Debate: How to Value an L1 Token With Dan Smith and Jonah Weinstein

Gm and Happy Monday! This week, Dan Smith, a Lead Blockworks Researcher and Jonah Weinstein, a Portfolio Manager of SkyCatcher, join Jason to dive into the timely conversation about which metric is better/best to evaluate L1 tokens – REV or RSOV? Start your day with the Empire newsletter by Katherine Ross: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv -- SKALE is the next evolution in Layer 1 blockchains with a gas-free invisible user experience, instant finality, high speed, and robust security. SKALE is built different as it allows for limitless scalability and has already saved its 50 Million users over $11 Billion in gas fees. SKALE is high-performance and cost-effective, making it ideal for compute-intensive applications like AI, gaming, and consumer-facing dApps. Learn more at https://skale.space and stay up to date with the gas-free invisible blockchain on X at @skalenetwork -- Marinade Labs develops staking technologies that strengthen Solana.In 2021, our protocol was the first to bring liquid staking to the network; today, our sophisticated, high-performance staking delegation platform brings billions in liquidity and security to the SOL market. We have solutions for both DeFi and TradFi, including liquid and native staking, as well as direct enterprise integrations. Our best-in-market features include user downside protection (through protected staking rewards) and optimized delegation (via our automated auction marketplace). Cryptoasset investors worldwide, from individual traders to global institutions, use Marinade to earn rewards on their SOL treasuries and holdings. We are headquartered in New York, with offices in the European Union, including Prague. To learn more about Marinade, visit https://www.marinade.finance. -- Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks. Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto. Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM.  - Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens - Summarize market-moving news instantly - Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie Get started today: https://askfocal.com -- Ledn is the leading platform for Bitcoin-backed loans, offering a secure and transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Ledn has issued over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and has never lost a single satoshi of client assets, earning a reputation as the name you can trust in the crypto space.Visit https://www.ledn.io to learn more. -- Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 02:31 - Why Do We Need Better Valuation Frameworks? 05:00 - What’s Wrong With The Metrics Today? 08:07 - What’s The Proper Reference Point To Understand Value? 09:33 - Are L1 Tokens Money? 11:10 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 12:48 - Is A L1 Token A Commodity Or Company? 19:32 - Why RSOV Valuation Is So Important 23:48 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 29:07 - Valuation Litmus Test 31:38 - RSOV & Capital Inflows 37:53 - What’s REV? 42:58 - RSOV’s Valuation Mechanism 44:43 - Where RSOV and REV differ 47:27 - If Native Assets 10X, Do The Hotspots? 49:05 - Ads (Falcon x, LEDN) 50:52 - Monetary L1 Premium Factor In? 55:36 - RSOV vs REV Valuation Trends Over Time 01:00:49 - How Does Staking / DeFi Deposits Impact Valuation? 01:02:47 - PE Values In RSOV 01:05:25 - Audience Question From Telegram — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.