Democrats surge in polls as Trump pushes to make midterms about himself

0:00One did work become so much work. The meeting about the meeting, the hundreds of files to find one insight, setting aside the things you want to do for the things that pop up. Your workday's gone. But what if the insight surfaced itself? Or you could ship the deck without the distractions? Gemini Enterprise helps you get that done. It's AI that knows your business with agents that take stuff off your plate. Make work less work with Gemini Enterprise from Google Cloud. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start, Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between Matt Paint Finish and Satan, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. The Vice President said yesterday that he would not describe the conflict with the Ron as a war. But the US resumed strikes for the first time in recent weeks. Can you explain to the American people, if this is not a war, what exactly is it?

1:02Well, I'll tell you what, a lot of people don't call it a war. I call it a military conflict because it's small potatoes for us. It's not a big thing. We did Venezuela, and we did this. And Venezuela, we lost nobody, and this we lost 18 people. And Vietnam, we lost 100,000 people, and another conflict, you lost tens of thousands of people. I can understand what he's saying. It's a military conflict, but it's very intimate. And I could see somebody not calling it a word. That is how President Trump characterized the situation with Iran to reporters on Friday. Now he's back to calling it a war, and one that we have not won. We'll go through that news, social media posts. Speaking of the President's online activity, the Canadian Prime Minister said last week, he would start negotiating again with the Trump administration when the memes stopped. But the President yesterday posted this AI-generated map

2:04of North America. It comes as tariffs from Canada are now in effect, targeting roughly $20 billion of imported goods from the United States. Meanwhile, we've reached the post-Labor Day push for the midterm elections. We're going to go through new polling on the key races that could determine control of Congress next year. And good morning, and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, September 8th. It's good to be back together again, along with Joe, William Me. We have the co-host of our 8am hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lamir, co-host of the Restus Politics Podcast, the BBC's Cate Kay, and columnist and associate editor at the Washington Post, David Ignatius is with us as well. Well, you know, you get after Labor Day, Willie, and you get a lot of things going, of course. The penit race is just about to start in baseball, college, footballs coming back. And of course, the US open.

3:04We've had a great start to the US open as it moves to a pretty exciting conclusion. But, man, it looks like Tiafou, one of the great stories of this open so far, just unbelievable. This immigrant, this man from an immigrant family, just really captivating the entire tennis world. And certainly everybody in New York that's watching the open. Yeah, a lot of Americans left in the tournament, which obviously makes it a lot more fun for those of us who are fans, particularly in this week, as we move toward the quarter finals, the semi-finals in this weekend's finals. You've got a bunch of Shelton, you've got Tiafou on the women's side, you've got Gula Coco Gough is still there. So you've got all the American headliners, are most of them anyway, still playing, which makes this week. It's just a fun time. It feels like once we move past Labor Day, it's the important part of the US open. As you said, the penit races heat up with, I know you're excited about this in Lameerius too, the return tonight, Joe, of Aaron Judge after three months away.

4:05Yeah, how exciting. Yeah, that's great. The Yankees clinging to a two-game lead, by the way, over the Red Sox, who keep going, who are these guys? They keep going on these winning streaks, five in a row now for the Red Sox. And as you mentioned, college football, we're game last night, but a good first weekend. So this is a fun time to come back sports wise. Yeah, it really is. It's also when, of course, the weekend after Labor Day, the week after Labor Day is usually when elections are considered, are traditionally being considered to be launched. Actually, that's for the old days, because now, of course, we're already bumping up against early voting in statesite North Carolina. But if you look at the state of the race right now, and just right now, new national polling averages from Nate Silver finds Democrats are leading in most of the November's Keyes U.S. Senate races. The day shows Democrats ahead in every race, except for the once in a row in Kansas. You see Roy Cooper up 8.5% John Ossoff, 8% in Minnesota,

5:12plus five main, plus four. Ohio 3.3 New Hampshire, Chris Papis, despite yelling to anybody who will listen, he's losing, he's losing, he's losing, please give me money. The polling averages has him up by about three in New Hampshire. In Michigan, L.S.I. had up 2.1%, Tallerica 1.8%, Mary Plutola, a really good candidate for a Democrat in Alaska up in Iowa. You have Republicans up in Iowa, barely in Kansas. But Jonathan Lamir, those are all a lot closer than the Democrats or Republicans would have expected some time ago. And is there any belief that the White House is going to change their behavior in a way that will help Republican candidates more as this election gets closer? I mean, Republicans keep looking to the White House for some sort of lifeline and they're not getting it.

6:13The war continues. The terror force continue. Prices remain high. Trump seems far more interested in his own personal vanity projects. The ballroom, now there's word that the construction on the arches set to begin there between on that sacred space between the Lincoln Memorial and our Washington National Cemetery. Now there's some reporting this week that Trump's going to kick off his road show. He's going to be traveling and doing rallies for some of these candidates come this fall. That's perhaps a mixed blessing. But you know, you say that's a mixed blessing. And O'Courle Roe was like, you know, wrote last week and Wall Street Journal, though please don't. This is the last thing they need. A different bizarre statement every day, instead of different bizarre social media posts every day. Those sort of distractions are exactly the kind of distractions that Republicans say they don't need. No, they completely agree. And we're going to see it this week. Trump is going to try to make these midterms all about Trump.

7:16It's about ego, to be sure. It's also a bet that he can get some of his supporters who tend not to come out when his name is not on the ballot. And of course, it will not be this fall to try to get some of them out this time. So we got this midterms convention this week in Dallas that it seems like nobody wants and they're having trouble finding, giving people, giving tickets away to give people to go. You know, it's also opposite. You talk about sports. The NFL comes back this week and this convention is up against the first two nights of that season. America's going to be watching in big numbers. The football, not the convention. We also can't hate to afraid that they don't want to come off the trail for a couple of days. And then if Trump is going to make the ads about himself and if indeed he follows through on this rally schedule and we should note, you know, other talk earlier this year about him hitting the road for domestic campaigning. Largely hasn't happened. But if he does, well, then yeah, maybe just maybe, they turn out some of his like hardcore supporters. But at the same time, Joe, to your point, it risks alienating those who might be on the fence.

8:17Those might be swinging voters because Trump is so historically unpopular and is doing nothing to help his Republican candidates. Listen, here is just a reality. And you can go back to 2016 when Donald Trump's on the ballot, usually Republicans do better because people that don't vote in elections regularly and certainly don't usually vote for Republicans, will get out there and they will vote. And usually that'll pull some Republicans over the finish line. It didn't happen in 18. It didn't happen in 22 when he was selling people to go out even because his name began not on the ballot. And chances are very good. It's not going to happen in 26 again. Me because his name's not on the ballot. Now, I know race that you're very interested in and a race that really transfixed a lot of the political class over the summer was main. And the whole idea that if Troy Jackson came in as a last second substitute, then Susan Collins was once again going to find a way to win the election there again as she always does.

9:20But right now, Troy Jackson doing pretty well. He seems to be hitting all the right notes. Wasn't sure when he started. It was a tough way to come in. We've seen this happen before on a major level. But he's hitting all the right notes. And I think he really is speaking to mayners in a way that perhaps captures the essence of Grand Platinum's campaign without all the drama. Right. Let's see. So as gas prices hit record high this Labor Day weekend, President Trump is insisting to Americans that costs will soon come down. Trump posted last line on Truth Social that oil prices will drop precipitously when we win the war with Iran. This despite the president's numerous previous claims, the United States has already won in Iran. And his repeated assurances, the ongoing conflict now in its seventh month isn't even a war. So which is it really? Well, I mean, I would call this a war. There's no doubt about it, David Ignatius. It's a war. There's also really two ways to look at this.

10:22Number one, there's the way that Donald Trump, the politician we want people to look at it, not a war going to ensune gas prices are coming down, or the way that Donald Trump, the president, is looking at it, which is we're going to continue to do our best to choke Iran off economically. And on that second point, which I think you and I have said for quite some time now, it's the only way forward. You're not going to win this war militarily. You're not going to win it by sending a lot of troops to Corgis Island or to the strait. You're going to win it by economically strangling the Iranian economy. It does seem like some progress is really being made there, talk about it. So Joe, I think that strategy of economic pressure is the sensible one. Month ago, before I took a little vacation from my journalism, I said on your show and in the Washington Post

11:25that I thought basically Trump should shut up to stop talking about this war and let the economic pressure push Iran to the point that Iran finally said, OK, let's talk. Let's time to negotiate. What we're seeing is that as the economic pressure really begins to have an effect, Iran really is being squeezed now. They're pushing back. They're hurting. So what we just saw in the last few days is the Houthis. They're allies in Yemen beginning to fire directly on Saudi Arabia, causing several dozen casualties in Saudi Arabia. And that has pushed oil prices back up. Donald Trump only talks about how oil prices are going to come down when they've just gone up. So we have that. We have a broader proxy wars resuming Israel is on the attack again in Lebanon against Zabola. So I think, Joe, we may be entering a new phase in which Iran

12:27responds to the economic pressure. And then Trump has to decide whether to just keep squeezing avoid the military conflict that I think you and I are saying would be unwise for him, but make sure that economic pressure is tight as Iran flails and tries to strike back. But in this period, as we head toward the midterms, there's every likelihood now that oil prices will stay high. Cady, four months and months now. President Trump has just wanted this war to go away. He thought it would be 46 weeks. Military decisiveness would prevail. He thought quickly it has not gassed us 415 a gallon this morning. It was 320 a year ago today. Fertilizer through the roof, which is hurting farmers, not to mention the beef policy and the tariffs and everything else that come with it. But in terms of Iran, I think it seems when you talk to Republicans, they've accepted that this isn't going to end in time for the midterms if you want to add politics to it. But they don't quite know when it's going to end or how and what economic policies really will expedite the end

13:29of this war that President Trump said was small potatoes and that wasn't a war and then called it a war in that post. Right. And the people who don't know this is going to end soon are the generals who are advising the Secretary of Defense that this is putting enormous strain on the American military and it can't be upheld at this level for a long time because all of those troops are out there having to be on kind of a state of permanent residence readiness because they are being told that this is a war. Whatever the President wants to call it, they are the American military knows that this is a war and it's putting a lot of pressure on them. But from the Iranian point of view, as they feel this economic pressure, what are their options? Their options are to strike. What they want to do is draw President Trump back into military conflict. The way that they do that is by taking military action of their own. And so you're going to see this cycle, I think, between now and the midterm elections, where the Iranians do keep hitting because they want this not to be about economic pressure. That's what got them to the table back in 2014. They want this to be about military pressure.

14:31So I wouldn't expect to see the Iranians let up on these kind of other military activities, whether it's from Iran or from the Houthis. Well, you're going to hear a lot more threats as economic grip titans. Yeah. You're going to hear threats of them attacking the US homeland, which, of course, extraordinarily stupid thing for them to do. If they did that, all they would do would be to unite all Americans in this war. So that's certainly not a move they're going to make. Or if they do, they'll make it. It'll be the end of their government. Americans will support the other government. So you're going to hear them sounding more and more extreme, more and more radical as this economic grip titans around them. And the hope is, at some point, they do come to the table and they negotiate a piece that actually doesn't put them in a more powerful position than when this war first began. We've got a lot more to get to this morning.

15:32Still ahead on Morning Joe, Canada's retaliatory tariffs against the US are now, in effect, extending the ongoing trade war. And yeah, we talked through the Senate races. This is going to have a direct impact on the Senate race in Maine, in Michigan, in Minnesota, in Alaska, in Ohio. We'll get into all of that as well. And as we go to break, I'll look at the traveler's forecast this morning from AcuWeathers, Bernie Reino, Bernie, how's it looking? Make it a terrific Tuesday. You're actually with the travel forecast in the Northeast. How about sunshine? 81 in Boston, New York City, beautiful day in Chicago, maybe a shower in Louisville, some drenching thunderstorms, Florida Peninsula, East Texas, other than that, the southeast is hot and dry, no big travel delays, except for Miami this afternoon. We're also tracking Hurricane Low, unfortunately producing damage in the Western islands up the way of Kauai and Niha as it moves away this morning.

16:34They help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download AcuWeathers app today. Hey, I've got the campaign brief ready, built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape. Approved. Oh, agents, where would we be without you? Somewhere with a lot more tabs open. Create your first Monday agent in minutes at Monday.com. Saturday, September 26th, join MS now live in Texas for our biggest event yet, with Rachel Maddo, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele and more for a day of powerful conversations and timely insights in a crucial state for the midterms. The democracies heal and advance themselves

17:35by engaging everybody where they are. Plus exclusive community experiences, MS now live together in Texas, September 26th. Get tickets today at ms.now slash together. I did German Shepherd and there was a docks in that used to antagonize her at the playground and it kind of reminds me of that. It kind of reminds me of that. And this little yippie dog, it used to just like bark away. And for a long time, 110 pound German Shepherd was ignoring the docks and then one day she'd had enough. And unfortunately, Prime Minister Karni did walk away. They were given the opportunity for a great trade deal and that they didn't want it. And it looks like it's for political reasons. But the U.S. it is not much of a hit to us if any.

18:37You know Scott Besson is not that stupid. David Ignatius, he's just, I'm sure he's not that stupid. And yet the petty insults against Canada, deeply insulting, I think, to every American that understands America has thrived. America has grown through the years because we have a 5,525 mile border with our friends. Yes, yes, our friends. With our friends to the north. And it is a peaceful border and it has been a peaceful border. Over generations and they have gone along with us in wars, even some wars they disagreed with because they've been great allies. When you hear this sort of talk, this childish talk from a Treasury Secretary toward such an important ally,

19:37first of all, what do you think? And secondly, what would you like to tell the Treasury Secretary this morning about Canada's importance to America's national security today and through the years that he obviously didn't learn in school? So, Joe, when I hear Secretary Besant, who is a smart guy and an experienced financial trader, he was a phrase like, you know, yappy little dog to describe another country. I really do scratch my head. I think there is a competition among Trump's inner circle to be as nasty and vituperative as the president is and to have these clever one liners. But surely, Besant knows that this is self-destructive. If you asked anybody, what's this all about? What's the trade issue that's led to a trade war between the United States and arguably its closest allies? People would just shrug their shoulders.

20:37Nobody could tell you. It's just its self-perventuating problem. What struck me as I've talked to people in the last few weeks is that this is now beginning to spill over into areas that really matter. For example, the so-called five-Ice partnership that includes Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, maybe the most successful intelligence partnership in modern history is beginning to fray a little bit. I don't want to say that it's coming apart. But I hear that questions are being asked by our partners. Do we really trust the United States with our secrets? At the time when we get blasted when President Post maps showing our country covered by an American flag, do we really trust this other country? Intelligence is about trust most fundamentally with our secrets. So they're increasing implications beyond just the economics.

21:37To Trump and now to Besant, it seems like a kind of trash talking sport. And I think one thing that may change that is voters in the border states and in Minnesota and Maine, you know, have a deep affinity for Canada. Beginning to say, hey, wait a minute. We're not comfortable with this. But it is, as I said earlier, it's a crazy little trade war. And nobody can tell you really what it's about. And it's Canada, guys. It's Canada. Our friends are neighbors to the North. It's crazy. We love it. What a contrast over the weekend. Scott Besant, who is David said, is playing a character. He is a smart guy and a successful guy. But he's doing the thing that Donald Trump thinks he should be doing, which is being a jerk, frankly, what being interviewed by the daughter-in-law of President Trump. It's a perfect moment for this era. But the contrast of attacking Canada, well, Jared Krister and Steve Whitkopf bow almost literally to Vladimir Putin over the weekend in those conversations. But it has to be pointed out, I guess, as this week,

22:3725 years since 9-11, that 40,000 Canadian soldiers, 153 of whom died, fought with us after 9-11. They were in attack. We were attacked, but they sent their troops to go fight with us after 9-11. Joe, we can go back to D-Day if we want to. And Juno Beach, the Canadians fighting alongside us. So we didn't think we had to say these things out loud anymore that Canada is a great partner and a friend and has been in our side through history. And we've been at theirs. But in this moment, it has to be set out loud. A great ally, a great friend. It's ridiculous. A great neighbor. And a neighbor that has allowed the United States to thrive through the decades, through the generations, because we didn't have to worry about war to the north because they were such great allies of ours. And we really make it again, going back to the election. Whether you talk about Maine, whether you talk about Michigan, whether you talk about Minnesota, whether you talk about Alaska, even Ohio, there is a connection.

23:39There is a connection, a business connection, but a real love and affinity. I think one of the great moments over the past year was in the Stanley Cup playoffs. When you actually had the mic go out while a young woman was singing in O Canada, you had Buffalo's finest saying, don't worry, we got you. Finishing the Canadian national anthem forum, it was beautiful. And that showed, really, it really, the clearest form, what a great affinity Americans have for their Canadian friends to the north. It's just this invention. And it's been that way forever. But to David's point, I mean, these international partnerships, how long do they look at this as a passing problem, maybe solved by elections? Or did they look like this as a serious threat to the relationship? Canada's retaliatory tariffs have officially gone into effect, impacting roughly $20 billion worth of US goods. The tariffs apply to a range of products like steel,

24:42and aluminum, clothing, cheese, and electronics, and range from 15 to 25 or even 50%. They went into effect late last night at midnight, and come after talks between the US and Canada fell apart last month in the fallout. The US imposed its own 50% tariffs on Canadian goods. And Prime Minister Mark Carney vowed to retaliate. Since then, the President and members of his administration have escalated rhetoric against Canada with Trump even renaming Lake Ontario, Lake America. The President mentioned the renaming in a larger post on social media just hours before Canada implemented its new tariffs. Trump also threatened to stop the sale of jets from a Canadian aircraft manufacturer writing, if they want our market, they must build here and stop treating America like a piggy bank.

25:42We will note that the company, the President, mentioned it employs hundreds of workers in the state of Kansas. Well, of course it does. Jonathan will be right now here for a question for Cady Kay, but first, if you can just underline that fact that there's so many economic ties between the two countries, and you can't hurt Canada without hurting people, workers in Maine. You can't hurt Canada without hurting workers in Michigan, without hurting workers in Minnesota, without hurting workers in the last- Back to our Treasury Secretary Secretary. You're hurting the working class. You know somebody doesn't care, because what we're talking about are working, I mean take just Maine, for instance. I mean, a lot of family restaurants, a lot of small family businesses really get hammered this year, because all the Canadians that always came across the border and came into Maine for the summer, didn't come. Huge part of the economy. Did not come. It's a huge part of the economy. It's got best and his billionaire friends there, not going to miss that money or they, of course, not.

26:42But I'll tell you what, a family business is barely getting by that depends on tourism dollars every season, so they can make it through the winter and open back up when the spring comes along and keep their family business. It's been in the family for generations going. That doesn't reopen that spring. And Scott Becci, he'll still be making billions and billions of dollars on interest and on the stock market. These people in Maine and Minnesota, in Michigan and Alaska, their family businesses will shut down and won't reopen again. And maybe it's a joke to him, but I'll tell you what, it's not a joke to the small business owners. No, fair to say Susan Collins deeply concerned about this. Yeah, whether it's Maine, it's Michigan, it's Wisconsin. All of those states, their economies are intertwined with Canada, particularly the northern parts of it. Then this nation's economy is deeply intertwined with Canada. I mean, you're right about, first of all, wouldn't advantage it has been to not have to defend our northern border. But think about this, American sports leagues have teams in Canada

27:46that just doesn't happen anywhere else in the globe. There are teams in Toronto, Montreal, the like. So this is a big deal. And it does seem just frankly rank immaturity from the Treasury Secretary and others who do seem to be trying to outdo themselves and insulting our neighbor to the north. And Catti, it also just, this underscores just how unreliable the United States looks in the eyes of the rest of the world. Canada certainly is a NATO partner. Canada is a close ally. Canada has been there for us, again, Article 5 for NATO, and vote exactly once, while it was 25 years ago, this week for September 11th. And this reinforces our allies around the world that if we're picking this fight with arguably our closest, most tossile friend, how can they ever trust us to be there? So a European senior, you know, a peer-and-a-dap diplomat recently told me there are three things that all of America's allies have to do with Donald Trump.

28:47One is flatter him, one is be firm against him, and the third one is to future-proof themselves. Well, Mark Khan didn't get the flattery memo, but he is definitely future-proofing Canada against the US. And I think that is what America has to be worried about that what Donald Trump is doing, what Scott Besson is doing, what these silly memes are doing, is reinforcing the message to other countries that they have to do trade deals with each other. Canada's done 20 of them in the past year. They have to do defense deals with each other. Canada is now talking to the Germans and the Swedes for its submarines and its fighter jets, rather than talking to the Americans. And they have to get themselves in a position where in five years time, in ten years time, they are less dependent on the United States. There is no way that that is good for American workers. You had presidents after the Second World War that realized that America's trade relations, having good trade relations with other countries, was good for American workers. But now you've got other countries, Joe and Mika, saying, we don't think America is going to be there for us, and we are going to try to make sure that we are not dependent on America.

29:51There is no way that doesn't hurt the United States going forward. Well, no way at all. And it hurts the United States and hurts Western democracy. It hurts freedom. It hurts Ukraine. You look at our allies and the way that voters there are making their decisions. You look at Germany this past weekend, a very bad weekend for Ukraine. You listen to what Steve Whitkopf had just say, just praising Vladimir Putin, saying just being in the very same room with him is one of the great honors of his life, while Putin is killing and raping and kidnapping young children from Ukraine. And then you have what happened in Germany, where a political party that has neo-Nazi elements in it, and also is decidedly pro-Pooten, openly pro-Pooten, won a state victory in East Germany. Now, Eastern part of Germany, we'll talk about how significant that could be. I personally think it's just a warning shot for Western democracy, but we're going to get David Ignatius to tell us his take on what happened

30:53when AFD won a state election, or at least one, a plurality of a state election in the eastern half of Germany, and why so many people in Washington and across Europe are freaking out about it. That's when Morning Joe returns. All right, welcome back to Morning Joe. Look at that beautiful shot of... It's a beautiful shot of the skyline, but then they're literally cranes all the way... I think they're building a hell of... I don't know. There's a lot going on there. A lot of constrictions. But at least reflecting Pulsakenga, all right. Back to Germany. The Wall Street Journal editorial board is writing about how the AFD is rising on the German right, the editors write in part, quote, a political crisis in Germany is the last thing Europe needs. But it may be what Europe gets, voters in the eastern state of Saxony and Holt

31:55are not going to be able to do that. But it may be what Europe gets, voters in the eastern state of Saxony and Holt on Sunday plunged politics into disarray with a strong show of support for a formally outcast party of the insurgent right. The signal is clear. Even if the electoral math might not hand the AFD a working majority in the state government, voters are exasperated with traditional parties. The frustration is driven primarily by the permissive immigration party. The frustration is driven primarily by the permissive immigration policies Berlin pursued for a decade after 2015, which are proving difficult to wind back. Add to which the economy suffers an anemia. Berlin is struggling to cure. The AFD hurts its own cause by refusing to discipline or expel leaders and members accused. And in some cases convicted of parroting Nazi slogans and the like,

32:57some American conservatives may cheer on the AFD's rise. That's a mistake. The party's instincts are anti-American, and in power it would undermine the North Atlantic Treaty organization from within, rather than strengthening America's alliances in Europe. But the AFD's faults don't absolve politicians and mainstream parties of their obligation to show voters they can deliver real change on an out of control migration policies and economic decline. Otherwise, expect results like those in Saxony and Holt to become Germany's new normal. Something Joe, you have been talking about on this show literally for 10 years. Yeah, for a decade, for 11 years, just saying what the Wall Street Journal is saying now in 2026 in that last paragraph talking about how the center in Europe needs to have regional, rational immigration policies.

34:03And it's something again, we played a tape a couple of weeks ago of how we warned time and time again in 2014, 2016, 2017 that either the center in Europe was going to figure out how to handle the immigration crisis in Europe, our right wing extremists would start getting elected. And those right wing extremists with a lot of neo-Nazi overtures there would take control. If the center wasn't going to do it, the extremists would. And what's happened? You have seen the middle in Europe hollowed out. You have seen parties on the right, you have extreme parties on the left. And now you have this election, AFD, which Germany's done everything they can to create this firewall. And again, to show you how blind the West was to this crisis in 2015, after Angela Merkel allowed hundreds of thousands of Syrian immigrants in without any background checks.

35:07Open the doors, Germany let 300,000, maybe 350,000. And without any questions at all, overwhelming Germany, time magazine named a person in the year. I remember Mark Alpen was on set with me that morning. And two minutes after this image came out, we just mockingly laughed and said, don't they understand? Don't the editors of Time Magazine understand that we are going to be paying for the repercussions, the backlash, the political backlash of this for years to come. And we have with Brexit Donald Trump picked up on it and now David Germany, that backlash continues in part because of the just absolute failure, whether you talk about Germany or you talk about France or you talk about Britain, the absolute failure of the political center in Europe to come together with a governing policy that can inspire its people.

36:17I agree Joe, it's haunting that this has been coming on. So obviously a real problem, a rise of a populist right wing party in Germany that was speaking about immigration problems that apparently people in Berlin and Frankfurt were not worrying about. But people in the German middle class working class Germans were increasingly worried about it. It's important to note that the place where the AFD, this right wing party broke through in yesterday's elections, Saxony Unhulp, is a former East German city, it's relatively poor, it's a place where people haven't seen a lot of opportunities, so they're very vulnerable to this kind of rhetoric. The one positive thing that I noted Joe is that Germany's chancellor, Friedrich Merz, said after this result, this has shaken us. In other words, to your point, this has shown us that what we're doing is alienating too many German voters.

37:24There are two more regional elections coming up in the next few months. And in less Merz really shows Germans that the center can respond to problems that people feel this could compound. As you said in introducing this subject, this is a more warning shot than a devastating change in the German body politic. But it could be coming if German leaders don't take these issues more seriously. Well, will the German leaders need to be shaken? Europe needs to be shaken. There has been such an extraordinary blind spot, whether you're going to Germany, whether you're going to France, whether you're talking about Great Britain. I remember talking to a good friend who was the most left wing person I knew. Her family were from Manchester, they despised Fatcher, and I said, well, you're obviously going to vote against Brexit. She goes, no, I'm voting for Brexit. We've done our part on immigrants. We've done our part. And then she went on and on again, person who's never voted for a conservative, never voted for Tory candidate in her life, went on and on on this immigration problem.

38:36But it's not just the immigration problem. Obviously, there's an economic problem as well. They regulate too much. They tax too much. Their economies have been sagging. So what happens? If you're in the eastern part of Germany, if you're in the depressed part of Germany where everybody's leaving and you're seeing a lot of immigrants coming in, what's going to happen? You're going to blame it on the immigrants. You're not going to blame it on a government that doesn't get out of the way and let business actually grow the economy. Yeah, and Chancellor Merck, so by the way, is a traditional conservative, but not conservative enough in this moment for many people in German apparently. He's got historically low approval ratings. So he was kind of at the center of this race as well, Cadi. And this has echoed across European capitals, as you know, very well. It is a relatively small state, and this party did win 44% not a majority. But there's a reason that people in London, in Paris, in Brussels and all over Europe are sitting up this morning and taking note of a party whose platform was anti-immigration.

39:40And also very anti-Ukraine. They want to cut off all aid to Ukraine and reestablish ties with Russia, of which as David pointed out, it was a part going back to the Cold War. Yeah, I mean, I think Joe, Joe's point is right that immigration has been badly handled. You wouldn't have had Brexit without those waves of refugees coming across from Syria. Saxony and Hult is actually an area of Germany that has half the number of immigrants of other areas of Germany. So it's not like there is a huge immigration population there. They've had chemical industry restructuring that's lost jobs. They've had very high energy prices because of the Ukraine war. And because of cutting back on gas from Russia, they've got an aging population. They've had a huge decline in public services. So I think all of that, those economic factors also play into this, but it's very easy as well for populist parties to point to the immigrants as the problem. It doesn't seem that's actually the case in this area of Germany, particularly. But the reason this is ringing alarm bells is you've got elections coming up next weekend in Sweden, where the far right is polling well.

40:44You've got those huge presidential elections in France next spring. And then you have elections in Spain, in Italy, in Poland. Also where the far right parties are polling well. And so they're all looking at Germany and saying, wow, if for the first time since 1945, a party that is called a far right party can win a state in Germany, what does that portend for us? I think those are the signals that other European countries. And Joe as much as it is about immigration, although I think governments are handling that better, trying to. It's really about economic growth. They've got to get growth up. They've got to get economic opportunities up. And they have to bring down energy prices. Sounds familiar right to American voters too. Right. And you're exactly right, Katty. And that's the problem when the government doesn't respond well on the economic front. And when you see Germany going from being in an unassailable position economically 15 years ago, to being where it is today, that's when people in the center start looking around and say, who do we blame for this?

41:49And instead of, you know, talking about deindustrialization or AI or robotics or all these other things, they look to immigrants to use them escape, escape goats. No, if the economy were going well, this message would fall on deaf ears. And that is the message. The problem is the economy. European leaders have lost the plot on how to grow the economy. But in the absence of being able to do that, people are going to look for somebody to blame. And sadly, in this case, as in the case of the United States and the case of Britain, it goes back to immigrants. Thank you very much, David's latest column on why America's absence is inviting the war Europe fears most is online right now. Read it coming up. We'll go through the highlights from the US Open Plus, the controversial call in the Michigan Western Michigan football game that changed the ending and is still being talked about days later. We'll be right back.

43:01You know that feeling too many updates too many meetings too many things falling through the cracks Monday.com was built for that gap the AI work platform designed from the ground up for people and agents to work side by side and deliver more. Together, drafting the brief, flagging risks, running a competitive scan your agent can do it all in the best part anyone can build one even you try it. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com. Down in 10, nine seconds remaining. Deep drop, Underwood, five seconds left. Underwood is going to toss it towards the end zone into the crowd and out of bounds time expires. It's the attack from the Mac Western Michigan.

44:21It's a shockwave to cross the color football world. After review, there's one second remaining in the game. Terry, I would assume that this is based on where they feel ridiculous. The most talked about play over the weekend, big 10 officials finding it in their hearts to give Michigan one second time a game that was over. The period Michigan had lost at home to Western Michigan something you do not do at Michigan and with that added second Michigan's do over. Yep. Bryce Underwood launches one to the end zone. You can and does make a great catch and Michigan wins by one point joining now. It's a surprise when he hosts a public. Tore finds out MS now contributor public. Tore and writer for New York magazine and the athletic will leech guys. Good morning. Well, I got to start with you because you're a big 10 guy. Nice win by the Alina over UAB. By the way, we like the way the program cited. But let's talk about what happened. I was watching that game live that game was over that game was over Western Michigan played great Michigan was terrible.

45:25I would have completely changed the program at Western Michigan would change Michigan season. Obviously. Well, how did this happen other than the big 10 saying we cannot have Michigan losing its first game and being out of the conversation. It was certainly strange, of course, for everyone that was watching the game, we saw the clock run out beforehand, but it turned out the big 10 as it kind of showed later that night in oddly funded social media message kind of a. And it's the business that said no, no, there's a camera that you don't have access to that we do and they showed the video and it appeared that in their video that the player who had stepped out of bounds had touched the ball with one second left. This was not a video to anyone watching at home is able to see and in fact was something that no one even no existed until the most convenient possible time for it to be it's shown. So, yes, certainly when you consider how much power the big 10 has how important Michigan is to that how how frankly Western Michigan. Remember, this was a game that they got $1.6 million to play right they were made to kind of come in to do they're really kind of the powerless team in the situation.

46:30The notion that to me as a wild part of others I wrote up this for the athletic this week the notion that you know instant replay existed essentially to like correct historical wrongs right like the Don Dickens your call gets correct or Missouri doesn't get the fifth down but basically we how many times have we watched a game seen a clear watch the replay be like okay well I know what happens and then I know what happened I see now thank you replay and have the officials come with the exact opposite thing and now we learn there are secret cameras that we don't actually know about control by the league that has a lot of money to be involved in this. Really I don't know how anyone can have faith and replay out that didn't just give us one more thing to be angry about. Well, here's how we can have faith and replay and the athletic wrote another story yesterday about this about how the big 10 released the conversation of the officials that were reviewing the replay and will you remember last year the ACC started doing this in some games and you sat there you go oh okay wait a second I see what they're looking at that makes sense and you actually walk through it with the officials.

47:33And I think there was a controversy of play I think it was in a UVA game I'm not sure but by the time they made their decision like okay I understand why they're making that decision on when he has possession of it they released that the next day after was too late to put the cows back into the barn and when you look at all of that the next day you're like okay I can see how they made their decision so I guess the question is this when is every conference going to allow these people to be able to see the next day. So I'm going to allow viewers to go in and listen to what the officials are looking at when they do the replay so this doesn't happen again. Yeah, it was telling when the ACC did that the moment out fans were like fantastic that's wonderful that now we can see what's going on please do this SEC and the big 10 they both like no that's not what I'm doing at all. So there is a sense of a lack of transparency generally speaking to the point where if again they had the opportunity to do this we could have theoretically had real time access to that conversation the big 10 and the SEC the two most powerful conferences that are there's always the fear they're going to produce like super conferences where it's almost an AFC and an NFC and that's what runs college football they have so much power in the sport if they don't want to be transparent they don't have to be I think it leads to not just them putting this thing out there.

48:53People not not believing them but the notion of like well of course the big 10 is not going to let Western Michigan beat Michigan of course now and again maybe I I understand the call I understand the argument they made but the way the power structures put together in this for right now what in this is any sports fan to actually believe them in that scenario it should be said about Western Michigan their coach the president of the handle this with total class that night in the next day to press conference moving on to the next week but I'll pose the question to you that our EP Alex course and posted me this morning if the shoe had been on the other foot if that had been western Michigan do you think at the big house the big 10 would have looked and said you know what Western Michigan we're going to give you another shot to beat Michigan there would have been an insurrection we would have been occupying various establishments physical buildings calling for election monitors look the way this happened and it's got to say this is a reflection the conversation is a reflection to where we are in sports where we don't actually believe the things were being shown these are these are not the clocks you're looking for like now there's a we got some clocks in the back actually those are the real clocks not the ones in the front it's because the money is flowing in ways where it's like the

50:10look the cupcake game with the Michigan getting paid that is an ancient tradition with when you have an era of gambling and now opacity you are wondering like what's going on here and so yes I want cameras inside the hooded tents where the reps are to Joe's point I want an extra decimal point added to the clocks yes we get some decibels like we're doing nice round numbers meanwhile there's another sponsorship opportunity john you can't sell a clock sponsorship to get decibel points so you can actually make it a more transparent sort of explanation as to why this is happening yeah we have decibel points the basketball we see that yes you're the very least it shouldn't be too hard to sync up this mysterious back room clock with the TV broadcast like so we can all know what's what's going on calling for a complete total shut down a ball college football clocks I will note though that sometimes there is the patty team that goes in and gets paid and then beats the home team you mass beat Rutgers last week at the election state that it's a Michigan at the end of the dollar western Michigan they held the ball for like 40 minutes like the way

51:14they played the game actually the game itself Michigan should be embarrassed on a couple of levels one of them is the football level the ball for less than 20 any other pretty uninspiring we were talking really never talking about earlier pretty uninspiring first weekend of college football a lot of blowouts not that many good games we have power failure last night any in Florida state any other store lines jump out to you just watching Lane kiffin and LSU you know the guy knows what he's doing he's making an argument talk about this last week how was it that he's getting guys who were just an NFL training camps what he's saying to everybody and how he's carrying himself is this is the pros it's all the pros look at me walk out with the OVon and liby done and all these influencers watch me tap up these recruits I'm going to pay millions of dollars to on the way to my nationally televised game in which also there's a conversation in the SEC around not just cannot get X NFL players but also are we going to give this sport an anti-trust exemption as he's lobbying on camera next to Nick save and next to Pat McAfee the whole thing smells like lobbying and so this is where you got to start to say

52:18Lane kiffin has figured out this is the error in fact that we are living he even in his half time interview at that game he jokingly said they were up by whatever 31 to 3 goes just imagine if we had pro players would be up by more he's leaning in we passed you that newspaper I passed you which one right in front of you. Yeah sure. Check this out guys the wall street journal editorial page which usually writes about tariff policy in the midterm elections rights this this morning Pablo Torre won you can pop in right here Pablo Torre won Mark Cuban push in on that a little bit there you go zero talking about your investigation your long investigation was questioned by their own serious. So you have a different score let's talk baseball as we turn the corner after Labor Day we focus on these penit races Aaron judges coming back for the game. I heard two on the red sauce. We've waited long enough Willie areas where he's back what are you looking at the baseball race. I mean I have to say we talk a lot on this program about the miracle Boston red

53:21socks and I want to know if the if the sanehood applications are still are still being processed. Where are we because I like the Yankees I do I like Aaron judge being back we've said all the time Aaron judge has as much influence as an individual player can have over a team in baseball statistically it's crazy and I'm flipping my way over to the standings I'm just wondering like how are we feeling how are we feeling red socks lobbyists. Yeah we're certainly happy for you guys Aaron judges back as you can see I'm delighted. You know the Joe I mean the socks can do continue to win with this sort of upstart you know anonymous crew Mickey Gasker couldn't be picked out of a lineup unless you're someone who really knew stuff about mustaches. Yeah he's hitting like Barry bonds the last few weeks we're two back three with the tiebreaker but you know we're just as you know Joe we're just looking up at those Yankees and we're grateful to be in striking distance right as they proceed to make another one to October. I think what we understand is that Aaron judges come back and the Yankees are going they they failed utterly last year to play

54:28up the expectations but they're going to win the World Series in five games we understand that we are the little engine that could and you know with people like Mickey Gasker 31 year old journeyman had the best month of anybody in baseball history other than maybe Babe Ruth and one or two others we've got we've got a bunch of other guys some guys just kind of walked onto the field seriously they couldn't play for any other team there is the guys that have won helped the red socks win since June the 25th there's not a player on that team I think that the Yankees would have gone out and got there it's it's a lamir every other night there's there's another no name player that steps up and is a hero it's it's pretty inspiring and you just kind of hear that little engine that could even though the Yankees are going to win a five I think I can I think I can I mean it is it is

55:30think I can I think I can I think I can I think I'm not saying bad I think I can't mark it's a spider oh my god the they're very few in soccer fans who can claim to have seen this coming that much is is to be is clear we should also know Willie Ray is still in first place yeah and raising the Yankees have a huge series looming both I was at both the socks and Yankees have relatively easy schedules down the stretch but that one four games in the Bronx Looms large four games set but also the macro picture the Dodgers are the favorites the Dodgers of course the Dodgers his own ship is in broiled in a federal scandal by the way which recovering on the podcast as well and by the way labor stoppage looming don't this is what we're doing we're playing baseball until no one can agree with the baseball more and some more and I'm just warning you let's enjoy this last season enjoy enjoy your judge while you hey well take us out of the NL East if you would the white socks quietly having a great season obviously with the blessing of Pope Leo their number one fan also the the brewers I mean they're the best team in baseball by record right now what else are you

56:32looking at down the stretch here yeah he's fine we're talking about the labor stuff I mean certainly the brewers are our team for this notion that the Dodgers are this Titanic team that no one can stop the brewers are better than they are and have the best record in baseball and I think are pretty prime to make a pretty good run that may undermine I would say some of the arguments about a revenue sharing and labor issues in the sport but not that it's going to stop this scaring of of all that looming tower that is that labor thing is coming up but to me the brewers are the brewers and again the rays sorry I know it's I know it's a Boston New York thing but the rays are better than both of them and if it's better than both of them yeah it's true that's shocking he says I'm shocked sad but of course Yankees won it all hey let me ask you a little about the the US open and there are a lot a lot of great stories here a lot of great matches but I don't think any is inspiring us Tiafado for those that don't know about Tiafas background his father and mother immigrated from Sierra Le Ileon in the mid-1990s during the brutal civil war his father

57:33gets on a construction site they build a tennis center and he's on the construction team they build a tennis center in Maryland and the people that he's working for like him so much they say hey why don't you run our grounds and and so he didn't have a place to live with his twin sons so they let him stay in an abandoned office he raises his kids there for 11 years they grow up on the tennis courts for the first 11 years and one of those two twins you're looking at him there oh my god the quintessential American story the toast of New York City there he is Tiafado it's been wonderful he plays at one o'clock today with a chance to give it the semi there's guaranteed going to be at least one American the semi it'd be pretty wonderful as him he has kind of got close to this before and never quite gotten over the top at his win in the last round was as great as he has ever played it does kind of feel like this could be kind of his moment again there's we

58:37almost had four Americans in the in the quarter finals for the first time since 1995 and but he is the one that had been shown in place tonight but I think it really is Tiafado the one that is is peaking right now by the way the way he won like you said against medvedia former us open winner a former number one guy who was ranked seven in the world straight sets just dominated him right it's what we've been waiting for from him right like he's shown this before he's getting a little older at least in the age of tennis players and but this is the time like this is what he's been built in toward he's never quite broken through if he can get to the semi obviously he's going to have the crowd around him and the influencers by the way at the other big story of the C.O.I.S opening up to retrospect they they should have not given ring lights to the first 5,000 fans in attendance I think no I'm I'm I asked the selfie selfie stick to that next year writer for the Atlantic willy Chen MS now contributor Pablo Tory thank you both very much for coming

59:37on the show this morning morning and zero you can tell the Wall Street Journal editorial page we'll turn back to politics some republican candidates are trying to separate themselves from president trump on the campaign trail even telling the white house he can't come to their events what we'll dig into that strategy and how the president may respond to that morning Joe will be right back thanks for visiting our yoga class tap when you're ready what just happened it's my new bmo angel city fc debit mastercard every time I use it it taps me into the game okay maybe don't do it again oh these socks are nice I'm gonna go ahead and so sorry the bmo angel city fc debit mastercard tap into the game a counselor's a big to approval and I'll provide in the United States by bmo bank and I remember fd i c b