Cryptids: Real Creatures or just Legends? | Natalie Rose

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1:05the Midnight Cryptid Club. A show, I guess it looks past the monster of the week version of cryptids and gets into the more of the history and the folklore and evidence and strange stories behind all these things. Natalie has spent a lot of time asking which of these stories might have something real underneath them and which ones fall apart once you start pulling at threats. Tonight, I don't want to ask her the usual questions about her favorite cryptid and what first got her interested. I would probably go over that, but I want to get into something a little harder. How do we know when we're investigating a mystery and when we're helping create one? So, with that being said, Natalie Rose, welcome to Broadcasting Seeds.

2:09Thank you so much for having me today. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm excited to get into it. Absolutely. Do some shameless product placement and tell people exactly where they can find you. Sure. You can find us on TikTok, Instagram or YouTube. We have an almost weekly show that we run on YouTube as often as we can. We are very active on Instagram and TikTok we post almost every day. So, you can find us over there and we also have a book coming out next week. So, you can find that over on Amazon. It's also under the Midnight Cryptid Club banner. Awesome. What's it about? So, that one's actually a middle grade mystery novel. We had some cryptid lovers who are older, who are parents, who want to be able to share these legends in a way that they can package them to their kids. Something that's a little more approachable that's reading about them online. So, we wrote a fantasy series based on each state's cryptid. So, our first one is Iowa. It's all about the Van Meter visitor. So, you'll have to go check it out. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah.

3:11And a cool angle. Got my brain working. Anyway. Yeah. So, like when I brought it up already, but like when you're researching a cryptid case, what is the first detail that makes you stop and think, okay, this one deserves more attention. So, a lot of the times I look for what evidence was actually found, because it's one thing to hear a story about somebody seeing something. And it's another thing to be like, well, this thing attacked my car. And then the car is pretty scratched up. You know, so those are the different things that you look for. Like something that jumps out to me is the lizard man of skateboard swamp. That's an interesting one, because not only do you have the story, but you also actually have the vehicle that was damaged in that investigation. Versus something like as much as I love them, like a loveland frog situation where there wasn't really any evidence. It was just a lot of stories that it built up over time. Yeah. Yeah. So, so let's flip that around. What's something that immediately

4:18makes you suspicious of a report, even when the story itself sounds convincing, because some people are really good storytellers, right? Definitely. I think it's a matter of how many different parties saw the same thing. Even if it's like one group of four people who have claimed to all see the same thing, like that versus two different parties coming across something similar to me is more legitimate. Like the Dover Demon is an interesting one where you had three separate people didn't talk to each other. All allegedly saw the same thing. That's when like the wheels start to turn. You're like, okay, maybe there is something out there that we didn't have that independent reporting, right? That because otherwise, you know, we can collude and do this together. Yeah. Yeah. And you see that a lot these days, I think, with internet culture too. Oh, yeah. That's really, really expanded on that. So, so is there a cryptid you once found fairly believable that became less believable the more you research

5:23to everybody hates his answer. It's a lot of me. Dude, I like listen, as much as I want to believe in I can't. And unfortunately, that also comes with like this layer of the metaphysical that accompanies a lot of these sightings. Not that I throw anything out. I'm a person who approves everything with an open mind. But when you start bringing the metaphysical into it, I really need to see a lot for me to believe that it could be out there. And the more that I tore into the moth man stuff, the less it made sense to me. Unfortunately. Now, I'm kind of there with you. Some of that like what was the big piece of evidence that started changing your mind? I mean, yeah, you say metaphysical, but was there something that just like broke the camel's back? Like, you're like, nope. Or is it just like a general feeling? I think it was it was a general feeling, but it was the consistency of stories that didn't add up. Like two people are driving like the

6:28initial point pleasant sighting to people are driving in a car and they see a giant creature with like red eyes and a large shape like in the sky. And then from that, like it was very difficult to solidify even when it turned into a moth. You know what I mean? Like so that stuff too, where I feel like we took something and we ran with it because we really liked the idea of it. And I love a good story. But a good story isn't necessarily a cryptid sighting. Yeah. Has the opposite happened? Like something you initially thought was ridiculous, but after researching the original reports, you thought, man, maybe there's something to this. I think that's honestly Hopkinsville Godwins for me. Oh, yeah. Wow. To this day, I still I don't I don't know. That's one that in the back of your mind, like I really tried hard to disprove it to myself when I was doing the research for it. But the more that I read, the more these people stuck to their story, like so hard that they refused

7:31to move houses or it was really, really tough for them. That's the Kentucky. Is that an Appalachia? Where is that? Yeah, that's Kentucky. So I feel like there was a there's a filmmaker out there started making a he was asking questions about that. I'm trying to think of the movie that he that came out of it. Yeah, I can't remember. Damn. I wish that was prepared for that, but I'm not. And he's the kind that was like, oh my god, like there's some there's like legs to this. And he was on the ground there. So yeah, it's weird. There's police. There's a lot of for me, it's when there's a really strong historical record is where I'm like, okay, like something definitely was seen. Van meter visitors, another great example of that where there's a really strong historical record of it. And then that was I mean buried forever until Chad Lewis and team kind of dug it up. So that's interesting. Also. So like what evidence would actually make you abandon a cryptid theory that you currently

8:39believe is possible. What evidence would make me abandon it? Yeah, abandon a cryptid theory. As in like, I don't believe something. And then you do believe it. And then what would make me? Yeah, it's kind of like a you know, researchers don't talk about enough. I don't feel like people talk about like the evidence that would make them fall off the trail of something that they really believed in. Well, I think the Yeti is an interesting case study of that where people have been trying for so long to get absolutely anything on this. And like the most that they found like every hair sample has been like Apple, or Apple Asian Himalayan brown bears. Yeah, or like goats or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that everybody was so excited about him is often totally fake. So those are the things I think we get really excited when somebody brings something to light. Like the hand is a great example of the ping-ponged hand where everybody got really excited about it.

9:41And then unfortunately, it was just not to be false. Even though it was like coveted and passed back and forth and stolen, I mean, that could be a movie for sure. Yeah, because I feel like so I have an issue with Sasquatch meaning. I mean, no, no meaning that I've had a class A siding. Yeah, I've had multiple class A siding. Yeah. So it's like because if there's nothing that could change our mind, or we still really investigating, because I'm not, I know it. I'm in no where, you know what I mean? I'm not a, and there's nothing that you can do to make me change my mind. Now the only thing you could do is to maybe show me what it actually is. Yeah. So I might change my mind in that, but I'm not going to change my mind in what I encountered. Yeah. I guess that's where I'm kind of getting that with that question. You know, it's, it's one of those nope. Like you can say whatever you want, but it's like when they're trying with

10:48this like Patterson, Ginnwin debunking stories. And okay, that's fine. I just know what I think. Great. But you've seen enough that you know that something is out there. Right. So like speaking of that, because you guys McDonald's is putting value back on the menu. Whether you're craving a big Mac, McNuggets or sausage egg and cheese, McGrittle's, make it a meal and save. Your favorite is now your wallet's favorite too. Extra value meals are back. Get a big something extra with a big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets fries and a medium Coke all for just $9. Limited time only promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. It's fall in Jeep country and during the drive into fall sales event, get a great deal on four by fours that refuse to be contained like Jeep Wrangler, confidence built into every drive with the most awarded SUV ever, Jeep Grand Cherokee.

11:50And freedom that can't be denied with the open air freedom in Jeep Gladiator. After 85 years, it's no surprise that Jeep became America's SUV brand. Get a great deal during the Jeep drive into fall sales event. Jeep is one more awards over its lifetime than any of the other SUV brand, Jeep and the Jeep Grill Registered trademarts of FCA US LLC. McDonald's is putting value back on the menu. Whether you're craving a big Mac, McNuggets or sausage egg and cheese McGrittle's, make it a meal and save. Your favorite is now your wallet's favorite too. Extra value meals are back. Get a big something extra with a big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets fries and a medium Coke all for just $9. Limited time only promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. You guys take reports or you just like research reports. We don't usually take reports and I think it's not for lack of wanting them. I think people just don't really do that because of the format of our show. But we do, we love to hear people

12:53thawries ironically in a way. We've gotten so many stories about everything but Sasquatch. Kind of on purpose though because I'm not a, there are so many channels or researchers like yourself who are Sasquatch focus. Yes. I'm like you guys, you guys are the big leagues. I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about this. I understand. I do. So yeah, so I do take a more general approach to kind of avoid the Sasquatch only because I love people who do that. I mean, you are one big foot. What's his name? Jeremiah. Oh, I'm blanking on it, which sucks because I love Jeremiah. So big clarity. Big foot size. Yes. One of them. Collier and star. I mean, those, you guys are the real like, yeah, they're so there's a there's a lot of really good Sasquatch researchers. There just is. And people doing like real, real stuff like terrestrial from the Sasquatch data project.

13:58Like you've never looked into her that it's insane. I have, it's crazy. It is. And I interviewed her and met her. And we just talked about, I mean, it's just she's such a dad and nerd. But it's so good. It's so good. Like the stuff that she's figured out, it's really hard to say. Go. No. And then I think his name is Thomas. Because of course, names. But the big foot uh, mapping project also is incredible. So yeah, those are the things. Yeah. I won't mess with. I just rever you guys. I mean, I've been doing that level of field work. Right. I mean, would you rather have a just thinking about all all this stuff? Would you rather have one piece of physical evidence? I guess that you could say is difficult to explain. And that's saying it's an incontrovert, right? Or 100 independent eyewitnesses who all describe essentially the same thing.

15:02If they were unrelated, I mean, I think unfortunately through a biological, because somebody was asking me like, what scientific evidence would you need? And I'm like, scientific could be observation. Observation are scientific. We're talking about biological evidence. Yeah. Then I honestly, I do think that the sightings might be more of a tell than like one piece of something that isn't totally put together. Because if you think about it, I mean, even evidence collected from crime scenes can come back as inconclusive. And you don't know. Oh, absolutely. So that's that's kind of the thing that does make me, I mean, I'm definitely a Sasquatch believer for sharing no question. Because you you almost can't not be at this point. Yeah. Yeah. It's slightly ridiculous. I mean, well, I don't know. Is it? I mean, it is. But it's one of those instances where I take just take the Bigfoot mapping project, for example. Yeah. He's got something like and he

16:03doesn't even have all of it. This is just from the databases that he has access to. Yeah. We're talking 17,000 independent sightings now. You see. Not all sightings, but pieces of evidence. All right. Yeah. Only one of those has to be real. Exactly. So you're you're playing math now. Right. And and mathematically, and I'm not saying it's an ape or a you know, an unknown hominid or nephlum or whatever. I'm not saying any of it. It's not doesn't even matter what it is at this point. Something is causing this phenomenon. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And we have evidence. I mean, historically going back years of other creatures who were thought to be cryptids for a long, long time. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's possible in that respect. Yeah. For sure. So like when people

17:06tell these stories, right, what do you think researchers misunderstand most about eyewitness testimony? I mean, eyewitness testimony in the same way that evidence. It's awful. I mean, it can be. Yeah, it can be. I've had a couple of people like come on. We do TikTok lives every now and again. And there are some people who come on to share their stories and like in my head, I'm like, all right. But like, does this go anywhere? Yeah. Where it's something that's like peripheral. Like there was there was definitely something that made a noise and a bushing like that's so great. Anything else? Is there anything else that we can put to this? Yeah. So those are the things that I think researchers will pass on something that doesn't have any specific detail in it. Even if it's just one thing, I had some guy tell me a really awesome Jersey devil story where he was working at an army base or an air force base up there. I forget. Probably it's probably for Dietrich.

18:09I think I don't know if it's that one. I think there was one other one. Okay. Could be. I don't if you said the name, I would definitely remember it. But he was on a run. And he would always like run to a convenience store, get a drink and come back. And on his way back, he saw something eating a bear carcass. And freaked out. So he brought his friend back to the carcass. And it had been like almost entirely consumed. And it was complete when he was on his way to his run. So by the time he got back, most of it was gone. And he'd seen something over it. But he didn't mess with it while he was on his run. Because he was like, that's crazy. I'm a human facing this giant creature. He thought that it might be another bear or something like that. And as they were looking into it, you know, they were looking for those specifics. He was like, I was trying to prove myself wrong. Like, what could this be? But a bear can't eat all of that in a day. I'm like, all these other things. And finally, he saw an image of the Jersey devil. And he was like, no, I think that's what I saw. Oh my gosh. That's what I saw. That's all that's crazy. It's

19:13crazy. And I personally don't believe that the Jersey devil is really out there. So to me, I'm like, it's a great story. But I said for T-Trick, but I meant for Dicks. That's what I meant. That one. Yeah. But there's like a joint base there. But anyway, it doesn't remember specifics. But that place is just spooky. I've never had a like, I have never had a Jersey devil experience. Yeah. But I can tell you those pine barons, there's something going on there. Like it's a, yeah, there's some like high string, this adjacent stuff. I believe that for sure. And I do think that often what happens when we talk about cryptids is that the paranormal cross is over a lot more than I think it should. Personally, just because like, for example, we did this cryptids rankings video. I don't know if you've happened to come across it. I didn't, but I got to find it because I did. I love that. Yeah. Get in there and just hate on us like everybody else's.

20:18Everybody was really upset because really, we actually ranked the Midwest as having the scariest cryptids folklorically. You know, look, that thing like that we needed evidence for just like, based on stories and things like that. And everybody was so upset. A lot of people in the south, particularly were very upset. Really? They were like, all these things like Louisiana's full of stuff. I'm like Louisiana is full of ghosts and demons and other things that I cannot understand. But if we're looking purely at like cryptid creatures, the ranking is going to be different than like something haunted for sure. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know, well, Dogman is a pretty, at least that's where it came out of. To me, that's terrifying. Dogman to me. I don't know, I'll run after an eight foot, eight like creature in the woods all day. And she put a dog head on that. It's still a reason that's like, damn, I'm not, you know, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like the gray road stories are very, are very, are very, uh, those freak me out for sure. Yeah. So, man, I, uh,

21:25I mean, I don't want, I don't want to have you ever had an experience? Preferably. I told this story recently. Um, I don't know. So I guess I have to ask questions to people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never had anything that would, would constitute like a class A citing. Uh, I've had paranormal experiences more than I've had cryptid experiences. And that's like one of the reasons I actually don't talk about the paranormal on my channel very much. Uh, I had a possession experience and I'm not. So I stay as far away from that as I am for that reason. Um, that's why I kind of stick to the biological and science. Although we do talk about, of course, a course like folklore, it'll, it'll cross over, but I'm not going to actively put myself in a position where I'm looking for spirits. Um, I can understand. Yeah. Especially if you've had. Yeah. Yeah. Well, those we tend to not talk. Got you. Um, yeah.

22:34Well, we can talk after. Yeah. I have stuff to say about that too, but anyway, I don't want to get sidetracked. So, um, I mean, do you think like, I guess, how do I put this modern, cryptid culture is sometimes changing the characteristics of the creatures themselves? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think again, that that really ties into like the internet lore of it all. Um, I think we're seeing this emergence of counter culture that is using cryptids as a base and kind of expanding on that, which I don't, I think that's just like the nature of humans, like we like telling stories, we like the drama. Um, that's why we look into these things sometimes. But I do think that it does muddy the actual investigations that a lot of field researchers are doing. Um, and it does make it harder to like when we're researching our episodes, even kind of filter, like this is definitely false. This might be true. And that's just a human thing too. Like,

23:39you look at yellow journalism in the 1900s, like, oh, god, yeah. Again, like Jersey devil stuff and Stanley Astor, like it's always been ridiculous, but it just depends on how ridiculous are we getting at this point? I mean, I grew up, I was born in the 70s. And I remember the inquiry and all of those different, you know, newspapers, that's what they were, frankly. And so you brought up yellow journalism. But you would stand in the grocery store as a kid, fascinated, just reading, you know, that Michael Jackson had a love child with like, you know, some sort of alien. Yeah. You know, it's just a wild. Um, so yeah, I mean, because I think, I think to kind of piggyback on your answer, somebody sees something unusual. Um, now the internet, right? So they go online,

24:41they discover the vocabulary of big foot and dog man and crawlers and the when to go, right? And whatever, whatever it may be. And then suddenly experience, their experience gets categorized for them. So it's like, yeah, yeah. I wish I could get a hold of people right after. Because without, I'd like to interview people that don't have the vocabulary. Yeah, yeah, truly, because that makes it all the more, I think, honest when you don't have anything to compare it to. And there's also like the bastardization that you see of things like the when to go, for example, that has now turned from the original legend into like a cinema monster essentially. Oh, yeah. Like with antlers and the whole, the deer headed shenanigans. Oh, man. Yeah. It's crazy. So I'm going to ask you, have you ever seen the movie ravenous? I've not. I'm not. ravenous.

25:43Because that's the one to go to me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that's the native American lore. Uh, is that it's not a entity per se. It is, but it possesses some. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Smart. Yeah. So if you haven't seen ravenous, uh, you like movies, right? So like movies, get after it because it's a really good movie. It's twisted dark humor. Yeah. And most people, it's portrayed as a horror movie, but frankly, you know, I'm a twisted individual anyway, but to me, there's a lot of committee in it, especially in music. And you'll see what I mean if you watch it. Oh my god. So no, I'll have to check it out. I have a whole list of curtain movies to check out, but I'm fortunately very disappointed by most of the ones I've seen. Yeah. They all kind of I know. I need as someone who works in movies, I really need people to like start making better

26:46one. Maybe that has to be me. I don't know. I really hope it's, it's not though. I'm already doing the show. Somebody else, but yeah. So you've got your top 10 list, right? So which, which famous cryptid do you think has been most distorted by retellings? I mean, I think the when to go is the obvious answer, but I'm trying to think of maybe some others that I've come across in my research and have just, ooh, I think this is an odd answer, but I think Nessie is one who's story understood. And tragically, I think it's because the more I looked at that one too, the less it made sense to me and the more it looked like hoaxes upon hoaxes. Well, I think there's more hoaxes proved about Nessie than anything else possibly. Yes. Yes. And I do. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. But I do think that that's one where maybe it's not so much the creature itself, but the legend

27:50behind it, I think has definitely been misconstrued. Yeah. For sure. And looking into that, it was a lot of, it's really funny, actually. And I can't remember the details off the top of my head, but essentially, like there was a researcher who claimed to have found it. And then somebody proved him wrong. And then like the grandson of the original guy, like went out and then proved the other guy wrong. It was like a whole like incestuous hoax, hoax mountain, essentially, which was really interesting. But I do think that that one as much as I would love to believe in it, they've like practically drained the lake and still haven't found anything. So maybe not. Right. You know, I don't even know what to think there. Right. Yeah. I mean, we have like the lake Champlain up to Champ, you know. And I have a friend that swears that he's, I mean, it's seen something. Yeah. There's one in Argentina, now Elito, who's like the Argentine version of Nessie. And that's one.

28:52I actually looking at the stories surrounding that there's very little, you know, official quote, unquote evidence. But what's it called? Now Elito NAHUELITO. Like Argentina. Where in Argentina? Nick, sorry, in around Bariloche. Okay. The lake is now Elwapi, which I could spell for you also. That's fine. I'm good enough at it. I can get it. Yeah. But yeah, that's one. The story behind that is surprisingly intricate and detailed. And there have been sightings, I mean, up until like 2020. So I think that's one that was a fun one to look into that I'd never heard anybody talk about before really. Yeah. So I like that's why I wrote it down. Yeah. Yeah. Because I like to hear those things about this. Like I interviewed a guy from Australia, not that long ago. And oh my god. Like I'm making like just, it's same but different, right?

29:53Yeah. Yeah. But probably cool. Yeah. Um, just it kind of gives you the congruency of things across the the world. The world. Yeah. Yeah. That's a funny thing. I feel like in the US, we have so many legends here that I think draw a lot of our attention. But the world is the big place. Many of them are also cross-pollinated to other places, which also bodes since we are a country of immigrants, uh, mostly, right? How many of these people brought legends with them? And yeah. Yeah. That's that was, I mean, Stanley Gaster. Schnell Geist was a a Germanic yeah, spirit before someone like what if he made it a dragon with tentacles? Yeah. Yeah. And it also kind of bodes to I've also gone towards the like power of the human mind to possibly create things and I mean get really weird what the metaphysical stuff. Anyway, you never know. I just don't

30:57know. I bottom line is we don't know shit. So that's true. That's true. I mean, if you think about it, like I didn't episode on ocean creatures, we've only explored I think like what like one percent of the ocean? Yeah. If that if that. Yeah. So I don't know. There's a lot that we don't know that's out there. And it's every day every day we're finding out new things. Yeah. So let's take this to to where you're at for a second. Yeah. So like if TikTok, Reddit, um, YouTube and smartphones existed in a van meter Iowa in like 1903. Yeah. Do you think the van meter visitor would be considered a stronger case today? Or would the internet completely destroy its credibility? I think that that entirely depends on how many pictures were taken. And if AI was still used in 1903 in this in this example. Yeah. Right.

31:58Because that's really the other thing that's terrible about these days. AI just this kind of ruined like visual confirmation is like bunk. Yeah. If you can't believe anything anymore. Which is terrible. It is awful. Yeah. That's something else that I don't know. So truly, the answer is I don't know because if people had the technology but also the ways to alter it that we have today. Yeah. Not sure. I mean, did you think we're currently creating new folklore in real time? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the internet, internet legends. Yeah. Right. That's what it is. Yeah. And look at what is it? The rate or the crawler, right? Yeah. Definitely. I think I'll send it to you as well. I have a pretty good picture of a rake from a trail cam that we set up.

32:58Okay. And it's wild. It could be something else, but oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Freaked us right out. That's all I know because the guys tent that it's next to dude. He's like, nope. I'm out. He like left the expedition. Wow. So. Okay. Yeah. I'll have to see it. Yeah. I mean, I wish it was less greeny, but it's. I don't we always. Exactly. We always. But at the end of the day, it's like something that we harvest in ourselves. So I know. Like I give it credibility, but that doesn't know. That's like anything else because yeah. Right. But again, the fact that researchers like yourself who are going there and really capturing evidence does does improve the odds versus like someone who like it's a it's the Fresno night crawler thing. You know, like that. I don't I don't know. That's so weird. That was that's especially a weird one. Because we're also seeing like third.

34:07I don't know, like three three stations away footage. I forget what that's called exactly. Yeah. But it's not even the original footage that was captured. So who knows what like the actual footage looks like. Yeah. It's like things that people 100 years from now might talk about as though they were ancient legend, right? No, for sure. Or like you like it slender man, for example, like that was a couple years ago. And if if we all die out and like some alien species comes down, they'd be like, oh yeah, these slender men are all over the place. It's crazy. Yeah. We don't you barely hear about it now. No, I know. It's totally died out, which I think is funny. I think it was definitely a fad for a while. Yeah. Kind of trace it back to an actual internet post. I feel like they did that with the rake, but I don't know. I think they did do that with the rake. But I think again, like calling something the rake might be not right. It doesn't mean because there's entities that look very similar to the rake that had different names. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember we're looking at the rake at one point

35:09to do a piece on it. And then that's kind of what I found. It was like, oh, this looks like internet in origin. And maybe it was adjacent to something else. So we ended up not doing it. But I'll have to see where it might come from. Yeah. So like you're not you're not only researching this material. You you you have to turn it into something people actually want to watch. Right. Yeah. And so just like being a filmmaker or I can't call myself that, but you might call yourself a filmmaker, but like a content creator. That's what I'm talking about that. Sure. Ever put you in conflict with being skeptical? Oh, I will say yes and no, because of only because of the format of our show. So how we approach everything is we always tell the story full chest. Like this is what happened allegedly. We

36:11hook them in with the drama. But then the rest of our episode is kind of breaking it down. So like, yes, this is this is the alleged sighting. This is the alleged story. This is allegedly what happened. These are the people who saw the thing. But for this thing to actually be real, like what would what are the conditions that we need for this? Yeah. So like lizard man, for example, we were talking about like how would something like this actually exist? It would have to have this kind of skin. It would have to keep the webs and its fingers and toes. Like all of these other things that would have to be round for it to to really exist. And typically we conclude with like, this is this could be real, right? Or it was if the most likely something else. Or for those that have been proved to be false, like we talked about what it probably is. Yeah, because sometimes the boring explanation is probably the correct. Probably the correct explanation, but the monster makes the better video. So it does. Yeah. So I think a lot of people, especially a lot of people who use

37:14like heavy AI and a lot of their videos, I'd see like really weave some crazy stories. But I do think that it lends to our credibility that we have an open mind, but keep our keep our head of nationalders. I like to have the campfire, right? The set the set with the campfire. The set with the campfire. I think it's cool. I like it. It's really fun. It's a great set. Yeah, it's one of the things I'd love to do. Like when I move down south, um, I'm gonna, you know, this is my basement, right? Yeah. Yeah. And some people love it. It's kind of cool. But at the end of the day, I want like a studio. So, um, that's happening. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, uh, yeah. So like, yeah, but like have you ever found something like during research that would have made great content,

38:20but decided not to use it because you couldn't support it? I think everything that we've spoken about, we will, we will mention, but then again, like debunk it later, like one of them was the mobile wolf woman from, okay. Yeah. No, I'm not saying the right. Sorry. Mobile, Alabama. I, yeah, I know what you're talking about. 3000 comments saying that my pronunciation of mobile was incorrect. So I've, I've learned mobile mobile, uh, mobile, Alabama. The story is ridiculous. Like, it really is the fact that there's like a woman wolf running around. And it's one of those that like nobody actually saw clearly. And then one day, like the newspaper kind of drew it out and they're like, this is it. Like that's, that's one that we talked about. And we said, you know, like it was a big deal. There was a big story in Alabama in the 70s. Like this is what people thought that they saw.

39:22And then quickly mentioned, like, is it real? Probably not. But this is the story. And it was crazy to have people who grew up in Alabama at that time. Comment and be like, no, I remember this. I remember this story running. I remember it like all these pictures were up and around. It was really, really cool to see like the memory of that situation because it was kind of like a slender man situation where it was a fad. And then it disappeared. And now I feel like I see very few people talk about it. Um, because I do think that that's one of the more far-fetched ones. But it's still a good story to tell. But we make a point of separating the stories from like the actual cryptid sightings. Yeah. What's your, what's your favorite story that you've talked about and told so far? My favorite story. That's such a hard question because there are elements. Like, Snelli Gaster has such weird and great stuff in it. Like the fact that it was tied to prohibition and, and you know, like would be

40:25used to warn people to go away from whiskey, mash, like places and stuff like that. But I think comprehensive story-wise. I think lizard man actually. I think the story behind that one is really interesting. And then it opens the door to a lot of history that was going on in the south at that time, which I think adds a lot of interesting stuff to that entire encounter. So I would say it'd be that one or I'm sorry, I know I'm only listing so many beast of gray road. Which is just great. That's a great sighting. It's a great sighting. But it's a great, just history that's recorded. Like it's an actual recorded history of something. So that's one to me that also stands out. It's like, okay. Like there might be something out there that we just haven't gotten to yet. Yeah. So like, you brought up metaphysical earlier. But I'm just going to kind of it. Like,

41:32what do you do with cases where the creature report itself, like sounds, I guess I'll say zoological, right? But the surrounding experience doesn't like lights and orbs and missing time and strange sounds. Right, right, right. Electric interference because I have some of the like, especially electric interference with Sasquatch crazy. Or just other bizarre phenomenon. So like at what point does that stop being cryptosoology, right? Yeah. It's an interesting question because I definitely don't discount the metaphysical aspects of especially Sasquatch sightings. That's actually the one that I get the most like, yeah. And things are only Jeremiah told me a story of like a woman who felt entirely at peace and then like saw something in the woods or something like that. And it's not something that I discount. It is an interesting question of when does it stop being cryptosoology

42:33and kind of something more almost paranormal. I ask it a lot. Yeah. Well, I've seen a lot of orbs too. And it's like, what is going on? Like, I yeah, I try to stick to the mantra that it is cryptosoology if you see like a physical form like even the orbs, for example, could potentially still be cryptosoology. And then if you don't see anything, but you're feeling a lot, that's like kind of what to the more paranormal side of things. I know in my personal paranormal experiences, I don't love talk about it. I never saw anything. Right. I saw like I only felt an experience and like internally could feel a lot, but it was never like I never had like a sleep paralysis demon appear before me or anything like that. And some people have and that's still valid. But I try to maintain that if it's something that I could see and I could potentially like touch, it's still encrypted. It's

43:38still something that's a species versus something that's more unexplainable or even like shadowy, I put shadowy kind of in in the paranormal side of things shadow figures and shadow people, shadow people. Yeah, like that I keep in the yeah in the paranormal side. But it's hard. It's it's a big it is because like the paranormal explanation sometimes becomes a convenient way of straight up explaining the way. Yeah. The lack of biological evidence like for example, we can't find a body because it isn't always physical, you know, and it's like, I mean, is that a legitimate possibility or does that make the claim impossible to test? That's that's what I always come up against. Yeah, no, that is kind of the ultimate question. Especially I've heard a lot of Sasquatch stories and involve something disappearing like right before people's eyes. I don't know if you've heard those too or if you've experienced something like that. What was it again?

44:43Sightings of Bigfoot where the creature will like actually disappear like yeah, yeah, like a portal or yeah, I've got a couple different. Yeah, I've had a couple different instances of different things not from me, but from people that I know. I'm interested to know, have you had a lot of experience with the portals and things like that? No, but I wouldn't say directly like seeing like portals, but I can tell you where we do a lot of research in Pennsylvania. There's a consistent and I'm definitely not the only one that hears these things. Yeah, yeah, there's a consistent metallic sound sometimes in the woods that makes zero sense. Yeah, yeah. Zero, like a door, like a literally like a cell door like you like from a movie. Yeah, like a prison movie where the

45:47and and that it happens a decent amount where we do our research and it's like bro and a lot of times it's accompanied with like I get chills thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of times it's accompanied with orbs. And then some sort of physical or whether it's whoops or wood knocks or samurai chatter or yeah, it's like within and whenever we hear it, we know probably that night we're gonna have activity at our fire. And it's so wacky. And I tell people, hey, you want to experience this? Come out with me. You'll never want to do it again. I promise you. You know what I mean? So it's like my kids are like, nope, not doing it, not going,

46:51you know, but it's pretty wild. Yeah. Anyway, it's not my show. It's my show, but it's about you. It's pretty slow. I know. I know, but I always love acting again, like the the Sasquatch bits of it all. I do leave to the field experts. And I wouldn't even say I'm doing no field expert with me, but I spent 10 years in the military too. So I'm not afraid of anything to a fault. Right. Except for dog man. And I don't blame you. But even then it's like whatever. Okay, do you come at me? Yeah, if you put like 13 things on your window, you're safe. So yeah, that was pretty easy to open. Yeah. So like what's the strangest reoccurring detail you've encountered across reports that you don't have a good explanation for? Do you have that answer for that? That's psychosis. You see that in Bray Road. You see that in lizard man. You see that in

47:56Dover Demon wasn't psychosis, but the guy like refused to talk about it. Yeah, actually like the his name is Billy something. I forget what his last name is. I think it also starts with the B. But after he made his report, obviously, you know, blew up craziness was really, really interesting. Like everybody like flooded in to try to find out what this thing was. And he tried to distance himself from it so much because like he didn't want to talk about anymore. Like after it happened. And I think that's also telling is like how people react to the story being told after the fact. I think it's easy to catch the people who are continuing to seek attention from those that really just don't want to talk about it after the original sighting. So that's one to me that's interesting. But yeah, I think the the symptom that is the most interesting to me is that sudden like, oh my god, I saw something and I'm actually going crazy because nobody is believing me and freaking me out to the point. And some people have tried

48:57to use that as an argument against certain witnesses saying like, oh no, like they were crazy the whole time. Like obviously, but there, there really have been many that I've looked into where people get so scared that they from that point forward cannot function normally anymore. And have been institutionalized in some cases because of what they saw. Yeah. And there's a couple more that I can't remember off the top of my head. But I know a story this might have been Bray Road. It was like a woman or yeah, a woman and her daughter and the daughter freaked out like completely and then was institutionalized because of that sighting. But yeah, that would I think be the scariest to me also. But something that's interesting that I've seen across across several stories. It's a great point because I with my experiences, I've got a couple guys that aren't here anymore because they were never right after the incident.

49:57And I've interviewed so many people too. Who have lived really hard lives and that's kind of where I worked as a mental health professional for a while too. And that's a very good point that you bring up. And it's just like if you break it all the way down, that was a turning point in their lives that happened and they it broke it kind of broke them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was a super powerful and you're like, oh my gosh, like man. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's pretty insane. So I think, um, yeah, wonder how you feel about this. Do you think cryptid stories sometimes tell us as much about human beings? Oh yeah. As they do about whatever creature we're looking for. Entirely. Entirely. For sure. I mean, and I was talking to somebody else about this recently. And they had asked me like, does research in different areas? Like, is it different? Do you find

51:01like differences researching in different areas? And I definitely do like even when I go physically out to areas because of the population there and like the culture surrounds it. So I think different people come up with different explanations for things that happen in their lives. And like we get stuff like the Rugeru for example. Yeah. Dog man, but is really like a lesson for Catholic children like not like a son. Where did that story come from? Kind of right? Exactly. So even though some people have had some kind of sighting from what I've read and from what I've been sent, it's interesting to kind of take that back to the beginning. See, well, did you actually see this or was it like your programming essentially that has led you to construct something? And it's that's like the fine line also between that psychosis thing that we were just talking about.

52:01That you have to think about too. Also the cultural aspect of it too. Because you go back like people think Rugeru, they think of Louisiana, they think of South. But if you go up to Canada and to French speaking, go back and for northern Maine, they also will call dog man or werewolves Rugeru. Yeah. That's where the folklore comes from. Yeah. That's like the word I think for werewolf as you go. Right. Rugeru. So you kind of are like, oh, so it's like, is it different? Is it the same? Does it culturally? Because you know, those cultures have veered off the trail of being completely united. So it's like, hmm, are we talking about the same thing or not? Right? Yeah. Yeah. You don't as an interesting one too. I don't count that as a cryptid necessarily, but I have heard several firsthand accounts of experiences with the spirit. So that's one that interests me also. Because again, like it's also meant to be a story to kind of like scary straight

53:07essentially. Yeah. But yeah. So it's an interesting place for those things. Don't go on the woods because. Yeah. I'm going to get. It's like, why do you think certain communities develop like incredibly strong cryptid traditions while other places with similar geography just don't? I think it's cultural. I think. Yeah. I think at all. It all said people because I'm whether we like it or not, we are kind of like the the master creators, right? And we have this amazing capacity to think and hopefully most of us think. But we have this massive capacity to think and create and discover and create explanations for things that we would like explanations to. That's where this stuff gets muddy sometimes also. Yeah. I think certain cultures also have a predisposition for the supernatural. Whether it comes from religious backgrounds or whatever, but you know, you do. And like,

54:14and then you have to look at this as like what happens when a cryptid becomes part of a town's identity. Yeah. Yeah. We're better. Yeah. Right. So festivals and merch and tourism and local pride. Yeah. Oh, dad. I have at least one comment on every video I've ever made. You guys from Wisconsin. I don't know how you get around. So there is always a whole dad comment. And let me tell you, I didn't know what a whole dad was for so long until I started this. And now we're best friends. But that was crazy to me. That was so funny. Oh my gosh. That's why. Yeah. Some people embrace it, man. But I also think that helps. It can. I don't it's not exclusive. But I think it helps preserve the the history. It can muddy the waters. But I do think it helps the original history, right? Or eventually make separating history from mythology.

55:19It can make it easier, but it can also make it harder. So that's true. Yeah. So do you think people want cryptids to remain undiscovered? I think that there is like a romance about that, right? Like, it's always more interesting if it's just out of reach and we don't know what it is. The unknown, right? Yeah. No. Yeah. That's the unknown. There's a romanticism of it. Exactly. Exactly. So like that's that's the interesting piece, right? Is that can it even be proven? It's out there. I know it in my heart. And I think a lot of the times that also stems from some people who don't want it to be disproven, right? Which I get, which I understand too. But yeah, I think most of the time the allure of the unknown is almost more interesting to us than finding it. Because I mean, if we think about the animals that used to be cryptids that are now normal animals, like a platypus. Oh, why? A platypus if we had never seen it before. Oh my gosh. This

56:23amazing creature, the platypus. But now that we have them, it's like, yeah, okay, it's a platypus. So what? So I think I do think that they would lose some of their charm, honestly, if they became like these creatures. The platypus doesn't even make sense. I know. No. And that's when people thought I was a hoax forever. And I get it. What kind of mammal lays eggs and has a bill and all these crazy venomous spurs and come on. What is happening there? Crazy stuff. Because finding Bigfoot would answer the question, right? But it would also end one of the greatest mysteries of all time. American, have folklore, period. Absolutely. Then what did we do? What would I do? Go hunt dogman. I guess so. Look out there. No, it definitely would. And I think that's when cryptids stop becoming cryptids and start becoming animals, it's a lot less. Yeah. A lot less razzled, as well that way.

57:25That's a good way to put it. Yeah. What's one cryptid case? You think the community, the cryptid community focuses on far too much. Big. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, you can. It's definitely true. I mean, it's the big guy, right? That's, but yeah, but just to say that because he's the big guy, I'm trying to think of another one that's maybe like, well, I mean, the easy answer for me would be Mothman. But I do think that people focus more on the idea of the creature than the legend. So I think that's a little unfair to. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I have had one person and I will only call this out because it was like kind of so ridiculous. One, when we made a video about the squawk. Now the squawk. Yeah, squawk has never has been said to really exist ever. Like nobody, nobody has

58:27also believed that it's real. That was the whole point of it. Right. You're so fake, but like nobody that's like, what is that the skink? Anyway, I'm sorry. No, no, no, it's okay. But it's like, it's like, for example, whoops snake, like whoops snake is not going to be out there as much as who loved the idea of a whoops snake. So we did the video on this phone and I had someone message me and they were like, I just don't understand like why you didn't like talk about some of the sightings and like the stories. Like it's definitely out there. Like super legitimately upset that I did not give it the time of day. And I was like, I can show the origin to you in the book. I forget like the exact name of the book, but it's like, fear some creatures of the lumber woods. It's like from a book. Like maybe it was a lumberjack story before that, but it's not anything that I can like go out and go grab. But there are some like that that just cracked me up a little bit. Like squonka polluza. Squonka polluza. I do know a lady who runs it and I do love her.

59:30So Lisa, this is not real. Yeah, it's it's because that's where we do a lot of our big foot stuff is in the Allegheny National Forest. Yeah, yeah. So Pennsylvania. Yeah. So we get I get the squonk all the time. I hear about it all the time, but yeah, never never seen anything. Never, you know, well, I think that's. But but I love the story. It's a great great. It's a great concept and it's a great stuffed animal. So I mean check marks for all of those. But yeah, as far as like actual cryptid. So like what's one obscure case that you think deserves more serious investigation than it gets? Van meter visitor is the easy answer. Or oh, no, you know what though, I won't I won't be basic. And I'll give you the end field for I think really interesting. I think that one is super, super interesting. And it was never like formally that investigation was never fully finished. There were like two sightings that were pretty much confirmed hoaxes. But I do think that the

1:00:33original story, even though it's a little odd has a lot of ability. So that would be my choice for like if if something were to be investigated further, I'd really be interested. But it's interesting too, you know, like that was the 70s. If there were one of these things, like maybe it's dead and we want to proceed again. Right. Yeah, yeah. Also. But that one has always interested me very legitimately. It's an interesting one. I really like that. Yeah. Is like, is there in a location that you genuinely like to investigate not not because it's famous, but because you think there's a reasonable chance something is actually happening there, like a place that you really want to go. Does underwater count. Yes, of course. I mean, I coming like growing up in Florida, I'm from Miami. So I would love to go see the bottom of the ocean. And I've always grown up like revering the ocean and fearing the ocean. I think

1:01:36I understand. I mean, the Bermuda triangles right there. As true, you just go hang out in there for a little bit, although that would be dangerous. I think for like geopolitical. This morning. They thought that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I would say. I mean, I'm, I guess, being from Miami also, I'm a jungle girl at the Amazon are being incredibly interesting. I have a couple cryptid stories from that area, but not too many that I've heard. But I'd also like to do a more thorough look at the Everglades, because that is kind of home to me. I grew up being out there all the time. And I think coming back through this lens would be really interesting. So those are those are my big two, I think the Amazon and the Everglades. Which the Everglades, I mean, might be gone soon, which is also crazy. So I wonder also how our development will impede these, these creatures and these investigations that we go on, you know. Yeah. So we're kind of coming to an end here. And I am going to ask you the final question.

1:02:43Hit me. What's the question nobody asks you that you wish somebody would? The question nobody asks me that I wish somebody would. It's probably this question. Yeah. Really? I see. I really wish nobody asked me this. No, I'm joking. I think honestly, it would be like how, how do I get started? Like, how do I start investigating? How do I start doing these? So answer this question. So I would say go support your local library. Now, so cool. The thing that I find fascinating is going into your own backyard and seeing what's out there. Like Van Meter, Iowa, I think is a population of like 2000 people, not really. But like, it's around that number. It is, it is not more than a five digit number. So go see what is in your backyard. And then learn more also from the people around you and go be in nature, go

1:03:47experience things for good or bad, you know, like those experiences are going to be the things that shape you and your perception all such grass right? Touch grass, dude. But I was talking to somebody recently and I wonder sometimes if my paranormal experiences, like I worked so hard to shut that down that maybe like I'm shutting down my ability to feel the biological side of things. So I think bottom line read about it, but also go be in nature and experience it and learn more about real creatures so that you can identify the real creatures from the ones that we have not yet identified. That would be my answer to that. Beautiful. Tell everyone where they can find you again. So everybody you can find us on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok. And we do have a book coming out shortly, like we mentioned before, so you can check that out on Amazon. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely.

1:04:49They said they saw it. They swear it was there. But every time the story gets told, something changes. Or legend. Tell me what you saw. Something in the tree line. Something's dead and tall. Nobody knows a thousand stories spreading. But where's the provisional? Tell me what you see. Bitfoot in the mountains. Muffman in the streets. Anything could be but once a story turns them with what can you believe? Trax in the mud. Noise in the trees. Something keeps moving but nobody sees. Ice burning red. Lights in the sky. Three separate witnesses. I'll say in the same thing that night. One says monster. One says beast. One saw. Something that shouldn't even be. Very photograph. Video tool. Now, yeah, I can make it. So what do you trust? That's true. Van Mita. No, but even is a man in the swamp. Red road dog man. Something waiting in the dark. Old stories coming back again. If ten thousand people saw something, can we dismiss all of them?

1:05:52Don't tell me what you want to believe. Tell me exactly what you're on as good see. No label, no legend, no explanation. Before the Indian and the Hens, you the interpretations. Tell me what you saw. Something in the tree line. Something's standing tall. Three in the mountains. Nobody knows a thousand stories spreading. But where's the provisional? Three in the mountains. Tell me what you see. Bitfoot in the mountains. There's mother man in the streets. We're not ledger. Anything could be but wants a story. Just a myth. What can you believe? Tick-tock changes it. Red it gives it names. YouTube cuts the footage. Now the whole thing ain't the same. First they add white skin. Now we say feet tall. First it walked away. Now we've finished. She's the walls. Portals. Hobbs. Missing time again. Meddling the forest with no reason for the sound. Nox in the timber. Worses in the night. Something circle in the fire. But it never hits the light. I don't need to tell you what you're supposed to think. Give me the story. Let me follow every link. Cause a perfect story can still be a lie. And the terrible photo grip doesn't mean nothing was outside.

1:06:52Mossmen. Real. Dogmen. Real. Saskwitch. Real. Wendy Go. Legend. Or something else. Hey. Don't name it yet. Watch it. Here it. Study it. Then we talk. Real or legend. Tell me what you saw. Something in the tree line. Something's standing tall. Real or legend. Nobody knows. A thousand stories. Bread and butter. Where's the provisional? Real or legend. Tell me what you see. Big foot in the mountains. My man in the street. Real or legend. Anything could be but once the story turns to mess. What can you believe? Some people see it. I never come back right. Some never speak about what happened that night. That tells me something more than chasing fame. When somebody gets uncomfortable just hearing that creature's name. What they saw, what they heard. What was moving? Just being on the woods. Could have been the bear. Could have been the lie. Could have been something. We haven't classified. And here's the question. Nobody wants to say. If we prove it for the system or what disappears that day. Give it the species. Give it the number and name. Put it in the text.

1:07:52Poking the mystery in the same way. Maybe the monster isn't changing. Maybe the story is. Maybe the story isn't changing. Maybe we are. Real or legend. Real or legend. Real or legend. Tell me what you saw. Something in the tree line. Something standing tall. Real or legend. Nobody knows. A thousand stories spreading. Where's the prove it shows? Real or legend. Something's still out there. Even if the story changes. Something put the fear there. Real or legend. I won't tell you what to believe. Because once the story becomes the monster. It's hard to know what you seem. Not every story is evidence. But not every piece of evidence has an explanation.

1:08:56Real or legend. Brap rock casting seats. What? Tell me what you saw. Tell me what you were there. But every time you tell the story. Something changes. Real or legend. Give it the number. Real or legend. Tell me what you saw. Real or legend. Nobody knows. A thousand stories spreading. Where's the prove it shows? Brap rock casting seats. Real or legend. Tell me what you saw. Tell me what you saw. Real or legend. Everything can be but when you do it. You don't know what to believe. Go in the tree. Go in the mountain. Something moves but nobody responds. This world can't be kept. One says it's a monster, another animal.

1:09:56Another God that can't explain. Photo or Rosa video. Also but with artificial intelligence. Who knows what? Go in the tree. Go down the tree. Go in the tree. Go in the tree. Go in the tree. Tell me what you want. Tell me exactly what you saw. Tell me exactly what you saw. Tell me. Tell me accordingly. Really? 元y bills. No better than money. Chandticeless. Even ferocious. Wanted to see a drink and gas. Wanted toiv be the famous penis. Give me a joke. Can't you see it? I believe I think I put it on I gave it to you, I gave it to you I cut it and grew it The first one was white Now it has skin The first walk Now it disappears

1:10:56Also I'm going to give it to you I see Time that was I put it on the mouth No one knows why I put it on the mother I'm going to say I'm going to say I don't need to say I think Just let me understand Because a good story can cheat A bad picture doesn't mean that it wasn't Mossman Real Dogman Real Sasquatch Real Gwendigo Leyenda Or something Hey Hey I put it on the name All the way Look at it Listen it Invest it Then we talk Real legend Real legend Tell me that you are A man in the mouth and you don't know Real legend No one knows why I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I put it on the mountain Mossman

1:11:56Real legend Everything can be But when I'm not the same And you don't know what to do The agent that I heard And it never was the same The agent that was without wanting to tell it It's a nightmare That he will look at attention When someone is afraid of this dimension What happens What I found What he had at night in the dark corner It can be a knife It can be a sharpness It can be something That has no classifications And this is the question No one wants to do If tomorrow we find a big one Because we are going to lose Because when they have a number And a location It is a part of my theory And it begins the division Maybe the monster is in changing Maybe the story is Maybe the story is in changing Maybe we are Real legend Real legend

1:13:00And I think you are a man in the dark And you don't know what real legend There is no military evidence It is a story It is a story But it is a proof Where is it? Something is still there Although the story is changed Something I heard here Real legend I will not solve it With whom when I admit And I don't know what to believe Not all of evidence But not all of evidence It has a story Real Real Or legend

1:14:05Real legend