Daniel & Nathan Wiffen: The 15-Hour Recovery Secret Behind 1500m Greatness | Social Kick Ep. 288

I was recently in Las Vegas for the soundpipers.

I was a, I went to go trade out one day when I was at ACC's.

Honestly, the, uh, the hardest, uh, trade week I've ever done in my life.

I'll happily say those, they, they trained so hard, uh, I, I've never experienced.

So I welcome to social kick.

I'm Brian Lentquist.

We got a partial crew.

Luke Paddington is still in recovery mode from his home trip to Trinidad.

But we've got Dr. John Mullen and filling in.

And we've got a duo, the fastest gentleman of distance swimming, the brotherhood, Daniel

and Nathan Wiffin.

What's going on, boys?

How you doing?

So now how are you?

Yeah.

We're pretty good.

Uh, I'm intimidated by how many laps have been swung by you to this morning, because

John and I are swimming today, but I'd like to know collectively how many, how many yards

have been swung already today?

Just six, five as a basis we did this morning, because we're on a, we're on a recovery

week.

What is the light's a session?

A lighter session.

What is, what is there a number that scares you guys as, you know, distance elites, like

three K.

Off the block.

I mean, for real, like, volume junkies were like, okay, I mean, I know that wasn't always

your, uh, focus, um, Nathan, but are you volume junkies to the point that if there's only

three to four K on a workout.

A, does that ever happen that you're only doing that much

and B?

Does it give you anxiety that it's not enough?

On tape.

On tape, we obviously get ads up.

Oh, Friday night session.

We do a short course jobs with like towers, resistance,

parachute, parachute, everything.

So that the whole equipment bag is out there on that.

But that takes about, that takes like an hour and a half

and we normally go around four K.

So that session, but most other sessions are on seven.

I think, oh, we did a camp one time at last season

when we went like a 30, 10 Ks in a row, then 10 Ks

became scary after that because we did it for so long

and then you don't want to do it again.

Do you ever have injuries or shoulder problems

that just makes my shoulders hurt to think about it?

Not anymore.

Not anymore, I used to when I started

because I started as like a two to three silo

when I was young, but I didn't really do distance.

And then when I came to university,

kind of went up in the distance.

So then it kind of got shoulder injuries,

but now I'm pretty good.

I do all the pre-pool and stuff.

Well, they have a good team here anyway.

They have a good physio team at Cal.

So it's pretty easy if you get injured just straight

on the bed and you can be fine by the next session.

What's the protocol?

Are you getting like a massage every week or so?

Yeah, every week and then if you have like a nickel

after trading, it's just straight in.

They'll solve it for you.

Do you think non athletes understand the word niggle?

Probably not.

I've said, I've said niggle before to all Americans do.

You think they all do?

I've said the word niggle to people before

and they're like, excuse me.

And I don't know if they think I'm saying something else,

but I've definitely gotten some judgment over that before.

And I'm like, I just thought it was a term

that everybody knew of, you know, it's a little injury.

A site taper, some people don't even understand the word taper.

And I have to explain it to them.

What, how do you explain taper then?

It's just a period of rasp before we rise.

All right, that's like the most succinct way.

I think that you could say it.

A wiff and bros.

We asked our audience at social kick swim

on Instagram and YouTube for some questions for you guys.

So we're going to cherry pick some of these.

Maybe we'll start with our pal Cam McAvoy wants to know

who wins one-on-one in call of duty

between the two of you.

Oh, well, Nathan, yeah, you can say.

I used to like play for money and professionally

when I was younger for college easy.

So I'll destroy you guys like that.

There is like tabat.

Cam's a fan of the worst team in the college easy league.

He's a fellow optic gaming.

So yeah.

What is, wait, so did you get paid to play?

Like you would do like, like, tournament, like, tournaments.

You know, like, like, I've kind of stuff.

You get like, tournaments, like, and then you get

when a prize pool, you know?

What's the most money you've ever made from call of duty?

Or a game?

I don't think it was a lot.

I don't think it was like, like, $500, maybe, in like,

one, one game, maybe.

Not bad.

It's basically gambling, though.

You know, they see what it is.

OK.

I love that.

That's great.

Who would have thought?

OK.

This one's from Abby Herskiew, who

wants to know, did the Weapon Twins ever coordinate outfits?

We are.

We do get that.

We are the best dressed swimmers on the pool side in Cal.

We never turn up in joggers or whatever they got.

We like to spice it up.

But yeah, no, we don't.

We try to wear opposites so people could tell us apart.

Like, different colors.

Like, if they were black, I'll wear white.

So that people could tell us apart.

Did you guys, you still, like, trade clothes or try

to confuse your friends when you were going on?

Yeah, we still share clothes there.

And they, for likes, one of my jumpers

can stay with us, or vice versa.

Right on.

Wait, so what's behind the branding

of wanting to be the best dressed?

I know, like, you look at NBA players rocking up to the games.

They're all light in suits.

So we try.

Under this saucy back in our old university,

where we like a friend group who would all try

to dress up to go to the pool.

So that it kind of started that, yeah.

When I started wearing Magic Five goggles,

I realized that I could swim for 10 minutes at a time,

not get to the wall and need to clear out my goggles.

When I did the hunt, I was 100.

And so I don't think I had to clear the Magic Five goggles

once.

It's one thing that you just kind of got used to.

This is the way that I swim.

Until I found a goggle that's so comfortable

that I don't have to actually make adjustments.

That's the coolest looking goggles in the market, I find.

I look cool in them.

Take some bottom of a goggle.

Well, you need that.

I do.

So you want some paparazzi outside the set?

I don't know how, but that's how I walk it up.

I have one time.

Yeah.

Do you think that's the next big evolution in swimming

is that, you know, like we've evolved from having, you know,

it used to be a long time ago.

Olympic walkouts were just, you know,

you walk the whole heat out.

And then they announced your name behind the block.

And then now it's, you know, you've got pre-recorded content

where you've got some like doing dance on the video board

and the background that you did days ago.

And they're playing that while you're walking out.

And it's just, you know, you with all the focus on you.

But when they play like, you know, soccer games

or NFL games, it's the big thing is the fashion

for them arriving to the arena.

Is that like the next big thing that we can do?

You guys could be the pioneers of this.

The fashion is, yeah, we're going to see like,

what's, what's, where are the whiffens going to wear

on the way to the pool?

Yeah, the problem is, well, the classics will probably

tape over the logos on it.

That'll be the problem.

They definitely will.

Yeah, yeah.

I try to walk out with, I've had phones,

so I have the Red Bull logo on them.

And they always tape them in the call room.

They never let me walk out with them.

I don't know why World of Quattas

got to be redacting every sponsor.

Let's, let's open this up.

It should be like, it should be like NASCAR.

Yeah, I said I want my swimsuit to be like a F1 car.

Absolutely.

Who's the sponsor that you don't have

that you would want to have on that F1 car?

Oh, that's a hard question.

I've already got, I've got my dream sponsors already.

So, shout out.

Shout out.

I probably take like, probably take like,

Adidas or something like that, I guess.

I don't know.

That'll be pretty cool.

I don't, yeah, I don't have a clothing brand sponsor,

so that'll be pretty cool.

What's yours, Nathan?

All right, my dream sponsor.

Well, it's always been Red Bull.

And I would say Daniel has it,

so that would be my dream one.

Yeah, are you poaching Red Bulls off that sponsorship?

Oh, yeah.

We have like 400 counts in our apartment all the time.

Wait, what's the shelf life on a Red Bull?

I think it's a wild shelf life.

Yeah.

How long?

Wait, what's the most number of Red Bulls

you've ever had in a day?

In a day?

Oh, three, three, three, three to pads.

And we go and fall to Red Bulls at some point.

Oh, like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You just lose count, right?

Who knows then?

I have this problem where Red Bulls are like Pavlovian to me,

you know, like Pavlov's dogs.

I, because both my pre-race routine

used to be drinking a Red Bull,

and I'd also hit a caffeine pill at the same time.

I was getting jacked up and 50 free.

And so, but if I have a Red Bull now,

it's obviously not before like a swimming race,

because I'm never really doing that.

And yet my, like, the second I hit that first sip of Red Bull,

I'm like, fired up, you know?

But that's not the response that, like, I'm looking for now.

It's just funny that it works that way.

All right, back to the audience questions.

This is a Jack Alexey and Hank Rivers asked,

who's the better golfer?

Well, I have the better penis, the better PB,

but we're fairies in the world.

91.

Yeah, 91.

91? Not bad.

OK.

How much golf do you play in that, it is?

We, at the moment, we've stopped

because it's championship season and trials.

But like, we would be playing like twice a week, normal.

And then doing like a 75k week.

Grown-up swimming is a summer league for Grown-ups.

How many swimmers got into swimming because of summer league?

And it's because they got into the fun part about swimming.

Eating a hot dog, pounding some fun dip,

and getting on the block and racing.

So why not continue that as an adult?

Why let kids have all the fun?

Why can't adults have a summer league

and remember how much fun swimming can be?

Ims don't really matter.

You get to do silly races.

You can eat fun snacks and be a beer.

I plan on whipping some butt when I race that.

And getting up and going and beating some people,

particularly beaten Luke.

OK, I rule swimming question about this.

I actually used to like playing golf

because I felt that it helped my coordination.

Like, I could feel the connectivity with hips and arms.

And that, for me, that timing aspect of coordinating

hips to the golf swing.

Actually, I felt there was some connection

happening in my swimming stroke as well.

Do you feel like there's any tie-in for you guys

in golf to swimming?

I think like the mental aspect is very similar.

I think like if you're starting over like a four-foot putt

and it's a very similar feeling to,

I don't know, it's like a very hard terrain

session approaching that.

But I mean, like the best, our housemate

is amazing swimming golfer, Lucas Hanversa.

He thinks there's quite a lot of a transparent kind

of finger on there, but I don't really feel it as much.

Just in the mental aspect.

We just do it for fun.

I was just going to ask you what you picked up from Lucas

playing golf.

Well, he's the one who taught us.

So, yeah.

Oh, you'd never played before?

No, we already started a year ago.

Wow.

Yeah, no way.

A year and a half.

A year and a half ago.

A year and a half ago.

Amazing.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

OK, let's go.

We got so many from your teammates on this one.

Ryan Erickman wants to know how much poker money

have they made since being at Cal.

Oh, well, so we were down until last night

and we've broken even on the whole since we started playing.

We started playing in Colorado Springs.

Oh, yeah.

And we lost a Colorado Springs.

We lost nearly $1,000.

Oh, jeez.

What's the buy-end of these poker games?

It's $20, $20, $20.

And you lost a bet.

Did you, like, re-buy in or are you playing that?

Yeah.

Re-buy in there.

But we were playing.

We played every night for the 21 days we were there.

And then we were playing sometimes twice in a day.

Yeah.

So it became, like, we were playing a lot.

And then I actually, I made it back for us.

And they made all this backhouse night.

So we're back to even.

Got to feel like you guys needed a good thing

that you crawled out of that hole.

That's a big hole to crawl out of.

Yeah.

Never count as I come back here.

Yeah.

Yeah, clearly.

Yeah.

All right, let's keep going through some of these.

Erpal Nioff, I'd like to share once

to know who takes the top bunk.

The top bunk.

And we used to shout, yeah, we some of them have got that.

I was on the top bunk when we were in our old family home.

But yeah, I don't know why, because it's actually

more inconvenient being on the top than it is the bottom.

Wait, how?

Well, we have, you saw, like, a double bed on the bottom bunk

and a single on the top.

Got the double bed to climb a ladder every day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

I got you.

And then maybe the last one of these that will hit

is Josh Hueger.

What's the best joker for the day that you've ever seen?

Got to keep it PG.

No, no, no, no, no.

Whatever you want.

Thanks, Ron.

Yeah.

Thank you, Ron.

What's, you see that enzyme one?

No, no, no.

What's blue?

Not heavy.

Blue and heavy.

What do you go, John?

Not heavy.

Not heavy.

Blue and not heavy.

I don't like blue.

I have anything.

The sky blue.

Light blue.

The sky.

No, it's light blue.

Light, yeah, it is like blue.

I'm looking at it.

I don't know.

What is it?

It's light blue.

Like what's blue?

Light blue.

Yeah, okay.

That's like a dad joke for sure.

Nathan's the king of the joke every morning.

I was trying to have to Dave Durd and joke in the day every day.

Once the days was actually, I could tell you this one.

What do you call a person who farts in private?

Silent, but deadly.

No, a private tutor.

A private tutor.

Okay.

That's that's that's our joke one on one for sure.

Nathan, how was ACC's?

Yeah, it was good.

I've never been in like a environment like that before.

Well, I don't know like with a team, I guess like, I would say European 2023 when down

up at the world record was way louder, but I get a guess NCAA is going to be like that.

But yeah, it was really good.

I was really happy with my 500 when I went for 12 because I'm not typically very good

at like 400 freestyle.

So to give it 412 was like, I got like a full second PB.

Then my mile, I was happy with the time, but not happy with the race.

So it was like kind of bittersweet.

But I guess I could do it NCAA, so I just have to redeem myself.

But it was my first major battle anyway in my swimming career.

So yeah, I enjoy it.

It tells about.

Yeah.

I was going to say, tell us about the mile race.

What weren't you happy with?

I know.

I think you were at first.

And yeah, tell us more about that race.

I was just getting frustrated because I couldn't drop the guy from NC State and I was just

getting frustrated by it.

And I think, I don't know, that race I learned a lot from because I've never really been

in a race like that before.

And then I think I'm now thinking about racing like Daniel does now.

So it's actually opened my eyes to a lot of like, how mental everything is.

And I feel like I basically gave the guy the win because why to slow down completely

in the middle.

Like, I just, I needed him after he didn't even have to speed up, I just let him go.

So.

Yeah, I was looking at the splits and it looked like it around 1100.

He dropped at 26.5 and you had 27.0 or 1 and it was like, that was the gap that got created

after you were kind of on the leading end for the front half of the race.

Yeah.

I wondered about like the psychology of that because there's so much strategy.

I think that, you know, from talking to some of these like world-level distance swimmers

and how they're thinking about how you guys are thinking about other people in the race.

And that just doesn't really happen at like the hundred distance.

You know, it's, it's more like horse racing with putting the blinders on and just

swim in your own race.

It has nothing to do with factoring what other people are doing.

But, like, so if you were to do it differently, what's the, what's the change?

Well, I can't say what I'm going to change because, I guess I'll just say, well, let's

have to see.

But I was really good winning the team championship as well because it was kind of like we weren't

going in right first or anything because Stanford would be going in and it was meant

to be like real, well, I don't think we were meant to win to be honest.

That's what my consensus was of it.

And then we won and it was like everybody was like really happy.

We didn't really celebrate like that much.

We kind of just went back to the hotel and had like a catered dinner and then we all just

kind of chilled out.

But we were up at like 3.30 in the morning, getting a flight the next day.

So everybody was like kind of like three hours sleep because everybody took so much caffeine.

So we'd like 17 or 18, not based the whole men's team swimming in that final session.

Yeah.

So.

But.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

Well, what's life been like then, you know, moving from Loughborough, big change in California

training in the US, decent amount of yards to what's, what's it been like?

Well, it's like, so when I first came here, I had like no one to like, uh,

I didn't really know that many people.

I knew like Jack, but I didn't really see him that often.

So then I was like, oh, it's kind of really weird not having my twin here or Lucas like

have been around them for like years.

So now I had to get used to being by myself and then like getting to know new people.

And then on top of that, the training is like totally different.

Like the European style of training is like, we don't do that much kick really a lot of

meters, a lot of pole, a lot more longer reps where the US, it's just shorter, middle,

middle distance reps and like way more harder sessions like throughout the week.

But in Loughborough, we did harder sets, which is less frequent.

Having an option that works with my affinity for swimming and my love for being in the pool

that can help me by, you know, taking care of the, the wrinkles before the pool,

you know, with the goggles.

So I don't look like a bit in the pool day to, to not being itchy, to smelling nice.

It's kind of nice to have an option that does all those things.

You can enjoy these benefits too.

Go to try hard and use code social care for 20% off your order.

So how many hard sets are you doing now per week or like during a peak training

compared to what you're doing back in Europe?

Well, we have a set, hard set, we have a hard set that we all like to race up.

You probably heard from, okay, yeah, probably sad about it.

Like this morning, we have a, Monday mornings meant to be aerobic.

We're not meant to give up higher than a whole 150 heart rate.

It ends up just being maxed all our apps, right?

Trying to race each other Monday night is like short call shards like 500, 500 pace.

It just becomes max pace is no 500 pace.

It's just whatever you can go.

Like kind of like 7,500, 125, 150s around that range.

Yeah, nothing higher than a 125 pace.

And then a Tuesday morning, it depends on what group you in.

If you're in the pro group, we swim.

We go like a like ease.

We have a aerobic short rest session.

So we, when the pro group is by itself, we go easy.

But we're one of the college group, you choose day mornings with your test sets.

Yeah, we have like a test set to like 31s or something like that.

Yeah.

So that then we end up going real fast.

But that and then Tuesday night for the pro group for me and Lucas, we go like,

mid range reps, a threshold to heart rate.

So between around two hundreds, three hundreds of threshold.

We could do like 10, 2, 10, 3s, whatever.

And then Wednesday you have it off.

We have we have it off Wednesday morning.

Is ever for the distance group.

A lot of people split off because obviously in the answer,

by you, we can have the different strokes.

So these stroke groups, be an A for the only ones who don't have other strokes.

So we're still in the distance.

So, yeah, we do that is like mid distance, like we'll find more than just just

short of there, aerobic short rest long course.

Wednesday night, you've got Wednesday night.

We have active rest, rainbow, kind of set.

Like basically that's not too hard.

You know, it's just that the Wednesday morning is meant to be like a nice chill session.

But me and Nathan likes to race it up on the Wednesday morning on the longer reps.

And the first day morning is like a, is I am for your group.

Yeah, yeah, I am for your group.

And for the pros, it's saying chill aerobic session.

And then Thursday night for me, I go, I buy myself on Thursday night.

Or when Nathan did it would be sometimes I go like 800s, a load of 800s fast and train

at long course and stuff like that.

And Friday morning, while that this morning, we, it's the kick set.

But then we actually, because we were distance, we don't do that much kick.

So then ends up being a max aerobic session.

Yeah, we had Ryan's right this morning, he was the one shouting the whole session.

He was cooking.

We had 14 ones on like 125 pink.

So pink pace for me, I would have the fastest pink pace.

And it's about 104, it's about one, it's about 102, 101, 101, 101.

And then they are, and Ryan's pace would be so with a mind.

So he probably won a three.

Yeah, 103 on pink.

Ryan said it sounds good.

57s and all 40, 100s.

And all we could see was, yeah, but we were all, it was me, Dave,

and Lucas leading the lanes in the front row.

We're riding at Eduardo.

We actually had a gas today.

We had a hundred Christians.

Do you know that he came and joined us because he's here for a day, just visiting us.

So he was in the lead, but the second wave was Eduardo and Ryan.

And like me, Dave and Lucas are all chilling are like 101.

I was going, I was in the first, me and Lucas were dead from last night.

Lucas got up to like a 20 lactate last night, others 50s.

We've been looking for pretty dead and Ryan, and we can see Ryan and Eduardo just go 57s

behind us.

And we're like, what's going on?

And then Ryan is just like screaming, like, he's leaving our Brazil time over here.

I don't know.

Yeah, Eduardo likes to leave early on the reps and those two are going out.

He's like 14.

And then Ryan started going, I'm having like a 1.5 handicap right now, and I'm still winning.

Yeah.

And those were just arguing for like 14, 100s, it was hilarious.

And then they just go back.

And Dave Dunn is just sitting in the background laughing.

Yeah.

Where everybody's shouting.

The good thing about our squad is that like there's no like ego thing.

It's all about like everybody just loves to race each other.

Like I nobody like, like before I felt like a lot of people were afraid to race me

because of the like the medals won and they didn't want to like race me.

But now it doesn't matter.

Everybody just wants to race me.

They always like, I don't think Ryan sent the podcast to me.

But he was talking about how when I win, I like to count up the reps.

Yeah, yeah, because I know I'd always do.

Yeah, I know.

But like, I always win the majority reps all the time.

But today, because he was sick of a wave, he wasn't racist.

No, we don't counting all the way up to 14.

But we don't care if he's second wave, you can't win a set.

That's what's that.

You got to be first wave to win.

Oh, yeah, that's fair.

Yeah, yeah.

He did talk up the intimidation factor for you for sure.

We showed up.

He's like, okay, we're in a new domain now.

Yeah, we did coaches have said what we enjoyed.

We have to have changed how the environment is and curl.

Because before the distance score was not very well known.

And now it's probably that best.

Well, it's better if you can't brush stroke.

Brush stroke is technically the best and civilized.

But in world class, the distance score will be the best.

And we can't change the environment we got here.

We wanted everybody to race.

We wanted it to be like to everybody to get in each other's face

to start inspiring each other.

People doing crazy things and to try and raise the train level

because I saw everybody down when I arrived.

I arrived a bit late because I surgery.

So when I came a bit later, I saw everybody down

and I got down.

So I want to make sure this squad,

we don't want a really good top level.

We don't want to let pitch champion the bottom level

not into make nationals.

So we're trying to move that bottom level up to the top.

And that's why I saw everybody down at start said this.

And ever since then, we've had our bottom level

just raised up so much like, well, again,

I think the multiple people are like,

our level is like 15 minutes.

Also, it's like a mile is 15 minutes now.

So it's crazy that we've raised this level up for everybody

and everybody's buying into it.

There's nobody not buying into it.

So it's quite fun.

What do you think besides that like attitude shift

and reframing in the competition within a workout?

Like is there anything tactical that you feel like

you've been able to add to the group to say,

no, this is like, this is how you actually get better.

It's kind of old school to be honest.

It's more just shout out until they do it.

That's basically what it is.

I did find like a start like a lot of them were too comfortable

on their paces and like, it always happens.

Like when I was in Loughborough, I was the only one

and Felix would do it to all the backgrounds in there.

Like we were the only ones pushing the paces.

No, everybody's comfortable sitting back,

chilling at the heart rate zones.

Nobody really wanted to push it.

And I just like explain to these guys,

like, you're not going to win Olympic medal.

If you're not going to do stuff that's uncomfortable and stuff

like that, and you need to really push yourselves

because at the end of the day, the feeling you get

in training when you're dying

and you try push it from the start

is what you're going to feel on the race.

And the more you get to that feeling,

the easier it is to break it.

And then also they're lucky enough

that they get some world class athletes as pros.

Like being in Lucas and coming in as pros,

Lucas is a world medalist short course.

You know, like they know what the level is at.

Like I never had this when I was young.

I never had Olympic champion who was trading at the level

to push to Felix was world champion,

but he never in my events.

So I never knew what it was like.

So for me, setting a stone for them,

they can't have that picture already painted for them.

They know what to do.

They just, I know at level,

because I always train at the highest level

to try and be the best forever.

And they will try and push it.

Then I'm trying, they know what that level is

to try and make their dreams come true too.

So it's kind of good to see.

And that's what I kind of take it into my role this year.

I remember talking to Dave and Noah when I got there,

I was like, I kind of want to have a role

where I kind of share some information

because when I was younger, I never,

like Felix would always tell me what to do.

And I have Felix guide me along the way.

And I want to do that now for the younger generation,

someone's in Cal, like Ryan,

who could have a great chance of being a Olympic medalist,

but he just needs to be still in the right direction

and make sure he's doing the right things and stuff like that.

So that's what I'm trying to do at the moment.

You mentioned you guys brought the old school mentality.

And like you said, you're used to doing more yardage,

you're pushing each other and then the whole group

and it sounds like every practice

even if it's meant to be easy.

Is overtraining or burnout or any of those things

on your radar or a, where does,

I guess how do you focus or what's your mentality behind that?

Yeah, for burnout, like I always think burnout

is more of a mental, like a mental thing

because we're all having so much fun in the sessions.

Like, you don't really burn out because of the enjoyment factor.

Like burnouts, normally when you don't enjoy it,

like you aren't enjoying what you're doing

and then you start to see a decline.

So for us, if we're everybody's enjoying it,

you don't really see the burnouts.

You're only not enjoying it if you're losing anyway.

So...

I don't get it out anyway.

Yeah, so that part of it's definitely an,

obviously there's a lot of, like for me,

being a lot older now, when I was Ryan's age,

I was able to sprint every session.

And now I had to pick and choose my battles

because I'm 24 years old.

I'm starting to come to the peak end of my career.

That'll be at the LA Olympics.

So I can't go all out on these 4-2-100s

like this morning because I have a hard set tonight

where I need to prepare for.

Well, when I was 18 years old, I was flying

and I never think I'd just want to care.

But so for the younger people,

they can go as fast as they want all the time.

But when you start to get that second part of your career,

after having a big win or something like that,

then you start to adjust.

And that's what, Noah and Dave are really good at.

They're really good at adjusting for certain people.

You know, I was for college programs.

It's just one set way and do what it is,

but it's completely untrue.

Yeah, well, I know kind,

my program is completely set for me.

And I even do sets just for me and it's great.

And that's what's good.

And also, I do six on course, four short course shots.

So it's not, I'm doing literally the same

as what I was doing before.

They've even adjusted the sessions for me.

So I'm winning more on course and ever.

Yeah, more on course after April.

So it'll be good.

So it's so funny to think about like 24 being framed

as the old man, which I know that when I was 24,

that's the way that it felt too,

because you're removed from college.

And life moves at a different pace

when you're living around a college town

and around a bunch of kids who are 18 and who are flying.

And you're like, oh, man, I've been doing this so long.

But I think it's so interesting with swimming

that I've said this on prayer episodes for listeners.

The triathlon and marathon running,

the peak athletes are like in their late 30s often.

Now it's getting younger in triathlon

because more entrance are getting into it.

But swimming seems to be like this for a while,

it's mostly an outlier.

Like Ladecki's extending her career for a long time.

But you know, like other sports are proving

that there's longevity in the distance events.

And swimming seems not to be that way.

We're maybe like Greg might be like sticks around.

He's an outlier.

Yeah, he might be an outlier,

but I don't understand why like the same isn't true

in swimming where you've got a whole bunch of people

who are in their like 30s,

who are dominating distance racing.

Yeah, I think it's a lot to do with mental fatigue.

I think when you start to do the,

because you have to do a certain amount of meters

to be a distance somewhere like we can't do

the count Machavoli training in distance.

So it just doesn't work for us.

Like I've tried it last year and it just doesn't work.

Like I tried it and this year I'm going last me.

I'm going like 65 K average at the moment.

Like I used to do 75 K 80 K average.

So I've come down a bit and I still see the same results.

But I think it's because I've got a massive block

behind me.

It's one of the reasons why that I don't need to do

necessarily do that amount of meters anymore.

But I feel like for the longevity and distance

something like I still think PK is around 27.

For what you when you're at your best

and when you get the best time.

So, but the problem is like Greg has got that mental ability

to be able to do the 10 K work all the time.

He loves it.

You know, if you love something, it's a lot easier.

But for people who are doing distance something like 7Ks

is a long way and it takes two hours

and you did not 10 times a week.

Then you see where sprint training it can be later

because you're getting like camera close

what's in 500 meters of session, you know.

I'm really good friends with Cam.

And I talk to him a lot.

So he always, he's been a 5K someone before.

So he knows the type of training that I do.

And I like to see what he's doing.

But that's sort of saying like it's a big difference.

That's why I was feeling the distance

ages a bit earlier.

What can you pick up from what Cam's doing now then?

Well, I actually thought Cam said he takes a lot from me.

I also think he was saying to me

that the the piracy love picks up every few I like quote

where he said he challenges in a dad with in last 10 meters

when he saw my 100.

But I mean, I can't just training.

I feel like the thing about him is that he's so specific

with everything, every stroke counts.

And necessarily when we're training,

not every stroke counts,

but most like every 100 meters in the time matters more.

But he's really feeling every stroke.

And when I talk to him, it's all about technique driven.

It's all about like the timing aspect,

making sure you're always good,

making sure you're always at the right rate and stuff like that.

Well, that's why I think it was really cool for him.

I just think it's really hard for me to do that.

But I do try to tap in on the technique aspect a lot.

We have Dave Marshall with his camera, right?

Yeah, he's one of the best technique advisers ever.

He gives great technique advice.

But that's why I take from Cam is like the ability

to think about every little minute thing

to them, the good is really cool.

And I can adapt it to my training.

I try to think about certain things per session.

So if I got to keep it up my mind.

What are both of you thinking about

with your technique at the moment,

with various to improve?

Well, I'll say anyway,

because wet in the mile,

one of the key things I noticed was

my break out is awful off my turns.

I've a really quick turn,

like rotation speed,

probably one of the quickest.

And it's like I'm just blocking all the water.

Dave Marshall's telling me.

So we've just been working on like making sure

my hand isn't drifted out on the break out,

because mine is like,

I'm like collapsing, breaking out.

I'm like getting all the water on my head almost.

So we're just trying to keep that real smooth.

And I'm doing it.

I'm like seeing massive results,

even like, we're doing it for like three days.

Yeah.

For me, breathing is a big issue my whole life.

Like I feel like actually,

well, I should ride Murphy is turning it back.

I'm sure anyone was at the moment.

This guy is my number one fan.

I know.

I know that so every session he begs me up.

He was 10 meters behind me in the lane.

He always comes in my lane.

He loves to be in the lane.

We'll be because we always shout.

And I don't know.

He loves it.

And he was 10 meters behind me.

We'll do the pole set.

And he said, he was going to stop to me after the round,

after the session.

He goes, you have the best pole I've ever seen in my life.

Like I am feeling your catch from 10 meters back.

I was like, that's great.

And then the other day it was my turn.

Sort of amazing.

He's like, I try to do underwater so I just can't catch it.

Yes, but the main thing for me that I notice is like,

see what I breathe?

My head kind of drifts to the side of it.

And I look backwards.

So I'm trying to keep it more in line

because distance, like the tiniest little thing

can make a massive impact.

So that's why it's so good about turns.

Like if you increase your turn speed by 0.1,

it's three seconds basically.

Oh, so whatever.

Yeah, so it's really, it's like the little things

kind of one thing also, when we went to Colorado Springs,

Yuri took us through a freestyle clinic with our whole squad.

Yeah, Yuri came to the deck, he's all coached.

And he was saying like, it actually, I never realized this.

The flatter the swimmer, like the flat,

all the people who were the flattest in the water,

like going through no up and down motion.

The ones winning, you know, like it's like on every event,

you can, he was sharing it.

It was just all the people, all the body line

is flat on top of the water, no real moving side to side

and no real up and down movement.

It's always a big thing, like a lot of the people

and cowl work on the moment is that the over rotation

on the graph too, because a lot of people go straight

on their side, like instead of saying flat,

they go the whole way around.

And really you only want the tiniest movement side to side.

And it kind of need more net mobility.

You know, we've got the best coach,

Nathan Adrian's coach, Dave Durdum for the breath.

The best way out of that.

Nathan Adrian is a breath technique, so what we say.

Yeah, yeah, these small nuances, you know,

that's like really what stands out at the elite level

is that you're measuring things by these super tiny

marginal gains.

And that's what it takes to chase the long tail,

because you're already in the top, you know, like 0.1%

of even not only the population, but also what's possible.

So then to like break that further down, you know,

this is the kind of attention that you need to have.

I just wonder about like what, what's,

what do you guys feel like is the biggest like challenge

for you to figure out whatever's next?

You know, like maybe a different way to frame it is,

what are you taking to the pool on a daily basis

that is you're like 1, 2, 3 things I need to focus on

to get the most out of this workout?

You know, you may have mentioned some already

on the technique side, but what are like key priorities?

Yeah, you can feel so.

So my three would be, well, if we do like basic,

it would be the technique, the effort I'm putting in,

it's a massive one, especially,

I think that's the part of the biggest.

And also like the recovery after I would say is big,

there are my like three things I think about during training.

It's like you got a, we have like a whole protocol,

I know Daniel's probably going into this more detail,

he's the Red Bull helping him make a whole routine

after training and stuff.

But that would be my three, I would say.

For me, I think, I don't really like to,

I'll say at the moment, my breath focus is number one.

My big thing for distance, someone's like,

if you want to be a fast distance,

somebody you need to learn how to negative split it.

I think like it's like a massive,

because of how long the race is,

you need to be able to hold that pace

and the second half of the hundred,

say the 50, 750 on the 100,

or the second 100 on 200.

You need to be able to hit the right pace

and a lot of people I see,

especially since coming to a college program,

they always send the first 100

and are so slow on the second 100.

It's just not the way to train to be a distance freestyle.

If you don't know how to negative split,

you're never going to be in the race.

Like somebody goes out first,

the 100 never wins the race,

apart from Bobby Fink at the Olympics.

But it rarely ever wins.

So for me, at negative split second,

and at my third,

we'll be also keeping,

make sure my awareness is right,

because as we've said,

like in our events,

it's more about racing the people

instead of racing in your own lane.

Like you need to make sure you're in the right position

or stuff like that.

So in training,

I'm always aware of where I am,

more is aware of who's in front.

If I'm in front how far,

I need to be in front of somebody

to make sure they can't outsprip me at the end.

I'm thinking this all the time,

like I always think like really logically

in training,

like I always know exactly everybody

who I'm training with.

I know exactly how far ahead it needs to be

or behind,

I need to be going to our last 50 on a rep.

And like I've always been that way,

I even took it into the Olympics

when I was a day 100

to know how far in front is to be a Bobby Fink,

to be able to,

you couldn't think me at the end.

But like stuff like that,

that's what I like to make sure I'm aware.

And I also've been teaching this to the freshmen

to make sure they learn

about the racing and know your competitors.

But yeah,

let's give you the go into detail

about our recovery strategy as well.

I'll be as well mention it.

But basically,

so ever since sign with Red Bull,

the main thing that I found that they're really good for

is like their like ability,

that their knowledge around different things

that we necessarily don't have access to in swimming.

They've got so many good sports

and such a massive multi-billion dollar company

that they have got so many resources.

So the first time I joined Red Bull,

I was,

I need to sort out my nutrition.

So I got the Red Bull nutritionist who does

all the athletes,

there's the cycle and team and everything.

And I said,

I need you to just set me out on a plan of a week.

I said,

I came in at Salted Season 18 pans overweight

because of my surgery

and taking a lot of much time out off.

So I took off 18 pans by this certain day

and he just sent me out the meal plan.

Red Bull have their own nutrition app.

So it's pretty easy.

They're just,

the guy makes recipes for me,

customize it every week and changes it up.

And he gives me the shop and list on a someday.

So I go to the shops and have it already.

So that's already taken care of.

So that's one part of the recovery.

And in the next part,

I'm working on the moment with our sports scientists

is about different techniques to get myself better

without doing extra stuff.

So obviously sleep number one,

but forget about that because everybody knows that

and you need nine hours a night or half,

eight hours,

thirty whatever.

A lot of different things techniques

that have come up recently,

like ice baths after aerobic sessions

increase your VO2 max.

A lot of people don't know that.

So after a hard session,

go 12 minutes in an ice bath around 25 degree,

28 degrees Fahrenheit,

25 degrees Fahrenheit is like optimal.

For after a hard aerobic session

that you then increase the benefit of the aerobic session.

So then I will get more benefit icing the muscles after

but you can't do it in a strength phase

because it reduces the risk,

the reduces muscle build,

stuff like that.

And then a stuff like with a hyperbaric chambers

after a Saturday morning training to boost again,

the blood flow with oxygen.

And then normal attacking in between sessions

to make sure that the blood restriction works

and all that stuff,

like there's a load of different things

that we're going into at the moment,

like stuff like that,

which is kind of interesting

and trying to make those 1% extra

so that when I come to the Olympics in LA

that I'm going to be the most well-balanced athlete ever

and that's how I'm going to win.

From the little things I've done outside of the pool

and so I'm just trading hard and putting my head down.

I think when we talk about all these different

like modalities and technology and innovations

that are coming in to science,

the shit out of the sport,

it makes me think about the Norwegian triathletes

who were measuring their core body temp

by putting a like suppository pill in their butt.

Like,

I've done that.

I've done that.

You have done that.

We did it in trading, yeah.

Judging,

because we did it for a judge,

was it hydration we did it for?

I'm burning our resting heart rates as well

so that you swallow the pill

and then it gives you your body temperature

and we also did it some race simulations

to see how much we dropped in the

before the race and stuff like that.

A lot of different things.

Yeah, I actually looked in quite a lot

of the science of the sport there

because get quite a lot of access

to be as much of a red ball

and then obviously having college programs

is always suited to want to do testing

and stuff like that.

I mean, the only thing I stay away

from is the psychological tested

because when students are psychological questions,

they just say you're at a rabbit hole

and you don't want to do them

and then you end up thinking over thinking things.

So stay away from that.

We had one more audience question

about recovery and they were specifically talking

about between prelim and finals.

You mentioned norm of text being one thing.

Any other tips or strategies

between prelims and finals?

Yeah,

semia flies.

The EMS, the EMS,

so electro pulse stuff.

Yeah, for me, especially that the Olympics

I'll give you the best story.

So I heard that Pam and 100 freestyle

well, rock and roll, got 16 hours

of sleep in between his heat and final.

The Olympics.

How is that impossible?

I guess, napping and whatever,

because you have like, well, how many?

You got the morning of and the night the next day.

So 16 hours.

So he, so I took this into account,

I was like, if I he's doing this, I'm gonna try it.

So I, for the 800 freestyle,

did my heats, then I was like,

oh, I'm with him now, I'm with him now.

I'll take a three hour nap after the heats.

Three hour nap, then I went to bed at the night of,

I took nine hours sleep.

Oh, and then I went, woke up, did my morning swimming

and came back and I went for another three hour nap.

So I ended up with 15 hours of total sleep

between the heats and finals.

And then after that, I felt amazing.

Like I felt like I was a new person going into the final

and stuff like that.

And then also I am on top of the normatex.

I do 30 minutes on the legs,

15 minutes on each arm.

And then also ice bath after heats and finals.

So I go in, I get my lactate.

Yeah, this is for my event.

Just I don't know about the other events,

but we do lactates, lactates are massive for me.

I don't care about heart rate.

Heart rate, in my opinion, just a made up number.

It doesn't matter what heart rate is

because everybody's different.

But lactates are great because they show

if you're fueled enough for the session or a race.

So if my lactate, if I'm going to really slow my lactate,

it's not getting above a three.

Then I know that I don't have enough glycogen

to make myself have the best session.

So for me now, we use lactates all the time in Cal.

We all have our own molotism approach groups.

So we're chest and lactates.

And I know that my session's good.

If my lactate number's high enough to go with the swimming,

I know what lactates should be at a certain effort.

So, and then if it's lower than what I think it is,

I mean, time and field, right?

And it's the same with racing.

So our race, I take a, we do a hydration test

and we do a lactate test.

And if my hydration's low, it means I need to up it

and it's not good enough for the finals.

So then I learn for the finals, I need to drink more.

And if my lactate's low, I need to, I need to eat more.

So I need to get more fuel in for the finals,

solve out this, like it's very different.

Obviously, like these age groups,

some of us can't be doing this

because lactate machines are 2,000 plus dollars to get.

But you should, like you can tell by racing

if you feel depleted,

then you need to eat more

between heaps of finals and stuff like this.

Yeah, that's how it's becoming.

That's, I don't know, that's what I've been working on at the moment.

How about at ACC's and on the college scene?

When you have, obviously, 20, 25 guys maybe having,

you know, 25 normatex and 20 button massage therapist

and things like that isn't as feasible.

So what's been your strategy?

You've been working on it these conferences and, and so's.

You say it's not feasible, but I feel like everybody in the team

has the other type of normatex.

Yeah, I always feel like, if the N2O blaze,

like people, do you know how you have to offset receipts?

Like normatex is like the first thing people buy

when they have to offset receipts, like $1500,

so we go buy a pair of normatex.

But, well, we, because we have, with Cal,

it's good, we have three masseuses at every major meet.

So I, after like a, say the 500,

I went, heates, swam it well out in the final,

then into a straight flush of the legs,

because that's what, well, basically, I get a lot from Daniel

to be honest, but flush the legs, then go back,

it was probably basically lunchtime, have my lunch,

then go for a longer snap as I can, then wake up,

maybe like 30 minutes before I have to leave for the finals.

And then I, sometimes I put on the fireflies before I,

well, I'm like, when I wake up,

just to get the blood flowing more.

And then, I don't know if this is a niff or not,

but we were talking about normatex,

and I like to like, put my normatex on

and then put my, like, do they over the top of me?

I don't know, keep the heat in, I don't know.

That's a big one, actually, a lot of people,

I actually notice this is a lot of the dual meets with Cal.

Like the amount of like college athletes

who like don't wrap up before they go to like the pool,

like they're standing there with no shoes on,

no shorts on just a t-shirt.

And it's like freezing on the pool deck, it's all open air.

Like the amount you can lose in heat is crazy.

I like the reaction times a big thing with a heat

and stuff like that.

So especially in the sprint events,

like you need the heat in your body.

Like I always see like Ryan Murphy and all these guys,

like coaxage hat on, gloves on, everything on,

before Michael Andrew does it actually,

well, he always see him with a coat on, gloves on, hat on.

And then we go, Ryan, rock it up, Ryan,

Ryan sleeper build and his crux and his,

how all random, yeah, always.

And also an America massive thing is getting in

with your suit on, like with your race suit on.

Yeah, like that.

Yeah, I don't think people on the sound,

like race suits restrict blood flow.

So you need to take it off so that you can get the oxygen back

to your muscles so that you can recover.

People just stick it on and they have to take it off

until like an hour after the race.

Well, I'm talking about like before,

like before they go to the call room,

or like 10 minutes before their race, they're getting in.

Before, yeah, yeah, I don't get this college swimming,

where it's not possible at World Champs

to be able to get in 10 minutes before the race,

which you have to be at the call room 20 minutes before.

And like people who swim,

sweat, get, go for an earlier warm up,

then come back and do more warm up

before they go to the call room.

Like I think you're losing so much internal body temperature

and you're not giving yourself enough time

to be able to get it back up again.

Sorry.

I've never understood that either,

but I felt like it's more common in longer events

than it is in shorter events,

where shorter events, people are okay with, you know,

having 45 minutes or 50 hour even.

In between, and putting the suit on, getting warm

and all of that.

I want to come back to the sleeping,

because like I was a terrible napper,

and I never figured out the solution to be able to sleep.

And part of it was because like,

oh, I might have a caffeine for a prelim,

some are heat swim, and then if there's a session,

like trying to get some rest in between sessions

was difficult, but then my mind would race too, you know,

and I did a difficult time going to sleep.

But I knew that my best races came after

having a solid nap.

And, you know, to hear about like,

being able to program and go,

I'm gonna go take a three hour nap,

and then you're able to do it on top of setting your intention.

That's what would fuck me up, is saying,

I'm gonna take a three hour nap,

because then I wouldn't be able to do it.

There's so many times I've tried to lay down,

I need to sleep, I need to sleep, I can't.

Yeah.

Do you ever have that problem,

or are you just a pro, are you guys pro sleepers?

I think this is a routine that I've kind of got good out now,

but we don't take like,

I don't take like any sleep supplements really either.

I apart from a cherry at cherry juice

because it's got natural melatonin in it.

So I take off.

I actually have, since coming to the US,

because melatonin's a prescription in the UK,

so you can't get it,

but in the US, it's easily accessible, some reason.

We've gone farma here.

Yeah, if you've watched TV, we love the drugs.

Yeah, so I take that after finals

to make sure I can get to sleep like straight away,

but for the napping aspect,

I think also I don't take caffeine in heats.

I used to see when I wasn't as good,

but now I can go PB plus 15 and the final,

so it's easier now to do it.

But when I was younger,

I don't know, I can just force myself to nap.

I don't know, as soon as I turn the lights off,

I can force you straight asleep.

You're the same Nathan?

Why am I at the level where I can't take caffeine in heats?

But like ACC's, it was fine.

So I just did the exact same thing he did and it worked.

But you can say, I'm going to go down and take you,

the way that you phrased it was,

I'm going to sleep as long as I can,

but I, yeah, but like,

I think I've always just been envious of people

who can sit down on a couch, you know,

and they're like, it's basically like they have a button,

you know, they sit down, I'm going to go sleep,

and then I feel like it also depends on what you're,

how your mindset is when you race,

because if you're like the pants of what you're thinking about

when you're in the race, because in the heats,

I don't really think about anything.

I just think about what place I need to be at

to make sure I get through and so on.

So I'm, because I'm not going all out,

like my mindset's very different to the final,

where the final I do shovel to get to sleep after.

Yeah, but when I'm not,

so my head isn't technically racing after the heats.

Also, I've probably one of the best,

I don't know how I've developed this,

but I'm really good at forgetting, like certain things.

So if I have a bad set,

I can completely wipe it out my memory.

I don't remember.

Wow.

And I, like, I'll, it can be like next day.

Next day, I won't remember.

Like, I'm really good at only remembering

the things I'm good at.

So always, always been that way as well.

Yeah, like everybody says was so jealous of me,

because they'll, they'll bring up a session like a week ago

that I didn't do very well.

They're like, oh, you were terrible.

There's a shout out.

I don't know what it's all.

I don't even remember the set.

Yeah, when you've been running your brother,

are you like, no, that must not have been me.

It must have been anything.

But I, I, if I had, if I had,

I only remember the stuff that I've done well.

Like, I only ever done that.

And I think that's also one of the reasons why,

when I was like coming to Loughborough,

they would always laugh at me because I always tell them,

I'm going to be a little bit champion.

I'm going to be the best.

And they would always like, people would never take it seriously.

I remember people would like,

video be saying it and then say,

well, look back at this for four years

when you don't do it.

And like, for me, like, I always knew I was going to do it.

I was always putting in the work to do it.

I just needed the race to do it.

And the Felix I remember was a week after the Olympics,

we all sat down.

It was something I was like, I just,

who's like, I just don't, you always said it and you just did it.

And it's like you even put like the whole

down to like the exact time to the exact race plan,

all panned out, like, exact,

I like know everything how it's going to happen,

like I made a three year plan from Tokyo to Paris,

exactly at the end of each season,

what time I'm going to go,

what place I'm going to have,

wrong one.

I got it wrong one time because at the World Champs in 2023,

I got two four places and I expected to get a medal,

like a bronze medal,

but the time I went should have got a bronze medal.

It's just unfortunate that it was the golden age and distance

where everybody's going this fast.

So it became like that,

but I didn't really see it as like a,

it was a setback,

it just kind of pushed me on even further.

So we always say we can't complain if you PB.

I know.

I always PB at big competitions,

apart from last season when I had the appendix issue,

but I've never not had a competition

where I've not PB international meet.

So I've lost a lot of time on it, dude.

Yeah, you can be up there with your best.

Yeah, that's the right message.

All right, dude, so we got some rapid fire questions,

and we'll wrap it up.

Yeah.

I don't know how rapid it will be between the two

because we're going to go back.

And I know Danny would probably ask you this

a couple of years ago when we chat,

but let's hit a few of these again.

So Nathan, what's the hardest race in swimming?

To the back lumbles.

Dan, what would you say?

I go, I don't know,

because I even go to the back all four,

did I have so between the two.

All right, Dan Olympic gold or gold record?

This has changed recently, actually, Olympic gold.

What's it really?

Okay.

I used to be well, I'll give you so I used to be well record,

and then I realized after winning the picks

that it's actually never really about the time,

like I've done both obviously,

by obviously one who won post world record,

but it's more about for me,

it's like, I've got more satisfaction

out of my hand than the wall, out the Olympics,

and I did breaking a wall rap board, so.

Mine is also Olympic gold.

All right, what about Nathan?

I say 50, not 50, but it's not going to upset me.

I thought I was going to say,

hey, I'm just going to say it.

I upset me.

All right, Nathan, what's the most annoying thing

a teammate can do?

Leave early.

All right, Daniel.

Sprint the last rap.

I'm not trying the rest.

I'm not trying the right.

I'm not completely sat with sat off

and then it's trying the last rap.

Don't get me started on last one, fast one.

When fast is written on all of the reps

throughout the set,

and then the last one is when you're going to write it.

It's such a thing that we say as well,

but we all have different than ours.

I know we always go,

but you didn't win the last reps,

so it doesn't count.

Oh, we're sending a bad message here.

All right, Dan, if you had to delete every app

on your phone, except three,

what are the three that you're keeping?

I'm keeping my rebel nutrition app.

I'm keeping my point Instagram on the YouTube Studio app.

All right, I'm going YouTube Amazon Prime.

Like, like, is it like Amazon?

Oh, like Amazon?

Not the video, not the video, just Amazon.

And then,

apparently,

I'd say Netflix.

Okay, all right, all entertainment on that one, all right.

Okay.

Nathan, fuck Mary Kill Guinness,

Jameson and Carrie Gold butter.

I've never had Jameson so...

Guinness is a,

I'm going to marry Guinness.

I have to be carried gold,

but I don't know why we don't eat carry gold.

Eric also, I even like Irish as well.

Is it not?

Did he sell it in Ireland?

I don't think he sell it in Ireland.

We just pretended it is then.

Well, I already know what that is.

So I guess I'm choosing that for the...

I'll say F, I guess I'm getting rid of Jameson.

I don't even like whiskey.

I'm going to exact same, I'm going to exact same.

All right, fair enough, they get...

Okay.

What's the hardest set that you've ever done?

It's how it goes first.

Hardest set ever done.

I'm the new one.

You go first.

All right.

I was recently in Las Vegas for the soundpipers.

I went to a train out in the nation, I was at ACC's.

Honestly, the hardest train week I've ever done in my life.

I'll happily say it.

Those, they trained so hard.

I've never experienced.

I got ill as well off it, like from training that hard.

Every session is hard.

I could have done it when I was younger,

but now I'm like at the stage I am.

I'm like, it was ridiculous.

And there are a bit of altitude as well.

So it made it even harder.

But they did the set called the Simone, I think they called it.

And it's like a 300 kick for time.

And then I've already forgot the set.

And then a 50, a 50, all out kick.

And then two, two 50s as fast as you can go.

And then a 200 kick for time.

And then a 50 kick for time.

And then a, and then two 50s again.

And then basically you do the same thing again.

And then you add on two 100s all out of the end, freestyle.

And you just see them again, add on top of the two ones.

And then you add on another two 150s at the end,

so it's just a load of all out, basically.

Yeah, that sounds brutal.

Yeah, I'm terrible at kick as well.

Like I'm horrendous.

So when I did the set, it was at 5 a.m. in the morning

because he trained really early.

And I'm not going up that early since I was like 12 years old.

So it was like, it was the hardest set I've done in a while.

Because I'm not good at kick, it makes it even harder.

I was thinking through like most of my sets are like not that long.

I'm just not, it's like lactate production ones.

I've got like two in Colorado Springs,

we did 2050s, one dive, one push.

And that was brutal.

Like you can hardly get out the water

and dive by the end of it.

And there they are.

Two minutes, two minutes.

Good.

You couldn't breathe.

And then the best for our set was that the whole group did it.

So the sprinters did like one every like eight minutes

all the way up.

And then they just said like one every four minutes.

So we were going all the time and then they were joining in like every so often.

And then another one I would say is like broken swims.

It's just awful.

Like I think where we're starting to petition to ban broken swims

because of how much they hurt.

We don't, I remember in Lafrey we did three fours broken.

I'm like, I don't think I've ever done,

I did that once and I'll never do it again.

Like it was just the most painful thing ever.

Yeah.

Well, we're starting to petition to make mandatory social kick

at the beginning of every practice in the end of every practice.

So how much are you guys doing?

Well, it's every session.

I don't mind.

I said that being able to have the biggest files to social kick.

But now we've adopted it into our trade again.

It's happened to get at least two jabieses of session.

That's what it's all about.

Hell yeah.

Well, thanks for spending time on this episode of social kick.

Guys, it's been fun to chat with you again, Dan

and get to speak with you some Nathan.

You got what you guys are doing with social

and sharing your story is really fun to watch.

Oh, thank you.

Thanks.

You're welcome back anytime.

We're excited to have some fun with a connection

with you guys and are certainly cheering you on for what's to come.

And welcome to California.

Yeah, thank you.

All right, that's it for this episode of social kick.

And we'll see you guys next time.

Hey, everyone, thanks for hanging out with us.

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