Defining Success for Yourself Before the World Defines It for You with Shay Cochrane

0:00I hope that's the encouragement that people here is just to define it for themselves and remove all of the rest of that guilt. Let other people define what it looks like for them, but define for yourself what winning in any of those areas looks like. Hey guys, welcome back to the something new show. I know it's been a minute since I've released an episode, but today is a worthy one because I am here in the studio, virtually connecting with my very good friend, Shay Cochran, in Tampa, Florida. I'm going to go way back. She is just for you guys that don't know her. She is a 20 year entrepreneur married for a long time, has two teenage girls. She's had multiple businesses, juggled a lot of things, business coach, Bible teacher, so many cool things about her. But our families have become good friends too, not just Shay and I. We met years ago in a mastermind together and have stayed really in touch and it's been so cool to see. Even from we were joking about five years ago, an introduction might look like to like today because as women in our 40s, we are evolving and constantly taking all the beautiful

1:07things that we've done in life to date and I feel like making it even more beautiful and offering it in a different way to help people and come alongside them. It's shaping up life experiences and giving back. And one of the things I think you would probably agree is that we connect on the most is kind of being able to use the amazing lessons learned and things that we've paid to learn, things we've been gifted to learn and mentoring others in business or family life or whatever it might be and say let me get back. It doesn't get you so excited. Oh my gosh, so much so. And I mean, not to go really deep really quickly, but I think when you talk about identity, it trickles into all the different areas of life. So you and I are just like doing our thing, but we're doing it as mom, we're doing it as friends, we're doing it as business owners, like we're living out the unique person that God's made each of us to be in a lot of different contexts and it doesn't fit tidally into a concise introduction.

2:10Correct. Well, first of all, thank you for joining me today. It's an honor to have you. I'm so excited to be here. I know, I'm like, we can talk a shop a little bit, but tell us a little bit to kick it off. Like what season you feel like best describes yourself in right now? Like what is the Shay Cochran and Graham and the kiddos? Like what season are you in and what does life kind of look like in a day to day? Yeah, so we are in a very interesting season in that we have two teenage daughters and both of us are business owners. If you're not familiar with my husband, he's also business owner, business coach, author, speaker. So we have our own things, but we've both been entrepreneurs our entire married life of 20 plus years. I think we'll be 21 years this year. But our kids are getting older, right? So now it's kind of like for adult sish in the house. You know that feeling and there at least our oldest is on the cusp of moving off and deciding whether or not you're going to college, where you're supposed to go to college.

3:10So our family, our season of family life is really transitioning. It's funny because Graham and I were talking the other day about, you know, we don't know where we're going to be five years from now, 10 years from now because the kids will be somewhere and maybe they'll have kids, maybe they won't, like maybe we'll want to move to be near them. Like we're just in a, we're re entering a transitional phase of life where we just want to be really flexible and we want to be doing, we have both have the freedom to do work that we really love that inspires us and we get to do it on our own terms and from home and that kind of thing. We're kind of entering a new exciting season where it's like, I don't know where the kids will be. I don't know what they're going to get into, who they're going to become, where they're going to settle down and that will determine a lot of, you know, the five year, 10 year, 15, what 15 years from now looks like. So it's exciting. We've, you know, we've been in the, in the grind of parenting for a long time and we're kind of coming out of that and entering into a season of unknown and new adventures and

4:10we'll be empty nesters in three years from now, which is crazy with a, hopefully Lord willing, a lot of life ahead of us. So it's an interesting season. Yeah. And, and also I would say both building too. Like, both you and your husband, even though a lot of what you're doing is like just another layer to what you've been doing for 20 some years, but I see both of you guys also in a building season professionally. So what would you say at home that you're doing to kind of give each other the space to build business again, build more like layers, maybe not necessarily more, it's maybe replacing some of the other things you were doing is so I know you're very, very cautious about the amount of time allocated to your work week. So I wouldn't say you've added more to your work week, but perhaps I'm assuming you've kind of switched, swapped out some of the things you were doing with some new passion. But how do you guys make that work during the week as grams building stuff, your building

5:14stuff like talk to us a little bit about some practicalities so that you still honor that's something we love hearing from you, but honor your value system when it looks at your week, but you're both building things again. It's just so exciting, but I'm like, oh wait. So yeah, Mike, with that time, how are you organizing your week? Give some of our listeners, you know, the working parents that are both doing a thing, give them some frameworks that maybe throughout the week you've done so that you both can do the thing you're called to do. Yeah, I think you set it up in a good way in that we're, it's an exchange, right? We're adding new things and we're getting rid of old things constantly. And so for Graham, that looks like he might shut down a financially successful program to start something else or he might pivot from this way of offering his, you know, coaching or this way of doing what he was doing to step into something new. And the same thing for me, because like you said, we both want to be really concise with work hours. Both of us want to have the most impact we can in the least amount of hours that it

6:18takes to do it. And so that looks different for him and I with the exception of we always want to be home in the evenings and on the weekends together. And then we also want a date day on Fridays. I want a little more free time than that. So I only like to work like two or three days a week. He usually works a little few more days a week than I do. So within those confines, we're constantly adding and taking away, adding and taking away. Like, okay, if we want to do this thing, we got to be willing to let this opportunity die or maybe this pursuit die to make space for this new thing that we want to do or this new iteration or the opportunity to do something in a different way. So it's constantly assessing and reassessing what do we want to do? What are we hoping to build? What is it going to take? What are we willing to give up as a result of that? And then how can we keep, how can we make that fit into the time that we want to give it so that we have our evenings and weekends available for what's the most precious thing

7:19to both of us, which is cultivating this little family that we have at this point only for a few more years left until they're out of the house. So it's as you said, it's a give and take, it's a letting things die, it's a killing things that are successful in order to build new things, do new things, all with our eyes just kind of focused on the health of the family, the health of the marriage, the connectedness of the family, and putting that first relationship with God, putting all those things first, and then making all those other decisions about what, then what fits. You know, second day of the week. How often would you say, oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, I was just going to say, it makes me think of that analogy of the jar and putting the stones in and then pouring the sand in around the, the stones. Like, if you pour all the sand in first, you can't really fit the big stones into the jar, but if you put the stones in first, then you can fit a lot, you can fit what's left around it. And that's kind of how we look at what are our values, what matters to us. Make sure that those are accounted for first, marriage, family, friendships, community,

8:22health, walk with the Lord. Like, let's make sure that's all intact. And then, like, whatever else fits in is what we'll build. And then we'll determine like how we build it. Totally. I was curious to how often you guys talk about ripping away or replacing. Is it like an annual, like, do you commit to something for a year at a time, or do you do it even more often than that? Have you, have you found a rhythm? Or is it honestly just like based on like the moment you feel there's a change? You're like, I need to make a change. This isn't working anymore. We're stopping this offer or we're changing this situation. Or is there a conscious time dedicated, maybe like I said, once a year or something where you say, okay, is this what we're going to commit to? Whether it fails or not, we're going to give it a whole X amount of months trial run before we give up on that part of our life. Yeah, that's a good question. I would say it's a little bit of both and. I mean, you are both of our families are big proponents of a family vision weekend or

9:23something like that at the beginning of the year, at the end of the year, too. Kind of assess the year, look ahead at the next year. So some of that stuff comes up then, you know, like, there's been years where we're just like, that was way too much trouble. We just can't do that. It has too much of a negative impact on the family. Like, that was exhausting. And so we'll kind of assess and plan differently for the year ahead. So there are touch points like that, but I would say we're kind of always reassessing these things. Like, we'll look at it. Maybe the summer, we'll look back at the summer and be like, okay, that was just too much travel, too many things crept in. Or that felt really good. Like, we were home a lot of the weekends. Like, that felt really good. I think we could add a little bit more in the fall. Like, we're kind of constantly assessing and also having those larger touch points to kind of more thoroughly and honestly look at the whole thing. Also, every night in bed, I mean, that's what we were always. I don't know about you guys, but all the time, that's the conversation. Like, wow, that was a lot. That was a lot of committing to that. Let's not do that next month.

10:24Or like, Jordan will be like, that was your working genius, but definitely not mine. Like, well, the participant and some faded. I'm like, that was so great. And he's like, not so much. Or vice versa. And we also kind of joke about FOMO versus JOMO where, you know, some personalities in America have a fear of missing out and they want to go to the fun things. That would be you. That would be you. But actually, Shay, it's not as much anymore. Like, I would say, as I've gotten older, I have been like, hey, let's just stay home. I'm tired. But you're correct. Like, for all the many years, it was definitely more me to say, oh, it would be so fun. But Jordan likes to use the word JOMO. He's like, I have the joy of missing out. He's like, I love it. But, you know, so funny. Usually, there's one that married the other. But I would love to hear, like, in Shay's perspective, you know, we could have glanced. Like, how much priority is given to your work?

11:27How much time and priority is given to you? You've already clarified family is nights and weekends. Your marriage gets Friday. It sounds like, but like, obviously, you see each other every day too. But where does friendship fall into the seven days? Yeah. Yeah. How do you allocate the right amount of time? Because I think friendship sometimes takes the place of work or kids. And you know what I'm saying? In the evenings, a lot of people want to hang out with me and I'm like, no, that's when I get to see my kids. So I'm curious, where do you plug in friendship? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to answer the bigger question to get to that specific question. The way that I think about it, we all have values. And the problem is usually that values are in constant tension with each other, which is what you're describing. Like, well, I want to hang out with my friends because I value friendship, but I also want to spend time with my kids because I value family time. Our values are constantly in tension with each other. So it's not enough to just say, well, I value marriage and I value health and I value

12:28parenting and I value friendships and I value my walk with God. And then they just kind of stay all on this same horizontal plane because they're going to constantly feel in tension. You're going to constantly feel guilty, right? You're always then choosing one over the other. So I think we have to take it a step farther and we have to actually prioritize or like rank order our values. So I'm very clear about the rank order of values. So where does, where do the kids fall in relation to the marriage? Where does friendship fall in relation to work or in relation to family time, right? These are all, if I have six or seven values that I would say I kind of center my life around, they go in a very specific order. So that does help me determine like, okay, if I have this gap of time, it's either this or this and I rank order them in this way. So it's, that means it's going to be this. But the other thing that I really try to do is value stack all the time, right? And value stacking to me is like you're taking things that you value. Maybe it's wellness, marriage, parenting, and being outside, right?

13:32Let's say physical health, okay? Those are four different values. And what can I do in my day to value stack those things? So an example might be every Thursday night you've got soccer practice with the kids. So instead of just letting the kid go to soccer practice and you stay home and binge watch Netflix, which is awesome sometimes, why not go to soccer practice, commit to going to soccer practice every Thursday together as a couple. And when you're at soccer practice, walk around the track as a couple, connect, catch up. You're going to be outside. So you've got a positive deposit in the marriage. You're spending that time together instead of like bleach your butt on your phone. You're walking, you've just committed to walk around. You have that value of being outside. You have the value of being together as a family because you're riding together to and from practice. And you have the, you're putting a positive deposit in the area of wellness. You're moving your body, taking a walk instead of sitting on the bleachers. So I have mapped out my days and my weeks in a way that I'm making a positive deposit

14:34in all of the areas that I value every single, almost every day, certain values every single day. So I have a positive deposit in walk with God, positive deposit in marriage, positive deposit with the kids and positive deposit in health. Those are like my top four values. Those get a positive deposit every single day, some prioritizing that. Otherwise some things like friendship are like a once a week deposit or two or three times a week deposit. But I'll still value stack. So it's like, yeah, and you probably do this too. This is something that a lot of us are already doing intuitively. I will go for a walk and I'll return vox or messages on Wednesdays or that kind of thing. On Wednesday mornings, I'm with friends because I'm a part of a women's business leader group here. On the Saturday once a month, I'll meet for coffee with a friend. Every month I'll have a phone call, do my friendship call with Elise. Like I have certain things baked in, but all of my values are being seated into either

15:35daily, every other day, every few days. And I'm value stacking. Like every hour of my day that I can, I'm naturally value stacking so that all the things I value get accounted for, even if it's not every day they get accounted for in the week or in the month, if that makes sense. It's a very like, it's a big master plan around that. Yeah, what I hear you saying too is that friendship is scheduled, which I don't have a problem with that. Some people are like, that's not organic. And I'm like, no, it could be very organic and scheduled at the same time. But it also sounds like it's not in the nights or the weekend, typically. One coffee date a month on a Saturday, but most of the time you're trying to catch up with a friend during the school day when the kids are not with you. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's very loose in vox or in voice messages. Like I voice message a lot. So I have a lot of friends that I'm kind of voice messaging with throughout the week. But I'm usually answering those not on my work days. So I'm usually answering those on Monday or Wednesday.

16:37That's not a rule. That's just kind of how I've organized life. So Tuesdays and Thursdays are my really head down work days. And I don't really even look at my phone that entire day. So I'm just naturally responding to messages more so Mondays, Wednesdays, that kind of thing. And then the weekends are more so with family. And then I leave certain blocks of days open. So for example, Wednesdays, I leave as a personal day slash friend day in a way. So I'm with people on Wednesday mornings, but I always leave Wednesday afternoons are just pretty open. I keep them really unscheduled. But that'll be the time that if someone's like, hey, do you want to grab lunch? Then I'm like, absolutely, let's grab lunch or let's grab coffee on Wednesdays. That's kind of my open day for that. So it's like the blocks are scheduled. I know where I can put that stuff. And then obviously, you know, life. So I'm not a very rigid person actually. I just have kind of these certain big sweeping mental frameworks in place to make so that I know that I actually am making time for those values.

17:39If I say I value friendship, then I want to prove it to myself by having blocks that are actually for those types of things. Well, and I just don't want, you know, these people that are listening to like wake up one day. And it's like kids are out of the house. And it's like, oh man. I went 20 years building a business, but I didn't make time for either my spouse or my friends because that is going to be a really hard reengagement cycle for both of those relationships. If you've just been head down building a business, then off work helping the kids, which is so important. But I do feel like that is like, don't let those totally drop off with building the business, you know, because when the kids are gone, there's going to be a relational emptiness that you don't want to, I mean, I don't want to have, I am very close friends with my kids, but I'm also like, I don't want to be like, you guys are my only friends, like I want to have friends that are in real life friends.

18:40And so if it is a value and you are so busy with work right now and then you come home and all you got energy for is the kids, which I can relate to that so much, I'm trying to build in the discipline of this one like our, like you said, maybe initiating text messages that are thought of, thought of persons, like I'm thinking of this person, I want to send it a text while I'm thinking of them or, I mean, Zoom calls, I know it sounds so crazy, but Zoom calls with friends are great because a lot of times friends aren't local. And you don't have to travel. You can just see each other's face and read how they're doing and you could do a Zoom call or a FaceTime call. I mean, those are just really cool things that you can do to stay connected even in a season where you don't have all the time in the world to go out on a weeknight. You know, like it's just not very feasible, at least for me in this season. I'm going to football game, Shay. And so like at that though, to your point, that's a cool value stat because it's outside.

19:44I'll try to make sure I be line it over to a mom or two that I want to just give her a hug, check in on her, have a five minute conversation, it's better than nothing and you have to be intentional because if you do show up and you just sit there and reprieve, then you didn't value stack, right? You just like, you maybe got outside and you shut up for your kid, but you could also say how to a friend or talk to your husband about his day. You know, like there's other ways to really make that count. And that's why I think for me at the end of the day, I want to live out what I value. I want to be winning in all of my values. I want to be moving towards goals in all my values. So if one of my values is I want to have really rich deep friendships, then where does that live on my calendar? It doesn't mean that you're scheduling friendships and they have to fit in a tight box, right? That's not what life is like. When friends need to talk, they need to talk, right? We've got to make ourselves available. But at a very bare minimum, I have to know that time for friendship exists on my calendar and that this is what it's going to look like or it's not going to happen at all.

20:44And I think deep friendships make us a better business owner. I don't think it detracts from business. I think it makes us more mentally and emotionally healthy, more lighthearted, gives us perspective, right? Like sometimes we need to be either with another business owner, you know, knowing what's going on in their business or with non-business owners that are, you know, just it gives us a good perspective of, oh man, my world does not revolve around my business. This is so refreshing. So it's easy to say that. I think we're late on those topics. Yeah, it's easy to say that. I think I have to because we'll all just, I mean, those of us that love our work, it's just going to be very easy if we haven't decided other words to just drift always back into work, whether that's on a phone, on a laptop, at your desk. So I want to know that I've built my week and my days in a way that I'm guaranteed to dedicate time to those things and to seed into those things. So that's where that comes from.

21:45Yeah. Well, I mean, Graham, I have the gift of having a husband who's super communicative. So we don't have to really work hard to have things to talk about. We don't actually have a set of questions. There have been seasons where we've done like fanos. I don't know if you've ever heard of that or like, you know, I know people that have kind of a set of four or five questions that make sure that they're covering a variety of topics. I think with Graham and I, it's all over the place. And we tend to go pretty deep. So we're always checking in on how each other is doing spiritually, how each other is doing

22:48in terms of joy and enjoyment and fun, you know, what's happening that's challenging. What are you really excited about? What are you grateful for? Like we're kind of always running through a variety of informal questions, like not very formal questions. There's almost, there's not a lot that we're not trying to cover in conversation. We've also loved now the kids, Chloe can drive to school. So now the kids are driving themselves to school. And all of a sudden this year we have the first, I'd say like 30 or 45 minutes, we'll just say goodbye to them and then go pour another cup of coffee and sit on the couch and chat. And both of us will, you know, get into work around maybe 830 or 9 or that kind of thing. But that's, those conversations are like, what's God telling you? What's God telling you? You will have both just done a quiet time. What are you going on today? Like what are you excited about? What can I pray for you about? That's kind of our usual morning conversation. And then, you know, date nights are just all over the place.

23:51Now from a friendship perspective, Elise and I specifically will usually touch on marriage. Otherwise we leave the floor open to whatever the other person wants to talk about. So the way her and I do a mentorship, we take 90 minutes, we split it in half and we each during our time can talk about whatever we want to talk about. So we might give a general overview, but then it might be that we're talking about marriage. You know, I just really want to hear something that we're experiencing, what's your take, what do you think, or maybe it's business or maybe it's, you know, something else. There's no topic that's really off limits there. And we just hear each other out and kind of problem solve and provide mentorship. Is it just output where you're just like, Erin or is it like, what do you think? Is it, what do you think? We're both coming like, here's the situation. What are you seeing? What do you think I should be considering? What's your take on this? What am I missing? What am I overlooking?

24:52What am I not, what am I not considering? What have you tried that's helpful? It's very much like a, here's what I'm going through. What's your take on it? What are you hearing me say, like that kind of thing? We don't have set questions, but that's kind of just the spirit of that relationship. You know, there's, there's that end of things. And her and I will message in between that, but that is on our schedule. It is pre-scheduled. We have the next years booked out, right? It's the last Thursday of every month, and we tried to never cancel unless we absolutely have to. But then I have friends like, you know, Jamie Cross, we have a mutual friend and Jamie Cross and her and I will vox, or will not vox, or will voice text 30 minute messages. And it might take five days to respond to them, but the next time I'm out on a walk or sitting on out of my back porch, all listen and respond. And it's, it's unhurried. I have a lot of those relationships where it's not in, I just don't think deep relationships happen in one minute sound bites. I think they need time. And so I have no problem with being sent an eight minute voice message or a 21 minute

25:57voice message. And as long as you know, I'll get to this like when I can and I'll respond. I thought you're even when I can't do this to you. You said I'm your girl for a long, I'm Rachel, you know Rachel. Also, she's a long, she's a long voice messenger as well. And we've just created space for that. Like hey, we're not going to have depth in in little sound by, you know, 30 second messages. It's going to take time. Life is complex. Emotions are complex. There's layers to everything. So if we want that depth, we've got to be willing to make space for it. So we'll listen and return messages when we're driving or you know, just in the in moments that don't take away from anything else. And I feel like I have the most rich relationships now that I've ever had in my entire life. Praise the Lord. While building a business. So it is possible. It is possible. Wow. That says a lot. No, that's really cool. I will tell you that I have a friend that I do this with when we are together and we probably see each other four times a year. And it's not like a scheduled, oh, every quarter.

26:58It's just more like that's about how often we see each other. Yeah. We'll spend a whole day doing what you do in 90 minutes for it's one of us get the first half or the second half of the day. We do a whole day like that. But you're making me go like, oh, I think it would be more fun to do more regularly. We just do it when we're together and we go, okay, which day is going to be our like day. Yeah. And it's been totally working for the season I'm in and that's cool. But I also am like, I love how creative that's another alternative is like putting a data on the calendar and you guys don't even live in the same city and you make it happen over Zoom or something. Which is cool. And we're both busy, right? Like she's busy. That's on my work day. So I have to just I give up that afternoon 90 minutes of work and she does the same. And we've been doing it for years. But it's so interesting that this topic has come up because I do think that this is something that women are age are really struggling with. I should say entrepreneurs are age are what I'm here most often is that they're lonely

28:00and they don't have good friendships. And that they feel like they have to choose the success of the business or good meaningful friendships. I mean, I also selfishly built a loom so that I would have friendships like I built the network so that I would regularly be around women that inspire me and encourage me and that I want to be with. So I cheated the system a little bit after we were you know, we were no longer in that mastermind that you and I were both in where we were surrounded with a lot of amazing people, a lot of amazing friendships. But I kind of cheated in that way and built something that would surround me with people that I love. Which nope, that's fine. I don't know, shame there. That's awesome. I would say I don't always feel like I have to sacrifice the business. I'm just being intimate here. I feel like I have to choose between time with my family or time with my friends if it's the nights that I get invited to things. And so I feel really grateful for the people in my community that keep me on the group

29:00text and keep inviting me to things in the evening that I normally don't go to. But the reality is it's because that's my time with my family. So for me, friendship is more easily attained in a one hour eight to nine a.m. Let's knock it out. I know that sounds like pressure cooker. But I'm like, this is what I got. So like, if you want to hang like this is the hour or it's two to three right before a carpal pickup or something like that. Because once I'm off, I feel the pressure of like, if I go hang out with you, then that was the time to see my kids. So that's just a working mom or a non-markie mom to be honest with you. If your kids are in school, like we're all probably dealing with that evening pressure of like, that's your time with them to connect. And then if you're going out with friends all the time, it's very hard to stay present at home. And it also depends on the age of your kids too. Because like, I feel like I'm living a double life with my kids. I have two older offers that are like very busy.

30:02And then I have two little's that are still home every night. And so it's like my older's could care less if I'm at home because they're at all the things. But my little two still need homework and dinner and tuck ins and they need all of that still. So, you know, it's not going to be here forever. And they're going to get busy too one day and I just got to lock in, you know. And that means my friendship is more limited to the daytime space. But, um, no it's attention. Like you said, it is definitely attention, but it doesn't have to be as long as you plan it out, which I think that's what your message is, right? It's like it doesn't have to be attention if you plan it out. Yeah, absolutely. And like what you've done, you've just decided you have put an order to your values. Friendship and family is not on the same plane. And that's a beautiful choice. And so you know, like, hey, I'm going to give up. I'm not going to feel guilty about it because I know that I'm choosing an alignment with my values. I'm going to be with the kids in the evenings and in the weekends.

31:02And I think that's beautiful. That's the goal to me is like to be able to seed into both of those things and not feel guilty about the way that I'm doing it. Like that's what I'm after. So that's how I've tried to set that. Could you, because I think, uh, when I think of you, Shay, is like somebody just so organized and put together between her health and her, you know, complete, like you are so dialed into health, you're so dialed into marriage and your business and your friends and all the thing. And so you tell us of a time that a story of when it maybe didn't go so well for you, that maybe you've never shared before. It's like a fun story that our listeners can be like, okay, Shay is human too. She had a time that it didn't go so well for her because it is inspiring to watch you. And I hope that people follow along in your journey and stay connected with Shay. But I'm like, could you just for a second maybe tell us of a time that it didn't go so well for you and, you know, you learned from it though.

32:05Like it was still at least a learning lesson. Well, first of all, I think it's very funny that you think that I'm so put together. I think the people who are here witnessing my life, I don't know that they would say the same thing. So I'll receive the compliment that it all feels. I would say I am intentional about what I want. How the execution of that is going to be very human and messy. But okay, I don't know if there's like a one particular story. I think there's a lot of things that I don't even attempt to do well. Being involved at school is one of those things. Could not care less. I will duck and run when I see the PTA moms. I will dodge the sign up emails. I will, I mean, I just, that's just not an area that I'm trying to win in and I'm totally fine with that. So if you ask the other moms at my school, they would be like, that's a girl.

33:06She just does not, you know, all the other moms are on top of it, all the other moms, they're like, they're doing all the things and they're all the events and they've volunteered for everything and they're, you know, and I'm trying to show up really well in my kids' lives. Not through the PTA, it's not through class volunteering, it's not through being the chaperone, it's not through, you know, any of that. There's just whole areas of life that I just opt out of. Like I just don't, I just can't, I don't have the energy to be supermom, so I'm not even going to try. I'd say that's one area that I just entirely opt out of. I mean, physical, physical health, I like, I do the bare minimum that I can possibly do. I hate working out, so I'll do it two days a week. Like that's it. That's not like a massive commitment or a lot of discipline and I have to will myself in both of those days to make it happen. But I'm like, what's the lowest barrier?

34:08What's that term? Like what's the minimum viable product of that? Like what's the least I can do for any kind of return? Yeah, so I'm just, I'm not often the mom that has it all together by any stretch and my kids would tell you that. They'd be the first to tell you that. But am I present in their life? Yeah. Am I winning any other awards as a mom? Nope. Not other than just how my kids I think feel loved by me, but it's not through, it's not, not feel like you're traditional ways of proving that you're a good mom. So yeah, I don't have like a, I don't have a very specific story, probably because all every day feels messy in its own way. Every day I'm just completely opting out of looking impressive or winning in a lot of different areas to just be present. I mean, I feel every day at responding to text messages would be another area of life that I just like, I don't feel like that counts as real communication. And so I might have like a seven day return time on a text, maybe even a two week return

35:12time on a text. And I just, I'm not trying to win that game. I'm trying to be super present with the people that are right in front of me, but I'm probably going to disappoint you as a friend if you're waiting for me to like return a text message. So I don't know, there, none of it feels overly impressive and none of it feels overly messy, but there are certainly a lot of areas that I'm just like, nope, I'm just, I don't care to win that game. Which is one of the things I think I appreciate the most about you as your friend of many years is that there's a like a lot of you have zero fear of what other people think most of the time. I'm not saying you're perfect at it, but I'm saying more than most women I know, you've dialed into like, hey, I'm just going to live my life and do the best I can. And what other people think about it, they'll just have to figure it out, you know? And I'm inspired by that, Shay. I'm very inspired by that.

36:13You've held true to like who you really are all the years that I've known you. And I was just thinking about how we used to do, you know, a weekly call with a small group of women where we were talking about all these things. And you're literally walking in the same exact format and value system that you were years ago. And you might have a different project on your plate or a different age group or kids in different scenarios, but like you're just so like this is who I'm going to be. And if you don't like that, I don't reply to you in seven days. Like it's fine. Like, and I just think that's really inspiring and more women can probably link up to that mindset instead of worrying, you know, what might come of the other person's perspective of us, right? It's like do your race. Like do the thing you're called to do. But then at the end of the day, it's kind of like some people might link up with that and think that's great. And other people might be like, not a fan. And that's okay.

37:14Like at the I really want at the end of the day, the people closest to me to think, hey, mom, those people were locked like she was locked in for me. Because she those are the rules that we can't, we cannot delegate. Like nobody else can be our kids mom's and nobody else can be our husband's wives. But we can delegate like you said, other things or not even delegate, but not sign up for the other things that don't have to be us. And the whole world wants to dictate for you what being a good mom looks like or being a good business owner looks like, right? So the the culture around you is going to say being a good mom is being at every school event, being at every game, being at, you know, volunteering for all the things or your kids looking really put together, like right there, they're all your kids look snatched every time they go out or whatever the kid term for that would be. You know, your kids looking good, your kid, the world is going to try to define for you

38:15what being a good mom looks like. And it's going to eat us alive unless we determine for ourselves. No, my version of success as a mom is my, I have open lines of communication with my kids. They trust me. We're talking all the time. We're talking about all different things. I'm there for the highs and the lows of their day, right? Like we're regularly eye to eye. We're regularly sharing a meal, game time to like I've decided what winning as a mom looks like. And I, so to the outside world and to the people that have other expectations, I'm probably look like a hot mess because I'm just not doing any of the other crap that I call a crap. It might not mean it's not a crap to them. Okay. I'm not doing any of the other things that aren't in my definition of being a good mom. And the same thing for business. Like there are so many people who will say, well, if you're, I mean, a good business owner means you're everywhere you could possibly be. You're taking all the opportunities. You're quick available, right? You're available to respond, available via email, available, you know, when somebody

39:17needs something, you're all, everyone is going to define for you what being a big, a good business owner looks like unless you define it for yourself. And I'm just not willing to let other people define that for me. So there's a lot that even from a business perspective, a lot of people could look at how I do business and say, oh, that's irresponsible, lazy, ineffective, inefficient. That's not going to get you anywhere, you know, because I'm not fitting this mold of what a good business owner looks like or would be doing. But I've decided what I, what matters to me and what business success looks like to me. I'll just be unapologetic about that. And that's going to free me up from trying to live out somebody else's definition of a good entrepreneur or a good mom or a good wife or any of these things. So I hope that's the encouragement that people hear is just to define it for themselves and remove all of the rest of that guilt, let other people define what it looks like for them, but define for yourself what winning in any of those areas looks like and get busy

40:17doing that. There's, and that'll be enough to keep you busy. Yeah. Well, Anna, I was going to say, and to check in with those people that you're the mom for to say, like, hey, am I showing up for you in a way that matters to you? Yeah. Like, I'll always ask my kids, like, hey, what are the most important things that I attend this year? Because you know, I'm not going to be able to go to everything, but I want to prioritize and block out all of your most important things. Or how can I show up for you? More, what do you need from me? Because their opinion is really the only one that I care about. We would say has my ear. So, you know, same for husband and friend, right? So, the rest of it doesn't, the rest of the people, like you said, it doesn't matter as long as the person you're trying to show up for, it's like to them, you are present to them, you are there for them. So, I hope, like you said, I hope the message people are getting is like, it could look totally different for you, for me, for the person listening. And as long as the people that we love most feel like we're showing up for them in the

41:17most important ways, that's what matters. And all of them are going to be different. I mean, you know, every one of your children is going to be different and is going to need different things. Even your spouse is going to need different things in different seasons, your friendships are going to need different things in different seasons. So, back to your first question, it's like, we got to constantly be circling back and asking the question again, like, what do you need? What's meaningful for you in this season? Before we exhaust ourselves in 100 things that aren't actually even meaningful for them. So, good. Okay, Shay, if people want to stay connected with you, where can they follow along? Give us your contact information for the best place that you hang out online. Yeah, okay, I'm on Instagram as Shay Cochran at Shay Cochran. I probably post once every three weeks, so I don't know that I'm really super active there, but you can find me. I am there occasionally. I'm a Lume Network. If you're a female Christian entrepreneur doing at least six figures in annual revenue, then you might be interested in checking out a Lume Network.

42:18You can find that at ILUMeNetwork.com on Instagram as the website or a Lume Network on Instagram. And that's really it. I have a podcast. I mean, you're an OG at the podcasting. So, if you're a business owner and you want biblical business strategy, then you can listen to the Better Way to Build podcast that comes out on Mondays, just like a good encouragement, resetting, refocus, like helping you to learn how to better partner with God in business. It's usually mercifully short, so if that sounds like fun to you, then that would be coming out there on the Better Way to Build podcast. I love it. Well, it has been a joy to catch up with you. I'm so thankful that you took the time to be on the something new show today, and I'm looking forward to all the good things ahead. Thank you, friend. I love getting to see your face, always beautiful. You're always such a gracious host, and I value you any time that I get to hang out with you. Same. All right, you guys. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us today. Bye-bye.