Daniel in Exile

The discussion you are about to see is not a fanciful tale of conspiracies.

Cover ups.

Or secret societies, it is a work of fact based on the accounts of the men and women who did the research

or experienced it and lived to share their stories.

This is a view from the bunker.

Imagine you're a teenage kid and you are suddenly dragged off to a foreign land by a foreign army

thrown into a school to train you with a bunch of pagan polytheistic sorcerers

and then put in front of the most powerful king in the world of your day and told to interpret a dream

you don't even know what it is.

Welcome to a view from the bunker.

I'm Derek Gilbert.

That is essentially the story of Daniel or at least the beginning of the story of Daniel.

And before we dive into that just if you would take a moment, if you're watching us on YouTube,

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Our guest this week is the author of a brand new novel that tells the beginning of the story of Daniel.

There's a lot in Daniel chapter one.

It's untold and this is where the gift of an award-winning screenwriter for his first feature film.

It was to end all wars which starred Hollywood Hollywood.

Heavyweights, key for Sutherland and Robert Carlisle.

He's a filmmaker, professional writer, the best selling fiction author of a series that we recommend.

Chronicles of the Nephilim, Chronicles of the Apocalypse.

And this series into which the novel we're discuss this week falls Chronicles of the Watchers.

This is book six of nine.

Daniel, exile in Babylon.

It is our honor to welcome back to the program, our friend Brian Gedala.

Brian, thanks for joining us on the program this afternoon.

I got to say, you know, Sharon, I keep saying every time you put out a new book, he needs to slow down.

He's making us look bad.

That's not true.

That's not true.

This last book took me a year.

Now, I usually do do like a novel and a research book in one year.

So I do do roughly two books in a year, but this one was a little bit slower.

But the next ones will become quicker.

I can relate to one book taking a year.

But I also understand when you get into a groove and it really starts to flow.

And I can imagine the story of Daniel, just to build on that idea.

When you got into the story, and this is the first of a trilogy, of course,

how hard was it to just say, okay, stop.

I'm going to cut the storyline here instead of continuing on.

Yeah, well, so the novel's name is Daniel exile in Babylon.

And it's the first of a trilogy.

And the reason why, you know, when I first came at it, I just, you know,

first of all, I've written these series, Crunk of the Watchers,

Crunk of the Nephilim, Chronicles of the Apocalypse.

And they're all based on this divine council motif and the spiritual warfare and all that.

So those who know my work will know it, but those who don't just, you know,

the concept is I'm retelling biblical stories where they have the watchers or the giants

that are in that context.

And it's, of course, based on the various scriptures throughout.

But interestingly, I've written all these like 16 novels now.

And yet I had never written the story of Daniel where it has one of the most explicit passages

of the Prince of Persian, the Prince of Greece, and the term watchers is in there, right?

So you'd think I would have written that earlier, right?

But I don't know why I didn't, to be honest.

But I finally have, and so I sat down, okay, so this is, maybe this will be my,

my sort of, what do they call it, the climactic, you know, Magnum.

Well, no, no, that's the opening.

Isn't that an opening?

The penultimate, that's it.

Okay.

The penultimate book, because I have one more planned after this, that's going to be really cool.

But I realized as I was looking into the Daniel's story and realized,

okay, how am I going to do this?

I realized, oh, there's more here than one novel.

And then, so the question is, how do I do that?

Well, the first, the reason why I chose this particular story,

which this particular story covers the first three years of Daniel's deportation in Babylon,

because it covers his training in the School of Magi,

which is actually called the House of the Tablet, literally, in Babylon.

But, you know, it's where he was schooled to become a wise man.

And the reason why I chose that, which is basically only Daniel won,

which is, you know, that's pretty surprising.

People go, what?

But the reason why I did that was because as you go into Daniel's story,

you realize, you know, he's got these amazing stories, of course,

and the miracles and stuff.

But how did he get to be where he was?

You know, it just kind of, chapter one sort of just says,

oh, you know, he went and was taught the language and culture of the calledians.

And then Nebuchadnezzar said, you're 10 times better than all the magicians and sorcerers in my kingdom.

And I thought about that.

I thought, you know, now we need a minute.

Like, he's 10 times better than all the magicians and the enchanters.

And I'm like, how could a Jewish, and his three friends, you know, as Raya?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, we for remember the Babylonian names.

Exactly.

But they were as Raya, Hannah, and I, and me, Shack.

Right.

And they were along with him.

And they had this conviction where obviously they would be willing to lose their lives and not worship idols and all that kind of stuff.

And that very powerful story, elements.

But I thought, how would he live that out when he's being taught?

How to divine from livers?

How to study astrology?

Right.

All this divination technique that makes him 10 times better than the others.

Well, I try to address that in the story.

But more importantly, I thought that in and of itself is an amazing story.

Right.

And so I realized this is kind of like Harry Potter meets God.

Right.

So he goes to the school of magicians.

Right.

And I realized, you know, this is interesting because, you know, he could be as young as 14 years old.

At that time period, I have him as 16 or 16 when he starts.

There's no real solid date on how old he was.

But he could have been that young because he was already a noble learning in the, you know, in Jerusalem.

And probably around the palace.

Because Nebuchadnezzar had them take nobles and royal sons who were in the palace to become, to be trained for wise men in Babylon.

So that whole setup to me was so fascinating.

And I thought, you know, plus it's youth.

And, and I thought it'd be a great opportunity to wrestle with that issue of how did Daniel become,

get to that point where he was a man of conviction.

And, and I say that because I do have him as a person, a human being with character flaws,

as well as his, his three brother or, you know, his three fellow Jewish comrades.

Because we have to remember that the Bible shows us the highlights.

It doesn't show us all, you know, when you read Daniel, it's like he's always a perfect, sinless person almost, right?

But we know that's not true.

And so I thought, well, what kind of person could he have been to become that kind of person?

And that's the story that I told setting it up.

And of course, because of that, we're not going to get into one of the things that most people who love Daniel are interested in is other than the lion's den and the furnace of fire.

It's the prophecies.

So the prophecy stuff doesn't come till the second novel and the third.

And let me tell you, it's going to be huge.

But, but I just thought this is fascinating enough.

And lo and behold, it did turn out to be what I think is probably one of my best stories.

My editor has told me that and my first reader fans have said, this is the best story you've told.

Because it sort of combines all the stuff I've been dealing with in all this series.

But also, because I'm obviously creating a fictional story that will help to make sense of what we know of the biblical story,

I had a little freedom there to sort of, you know, work it out.

But also at the same time, deal with events of history, of the caldian kingdom of that time, to bring that in in the story in a way that will be very informative for people as well.

That's one of the things I appreciated just looking at the list of characters.

You've got a helpful page that is linked from your page about the book.

And I will put those links in the show notes of the characters.

And you provide very, very helpful illustrations.

You with the artist Cam Harlus or Harness rather.

Harlus. Harlus, okay. It was right the first time.

For each of the characters, so people who read the book can then visualize who exactly is doing what when.

And that's very helpful. But I will say as a screenwriter coming from Hollywood, your writing style is very visual to begin with.

I picked up on that very from the very first novel, you know, Noah Primeval and Enoch Primordial.

It's like, these should be movies.

And so you've got the characters there and describe some of their characteristics, some of their personalities.

And again, finding that very interesting. But you also get into the Divine Council concept.

And I think most of us, growing up in church, were given sort of the flannel board, Daniel, you know.

In the lion's den, statue of Nebuchadnezzar, things like that.

And Gabriel come to visiting him and giving him a message.

But the influence of the spirit realm is not really depicted or taught to us, even though it's implied in the Bible.

How did Daniel, or even though it's explicit in Daniel, right?

Daniel Ten.

Daniel Ten.

And of course, Gabriel, who had a wrestle with the Prince of Persia to get there, that's kind of hard to work around.

And Daniel Fort with a watcher descends and said, okay Nebuchadnezzar, your punishment decreed by the watchers.

So it's more explicit in Daniel than it is in a lot of books.

But it's still not really taught to us and certainly not preached from the pulpus.

Or at least most pulpus.

Our friend Doug Van Dorn, I'm sure, has gone deep into this during his sermons over the course of his pastoral career.

How does the Divine Council concept manifest in the Daniel, the Daniel exile in Babylon?

I think, and again, another interesting facet, I think, what about competition amongst the fallen?

Yeah.

So what you're pointing to is one of the signature components of my whole series, which is the premise is that if it's true that there are these princes over nations and their spiritual princes, like Daniel Ten, Prince of Persia, Prince of Greece,

and of course, those of us, you know, know about this, have studied this, and I know your audience is very familiar with it.

The idea is from Deuteronomy 32 versus 8 through 10.

And I think Psalm 82 is a good sort of embodiment of the whole picture of it.

But the idea is that there are spiritual princes, principalities, that's what Paul talks about, principalities over earthly authorities.

So there are spiritual authorities over earthly authorities, and they're connected in some way.

We don't always know how, but they're, they're hints at it.

And the idea is when there's an earthly war, there's a spiritual war going on.

When a earthly king falls, say to another, to another kingdom, there's a falling of the spiritual powers as well.

So there's a unity in there that the ancient world all believed, right?

Not just the Jews, but they all believe that.

And so my premise was, well, okay, if that's true, then that means there's a story going on in that spiritual realm, and we only get glimpses like through a window in the scriptures.

So I thought, well, why don't I try to play out or, you know, dramatically fictionalize what might be going on in the spiritual realm while the historical biblical things are going on as well.

And so what, and I try to mirror them, that's the key.

And that's the, that's the entertaining, interesting part of it is, I've got two stories going on, the earthly biblical story with Daniel, et cetera, and the king, Nebuchadnezzar, et cetera.

But then I have the, you know, the gods of Babylon and the gods of Egypt and stuff, and they're, and they're, they're at play as well.

But what's going on in their world, kind of reflects, or mirrors what's going on in the, in the historical realm.

And, you know, again, this is fictional, but one of the, so what I do is I say, okay, you know, how does the taxonomy of that world work out?

We don't really know fully.

And so I took the, you know, in my series, I took the premise that, you know, there's 70 Gentile nations at first, right?

And so that's roughly what the text is talking about, but, you know, it doesn't say there's a one-to-one correspondence, you know?

So I, I assume the presence that there are many watchers, some of them are appointed as leaders, but of course they're going to have helpers or assistants, just like any, they're, they're being, they're personal beings, right?

So personal beings have relationships, right? And if we read about there being spiritual armies at war, good and evil, then that means they're, they're kind of grouped together.

So my premise was there may be a prince of Babylon, which in this case is Marduk, because based on the Babylonian mythology, Marduk was the king of the gods, right?

And I also bring these other gods in their Naboo, Ishtar, et cetera, and these are other watchers who are also taking their identities as gods of the nations as they're jocking for power.

Now some of them had, just like in the real world of evil people, evil personal beings, so evil spiritual beings have plans of their own.

Yes, they're united in their plan to fight God, but like the Mafia, earthly Mafia, there's going to be people who want to take power and take over.

And so, and since that reflects what's going on on earth, I do that in my story as well.

The other thing I do is is I try in the spiritual realm story about Marduk and Naboo and and Horus and Ra going on in Egypt, because don't forget, at this time period, Babylon was at odds and in hostility against Egypt, so that comes into play.

But within Babylon itself, I have them, what I do is I draw from Mesopotamian mythology and I like to try to bring some of those stories and incorporate them into the spiritual world story so that when you're reading my story, you're not just being entertained by a fictional idea, you're actually learning about at least the religious worldview that they had in those days.

Let me give you an example of it. So in this story I have, while Marduk is, you know, is he's the Prince of Persia and Ahura Mazda is going to be the Prince of Babylon.

Ahura Mazda is going to be the Prince of Persia and I have Amun Ra at that time as the Prince of Egypt.

And then, and Baal, of course, would be the Prince of Canaan at that time. And since Israel had fallen away, they were worshipping the Canaanite gods, those gods had an influence and ability to fight against the Archangels.

So at the risk of going too far, too much into only the spiritual side of things, there's an ancient myth called the Anzumith.

You know, and the idea is that there's this huge hybrid bird that's like part line, part eagle and all this, and a snake for a tail and all this.

And there's a myth about him stealing the tablet of destiny, destinies from Marduk and that's in the Inuma Elish, which is the creation of it, right?

So that's very relevant to the way they're picturing the creation of the world versus the creation of the world for Israel, right?

So in the spiritual realm, the tablet of destinies, and I come up with a very unique way that's interestingly, theologically connected to the Old Testament.

But anyway, the tablet of destinies is sort of like the power. It's like the one ring, right? And so whoever has that is going to be the Prince. And so Marduk has it.

But there's a time when Anzum steals the tablet of destinies and Marduk has to hunt him down and kill him to get it back.

That's an actual Mesopotamian story. Well, I worked that into the storyline of this, of this Daniel novel, just, just again, this is all spiritual world thing.

We don't know there could be spiritual beings like there's, right? There's Cherubim and Seraphim and all this kind of stuff.

So why couldn't there be also evil demonic beings that are also like that in the spiritual realm? So that's kind of the picture that I explore.

And what I'm trying to do with that whole spiritual war motif.

You know, that's fascinating because for you in a nonfiction setting, I kind of speculated on the same thing in my book, Bad Moon Rising, with what appeared to be a changing of the guard, if you will.

If you go through the Old Testament, it seems like there are, it starts out with Moldek being the first deity that God warns the Israelites.

Well, let's do not worship this entity, period, end of story.

And then the Moon God seems to come in, seen the mountain where Moses got the law, was Mount Sinai in the wilderness of Sin.

And then he seems to fade into the background and bail takes over as the Israelites move into Canaan.

And then you got a Marduk as the Babylonians take over in the 6th century BC.

But in the background, the Moon God is still lurking because the last king of Babylon, 50 years after Nebuchadnezzar and after the time of Daniel.

Nabanitis was a scene worshipper and wanted to replace the worship of Marduk with scene.

So yes, yeah, it's how do you, how do you factor all this? And in the background, you got Ishtar, who in her earlier incarnation is Inana among the Sumerians.

Yes, yes, something very much like the tablet of Destiny, something called the mes from Uncle Enki, who I understand appears as E out.

That's the Akkadian name of Enki in Daniel, ex-Island Babylon.

Yeah.

It's like politicians.

You know, we all want to take the guy out of the White House.

But we're going to fight like cats and dogs to be the next one to sit in the Oval Office.

That inana story, stealing tablet, I think I have that in my Enoch, Primordo book, which is one of my first books.

So I do do that. And just for your, you know, for your listeners, I actually, you are part of my research.

I do read your books on this stuff because you're one of the only other guys that I know who's who's who's researching the stuff that I'm interested in focused on and these concepts.

Now to be fair, there's so much changing that, you know, no, I don't have all of it.

But I try to do some of that at different times, showing the jockeying for power and how they're overthrown.

In fact, there is, I have that in the Babylon one as well.

I'm not going to reveal the plot, but there's an attempted usurpation that's going on as well between Naboo, who's the number two in power.

But he's the one who has access to the tablet at Destiny.

So yeah, that stuff is very fascinating.

But like you're saying, it kind of reflects what goes on in the real world.

Yeah, it's a real world. I mean the earthly world.

The natural realm.

Yeah, natural realm.

And not Naboo was a very prominent deity in Babylon at that time too, which is why you get all of these Babylonian kings, or called Ian kings, with Naboo as part of the name.

Naboo, Condeser, his father, Naboo, Palacere, one of the military leaders Naboo, Zeradon.

You only get one king who's even mentioned in the Bible from this period of history.

Whose name is Amel Marduk, or in the Bible, Evil, Maradok.

But the Theocrat or Theophoric name indicates who that person was dedicated to at birth.

So you've got a lot of Naboo worshiping going on.

And as the patron god of scribes who in a culture where nobody was literate except for this particular guild,

they were really powerful. It was like they were the lawyers and the bankers and the recorders of religious texts all rolled into one.

And that's what Daniel is learning.

And so the premise there is that he's going to be learning the language and culture of the Chaldean.

So he has to first, he has to learn what's the language, dude, a Catian.

He has to learn a Catian and then he has to learn Cuneiform.

And then he has to learn the mythology and history of Babylon.

So a lot of that is just informational.

So the question comes in is, but how does he deal with divination and such?

I'm not going to give the answer because I want to be dramatic and interesting to you.

But one of the things that are, there's, so there's a few elements.

I wanted to touch upon two.

Oh, you mentioned the characters, right?

I cast all my novels for my own interest because of my movie background.

And so you'll see the pictures and they look like, you know, movie characters from the MCU universe or something like that.

And because of AI, I'm able to get, you know, pretty much exactly what I wanted to look like, you know.

And that helps me actually.

Sometimes I'm creating those images as I'm writing because it helps me to picture the story as well.

But like you said, they're free on my website for each novel and as well as with Daniel.

And I tell a little bit about the characters to introduce you.

Like you said, it's helpful for people who want to help their visualization.

And versus those who may want to just, you know, have their own imagination, which is fine as well.

But what I was getting to on that was, oh, okay, so, so the characters are there.

And you'll see, and I do most all the major and minor characters, you know, except for maybe a few super minor characters.

I don't, I don't do so.

But yeah, so that helps to visualize.

And the second thing was, I wanted to, like in this particular story in Daniel, I wanted to,

okay, let me, let me, let me bring in one of my interests has always been the star of Bethlehem.

And the star of Bethlehem, I have much more to study on it, but there's been some, by the way,

evangelicals, and this is not liberals or anything, who have looked into the star of Bethlehem

and have made some good arguments, not saying they're absolute, but they've made some good arguments that

the star of Bethlehem was followed by Persian or Perthian magi.

And that magi comes from Babylon, which is where Daniel began.

So in the first century, the magi, who are pursuing a star, and there's something to do with that,

and it may not be supernatural in the sense of, you know, like a magical star,

but it actually might be connected to the astronomical things that are occurring in those days.

And I thought, well, why would, why would Perthians, you know, like if you know anything about the divination,

which I learned a little bit about from their astronomical slash astrological works,

they had everything mapped out, they kept track of all the stars movements and eclipses

and everything over like a thousand years, through Assyria and all the way back to

original Babylonian kingdom, all the way up to the new, new, new Babylonian kingdom.

So they've had so, they had so much records, and they really believe that this is where astrology comes in,

that, you know, the stars exerted influence on humanity.

The stars were divine, and they exerted influence on humanity.

But it wasn't like we have today where we separate astronomy from astrology, right?

Astronomy is the acknowledgement that, you know, in fact, you could even say that God is the one who, you know,

created all the stars, put them in the place, and he's doing something with his purposes, right?

And in fact, that's what I think the Jews actually, when you read, you know, Job and Psalms,

and there's reference to constellations, that's what they're saying, they're saying, no, the stars don't exert influence,

Yahweh does, and he's the one who created them all and put them in their place,

and he's the one that put them in there for the purpose of science, right?

So, the idea there is, well, what was it that, not only that, but like, what would the Magi following to find Christ?

Because they're pagans, and why are they coming to the backwater of Israel as if there's going to be the king of the world coming from Israel?

It doesn't make a lot of sense, unless Daniel's influence really was significant.

Now, we don't know how, because there's nothing in Daniel about it, right?

And it's not really explained in, you know, in the gospels, but that's one of the things I wanted to address,

and I came up with a solution that I thought was pretty interesting, it's going to play out,

and that was this notion of these, the Jewish captives are the ones who see the difference between this astrology and this astronomy,

and just like the book of Genesis, has this creation creator distinction that you don't see in other texts,

and there's a very much of a view, let's put it this way, a proto-view of a proto-scientific view of nature versus the creator.

Now, it's not, you know, obviously it's not worked out, but what I'm saying is,

the Jews are the first ones to bring in this notion of, the natural forces are not gods and deities,

they're actually, it's God who's doing that, right?

So I thought, well, what if, what if they're ones that bring that in during the days of Daniel,

and then that's, along with Daniel's prophecies, which probably were written down, and obviously that's included,

but in terms of the star stuff, you know, and so I brought in that into this novel in a way that's really cool,

and I think people are going to appreciate it. And it's, by the way, it's very similar to what Michael Heiser has written about,

and even what he talked about in some of his novels, it's a different version, but it's similar.

Yeah, and what she drew from Dr. E. L. Martin in a book called The Star that Estonish the World,

and Mike gave Dr. Martin credit for that, but that was where I was first introduced to it,

but it's a fascinating and plausible scenario, and when you think about this, if that is, in fact,

how the Magi of the first century AD had this information, then it was preserved for more than 500 years,

amongst the Magi in Persia, later Parthia, and that is phenomenal. And then it begs the question,

did God allow the Jews to be brought into captivity, but other called theans,

for the purpose of seeding that information that would then later point to Messiah?

Sure, sure. Yeah, so that's one of the components.

You know, there's so much that goes on here. Also the characters, you know, so yes, this is a story about Daniel,

and oh, there's all kinds of things. Yeah, there's all kinds of things we could talk about, right?

The liberal view of the book of Daniel, I had to wrestle with some of those issues and deal with them,

but also the characters of Daniel. We know about the three Jewish friends of his,

but we don't know anything about them. So I had to create characters for each of these that would be interesting in the story

and help be consistent with what we do know in the text.

And I'll just one more little Easter egg that I'll reveal is one of them is autistic.

I noticed that, yeah. No, no divergence, yes.

Yes, no, I diverged it, of course. They didn't have that word back then, right?

But I started out with that as an interesting concept, and it ended up,

and as a way he has photographic memory, right?

It's a way in which he could also become very proficient, maybe in, say, astronomy.

But he also ended up becoming far more crucial to the whole block of the whole story in a way that I didn't anticipate when I first started out.

So that's really exciting and interesting and different as well.

And then one other thing I definitely want to address is,

and I don't know if your listeners, how familiar people are with the book of Daniel,

but there has been a good argument that Daniel may have been a unit.

And I was aware of that when I first began, and I thought, well, I got to have a romantic story in here,

so how can I do that if he's a unit, right?

So I just started out to say, well, what's the percentage?

People are never sure. It's not sure.

So I just want to get an idea of, what kind of percentage of scholars?

And it's about 50-50 this.

Yeah, he could have been one, but he might not have been.

But in my own research, actually reading and discovering some of the documents written by actual neo-Assyrian and neo-Babolonian wise men,

I discovered a lot of interesting facts that pretty much told me, oh, as a matter of fact,

Daniel was more than likely not a unit.

It did not fit that world at all.

Now, the argument for it is, you know, it's very common in that time period,

and for many kingdoms too, when they get captives who are in the palace and such,

that they make them unique so that they can't pollute the bloodline or try to, you know,

bump in on the royal line, obviously, the harem and all that.

But that's inside the palace, you know.

And, you know, the Ash Panaz, who's over them is called, you know, the chief of Unix.

So, you know, you get this notion that, oh, and there's even a Bible prophecy about, you know,

sons of Hezekiah and stuff.

But here's the thing.

When you look at the texts of the wise men, you find out that they did not live in the palace.

They lived in the city.

The school of the tablet was completely separate in that sense.

They would advise the king whenever he went out to war or whatever.

They wouldn't go with him and advise him, you know.

But all of them had families and legacies and so much so that there was a legacy of scribes and of wise men

where they talk about their son and the son of the son of the son, you know.

And lastly was, I found that there was actually a text where they were talking about the requirements

of becoming a member of the house of the tablet, a scribe or a wise man, Umano is the word.

And it says that, you know, there can be no blemish on the body, no lost limb or no scars or Unix.

And then I suddenly realized, and I don't think I, I think I stumble on this myself.

I don't think I read it anywhere because I realized, wait a minute.

Back in Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar says, pick someone who is without blemish.

And I was thinking, well, why is he bothering with that?

Well, that's the definition of what a wise man was supposed to be without blemish.

And then you think, well, that would be silly if, if they're following the restrictions do not be a Unix,

but then make them Unix, that wouldn't make sense, right?

And then lastly, you know, the whole chief of Unix, by that time period, and this is well known in scholarly literature,

by that time period, that phrase, chief of Unix was just a generic phrase for chief of staff.

And so he could have been a Unix, he could have been over Unix.

But at that point, it was just the chief of the administration staff.

And you know, in fact, it's interesting because even in, when you see the star of Joseph and Potaphar,

Potaphar is the same term, chief of Unix.

But if you look at the English translation, they make it like chief of administration, because he's married, right?

And so, but they don't do that here, so the point is, is that it's not as solid as people think it was that he was a Unix.

I say all that to say, it's fun to explore biblical background.

And that allowed me to fully engage a love story that I think people will find very exciting,

and actually make it will fit within the notion that you read Daniel,

and there's no mention of women throughout the whole story, you know?

And you just kind of think, well, where are they, you know?

And, but the way that I engage the love story will actually be consistent with that.

So you actually will have bouncing back and forth between Jerusalem and Babylon,

because he has a love interest in Jerusalem.

And that's what enabled me to also bring in Jeremiah, because I want to tell Daniel a story,

and he's definitely the hero and focus, but it's always intrigued me that like, wait a minute.

Ezekiel was a prophet during the exile. Jeremiah was pre and during the exile.

That's really fascinating. And how did, did they know each other?

All those things entered my mind. I thought, this is really fascinating.

And so I bring in Jeremiah and some of his prophecies and work it into the story.

So you're going to learn about, which also gives context to the prophecies of Jeremiah,

because a lot of times, I mean, in the past when I would read Jeremiah,

you know, you get some hints, there's some references in there,

but a lot of it's just sort of generic destruction or blessing or whatever.

And you're just like, what is this even applying to?

Well, I found out how it was applied, and I worked it into the storyline.

So people will get that understanding.

How helpful has modern archeology been,

than helping to flesh out your stories and flesh out the biblical narrative?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I have to, I have to, I have to say,

I'm not as well studied as you are.

Since I've known you and we talk a lot, it's just like you've always like inspired me,

actually, with how much you do do research far more.

Like I say, I get some of my archeological historical stuff from you, actually.

They're all divergent. Yeah.

But it does. But one of the most helpful

seriologists for me has been DJ Weisman.

And he's, you know, he's from the past, he's long dead.

But the reason why is because he was an evangelical actual archeologist.

He would actually, he actually went there and he translated the Chronicles of the Caldien King.

So this guy's like big time.

So, so he wrote a book, not only the translation of the Chronicles of the Caldien Kings,

which includes Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar.

And who is the guy after Nebuchadnezzar?

Not Baltheshazzar. Baltheshazzar was the son of Nebuchadnezzar.

Nebuchadnezzar, that's it. So there's actual facts from Babylon that are in there

that are related to the Bible, but also helped me with my story.

But also DJ Weisman wrote a, he wrote commentaries on Chronicles and such.

But he wrote a book on the problems of Daniel with liberal scholarship and addressing those issues,

as well as just a historical, like this is like, I don't back in the 60s, right?

But I think it still holds up today.

A book on Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar.

And Nebuchadnezzar is actually one of the ways in which his name is spelled in the Bible,

but it's also spelled in other places as Nebuchadnezzar,

which is a common thing that there's multiple spellings of names in ancient history.

A lot of times there's multiple names, period, like completely different names used of the same individual.

And all that kind of stuff I incorporate into my story.

And in a way that it's, I mean, I incorporate, because I'm interested,

and I want to kind of reflect history, the facts of history.

But I try never to sacrifice the story.

In other words, this isn't about, and people read my work, no.

You learn a lot of history, a lot of mythology, but it's not intellectual, academic type stuff.

It's all in the context of a rip-roaring epic action adventure.

And my premise is, if it's not relevant to the story, then I'm not going to have it in there.

And so there are some really cool things that I just didn't put in there.

Because, you know, like I said, I'm keeping the story and keeping focused.

And that's just one of the natures of one of the aspects of storytelling you just have to take.

Well, again, you've got to give for that.

And again, the first novel of years that I read was just like,

I was seeing the scenes play out in my head in Noah Primeval,

especially that scene where the flood comes in.

And you've got Tubalcane.

And oh, gosh.

Methuzilla.

Methuzilla.

And Tubalcane is these warriors going down swinging.

Yeah.

It's like stand and cheer in the theater moment and, you know, Sharon read it.

And she was like, oh, I agree.

It's brilliant.

I mean, Sharon's writing is elegant.

And you see the characters and all.

But, you know, yours is like, yeah, this would be, you know,

Mel Gibson, make this movie.

Yeah.

Because it would be just absolutely fantastic.

And obviously, when you're dealing with Daniel,

when you're dealing with Nebuchadnezzar, I mean,

you're dealing with one of the great historic figures of all time.

Yeah.

To himself.

I mean, you could make the lead character in just a fantastic story.

Yeah.

Seven years eating grass like an animal.

Yeah, yeah.

And then, returning to come back as a king, I mean.

Yeah.

And his character arc is huge, right?

Yeah.

So it's kind of like, you know, yeah.

So I found him fascinating.

And he's larger than life.

But, you know, I tried to make him, like, he's not, he's not even a Darth Vader.

You know what I mean?

Like, he's just not like that.

He's, he's, he's a brutal, ruthless king.

But he's also human.

And he's got a sense of humor, right?

And he's also got an ego.

And inflated ego, which is kind of humorous at times.

Like, for instance, you know, historically speaking, we know,

he, you know, pumped, you know, just so much money into rebuilding Babylon,

not only the Ziggurat, which had been dilapidated from Assyrian destructions,

but he rebuilt, or he built a new summer Southern palace in Babylon for his queen to mass in the Roman palace.

It's not, he probably, let's put it this way, the legend is that he built the hanging gardens of Babylon

for his median wife, which media was very full of a lot of forests and stuff.

There's, there's a good argument that that wasn't the case.

It was based on Nineveh's Assyria.

But I actually incorporate that.

That's one of these examples where it's like, okay, this is a legend of history.

That still is really fascinating.

And so I put it in a book.

What I do is I go, he's basing his garden based on the garden in Nineveh that Ashurbanapal.

Was it Ashurbanapal?

Sinacrib.

Sinacrib.

Sinacrib.

Yeah.

So it goes, mine's going to be greater than Sinacrib's, right?

So that's how I like incorporate historical things, but I keep the legends too, you know?

But anyway, the point is, is that, yeah, so he invests all this money in rebuilding the walls of Babylon.

And that's why he was always going out into the Levant to get tribute because he needed money all the time.

So he's like, most of the time, he's not even at home, right?

So, yeah, so I have all that in the story as well.

And so, and he's very, he's a, he's a complex character that, you know, like I say, he's got, he's got this funny ego and, and he's a little trumpy.

But you've got to have an ego to sit at a chair like that without being crushed out of the pressure.

But I think that even makes the, then the interactions between Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar that much more powerful.

And in the one hand, you've got this kid who's been dragged away from his home, his family, his partner, his love.

And suddenly he's staying in front of this king saying, tell me what I dreamed.

And I'm like, okay, let forever.

Yeah.

Daniel's voice is, you know, suddenly going back to adolescent, you know, pubescent stage cracking.

Yeah.

And that's, that's what makes, that's what makes it even more powerful because ACA, you're right.

Most of us, when we've heard this story, get sort of a two-dimensional.

And this is true with a lot of the Bible, not because the Bible writers couldn't write, but they were writing what was important.

And character art and...

Well, there aren't characters.

But, but, but, you know, the, the, not as focused.

Not as focused, right, because they're focusing on the theological impact of what's going on.

Which obviously you're dealing with in the, in the, in the story as well.

But using the fact that we empathize, we begin to root for the hero.

Unlike a lot of what comes out of Hollywood today where there is no hero.

It's just about the anti-heroes and...

I'm done with that.

I'm so sick of that.

I'm so done with that.

And yeah, I write classical heroes instead of Hollywood.

Exactly.

That's, that is literally why I moved.

And, and I'm just in love with, with writing the classical heroic stories.

But at the same time, it's not a naïve ancient view.

Well, it's like the Bible, right?

I mean, the Bible was unique for the fact that it did show its character flaws of its heroes, right?

Right, right.

But I do think you, what you're pointing to, though, is sometimes because there's a focus on the obedience side.

It doesn't necessarily show the disobedience all the time.

And Christians often can have the misunderstanding, you know, because sometimes they'll respond to me like that.

You know, they'll say like, you know, Noah wasn't, wasn't, you know, didn't have those flaws.

He wasn't sinful because it says he was pure in his generations.

You know, it's like, excuse me, not only do we know pure in his generations, this is probably more genetic.

But even if you just consider the translation, he was righteous.

In the Bible, righteous are not, righteous are righteous by faith.

Even the righteous have sin, right?

So you've got to have that reality or you're not going to connect with it.

And so I love flawed heroes who learn and grow.

Yeah.

And again, if they're not flawed, I mean, we can't really identify with them.

If they're, you know, it's like the problem that the creators of Superman wrote themselves into.

They boxed themselves into a corner where they made him so, you know, omnipotent that he was essentially a god.

And could never be defeated as they were.

They had come up with kryptonite, a weakness.

Sure.

But that helps.

And that's where you get into the modern DC cinematic universe with a bad man realizing, hey, wait a minute,

being this powerful is really, really dangerous because he's also driven by passions and flaws.

He's not like Yahweh of the Bible who is perfect and righteous.

And, you know, being with that, this was dealt with in a rather gruesome way,

a rather crude way in terms of the use of sex and violence in the recent Amazon Prime Series.

The boy is based on a...

Yeah, which I do not recommend watching that.

Do not watch it.

Yeah, yeah.

But you're right.

It was an interesting story arc with the character played by a home lander with that kind of power

and showing what kind of danger there is in that kind of power.

In principle, I like the modern, some of the modern deconstruction of the hero.

I'm not against it entirely, but you're right.

Everything...

And everything tends towards nihilism from how I would, and it just gets too much.

But another one element, though, that the kind of stories I write, I write masculine heroes

and feminine women, no boss girls in my stories.

Now, in my older, the, you know, Enoch and Noah, you might have a warrior, female, or two,

because it was a little bit more fantasy oriented.

But in the more strictly historical stories, I have, you know, men and men and women are women.

And I have strong men who lead and women, strong women who support them and submit to them.

And so, Christians love this story telling.

And I have no shame in doing it.

In fact, I don't watch or read boss girl stories.

I just don't, they're just not.

They're ridiculous, and they're absurd, and they're against nature.

So, sorry.

Now, that's not to say...

I was not the hard way that those things don't sell.

People don't want them.

Exactly.

But you're right.

Because this is not that.

Daniel, the exile in Babylon is book six now in the Chronicles of the Watchers series.

There will be two more after this.

And again, if you're looking for something that shows a flawed and rather young lead character,

who you can identify with as he comes to, you know, struggle with it.

How do I survive in this pagan polytheistic culture?

And still remain loyal to Yahweh.

And, you know, what can I do to be a service to Yahweh?

Well, I'm learning all this pagan stuff, confronting some of the more powerful and most powerful men

of the ancient Near East of the, you know, six century BC.

I mean, after Nebuchadnezzar, you would get maybe Cyrus the Great,

and then Darius the Mead, and, you know, some powerful characters there.

But to be in Daniel lived through all of this, you know,

through the fall of the Babylonian kingdom.

I mean, he was there in the last night of Babylon when God said,

might drop on this night, you've been weighed and found wanting.

It's an incredible story arc.

We can't wait to see where the next two go, and I'm definitely going to be reading this one

because it's a fascinating character.

We don't know enough about given what we get in the book of Daniel.

I know you're wrapping up.

I just want to throw this in.

It's the first in a trilogy, but don't worry.

Don't wait. A lot of people like to, I want to wait to hold things out.

The first book is a complete story with a beginning, middle, and end.

It will satisfy you. Trust me.

So there are, just like in Daniel, there's different specific segments of Daniel's life

that have a, that are stories in and of themselves.

Yeah.

So don't worry about that.

And you get to get exclusively at Amazon, in Kindle, paperback, ebook,

and audiobooks coming later in the year, as well as hardcover for those of the hardcover books.

Okay. Yeah.

Sharon has a tendency with her Red Wing saga to, you know, get through an exciting climax

then suddenly cliffhanger, and then you've got to wait for the next novel.

So beginning, middle, and end, Daniel, exile, and Babylon.

Part one of the Daniel trilogy.

The latest from Brian Gedawa, and you'll find links to his website.

We can get the book.

And of course, the page devoted to the book, the new novel, and the cast of characters.

So you can see who you will encounter in the novel.

And again, that's, that's really helpful.

Sharon does the same thing, by the way, casting the characters in her novels.

But she uses well-known Hollywood actors.

I'm blessed that I know who she's got in mind when I read her novels.

But at least here you provided some really wonderful artwork,

and a tip of the headphones to Cam Harlas for his help on these two.

Brian, thank you for taking time out and giving us the opportunity to work with me.

Thanks for having me.

Our listeners, and look forward to you talking with you and our friends, Doug Vandorn,

and Dr. Judd Burton on the next Iron and Myth.

Again, check the show notes at vftb.net, or wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast.

You'll not only get a link to Brian's website, but to where you can find the book,

Daniel, exile, and Babylon, and check out the characters page.

And see if, after you read the novel,

if the images that Brian and Cam Harlas created match the characters that you see playing out in the movie in your mind.

And I will say again, it will come across to you like a movie because that is Brian's gift.

He writes in a very visual style, excellent storyteller, and it is an honor to be one of the first to let you know about the new novel,

which is available now at amazon.com.

Coming up, we're going to talk a little bit about our forthcoming trip to Israel in October.

Obviously, the situation in the Middle East has a little bit to do with what's going on there,

and a couple of other places you can see Sharon and me coming up in 2026.

That's straight ahead, as a view from the Book of Continues.

Chronicles of the Watchers is a series of biblical novels by best-selling author Brian Gadawa,

charting the influence of spiritual warfare on human history,

a roar of gods and men.

Jezebel, Harlet Queen of Israel, Moses, against the gods of Egypt,

and other supernatural historical novels in the series Chronicles of the Watchers,

available in eBook paperback and audiobook at amazon.com,

that's Chronicles of the Watchers by Brian Gadawa at amazon.com.

Talk in the Watch Sunday nights from the beautiful Missouri Ozarks.

This is a view from the Booker, Ontario Gilbert.

You'll find us online at vftb.net.

That's our website hosting a podcast since 2009.

Please feel free to dig back into the archives and take advantage of some of those older interviews,

which we will be recycling here on the web in the weeks and months ahead.

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We share not just links to these podcast episodes,

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And also please subscribe to our substack channel,

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That will get you basically access to all of our content,

not just the podcast episodes, which includes PID radio,

which to the best of my knowledge,

is the longest running continuously produced podcast on the internet.

Not trying to exaggerate.

Sharon and I have been doing this for 21 years.

If you know of another one that was being produced back in March of 2005,

and is still around, let me know.

We'll stop making that claim.

But I think we may be the oldest podcast out there.

Also our weekly Bible study, the Gilbert House Fellowship,

and Sharon's podcast currently on hiatus,

because she's been spending so much time taking care of me.

That is, as you see back here, the armored sheep.

We look forward to getting that back online soon.

Before getting into some of the things coming up later this year,

just an update on what's been going on with me.

As you can see, I've learned that stay in the hospital

is an excellent time to work on the length of your beard.

If you weren't aware back in February,

I spent a week in the hospital for pneumonia.

And that's why this program has had a gap in production

over the last few weeks.

We had intended to get a new Iron and Myth episode out in February.

I came down with the flu on Sunday,

which is normally when we record.

And that flu turned out to be Influenza A, which is a rep.

It's a nasty strain this year from what we hear.

I had my fever running upwards of 103 for several days in a row.

Finally, Sharon said, that's enough. You're going to the emergency room.

And we did. They did an X-ray and found that, yeah,

the lungs are definitely showing pneumonia.

So I was admitted to the hospital and took seven days to clear that.

Intervenous antibiotics, breathing treatments throughout the course of the week.

Bayley's basically the only movement I had over the course of the week

was shifting my weight in the bed and then, you know,

hopping up to use the bedside commode.

It was not a fun week.

The first four nights, I think, I slept maybe two hours altogether,

just because every time I'd lie down,

I went into a panic attack because I just could not catch my breath.

So thankfully, thanks to your prayers and the Lord deciding,

I guess, I'm not, that he's not done with me yet.

Pulled through and I won't go any deeper than that.

There were a couple of other things that happened during that week,

but nothing major enough to really relate.

It looks like just the toll on my body as it was fighting off the pneumonia.

Anyway, that led to me dropping every bit of 20 pounds while I was in the hospital.

Between the 10 days from starting with the flu and getting out of the hospital,

I dropped 20 pounds and I did not have 20 pounds of body fat to lose, quite frankly.

So, you know, I got back home and looked in the mirrors like,

what happened to my arms and what are these stick-like things attached to my hips?

It was muscle and so now I'm working to build that back up again.

I'm up about five and a half pounds since getting out of the hospital two weeks ago.

It's not coming on as quickly as it did a year ago when my primary care physician

put me on testosterone.

You know, because of low T, it was because there's good research showing that it regrows myelin

and the neurological issue I'm dealing with, which is the reason for the compression gloves,

is something called CIDP, which is an acronym for a condition that basically means

my body is attacking the nerves in my extremities.

So, my legs get progressively more numb below the knee to the point where my feet are about 80% numb at this point.

And they just sort of hang from my ankles like, you know, scuba flippers,

losing fine muscle control in my fingers.

The one blessing of being in the hospital is that the frontline treatment for CIDP

is intravenous immunoglobulin and because the bed that opened up

I happened to be in the neurology wing.

And so, they took a look at my chart and said,

hey, because we're all in the same health system, he's got CIDP.

Let's get him on intravenous immunoglobulin.

My insurance company's been fighting IVIG because it's expensive, crazy expensive.

They wanted my neurologist to put me on really powerful steroids for a few months first,

just to see if that'll work first.

They're trying to avoid the cost.

Well, when you're in the hospital for an emergency, I guess there are ways

around the insurance company, so I actually got the first round of treatment.

I wouldn't want to go through pneumonia to get the second round,

but I got the first round and the second round should be coming after I go

through a nerve conduction study which will be coming up in a couple of weeks

to show them that my nerves are indeed not conducting signals

and that will show them that the treatment is indeed necessary.

So, your prayers for that will be appreciated because after the second round of treatment

from what I've read, I should begin to see some improvement in my physical condition.

And that'd be a blessing because it would also help then towards getting around

at some of these events we've got coming up later in the year, which is the segue

into the upcoming conferences.

We will be in Dayton, Ohio, actually suburban Dayton.

And let me bring up our mobile app here, so I get the dates and everything correct.

The go there for conference, Sharon, and I honored to be a part of this again this year.

This is Dr. Mike Spalding's event, which we have been part of for the last five years now.

This will be coming up Friday, July 24th and Saturday, July 25th.

At the Harvest Revival Center in Brookfield, which is a suburb of Dayton,

do I have the other speakers listed here?

And yet I need to add that.

Oh, wait, I do have this here.

Pastor Carl Gallips will be one of the speakers, John Haller,

who's weekly prophecy update from this Fellowship Bible Chapel in Columbus,

is a must watch on YouTube.

Carl Tyker will be coming down from Manitoba.

Dr. Greg Reed, a good friend of ours from El Paso, Texas,

isn't a warrior when it comes to spiritual warfare.

Tom Hughes, expert on End Times prophecy, Olivier Meldic also,

an expert on prophecy, and of course Dr. Mike Spalding.

So it's an honor to be part of this lineup and part of this group.

So if you can make it there, July 24th and 25th, great.

If not streaming video will be available.

And you can begin to reserve your spot either in person or online.

And go there for conference.com.

That's go there for conference.com.

And then the remnant rising 2.0 conference coming to Springfield, Missouri,

our backyard.

And we like that because we can drive to those August 7th through 9th

at the Oasis Hotel and Convention Center in Springfield.

If you're in the area, it's just off the Interstate 44.

If you're coming in from out of the area, then fly into the Springfield,

Branson National Airport.

There's a hotel shuttle to the Oasis that can pick you up and take you right to the conference center

and then save you having to rent a car.

But if you do want to rent a car, there's a lot to do in the area.

Branson is just 45 minutes south on US 65.

And of course, they've got great shows there at the sight and sound theater.

Plenty of music.

Silver Dollar City is just outside Branson.

A wonderful, wonderful theme park that captures the charm of the Ozarks

and the best aquarium in the United States.

Bar none.

And I have seen Shed Aquarium in Chicago a number of times.

Growing up also took my daughter there when she was seven.

Fantastic, but worlds of wonder in Springfield, Missouri is even better.

That's USA Today.

That's their poll.

They voted it best in America.

And of course, it's connected to Bass Pro Shop number one, the original Bass Pro.

So if you're a outdoorsman and you want to make a pilgrimage to Bass Pro number one,

this is your opportunity.

So again, Springfield, Missouri, August 7th or 9th, the remnant rising 2.0 conference.

Here are the watchmen.com to sign up both for in-person and virtual.

Because there will be streaming video for that one as well.

Now, as of this point, we have not yet decided to change the dates of our 2026 Israel tour.

October 11th through 23rd with an optional 3-day extension to Jordan.

Obviously, however, the situation in Israel right now is not exactly conducive to tourism.

It would be irresponsible and frankly not a whole lot of fun.

It's been half your tour in bomb shelters.

The number of missiles being sent by Iran into Israel has declined day by day.

But since Hezbollah has entered the chat, things are coming from the north now as well.

From what we hear from friends in Israel right now, tourism is basically nil.

There are a few brave souls who are making a journey, but we would not.

I mean, we went there in the spring of 2024 just five months into the conflict.

And we actually heard the Israeli, the idea of artillery when they began the Rafa crossing initiative,

the operation there to take the crossing through which Hamas was getting a lot of weapons smuggled from the Egyptian side.

And that was sobering because you knew that there were people on the other end of those projectiles.

And although they've sworn their allegiance to a dark God who is not the God of the Bible of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,

their eternal reward is not one that you would wish uneven your worst enemy.

You would pray that they would see the light and accept the truth of Jesus Christ before finding an end.

But many of them made their decision and have chosen to live or die by it.

Anyway, if things clear soon enough that the fall tour dates look secure,

and I mean that from a safety standpoint, we will proceed.

If not, we will re-schedule as we had to do during the COVID, well during COVID,

and during the early days of the war between Israel and Hamas, we had to do that as well.

We had a small group that went there in the spring of 2004, and then we pushed off the 25 tour until the fall last October of 2025 until it was, again, it was safe.

God willing will be there in October, and if not, we will look for new dates when we can go safely.

And again, we pray, and again, I appreciate your prayers for just physical strength.

So that when we go, I will be able to accompany you most if not all of the way.

We managed to do it in the fall, and there were some places I just couldn't go.

You know, western wall tunnels, okay.

Ground is too uneven, and my balance is too shaky.

I'll meet you at the coffee shop on the other side.

But it's like a rolling conference through the Holy Land.

The tour guides for lip contours are the best in Israel.

If they're not, I'd like to meet the ones who are, because frankly, we have had, you know, just absolute five out of five every time.

And we will then have special sessions some evenings to kind of expand on what we see during the days.

Again, more information in a place to register at GilbertHouse.org slash travel.

That's GilbertHouse.org slash travel.

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But we tip the headphones to our longtime announcer, DC Good, and thank him for his contributions to the program all these years.

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We do this because we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

Goodnight, Oliver, wherever you are.

I'm Derek Gilbert.

This is a view from the bunker.

Thank you very much.