Define Your Value: Own Your Identity & Growth with Jason Feifer

You are listening to Mick Unplugged hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt.

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I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place.

Let's get Unplugged.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged, and I don't

do this a lot, but I'm going to fanboy out because I'm talking to someone that I have

looked up to and admired and followed for a long time.

He is the storyteller behind Entrepreneur Magazine.

He is someone whose social media is so tight that I've been following it for a couple of

years and his content is truly amazing.

He's a visionary.

He has a future proof of mindset.

He is the goat, and you all know I don't use that term a lot.

He is the goat.

Mr. Jason Pfeiffer.

Jason, how are you doing today, brother?

Oh my God, Mick, what a generous intro.

I'm really glad that that was recorded so that I can play it back to myself whenever I'm

feeling down.

That was wonderful.

It's so great to be here with you.

Bro, I'm the honor one.

When I tell you that I've been a huge fan with the work that you've done an entrepreneur

for a long time, and not just the title of editor.

And chief, you get that title because of the great work that you do, right?

Like that's just not something that you just walk into one day and say, Hey, I'm editor

and chief, but the way that you humanize people, the way that you study entrepreneurs,

like I get so much wisdom just from looking at your years of content on things that you've

learned by being around entrepreneurs insights that you've given.

Man, I just, I owe you so much.

You have no idea.

My God.

That is an honor to hear.

I appreciate the way that you said that, by the way, Mick, because you were like, you

know, the title is short, short, short, but this is what you really do.

And I love that because I don't want people to know me by the title, to be honest with

you, because in life, there are really two kinds of things.

They're the things that you rent and the things that you own.

And the title is something that I rent.

It's not my company.

It's never going to be my company.

And so I rent this title for some period of time.

And then that time will end and somebody else will get it.

And so I have always been focused on what can I own?

And the thing that I can own is my voice and my perspective and the value that I bring

to others.

And I hope people recognize that.

And the thing that you're picking up is the thing that I have, I have this theory that

all humans have the same skill that we all have one skill and that is pattern recognition.

And the thing that makes us different is that we're all good at recognizing different

patterns.

And the thing that I think I'm good at is recognizing the patterns of how people talk and communicate

and think and then how to best process and repeat that to other people in memorable

ways.

That's the thing that I do.

And once you figure out what pattern you fit with, you can lean everything into it.

And you have no idea where it will bring you.

Like for example, that I've just been out there doing my thing and I had no idea that

it was crossing your path, that it was meaning something to you and that means the world.

Well, it definitely means the world to me.

There's so much that I picked up on personal level, definitely on a business level.

And I owe you a lot.

And we're going to go into a lot of that today.

And I didn't even, I didn't even mention the book that probably saved my business.

We're going to get there too.

You didn't know that you did that, but you saved one of my businesses.

My God.

I didn't know what I was walking into today, man.

This is incredible.

I said, I didn't want a fanboy on you, man, but like, you can ask everyone on my teams

like they'll tell you, you know, my top five people, Jason Fifters in the top five.

Like, man, but I don't want to upset other folks.

I'm just going to say you're in the top five.

Sure.

Sure.

Could be number one.

Yeah.

But whatever.

Everyone else can dream of where they are on that list.

Yeah.

Holy cow, man.

What a true honor.

Well, I'm really excited to be here and to talk about whatever you want to talk about.

Well, I want to ask you the question.

I ask everyone, you know, like, I know you listen to the show.

So you know about your because that thing that's deeper than your life.

I want to say, you know, Jason Fifters, what's your purpose?

What, why do you do the things that you do today?

What's your because?

What would that be?

So I do indeed know that you asked that question.

I think it's a great question.

I have two answers for you.

Answer number one is that when I got to entrepreneur magazine, I was just a magazine guy.

My background was in making media.

And when I first arrived at entrepreneur, originally is the number two with the magazine

and then about nine months later, the editor in chief left, you know, again, renting the title.

And it was passed along to me.

And I thought of it as just a media job, which is just the job here is to make a great piece of media.

And after about a year of reworking the magazine and working deeply in the brand,

I started to say yes to interview requests.

And I started going to podcasts and television stuff radio.

And I realized that people were talking to me with an expectation

that I didn't necessarily have of myself.

I thought of myself as maybe a storyteller and a media guy.

And they saw me as an authority.

And I didn't feel like an authority make at all.

It was an imposter syndrome thing.

I just didn't know how to live up to the thing that they thought I was.

But I realized if I could live up to the thing that they thought I was,

then opportunities were boundless.

And that was a personal challenge, which was, how do I think bigger about myself?

How do I own ideas and identities?

That frankly, I'm not comfortable doing right now.

If I can push myself out of the smallness of what I thought I was into something that's bigger

that I don't even know what the boundaries are,

I think that on the other end of that is tremendous personal growth and discovery.

And the kinds of experiences that I can't even imagine.

And I just wanted to go there.

And so a big part of my because was seeing that there is opportunity available.

I love the word available and kind of obsessed with the word available.

And the reason, by the way, is because there's the things that are asked of you

and then there are the things that are available to you.

And those are totally different things.

The things that are available to you.

Nobody's asking you to do that they may not even be that visible.

But the more you search for them, the more you realize they are available.

And that is the pathway to growth.

I just wanted to do it because I thought a bigger life was on the other end of it.

And it turns out that that's true.

So that's answer number one.

The answer number two is that I was having a conversation with a friend of mine.

I'm sure you've had many conversations like this where we were like, what is the point?

Like what are we working towards?

Why do we do this?

And what do we do with the money we've made and everything?

And I wanted an answer to that.

Like a real answer to that.

And so I challenged myself.

I thought, what makes me happy on an average day?

You know, it's kind of not worth asking what makes you happy on a special day

because those days don't repeat.

But what makes you happy on an average day?

And I realized that it was this very hyper specific thing.

And it was being in physical motion, engaging with interesting people

about interesting things.

And so that could mean running around town, I live in New York,

you know, just kind of bopping around the city to different meetings

and meeting interesting people, some who I know well,

some who I'm going to get to know.

It could mean flying across the country for a talk.

And then while I'm there, I'm also going to take a bunch of me.

And I just love kind of moving.

I ask people if they'll take walks with me instead of coffees with me.

And so I realized that is a state of being.

This is the phrase I came up with.

That is a state of being.

My state of being that I want to live in is moving physically,

interacting with interesting people about interesting things.

And everything that I do, all my choices that I make,

all the things that I commit myself to,

are really about either creating or maintaining that state of being.

And I think that we can all step back and ask ourselves,

what state of being do I like to be in?

Is it a state of being of constant building?

Is it a constant problem solving state of being?

Is it just about building, maintaining relationships?

What's the thing, the essence, the thing that I love inside of my life?

Because once you know that, then you can make decisions

about what you commit to based on whether or not it creates or maintains that state.

Dude, that is so amazing.

And we're about to have a continuation of this master class

that you're dropping on us right now.

Because you've said something and you've said it many times in different ways.

But the first time I heard it out of your mouth, I frozen my tracks.

Because it went against the grain of everything that we were taught in society

from youth to adults.

You said that we often confuse our skills with who we are, right?

I'd love for you to break that down, man.

Because when I first heard you say that, I was like, wait a second, right?

Like we were told that athletes are athletes, right?

We were told that comedians are comedians.

We were told that business people are business people.

And when you break it down further, accountants are accountants.

But you challenged me to say your skill set isn't necessarily who you are.

And I was like, wow, and it made me change my outlook on myself first.

And then honestly, how I was building my teams in the corporate level.

Hmm. Oh, well, yeah, you know, it came from this realization that I had.

Honestly, when I was struggling to understand my identity

as major parts of my career change.

So I started as a local newspaper reporter.

And I loved being a local newspaper reporter.

I had dreams of being a newspaper reporter.

And so it became my identity.

I am a newspaper.

If someone came up to me at a party and asked what I did, that's what I would say.

I'm a newspaper reporter.

And that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with it.

But the problem is that when we tie our identities to the output of our work

or the roles that we occupy, then as soon as any of those things change,

it doesn't just feel like a change to our work.

It feels like a challenge to who we are.

And I think that is the reason why so many people hold on to what came before

instead of being open to what comes next is because they are anchoring their identities

in the roles or the tasks.

And so we need a better way to understand ourselves.

And I came to think of this as the thing that does not change in times of change.

And as I met with entrepreneurs and incredible leaders, I started to hear them

articulate their identities in this really interesting way.

It just give you two examples.

I remember talking to a founder of a baking mix company who said,

I don't sell baking mixes.

I bring joy to people through sweet baked goods.

And then I was talking to the president of a cosmetics company who said,

I don't sell cosmetics.

I help people reclaim their sense of self.

And what's happening there is really interesting.

They are setting aside the thing that they do.

And they are instead identifying a transferable value,

something that they have that others always need so that whenever anything changes,

it doesn't actually challenge that transferable value.

Instead, all it does is it creates a new opportunity for them to do the thing

that they already do best.

And so the way in which I found to do this is to follow this framework

that they just were organically talking about.

It's a short sentence.

It starts with I and then every word is carefully selected

because it's not anchored to something that's easily changeable.

This is the mission statement for yourself that you should create.

So it's the difference for me between I am a magazine editor,

which is so deeply changeable.

I mean, you know, Mick, I've turned off my notifications

so that I can focus just on you right now.

But I could have just gotten an email telling me that I am fired

for Monster Hunter magazine at which point I am not a magazine editor.

It's so deeply changeable.

But how's this?

I tell stories in my own voice.

Seven words, stories is this word that really anchors me

because I can tell stories to you right now,

but in a book in my own podcast and my newsletters when I'm standing on stage

talking to, you know, 500 people at Clorox or Pfizer or whatever,

like I tell stories wherever I want, frankly,

and there is infinite value in knowing how to connect someone's needs

to a story that can help them.

And then in my own voices, me setting the terms for how I want to operate

at the stage of my career.

So that insight helped me through that period of transition

that I was telling you about earlier where I had to go from,

hey, well, wait, all I do is that I make magazines.

That's all I do, right?

Which is what you're talking about with skill set.

Like I just know how to do this thing.

And let me live inside that box of that thing.

But there's another way of thinking about it, which is,

which is, what do I understand?

What am I driven by?

That has enabled me to develop these skills in the first place

that enabled me to get those roles.

Because that thing that's deeper is the thing that truly,

truly will enable us to move forward and to be grounded,

no matter what changes.

Dude, again, that's why I love you, man.

When I say that that thing changed me,

it helped me a couple of years ago when I'm not going to say I was going

through a brand crisis, but it was one of those things where,

and you get this, right?

Serial entrepreneurs do so many things.

And I remember I was talking to my mentor, Damon John, right?

And I was like, Damon, I don't know how to get this message across

because I feel like I'm going to confuse people.

Am I a podcaster?

Am I a business strategist?

Do I do emotional intelligence?

Like I don't want people to feel like I'm selling something every time they meet me.

And he said, be who you are.

And the moment he said that, one of your posts popped up.

And I was like, Jason saying the same thing.

And then you were able to help me with what you just said.

And so my message truly became one of two things.

I either help humans emotionally connect with other humans, right?

Or, you know, I help people find their true because.

And what you just said is how I took it.

That evolves as I evolved, right?

That is always going to be a constant no matter what I do.

Like those two things are who I am.

And so that helped me because maybe I'm not on a podcast.

Maybe I'm on television or maybe I'm working with the Fortune 500.

But those two things are always going to be true as to who I am and what I do.

So I owe that to you.

And I thank you more than you'll ever know.

Oh my God.

I love hearing that.

And I'll tell you, Mick, I travel around and I give a lot of corporate keynotes.

And there's a lot of a whole segment at the start, which is all about this.

And helping people get to this particular mission statement.

And then I hop off the stage and I run around the room and I have people share it.

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I have heard the most incredible things, but two things that just popped into my head as

you are sharing yours and how what you said matches what I hear from so many folks is

number one, a great filter for whether or not you've found the right mission statement

for yourself is, is this something everyone always needs?

No matter what changes, is there a need for the thing that I have and that I am?

Because if you've identified that, then you are always valuable, no matter what changes.

You may have to figure it out a little bit, it's going to be some changes to the structure

and delivery, but you know that there's a need and what you said there about yourself

could not complete that mission more.

And then the other thing was finding something that feels true no matter what changes in

your career or in your work, I will never forget a woman in Chicago said this to me.

She had just put a thriving consulting business on hold because she had had her first child

and she wanted to stay at home and raise that first child for a while.

And she said that she has really struggled with that, not because of raising children,

the part as that is, I have two little ones, so I get it, but because it really challenged

her sense of self, she didn't relate to the phrase stay at home mom, even though that's

technically what she was right now.

And so she didn't know how to think of herself.

And then she came to through this exercise, this statement, I help people become the best

versions of themselves, which works equally for the consulting business as it does for

raising a child and whatever she does next.

People do not spend the time to step back.

I think the more experience you are, the less you spend time thinking about this kind

of stuff, and you need to, because you need to understand what your value is, because

then you can always own that.

Look, Damon, anyone who knows Damon's story knows that at the very beginning of Fubu,

when they had signed LL Cool J, which is a huge deal, they decided to carve out some

of their marketing budget away from the LL Cool J stuff and just towards promoting the

founders, just promoting, promoting Damon.

And the reason for that was because, you know, look, LL Cool J comes, LL Cool J goes, you

got to be able to own your own identity and to be the person that people connect with.

And if they connect with you, then they'll connect with whatever it is that you have to

offer.

And I love that story about Damon, because that was personal branding long before that

term existed, long before, but he understood it.

And I think we all need to understand that no matter what we do, we better be able to

define ourselves and make sure that others recognize that definition.

Truly agree.

So for the person that's watching or listening right now, and they're like, Jason, make

that sounds awesome.

How do I do that?

I'm a lowly, not lowly, I don't mean it that way, I'm a consultant, I'm an insurance

agent.

Yeah, I own a bakery down the street.

You are so spot on that you are a brand now, right?

Like, I tell, I tell most people that I work with, if you're not your own publicist,

you've already lost, because social media makes it so much easier to promote yourself,

to be as visible as you can be.

How does someone take that first step when that's not who they have naturally been?

Yeah.

Well, look, there are a couple ways to think about this.

So number one is just, who are you and what value are you providing?

So if you run a bakery, I mean, I just use that example of the baking mix CEO who said,

I bring joy to people with sweet baked goods, you can embody that too.

That's what you're doing.

A bakery is not selling sweet baked goods.

A bakery is selling joy and you are bringing joy to your community.

You are a place that people come to when they either want joy or they want to bring joy

to somebody else.

So once you understand and appreciate that, you can think, how can I make that a little

better?

How can I be a little more joyful?

How can I be proactively making sure that when people want joy, when they think of joy,

they come here and that I embody that too?

How do you go out of your way to connect with the people who walk in so that they are thinking

about you when they're enjoying whatever it is that you created?

And now what you're really doing here is you're defining a specific value that you have

that's related to your brand.

If we're going to get into personal branding and I know that that sounds like just the pulling

teeth for a lot of people, nobody people don't want to do this and I understand it.

It's exhausting, but it's so valuable as well.

If you're not maximizing yourself as an asset, you are leaving so much money on the table.

People connect with people, not with brands.

They want to connect with you, not just the thing that you sell, you.

So the more in which you put yourself out there, the more in which they will love you

and the things that you have to offer.

And I know that that sounds exhausting.

So let me make it really easy and simple.

When you put yourself out there, you're not putting yourself out there.

That sounds like a lot to put yourself out there.

Maybe you're a more private person.

Maybe you think, I, nobody cares what I have to say.

That's fine.

That's fine.

You're not putting yourself out there.

You know what you're doing?

Creating a little character and that character is a really focused version of you.

It's the 5% of you that's most relevant to your consumer.

It's like asking, what does my product do?

What does my product solve for people and how can I solve a version of that as well through

my own communication and my own personality?

So if you're selling sweet baked goods and your problem that you're solving is people

need more joy in their lives and I'm going to deliver that joy?

Well, okay.

How do you do that too on social media?

Is it through suggestions of baking recipes?

Is it delightful cakes because people just love looking at cakes?

Is it process of making something?

People will love watching the way that you make your cookies or whatever.

Love it.

Love it so much.

So you're creating a narrow focused version of you.

I think of myself as I call it the 5% character.

You're creating a 5% character version of yourself that you can embody so that whenever

you show up on social, whenever it's time to make a video, whenever it's time to come

on a podcast, you slip into this character and you know who this character is and how

they talk and how they think because they are the delivery system for the thing that you're

offering.

What do I offer?

I offer optimism and I offer a sense that you can do it.

And I want to simplify complex problems.

So Mick, when I come on here, I'm so excited to connect with you, the person, but I am also

showing up as Jason Pfeiffer, the character, Jason Pfeiffer, the character who talks in

this way and who talks about these things and has this specific set of ideas that he goes

back to.

Jason Pfeiffer, the guy who you'd have lunch with, you know, we could also talk about this

stuff, but we'll talk about random other stuff too that has no business being on this

podcast.

I am creating a focused version of me right now and you create a focused version of you.

Brand is, brand is three things.

A brand is simple, repeatable and scalable and all you have to do is turn yourself into

something that is simple, repeatable and scalable as well.

What is the simple thing that people should understand from you?

How do you do that over and over and over again and then how do you reach the most number

of people with it?

It's that simple.

Amazing.

Amazing.

I want to go to the opposite side of this because this is something I also learned from

you because two years ago, I wasn't on social media.

I was on LinkedIn, but on LinkedIn, you just throw some posts out there or whatever.

I wasn't on Instagram and I wasn't doing video content and so I studied you because I

heard people say, hey, Mick, just make content.

Just do whatever.

But I started looking at people and I couldn't understand their identity and so that's

where I want to go.

There are people that are putting out content, but I think they're doing it wrong, meaning

you need to have some centralized theme or message.

It doesn't mean that every video or every post has to be on a centralized theme, but I

should be able to, after a couple of posts, know who you are the individual and I see

so many people getting it wrong because they'll just film anything and sometimes that's

too distracting and I will tell you, I know you know this too because I know you know

the algorithm people.

That's the worst thing you can actually do for the algorithm is to not have some type of

centralized theme because they don't know how to help you and believe it or not, the algorithm

is helping you because it's helping them.

Yeah.

Well, the algorithm wants to know who is your audience so that it can deliver what you're

making to that audience and then it's going to watch and see if that audience connects

with it and likes it.

And if so, it's going to expand and show it to more audience and then if you've really

killed it, it'll start to go beyond that audience.

So yeah, you know, people always feel like they're fighting the algorithm, but actually

the algorithm wants you to succeed.

It's trying to understand what you have to offer and who that audience is.

It's almost as if every post that you make has a total addressable audience and so it's

trying to figure out who they are and do they actually like the thing that you made.

But you're absolutely right.

People go off on random things.

I remember talking to a founder once she had a mental health company and she's like,

you know, I know I need to build a personal brand and so I should be talking about mental

health because that's my company, but I'm also really into crypto and I'm also really

and she started listing off like four other things she's really into it.

She's like, so can I just talk about all those and the answer is no, no, don't do that.

Talk about that with your friends, but you're building a business asset out there and that

business asset has to be clearly and easily and quickly understandable.

Here's another way of thinking about it.

It's not just a business asset.

When you start Instagram feed or decide to start treating your Instagram feed as a business

asset or a LinkedIn, but whatever what you're really doing is you are creating a small media

company.

You are.

You're creating a small media company and I will tell you from a full career in media.

I've worked at so many national magazines.

I've been running a national magazine for the last decade at entrepreneur.

I will tell you the magic formula for perfect media production, which you need because if

you're building a personal brand, you are a media producer.

And here it is.

The formula is it has to be the right balance of predictability and surprise.

That's it.

So let's break that down predictability.

Then somebody follows you.

They are doing that because you predictably deliver value that they want.

So they have an interest set.

They have a problem to solve and they see you as a solution.

And maybe that interest set is I'm interested in getting healthier and you create fitness

content.

Maybe that is, you know, I would like to be delighted during my day and you produce

comedy.

However it is, they are coming to you not because you put random things out, but rather because

they understand the value that they deal that they derive from you and that they believe

you're going to deliver predictably every single time.

But if you are too predictable, then you are boring and now they're not interested.

So now we go to surprise.

You have to deliver the thing that they expect, but in a new, interesting, unexpected way

all the time.

That's the reason that they're going to stand by and watch.

Now you can get this balance wrong.

You can be too predictable.

You're boring.

You can be too surprising and you're off putting because if me who I write and make content

for entrepreneurs and aspirational people building their careers, like I just why I want

you to do better and build things that you love.

That's my identity, basically.

If I started to share stuff about politics, sports stuff, it's just like off subject,

people would say, what is this?

I don't like this anymore.

It's sort of like picking up entrepreneur magazine and then opening the cover and discovering

that you've actually bought 17 magazine, like you're not interested in 17 magazine, I

want an entrepreneur magazine.

So it can't be too surprising.

It has to be the right balance of predictability and surprise.

So you need to think what do people expect from me?

What is the reason?

What is the problem that they have that they are coming to me to solve through content?

And then how do I reliably, predictably, but surprisingly deliver that to them?

If you can find that balance right, you will only build audience.

If you're watching or listening, I told you this was a master class.

You know, Jason, there's so much I want to talk to you about that I didn't even get

into because when I want to respect your time and to like, I don't like normal podcasts

because I don't know.

I was going to say, I'll be happy to give you more time, but I also agree that I love

your commitment, by the way, to the like commute length podcast.

So I can't listen to a two hour podcast.

I just can't.

I appreciate that it's fun to make, but I don't want to hear it.

No, no.

But what I didn't tell you was how you saved my business.

Yeah.

One of my businesses.

Right.

So I'm going to be quick because one of the books that I have behind me over there is

bill for tomorrow.

Yeah.

Man.

That's my book.

Right.

That book written by Jason Pfeiffer, that book, if you're entrepreneur, if you're a leader,

if you have thoughts of being entrepreneur leader, you need the book because it challenged

me again.

I don't know why you challenged me so much Jason, but you do.

So one of the words that I used to hate in my company was change, didn't allow people

to say it because as an entrepreneur, I said, you always have to evolve, right?

And I don't want to look at things as change because in my mind, change had a negative

connotation.

And I know that people on my, I know Chris Smith is listening to this right now and she's

probably laughing because she would call me not just a serial entrepreneur, but a serial

changer.

Like I was always tested quick.

And if it doesn't work, we don't need to be the dead horse, right?

Let's just move on to something else.

But you challenged me to embrace change, the word change because there are stages to

change.

And what I realized was I was just afraid of a couple of stages of change for my team.

Like I don't have an issue changing.

I'd never wanted to have the perception that Mick is quick to change.

Mick is going to let something happen and then he's going to change how we do things.

But then I embraced it because it's like, wait a second.

I'm supposed to do that as the leader, as the one that the buck stops with me.

I've got to be able to stop certain things from happening.

And it's okay for me to say it's a change.

I would love for you to take just a couple of moments.

This is my push for Bill for tomorrow because I think everyone needs it.

But you broke down the stages of change for me and it saved my business because I thought

I was not the fire all my employees.

Oh my God.

Uh, well, I'm so honored, man.

Yeah. Well, so the book is structured in this way, which I make this argument that all

change happens in four phases, which is panic, adaptation, new normal and wouldn't go back.

And the, that insight actually came out of COVID because I was watching all these,

all these people, literally everybody, literally everybody go through the same change at the same

time and then radically deviate and how they were responding to it.

And the most fascinating thing that I saw and I saw it over and over and over again

was when people would make a change as a last resort and then it turned out to be the best

thing for their lives or their businesses.

It was the thing that they had been avoiding.

The thing that they thought was a terrible idea that turned out to be the thing that they

needed all along, give you a quick example.

There was a woman named Lena and she has a store in Baltimore called Lena's Wigs.

And she used to operate this as a storefront, which meant that you know how storefront

works.

You can shop, people can walk in off the street, they can browse the wigs, Lena had an employee

who would greet people when they walked in off the street.

And there's another way to run this business and that is appointment only.

But Lena never wanted to do that.

Why would you do that?

Why would you make it harder for people to come into your store?

Instead, just keep the door open, let people walk in at will, appointment only, terrible

idea.

That's what she always thought.

And then COVID.

And she couldn't have people walk in off the street anymore and so she had to move

to an appointment only system.

And what she found was that sales increased and her customers were happier.

Why?

Why?

The answer is fascinating.

It is because Mick, do you know who does not buy wigs?

The answer is people who walk in off the street, they don't buy wigs, they browse wigs.

They're just kind of curious.

They like looking at them.

But the people who buy wigs are people who are buying them typically from very personal

reasons, usually health or religious.

And those people would far prefer a private experience where they are not surrounded by

random people off the street.

So here, Lena had structured her entire business and was paying an employee to serve the people

who were not her customer at the expense of the people who actually were her customer.

And she didn't realize this until she was forced into this change.

And so she told me about this and then a little while later, she told me this, she's

telling me, by the way, because I just love engaging with people.

This is, I think, just a core part of my job and it should be anybody's job is just constantly

engaging with people and hearing ideas and processing them, recognizing those patterns

that I talked about earlier.

So Lena, Lena tells me she's like, this is the business now, the business is appointment

only.

In fact, doing so much work that she was able to rehire that person, but who's now just

like managing appointments.

And she has leaned heavily into social media and into her website and into the things

that she never thought was relevant for her business.

And this is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about a wouldn't go back moment

that when we go through change, we go through that panic, oh my God, this whole thing is

going to fall apart.

And then we start to adapt because we have to.

And then we create some kind of new normal where we say, well, I guess this is the thing

that I'm comfortable with now.

But we finally, finally, finally can reach this thing where we say, I wouldn't go back

to the time before.

I wouldn't go back to the way it was before because I found something new and I found

something better.

And it came out of being challenged and it came out of having to explore and going outside

of my boundaries and doing the thing that I thought was so stupid that I would have never

considered it unless I was forced to.

And that should tell us something, make what it should tell us is that these opportunities

to reconsider what we used to think was impossible are always around us.

And we don't need to wait for a gigantic catastrophe to explore them ourselves.

Amen, amen, amen.

And what your book allowed for me wasn't for me.

It was for my team to understand the four stages of change because I couldn't articulate

it.

And what I personally feared as the owner was panic, but not for me, panic of my team.

And once I was able to articulate a change, the right way, the Jason fight for way as we

call it internally, which is, okay, here's what we're going to do and here's what you're

going to be panicked about.

So I would address the panic for them up front.

But then everybody now knows we're going to get to a point where we never go back.

And so I'm held accountable to that rule that if I introduce a new workflow, a new idea,

a new way of doing whatever it is, and not just me, but anyone on the team, we have to

show what this is going to look like.

We address panic up front.

Hey, we know it's shocking.

It's different.

It goes against the grain.

We got it.

You're going to be uncomfortable.

We know it.

But in 30 days, it's going to look like this.

And in 90 days, it's going to look like this in 120 days, you're never going to want to go

back to the way we're doing it now.

That's our rule.

That is our internal rule.

And that's why you saved my business.

I love to hear that.

I'm thrilled that I had any amount of impact on your business, but you have translated

that so perfectly because what you did there in the way in which you communicate that to

people is that number one, you saw them and you made sure that they see that you see

them.

You know, this is going to be hard that you're not expecting them to adopt it immediately.

You know, the number one mistake that people make leaders make when they're introducing

change to other people is that they forget that as the leader, they either created the

idea or they worked with someone else who did and they had time to adapt to it to feel

good about it to understand it before introducing it to their teams.

And now they're expecting their teams to just roll with it without taking that same time

to adjust to absorb.

We need to give other people the grace that we ourselves had when we were facing that

same change.

So number one, you are seeing that and you are giving that to them.

And I really appreciate that you are doing that.

And I'm sure everyone on your team does too.

And then the other thing that's so critical that you're doing is you are leading with both

vulnerability and a plan in that it's okay to say, you know, we're changing and this

is going to be kind of crazy.

We're going to go through some stuff and I can't predict exactly how it's going to turn

out.

That's a fine thing for a leader to say.

In fact, I think that it makes a leader relatable.

I think that leaders should show vulnerability, but you got to follow it up with and here's

what we're going to do.

Right.

You're going to be challenging, but I got a plan.

People will freak out if you just say, this is going to be challenging.

Good luck.

And then you like walk out through it.

They don't like that.

Nobody likes that.

But this is going to be challenging.

And I've got a plan.

People like that because now you are both the person that they can relate to.

And you're the person who's going to see it through.

And that is the kind of leader that you're describing for yourself right now.

And I really love to hear that.

Love it.

Everybody that listens or watches the show, you know, when I have a book that has impacted

either me personally or my businesses, I offer that book out.

So the first 20 people that message me and I don't care if it's LinkedIn and Instagram,

if you have myself text me, the first 20 people, I'm going to order that book for you and

have a ship to you.

Go for tomorrow because it's that impactful.

As a matter of fact, it's still impactful.

I'm going to do the first 40 because if you're an entrepreneur, you definitely need this

book.

Because society goes through now, I think, even internally for individual change, you

need that book.

But because it did so much for my teams and my business and now it's a core philosophy

that we have, like we truly embedded it into our change management process, that's what

we do with who we are.

The first 40 people I'm buying 40 copies.

DM this man right now.

I, and if you get the book, please reach out to me.

I want to know that you got it.

I want to know what you think about it.

Like I, I mean, I love everything about what you just, first of all, thank you for supporting

my work and supporting your listeners and sharing it truly.

I've used the word honored 17 times in this podcast, but it's just true.

But I'll tell you also what I just really love about the thing that you're doing here

right now is you're just encouraging that connection.

And that I think is the most important part about, you know, just go back to talking about

making things for other people, making content.

You're now making so much great content.

I hate the word content, by the way, because it just flattens everything out.

But I don't have a better word for it.

So I'll just keep using it is that it can't just be a broadcast vehicle.

It can't just be about making something and sending it out to people and then not caring

about what they think.

So what you're doing here and what everyone should do, what you're modeling right now is

creating incentives and reasons for people to reach out to know that you're someone

that they're not just going to listen to, but they can connect with that they can connect

with literally, but also emotionally.

I have people who buy something from me because they tell me three years ago, you responded

to a DM that I sent.

It matters so much.

It is literally the easiest thing to do in the world is to just have nice exchanges with

people.

If somebody reaches out, reach back, reply, give people reasons to, if you run that bakery

in your community, give people reasons to reach out, to comment on the things that you're

you post and then you have to respond back to just come into the store and say, hello,

anything that you can do to facilitate, not content, a connection is the foundation of

your growth tomorrow.

So Mick, again, you have modeled that and I really appreciate it.

Well, you just made my day.

I'm recording that and I'm taking that everywhere with me to say, you know, just say, you

know, all right, Jason's getting you out, where can people find and follow you?

I mean, I know you're Jason Fiverr, but where do you want people to connect me?

Sure.

So here's the number one thing that I'd love for you to do, which is actually subscribe

to my newsletter.

One thing better each week, one way to be more successful and satisfied, build a career

or company that you love and you can get that at one thing better.

Email.

That's a web address.

So you just plug that into a browser, one thing better.

Email.

I'm also very active on LinkedIn and Instagram and I would love for you to find me.

And if you DM me, I will respond.

If you tag me and tell me what you loved about this episode, tag me, tag Mick, I guarantee

you I will respond.

I'm watching that stuff all the time and I love making that connection.

So thank you.

Jason, you're amazing, brother, again, you mean more to me than you'll ever know.

I'm honored that you spent time on the show.

Love you, bro.

And to all the viewers and listeners, remember, you'll be cause is your superpower.

Go and release it.

That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged.

If this episode moved you and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen, share

it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review.

So more people can find there because I'm really rush.

And until next time, stay driven, stay focused and stay unplugged.