D4vd: Three Grand Juries and Still No Indictment

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This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dree.

First degree murder with three special circumstances, continuous asabuse of a child mutilation

of human remains.

Those are the charges against David Anthony Burke.

Together they put the death penalty on the table.

We haven't heard if Hawkman is going to be pursuing it officially yet, but it is.

It's still there.

I mean, my goodness.

This has gone from a case where we were sitting here just a week or two ago going, maybe

this was just all a horrible accident and then the cover up and it's not going to go

as far as death like somebody is going to get in trouble without a doubt, but maybe this

isn't as sadistic as it looks.

It's as sadistic as it seems to look.

Whoever did this, whether it's David or whoever, Eric Fatis Defense Attorney, former prosecutor

is with us along with Robin Drake, retired FBI Special Agent, Chief of the Counterintelligence

Behavioral Analysis Program.

Eric, let's talk about one of the things that DA Hawkman has said, financial gain.

That's one of the big things they're saying as being a motive reason for this event to

have taken place and very specific wording to to maintain a very lucrative musical career

that Celeste was threatening that night.

That's the quote.

That's what's in the document.

That's very specific.

I'm going to assume that they got something that very much points in that specific of a

direction to make that specific of a statement on a charging dock.

Oh, I would totally think so.

Actually, it's best practices to kind of keep a lot close to the vest because you don't

want all of your details out there because then defense can begin scheming immediately as

to how to thwart the prosecution efforts.

But here, these are very specific wording.

And my understanding is that the prosecution believes that David thought Celeste was going

to harm his career perhaps with the disclosure of some kind of information.

So in order to preserve his future earnings, he took allegedly horrendous measures to

try to silence that person.

And that's how they're weaving it into this sort of financial motive.

Yeah.

When I hear that language, in a lot of cases and a lot of things in life, there's a big

difference between what we think and theorize and what we actually know for fact.

And those are that's language to me.

It says, we know this as fact and Eric, when you hear language like that, is it typically

you think common because you have a source that gave it to you or is it because you actually

have digital evidence of some sort?

We actually have something in writing or some sort of forensic.

My mind goes to the digital forensics, Robin.

You know, I'm sure that the prosecution has Celeste's digital devices and her accounts

and the conceit, which she was talking about, which she was texting to people, which

she was emailing people potentially.

And I'm wondering if it is based in something like that because you usually don't make

such a strong affirmative statement about the specific evidence you have unless you got

the goods.

Yeah.

That's why I was thinking too.

You can't argue what exactly is said.

It's not subjective.

It's right here.

Yeah.

I mean, I would guess that it has to be some sort of a tax journey.

I mean, get my speculation, but something of that nature of, you know, if I get all

conjecture, but, you know, if you leave, if I leave you, I'm going to, you know, if you

don't do this, I'm going to expose your, you know, doing this with a child and God knows.

What I also find interesting here and Robin, you had touched on it a little bit and this

is some of the details and I'm not trying to get gory or gruesome.

It's not what we do here, but I mean, it is a part of the case now with what we're learning

of what was done to her body.

We've known that she's been cut up for quite a while.

We already got that done, but now we're learning it, according to the authorities here

and the medical examiner, it looks like there was apparently stab wounds or something of

that nature on the body.

They have ways of telling if those were received prior to the rest of the chopping.

That's interesting to me, and especially the location of where they seem to have been.

The abdomen area, liver damage, things of that nature.

I mean, if you're going to stab somebody, I guess, with the intent of murder, I don't

know, I've never done it, but that's not exactly where you aim, you know, to initially make

that happen.

The whole thing is weird.

The whole thing, again, it just makes you wonder what exactly is going on here and then

also the dismembering was not, it doesn't appear to just be to fit it into the trunk or

the frunk, like there's fingers that were cut off and things of that nature.

What the hell do you make of that?

The fingers bothered me.

Everything bothers me.

I mean, this went from what I was hoping was going to be accidental stupidity to really

gruesome.

I mean, beyond gruesome.

When I saw fingers, my mind automatically starts going to trophy.

When you start seeing things as potential trophies by this type of, that just triggers

a whole different avenue of chaos and evil as...

I went to witchcraft with it almost, just with the darkness of his music and everything.

I'm like, is he trying to live his image to a real crazy extent of like, you know, we're

going to...

It's part of a sacrifice.

I don't know.

I mean, it's just weird.

I just started seeing more severe mental illness.

Yeah, probably.

Yeah.

You probably more.

I'm not more of a pragmatic side.

I try to use language that can relate to everyone from where they come from, but I just

see much more mental derangement going on here.

When you get in a group thing, and then when you...

We talked about this yesterday, too, you know, and Eric, I'm curious whether you think

this is going to come into play with prosecution and defense trying to go against it.

But his lyrics of his songs, a lot of people can, you know, it's art.

It has nothing to do with real life, necessarily.

But when you actually are seeing art imitating life and seeming to have in these overlaps

and a congruence between the two, that could be a potential...

Potential really difficult for the defense overcome.

What do you think?

Yeah.

I mean, I think that that's going to be part of the theme, part of the story, part

of the narrative that the prosecution puts forth is that this person may have been

an eccentric artist who became so delusional and so entrapped in his own fantasy of being

some kind of macabre artist that he began acting out.

You know, he has a song, I think it's called Romantic Homicide.

I think there's a video for it and it contains a person who's so, so lost.

And there are some pretty macabre lyrics in there.

And so what's this just, in David's mind, some extreme artistic expression or something

as absurd as that might sound to you and me, perhaps someone who is so into that fantasy

and perhaps the resubstances involved too, I don't know.

That could be sort of the perfect storm for someone to begin acting out on what they

might view in part as extreme art, which is a gross way to even think about this.

But perhaps that's how David was thinking about it.

People do.

God, I can't, yeah, is there ever been a case you can think of where extreme art goes

into the defense or the prosecution of this?

I mean, I can't think of anything.

I mean, you know, what comes to mind, Tony, is certainly not to this level, this, this,

you know, we're talking homicides, just never, but you know, you look at artists, extreme

artists like Jiu Jiao Lin.

He was sort of punk rock artist in the 70s and 80s.

And he would throw excrement.

He would get in physical fights with people attending his shows.

He would spit and puke on people who are just at his shows.

There are so who are going to who are inclined to take things to an extreme level.

This would be the most extreme that I've seen.

Do you think they have any concern about the first degree murder charges and is that

why we're seeing the continuous essay of a child, the mutilation of human remains and

additional possible enhancements going on here?

All the additional charges that are on here, or is it just, well, we're going to throw

everything we possibly can at him because it appears that he did all of these things.

Or are they stacking extra things in here because it's just, it might be very difficult

to prove murder.

My interpretation, Tony, of the complaint and some of the public statements the prosecution

has made is that they are sort of teaming this up and they are building a compelling narrative

in terms of this wasn't some isolated freak event.

It was something that was building over the course of time for very specific reasons.

And so that's why they have the child essay charges.

That's kind of the precursor.

That's where the prosecution believes this starts.

It escalates and it gets worse.

And it sounds like the prosecution might believe that David thought this info would come

out.

That would ruin his career.

He'd be done forever and proved to be a prison for a long time.

And so that provides a potential motive for him to silence a witness.

And he's in fact specific, there's a specific aggravating circumstance of, of silencing a

witness who my understand is Celeste.

And so I think they're building this narratives and, and sort of telegraphing that in the way

that they brought charges.

Yeah.

And I did just look it up.

There are actually cases where, where these horrendous murderers actually used art as their

reason for the dead things most notorious is Ed Gein.

The butcher plane.

Yeah.

The butcher plane field 1950s Wisconsin, treated body mutilization and dismemberment as a

form of personal artistic creation.

And he just lampshades.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And just think what the Nazis did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it's out there.

Yeah.

There are very, very sick twisted minds, again, when you get in the world of, of broken

brains and crazy nutters.

I once, I once, I once, I once DJed a party across the street from the cemetery where Ed

Gein is buried.

Yeah.

You live too close to too many weird things, Tony.

Yeah.

I like it.

My whole life is just surrounded and weird.

But people, but the, the, the headstone of Ed Gein, fun fact, has been stolen so many times

it's not there anymore, because people kept taking, I think they found it in Washington

state.

Now this is a Wisconsin crime.

So it's like, think, I mean, think of that.

I mean, think of moving a headstone.

I mean, bodies are one of like giant block of granite, but just for it, it's, yeah.

Yeah.

All of you when I look something up so, so obscured, you actually know it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you, can you, can you have that case Eric?

One time.

Had you heard of that case before Ed Gein?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Certainly.

I'm the only one.

Yeah.

No, there's, uh, Ed Gein, uh, when on Netflix, the monster series, they just remember they,

they did, uh, Dahmer and now they did Gein.

Right.

And, and I'll, I'll say this, the monster series on Netflix is pretty over the top.

Not exactly a historical document, but entertaining.

I will say that much.

Right.

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Brusky and the Hidden Killers podcast.

This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dree.

Let's move over to another topic here, another case.

The autopsy is out, the charges are filed and what came out of that courtroom on the one

year anniversary of the last day of Celeste Revis Hernandez was seen alive.

It's worse than most people were prepared for.

The cuters say they've got 40 terabytes of evidence, a wire tap, nobody knew about three

separate grand juries, uh, and exploitation material found directly on his phone.

Uh, his defense team response, speed it up, step on the gas, show us everything.

And the question that won't leave me alone, uh, the one that I think you might be sitting

with too is, uh, what were all the adults doing for 12 months between when this child

vanished and when someone finally smelled something wrong in a tow yard.

Your questions, uh, on sub stack on YouTube, drop them, we're going to try and get through

them as we, uh, we look at the, uh, the David case.

Let's start here, uh, Robin, uh, his lawyers are demanding a faster hearing strategy.

Some people wave the right to a speedy somewhere like let's step on the gas for different

reasons.

40 terabytes.

Uh, they haven't, uh, apparently seen yet.

Uh, what do they know that we don't, uh, that they're wanting this to, uh, move really

fast?

You know, this is such a Bob question.

It is.

I mean, it is, but I'm curious to get your conjecture on it.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of, I looked up, there's a lot of legal reasons for this.

That it's definitely unprecedented.

Typically they don't do this fast.

They don't want to move this fast, but there's one theory that I kind of have in my

mind.

Again, you place yourself in that situation.

And so I'm going to answer from a behavioral standpoint, not from a, a Bob Mata, uh, legal

stand for good friend Eric on the prosecution side as well.

I think there's so much, uh, oh, that just happened with the release of the autopsy result

and the terabytes and what we're seeing for, um, child's, uh, S things on his cell phone

and things like that.

The faster they move, the less that's known in the media, I think it's really about trying

to negate or at least lessen the huge negative impact or conjecture and all these things that

are coming out.

So let's move fast before people see even more.

I really think that's part of it because there is, with that much thing about that, terabytes

of information and none of it is any good, none of it's going to be to his benefit.

So if you want to not give people time to digest that much data, let's quickly move.

So you don't get to see that much data and let's try to get this thing moving.

That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah.

I mean, again, we don't, I'm not diagnosing him in a sense of proven guilty in our opinion

blah, blah, blah allegedly put that in front of everything, um, the, um, narcissists

don't like their masks slipping and, and if David is a narcissist, which it kind of

appears that he may be, he seems to have some of the traits, um, the last thing they,

they want is exposure and, and, I mean, this is why we've seen so many cases where we

get right up to trial and they're professing their innocence right up into life and suddenly

it's like, Oh, guess what?

It's show time.

Here comes a spotlight.

It's about to shift on to you.

I did it.

Shut the show, shut the show down.

Ew.

Yeah.

Okay.

Rex Huriman.

Rex Huriman, Brian Coburger.

I mean, we see it in a lot of cases like that.

Full control control.

1000%.

And if that's, and, and they will exercise any, any monochrome of control that they can

get because that's big to them.

That's all they have left.

So it's going to be a big deal and they're going to go on it full force.

So I'm thinking you're right.

I think that's probably some level of this, the less that can just linger out there into

the ether, the better, but at the end of the day here, I mean, sorry, there's shit's

going to linger out there forever.

Yeah.

This is part of the record.

And I think as soon as, I think part of the strategy too, again, we're going to make

our list for Bob tomorrow.

Yeah.

I think part of the strategy here could also be for the defense to get all the, the information

for discovery as fast as they can before the media gets it.

So they can make their determination as fast as possible and put a plea to, plead on

deal together.

I think, you know, I know Bob said it last week and the week before as well.

I'm, I'm leaning on with this much information, with this many bad things going on.

I, I, I can't imagine it going to trial.

I mean, and again, but you never know on these things, but, but there's so much information

it looks like.

And I think in order for, to keep control the narrative, to actually have any potential

for a, a plea deal of any, of any site, I think that's why I think they just want to move

to that as fast as possible so they can actually have a good choice amount of how to do it.

Yeah.

Like where we're going to go here is, and this is just my non legal expertise, my legal

expertise comes from talking to Bob a lot.

Right.

I know we're checking her in her.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, so that's what that, my gut on it is, we're looking at a situation here where

death could possibly be on the table.

Yeah.

Great.

And, and I think that might be the only, that's the only, you know, piece that, that

he has on the board to play with anymore is, okay, plead out and we're not going to

try you for the death penalty.

Yep.

And you're going to be gone forever, but at least you won't die.

That's right.

That's right.

I'm going to.

Yeah.

That's why you and I are aligned.

We'll salt Bob with it tomorrow.

Okay.

I had a question for you guys.

I was thinking about that.

Yeah, Todd.

Well, he, you know, it seems like there's some dark stuff in this kid's mind, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Would he enjoy the death penalty?

Oh, God.

Like, like the process, like, like being on death row, like, yeah, like going for the

ride essentially because that's a long stretch, right?

That's a long stretch of time.

Well, it's like his music videos.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's a really interesting question.

It's really interesting because I mean, you know, he's going to be creating art around

all these things because he's all about the dark imagery.

So he's going to be using something with it.

I really, I'd be really curious about, and again, now we're shift on to Shavon on Wednesday.

I wonder about this because people like this have a lot of suicidal idealization, a lot

of times too.

I'd say if he had a suicidal idealization, he might be willing to go down that route.

But if he, but if he sees himself as the martyred artist behind bars, I think it also

be interesting too is, is there a son of Sam Law where he's being convicted because

he could really profit handsomely behind, I mean, think about the following he has.

I think there is.

I mean, it's California.

I mean, there's, there is some, whether it's called son of Sam there, I don't know, but

there's something in place.

Right.

So he can't profit from, yeah, they can't take the proceeds from anything to, so I think

all those things are what the defense is going to weigh in on that.

But really good insight in, in question, Todd.

I mean, I mean, I mean, we kind of thought that way about Cobur a little bit too.

Like, he's, is he enjoying the ride here?

Is this part of what he wanted?

But he didn't go for the whole trial.

I think that would be part of the ride.

I would think if you, if you did this, you'd want to go on, but I don't know.

I mean, they, they can kind of pick and choose where they want to use their fast pass,

if you will.

And I, and I'll definitely play in, you know, so if he wants to go full trial, no one

he's going to get convicted anyway, again, it's, I was just, keep coming back to tell

us with using a real life for all their song lyrics, you know, and he's doing the same thing.

I mean, he's using his real life, his real horrendously dark evil life for his art.

And so being going through the trial, so I think if he wants to not share with the

world, the things he did and things he did to others, he would control it and plea out.

But if he's proud of it, if he thinks it's part of his narrative of how he's living

his life, he wants to expose.

So I think, I think the plea, if he pleads or not, will be really telling and all that.

I think this is an interesting question here and I want to, I want to give a quick answer

before I toss it to you after I read it.

They say this is from Steph via something or is it, this is from email, they said financial

gain as a special circumstances, they're saying he allegedly ended a child's life to protect

a music career.

This is a line that gets me.

How does a person get that far gone?

And I think a lot of people are wondering, how are you that far gone?

How do you get that far gone?

It's hard to get that far gone if you were never there to begin with.

And I think that that's something that we forget, especially with some of these cases where

they're this young.

I mean, I know he's like 21 now or something, 19 is earlier.

So he was still a damn kid, he wasn't there.

You can't get gone if you were never there.

If you've just developed into this and you've had an ecosystem that has allowed you to

become this, you were never gone.

You're just functioning as you've been essentially bred, as you've been raised, as you've been

conditioned, if you will, by your thinking, by your surroundings, by a lot of different

things.

I don't know that some of these people were ever there to get gone.

I don't know your thoughts.

Yeah, I don't think he was ever there either.

So let's do our thought experiment right here.

So here's someone that had a lot of early success before the prefrontal cortex fully

formed, before the age of 24, which means we're highly emotionally impulsive.

We're not really clear thinkers on things.

And he had zero guardrails.

Even though he comes from apparently a religious family, he didn't appear to have any guardrails,

whatsoever about what he could or he couldn't do.

He had all the wealth he needed to do whatever he wanted to do.

He attracted more nutters around them, all before the prefrontal cortexes and lobes

are fully formed, so they're all completely back shit crazy, and no guardrails, and then

you have proclivity for doing horrendous things to underage people.

Yeah, it was never there.

I don't think there was a semblance of healthy thoughts that was in his life to that point.

Before we saw or started hearing some discovery stuff, again, I was admittedly, I was on

the camp.

This human being couldn't possibly have done anything horrendous.

It must have been a mistake to cover up, again, prefrontal cortex not fully formed.

You have a panic escalation to try to do something because you mistaken whether it's drug

overdose or doing stupid party, whatever it was, and she died accidentally.

Nope.

I don't think that I'm all on board with just broken from the beginning, no guardrails,

and bad crap really happened.

There was a question here in the comments I wanted to go back to.

It's about Celeste parents.

I just did even more research on them, too, about David and Celeste families.

Yeah.

This is one of them.

I'm not going down the road that they were paid or anything like that, but it says,

yeah, so stranger Celeste parents, she knew where she was.

We don't know for sure, but they had listed her as missing, but it does seem a lot

of people knew where the hell she was.

She wasn't like missing in the sense of she's on the side of a milk carton.

Oh my gosh.

Where did she go?

She was coming and going from the family dynamics here, pretty much up towards the end.

Maybe not in the trunk or a tessa.

They let their little girl essentially live with a grown man.

Why didn't they call the cops getting money?

Maybe that's the question.

I'm not saying that.

I'm not insinuating that.

I think it's a fair question to ask.

I think all that needs to be looked into when I hope they already have.

But yeah, I'm not in the camp here of just giving Celeste parents a free pass here either.

I know they're grieving.

I know this is horrendous.

I cannot imagine going through it, but there is responsibility to be had.

When you're a parent of a 13 year old girl, she's not an adult.

And sometimes you have to be a parent.

I don't give a flying fuck how much you're working, how much you have to do this, how much

you have to do that.

Number one priority is your child.

And clearly by seeing the way the dynamics of this family worked, that child was not

the number one priority in my opinion, your thoughts.

I agree.

At the same time, this part confuses me, believe it or not.

I mean, I got, you know, I keep all my, you can see it.

I keep all my research.

Yeah.

Literally before we came on, I researched your parents again, what they did, what they

didn't do.

I see the comments right here, the PI's evidence that her family knew where she was.

Okay.

Maybe there's so much that you and I wouldn't do, but I'm going to, I'm going to pull the

Bob motto on this one where we don't know them.

We don't.

And so I, I don't want to cast shade if they did do all what they've read.

I mean, if they're, it says here that they weren't contact with police a lot trying to

find her, but at the same time to everyone else's point, everyone else seemed to know where

she was.

How you showing up on security camera footage, you showing up on, I mean, it's not, again,

I don't, I don't, I don't get it.

I mean, that's what I mean, I don't get it.

I just, so what I, here's what I would expect.

I would expect if they didn't give a rat's ass that there'd be one police, one police

report and not another, but we have multiples, but not multiples with tons of follow-up

it looks like.

I mean, just like, see what I mean?

It's just, and they're, I think they gave a rat's ass to a certain extent.

Yeah.

Not, so I guess it's, you know, it's, it's kind of like, it's kind of like being on

a spectrum.

I think, you know, you have you and me and all our followers, obviously, getting a rat's

ass, which is way up here.

And then you have their family, which wasn't down at zero, but maybe like right around

three on a scale of one to ten.

They don't know.

The, the other area of this that I, I don't have the answer to that I think would tell

us a lot about it is, and I'm just going to be very blunt about it.

She was a missing brown girl.

And we know how that works.

I think that plays into it.

In a lot of cases, where if she's a missing white blonde girl, oh, well, there you go.

You're, you know, headline story for Ashley Bannfield.

But on something like this, and I'm not casting dispersions on Ashley Bannfield, I'm just

saying that's, you know, how that sort of shit works in terms of where attention seems

to go.

And, and even deeper what people click on, people always ask, why did they only cover

this?

Why didn't they cover that?

Because guess what?

The public's interest.

If we put out two different videos tomorrow, one was about this, one was about that.

And I'm going to say, I really hope this one over here that's much worse about the little

brown girl gets a lot more attention.

Guess what's going to get more attention, not that one.

And that's not me.

That's not you.

That's society.

That's the world doing what they do, making bad choices and not prioritizing every human

as being on the same playing field.

And that's shitty.

But it is, it is the world we live in.

But I do wonder how much of that played into this in terms of the police response, the

police investigation before you got the rest of the world with talking about this, the

podcasting, the, the news coverage of all of that, when she was missing for all of that

time before this murder took place.

We didn't hear about it.

We didn't really know this little girl was missing, that there was a connection to this

star.

None of that was a story.

I'm kind of thinking it might have been if there was a little blonde white girl that

had been hanging out with the music artist.

And then suddenly she's missing, that probably would have been a story.

But for whatever reason, it wasn't.

And I question, and again, I don't know the answer to this, but I do wonder what the

response was from authorities of like, ah, she just to run away.

And it was just being handled like they do the other hundreds of thousands of runaway

cases of, well, we hope she shows back up.

Good luck.

I definitely think that was part of it.

We've seen it in too many cases for it to not be part of it.

But I think it's, I think it's one of a couple data points, probably that led to this

being the way it was.

So you have that as a, as a data point.

Then I think also when you have private investigators over and you have people knowing where she is.

And when, whether the family knew directly or a one degree separation told the family,

well, she's hanging out with this guy, David, who's this music guy, he's got a lot of money.

If you've got a chaotic life at home and you're dealing with a lot of chaos and trauma

and you know that one of your kids is not here, but she's seen, I hear from the grapevine

she's fine.

You can rationalize not doing more about it.

Again, pure conjecture, pure, pure hypothesis.

But when you put all these things together, cops aren't paying attention to it because it's,

it is what it is.

Yeah.

Then you have no pressing from the parents because, and also we don't know what the cops

knew about where she was or not because they could have said the same thing.

They said, well, if she's over here, we have, because remember, everyone's always working

with bandwidth.

So here you have thousands of missing kids claimed, thousands.

And you happen to know that the ones, the majority of the ones that are going missing, they're

about to be trafficked.

And then you have one that's reported missing, but we know she's over here with this dude

with limited bandwidth as, as a law enforcement professional, where you're going to focus.

Where's the family going to see what it means?

So it's, they, I believe that probably too many people thought she was safe where she

was when she actually wasn't.

It's a lot of looking back and could have should have would have.

It feels like in this case, your thoughts in the comments section on substack and, and

YouTube.

I don't know.

I, I, I, I'm willing to hear anything in this case about how all of these things

worked.

I, I do not know the answers to these questions, but I think they need to be asked about the

responsibility and what roles people were playing at what time in Celeste's life or what

they were not playing a role in where they should have been.

These are serious questions.

And I'm still more on his parents all of well, every damn one of them, every damn one

of them.

Because they're all underage.

Yeah, well, they were.

Yeah, I mean, David was nine, at a time he was, yes, I know, and I know legally we got

that that whole 18 year old thing, but anyone old under the age of 24, I think is an underage

more.

I agree, I agree.

Well, potentially.

Mentally, to be there as a responsible parent, yes, but again, there's, there's, this is

a bad recipe.

The whole damn thing is a bad recipe.

Young fame suddenly falling into money, fall, you know, the shelter, the religiosity, the

situation of Celeste, I mean, they're, everything is a bad.

The whole damn recipe is shit.

And when you mix all that together, you get something like this.

And I think that's where we're at.

Again, your thoughts, your thoughts in the comments section and substack and YouTube as

we continue to work our way through it.

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