

when it came to what happened last week in the Ottawa game.

But, you know, I think what it does speak to

is that Eric Tolsky is, you know, confident in his own beliefs

and his own skin, you know, for a young-ish GM

to, you know, stand up for himself and the league

and players as a whole and the issue that he sees

that is something that Gary, especially headshots,

is very sensitive to.

I think it says a lot about his confidence level

because even the most vocal, you know, opinionate GMs,

a lot of times don't speak up in those meetings

because they feel like it's sort of fruitless.

You know, Gary runs the show.

There's no doubt about it.

Everybody knows it.

You know, even with the, with the owners,

which I'm always fascinated by because technically they're his boss.

And yeah.

It's really the most finite.

Like, to me, it's one of the most fascinating dynamics in all of sports

when the commissioner who is essentially hired by the owners

is essentially finding these guys and, you know,

the playoff format is one that is a perfect example.

Like, the fact that the owners don't button up to me

what is an obvious issue that all fans

and most teams don't agree with says everything.

I mean, Gary is literally the lone voice on this

and he's deciding something that is costing teams money

in my opinion.

Well, I will say, I know the conversation

was how, like, Gary wants the NHL to have the best first round.

And I kind of agree that we do.

Like, we, we do have the best first round out of, out of, you know,

the NBA, I think a lot of them result in a sweep.

The MLB, you know, it's like a best of three in the wildcard round football.

You know, I, football, football, football will always be a great first round,

no matter what.

But hockey, like the first round, you know, you do get game sixes, game sevens

and you get a lot of them some years.

So it is great.

But on the other hand, like, I don't want it.

I don't want.

I'm sure you don't want it, especially this year,

Bruce with a good Minnesota is.

And honestly, the whole point was to create more rivalries.

But now, like, I'm looking at the Rangers and Devils.

They didn't play for the first time until two weeks ago this season.

And I feel like, you know, 10 years ago, those in division,

divisional rivals used to play each other six times in the regular season.

You know, that's where it should go.

So I am, yeah, I am so tired of the rivalry BS.

I mean, you know, for that rationale, then the US and Canada should have

met in the quarter finals at the Olympics.

I mean, that isn't seen.

Yeah.

No, it's completely dumb.

And this whole thing, like, first of all, I think no matter what,

to your point on the NBA, in the NHL, I think that you,

be careful what you wish for.

I mean, just because Minnesota might play Utah in the first round,

whatever it would be, doesn't mean anything.

Utah, at one is shown they could beat Minnesota.

But the point is, is that anybody in this league can beat anybody

on any given night.

But to go through an 82 game season where most teams have

the exact same schedule.

I mean, you're inside a division right now where you're,

there are some games, some teams you're playing three times and some teams you're

playing for, which is the exact number of games you're playing on the other

side of your conference.

So everybody is playing the same schedule.

This isn't like when I started the cover of those league in the 90s,

where you played six, eight times inside your division.

So the division format makes no sense to me.

It's money.

It's, it's, they have, they have analytics that show them that most eyeballs

are on the league in the, in the first rounds of the playoffs.

At the athletic, I see that in my numbers.

As the, as the playoffs go on and on, we get less and less reads because for some

reason, NHL fans are extremely provincial.

They want to read and care about their team.

They don't care about others.

So even in the conference final and the Stanley Cup final,

they're not paying attention.

But I think to have a format that you go through an 82 and soon 84 game schedule

that, that essentially does mean nothing.

Because now the three, three of the top five teams of the league are going to be

out after two rounds.

That should piss off.

Craig Leopold and, and the Colorado owner and the Dallas owner.

That, that really should.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's ridiculous.

Um, that, that, that the Utah mammoth will have an easier path to the Stanley Cup final.

Um, by playing some of these, you know, the Pacific has just been bad this year.

Yeah.

You see, it's an aberration and every year is different.

But the reality is is that this format has allowed for this likelihood.

And we see, we've seen it coming and Utah, by the way, is on the rise.

So this is just going to continue to be a thing in the central division.

So, um, and, and the fans seem to hate it.

The, I could tell you what I talked to GMs and coaches and players off the record.

They hate it.

I think people in the league hate it.

But Gary loves it because he sees, but like to me,

from somebody that covers all four rounds of the playoffs for the athletic,

the fact that, that, that the conference finals every single year,

since like this format came into play in the, in the, like, around 13,

that are pretty much end in five or six games tells you that right now, these, these,

I mean, I covered Carolina, Florida.

It was a sweep a couple of years.

Yeah.

It's just, it, to me, it doesn't make sense that you want your best rounds always in the first round.

But yet, the most non competitive rounds, because the good teams are out,

are in the second and third rounds.

It just makes no sense.

The point of winning a Stanley Cup should be the best team has the opportunity to win the Cup.

And, uh, this format is not allowed.

I, I, there's nothing you said that isn't 100% true.

And you, you went to where I was going to go with you.

And I was just going to say, without having any, without having any access to

whatever those numbers and analytics look like as far as revenue generation,

that's what this is clearly about.

And, and you know, you touched on it.

At the end of the day, Gary Bettman will always go back to the owners and say,

yes, but look at the money that we're making.

And that's going to be the, the sword that he falls on.

And we've seen Gary Bettman in his history, not afraid to double down, triple down,

quadruple down on things that everybody else hates.

And in one sense, it's made him very successful.

In one sense, it's made him very disliked and very unpopular.

Um, but, you know, at the end of the day, in order for this to have happened,

someone had to agree on it somewhere.

Remember that like the players had to agree on it.

The owners and the GMs had to agree on it.

So I'm on the side with you guys of, I hate to play off format.

But the dollars and cents clearly make, make sense.

And some people had to say, okay, to this for this to be in.

And I just want to be fair.

And I want to, we see it too.

What's our show?

We see it too with our show, like after the first round.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Um, but I also think that as long as you have 16 teams in it,

I think those fans are going to pay attention no matter who you're playing.

True.

So I think you could have a format of one through eight.

Sure.

That those teams are going to be, you know, that, I mean,

it's going to be that same way in any format where the,

where the eyeballs go become less and less.

And look, look, I am, I, I am one of the people, I mean,

there's a lot of people out there that call me a carry-backed

an apologist.

I, I actually genuinely like him.

I think for the most part, he makes sense.

But the one thing that you said, Colby, that is true,

is that, you know, he is stubborn.

And if he has a belief system, he's not going to change his mind.

And this has been his long, this has been his position on this format

as, as long as I can remember.

And even if it makes sense from a competitive point of view to change it,

he just, this is what he's dug in on.

And I think that he, that, you know, in his eyes,

the, you know, the more eyeballs and the money that you're making,

whatever, the, the analytics say on the first round is,

is more important to him than Minnesota being out after the first round again,

even though they hadn't, you know, the third most points maybe in the NHL.

And so, you know, and, you know, I appreciate Bill Garen.

And I know a lot of fans are saying, well, Bill Garen's just saying this

because it affects him.

Bill's been saying this for years.

And the reality is what he's saying, you know, and Bill is, you know,

he says, be careful what you wish for.

You could lose to anybody.

But what he says is that you just should not have the second best team

to lead claim third best team.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

No one can disagree with that.

Yeah.

Before we let you go, there's one other topic I wanted to ask you about.

And I think it sort of ties into yesterday with, you know, Bob Motzko

and Minnesota parting ways.

And the discussion at the GM meetings about the 19 year old players playing

in the American hockey league.

And why I connect that to the Minnesota thing is that obviously the new path

for these players, they can play major junior, they can go to college.

You know, we had huge news yesterday.

Like we said with Motzko, a lot of the criticism on him was that he didn't

really want to dip into the major junior pile of players, which I'm not sure

I disagree with him on that, by the way.

But what did you hear yesterday from the GM meetings about this whole 19 year old rule?

Because it sounds like they're already changing their mind on it based on the feedback

that they're getting and they're going to maybe allow more 19 year olds play

in the American hockey league.

Yeah.

That's what Coli Campbell said that the basically it comes down to how many?

You know, one, two, three, it's not going to be like six or seven.

And you know, a criteria, is it just first round picks?

Is it first to fourth round picks?

Bill Daly was meeting with Dan McKenzie, the president of the CHL yesterday

and the other CHL commissioners, you know, OHL Quebec League and obviously Western League

to kind of go through this.

And I think they're going to have a decision soon.

But to your point on Bob, you know, look, he was going to probably retire in a year anyway.

That's why I'm a little surprised at the timing.

But the one thing that's happening in college is it's, you almost, you need a GM.

And this is, you know, the one thing I think the University of Minnesota got lost on this year

and maybe because it is, you know, at Bob's age and you just didn't want to do it,

is they'd lost out on a lot of these Canadian kids coming down here.

They only had, I think, one.

And I do think that it's now a time.

I'm, look, you got to join it.

You know, you might not love the whole NIL thing and the whole transfer portal

and now Canadian major junior players coming down here.

But that's the lay of the land now.

It's a professional sport college sports.

And I think that, you know, they're going to have to find somebody running the show at University of Minnesota,

whether it's the coach or hiring somebody that's going to run the show as a general manager.

And because there is no reason why this program shouldn't be as elite as many of the others in the United States.

North Dakota's got one.

I have a GM. They hired one.

It's slowly, it's slowly happening.

It is slowly happening.

And look, I didn't, I didn't have the greatest relationship with Bob,

but I do respect his body of work.

I really do.

And, and I would just be careful for people that are saying that he was fired

because I do believe this was very mutual.

I really do.

I think they both felt like it was time.

And I heard six months ago that he was going to retire after this season.

He just wanted to coach world juniors get through the season, you know, and then retired.

That job will be, I mean, you will get,

you will get highly, highly decorated resumes from the entire globe for that job in Minnesota.

Roos, you're the best.

We've been trying to thank you.

Thank you.

You're a pretty man.

Thank you so much for using us in this morning.

We love when you come on.

And we'll catch up with you soon.

All right.

Let's see you guys.

Take care.

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