Dark Side of DCC Fame

0:00Hello and welcome to this week's episode of You Can Call Me Karen. This week we have a slight argument, slight debate over who's the Karen and you'll have to listen in to hear where we land on that. But it wouldn't be a season of You Can Call Me Karen if we didn't talk dance and specifically the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. This is the first of a two-part series on season three of America Sweet Hearts on Netflix and we go deeper on both a few of the old themes of the show and then also explore some of the new themes that have been presented this season. You'll note we realize there is just way too much to cover in only one one hour episode so you will be hearing the wrap up of this conversation next week and if you haven't watched the season yet be prepared for a few spoilers or

1:00hit pause go watch that show and come on back when you're ready to hear us break it down. But for now off to Dallas We Go! Hello everyone welcome back to You Can Call Me Karen. As I was telling my co-hosts before we started I have no idea where this episode is gonna take us but I know it's gonna be a good one. One thing I was thinking about before jumping on is how terrible we are at recapping shows like we are not a recap podcast are we guys? Not at all. I think we're excellent. I would listen to us. Oh my gosh but

2:04we are going to attempt to recap Steph and I at least Karen apparently is a pro. We're gonna attempt to recap Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders America Sweet Hearts for today's episode as we do if you've been with us for the last four seasons you know that this is kind of a signature on You Can Call Me Karen. We started by doing a three-part series of DCC and then it's just been incorporated into our material ever since so why stop now right ladies? Since we're so good at it we should just like have a spinoff pod of like oh my god DCC and just all things all things well it is a very You Can Call Me Karen signature to discuss tickets on this podcast because of our background so that's why and if you

3:05don't like it fuck off if you don't like it I'm short wait Steph did you just have a seat? Where did you go? What? I can't wait to play back that video. Oh my gosh for those of you guys not watching on YouTube Steph was just kind of like in a space where I don't know where she went. She knows it's funny I so I'm just not used to the fact that my phone is connected like I have a Mac but I have been a DC person like my whole life and a text came through and I was like like and I don't so anyway I was like what does your phone have to do with this right now but I get it and I've had a Mac now for like a year and a half and I still it's just not in my spirit it's not part of who I am yet I had to stop recording on my Mac because

4:06yeah the instructions were really distracting me so my apologies if I was supposed to laugh or because I'm still like yeah you were just like that we saw my apologies it's okay what do they call it? Not a seizure yeah would they call it the millennial stare now is that what they oh what it like it's a trigger to being a millennial yeah I don't know the information they make fun of us all the time they're losers they're also wrong the millennials make the world go round that were like hello no oh my god all right we're gonna get into that in the episode I don't even think I introduced you guys what's up how you doing everybody knows us by now yeah that's right we've been doing this for five seasons nobody cares about little intros okay is that insensitive of me am I being a Kelly right now what's

5:07she see how I use that I do turns me on when you talk like that yeah and a little bit of a Judy was I being a little bit of a Judy all right speaking of names that are significant to personality traits who we calling Karen this week well so first of all as a millennial and I'm like an old where elder to millennials right like the zenials yeah well speak for yourself but listen listen you know five I'm right in the middle there are you know it's can I call us geriatric millennials yeah it's it's really hurtful but it's true we are all kind of headed into subracer cells everyone caring for parents and so so just

6:15I'm profusing this story with the fact that I'm not like caring for my mom and like she doesn't live with me or anything but I'm starting to manage her like health and appointments and all that kind of stuff so I was at panera to get some schoolwork done yesterday because I'm also in grad school and I get a voicemail from her primary care because my mom had two doctors appointments this past week and so the second one was just like a follow up or something and she had some blood work done and the voicemail is basically giving me some information about like her condition they want to make some adjustments to medications whatever so I called the voicemail asks me to verify like a dosage for one of her medicines before they submit the refill so I called the assisted living room my mom lives well the nurse there she doesn't really speak English like it's not her

7:18first language and she's kind of feisty and so I really have to be deliberate when I'm talking to her and if anybody knows me I don't know if you guys know this about me but if I'm on the phone I paste do you do you guys know that about me that I walk walk back and forth I'm a big pacer so I'm at panera and I was sitting at the table and I was gonna go outside to make the phone call but oh the air quality thing and it was blazing hot and I didn't want to start sweating so I'd have to go back to my seat to work so I make the phone call and I'm talking to a nurse about medications for my mom I'm having to be very clear very deliberate on like no I need you to do this can you check that blah blah blah and I'm like pacing back and forth I have to call her I also have called the doctor back like I'm like obviously having like an official call and I'm pacing around this guy at panera had the other fucking audacity to say to me he says um can you go back over

8:30there with that and I'm already sworked up like my my schoolwork it has been interrupted I was on the phone for almost a half hour because I have two phone calls to make I'm talking about dosages of medications talking about you know all these different things it's very serious and he interrupted me to tell me to go somewhere else and so I'm gonna turn sideways because I'm on the phone and say you are him I went like I snapped my head and I did one of these like you know like get out of here with my hand it's like this all that could come out I went like and then he was like what I didn't come here he was like I didn't come here to here and so I started to walk away and he was like I didn't come here to hear all that and I was like and if I were on the phone with someone who like she like really needed me to continue with what I was saying I if it were like Steve or something

9:34I would have been like I'm gonna call you back because I was fired up I was ready to cuss him out like call the damn police carrying me out like I was so mad like excuse me this is not a fucking library this is Panera Bread I knew where this story was going as you were setting it up and I felt conflicted if I'm going to be extremely honest it was very short interaction uh-huh and um I continued on like I still had more to go and yeah and that's it and I wish that people who were listening could see your face and mine yeah and how you were like to the man your reaction because it was so great and I would never want to be met by that facial expression I don't want to be on the other I don't want to be on the other after I've never seen

10:38say another word after that I'm sure I did and and I didn't have to curse so out loud I mean I did and right now we are embracing him I'm sorry no we're not sorry no I'm not sorry to him I'm sorry for the rage and the loud in the spring oh no we're not gonna apologize for that because you weren't a you weren't a very stressful situation and I feel like this is what Karen was alluding to a couple weeks ago about like how these Karen stories have like really messed with how I show up in the world and like disrupted my judgment a little bit because I think on my notes app for Karen's I have quite a few of people talking on the phone and public spaces and that's why it was conflicted because I have to be honest about that I do have a couple of those that I will now never share because

11:41well here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing I was I was in a space where there wasn't anyone seated where I was mostly like pacing and then I got distracted because like I was like you're gonna need to ask her I said something to her the nurse I was like you're gonna need to ask her how she's doing before you increase the dose because it said something like two weeks you give her this and then you can increase the dose after two weeks I was like but the doctor said to like I would maybe ask her about her things she's like what says this and I was like I hear you but the doctor said that it's okay to blah blah blah you know I'm giving her directions and so I drifted kind of over into the area where there were people and that's when he like you know popped off at me but I will say this I will say this first he was on a quieter side of the

12:42restaurant where I was stationed like doing my work was so loud it was probably the loudest panera session I've ever had there were two sets of parents with multiple kids there was a man who was doing like business calls and this guy was like spoke Arabic and so you know like very loud aggressive he was sitting right behind me there was music playing it was a really loud day and I didn't say a word to anybody about it even though I was very very distracted because I am not at a fucking library I am at panera bread a whole team of soccer players could come in sit right next to me I can't tell them to be quiet I'm here to do work panera is a restaurant a fast food restaurant and so you don't get to decide what environment you're in and if it's not quite enough for you

13:43you leave because if I was not able to do my work I would have left but there were a lot of instances where the kids were being loud the guy was on the making calls behind me there music was a little louder than I was used to out of panera it was very distracting and but not for me when I was irritated with the noise I made the choice I'm like if it's not so bad I'm able to get my work done and I did get my work done and I didn't tell anyone to be quiet I didn't tell anyone where to put their kids I didn't tell the guy to take his call outside I did not interact with anybody around me and so you get to you decide in a public space whether you're gonna stay or go but you don't interact with me you can go fuck yourself that's the whole last word I don't think I'm left to say also did you guys hear what she said here listen also it's not like if you're not we're gonna we're this is your last little bit because I'm keeping track of time

14:45okay this is you go also 30 more seconds I want to be clear too if you overheard my what I was saying it's not like I was like it actually doesn't matter what I was talking about but it's not like I was like oh my god and then I heard that they broke up and then I was like what what like I was not kicking I was talking about dosages I was talking about injections I was talking about like you know illinuses like I was clearly on a serious like phone call yeah and so you know that part does make it different for me actually like it's not like I was goofing around and so again you if you overheard me then you also overheard what I was talking about yeah I'm gonna put a pen in that yeah I'm gonna put a pen in that it's penera bread now if I was at the library if I was at the library you can you can ask me to be quiet this is making me want penera

15:49by the way great little oh my gosh penera bread so good I haven't I only go like every once in a while because I sometimes convince myself that it's like trash but then I go and I'm like actually delicious it's delicious it's expensive I'm like what it is really expensive okay ladies I'm calling it okay I'm calling it moving on moving on moving on that's you got it off your chest yes you got it off your chest still pretty mad and I think that yes we know and I think that the lesson is it's none of your business that's when I told Steve he was like that's the true Karen of it is mind your fucking business yeah mind your fucking business and then go on your own podcast and then tell the story about yeah tell this about how this crazy lady was pacing around don't bring it to me all right thanks

16:57you're very welcome you just heard our Karen stories but we can't be the only ones if you've had a Karen or Chad encounter or confessional you've been a Karen yourself we'd love to hear from you wherever you listen click on the link in our show notes and text us your Karen stories okay all right are we ready to get started are we ready to jump in ready okay before we jump in I've like broken this down into segments so I noticed in the last couple of episodes my co-host have not been putting a lot of notes in the document and I'm like are we being like really whimsy here and not doing the digital anymore I really want to go to like cards like how old 90s talk shows you stuff cards and like on the back of it the audience will see like you can call me Karen and like I just pull out like a card I see in some podcasters do that really that what we

17:59get Steve to do for our graphics next next season is like like design a back for a card and that's how we show our questions that's aside the point but I was like okay so do I use the document do I not use the document no I I like the document that's more black or prep okay yeah I was gonna say I think if you looked back historically manny I love you your documents are always about five pages long yeah and ours are usually about two so I don't I did notice DRL seemed totally blank whenever I did I had another document yeah I noticed you had another document that you don't show because I didn't want you to see the what I was yeah yeah yeah but besides that I still use it I just don't put quite as much in it okay well I took more of an outline format so we'll see how this goes

19:02okay okay um so tell the audience what episode you guys got up to for prepping for our conversation today just so they can have some context on what you know and what you don't know I really only made it to episode three okay as I I fell asleep so you didn't see who made the team yet oh I didn't see that I didn't see who made the team which is like so bananas to me because like five or yeah it goes how it goes like all the way up to like five or six before you see who actually makes the team and how long is the season how long is the net for how many episodes I think it's like six so I mean seven oh oh it's not ten I don't think so because I was surprised when I got to the last episode I was like wait weren't we found out who made the team like more than halfway through the season I felt that way in prior seasons though too I'm like wait I thought we were going to

20:02watch them like dance on the field and do various performances and stuff but no yes all about this tryout process so hold on to that knowing about that and like the production of it all when we're having this conversation okay so the series starts with voiceovers of like here for the right reasons I don't know if you guys picked up on that which I was like okay so automatically like this is going to be the theme for the season of like who's here for the right reasons DCC has become so popular that like now they have to eliminate people by deciding their motive for trying out which like whatever we can get into that well or we will get into that but it was contradicted by the fact that they voted they had the audience up front on somebody to be on the team so I'm like I this show baffles me in so many ways and I don't think that the I'm not going to put it on Netflix of

21:10like they're trying to tell a specific story I think they're trying to give us the full picture of like this is what they say and this is what they do and this is what they say and this is what they do and like it doesn't really come to a clear conclusion I don't think it's supposed to but I found immediately being like wait what like where did this voting come from and did we even see who the audience chose I don't remember seeing that just in the episode one is that one girl it was journey okay that was lost on me I might not have been paying as much attention okay but there was more there was but there was more than just one but they focused on journey I'm guessing because journey made it further like you know to training camp or whatever they call that I must have do stuff on the voting yeah I was like when they vote really who get into it too it was

22:13very brief okay and then journey and then like she came up on stage and hugged someone and that was it this was during the live show and they like brought the people out on the scene where they're like their tour their tour they're like dancing yeah their live I think it was called a live show right um yeah it was during that so I'm like how can you say who's here for the right reasons and then also I think America vote on it yeah like make it a competition reality show where it's about popularity you know because they're also making money off of all of this so exactly yeah and I found that part a little counter three as well because she was saying that she had always kind of wanted to do like a tour or some sort of like show where the cheerleaders were the focus and she's basically saying because of the popularity of the show they have the ability to even go on tour because of the personalities and the storylines so you can't um what which one

23:20which do you want right it's perfectly well put so you guys missed a couple of conversations I think these occurred after the team was um selected so you haven't made it to that part but you guys did tell me that you're okay with spoilers so I'm gonna give a tiny little spoiler here actually it's not even really a spoiler but I'm gonna share something that came up in episodes after the team was selected so one was a conversation between Klein and a former DCC alum I can't remember her name but she was the black girl not Jade who was captain or whatever you want to call it um in the first season so they're having this conversation about who's here for the right reason and like kind of going hard on the newer people who are coming in and saying like if you're just here to like get an inf be an influencer and like take like pictures and be like I'm like you know better to do than like you are like I'm gonna have words about that you know like I'm

24:24gonna tell you I'm gonna then cut to her TikTok dancing and like hey where DCC where do you guys on her phone like in between you know and they're like they basically like call it like the time before Netflix and the time after Netflix and what it was like to be a DCC dancer when you didn't have the Netflix show and how that build was for them versus now coming in and being like famous through a docu series and the other one was Judy saying how she used to have an opinion about the girls coming in and doing so much social media but how that influencer lifestyle allows for them to no longer have to hold multiple jobs and then you cut to Jade who was from last season talking about how she kind of quit her not kind of she quit her full-time job

25:26to go full-time influencer and it can pay anywhere between five thousand to fifty thousand dollars for a project and she's just been living off of brand deals so my first question is yeah does you can call me Karen need to link up with a brand because what well I know that they pay for it's advertising right so those are advertising dollars to hear the dollar figures really interesting and like what what all does that entail so if I'm saying this is a five thousand dollar deal do I have to do one thing on social media or does it have to be like my water bottle has it on every single time like what are the parameters for something like that so how many of those deals can you have going at once kind of I have questions I guess is where I'm going but but I feel like my immediate thought this probably was from first season discussion about their compensation and the fact that

26:33they have to hold multiple jobs while doing a pretty intense job as cheerleader for the cowboys and my immediate thought was like well the football players get to do all this stuff and they have you know their name is worth something so good on them for capitalizing for the first time ever like the brand that employs them for almost nothing they they still haven't said how much the cowboys pay them and I know that's probably intentional although I'm very curious but they did say that before the before times they were getting $15 an hour minimum wage I thought I'm gonna like $75 a game or something like that like which is not great how do you just deny that it seems illegal yeah for I mean I know $15 an hour is more than minimum wage I

27:33believe so like that's not illegal I thought minimum wage went up I guess it's by stealing they're in Texas yeah I like that point because it's something that I want to talk about further down the line but I can you know mention it here I'm like right now I'm working with some student interns and I'm really seeing like what I expect of them as an intern who I'm paying a certain amount of money versus if they were just volunteering for my organization versus if they were more than an entry-level employee and I feel like this conversation is like the organization is expecting so much perfection for entry-level wages and that feels so like a bullshit yeah like unethical you know yes well and we can get more into it with like the injuries and the

28:37makeovers and the beauty standard we'll talk about this when I bring up another podcast but like that I've listened to but like there's so much that they are putting on them that like in any other industry an entry-level employee would not have to hold those expectations because you're entry-level and you're getting paid just for the bare minimum of work you know so I find that very fascinating with this show is that like why does that happen and I feel like we're continually going to have that conversation but I feel like it was really named for me when I talk about this other terminology that I found when I was listening to this other podcast and then the other thing that I found that I don't think they mentioned in the first couple of episodes and I actually don't think that they mentioned at all in the season and I think it's like social media sleuths that bomb this out but faith you know how they're like highlighting faith the blonde cruise dancer and

29:37Emily yeah can we talk about her yeah well I don't I want to kind of this goes into the next part too like I want to kind of stay away from the actual girls as much as we can because I feel like that was part of the like people talking about the girls individually like we became the villains for that for talking about the girls individually throughout this whole season and I kind of want to frame our discussion around like what was shown to us versus like the actual reality of it so faith was actually recruited by the Dallas Cowboy organization yeah did they show that in the season I mean recruited they kind of downplayed it but they were showing the one woman one of the women on the staff who I hadn't seen in prior seasons I don't think but anyways she was saying how she follows a lot of these influencer dancers on social media and when she sees someone that has what she feels like

30:42would be the the factor for DCC she will reach out to them so she like DM'd faith on one of the platforms and was like hey I love your stuff like if you're interested you should try out and then gave her the links to the website and the information and stuff yeah hmm which like why are we unhappy about that oh go ahead Steph because I for me it's like she still has to go through the audition process and be talked about as if like she seemed kind of was she on the chopping block or like did it it just seemed like they were hesitant about her talking about her in this late on a series that people tune into like I don't know I just feel like you're asking her to sign up to be judged publicly it wasn't a guaranteed spot but no it's just weird I don't know the way

31:45they framed it is like she said something like you know you should consider trying out or something it wasn't like they went out to see her and they would hurt okay I don't think but okay so I didn't feel like if there was anything I don't know I'm doing that because I have two pricklies and my belly about it one is this is a deceptive move by the organization and the NFL because the NFL I remember the NBA doing this too is trying to get more international viewers because they're losing viewership and so this is their way of saying because they know the cheerleaders are more popular at this moment than the cowboys actually are this is their way of getting international eyes on the NFL and the Dallas Cowboy organization but then to go and say

32:47who's here for the right reasons and then try to frame the season around I can't believe that people with this kind of social media following want to do this show only to get more followers is disingenuous because they're the ones who like did it I think it's exactly what they want like they want us sitting here talking about it well that's what I'm saying like I think that like like a critical analysis would do that but like they're trying in this goes into the next segment of like they're trying to point social media in the viewers and you know online platforms as the villain and it's like no you're still the villain you're still the puppet master doing all this yeah this right yeah you have to go to YouTube to see it you gotta go to you gotta watch us on YouTube so I just want to give how popular faith is in comparison to other dancers so Reese has

33:531.1 million Instagram followers and 1.2 million TikTok followers and her last she doesn't even post on TikTok that much her last TikTok post was April 15th and she still whoa yes she posts like every other month and still has a million followers okay faith follow by the way I know we're getting up there we're almost at two now faith follows behind her as the second most popular DCC with 525,000 Instagram followers and 630,000 TikTok followers but to compare influencer before right like she well well compared to another influencer who we know love Abby summers who is only at

34:55206,000 followers and 425,000 followers on TikTok and she's American and went to one of the biggest universities yeah that's what I mean about faith is I think I don't know the way that they painted her on the show was that she was an influencer in Australia like she had a name that was recognizable in Australia at least in the dance community right so she probably came here with a significant number of followers to your earlier point probably why they targeted her right because they'll be able to get free publicity or free-ish publicity in Australia for the NF. Well I'm gonna go NURR like like they all started to NURRR I'm gonna bring us back to what I said like let's hold in this conversation of like the Netflix of it all of like but Netflix could choose to follow anybody and Netflix chooses these people who they like when we're looking at Reese

36:02why Reese why Reese she was just as average an ordinary as any other dancer so the right reasons is really confusing as a viewer because it's like but the show chooses who they're going to make the main person and storyline for the season you know like the girls don't have any really control over that like I was wondering as I was watching this year because it became apparent to me like Klein she's the fifth year veteran or whatever and I was like I don't remember her in prior seasons right because they obviously didn't like zoom in on her at any point but I took to her because she's feisty and I like that she's actually very quirky she has a lot of gifts she's really cool a lot of gifts yeah like talent say more beyond dancing she plays the piano she plays the clarinet she like they were showing like her mom and dad are like into like Taekwondo and they

37:08do that lessons inside of the house like if you look at her house it's very eclectic like she's she's kind of a nerd she's a nerd yeah yeah I get that from her yeah like I like her I like the way that they zoomed in on her like I'm not gonna let these people dictate how I feel about myself or like the space around me kind of a thing and I think that's very cool but I was thinking about it because of that right like I was like where was this girl last year the year before like she's freaking cool mm-hmm and why and so then I was wondering do they when they film this do they follow everyone and ask everyone questions and then figure out which storyline is going to be the most interesting or do they at the very start decide it's faith and Emily and we're gonna follow them and no one else I don't I'd be curious how the production process actually is executed yeah same

38:09so as I mentioned before the villain of the season this time is reddit yeah to me I literally do people just sit around on reddit I don't understand I was so flabbergasted I couldn't believe that the girls go on reddit and then I went on to reddit I'm like there are so many threads about America's sweet hearts it is really fascinating to see that there's this like subculture that exists beyond the platforms that I'm on I just I'm in that these younger girls and that's what they go to they go to reddit first to like I don't know you guys I just googled is there a beef between Netflix and reddit because I'm wondering like is this Netflix trying to mess with reddit's

39:11reputation or whatever and it does it says there's no official corporate feud but it sounds like reddit is a platform where people use their sentiment towards netflix is frequently negative so I wonder if this is like a way for them to like discount the way we have the power here like we actually have the power here it all comes back to the to capitalism and the patriarchy which is a good second way I'm gonna skip through the villain of the season I think we can come back to it at the end but that's a good segue to this podcast that I listened to yesterday called the sports gossip I'm gonna tag them they've become like a new favorite part of mine it's these two millennial women who talk about sports and they do it through the lens of the patriarchy and it's amazing so they did an episode on them on america's sweet heart and it was really hard for me to be like okay so

40:16like do I just direct everyone to their podcast and like forfeit even doing this podcast or like do I bother here just to steal their intellectual property because we're like they're sponsored by eBay and people listen to them and not us so um but no I'm just gonna take a couple of pieces of their knowledge and they did the actual research of the history of cheerleading and the purpose of cheerleading and found some really fascinating written pieces on it and one of the first terminologies that they talked about was hegemonic masculinity meaning cheering is the contrast to the male sport of football so cheerleading only exists to like increase the toxic masculine um notion that football is like inherently masculine and foreman because look at where the

41:18girls are they're over here on the sideline cheering and they said this is what was the fascinating part they said look at this through the lens that their season only ended because the football team season ended we stop following the DCC because the cowboys couldn't make the playoffs or because cowboys only won one playoff game and that's why they're crying and weeping not because they're sad that the team lost but because their visibility their job depends depends on if the men how far the men can go oh my gosh Karen I love your body language right now what's going on I love it I don't even know how to articulate how I'm feeling so then what do we like fuck man yeah you know I do I do absolutely fuck man I know which like

42:24brings me to another inner woven piece of this of like the red pill of it all like the religious talk like I want when I end this season like now I can be a wife you know like the tradwife of it all you know that it's just so interesting to me that this is the team that we're following because of their subsurbaned yeah that's great thank you for filling in that word for me yeah sorry to interject that's the word that I love to have no other words but like that's it yeah so that's why that fight for that essentially was like them unionizing and like getting more pay but now we don't see how much they get paid right like that's why it's like also ambiguous you know it's wild and then the other piece that the podcast brought up was the aesthetic labor and the emotional labor that the women have to hold while the men are playing so aesthetically they have to look a certain way

43:32besides and faith is a good I like faith here is like a little anomaly that I like wanted we didn't talk much about her ponytail the ponytail of it all but like the aesthetic labor of like the herography and how they have to wear cowboy boots for three hours straight cannot sit down at all during the game the game that they focused on once the team like made it was a game that went into overtime and so like the girls are like oh my god oh my god if this goes into overtime I'm gonna fucking kill somebody and then like the crowd is like the crowd is like over time like Kelly especially he's like we're going to overtime baby you know when they're like yeah fuck yeah this is fucking terrible you know yeah do I get overtime pay for that is exactly what they said that's exactly what they said do I get overtime pay and then also the emotional labor they said if like holding

44:33like the joy for the stands and the fans when the cowboys are doing when the cowboys are doing terrible it's like it's okay we're so okay we're so good and they can't experience the same thing that a fan experiences when the cowboys are losing they have to be like they have to hold the emotional weight of a hundred thousand people plus those watching on TV so that for what for what and not get paid for it going back to our pay conversation and not get paid for any that it reminds me of the conversations about like women in the household and the emotional labor and the invisible labor that we do that we get paid we don't get any sort of recognition or monetary pay for because the masculine patriarchy is more about the toxicity of the workplace and being in and hitting people and going out gathering whatever I don't know I don't know what I'm trying to say I'm trying to

45:37gauge you guys is body language is sad right now yeah so I cheered for a couple years in high school and my first year I was on JV and we lost every single game as and I'm pretty I'm pretty sure we lost every game and if we won one it was maybe only one and so like that what you were saying you just like you know like like it's okay and like mind you this is JV football so we're it's Saturday morning the only people in the stands are maybe our parents and the players why do we have to smile through this you guys you know and so it's just like and I'm and then all I'm thinking

46:38about too is like the purpose of cheerleaders and like uplifting the men and maintaining some sort of persona and we do it for like you know there's youth cheer there's you know cheerleader tauts and we're just like training them from when they're like five years old to like you know grin and bear it kind of a thing and there's another thought that's like formulating but it's not like organized yet but it's something to the effect of like the tradwife topic that you brought up and the right reasons where like the women who are there to promote themselves and to grab capitalism by the balls and make money and create their own fame are villainized but the women who are you know just there to be pretty and then choose the lord and their man are okay I don't know I haven't

47:40which is like I thought every man on that football field is there for himself full stop you know like I'm getting so fired up because it's like no matter where you look in our society everything is about capitalism and the patriarchy and as former dancers ourselves right you get this show that highlights the people who have come up in a similar you know circumstances or you know lifestyle process whatever like they grew up in the dance world some of them were on the same dance team like as we were ish and you know and people we know are and then they have this moment in the sun and it's all underlined by this bullshit and I get I've always had a challenge is the word I should use with cheerleading for these exact reasons like it's like the man is always the center you know the game

48:46is the most important the male athlete is the most important and the most impressive but like we don't want to hurt women's feelings so you can stand over here and dance around when your hair and makeup are done really nice like I've always had a problem with that but there's a part of me that's like well that's better than nothing I don't know that's so so sad you know that that's the I'll close this out with this I'll respond to that of like one of the things that I found really fascinating on that podcast was that when they went through the history of cheerleading history the history revealed that cheerleading was predominantly male and then somehow through time we made it that's how the hegemonic masculinity comes in somehow through time we made it like no we need some sort of counter to like show that like the football team is the most important like the men are the most important in this and then the other was going back to the here the right reasons making it as a professional dancer is the highest achievement for a dancer so wouldn't it

49:49doesn't matter if they're doing it for influencer this is this is the pinnacle of your dancing career and you only have so much time to do it based off of what your body is going to allow you to so like of everyone who comes on here is doing it to be famed because for famed because this is a dancer's dream like it's the same as a football player like they're doing that because maybe they have a dream to make it into the NFL one day the highest version of being a football player like what is wrong with that absolutely nothing the note already that you get from being a DCC you know and you do your five seasons can then parlay you into opening your own studio or being hired or choreographing for different studios or you know the your career can continue if you can you know make a name for yourself yeah I agree because again your body isn't going to be able to do

50:52the things that it was going to do so you're the just like a football player just like a like any athlete right so yeah impeccable point I have a couple of other things here that we didn't get to and I'm trying to like mentally run through how to choose which one to go through and I just want a little permission to go maybe 10 minutes over and I'll pay for it I was gonna say that or do we finish the season and have another discussion on this because we can do that we can do that because I am enjoying this but I also want to like talk about the dance and the girls and the drama and all of that and feel a little happier about the show I don't think that that will get you to happiness if I'm being honest no it won't no no no no the anger won't be so deep rooted in my soul

52:00that's how I feel about feminism and all of that so you know um woman myself all right so how about this how about we end now with some predictions and we can come back to some of the other stuff um so instead of professionals let's do some predictions yeah so season one the antagonist was like the body image stuff I feel like in the page no season two was the pay oh I thought it came up in season they did they definitely like at least covered it covered it but it wasn't the entire focus right it wasn't the focal point yeah it was more like the um victoria was season one of like are you fueling it was the fueling conversation and then season two became the conversation about like the pay and like we're doing all putting in all this we have multiple jobs season three the villain and the antagonist was here for the right reasons influencer culture reddit us podcasters who are analyzing the show

53:06and putting it out there so where does the show go next who's who predicts the antagonist for next season this is a that's a tough freaking question my first thought is basically the same as this season but like I think you texted us and we're like they are eating the boyfriends alive I don't know if you could make a whole season on that but just everyone hating the men oh I like that like the those that don't uplift these women's aspirations to continue until their full term and you know I mean like are we after the men who they're with who don't celebrate with their up to or discourage them yeah you're asking care in that is that I'm asking care in like when you say

54:11oh no I was saying how we all dog the men because the women are so attractive and they pick less attractive partners but I feel like there is something to to me so you guys haven't seen this yet but reseeves retires and the focus on reddit you could tell yeah you could tell the focus on reddit and some of the focus on the conversation that they show on Netflix is will and how supportive will is like will quit his job to help with the brand deal stuff that Reese was doing because so many brands were coming in and it's like how you know and so to Stephanie's point of like okay we see these husbands like scrubbing uniforms like helping the girls because they can't do it all and then also kind of being like but I miss my partner like that role

55:13but it's time to have a family but it's time to yeah so that like roverversal and your point Karen of like I I know it sounds superficial about like the appearance of the husbands but I do think that a bright radiant supportive partner has an attraction of and eludes and aura that like whatever's happening on their face doesn't matter it comes through and their personalities such so I'm like they are amazing and I'm rooting for them so I would I could see Steph a storyline of like the verses you know those husbands versus because it's so much talk on social media like who are you choosing as a partner why and the other thing that I heard on this podcast with the tradwife of it all is like it's kind of a departure from this conversation but a

56:13worthy question of where are the 47-year-old tradwives where are they what happened to them why are they all 25 nobody's coming out right now and being like this was the life for me a lot of them are coming out and being like I was duped I was duped I feel like part of that though is generational because the 47-year-olds aren't like they didn't grow up in social media and like that's not you know like being an influencer for a 47-year-old today is kind of a reach like an influencer job feels like a 20-something I don't know I don't know I feel like I mean is that I'm influenced definitively but I do think that has an impact on the volume of people but like I don't believe a tradwife a tradwife is just a person who portrays an image on social media to make money and the concept behind a tradwife is that you stay home you make a perfect home for your family

57:15and your husband and you are subservient again and the reality of those successful tradwives on social media is they're the moneymaker like they're using this image of a personality but they're actually rolling in money and endorsements and all that stuff so it's like it's just a mine fuck yeah it's just like I didn't even think about oh my god but they believe it we see that they're the ones role it's like the whole thing that happened with the like turning point conference right of the women believing that like they should the best way to like summarise the notion no but like they're like I think I should work and be able to make money but like also conservatism is that like women don't talk and shut the fuck up you know but like yes here you are with the platform you know like I don't think and making a ton of money and making and making a ton of money on it yeah sorry one last prediction yeah what if the villain is finally the like the coaching and management

58:23stuff would they do that actually I think they were working really hard this season to build a culture around feedback and I really wanted to get into that conversation today let's put a pin in it I do want to talk about that because I also found myself conflicted in that as somebody who is older now mentoring younger women I had a little bit of a soft spot for Kelly and Judy if I'm not gonna lot I'm not gonna lie about that I did so I wouldn't have to I think there's two sides to that coin for sure so I would love to have a conversation around that especially as a coach or experience exactly I was like a really much yes I really want stuff like I really want yours from being in like you know a position the the positions that you're in so yes let's put a pin in that and then last prediction who's gonna come back and make it because I already have the answers can you mean come back and make it oh well you guys didn't see who was cut but um journey uh

59:28journey was cut Emily was cut Savannah was cut I saw Savannah oh yeah I saw Savannah I think Savannah will come back and make it and make it I hope so I thought she was a cutie even though I got why she was cut she still I just hope she does but she seems like she has the facility to like work on the things that they needed to see because it for me it was more about the style of dance that she presents and not any of the other like she has the it factor you know like hate that but I know what it I know what they mean and I love she has all of that the tall one yeah I love Emily oh she is a delight her technique is bomb mm-hmm and she's like Kelly says she's just cool cool she's just cool you know like I thought they would let her in I thought that I know like I thought she was gonna make it over faith and then that's why I think that's why I spent

1:00:30so much time on the faith and they hear the right reasons because like without knowing this context about faith I was like they love Emily but it's like there was this other thing happening underneath and they made these exceptions like they maybe had that planned already and so anyway I feel like that's like also a part of the conversation about like feedback and being a coach and like the system and like what you want versus what the system is saying and like that that anyway wait a second did you say you already know who makes it because we're like that that process is happening now already for next year yeah yeah like camp for next years over right yeah I already know who makes it see this is why like I was like I'm okay with spoilers because I see so much yeah like I already saw so much before this season started yes one last thing about faith in her social media she gets a little tap on the wrist about her social media and a conversation with Kelly and I went to go look at her social media and it is scrubbed clean it

1:01:33is all DCC whoa DCC they better be paying here so it would be interesting to see what they do with faith in next season now that Reese is gone yeah that part okay they worked hard for that girl all right guys this was lovely three minutes over so I guess I'm not paying for shit next time bye hey bitches that's a wrap on another episode of you can call me Karen if you liked what you heard or didn't go to our show page and leave a review just know we will call you out and if I'm like my two co-hosts you find yourself scrolling endlessly on tiktok follow us at you can call me Karen and if you're still living in the 20th century like a boomer don't worry you can find us on instagram and youtube at you can call me Karen underscore pod we love you for listening