Debate Rages After Mom Of 5-Year-Old Convicted For Letting Son Walk 1/2 Mile Alone

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human This message is sponsored by Regeneron and Santa Fe. Janikramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch your child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams, but when you're a mom, you never stop trying. If you feel like your child's moderate to severe eczema is an under control with topical prescription therapies, it could be time to ask their doctor about duPixen duPilliumab. DuPixen works inside the body helping to block a key source of inflammation that can cause eczema flare-ups on the outside. DuPixen helps your child stay ahead of their eczema symptoms with clear skin and less itch, and it's not a steroid or immunosuppressant. DuPixen can be used for children as young as six months. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur, get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling. Weasen or trouble breathing.

1:00Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches, and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Visit duPixen.com to learn more. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life lock's restoration specialists will do the hard work for you, because life lock truly protects your time, your name, and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's lifelock.com code Amy. DJ Hero Bread has a new collab. I think people are going to want to hear about it. Yes, a twist of anti-ans hero bread pretzel bites.

2:04That's the one 16 grams of protein is serving. And heroes breakfast bagels have up to 19 grams of protein too. All right, hero. You have our attention. Go to h-e-r-o dot-c-o. That's hero dot-c-o and use code Amy for 10% off all figures per serving of hero bread. See nutrition info on hero dot-c-o. This is Tamara Judge and Teddy Melon Camp from Two Teas in a Pod. There's a moment before anyone says it out loud, the room just feels different. I've been thinking about that lately. And for me, that's what pura is really about. Not just adding fragrance to a space, but shaping how a room feels is second you walk into it. Pura is a smart home fragrance diffuser, but the smart part isn't really about the tech. It's about what it does to a room. I can choose from hundreds of premium fragrances from brands I already love than set the scent, intensity and schedule right from my phone. The space responds to me, not the other way around.

3:06And honestly, the diffuser itself looks like something you'd intentionally put on a shelf. It's a modern design object that happens to change the atmosphere of your home. If you're thoughtful about how your space feels, take a look at pura. Choose your sense of place at pura.com. That's pura.com. Toyota's easy choice sales event is on. Whether you're looking for the performance of a camera, the versatility of a RAV4, the efficiency of a Corolla, or all electric driving in the BZ, there's a Toyota that's just right for you. And with great deals across the lineup, now's the time to find yours. But hurry, these deals won't last long. Toyota's easy choice sales event and soon. We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. Hey, the folks, it is Tuesday. September 8th and a mom has been convicted for letting her five-year-old child walk alone in the neighborhood.

4:12Let the parental judgment begin. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Okay, here we go. Parents, what you got to say, on the surface, Robes, this sounds like something what most parents do. Let my five-year-old walk a half a mile away to a pond. No, I wouldn't let my five-year-old walk half a block away. Okay, so there are more circumstances here. So tell me with the location, is this one? This is in Virginia and it's specifically in a gated community in Williamsburg, Virginia, a beautiful part of the country by the way. The fact is that there is a mother who has been convicted. Robes, what's the actual charge? The actual charge is contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Yes, because she let her five-year-old walk half a mile to a pond. She was reported for this, the cop showed up. She had to go to a little trial. She was convicted. Now, she's not going to jail. She got a six-month sentence, we should say, but it was suspended.

5:13But still, Robes, this has set people off and you're in one of two camps. You're in on her side, parent how you want to, or you on the side, maybe of the cops who did the right thing and say, lady, are you out of your mind letting this five-year-old walk? Look, and I think whatever you're thinking right now may change or evolve when you get the details. Because by the way, this mom is also, it's less about the conviction in the six-month suspended sentence. She is now on the Virginia child abuse and neglect registry for seven years, which means she cannot volunteer in her son's classroom until he is in the sixth grade. She can't do anything related to the school or any formal activity with her child, because yes, she is now a registered child abuser. Okay, that's, this is where I was, that's heavy. If you tell a mom, and this is a mom of four or five, I believe she is a mom of five. Okay, and you see their family fault.

6:14This is a woman who clearly looks engaged with this family. She was eight months pregnant at the time, and that plays into this as well. Okay, so not that she was claiming she was out of her mind, she was tired. So this mom, her name is, by the way, her name is Carianne Parkinson. She was eight months pregnant. She claims, and by the way, she is speaking out. She is telling her stories, so all of this comes directly from her. But she says they had walked down that same street together hundreds of times, including six times that morning. She said her son, five-year-old Sam, is kind of obsessed with goose feathers. He likes to collect them. They live in a gated community in Williamsburg, Virginia, complete with security guards. So this is a very protected community, okay? So she had walked, she said he knows the path. She was like, I understand a mom, a parent might see a headline that I let my child walk away pond by himself. She was like, I understand why that would cause alarm.

7:14It's not what happened. He just went on the path to the pond. The feathers are near it, but he had been on it six times already even that morning. So she says he wanted to go back again. She was like, I made months pregnant. I want to get lunch started. And she was tired. So she gave him permission to go. So you can go there, collect some feathers, and come right back. So a neighbor sees a little five-year-old boy walking by himself in the neighborhood near a pond. Would call some alarm. I, yes, I think anyone. I do believe this. Most neighbors would either call police to the child or what she did was notified the security guard. And probably what you do is just go, hey, little man. Would you go out here? Are you good? Yes. Where's your mom? Where do you live? And then I would walk him back. The security guard ended up doing that escorting this little boy back to the home. Now, according to the mom, Carianne, he said to her, we don't permit children to be out in the

8:18neighborhood alone. He was a little bit upset with her. She responded back to him. Is that an HOA by-law, a homeowners association by-law? Because I really don't think that's the rules. And the guard responded to her, well, if it's not against the rules, it's against the law, and I'm going to call the police. Okay, this sounds where everything went sideways. Exactly. Okay, and this was completely unnecessary. Any conviction shouldn't be there, and then cops never should have been called. If some rent the cop didn't like how she spoke to him. He didn't like it. I have to work in this neighborhood with all you privileged A-holes. Parents. And now you got this going on. Are you going to give me lip? I don't know if that's what happens. And I don't know. Rope, I'm just saying and joking here. I have no idea about this guy, so I'm not casting any explosions, but I'm saying you could see that possibly. Yes, and when she described that conversation, I thought, I'm sorry, you got upset that someone was telling you how to parent. You reacted. He reacted. It escalated. Police get called.

9:18Child protective services respond. They went and checked it out, and then they decided two weeks later to charge her with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. By the way, she could have pleaded out the no-low charge, but she refused to do so. Because she felt like that was her admitting guilt, and she didn't think she had done anything wrong. So she refused to plead out, and she was convicted. Now, here are some interesting facts about Karyan Parkinson and her family. So as I mentioned, she had been eight months pregnant with her fifth child at the time of the incident. This is a woman who has her bachelor's degree in family science. She just got her law degree from William and Mary in May, and she was studying for the bar when all of this happened. So maybe you can understand her reaction to the legality of it all. Like she was maybe even feeling her right as a parent, especially given her education, to do as she chose with her own child. Okay. Your reaction to that? I always say this, Rob.

10:20Just never the crime is the cover-up. Just in that moment, two people can't realize or recognize what was going on, and to just respect each other a little bit. To not see each other as bad people, Robes. Oh, I didn't know what actually happened is we let him, he's on this path a lot, and I just let him walk. If that's an issue, we think I shouldn't do that anymore. I can assure you, I'll just make sure this never happens again and could have left it. And he could have heard that and just understood like, okay, but come on now. He's little and it's going to alarm some people in the neighborhood, so let's just make sure this doesn't happen again. Robes, this is not hard stuff. Why do everything escalates with us? Robes, you read that to me, and I hear ego. Ego crushes us so much in life. Robes, all this, because two people, two adults, grown folks just couldn't look at each other and come to you offended me by asking about my parenting, and you offended me now by questioning my authority to tell you what to do with your kid in this neighborhood.

11:23This is my neighborhood, I run this, you know, that stuff, baby. That stuff agreed, escalated it, but then police and prosecutors chose to pursue the charges, which is part of the debate here. She claims- Never should have been called. Right? Exactly, but once they got involved, where is the law? And that is a question right now, because there are some rules in Virginia and several other states that would seem to give parents leniency when it comes to making choices about their children. She claims that she allowed her son to do this half mile walk, because she and her husband believe it's important for kids to quote encounter reasonable risks to do anything that they feel confident doing within safe parameters. And she added, I know what my son is capable of. He is confident, and he was capable of making that walk. And by the way, that is a one mile round trip walk at five years old. That I believe he is in kindergarten.

12:27I know for me personally, and I don't care if it's a New York City street or a gated community, my parents live in one. I would be so worried about other people, all the possibilities. Maybe if I didn't even worry about my son, I would worry about how other people might react to my son, and does my son at five have enough life experience to know how to handle a stranger coming up to him, a car pulling up to him, and even if you think your son knows how to handle it, does he really have life experiences? Okay, I would say no. Same. There is no way I would allow this. There's no way I've ever let five year old walk out on his or her or just that's me. I defer to this parent, not yourself. I have no criticism of this woman. I don't know this path. I don't know how often they've done it. I don't know how often he's maybe done this a couple of times on his own before, or a little bit on his own. Robes, didn't they describe as well that the where the path he was on, there was like a 10 foot gap between that path and the street.

13:31So it's not like he's walking on a sidewalk, very close to a street. Robes, I have a woman who's got five kids who are all alive and healthy. I will defer to her knowing what she's doing. Knock yourself out. I wouldn't do it, and that should be the end of it. There is no criticism. I don't have any hoot and hollum and screaming and how dare you. Nope, not at all. My criticism comes from those two who can't work this out in the cops need to get called. It's, I know. And the interesting thing is, I mentioned this earlier, Virginia is one of 13 states with what they call a reasonable independence law. And that's supposed to prevent the state from second guessing a parent's decision. Is that exactly? Yeah, but doesn't this case seem like it would be exactly the reason why there's a reasonable independence law on the books in this state? Okay, but that's the thing. I say vague. Reasonable is a who's reasonable to that's true. That's just some vague language about still who gets to determine that you had a reasonable right to do what you did and what the child was doing was a reasonable risk. Yeah.

14:33That is the law in which they will be appealing this decision. But I want to now when we come back, get into the massive online debate that this story has caused. And one headline, I will tease it to you like this, mom lands on abuse registry for letting her kid take a walk. Meanwhile, Lindsey Clancy could walk for killing her kids. This message is sponsored by Regina Ron and Santa Fe. Jana Kramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch her child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams. But when you're a mom, you never stop trying. If you feel like your child's moderate to severe eczema is an under control with topical prescription therapies, it could be time to ask their doctor about do Pixant, do Pylumab? Do Pixant works inside the body helping to block a key source of inflammation that can cause

15:34eczema flare ups on the outside? Do Pixant helps your child stay ahead of their eczema symptoms with clear skin and less itch? And it's not a steroid or immunosuppressant. Do Pixant can be used for children as young as six months. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, weasening or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches, and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Visit dopixant.com to learn more.

16:39For more information, visit dopixant.com to learn more. Go to h-e-r-o dot-c-o, that's hero dot-c-o, and use code Amy for 10% off. All figures per serving of hero bread. See nutrition info on hero dot-co. This is Tamara Judge and Teddy Melon Camp from Two Teas in a Pod. There's a moment before anyone says it out loud. The room just feels different. I've been thinking about that lately, and for me, that's what pura is really about. Not just adding fragrance to a space, but shaping how room feels is second-you-walk into it.

17:42Pure is a smart home fragrance diffuser, but the smart part isn't really about the tech. It's about what it does to a room. I can choose from hundreds of premium fragrances from brands I already love than set the scent, intensity, and schedule right from my phone. The space responds to me, not the other way around. And honestly, the diffuser itself looks like something you'd intentionally put on a shelf. It's a modern design object that happens to change the atmosphere of your home. If you're thoughtful about how your space feels, take a look at pura. Choose your sense of place at pura.com. That's pura.com. Toyota's easy choice sales event is on. Whether you're looking for the performance of a camera, the versatility of Arab 4, the efficiency of a Corolla, or all electric driving in the BZ. There's a Toyota that's just right for you. And with great deals across the lineup, now's the time to find yours. But hurry, these deals won't last long. Toyota's easy choice sales event ends soon.

18:45We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We left you with that headline. And it was one of many as people react to hearing word that Kari Ann Parkinson is now on an abuse registry for the next seven years in the state of Virginia, a Mama 5 because she allowed her five-year-old son to walk half a mile towards pond to collect some goose feathers, something he loves to do. So yes, I was actually surprised. Most people from what I gathered are 100% on the side of this mom. Because they're parents. How dare you tell me anything? I know what my kid is capable of. I know what my kid can do. Can't do. Yeah, my kid is more advanced than yours. All kinds of stuff. And the interesting thing is this isn't a case of a mom who was negligent, who was looking the other way, who was distracted by her other kids, who fell asleep,

19:49who was under the influence of some sort of substance. No, she is a working mom who actually has a very good command of the law having just graduated from law school and made a deliberate choice to give her son this responsibility. Do parents have the right to determine what age a child is capable of doing something independent of them? No. According to this? No. There, I mean, somebody at some point is going to make, there's not a hard number, but maybe more people would generally agree, three is too young. Maybe some would go, okay, four is pushing it. Some would say, five, a-sastical. Some would, I mean, who's to say what too young is and what you can allow your kid to do that nobody else and those two cop cars or some judge has any idea about your kid? I mean, I remember you and I having this conversation because my daughters are what, 10 years older than Sabine and counting. So you've asked, like, is it too young to let Sabine stay in the house alone

20:53when she was, I believe, 10? Is it too young to let Sabine walk from apartment to apartment? You know, at what age is that? Okay, look, we all have these questions and we all want the best for our kids. And look, this woman, I think this is very interesting. She claims that the only reason why her son was scared was because the security guard said to him, there are scary adults out here. You should never be alone. You don't know what someone else would could do to you and put this idea in his head that adults are scary and bad things can happen to you. And she said that was the most traumatizing part of the entire experience for her son is what the security guard said to him. Maybe he's not a parent. I'm serious. Right. There's something that a man, woman, there is a way that a parent approaches a helpless kid or somebody that needs help. That's just the way you do it. And that's not how you do it. Where you doing out here? Somebody go snatch you up. Yeah, that's exactly what basically happened. Look, I, okay, what you doing out here? Okay, let me just get you back to your mom. Well, we're good. That's how you talk to a kid. Yes,

21:54apparently that's not what happened. And look, listen to some of these comments. I want to get your reaction. Stupid, rich, paranoid carons, pretentious homeowners associations. I guess paying for 24 hour security, three golf courses and club amenities also alleviates these types of communities from any responsibility or inconvenience associated with knowing your neighbors or caring about them personally. You know, it's going to piss me off. Yeah, but their point is like, you got this pretentious community and they don't even care enough about each other. They don't know each other enough to go and talk to her mother to mother or neighbor to neighbor and say, I saw your kid out here. No, involve police, involve security guards. Disassociate yourself from any actual human interaction with this family and just judge them. But that's yeah. And now they're being judged. Exactly. Just just just just just just we just don't know why can't we have robes? Why can't we start with this? This is just a decent lady. The security guards, a decent dude, the neighbor who

22:54called the decent person. They all had the best of intentions. Let's just assume that. And you know, as adults often do egos and pride and all kinds of stuff gets in the way and we make mistakes, we mess up everybody messed up. If any, is anyone making the argument wrong that the right thing was done here, that this child was continues to be in danger by having her as a parent? Is anybody saying that? No. Exactly. And I think you'll like this next comment. Don't love this in cities. But this and this is where people get political. This leftist BS where it is a criminal offense to let your kids go outside. As a cop, I am ashamed of this outcome. This is simply the direction the world is going in. Different kids, different, yes, different maturity, but also different geographical locations, robes, the type of stuff I used to do when I was a kid in Turral Arkansas with my grand daddy. I assure you. We didn't wear seatbelts for God's sakes. I was on the back of motorcycles with my uncles. I drove a car when I couldn't even reach back and

23:59pick up trucks, driving around. Oh, yeah, that thing. Absolutely. Taking taking our bikes, my brother and I all over the neighborhood. It's not safe. We get it. It's different, but there are, there are different dangers for a kid walking around in West Helena, Arkansas in the back yard than there are for a kid walking up the upper west side in New York. It's different. I didn't think anything of it. Rose, how many times we've seen little kids walking up a down the street on a country road somewhere? I never stop to think anything. It's just what it is. I mean, look, and you go over to yes, yes, it did. And you look, you go over to other countries. I'll never forget when I went to Tanzania and I saw what looked like a six, seven-year-old little girl literally leading a herd of cattle on her own with the staff. And she had a big old smile on her face and was so confident and knew exactly what she was doing. But look, there have been a couple cases here in this. I wanted to remind you, I think you'll remember the one in Maryland in 2015, where the parents were eventually cleared. But they were facing criminal neglect charges because

25:03they let their kids ages 10 and 6 walk home alone from a park. Neighbors called police gut involved and that was a huge story back then. The whole helicopter parent debate started running. This is recent. Georgia, Fulton County claims that neglect and abuse after a couple allowed their six-year-old to scoot her home from a playground a quarter mile away. They had charges against them. They were eventually dropped on appeal. And in Texas, a mother actually spent the night in jail. She had to resign from her job after she was convicted for endangering her child because she made her eight-year-old walk a half a mile home to calm down. Look, I believe, maybe I'm forgetting this eight. But I feel like I could see you get out of the car, you're being obnoxious, walk the rest of the way home. I think my dad threatened to make me walk the rest of the way home sometimes. That's absolutely. I laugh because I remember I think being threatened with that as a kid. You might not have seen the video, former NFL player, not too long ago.

26:04Yes. It was two in the morning and he had his kid running as a punishment or training or whatever. And people were going off on him and some people were thanking him. Probes who each his and her own. Parenting is just not something you touch. I am not criticizing anybody for what they think is right for their kid. It's maybe it's not what I would do. Fine, and I have my reasons. You might have your reasons for letting the kid do it. This is, with the debate, has sparked. I just, it escalated. Yes, unnecessarily so. And I do not believe that she should be on a child abuse registry for the next seven years, limiting her ability to be a PTA parent. Think of the other people who are probably on that registry and what they did. Some would go, oh, that's nice of her to allow the kid, something he really wanted to do. She couldn't make it and still find a way. I want to be done it before. Like on his own. It's possible. It's possible. And look, you know, this is, this is a debate that will continue. People think they know best. But when the law gets involved, the state gets involved.

27:07Now it's a legal issue. And she is appealing it. We will see because we have seen in other cases similar to this that those appeals have been won. So she may have a, and look, with her recent law degree, she may be able to even represent herself. But is it also fair to, I mean, when police show up, prosecutors get involved. You have a victim. And aren't they supposed to be looking out first and foremost for this five year old? But they believe was in danger. Yes. Okay. That's the argument. So what's the age, baby? Oh, for me? No, no, no, for this case. Like how do we do this? Every kid's different. And that's her point. No, but the security guard at what point would he not call the cops? Okay, you six, you're good. Seven. I'm okay with that. Eight. Okay. Like is it up to him to determine? This is what it sounds like. He gets to determine whether or not your parenting is warrant, warns him calling the cops. Don't piss him off. Well, this debate is absolutely going to continue.

28:10We will follow any new developments. We always appreciate you listening to us. Everybody. I made me a robot alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically, we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life locks, restoration specialists will do the hard work for you because life lock truly protects your time, your name and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's life lock.com code Amy. Hey, TJ, I have something that might get your attention. Well, just saying that, obviously, you got my attention. All right, Hero Bread has a new collab, a twist of anti-ans hero bread pretzel bites with 16 grams of

29:15protein a serving. Stop. Anti-ans pretzel bites, 16 grams of protein. Okay. Yes, you have my attention now. And that's not all heroes. Breakfast bagels have up to 19 grams of protein and they also make sliced bread, tortillas, buns, and noodles. So let me get to the right. Hero has found a way to rethink a lot of the carbs people were already in love with. That's right. Exactly protein, fiber, and zero to five grams of net carbs without giving up the foods you actually want to eat. Sounds like a pretty easy swap. It is. So check it out at h-e-r-o.co that's hero.co and use code Amy for 10% off your order. All figures per serving of hero bread see nutrition info on hero.co. This is Tamara Judge and Teddy Melanchamp from Two Teas in a Pod. There's a moment before anyone says it out loud. The room just feels different. I've been thinking about that lately. And for me, that's what pura is really about. Not just adding fragrance to a space, but shaping how a room

30:19feels is second you walk into it. Pura is a smart home fragrance diffuser, but the smart part isn't really about the tech. It's about what it does to a room. I can choose from hundreds of premium fragrances from brands I already love than set the scent, intensity, and schedule right from my phone. The space responds to me, not the other way around. And honestly, the diffuser itself looks like something you'd intentionally put on a shelf. It's a modern design object that happens to change the atmosphere of your home. If you're thoughtful about how your space feels, take a look at pura. Choose your sense of place at pura.com. That's pura.com. Toyota's easy choice sales event is on. Whether you're looking for the performance of the camera, the versatility of a RAV4, the efficiency of a Corolla, or all electric driving in the BZ, there's a Toyota that's just right for you. And with great deals across the lineup, now's the time to find yours. But hurry, these deals won't last long. Toyota's easy choice sales event

31:24and soon. We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAENGER. Click ranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.