Dave Ramsey: Get Rich and Stay Rich, Financial Decisions That Help You Build Wealth | Finance | E388

I think it's an excellent time to be in business. I'm so excited for a 25-year-old entrepreneur right now.

You're gonna make some mistakes. You're gonna stub your toe. You're still gonna get a bloody nose.

Oh, well, have at it. Do it anyway, man. But this is the best time in your ministry.

Personal finance expert host of the Dave Ramsey show. His name is Dave Ramsey.

Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey. That was gonna be the real estate guy. We had $4 million worth of real estate

and we lost it all. We lost everything. We had bankrupt and we figured out that what we've been

doing obviously didn't work. So we need a new plan. I don't borrow money. Period. 100% of the time

debt equals risk. The argument is especially for high earners is that you can pay off your credit

cards. A lot of people are really interested in points. Why is that still a hard line for you?

There's tons of data, tons of pieces of research out there that show that a credit card versus cash

is 12 to 21% more spending. And if you add to it, I'm getting points. Then I'll even increase my

spending yet more. So you gave up a dollar to get a penny? What do you feel is the biggest money

mistake that younger people do right now? You grew up with this thing in your hand, your entire

life that's a magic wand. You could push a button and anything happens. What that gives you guys

is your abundance thinkers. You think anything's possible because anything has always been possible

and that's the good part. The bad part is...

Yap gang, more income doesn't automatically mean more wealth. In fact, some of the highest earners

are also the most financially stressed. So what's really going on? Well, I got the opportunity to

fly down to Nashville and ask Dave Ramsey in his home studio this very question. In this conversation

today, Dave breaks down why making money and building wealth are two completely different skill sets.

We unpack the behavioral traps that keep high earners stuck and the simple time-tested principles

that create lasting wealth. By the way, Dave first joined us on Episode 344 last year, where we

talked all about how to build and scale a business that lasts. That was an incredible conversation.

If you're an entrepreneur, you need to listen to that one. And we are replaying that conversation

this Friday, so make sure you check it out. And if you're new here, kindly take one second to

follow us on YouTube and your favorite podcast app so you can keep listening, learning, and

profiting. Dave, welcome back to Young & Profiting Podcast. I'm honored to be with you again.

I am so excited for this conversation. I'm so happy that we're getting to meet in person.

I got to spend an hour with you already. Our first interview was amazing. We're going to play it

again on Friday, so everybody gets to your background story, so everybody hears about your latest

book, Build a Business. But today, I really want to focus on money problems for high earners,

because most of my listeners earn over $125,000. They're usually between the ages of 35 and 45.

And so I've got a lot of high achieving people tuning in. And a lot of these people like they know

all the steps and know your baby steps. They've listened to you for years and other financial advisors,

but they still don't change. So why do you think people change even when they know the roles they

have the knowledge? I'm not sure. I mean, I don't know why I still eat too many donuts. It's kind

of the same thing. When I know it's not going to help my figure, but people don't change because

they don't have a real reason to change. They don't think it's worth the effort, it's worth the

sacrifice. It's a pain gain thing. Is there enough gain for the pain if I've got to engage in

this? And so we tend to take the easy button, we tend to go the easy route. I think it's a human

nature. I'm the same way. I do the same thing. If I don't make myself stop and as an intellectual

act of the will say, wait a minute, I need to make better decisions on this particular subject.

So I get a better result. People, you don't normally do that. It's an act of the will.

Yeah. Now, I know that you're really known for hard lines. You take hard stances, you've got hard rules.

Why do you think that you're still absolutist in this way and you're thinking of having these hard

lines? Is it because of the things that have happened to you personally or because of all the collars

that you've heard over the years, thousands of people and just knowing kind of what's best for

people? Yeah. Well, any hard line I take with anyone is because I believe that's what's best for

them. I'm not doing it just to make a stand. I'm saying this is a, you know, if you were my best

friend, if you were my little brother, my little sister, this is what I would tell you to do.

And so that's not ever changed from the day we got on the air. And there are some tactical

things that we don't take hard lines on. But then there's some principles and some processes

that are now proven. And so, you know, I've got eight grandkids. And if one I'm standing on the

edge of the roof, I need to take a hard line because the law of gravity works every time. And it's

going to cause harm to them if they don't get away from the edge of the roof. And I love them and

I don't want to get hurt. So that's a hard line. But, but the law of gravity is a principle we can count

on it. There's a principle that when you give all your money to city bank or you give all your

money to Ford Motor Company, you don't have any money. Yeah. And that's what debt does. It steals

your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. And so that's a principle. And I don't

really need to think about that anymore. And it was certainly influenced. And initially when we

started teaching this stuff almost 40 years ago, and we went broke. Yeah, that influences it.

But these days, it's more influenced by tens of millions of people that have followed

what we asked them to do. And it caused a positive result. Yeah. They've succeeded because of it.

Yeah. So I know that you were on the show before you talked a lot about your financial collapse.

But for those who don't know about what happened to you personally, do you mind just going into

it a little bit and then telling us some of the big lessons that you learned from that period?

Well, I've got a degree in finance and specialization in real estate is going to be the real

state guy. And I started buying real estate and nothing down flipped this house before Chippen

Joanna were born. And so we've been doing this a long time. And I went broke because I was so

highly leveraged. I borrowed so much money in the bank called our notes. We had four million

dollars worth of real estate. And we lost it all starting from nothing. And so it was 28 years old

at the bottom. And brand new baby, a toddler and a marriage hanging on by a thread. And we lost

everything. We're bankrupt. And in the process I had met God on the way up. And I got to know God

on the way down. And someone said, Hey, here's what the Bible says about money. Now that was weird

to me because I was a hell raising beer drinking hillbilly. And what the Bible got to do with the money.

And so I'm looking at these proverbs. And they sounded like my grandmother, like live on less than

you make, you know, and have a plan. And, you know, basic common sense, right? And so I started

living our lives that way. And just because we figured out that what we've been doing obviously

didn't work, right? So we need a new plan. And then we started sharing it with some people. And,

you know, that was 30 years ago. Yeah. And that's how it all started. So like I mentioned,

you're really known for it for these hard lines. And I feel like because we've already, you know,

talked before for an hour, then maybe I can like push you on these hard lines, but tell you what

other people say against them. And you tell me why you feel they're still a hard line. Or if over

the years you've conceded on this hard line. Okay. Okay. So let's start with no credit cards ever.

Now, the argument is, especially for high earners, is that you can pay off your credit cards

right away, pay off the full balance. And a lot of people are really interested in points,

especially Gen Z, millennials for all about our points, getting free travel, free hotel, free flights.

Why is that still a hard line for you? Well, the only reason is just the data doesn't say that it

works. There's two major problems with that. 78% of the airline miles are never redeemed.

Hello. Okay. And the data tells us any of us to do any digital marketing. And I've got a large firm

and a lot of digital marketing. We know that friction decreases spending. If it's harder to

navigate the website to buy, you lose people, they they abandon the cart, right? Yeah. And so you

abandon purchases where there are friction, the less friction there is, the more increase in

spending there is. And there's tons of data, tons of pieces of research out there that show

that a credit card versus cash, nobody cares cash, right? But a credit card versus cash

is 12 to 21% more spending. And if you add to it, oh, I'm getting points. Thank you, Samuel

oil, Jackson, right? And I'm getting points. What's in your wallet? Then I'll even increase my

spending yet more. And so I'll, you know, and there's even examples of that in the commercials.

They're advertising, oh, well, I'll pay for this for you. So I get the points. And you know,

so you gave up a dollar to get a penny. How's that an increased wealth? And then the second piece

of this is, so you do increase spending is the biggest problem because you're, it's a less friction.

And let's go all the way over to like Apple Pay. You don't even see an expenditure. It's just

you wave a wand and stuff happens, right? And so that's the ultimate and psychological lack of

friction. And so you're going to spend more, you're going to spend more, you're going to spend more.

It's easy. Just wave a wand, wave a wand. And I do too. I mean, you know, we were on a cruise

the other day, sharing a night in my wife. And, you know, your room key buys everything on the boat,

right? Because they don't have any transactions, not even your credit card, not even your debit card,

not anything. No cash. And so, you know, I'm just buying stuff. And I'm like, I teach this.

And look at what I'm doing, you know, it's crazy. So anyway, that's the thing one. Then thing two is,

there's no Pete, no credible data that says using points causes wealth.

As a matter of fact, we have studied, we did the largest study of millionaires ever done at Ramsey

Research, 10,000, one hundred sixty-seven of them. And the number of them that said I became a

millionaire because of my points is zero. None. And so it's a game and you're playing with a multi-billion

dollar company who has more algorithms tracking your behavior patterns than you can even imagine.

And believe me, they're not coming out on the short end of this. The consumer is.

Now, what about credit cards for a business for companies? How do you feel about that?

I use debit cards here. We've got about 85 people inside Ramsey that have a Ramsey debit card,

like a company card. And so they spend it and it comes out of the account. And so the debit card does

every single thing the credit card will do. And some debit cards even have points with them now.

Some of them even have airline miles and stuff. But I'm not going to chase pennies with dollars.

It doesn't, the logic of that, you know, I get two percent back. So you spend a hundred thousand

dollars and you got two grand. How does that equate to wealth? It doesn't. It's bad math.

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I interviewed Michael McCallow. It's recently, if you're familiar with him, and he taught me about

something called the Parkinson's Law, which basically, as high owners get more money when they have more

money in their bank account, they just end up spending more because visibly they can see more money.

Do you think it's the same thing with credit cards? Like if you know, you've got a $20,000

limit then suddenly. Yeah, it's out of sight, out of mind. It's the same

Parkinson's Law plus closet space too. In your home, if you have an empty closet, it's going to fill

up. There'll be some junk in there in about 10 months. So your garage does the same thing, right?

So that applies to everything. And there's this sense of that. And the way we've seen it,

like in the old days, when I first started doing this on talk radio back in the day,

we would have someone call in and say, hey, I got a $300 a month raise. How'd you celebrate?

I bought a $400 a month car payment. That's Parkinson's Law too. It's the same thing.

If it's there, I have to spend it, right? And so yeah, I do agree with that. And I think you got

to watch that. And there's an interesting thing with the credit card too that kind of goes with

the same thing. And again, no one spends cash. I actually use cash sometimes. I'm a cash guy.

I'm an old guy, so that's possible. I don't understand everybody's going to do that.

What's interesting is if I'm going to buy something, I hand you money, you keep it,

and I get the item. It's like when you're a little child, you're trading a ways.

It's interesting visual that when you hand someone a card, even if it's a debit card,

they hand the card back. And you get the thing. Isn't that an interesting visual? There's no trade

took place. Yeah, that is really interesting. And it probably makes you feel like you're not really

giving up anything to get it. Exactly. That's a frictionless problem we're talking about.

Yeah. Okay. So another hard line, which is on the same line. So we don't have to spend too much

time on it, but there's no such thing as good debt. So even like mortgages on a house, you

believe there's no such thing as good debt. Eventually. I mean, we don't yell at people for taking out

a mortgage on our programs and in our processes. I don't borrow money. Period. I've never borrowed

any money since I went broke. And I built everything with organic cash along the way.

100%. It means I had to go slower than some people. Not as big as some people, but I'm fine with

that. I'm not going to lose it either. So the thing that we don't equate with debt, hardly anywhere

in our society or in this discussion is 100% of the time debt equals risk. Little debt,

little risk, small interest rate debt, small debt, little risk, big debt, big risk. But people

don't think about it. They only talk about debt as if there's one possible outcome and it's a

positive outcome. And we always laugh and say there's been, we've done detailed research. And

100% of the foreclosures occur on the home of the mortgage. So if you want to destabilize your

retirement, go into retirement with a mortgage. Think about it because you're 80 years old now

and you got a house payment. You're 78 years old. You got a house payment. It's not a plan.

And again, referring back to that millionaire study, we found basically two things that

caused people to get their first one to five million dollars in net worth. It was a well-funded

retirement plan taking advantage of good mutual funds and compound interest. And that'd be seven,

eight hundred thousand bucks maybe after 10 or 12 years of working on it hard. And a paid off

five, six, eight hundred and nine hundred thousand other house. Those two things combined.

The number of them that had paid off houses as a big component of their first million dollars

was huge. There's a correlation between it and wealth building. That makes sense. And to that

point, you don't believe that you should have any debt into retirement. Like once you retire,

you should be totally debt free. It's the best way, obviously, to have a stable situation.

Because the number of times I talked to someone that they've got a mortgage and then they've run

through their nest egg. And now they got a mortgage. And they're trying to figure out how they're

going to support that. And so it's devastating. Yeah. Okay. Good advice. Okay. One more hard line.

Debt snowball over avalanche. So the argument is that avalanche method could actually help you

save more money. Whereas you prefer the snowball method, which pays off the smallest balances first.

Right. The avalanche method pays off the highest interest rate to smallest interest rate,

which is purported to be mathematically advantageous. Then the debt snowball pays off the smallest

debt to the largest debt, which is a feedback loop because that personal finances 80% behavior.

It's only 20% head knowledge. We started the discussion with why don't people do this because they

don't get positive feedback. If you go on, if you go to the gym for three months and you don't lose

weight and your goal was to go to the gym to lose weight, you quit going to the gym. Yeah.

Because you got no feedback loop. Okay. So the positive on the debt snowball is the feedback loop.

I pay off the little ones like, whoa. And then I pay off another one like, whoa. And hope starts to

kick in. And as you get more excited, you'll sacrifice even deeper and the math gets better and

better and better. But here's the big problem with the avalanche and people saying it's mathematically

advantageous. It's actually not because if you're going to do the real math on it below the surface,

you have to say, what's the probability of completion? Probability of completion because of the

feedback loop with a snowball is way higher than the probability of completion on the avalanche.

Most people don't finish it because they don't get positive feedback. And so if you add in

probability of completion, then you got a high probability of completion versus a low one.

You put that in the math, which is an actual proper sophisticated way of looking at the mathematics.

Then you would say, oh, that snowball is actually mathematically advantageous.

Yeah. Well, you must be honest to something because you've helped millions of people at this point

get debt free and become financially free. So I have a theme for this episode. I'm calling it

mo money, mo mo problems. So back to the fact that my listeners are doing really well.

Their high earners, a lot of them are entrepreneurs or earning well over six figures, some of them

a million dollars a year or more. And so I want to go through some financial scenarios that a lot

of high earners might be facing, not just people or I don't think my listeners are in so much debt

and things like that. I think they're just worried about the right moves to do now that they actually

have money. So the first scenario I have is a 35 year old person works in tech. They're making

$300,000 a year. They've got a really high paying executive job. Their lifestyle is built around

their high paycheck, but they see layoffs happening. And they're worried that one day suddenly their

high paying job will just go away. So what do you think their plan should be? How should they

prepare knowing that job security today is an issue? Yeah. Well job security is always an issue.

And you don't want to follow for what we call the myth of continuity. The myth of continuity is

because it's been this way. It's always going to be this way. It's not. It's not always going

to stick to it. It doesn't always. It's going to get it's going to change. It's going to be better

or worse 100% of the time. So I think you need to work a plan that works when times are good

and when times are bad. And that's the advantage of the ludite Ramsey plan. The Ramsey plan

is just so gram all basic. Live on less than you make. Have a written budget. Always be generous.

Always have an emergency fund. Get out of debt and stay out of debt. If you're doing that and you

make 300K and you got an emergency fund, you don't have any payments. You're okay. You're

planning and you're investing for your future and you're generous. You're going to be okay and

you have prepared properly. Oh, by the way, that works. If you don't get laid off too,

you'll still end up with a bunch of money. It works out great. Yeah. How should you suggest

that somebody who makes 300K into your budget, like what should their stuff should be in terms

of creating a sustainable budget? The only budgets that work is the Merry Couple works together and

they both have a vote and they both agree to it and stick to it and you develop the plan before

the month begins and we call it a zero based budget and that's where you take your income before

the month begins and you give every dollar an assignment, every dollar a name down to zero.

Now, we're not talking about your checking account balance. We're talking about your budget.

So if you've got $25,000 coming in a month, $300,000 plus or minus taxes, right? But I mean,

if you got that coming, $20,000 coming in, then we're going to put 20 at the top of the page and

we're going to give every dollar an assignment, every dollar a name. That's where we name

our budgeting app, every dollar. And then we're in agreement and then we stick to that and all

you're doing there is being intentional. A budget, John Maxwell used to say a budget is people

telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And so we run about a $300 million

dollar company here. Every profit center has a budget. Before the month begins, before the quarter

begins, before the year begins, we lay out rolling 12, rolling 18, what we're projecting revenues

to be and where they're going to go and what the resulting profits are. And then we manage to

that budget. We manage to that. And that's what you're doing a household. And so we always say,

you know, if you work for a company called you incorporated and you manage money for you

incorporated the way you manage money for you now, would you fire you? And I would fire somebody

here. If they have a budget, P&L responsibility and they don't do a budget and they don't stick to it.

They just willy-nilly go do whatever they want to do and impulse a Porsche. You know, I mean,

you can't you just can't operate that way and be successful. It's an intent. Winning is an

intentional act and budget is where we become intentional with our money. Yeah. Now, I know a lot

of earners, high earners, you know, as they start to break, you know, $500,000 a year, a million a year,

they might lose sight of like needing a budget. They might feel like, well, it makes so much money,

I don't need a budget anymore. Do you feel like there's any problems with that kind of thinking?

Yeah, because it's just chaotic and wasteful. This one ends up happening. You're not going to go broke

because of it. You know, you're making a million dollars a year and you're spending like a crazy

person. That's fine. You're probably going to be okay until you quit making a million. But the problem

is you just didn't get the best squeeze for the juice, right? I mean, you didn't get the best,

you know, I don't want to have I don't want to make that kind of money and look up 10 years later

and have nothing to show for it. That would be like having a hangover. Yeah. It would be awful.

And so I want you to win. I want you to get the most out of this as possible. All a budget is,

again, is a spending plan. It's not meant to be restrictive. It's just you're telling your money

what to do and then you stick to what you want to do. It's your deal. You decide. And the same

thing is to run a company. And so, you know, if we were running instead of a $300 million

company, if we were running a $3 billion company, we wouldn't say, oh, we don't need to do budgets now.

Yeah. Okay. So let's take the scenario of somebody's been making a lot of money in their 30s.

They haven't been saving that much. They haven't thought about retirement. They hit 40 and they

realized they only have a couple hundred grand for retirement saved, even though they've been

making a whole bunch of money in their 30s. What should they do next? Well, obviously you got to

play some catch up and there's some urgency, but not panic. I love urgency because it gets people

moving. It gets me to change. I like urgency in my own life. I think it's a good thing. So, you know,

let's just again, I, the framework we always use and you're aware, this is the baby steps. And so

we're going to make sure you're out of debt, have an emergency fund. Once you've done all that,

then let's start stocking some money. Let's start putting 15% of your income away. If you're 40 years

old, you make an average income and you start putting 15% of your income away plus or minus a

match in a good Roth IRA and good mutual funds that give you market rates of return. You're going to

be a multi-millionaire easily in 25 years and mathematically. And so, but you've got to do it. You can

just talk about it. It's not theory. The number one problem with retirement planning and retirement

investing is not what people put money in. It's that they don't put money in. You've got to put

money in there for there to be some money in there. It's a pretty simple math thing. And so,

that's what you've got to gear up here. It's just get some urgency and start, we just start

stocking some money away. We've got to get this 401k jacked up and we got to learn a little bit

about this and have some motivation and quit, you know, quit spending like we're in Congress.

Yeah. Okay. Last one is about taxes. So, somebody owns a business. They're making, you know, let's

say, $5 million a year and they've become obsessed with saving on taxes. They're like me. They

move to Austin to try to save on taxes and so much of their decision-making energy around their

business is saving on taxes. What's your thoughts about that? You have to in business make

first good business and economic decisions. While you're doing that, if you can do that in such a

way that it saves on taxes, fine. But if you do something to save on taxes and when people get

obsessed with it, this is what we do. I've done it too in the past, not in a long, long time,

but I used to do it. If you get obsessed with, I hate taxes so bad that I'm going to do this to

save on taxes, but it's stupid. It's bad business. It's a bad financial decision. But, you know,

and so I won here, but I lost 10 over here and that's a bad idea. An example of that is the simple

buying something that is not needed because you can ride it off. Well, I mean, if you spend

$100,000 on an item that is that is expensive in that calendar year, depending on the category of

the item, but let's call it expensive. And you're in a 25% tax bracket. You save $25,000 in taxes.

You don't save $100,000. But you bought $100,000 worth of stuff you didn't need.

So you gave up $100,000 to save $25,000 because of your obsession with taxes. I mean,

your accountant said something stupid like you need to ride off. But you don't need to ride off

that bad to trade a dollar for a quarter. That's dumb. And that's a very simplistic

way of that motivation of tax savings getting out of hand. And I've seen a lot of small business

people do that. Oh, I bought this because of my account and so I need to ride off. And no, not

if you don't need it. All expenses coming off the bottom line of it or coming out of the PNL

of a business should be looked at through the lens of I need a return on that investment. Oh,

and I can ride it off. Yeah. Not zero return on investment, but I get to ride it off. That's a

dollar for a quarter. Don't make that trade. Yeah. I find myself, you know, thinking about taxes

making these decisions all the time. I hate them. I get I get really angry at that time of

year. It's really hard for me. I hate it. But I still I have never been able to wait, you know,

this idea. It always makes me angry too when people say, Oh, the rich pay no taxes. I don't

I'm pretty rich and I don't I pay a lot. I don't know what those people are. I don't I haven't

been able to get out of it. So we're very diligent and very careful. We try to learn any techniques

we can, but it has to first be economically give me a rate of return on the investment

from a business expense perspective. Then it's a good tax move. Not it's a good tax move and

it sucks over here. Yeah. Makes sense. So I feel like that was super helpful for everybody who's

a high earner or has a business. Now, I also have listeners who are, you know, wanting to be

high earners. They're Gen Z. They might be taking their first job. They're in college. What do you

feel is the biggest money mistake that younger people do right now? Well, the Gen Z and millennials,

we've got 1000 folks on our team and probably 700 of them following that category. And so I have

become a huge fan of those two generations. And part of it is from a business perspective and

from a career and earning perspective. So here's what you've got at your advantage. If you're a

Gen Z or a millennial, you grew up with this thing in your hand, your entire life that's a magic

wand. You could push a button and anything happens. Stuff shows up on your porch. You can

access the world's knowledge. You can do anything with it. Find out what the weather is,

dodge a tornado, whatever it is, right? It's at all right there in your hand. And so because of

that, that's not native to my generation. That's native to your generation. And what that gives you

guys is your abundance thinkers. You think anything's possible because anything has always been

possible. I just wave this wand and stuff happens. It's amazing. And you really, gosh, and that's

the good part. The bad part is sometimes what goes with that and to answer your question long

form is impatience. I want it right now because I've always gotten it right now. And you don't get

good barbecue out of the microwave. Good barbecue has to be cooked a long time like all weekend.

I mean, you're in Austin, Texas. Good barbecue, right? There's no such thing as microwave

barbecue. That's good. That's not a sentence anywhere. And so look at your career like barbecue.

You got to cook it. It's going to take a while. It's not going to be instant. It's going to be

sometimes frustratingly slow. And especially if you're used to not things being slow.

And so just guard against that. And that's normal in maturity, whether you're 55 or 25,

the ability to delay pleasure for a greater good. But it's amplified, in this case, and it's not

immaturity, but it's amplified by this fact that your reality has been things are quick. Yeah.

And quote, unquote, easy button. And you know, building a good career, building a brand, a

depth of knowledge. And you've been at this seven years. Yeah. And you're kicking it girl. I mean,

you're so proud of you. You've done such a great job. And everybody knows who you are. It's like,

you know, you're blowing up. But seven years, not seven minutes. Yeah. And you show up all the time.

And you're sharp and you're on it day after day, time after time. And every time we turn it on,

we get the same girl, right? Same lady. And so that that's why you're winning. It's this

persistence over time. Yeah. Now you mentioned that you have eight grandkids.

Are you worried about AI and technology? And do you worry about their careers and their ability

to get that experience given that AI? I think AI is fabulous. AI's, I wasn't worried about

the internet when it came on too. I started before the internet, right? So I wasn't worried about

that. I wasn't worried about when cable TV came on. It didn't bother me. Every one of these things

represent opportunity. They represent there's going to be more AI and millionaires in Gen Z and

more AI millionaires out of millennials than any group of millionaires we've ever seen. Because

they're going to take it as a tool and learn how to use it. It works for you. You don't work for it.

Period. If you just look at it as a tool, you know, it's like, you know, I'm not worried that they

in that Henry Ford started making cars. And so we don't have to ride in a horse and buggy.

No, it means I can get to someplace faster. I can deliver my goods and services faster. It's

called a business opportunity. Man, let's get with it. Yeah. This is efficient delivery mechanisms,

right? And efficient work mechanisms. Now, if you're doing something that AI does now,

you may need to do something different and make it work for you instead of it replacing

your job. But hey, welcome to the world. I mean, if you used to make whips for horses and

bridles for horses, you had to get a new job because Henry Ford put you out of business, you know.

And so yeah, that's that's cool. But yeah, AI is wonderful. The thing I do worry about with my

grandkids is the access to evil that the phone and that the AI, it gives a gateway into

children's lives of evil that shouldn't be there. Tell me more about that. Well, we end up with

stuff like sex trafficking. Yeah. And we end up with people being groomed and we end up with

12-year-olds bullying each other. And the misuse of these wonderful technologies, the evil

misuse. And some of it's just so horrendous. And so we have to teach our kids to not get addicted

to screens and to not think that everything on there is what it says it is because most of it

isn't. Most of it's a lie, including your Instagram reel because your life's not really that

pretty. None of it is, right? And so that's, you know, I see me in the morning, right? My hair

doesn't look this good. And so, you know, that whole thing, right? So we have to teach the kids that,

you know, what's real and what's what's artificial intelligence, artificial sweetener is different

than sweetener. You know, what, you know, so we have to teach some good spiritual and philosophical

foundations for those kids to not become victims of this. And I do worry about that with the

little ones in particular, because there's some real nasty stuff out there. Yeah.

Well, hopefully it all works out. And, you know, kids get educated on how to tell what's AI versus

what I'm sure that will be like part of school moving forward because it's going to be such a big

part of us. I think you guys will catch on faster. It's my generation. I had a thing pop up on AI

on me the other day. And then it's a fraudulent thing. Me saying something I don't say, you know,

if you actually like a video of you, it's a video of me and it's not even really good.

It looks like a kung fu movie that I can measure, right? The words don't match, but it went

everywhere in like my 65 year old friends or email my wife going, what did Dave say that on

Facebook for? And Dave didn't say that, you know, they're more susceptible and naive. I think

for your generation, your generation is naturally cynical for good reason about you're like, is

that real? Immediately. First thing goes into your mind, which is awesome. So I think you're

protected that way. Yeah. Yeah, fam. Today's episode is sponsored by Bit Defender, a global leader

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all bills or subscriptions are eligible. Savings not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected

account required. See experience.com for details. Would you give us the lay of the land of Ramsey

solutions? Like what are the different revenue generators? Where are you guys making the most

money right now with all your products and offers? A consumer facing the fastest growing thing is

every dollar app. It's exploding and we've spent an amazing amount of money, time, effort, intellectual

calories on it, iterating it and building it and iterating. We do every day. We're going to

every day making it better and it's going nuts. The broadcast properties is what we call them but

they're not really broadcast is we still have a talk radio show that is also on YouTube and

also on podcasts. The mothership so to speak, the Ramsey show. Those things through

all the different platforms were able to monetize with ad revenues. It's pretty substantial

and that revenue is moved. We still have a lot of talk radio revenue. There's still people

listening to talk radio. I don't know where they are but they're out there. That revenue is

still very real and we've still got one of the largest talk radio networks. That stream is still

there. I don't know how long it's going to be there. I don't think it's 10 years. I'll be

it look the same but the Spotify's and YouTube's of the world have had a huge impact. We're on

everything and we're monetizing it with ads and with product delivery mentions integrated into

show notes and integrated into the show bodies and so forth. We have a high school curriculum

that has been taught now in 48% of the high school 7 million students have been through it.

It's continuing to grow. There's a real move in that world to adopt the adoption process to

adopt curriculum in high schools has been mandated by the states and 38 states to teach personal

finance and we're the premier curriculum in that the best by far and so that's continuing to grow

thank goodness and that's because that's a great thing if you can get this stuff in high school.

Obviously we've got the publishing arm. We still putting out number one by selling books

every year and have for decades. It's not a huge percentage of our revenue but it's still a great

brand mix and a great tip of the spear so to speak. As we go for we've got a I think a smart

dollar that is our corporate HR benefit to teach our lessons. It's like the old financial

university but taught in corporate America and so like you hall has done it Costco is doing it

companies like that and a lot of small and medium-sized companies are buying that and that's a massive

thing. It's very real quiet but it's because it's B2B so the consumer doesn't really see it that much

but it's really massive and really moving and then our hauntry leadership brand has exploded. It's

gone crazy where we coach about 10,000 small businesses on how to run a business and it came out

the old book I did about 15 years ago called Entry Leadership. How we ran our business and we start

teaching other people how to do it and so that's I love entrepreneurs and I love small business

people because I've been one my whole life. Now I learned I was listening to some of your

interviews that you've done recently and I heard you say that the radio show lost money for like 10

years or something like that. It was like not making money for for many years. So how do you think

of certain aspects of your business that actually don't make money and can you talk about some

of the biggest lead generators that might not really make money but are still important to your

business? Well that's exactly what was a lead generator and so we didn't look at it as we did

look at it as a P&L that was losing money because I wanted to fight through and actually get some

ads sold so to cover the cost to run a distinct thing but it took forever. But the reason we kept

doing it and then close it if we had another business unit that was doing that we might close it

but it was generating all the leads. We were generating best selling books because of the show. We

were generating arenas full of people because of the show. We were generating all these other things

because of the show because talk radio in those days was in it. It was like a podcast today

like one of the top podcasts we were on the top talk radio shows. So that's why we kept it going.

Now we've had other areas where we lost money but it wasn't generating any. It wasn't causing any

and so we just closed those. That's an failed experiment. Welcome to business.

Yeah and so I know that you have a podcast network. You've got the Ramsey network. I'm not sure

if you know this about me. I have a podcast network as well. I have the yet media network

as 45 shows. So I wrote some people like Jenna Kutcher and Russell Brunson and Trent Shelton

and I've had Amy Portafield and Laurie Harder and all these really big business self-improvement

podcasters in my network. I grow and monetize them. So Ramsey Network is an amazing network and you've

got awesome personalities. I've interviewed a lot of people that have shows under your network.

How do you think about talent? How did you start deciding that you wanted to have a network? In my

mind having a network is sort of the pinnacle of creator entrepreneurship. You're not just a creator

entrepreneur now. You monetize other creators. It's kind of the top of the mountain. So to speak.

So why did you decide to start a network and how did you first start picking your talent?

Really good way of saying that. I hadn't actually looked at it that way. That's really smart.

The reason we did it was because we started studying 18 years ago. Yeah, I'm 65. So 18 years

ago we started studying succession planning and on family businesses. So we figured out,

okay, you got to train the next generation gen two of owners. You've got to have a stable

full of excellent leaders to be able to when I'm not here to run the business and so forth.

The thing we couldn't figure out and we couldn't find any best practices on was how to have this

place survive when I die if I'm the only talent and if I'm the only owner or persona, right?

Because Paul Harvey Jr. usually doesn't make it and good guy, but he didn't make it. He wasn't

his dad. Sometimes that happens with a pastor when they pass away. If their son or daughter tries

to take the church, it doesn't work or sometimes it happens with a small business. So we started

studying and we figured out Rachel. My daughter got a huge social footprint and does extremely well.

Was really blowing up at that time starting and we said, well, I hate to put the whole

place on her shoulders. It's not very well diversified. It's also emotionally crushing

to carry the whole weight of everything your dad built. And then if you stumble,

oh, it's double hard, right? So I wouldn't do that to my own daughter. And so we started coming up

with this idea of one to many rather than one to one hand off. And so it was a succession plan

to hand to brand hand off. But we started studying, okay, what percentage of a revenue comes from

me running my mouth? And in those days, it was 98%. And we said, well, what happens if I die?

That means this whole place folds up. Bad idea for all the people to work here. And bad idea for

we have worked 25 years to build something and it just dies when you do. So we said, all right,

let's start building that. Today, we've actually transitioned finally to where it's about 96%

of the revenue would survive if I'm not here. Oh, wow. And so hopefully people would be sad,

but revenue wise, they're okay. Yeah. Do you suggest that every business have some sort of show

or or way to get get an audience in that in in the way that you guys do at Ramsey? No, um,

you know, you need to think about how you can interact with the public, but not, you know, like

for instance, in an entree leadership, we've got a bazillion heating and air companies. Yeah,

what are they going to do? They're going to eat an air company doesn't need a show. That's true.

He might, but he might not or she might not. Okay, every dentist doesn't need a show.

But do they need some kind of interface with technology and with these platforms? Yeah,

yeah, some Instagram and you know, whatever the platform is appropriate to where their

audience is to where their customer base is, they need to be there. And so, but when Twitter got

hot a thousand years ago, when it was a big deal and first started, there was a whole period of

time people ran around saying, everyone needs a Twitter account. And everybody doesn't need a

Twitter account. Yeah, they don't they and not for sure today they don't, but everybody doesn't

need an Instagram account. Everybody doesn't need a podcast, but you know, you need to think about

is there a place for this? And do I have something to say that somebody actually wants to hear?

Can I provide a service? Can I give information that's helpful? And um, but Instagram readers

don't do that. You don't have to go all the way into the podcast world to do it. Yeah. And

sometimes it could be real life having billboards or something like that. Exactly. You go back to

old school analog stuff, yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So you mentioned that you were really excited about

this app. It's called the is it called the everyday app? Every dollar. Every dollar. Every dollar

has a name. Yeah. And is it a subscription model? Yes. Talk to us about why that excites you so

much and why you focus so much on that in your business? Well, in this case, um, from a revenue

perspective, it's wonderful because the subscription model is obviously a recurring revenue.

I don't have to go leave the cave, kill something and drag it home every morning.

It's already coming in. It's what we used to call in the old days mailbox money, right?

And so it's a beautiful thing about having some best selling books. I still get royalty checks

literally in the mailbox. And from books I did 20 years ago, because they're still out there

selling at some level. So that's mailbox money in that sense. And so subscription is recurring

revenue. That's a wonderful thing. The thing though, in the digital setting, like a app or something

like that, that subscription is, um, it forces me as the owner and my team to be of service

every stinking day. Otherwise, you get the churn dragon and they leave and they'll stay because

they didn't get helped. And so if I can be of service to you every day and be a little bit better

tomorrow than I was today and a whole lot better this time next year than I was today.

Then you're going to stick with it. And so it challenges me to love my customer better

and to add value to their life better because the net business result is they stick around.

Yeah. And one of the things we have around here is if you help enough people, you don't have to worry

about money. And so if you keep your app iterating, you keep your digital offering growing and

getting better and changing with the market because 100% of the time tomorrow's different than

today, always getting better, always getting better, always serving more, always helping more

helpful than you are. People will stay with you. And then you have this wonderful thing called

recurring revenue. And if you don't meet that challenge, your subscription model will fold up

like Wal-Martin. You'll crash because you'll become so stinking irrelevant in 20 seconds.

And the other good news is that you can fix it quickly. You can change it quick. Easy.

I print a book. It's analog. I can't fix it. There's a mistype in the thing. I can't fix it.

I find it four years later. I can't fix it. I can't remember what I'm going to recall all the books

because of one misspelled word. No. But I can jump on this thinking app or a website or whatever,

a digital product. And we can iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate and get better and test and test

and test and work and help you and let you yell at us and let you smile at us. And man, we have

all this wonderful interaction with our customer. Yeah. Trust is so important, especially with

a subscription model. A lot of the people tuning in here are creator entrepreneurs and their whole

business is basically trust in people buying their courses or their mastermind subscriptions.

What are your thoughts about building trust with your audience? Like what are the key things

that we need to do? Well, I mean, I think of it as just a relationship and how do you build trust

in a relationship? What does it mean to be trust worthy as a dad or a husband or a mom? What does it

mean to be worthy of trust? Well, one thing comes to mind immediately is obviously telling the truth

being authentic is another thing. That's a form of truth. Another thing is incredible consistency.

You know, earlier you were challenging me on some of the things that are said about me negative

all over the place about. He's a hard line on this. He never changes. He never changes.

And for that reason, I'm very trustworthy. You may or may not agree with Ramsey, but you 100%

know we're going to say it again exactly the way we said it before because we really do believe it

and we really do believe it's best. And so it's a trust worthy source because you can count on it.

It's solid. We know what's going to happen. It's repeatable. And so if you think about someone

you hire that's on your team and you can trust them, well, they've proven their competence,

they've proven their integrity, and it's all repeatable. Yeah.

Okay. So I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests. Okay.

The first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become more

profitable tomorrow? Quit trying to figure out how to make money before you figure out how to

help someone. Figure out how to help them first. Then figure out how to make money on it.

And what would you say your secret to profiting in life is this can go beyond finance?

Open hand generosity. Again, if you can take other people's best interest ahead of your own,

God will take care of you. It works out. And it has for 40 years. I prospered beyond my

wildest imagination when I quit trying to take care of Dave first. Instead, I said, I'm going to love

that person well. I'm going to love that person well. Somebody's not going to like it. Somebody's

not going to understand it, but I don't care. I'm going to do what I think I would do for my

little sister, my little brother, my mother, my dad. I'm going to treat them like I would treat family.

And I'm going to do the right thing. And then I'm going to try to figure out how to be wise about

where I can actually stay open. And that's worked out really well. Yeah. Any other last words for

the entrepreneurs tuning in right now? Yeah, I think it's an excellent time to be in business.

Probably the best time in human history right now. I think if I am so excited for a 25-year-old

entrepreneur right now, you're going to make some mistakes. You're going to stub your toe.

You're still going to get a bloody nose. Oh, well, have at it. Do it anyway, man. But this is the

best time in human history. You can get a product design idea to market so fast right now. You can

serve people so quickly and so easily right now. If you ever were going to be an entrepreneur,

anytime since the sun came up the first time, this is the time right now.

We're going to really learn more about you and everything that you do. All Ramsay Solutions.com,

yeah, it's all there. Amazing. Well, for all those links in the show notes,

David is always such a pleasure to talk to you. I had so much fun today. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, fam. I have to say it was super inspiring to sit down with Dave Ramsey face-to-face. Now,

Dave is somebody who's in my world. So he owns a media company. He's got over a thousand employees,

and he's got a huge office in studios in Nashville. And this was one of the most inspiring

moments for me as a podcaster just flying out to Nashville, interviewing Dave Ramsey in the flesh,

going to see his amazing studios and offices and everything that he's built. His company

makes $300 million a year, and it's just so inspiring. And so I want to go over some of the top

things that I learned with him on that day. And here are the three things that I want you to remember

from this conversation. Number one is adding friction to your spending. Dave broke down how easy

swipe spending fuels lifestyle creep, especially for high earners, and why chasing points can

distract you from the real goal. Make spending harder on purpose, that means removing saved cards,

stopping the mindless swipes, and forcing every purchase to be more intentional.

Second, treat debt like risk, not like a math game. Dave's message was simple.

Debt always increases your exposure. Bigger payments mean less breathing room,

less peace, and fewer options when life hits. Entrepreneurs need optionality and optionality comes

from fewer obligations. Third, build a plan that you will finish. Dave explained why the method

that gets completed beats the optimal method that gets abandoned. That means a clear budget,

quick wins, and automatic habits like consistently investing and staying focused on progress

over perfection. So my challenge to you is to make a move today. Add friction, cut a payment,

assign every dollar, a job. Small, disciplined choices compound into freedom.

Alright, Yap Gang, if you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, share it with a friend who needs

a money reset. Now, Yap Fam, if you prefer to watch your podcasts on videos, I'm doing a

lot more in-person content this year, so this episode with Dave is uploaded to our YouTube

channel. I highly recommend if you want to level up your finances to rewatch this,

and actually watch the video because I think there's something special about watching a real-life

conversation. So if you like to watch your videos, check out YouTube. You can also find me on LinkedIn,

just search my name. It's Hala Taha, or Instagram at Yap With Hala. And I love interacting with you

all, so make sure you DM me. Let me know what you think about the show. Let me know any feedback

that you have. Until next time, this is your host, Hala Taha, aka the podcast princess,

signing off, signing off, signing off, signing off, signing off, signing off, signing off, signing off,