Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews - Teaching Kids to Do It Afraid Is the Only Courage That Lasts | Montell & Kristin Jordan

0:00You don't need more discipline. You just need more of Jesus. If your mind won't slow down or you're feeling worn-thin, Bible League International wants to send you a bide, a free 31-day prayer guide to help you draw close to God in as little as five minutes a day. Experience settled peace, lasting joy, and God's nearness. Get your free copy of a bide today. Text a bide to 94878. Life Audio. Hey, Chris and in Montel. Thanks for joining me. Thank you so much. I had a pleasure to be here. Chris and Montel Jordan co-authors of Shiloh and the Not So Scary Girl Up Is Bad. I love that title. David C. Book is a publisher. The term of the first is the date for publication and release. It's so creative and fun. It has such a wonderful, powerful message. Chris and Montel tell me the story behind this book.

1:00I know you guys have five children and I believe five grandchildren. Was it birthed out of those experiences? Absolutely. The pain. It's birthed from death. Yeah, let's do it. It was actually birthed out of our youngest son. He was, we would put him to bed every night and he was about three years old. A little closer to four, but three years old. Every night when we would put him to sleep, like, and it wouldn't happen until you go to put him to sleep, right? He would talk about the monster that lived under his bed and what if he came out and what if he grabbed his toe? I was like, what? You have thought about this far too long. This is crazy. The Holy Spirit gave me this answer of like, what if the monster that lives under your bed is more afraid of you than you are of him? And it was like the lights went on in his head of like, wait, what? And I said, hey, buddy, listen, you're so much bigger than him.

2:03And what if all along he's been waiting so that he could be your friend? He was like, hmm? And I was like, yeah, he's way more afraid of you than you are of him. And it was like, okay, maybe we could be friends. It'll be fine. And I was like, okay, buddy, this is awesome. But it was a way to flip it upside down. And so the Lord just gave me this idea to write about that because he can't be the only kid that's afraid of the monster under his bed. Yeah. And so we take this and flip fear on his side. Yeah. And let me just say my, you know, my son at that age is a lot smarter than me because I would be asking so you're confirming that there is a monster, indeed, living under my bed. No, but you're right, babe, that when it comes to what's in the dark, what was that sound? What's in the closet? Well, I make friends first day of school. These are all things that we now get to contribute to bring a resolve and an answer through Shiloh.

3:03Like you said, who's this amazingly lovable character that you dreamt of for a while. And now we are able to give birth to him so that the world can help their children and grandchildren and search kids and school kids all over the world have an opportunity to conquer their fear. And Shiloh specifically is awesome because Shiloh isn't fearless. Shiloh is afraid, but Shiloh does it afraid because he learns and teaches the people around him how to take one brave step. Amen to that. And of course, it like you said, Chris and it flips the traditional monster under the bed story on its head. It's got, it kind of gives you something you didn't expect. I love that about the book. Specifically, this book is about overcoming fear, but overcoming fear through faith. And God, why is that so significant? Because you could have written this book. It's kind of a mainstream secular book. It could be placed in any doctor's office nationwide, but specifically it's about faith. Why is that so important to you guys? Because I think that is the epicenter of where we find the people that we minister now.

4:09Yeah. Okay. So the interesting thing is, if we don't deal with fear in a three to five year window when you are years three to five, and you know, the interesting thing is is that when kids say, I'm afraid of the first thing out of a parent's mouth is you don't have to be afraid of that. Yeah. But the thing is, is it's very dismissive because the truth is, is that it doesn't mean it's not scary. It means in their three year old mind, that is scary. And so we have to give them the tools in order to understand, what do I do when I feel fearful? It's not that not feel afraid. It's what do I do? So if I invite God into that situation, it teaches me that, yes, this is fearful, but I can be brave because God made me brave. Yeah. And so that is the idea that we have, and the truth is, is that we do marriage ministry. And when we sit across the parents who are afraid to stay, afraid to go, afraid to make a decision, afraid to commit. And what it is is that they didn't learn in a very early stage how to not be afraid and to

5:12invite faith into those decisions so it can help them navigate their entire lives. Yeah. I think manufactured courage is unsustainable. That's correct. Like you just, you can't. Humanly, you can try and produce the courage to do X, Y, and Z. But what happens when you have to do it again and again and again. And so I think the true courage and true bravery is something that's received as opposed to manufactured. And that's what we hope to instill in, you know, in the kids. Not just in the kids, but in the parents and grandparents who have these kids that are now trying to help a kid navigate with fear. One thing I was talking about the other day is I'm now te- I don't swim well at all. Like I've been fearful of water my entire life because of something that happened as a kid. I've been thrown into a pool and the whole idea of you, if you survived and you'll learn how to, you know, that'll teach you how to swim. And so from that time and a couple other experiences, I don't swim. But now I am teaching my granddaughter, who's the lower one, one and a half.

6:13Now I'm teaching her how to swim. And it's weird because as I'm teaching her, don't be afraid. Lay back. You got to relax. You got to relax. You know, as I'm teaching her, I'm actually teaching myself how to swim through her. And so I think what we're doing is we're providing an outlet for not only teaching kids to be fearless of meaning to be able to face their fear, but we're teaching the parents and the grandparents and the school. You know, Sunday school teachers were equipping them to conquer a fear in themselves that they didn't even know may have been there by giving it and passing the baton to the young people that this book is going to impact. Amen. I love reading to my kids. And I think you guys have discovered this as well in your own parenting that sometimes I learn as much as my kid is learning as I'm reading to them. Sometimes those are Bible stories, by the way, so especially when you get in the house system, I'd never even have my kid. I'm like, this is in there. So I love, I love how that works.

7:16Montel, you've experienced some enormous highs and lows in your career. Of course, people know you from your music. This is how we do it. You know, you've had a number one song worldwide and you've also recently battled prostate cancer. And it was, you spoke briefly about your fear of the water and fear of swimming, but how is your understanding of fear and trusting God in the midst of your changed through maybe your experience in battling cancer? Yeah. Well, thank you for asking that. I mean, it's crazy that we are releasing a book that's navigating childhood fears when you know, there's adult fears too. You know, I know one wants to hear those words. You know, it's cancer. And when you do hear them, you are faced with, you've got a response that you have to come to a conclusion. You have to have something resolute that allows you to be able to navigate what that journey was. And that's what I had to navigate. And so in hearing those words, I can tell you that it was immediately shocked, of course,

8:18but something that was inside immediately when I heard it says, this is not going to kill me. So I mean, when he said, when the doctor said, this is because I was taught and in ministry, I know that what you speak, you know, what comes out of your mouth, you know, if the, I've known people that they hear, or they got a cancer diagnosis and three weeks later, they're dead, you know, or they succumb to the disease. And immediately when I heard the words, hey, God, good news and bad news. The bad news is it's cancer and the good news is it's caught early enough. And so, you know, we have options, but the moment he said his cancer, the thing that popped into my heart was I said, this is not going to kill me. It's not going to kill me. So it didn't mean that we were, I wasn't afraid. It didn't mean that I just charged that hill like all cancer and got it. It was just literally in the face of fear, what do you do? You know, and I think part of it is I trust that I'm not going to have to navigate cancer

9:19and God be apart from me to watch me navigate cancer. I believe I'm going to navigate cancer and God is going to be right there with me in the midst of cancer. And that's what happened. That's what happened the first time when I had surgery to have my prostate removed. And that's what happened the second time when cancer returned nine to ten months later. And I had to have proton therapy treatments, which amounted to seven and a half weeks, forty seven treatments of every single day, navigating, having radiation shot into my body and the entire way. I know God was there with me and I was afraid and I did it afraid. And so there's a part of of Shiloh, I think that's in me. I think it's a part of Shiloh, the sin, Christian having a husband, navigating cancer two times. And how do you navigate one to keep your husband and keep him alive and keep him healthy and what's going to happen to the family and just take one brave step at a time. This is the journey we've been on for the, to release the cliffhanger, God spoiler alert,

10:24I'm cancer free. And my prostate specific antigen level is zero point zero one, which is known as undetectable or cancer free. I'm detected for life. Undetected for life, that's our, our belief that we're going to be undetected for life. Yeah, that is a part of, of the journey and we made eating changes, dietary change, work outchains. We did a lot of things to not medically only do what we're supposed to do, but holistically do what we're supposed to do. I fast and we fast together once a month for three to four days, sometimes five days, to reset the body, cutosis, all those different things that, you know, medically and holistically physically, we're doing everything that we need to do for God to be able to utilize me and utilize us to the greatest extent to advance, advance the kingdom in South of the Delta. Do you ever want to spend more time in God's word, but the day just gets away from you?

11:28Bible League International created a free guide called nine tips to get more of God's word in your life. It's filled with practical ideas to help you build a simple rhythm in scripture, plus a 30-day scripture writing challenge to keep you going. Because when we spend time in God's word, something wonderful happens. Clarity grows and joy deepens. Get your free copy today. Just text more to 94878. It is God who directs our paths. I'm Christi Graham, host of the show on the ground with Samaritan's Purse, and I recently talked with Franklin Graham, my father-in-law and president of Samaritan's Purse, about how he stays grounded. Proverbs 35 and 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. And they not on your own understanding, but all your ways acknowledge him and he'll direct your paths. To hear this encouraging conversation, listen to this episode of On the Ground with Samaritan's Purse, wherever you get your podcasts. Again, that's On the Ground with Samaritan's Purse.

12:30We'll follow questions there. When was this cancer battle? How long ago, how many years? Diagnosed January of 2024, surgery November of 2024, to have the prostate removed, declared pretty close to being cancer-free. After that? After the ACED cancer-free. You know, August of 2025, that's when a recurrence or something hidden showed up. And then that's when we had the proton therapy in November, October and November of 2025. Christmas Day of 2025, declared undetectable and still undetectable. It's a good Christmas gift right there. Oh, my God. Oh, man. That's crazy Lord. So kind. Dr. Johnny, he actually took time away from his family to call us on that day. On Christmas Day. Give it the greatest gift. Yeah. That was gay, man. Yeah. Somebody might ask about your fasting. What does that look like practically? You're drinking something, of course, but what are you fasting from? Normally fasting for us is anything that's right around 72 hours and it's just water.

13:37It's all water. So what it'll look like for me is I'll start on a Sunday night. I'll eat meals or whatever. Start tapering off. When I get to Sunday around midnight, 10 o'clock or midnight, my body comes underneath submission. Normally, our appetite's dictate how we move, where we go. What am I doing for lunch tomorrow? Well, I'm going to do it when you're the limit. Crazy how much food dictates what we do. Yeah, for sure. When you fast, you realize, yeah, you can do lunch, dinner breakfast, you can't, but the thing is is our flesh needs that submission. Yeah. And it's not just intermittent fasting. It is literally a time of prayer, a time of devotion, hearing clear from God, allowing your body to cleanse itself. You're regenerating all new cells during that time period. Normally, you could go a day with water and it's a big deal. But after 48 hours, that's when the body goes into a state of ketosis where literally it's now burning fat. By the time you get to 72 hours, your body has regenerated all new cells.

14:40So that's something that I highly recommend. Anybody that's navigating any type of cancer, it is, I mean, I don't know the full context behind the research on data. We had an incredible trainer shout out to coach Rochelle T. Parks. She taught us how to do this cleansing and like, she did a pantry audit. They would have scared you to life. My kids were like, oh my gosh, what's happening? I don't know what's happening. But all their little nasty snacks got thrown away. And just things you think are healthy that aren't. It's really, there's this sugar. There's so much sugar, man, and everything that we consume. Which the answer, so that was the part that we've got. So yeah, I think I get 100 years. Our grandkids and our great-grandkids are going to think we were crazy for some of this stuff that we ate. I accidentally, let's quickly talk a Montele about what you're doing now in your career and what you're doing with Kristen. You know, everybody knows you as the senior behind.

15:41This is how we do it. I think it turned 30 in the past year. Uh, yeah, 30. When you sing that song today, are you the same person singing it or does it mean something completely different to you? I think it is someone completely different. And the way I've tried to explain it when I go out and I do sing the song is I say that what I'm able to do by singing this song 31 years later is I give people nostalgia. I believe that music is the soundtrack to our lives. Meaning when you have a good memory in your life, there's probably a song attached to it. You have a tragic moment in your life. There's probably some music attached to it. And what I do with my music is I give you time travel. I literally take you back through those highs and lows of a lifetime based on how my music impacted you at that time. And so in addition to giving you nostalgia, I also get to show you what it looks like when God gets ahold of a man's heart and then changes them and then put some right back out

16:42where people remember him, but they know that something is different, but they can't tell what that difference is. And then I'm able to share that it is the power of Christ that transformed my heart that yeah, I'm singing the song, but it's a different man that God created in me that you're seeing sing the song. And so it feels different when I'm telling you, lift up your hands. I'm not telling you to lift up your hands for me anymore. I'm pointing to something different and you can feel it and know that there's something different. I have a song, still is an inroads to the hearts, you know, of people, but it now has a different purpose that I get to allow people to see what God did in me and makes available to them. Amen to that. So you're, you have quite a few, I guess, I aren't in the fire right now. You do that and I believe are you a worship pastor as well? I mean, are you? I'm a worshiper. I'm no longer. I for a while, I was on staff at a church. I was a worship pastor. I was an executive pastor and then we passed it a church for two years, a virtual church

17:46called Masterpiece Church, MPC. We did that for two years and then upon taking on this, the journey of battling cancer, that was a place that we felt like the Lord released us to be able to stay in community and small group with those people who were attending the church. But the place of that virtual space is no longer viable for us. And yes, so in addition to us, we're still licensed or dangerous. We're still licensed and ordained pastor. We now pastor the unpastored. That's how I felt when I'm out on tour and I'm out with other recording artists and musicians and entertainers, a Hollywood, all types of people who may not have the ability to get to a church on Sunday. That's what we find ourselves ministering and ministering to lost people who enjoy music and are unsuspecting in secular spaces that God will show up to tell them that he loves them. And he misses them and misses them. And now we get to do, we do marriage ministry together. We run a re-art great center where we get to speak to people who are in public spaces

18:49and allow them a beautifully curated private place to heal. We help public marriages heal in private and in doing that, we also get the opportunity to be authors now as well. So if there's marriage ministry, there's, we're still touring to music and now heading into Christian authorship of trying to create content to counter maybe some of the other messaging that's out there in the world that we want to infuse a lovable character, whether you're Christian or not, that you can understand that the strength that Shiloh gets is not from himself. It's bigger than him. Let me ask you one follow up questions as we land a plane here. Were you guys both believers when you were married or did you, or is the answer yes, but we grew in our faith as we enjoyed life together. Now this is funny. Now I was the saved one. I was fluttering. Was the heathen? I was fluttering to convert. And no, no, no. And then I got saved. She got saved and then I found out I was a church, but I was the heathen.

19:52I was always a church, but church wasn't always in me. And so the journey early on with us finally, it really was, she started chasing God. I was chasing her. God was chasing me. Eventually, both of us started chasing after God and God caught us both. And so we entered the industry and the entertainment of business, both chasing after God and not fully knowing what that, what that would look like. But along the 30 year journey, we have found ourselves able to maintain and sustain a marriage and to be together and to now be influential to other marriages and people who want to know how to get through three decades. And there's years later, here we are. Hey, man. And I'm assuming that most artists and most musicians would love to just have one single that lands on the Billboard chart. But you have this hit that has opened the door to so much ministry in your life.

20:54Is that correct? You probably are able to minister to people that you would have never been able to minister to because of that, just because of that one song. I would propose that it was the whole reason. Yeah, I would say that God gave us to, he gave us other number one songs. We have, we have lots of songs. But that particular song is the calling card that immediately, you know, I think it was Billboard says it's one of the top 100 party anthems of the last century. So in that space of time of the great songs that are out there, we've just tried to make that song to turn it from performance into, into having purpose, really to where the song is the entry point. But ultimately, if God doesn't get the glory from what we're doing with it now, there's no reason for us to be there. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. If you enjoyed today's interview, please make sure to subscribe and share the episode with a friend. A big thanks to the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast.

22:13If you go to LifeAudio.com, you will find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. See you next time. Well, the physician comes in and says, tells this lovely couple, hey, your son's not going to make it. But there's a young girl here in the hospital who just delivered a baby girl and she's giving her up, she's going to leave her here, do you want her instead? That was Chartopper Ryan Stevenson, sharing a personal testimony on the walk, a podcast for worshipers. Join us weekly to hear artists, songwriters, worship leaders, filmmakers and other creatives tell their stories in the form of a devotional. The walk can be found on LifeAudio.com or your favorite podcast platform.