David Ignatius: Trump doesn’t have anybody he can settle this war with yet

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Anyway, you bank.

On Iran, you called it an excursion.

You said it would be over soon.

Are you thinking this week it will be over?

No, I think so.

I think so.

Okay, and with respect.

Very soon.

Look, everything they have is gone, including their leadership.

In fact, they have two levels of leadership, and even actually, as it turns out, more than

that.

But two levels of leadership are gone.

Some people have never even heard about the leaders that they're talking about.

So, it's obviously been very, very powerful, very effective.

That was presidential.

Yesterday.

Hello, Joe.

We're telling reporters the war with Iran could end soon while touting the success of the

U.S. military.

But during that news conference, he gave conflicting statements about the future of the conflict

that do not align with messaging from his administration.

That's just one of the several angles we'll following this morning, including new reporting

that the president would support the killing of Iran's new leader.

If he doesn't agree to the administration's demands, plus the dramatic impact on the global

economy with oil prices spiking at one point yesterday to the highest level in four years.

And the growing questions, Joe, about the deadly strike on an elementary school in Iran.

Your thoughts?

Well, I mean, you know, we're different from other countries, we're supposed to be different

from other countries.

When we make horrible mistakes in warfare, we admit it.

We need to admit it.

And this is a situation where it certainly looks like all the evidence suggests that it was

an American Tomahawk missile.

Iranians don't have it as far as I'm experiencing I've ever read.

And so, yeah, we were aiming at a naval base.

There was tragically a school nearby there and that missile got guided in and the intel

must have had that as one of the four buildings on the naval base area.

So again, it seems really obvious that that was a terrible, terrible, tragic mistake.

And we are Americans.

We need to admit those terrible, terrible mistakes.

Being a confusion yesterday, you know, Willie, everybody's so confused by what Donald

Trump's saying.

Oh, one second, he's saying we're staying there for the long run, you know, he's not going

to telegraph exactly what he does.

I'm still stuck on what he said to me a couple of Fridays ago, which was it's going to

be a really interesting two weeks.

And he said that repeatedly on the Friday before those strikes.

Now, I'm not really great in math, but that time frame that he talked about repeatedly

to me on the phone would end this Friday.

I don't think it's going to be that neat.

But at the same time, if Donald Trump is saying everything under the sun to either confuse

the Iranians or to confuse his political adversaries, that's not much of a surprise.

That said, it's interesting yesterday.

He says, well, there's going to be pretty sure.

He tells CBS News.

We're going to shorten it up.

And that's when the markets were collapsing.

Oil was over a hundred and it's almost like he was going downhill too fast.

The markets were going and he just pumped on the brakes.

Oh, no, no, we're going to end this soon.

What did the markets do?

They immediately reversed.

And in fact, I was out at a ballgame and I looked at the stocks and saw everything turned

in.

We call Jesse Rodriguez.

I go, Jesse, what just happened?

You guys, what do you mean?

I got the markets.

I oil went from being 10% up to 5% down.

I said, oh, Donald Trump just told CBS was going to be a shorter war.

And then he went and told the Republicans something else and then he told the Republicans

something.

You know, I think right now it's pumping the brakes yesterday when oil was exploding

and trying to send the message that this war is not going to drag on and on, even if

in the next breath he's saying this war is going to drag on and on.

Well, yeah.

And the messaging is conflicting not just within the president's own message, but within

the administration because he had president from saying that the war is, quote, very complete

yesterday and then backpedaling on that a little bit.

And then you had the Department of Fed saying we have only just begun to fight putting out

a statement saying that the war effectively has only just begun.

These use that two week formulation many times over the course of his two administrations

of about two weeks.

It'll be done in about two weeks.

You've heard that in healthcare and all kinds of different things.

So we always take that with a grain of salt.

But yeah, the messaging has changed.

The messaging changes sometimes within the same thought from the president about when this

war will end and the progress that the United States is making.

You had Secretary of State Mark Rubio talking about the rationale for the war yesterday

saying this was about taking out their missile capabilities.

No mention of the nuclear program or regime change, which we haven't seen yet as the Supreme

Leader's own son now is in power.

So I think it just leads to in the American public, the markets and other places a sense

of confusion about number one, what the aims of this war are.

And number two, just how long it might last as you say he's not going to telegraph that

for strategic reasons.

But it does seem that he gives a different answer on Amica every time he speaks.

Absolutely.

He really does.

I will say though that usually when you look at the costs of war, you look at how much

a war is costing every day.

And of course, because we're $39 trillion in debt and nobody in Washington seems to give

it down.

Nobody's going to be paying attention to how much this is costing the American taxpayers

every day.

But the one thing that they are going to see gas prices exploding, there were a couple

of gas stations around here where gas was getting close to $4, a gallon, that when you

look at all the other pressures this economy is facing, that's something that, you know,

having gas, if this war continues another week, gas prices around America are going to

be over $4 a gallon most likely.

That's just something with oil over $100 a barrel if the war continues and the straits

remain closed.

That's just something that Americans consumers are not going to take.

And so there's also that clock ticking that may not have been ticking in past conflicts

and past wars.

But I will tell you, at this stage, all evidence suggests that Donald Trump is trying to

leverage for the best deal, the best exit.

Three months from now, I think much more likely to be sooner rather than later.

Even if the Defense Department's quoting Karen and Richard Carpenter, we've only just

begun.

I'm curious whether they're going to have a video out with that.

I doubt it.

No, probably not.

So here are the latest developments with the war in Iran now in day 11.

Overnight, Iranian drones were shot down over the oil-rich eastern region of Saudi Arabia.

While Kuwait also shot some drones in its northern and southern areas.

This comes as Pakistani warships have begun escorting its country's merchant ships to

the Middle East to ensure energy supplies were not interrupted.

Meanwhile, in Iran, thousands poured into the streets to celebrate the selection of the

country's new Supreme Leader.

While Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned that Israel's military offensive against

Iran was not done yet, this comes as Iran's foreign minister said his country was prepared

to continue attacks for as long as necessary and ruled out talks.

After President Trump said, the war would be over very soon.

Meanwhile, as we've discussed the President and members of his administration are making

conflicting comments about the timeline of the war, Willie mentioned the Department

of Defense, social media posts yesterday, reading, we have only just begun to fight.

A few hours later, during a news conference in Florida, President Trump was asked about

the discrepancy between some of Trump's comments and the messaging from the Pentagon.

Mr. President, you've said the war is, quote, very complete, but your defense secretary says

this is just the beginning, so which is it, and how long should Americans be doing?

I think you could say it both.

The beginning, it's the beginning of building a new country, but they certainly, they have

no navy, they have no Air Force, they have no anti-aircraft equipment, it's all been

blown up, they have no radar, they have no telecommunications, and they have no leadership.

It's all gone.

So you know, you could look at that statement, we could call it a tremendous success right

now as we leave here, I could call it, or we could go further, and we're going to go further.

But the big risk on that war has been over for three days.

We could go further, but here are all the things that we've accomplished.

That's what the President leads with it's something, obviously, that he wants the American

people to hear if he does decide to bring the troops home in the coming days or weeks.

That's bringing around countless and associate editors at the Washington Post, David Ignatius,

and also decorated combat veteran, former commander of the U.S., Army Europe, retired

Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling, he's the author of a new book, and it is out today

and you have to buy it.

I hear it helps your backswing, reverses Mill, Mill patterned balls.

It helps you lift weights like 25%.

It's called, if I don't return, a father's wartime journal, and General, we can't wait

to get into that and talk to you about it.

We thank you for being here on this busy day for you to help us understand what's going

on with Iran.

David Ignatius, let's start with you.

You know, people have tried to sort through what Donald Trump is going to say, whether

it was the first attack on Iran, I guess about six months ago, Venezuela, the attack a

couple of Fridays ago, when people said, oh, he can't attack tonight because if he attacks

tonight, it'll make us look bad because they've got to get the response back to Geneva

during the middle of negotiations.

Well, he used that to get the Iranians off guard.

I'm wondering what you're reporting showing you, what suggestion, where this is sort of

criminal analogy right now, except it's just Donald Trump we're trying to figure out

because nobody else matters.

He saw it as that and the White House.

I'm curious what your latest reporting is on his thinking.

So Joe, with this series of mixed messages and often contradictory statements, it's almost

like what President Trump calls the weave in his speaking style, kind of meandering back

and forth.

But there are several clear themes that you can distinguish yesterday, and I just want

to briefly note them.

First, the president does feel that he's going to be able to end the attacks on military

targets soon.

He had a lot of statistics, 90% of the missile launchers have been destroyed.

So-and-so number of Navy ships have been destroyed.

He went through his list.

He talked at one point about needing maybe another week, but he sees the end of the conflict

coming.

The second is that he's really worried about the straight-of-war moose.

His strongest language all through the day yesterday was about what he would do if the

Iranians continued to block transit in the straight-of-war moose.

He's worried because the effects on the global economy are really significant.

The spike in prices for oil and natural gas, the effects on fertilizer markets, just

to hold a series of economic effects, are troubling the financial markets.

He knows he's got to get that straight-of-war moose.

He's offered to escort ships through the strait, but he's really saying the Iranians,

if you interfere with this, all hell will break loose.

David, do you have any suggestion at all?

Do you have any evidence at all that there are talks quietly behind the scenes between

the Trump administration and any representative of the Iranian government to say, we're going

to finish our work here this week.

We're going to pick up and leave, but you all have to guarantee that the straits are open.

Any evidence that those socks are going on?

I have no evidence that actual contacts are taking place, but there's signaling through

the media.

I had a piece that I mentioned yesterday morning in which I quoted a senior Israeli official

who laid out their case, this is the case of the defense establishment, that they're

close to achieving their basic military goals, that there are other political goals that

are complicated.

You heard some of that same messaging from Washington.

You have various intermediaries.

President Trump spoke with President Vladimir Putin of Russia, obviously they talked about

ways to end the war.

President Macron France has reached out to China for the same reason, but that gets

me to the last point I wanted to make about the themes to see in yesterday's jumble.

President Trump doesn't have anybody with whom he can settle this war yet.

That's really the problem that was created by the selection of Mustafa Khameh, the son

of the former supreme leader, as the new leader of Iran.

This is a person who's lost his father, his wife, his son.

This is a person who's not going to be eager to make a deal with the United States.

If anything, he harder to line than what came before.

That's the dilemma.

At the final point, one source of mine who's been in one of the Gulf states said that the

leaders of that country with whom he's been talking do not want President Trump to leave

a wounded, angry animal across the Gulf that's going to come back and bite them.

I think there is this fear still that having started the war, Trump has to finish it and

find someone with whom he can make a deal that will work.

That person doesn't exist yet.

So general, as you understand it, we talked about finishing the war in a couple of weeks

perhaps, what does it mean to finish this war?

What are the objectives?

As Secretary Rubio said yesterday, take out the missile capability of Iran, the missiles

themselves, the launchers, the factories that make them the Navy, so they made a lot of

progress in that regard.

At the beginning of this war, we heard about the nuclear program.

We also heard about regime change.

What do you believe the objectives of this war actually are and what it would look like

to end it?

I don't know.

Well, that's the problem.

I mean, listening to all of you talk about this this morning, the thing that's haunting

me is this guy clause, which once said that war politics is war by other, war is politics

by other means.

So we've about to conclude the controlled chaos part of this.

If the president says, stop the bombing and listening to what David was just saying

that we have no one to talk with or no one to talk for us.

It isn't going to be the president because he's already broken several promises with the

Iranian government when he tore up the first JCPOA a couple of years ago and now when he's

attacking them when they were at the negotiating table.

So those are the kind of things that I'm concerned about.

The military has done an excellent job, as everyone has said.

They've been striking the targets.

They've been doing what we call commanders intent, destroy the kinds of things that the

president wants them to destroy.

But it always comes back to you.

What's next?

Now, as a soldier, I'm saying, okay, they've done the job.

Where are the politicians?

Where are the diplomats?

Where are the information people to lead this on?

The profession of arms is an art, but there's also science to it.

There's always a formula that someone once told me, power equals resources times will.

The Iranian people seem to have the will, even though their resources are being depleted.

We don't have as much of the will from the American people, from an understanding within

the government to continue this to draw it to a conclusion.

That's what I'm concerned about.

We didn't have a mission set or an end state in the beginning.

We still don't.

The polls show most Americans echo what you're saying.

We don't understand why we're doing this.

Right.

We understand that Iran has been in evil in many ways for the last 50 years.

We don't understand our personal interest in it.

So as we talk about potential regime change, we now have the Supreme Leader, his son

in charge.

Israel has suggested that he is now a target.

We've heard the same from this administration.

Talking to people though in the military world and the intel committee, they say, this

is just, you kill this guy, then another one comes up.

It's all of the same ilk, these are the kind of people who are going to lead the country.

You can't say, we killed one guy, now young people on the streets go take over your country.

It's just not that simple.

Yeah, one of the things I learned from the amount of time I've spent in the Middle East

is personalities don't matter that much.

Institutions do.

Showing that film just a minute ago of the people on the streets of Tehran proclaiming

the new Ayatollah is fascinating to me because it's a continuation of the institutions.

And they still have parts of their military left and that will rebuild itself.

So yeah, we haven't had regime change, Willie.

What we've had is continuous regime decapitation.

And if you're focused on institutions as opposed to personalities, there will be a new leader

tomorrow and it'll continue.

And there's 92 million people in that country.

So who's going to be the next Ayatollah or the next supreme leader?

A lot of open questions.

Everybody stay in place.

Our coverage will continue.

Coming up, we're going to talk to Kim Gattas out of Lebanon to get her angle from that

angle of the war.

Also, Mark Caputo will join us as new reporting on Axias about how the Ukrainians are contributing.

We'll be right back with much more morning Joe.

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The goals of this mission are clear, and it's important to continue to remind the American

people of why it is that the greatest military in the history of the world is engaged in this

operation.

It is to destroy the ability of this regime to launch missiles, both by destroying their

missiles and their launchers, destroy the factories that make these missiles, and destroy

their navy.

Okay.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio yesterday offering those reasons behind why the United States

went to war against Iran, I think that's one, two, three, that might be a third, I don't

know.

Joe?

Well, again, Marco, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was actually the first to spell things

out fairly clearly several days ago, and that's positive.

It's just important, as anybody looks at this conflict, looks at this war, looks at what's

going on.

There are two sides of this, militarily.

It's been a remarkable military success.

We have degraded the nuclear capabilities.

We have degraded their ability to launch missiles across the region, possibly the United

States one day.

We have degraded their navy in an extraordinary way.

We have degraded their air defenses in an extraordinary way.

We have decapitated their leadership.

We'll see who replaces the leadership militarily, every military person that's looked at

what's happened will tell you that this has been extraordinarily successful.

Now, it would have said the same thing about Iraq and March and April of 2003.

But thus far, militarily, we're doing great.

Our challenge right now, as the general said, is on the political side, and anybody that

tells you, first of all, that the military hasn't done an extraordinary job, they've got

an agenda.

There obviously, there have been tragedies, but militarily, the operations have hit what

they wanted to hit and to create what they wanted to create.

The problem comes on the political side, where you have a war that's unpopular at home.

You've got gas prices rising that's going to be unpopular at home.

You have in Iran, you have a leader now that's a successor to his father, who seems to

be even more extreme.

This is a regional conflict, needs to be kind of put back in there, and right now there's

no one to negotiate with.

We have two different things happening right now, militarily, a success politically.

There are things that need to be developed, and things that need to be thought through

and things that need to be brought to a resolution, because right now, there are two different

realities in this war, one extremely successful, the other not successful yet.

Let's bring in contributing editor at the Financial Times, Kim Gita.

She's an Lebanon this morning, just outside of Beirut in the Washington Post, David Ignatius

has the first question, David.

So Kim, I want to ask you the Lebanon version of what we've been discussing.

Israeli military attacks on Lebanon have been overwhelming in recent days, but Israeli officials

that I have talked to in the last 24 hours say, we're getting most of the targets now that

we want to go after, and the Israelis do not want a ground invasion of Lebanon all the way

to Beirut.

They tried that in 1982, they don't want to do it again.

So they talk about the possibility that there might be a negotiation of a ceasefire working

with the Lebanese authorities, the Lebanese president on the Lebanese prime minister,

Nawaf Salam.

Do you hear that same thing in Beirut?

Do you think we're getting near the end of the Israeli campaign there, and then possibly

a ceasefire that might perhaps provide a model for broader de-escalation in this war?

David, great to speak to you, and thanks for having me, Mika and Jo.

I want to push back just a little bit first on the idea of a resounding military success

on Iran.

I actually, I'm not a military expert, and I will defer to military experts.

I think it's actually still a little bit too soon to make that assessment.

I know a lot has been degraded, a lot has been destroyed, but it's for, I think, still

a short-term setback for Iran, and they still have the capacity to do a lot of damage in

the region, including through some of their proxy militias like Hasbala in Iran and the

Shia militias in Iraq, and they will now work to try to live to fight another day.

So the concern in the region is also that this is just the first of many such fights, unless

we find a way forward that the liver is more positive results, more constructive results,

and this requires diplomacy, but also positive results for the Iranian people.

Going back to your question, David, there are talks now.

The president of Lebanon has made very clear.

He's saying the Lebanese are willing to sit down face-to-face with the Israelis to negotiate

a ceasefire and a way forward.

I don't think we're yet talking about a peace agreement.

The Prime Minister is on board as well.

Hasbala, of course, is not.

It is slightly incommunicado.

It's apparently difficult to be in touch with them.

But this is a moment where the Lebanese state is trying to really assert itself.

There is some criticism in the country that although this is a good step, this comes too

little too late, and they should have done this much sooner so that Lebanon would avoid

this war.

But it's complicated, David, as you know, Hasbala is part of the politics in the

country.

It has members of parliament.

It has influence in security institutions, state institutions.

This is a long-term battle for the Lebanese government to assert itself.

I do think that the military pressure by Israel will continue.

I expect it will increase, actually, over the next few days or weeks even.

You're right that there will not be an invasion all the way up to Beirut.

But I think there will be a bit of an incursion, a ground incursion, into southern Lebanon,

and I suspect the Israelis will take some parts of southern Lebanon, a few kilometers

in as a buffer zone, and that will then be part of the negotiation as well.

You know, Willie, what's so fascinating is, we've listened to Kim and talking about,

well, maybe the military operations not as successful as Americans are saying it is,

because this is still a very, very dangerous region, a very dangerous neighborhood which

parallels with what David heard earlier in his reporting that he reported earlier this

morning from a leader in the region saying, don't leave us with a battered, bruised, and

angry Iran.

And of course, that leader was talking about more military strikes, Kim's talking about

the importance of diplomacy. But there's no doubt we have a lot of allies in the region concerned

about America just cutting and running and leaving them with an angry and wounded Iran.

Including Israel, yeah, all of our allies in the region for sure.

And I guess general hurling it just depends again on what your definition of success is.

Does it mean taking out missile capabilities? As Marco Rubio said, does it mean obliterating,

as President Trump has said, the nuclear program, does it mean regime change? We're certainly

not on the path to regime change at the moment. So just tactically, strategically, from your point of

view as a general, the military campaign, just to add to this conversation that Joe and Kim are

having, how is it going from the US perspective? Well, from the standpoint of the military,

and I think, unlike Kim, I can speak to this. And what I will say is, I'll make a recommendation

to all politicians, quit starting your sentences with we've got the greatest military in the world.

The military knows what they can and can't do. And what they can't do is end a war. That's up to

the politicians. And to continue to open your sentences like Secretary Rubio just did with how great

the military is, is a waste of time. The military for the most part is pretty humble. There's not

hubris involved. We don't need other people telling folks how good we are. We know what we can do.

But we also know what we can't do. And that's the ground we're in right now. So I can say that.

I make that recommendation to all politicians, knock it off.

We're about what you've got to do to end wars. So to that point,

Kim Gattas, how important is US accountability, whether it's the girl school in Iran or whatever

else happens during this war, and especially when it comes to American credibility in the region

and working with partners? Well, I think that's going to be the biggest challenge to overcome.

Because you've heard it from your guests, David and the general also, that America's credibility

in negotiating with Iran is also short. And we heard that yesterday in an interview on another

channel that was done with the advisor to the Supreme Leader, Hamad Harazi, who said,

why would we negotiate with America? They lured us twice into the negotiations as a lead up

to a bombing campaign. So we're not going to sit down with them. I think that potentially

the Iranians will reengage precisely because it is about survival. So they may also lure America

back into negotiations to buy themselves some time to rebuild what they can rebuild, to reassert

control over the country, wherever they have lost control. And I want to remind our viewers,

last year or just over a year and a half ago, Hasbanda in Lebanon was supposedly completely

decimated and decapitated. And it was touted as a great military success as well. But there was no

diplomacy to back it up. There was no plan for the day after for how you capitalize on it. And

despite the best efforts of the Lebanese government across the year, Hasbanda was able to reconstitute

itself to some extent or its capacities to some extent. And it is now launching rockets at Israel.

When it comes to the region, I think there is a lot of concern and Joe's already mentioned it,

there is a lot of concern about how this ends and what comes after. I think we have to be careful

not to try to indicate that what Arab countries are asking for is a continuation of this war because

it is hurting them economically. But that's why we need to put all our heads together. And Arab

countries need to be involved in this effort as well to find the way forward with diplomacy and

continued military pressure. I assume there is going to be more economic sanctions on Iran. Perhaps

we're looking at a rock under embargo scenario where that leaves the Iranian people, you know,

not in a great place. Is there still a possibility for them to rise up in a few weeks or a few months

once they get a bit of a breather? It's really hard to predict at the moment. But again,

when President Trump says in January, your help is on the way and the Iranian people are left to

be slaughtered. You know, they're going to be thinking twice about taking to the streets again.

And here too, I think it is up to countries in the region as well to say at least to give, you

know, not practical support. We don't want to see other countries get involved on the ground. But

to speak out in support of the wishes of the Iranian people because that also might be

symbolic, but it does give people some courage. Contributing editor at the financial times,

Kim Gitas, thank you once again for your reporting and analysis this morning. And coming up on

morning Joe, we're going to have much more on the war with Iran, including what President Trump

said yesterday about the deadly bombing of an elementary school. Plus federal law enforcement

continues to pursue the president's false claims of 2020 voter fraud this time by seizing voting

records in Arizona. And as we go to break, a quick look at the traveler's forecast this morning

from AccuWeathers Bernie Reino. Bernie, how's it looking?

Mickey, it feels more like late April and early May today, you're excuse of actual the forecast,

sunshine, beautiful day, Boston 65 degrees. Watch out for the fog. Long Island, New York,

toward Philly this morning, other than that, it's sunny. Now, problems in the sentry United States

severe weather around Chicago, Indianapolis late today and tonight, Texas this afternoon and

crew looting Dallas, the rest of the southeast. It's Mormon humid with just some spotty,

thunderstorms. Travel delays not many, but there can be a few this morning in New York City in Philadelphia.

To help you make the best decisions, it'll be more in the know, download the AccuWeathers app today.

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New reporting from Axios this morning details a U.S. government decision seven months ago

to turn down and offer from Ukraine to buy its technology for shooting down Iranian drones,

only the reverse course last week after Iran began firing off a greater number of drones than

it's expected. White House reporter, poor Axios, Marco Pudos, following the story joins us now with more.

Also with us, the co-host of our 9am hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire,

fellow, it's good morning. So, Mark, this is such an interesting angle to the story of the war

in Iran, which is strategically interesting, but also politically interesting that Zalensky is

stepping forward and saying, United States, you're not giving me the help. I think I need right now,

but we're willing to offer you some help here with these drones. So walk us through the technology

that we're talking about and what that initial offer was seven months ago.

Essentially what we're talking about is sort of drone on drone attacks. The drones unmanned aerial

vehicles can get shot down by other unmanned aerial vehicles, other drones, and Ukraine has become

the world's expert in this technology because Russia, Putin, when he invaded, began using

Iranian-made drones, the Shahed drones, and the Ukrainians quickly adapted and came up with his

technology, and according to them, and most independent experts and analysts, it's worked quite well.

So seven months ago, Zalensky is in a meeting in the White House about seven months ago,

and he tells Donald Trump, look, I've got this thing and it works, and this was just about a month

after or two months after the United States had gone to war or had bombed Iran, and the Ukrainians

and Zalensky had proposed that they go into business with the United States to help manufacture as

many as 20 million of these anti-drone drones to shoot down Shahed drones. As part of this, they

presented a PowerPoint presentation, and that PowerPoint presentation actually displayed a map

of the Middle East. It showed where they could have a network of defensive drone hubs,

so that if Iran and if the United States were to come into conflict or its regional allies,

the United States regional allies, they would have protections against these drones.

No one knows why this was rebuffed or dismissed, but it was, and some administration officials

do acknowledge to us now that they say if there was a mistake, a tactical error in the lead up to

this war, this was it, the failure to procure these things, because now the United States last week

has decided to ask Ukraine, okay, yes, sure, let's get these things so we can stop some of these drones.

Well, Mark, it's not too hard to imagine why it was rebuffed considering the sort of reflexive

anti-Ukraine stance from this administration time after time, and even before this moment,

there was a real sense that the U.S. military was lagging behind in drone production. This is

the future of warfare. We've seen this in the Ukraine conflict. Other nations are far ahead of

where we are in terms of putting them together. So let's talk about this, the sort of what's

shadowing this decision is the ongoing Ukraine-Russia war, even in the last couple of days, and we spent

a lot of time on this yesterday where there's credible reporting that Russia is helping

Iran with intelligence. The Iran could then use to target U.S. military assets in the Middle

East, and it was met with just with a shrug by the Trump administration and the president himself,

down playing as, oh, this is no big deal. At the same time, Ukraine looking to help,

but in the president's remarks of late, still blaming Zelensky more than Putin for lack of a deal.

We know Trump and Putin spoke again yesterday.

Yeah, it's one of those things that even some Trump advisors are a little mystified about,

because they just acknowledge that sort of personally Donald Trump doesn't seem to like Zelensky

as much as he likes Putin, and for Trump, personality and personal relationships matter.

That I've even said is, you're right, the United States is an ally of Ukraine, and Ukraine is an ally

of the United States, and Iran is an ally of Russia and Russia is an ally of Iran, and for some

reason, though Trump is generally pretty good at these black and white mannequin worldviews of

you're with us here against us. In this case, for some reason, he doesn't quite get there. That

is one of the problems that was experienced back in what August, when the United States had

rebuffed or dismissed this offer, one of the officials that we spoke to said that while they

couldn't say why the United States decided not to take up this offer at the time, there was a sense

that this was quote, Zelensky, Bing Zelensky, being a bit of too much of a self-promoter,

and that he's sort of representing in the view of some and the Trump administration

of nation that doesn't quite punch above its weight. It's not quite as taken seriously as

Russia is. Now, however, because the drones have had an effect in the region, have been

implicated in the deaths of seven U.S. service members, they are taking the Ukrainians and their

technology a lot more seriously. Well, I don't understand, I just don't understand the White House's

attitude towards Ukraine, I never will. I've been hearing that Russia was going to take over

done-boss for a year now. It's not happening. I've been hearing that Ukraine's on the verge of

a collapse for a year now. It's not happening. Ukraine has had its most successful month since 2023,

on the battlefield taking land back from Russia. We go on and on, and here's the drone technology

that, again, could have made a huge difference in the opening weeks of this war. I'm curious. You

mentioned the men and women, the service of men and women who died in quite a zero-feeling inside

the Defense Department that this anti-drone technology, considered the best in the world,

would have been able to possibly stop those Iranian attacks. No one's gotten there, and no one

is dismissing the death of those seven service members. The re-oddias in war and in matters like this,

some missiles, some drones, some weapons of the enemy are going to get through, and there are

going to be some casualties. The estimate was that the... I certainly understand that. I certainly

understand that. I'm just curious, though, what kind of drone were the drones that actually

caused the American deaths? Were the drones the type of drones that this Ukrainian technology

was so good at stopping? Our understanding is that the drones that Iran is using, pardon me,

are the Shahed drones, and those are the platforms that have been sold to Russia that the Ukrainian drones

have shot down to. The answer to that is probably yes. Not a lot of specifics are coming out of

the administration about that. Not a lot of soul-searching in relation to this, but after the fact they

are admitting these things are effective, and we should have them in the United States to shoot these

things down. All right, White House reporter for Axis, Mark Caputa, thank you for that great

reporting, and his exclusive new reporting is available to read now online. David Ignace,

his final thoughts on where we are this morning and what you're going to be following,

what stories or what storyline are you going to be following today to try to figure out where this

war is going? So, Joe, I'm going to be looking at the issues that we've discussed. How soon

the US and Israel think they can complete their military goals, political goals aside. The military,

as you said, has been proceeding well. How many more days is that going to require?

How much force will it take to reopen the straight-of-war moves? That's going to be a major part

of bringing this situation back to normal. It's going to take a lot of effort, international

cooperation. And then, a final point that we haven't discussed, but I'm hearing from US

officials concerned about the precision targeting by Iran of US diplomatic intelligence personnel

in the Middle East. We've had the CIA station in Riyadh hit. That building has been out here

been hit twice. Yes, there were reports of attacks on a US consulate in Turkey, in Adana,

on a US facility in Nigeria, on a US facility in Norway. And there's concern the Iranians have

extremely good intelligence in their targeting. And one simple way for me to put it in closing is,

yes, it's going to have a yes-good event. David, could those targeting capabilities

be coming from Russia? Yes. Does Iran have the capability to do that itself? Or is it the belief

around the region that it's actually Russia that is providing them this precision targeting with

their intel? Certainly, there's a possibility that Russia's feeding specific coordinates. But the

Iranian terror network, let's be honest and describing it, is extensive that they plan operations

well. And the danger of a war that's going to spread out into Europe and even into the United

States, a war with a long tail that will take a long time for violence to recede is something I hear

people talking about more and more. But when you have the evacuation of all this non-emergency

diplomatic personnel from Saudi Arabia, you know something big is going on.

All right. The Washington Post, David Ignatius, thank you so much for coming on this morning.

And General Hurtling, your new book out today is titled, If I Don't Return, a Father's War Time

Journal. And you right quote, this journal was once a gift to our young sons. It's now a gift to

anyone who cares to read it. What do you hope readers will take away from it especially now?

Well, my publisher tells me it's not a war book. That it's more a book about character and leadership

and morals and values. And it's also about war and how you gain an understanding of life and the

importance of things that you do in crisis situations. Everyone goes through some type of crisis no

matter what business or industry or profession you're in. So I'm hoping some of the thoughts in

here, the reflections of a book that or a journal that I wrote 35 years ago will come through with

some additional life lessons about how to address different things that you can front and lie.

You can front. Yeah. General Hurt tends to become when we talk about it in the public and on

television, abstraction in many ways. So few of us actually serve anymore. It's not like the World

War II or even the Vietnam era with the draft when your next door neighbor to your right ear left

probably served as well. So what do you think people should know that this is not about statistics

or cool videos. The Department of Defense puts out of things blowing up about what was going

through your mind when you sat down in 1990 to write these letters. Yeah. Well, this was a thing for

family really not just our sons, but also for my wife in case I didn't come home and we were told

50% of us were not going to come home. So that's a scary thought when you go into that as a young man.

And it really narrows your vision and causes you to focus on what's important in life.

So the thing I tell you, Willie, if you read this book, it's not only about all those things,

I just said, it's also about the military and what families go through when they're deployed.

And the importance from a political standpoint, from a political leader standpoint of what happens

in all of those families, those thousands of families when you send America's sons and daughters

to war. It's more than just rock up and deploy. There's a whole lot that goes into it and a whole

lot of tensions within families. I mean, my wife once counted up the number of Christmases and

birthdays and anniversaries and tea ball games that I missed. And she said, this is what happens

when our nation goes to war. And she was understanding of that. And you write here in the book

to your family, you will never understand how I felt on the days leading up to my departure

from Lairberg. You probably couldn't understand why I was repeatedly touching your hair,

kissing and hugging you more than usual and watching both of you do the everyday things

that seem so normal. I pray that you boys never know this kind of fear. For years, men have been

going to war, so hopefully their children didn't have to. That is part of what love is about.

But I honestly believe that what we're being asked to do is so important, so overwhelming,

that if successful, peace will be with our country for some time in the future. I don't want you

guys to ever experience the fear I felt prior to coming here. It is also a feeling I never want

to have again. Talk about sharing those very intimate thoughts with your family and why it's so

important that other Americans understand what you and other brave Americans go through

when they go off to war. Well, Joe, that segment you just read was what I wrote to our seven

and ten-year-old in that journal. And each one of them and one of our daughters-in-law

deployed 11 different times to the same place that I was fighting in in 1991. So they had 11

different deployments to Iraq. My wife during that ten-year period after we entered Iraq had a

ten-year period where only four months of it, she had all of us home at one time. There were times

when two of us were there, one time when three of us were there, but there was only four months

where she didn't have to be concerned about one of her soldiers being away. That's a heavy thought

when you think about what a family goes through. And it's important that our spouses of soldiers

and all military members are probably in many cases stronger than we are because they have the

pride of their mate being a soldier, but they also have the fear of losing them. So those are the

kinds of thoughts that are in the book. I'd like to comment, too. My favorite part of the book is

the very last chapter. When I use something called MacArthur's prayer for his sons to describe

the intimacies of what a family relationship and what what parents caring for their children

is all about and what you wish for them. And it really centers around hubris and not having it,

having a whole lot of humility and a little bit of character and a whole lot of sustaining your

values. And at this point in our nation's history, I think all three of those things, humility,

values, character, leadership are kind of critical to what we're trying to do.

Should guide us. The new book, if I don't return, a father's wartime journal is out today.

We're tired of Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling. Thank you very much for coming on the show.

Congratulations on the book. Thank you, Nate. Thank you, General. Thank you, appreciate it.

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