Dharma Discussion: Cold Mountain, Companionship, and Heart of the Poet

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This is Dharma Podcast at thermapodcast.org.

This is episode number 2576.

It was recorded on February 25th, 2026.

And it is titled Dharma Discussion, Cold Mountain, Companionship, and Heart of the Poet.

The speakers for this episode are Peter Levitt, Kaz Tanahashi, and Noah Kodo Rowan.

Have a seat. It's not going to be like marital therapy.

I was going to kind of sit facing you guys.

Let's see. Have a seat.

This is about you guys, and I love you.

So welcome everyone.

Good evening. I'm really excited to have Peter Levitt here.

And since it caused, decided to join for this conversation.

And we thought it said of a Dharma talk.

We would do more of just a conversation slash interview and see what comes up.

And for those of you who don't know, since it caused in Peter, and since a Peter, yeah.

We'll both be teaching this weekend at the, the retreat we're doing on Han Shang or Zen Poetry.

We still have spaces available if you'd like to join.

And hopefully tonight we'll continue why you must be there.

So we'll begin with the verse before the Dharma talk.

The Lord of all, is us, and so, we now, our child.

We hear it, say it, practice it.

We vow to realize it's true meaning.

The Lord of all, is us, and so, we now have chance to hear it.

Say it, and practice it.

We vow to realize it's true meaning.

The Lord of all, is us, and so.

We now have chance to hear it.

Say it, and practice it.

We vow to realize it's true meaning.

So the first thing I'd like to do is a little sound check to make sure our audios are all good here.

So I've got the mixer on my phone.

Okay.

Which one am I, am I six?

Okay. How do I sound in the back? Is that okay?

I'm seven. Well, it's four, five and six.

Yeah. I'm five.

Okay. Who's four?

Can you say something Peter?

Thank you for coming. Can you hear me?

Yeah. Is it okay? I talked very quietly, so let me know.

Can you hear me in the back?

No.

Okay. I'll try.

That's too much.

That's a lot.

Okay.

All right. How about now?

Okay.

Can you hear me now?

Okay.

Thank you.

And pass.

No.

Everyone.

Are you seven?

Friends.

I'm dying and don't psyched.

So nice to see you.

Great. I think we're good.

Thank you.

So Peter, in your book that you, you guys did together.

Did you have a copy of it?

Yes.

Is it?

Yeah.

This wonderful book, which we do have copies of for sale,

if you'd like to, to get one.

In the introduction in there, you talk about.

Peter, you talk about.

How Hanshan.

It's like had this longing for a companion.

I feel like you and cause have this wonderful companionship.

And I thought.

Maybe you could introduce each other instead of me giving up, you know,

a written bio.

What do you have to say about your, your companion for how many years have you known,

constant.

So cause.

You know, forgive me for anything I say.

How's it?

I met.

At.

Oh, hi foundation.

At retreat.

The first retreat for American Buddhist artists.

Led by Tiktok Han as far as I remember.

And Rosy Joan.

Hosted and Cynthia cheers hosted.

And.

Wonderful people were there.

And we, we, we enjoyed each other right away.

And we had a, our first translation experience actually happened at that retreat

because Tiktok Han asked cause and Rick Fields, who was there.

And need to do a new translation of the heart sutra.

So we went away the three of us together.

And then after two hours, we realized that we, we had a problem.

We couldn't agree on what Duke comment.

So it really made us, it really made us suffer.

So, so cause said we failed.

And I like that because I find, you know, I'm, I'm good at very few things,

but failure is really one of my strengths.

So, so cause said we failed.

So someone has to, someone has to tell Tiktok Han that we failed.

So he turned to Rick and he said, I think Peter should do it.

Rick said, I think that's an excellent idea.

So we bonded right there on failure.

We failed at suffering.

So, but then we, we started to, you know, our friendship was avoided.

I think it was a kind of hard, hard to heart bonding.

And we began by translating a flock of fools, a hundred short tales,

usually comedic tales from the hundred parable sutra.

And in that book, also, there was a problem because after we were done,

I counted them up and they were only 98.

So there were 98 fools, but the book promised a hundred.

So I said to cause cause, we have a problem.

He said, okay, what's the problem?

I said, well, we're supposed to have a hundred fools, but two are missing.

So we looked at each other, but we didn't, we didn't know what to do.

So this is sort of the story of our life.

Sometimes when cause was putting together Shobogenzo,

the treasure of the two dark eye of Doggen's life work,

we would translate together, but also kind of trying to get one voice for Doggen

because they were 30 translators involved in that.

And so one of my favorite parts of that was a cause would write.

And then he showed it to me and I'd say, oh, okay, let me see that.

And then I would write, and then he'd look at what I didn't.

He'd say, yeah, oh, that's very nice.

Okay, let me have it.

We go back and forth like that until we sort of found what we needed,

the way we needed to say it.

So I think some of it up by saying this,

I consider my friendship with cause, one of the greatest treasures of my life.

We have never, well, you know, this is still time,

but we have never had an argument.

We've disagreed about words or something like that.

It's part of the process of translation,

but we've enjoyed each other for almost 40 years now.

So we kind of enjoyed ourselves so much.

We visited each other with this Columbia and hopefully California.

And when we complete a project,

we need to find another execute to work together, play together.

So we can visit.

So this is one of the processes.

What are some of the other projects you've done together?

So we completed an application of Saigyo's book, Saigyo 7,

when it was a greatest Japanese poet.

Yeah, Blossom Awakening, it's the title.

Yeah.

11th century.

Yeah, so that was that.

That's Japanese poetry.

Right.

Japanese.

Yeah.

And we just completed EQ.

Great.

A kind of classic outrageous.

And Japanese poet.

I see a theme here.

He rejected everything, including himself.

14th century.

Japanese.

Fantastic.

Great.

Yeah.

And there was something else I can't remember what it is,

but we'll show against some of those.

How many fascicles?

95.

Did you work on it?

We worked.

Are you worried?

Believe it or not.

But also Peter was my associate editor.

So he was taking everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We went through that.

It took us 10 years to do show against.

So 10 years.

It's 500,000 words.

And we went through it about five times.

And the piece I said.

How do you characterize the dogans?

So we went through.

It was, yeah.

Half of a million words.

Yeah.

In one word.

Yeah.

And then.

And then what to do.

So I said.

Did I see.

Undivided.

Non-separation.

And then I said to Peter.

How do you characterize?

And.

Is said intimate.

So intimate is a sandwich.

Not divided.

Intellect.

Disclination.

Just can direct experience.

You know, working with all those fascicles.

So again, there were 30 translators.

But we, we needed to create this voice.

Yeah.

You know, I know.

Rocheon.

Rocheon is in it.

And we realized we can't have 30 voices.

Part of what was going on.

And we went over and over and over.

And the translation and changing this and that.

But how do we make a dogan?

It just a dogan for the 21st century.

And that was really challenging.

But it took reading the work over and over.

And so.

His loving heart.

For me, dogan was.

It was loving, really loving.

Because he really wanted everyone to be free of suffering.

And to be intimate with every aspect of their life and every aspect of life.

And so that's, you know, that's sort of what we aimed for in some way.

A voice that could carry.

That love.

I'll just say it that way.

Thank you.

It really feels that way and the struggle again.

So.

And that story reminds me of from your introduction, talking about the.

A story that really.

And that story.

Again, it is possible three different Han Shans and how you make one voice.

But maybe I'm jumping the gun.

How did you come to translate Han Shans together?

How did that project.

Become.

You want to say.

Oh, hey.

It's on the end.

So.

About to.

Translate.

They told it, you may know him as Lee Bolts, some of him,

you know, as Lee Bolts.

Yeah.

But then there were over a thousand poems of his, we realized,

you know, we're not 20, so Lee Bolts had to mean poems.

Yeah, too many poems.

And so, um, actually we were in, I think we were,

we were, I don't remember where we were, but anyway,

we finished up against Owen Caz says, oh, we need another project.

So we can keep visiting each other.

I said, okay, that's great.

So, and he said, okay, let's translate the Hanshan.

Okay, great.

Let's do Hanshan.

So then we reached the end of Hanshan, Caz said, then we were in China

together and Caz said, oh, you know, we finished Hanshan there.

We need to another project.

Why don't we do Lee Bol?

So then we realized, you know, Lee buys too much.

So then, um, you know, he's like this endless idea factory.

We said, how about EQ?

I said, okay, EQ, that's the EQ.

So, but now we're done with EQ.

So Hanshan was just, he just, why did you want to do Hanshan?

You know, I,

when I had a baby boy, baby boy.

So, it was my, my time to suggest the name.

So, like the, something called first name and the second name is Hanshan.

And then his, uh, Linus,

and so this book actually has been, uh,

dedicated to, uh,

Peter's son, you know, Ty, Ty, and then my son,

Ko Hanshan, I just love Hanshan.

And then, yeah, one of the greatest changes for it.

We'll talk about companions.

I think that when I first read the first translations of Hanshan,

I read was by Gary Snyder, who, you know, you know, you know,

you know, it was just a little folded book called Rip Rep and, uh,

called Mountain Poems, I think 75 cents in 1960.

And when I read Gary's translations, I felt like,

I, I, I didn't know there was someone in the world who felt the way I felt in that particular way.

I felt like I really was being given a true friend, a real companion,

of the part of myself that nobody else could see.

There was something in the ineffable quality of the poems that Hanshan,

that, that Gary translated up Hanshan's that spoke to me so deeply that,

um, and it hasn't changed.

Um, and, um, I've, I've now found that with other poets that have translated from,

you know, Chinese and Japanese, but there's something about this companionship,

this thing that you share, I'm sure, I'm sure all of you know this in some way.

There's something you share that can't be spoken, almost like the Dow.

You can't really say it, but you, but there it is.

And, um, I think, I think that kind of, um,

that kind of, uh, relationship, um, can really help to keep you alive and confirm your life as it is.

You're not, you are existentially alone, but you are not darnically alone.

And that makes a big difference.

And I think it's one of the people, one of the reasons people love poetry,

because it can give you that, um, in a way that maybe can or can't be explained,

but it can give you that.

That's why I love Hanshan.

The poetry, um, in the book, it's wonderful.

You have the original characters.

It's, it's very structured and I think we'll learn more about that this weekend.

I'm curious, how is it to read it in the Chinese versus reading it in, in translation?

Yeah, we're very happy that, uh, yeah, dining intensity, uh, we, uh, joining us in the seminar.

And then, uh, we read English translation, and we ask her to read the original.

So, and then I think in Chinese poetry, rhyming is important, you know, practically all poems lying.

So we try to explain what actually rhyming means in Chinese poetry.

Well, there's a complex, but maybe in case of Hanshan.

So we could ask her to read in a normal way, but also to read, uh, emphasizing rhyming,

so that we understand what actually Hanshan's rhyming was.

You know, basically Chinese sound, uh, kind of, uh, change.

And it's changed from, you know, north to south.

So, uh, Cantonese actually is regarded as not so far from tundiness in translation.

So we're lucky that we will hear that.

You know, uh, reading, uh, in this weekend.

You know, uh, just to follow up what you said, because one of the great things about the dining reading is that, um,

it's as close as any of us will ever get to hearing what Hanshan heard in his mind when he was writing.

You, you will hear it. The intonation will be different than the tone sound and, you know, becoming, it's been, you know, 1300 years, 1200 years.

But, but, you know, maybe when you're writing a poem or something like that, you're hearing the words in your head.

We'll get to hear the words in Hanshan's head in some way.

It's as close as we'll ever get.

The other thing, if you don't mind, I wanted to say you ask about what was it like to translate from the Chinese.

So it's very different from causing me because, uh, cars can read the kanji has done it in his whole life.

The kanji is the Chinese character. Okay. He's done it his whole life.

Um, and, and my ability with to read Chinese is limited. It's not like his.

So I get, I get the poem and I have to look up and I, I don't know if I have to, but I want to.

I look up every single character and I use three dictionaries to make sure that I'm getting any possible nuance that is within those characters.

And then I have to try to figure out what's going on.

So I have to struggle, which comes naturally to cause not struggle, but to read, you know, but I have to figure that out somehow so that I can even begin to get an idea of what's going on.

And then cause very kindly gives me some kind of some version that helps me figure out the syntax, because I can't figure out the syntax.

I'm not fluent in Chinese.

So then once I have that, then I can start the process of translation. All of that is not, is pre-translation.

That's just groundwork. Then comes for me. I have to try to enter the world of the poem through what I've come to understand about the characters.

So it's quite, it's quite a process for every poem, but I have to say that I take enormous comfort in reading those characters and learning what I'm looking at.

And then knowing I'm on my way to cold mount. I'm on my way to Hanshire.

So basic process is actually, you know, I first kind of maybe type the characters and then translate each character.

So maybe a few different translations.

And then also make notes about compound.

So as you can see, two words combined is not different from original meaning sometimes, right?

But anyway, for example, hotdog, you know, it's compound.

You should use something more modern.

Anyway, so comfort to identify and then explain compound is important.

So I make kind of list of compound and explanations.

And then I make some rough translation.

And then Peter can sort of have all this maybe information.

And then when he wants to study more characters, more further, he can study nowadays.

They're good online dictionaries.

You know, the first translation from Chinese I ever did was 1978.

There was no online dictionary.

So I had to learn how to use what's called the Matthews, Matthews Chinese dictionary.

It's broken up into 214 what are called radicals roots of the whole Chinese language.

So based on 214 characters, the whole Chinese language emerges out of that.

But to try to figure out where those where the characters are in the dictionary could be, you know, could be nightmarish.

I mean, there are so many possibilities.

So I'm so grateful for online.

I mean, sometimes I would spend the whole day trying to just find say eight characters.

It was so hard.

But I imagine that that process once you've steeped yourself in these different translations,

then when you read the Chinese, it must have a different effect.

It does.

Because you could just put it into Google and translate it.

Yeah, but that's useless for me.

It's useless because Google is not thinking the way poets think.

But I don't think different.

No, Dave.

Well, I.

Yeah, I.

Yeah, official intelligence.

Oh, yeah, just amazing.

Like Chinese.

Yeah.

Someone.

Yes.

Come on, translated.

When I reached book into Japanese.

By AI.

So it took him like a few hours.

But he showed it to me.

Some of the translated words a bit as a mind.

That's amazing.

You know, I have to of course change it to him in my own voice.

So I have been going through that and changing.

But it's amazing.

Some of the things they can do.

This is quite amazing.

Okay.

And I have one on this issue.

Okay.

I put up.

I put up an original poem by Saigo from our new book into chat.

To you.

Whatever that's called.

I don't want to chat something.

And I said English.

And it translated.

And then it said, do you want to know about this poem?

I said, yes.

It said, this poem is one of the most famous poems by Lebow.

And it told me all about Lebow.

But the poem was by Saigo.

So it said, and you want anything else?

I typed in this poem is not by Lebow.

This poem is by the American poet Robert Bly.

Who didn't know anything about Chinese.

So it wrote back and said, thank you for your correction.

You're absolutely right.

And then it told me, it told me all about Robert Bly.

So then I wrote in.

And I said, this poet, this poem actually is by my wife, Shirley Graham.

And it said, yes, Shirley Graham.

Shirley Graham lived from 1909 to 1970.

So I figured it told me all about some poet named Shirley Graham Dubois.

So then I finally wrote, this poem is by Saigo.

And it said, thank you for correcting this.

And then it told me about Saigo.

So forgive me.

I have no trust.

I wanted to see what was going on.

And I thought, I can't trust this.

It sounded like a not very bright sophomore in college.

Writing on a subject they didn't know anything about.

Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't trust you.

It doesn't trust me.

It's mindful.

See what I'm good at that.

Well, it's very interesting because I also love to play with AI and see what it can do.

But the kind of of flow study that I think we're looking at doing it a little this weekend.

And then it takes to translate poetry like this and to feel what it's like.

The kind of thing they do at St. John's where you go deeply into texts and try to understand what's in there.

I've got you from St. John's why I'm mentioning it.

That close study is not something, you know, I'm afraid for students nowadays who are able to use AI and generate these incredible responses.

And then you lose that entire process of, I mean, working a whole day on eight characters is like unthinkable now.

So think about that.

And so what could you say a little bit about the weekend and how we're going to dive into Hanshaw.

And I don't know what time we have about 15 minutes.

Oh, that's all cost you want to say?

Like first session on Saturday morning.

I like to read two poems, but also excuse me.

Talk about kind of recent studies.

There was a theory by Edwin Pulleback.

He was a Canadian scholar teaching at UBC.

And he was a great kind of scholar on Chinese phonology.

And he kind of noticed that these so-called ancient poems have two different rhyming patterns.

So the first pattern is tan dynasty pattern.

The second one is sung dynasty pattern.

Or like maybe seven, two centuries, seven century and then later on.

And then so there were kind of two Hanshaw poets with theory.

And then I think maybe he himself discovered that there's a poem with early rhyming pattern.

Talks about later times.

So it sort of collapsed.

And then I noticed that there are two types of early poems.

One is Taoist.

And then the other is Charlie, then King of terminology.

And they were since different.

And then I sort of developed a theory that there were three Hanshaw's.

So the first one, Taoist, second one, later times Zen or Chan, but used the early rhyming patterns.

And it's not difficult because there were so many dictionaries of rhyming.

So Han Dynasty or Tang Dynasty and then later on and so forth.

Anyone actually we can do that too.

Right Chinese style poems using some rhyming patterns of earlier times.

So we have three Hanshaw poems.

And in fact this book so presents the early poet and then middle time poet and then later on.

So I'd like to talk more about it, showing some kind of real conversations from Chinese and so forth.

And then after cause in the second session in the morning, I prepared them.

I don't remember now, but you know, I don't know six or seven or something, tones.

I want to sort of reveal.

The character, the character, I don't mean characters like Chinese characters, the characteristics of the poems that you find in Hanshaw.

The way Hanshaw went about getting those poems to be what they were, the nature of the language, the nature of the imagery, how he combined both literal and symbolic imagery in the same word.

All of that. As a way to encourage all of you, I mean everyone who comes, as a way to encourage you to see with sort of new eyes, that poetry can be made and constructed with these kind of characteristics.

And you can end up with very simple but very true poems based on the way Hanshaw went about it.

And when I was preparing for the retreat, I was really surprised to find that there was kind of three basic things that he did with his poems that carries through the book.

And there are things that we can do because they're based on simple words, language that is flexible and often quite surprising and kind of wonderful but simple imagery that goes right to the heart.

And that's whether he's talking about what we would now call say a homeless woman on the street who's being rejected or he's talking about the quality of his mind.

And Hanshaw's poems have a lot to do with the quality of his mind, starting with the very first poem.

And I'm going to deconstruct those so that people can I hope see a little more deeply into how that poem is being made and then use what we talk about what you see to make your own poems because you're going to be writing.

And not only that, but we put together five poems for people to pick from with just the character to word so you can do your own Hanshaw translations.

So this is a, this is based on I taught a class in translation for writers at UBC and Dr. Poliak was and also at Antioch in Los Angeles using this technique with many languages and just work, you know, original to English, original to English.

And it doesn't matter whether you know the language or not, you know the English and then from that you go forward and make your poem. So I think you'll really you'll find it very exciting people tend to when they're done pulling their hair out, trying to figure out what's going on and what to do. They they're very happy.

And we'll have that both for the in-person community and for the online community online everyone that we created a handout created a handout so everybody should have it should bring it, bring a pencil or a pen or whatever you don't computer but

and be prepared to be Hanshaw number four.

I wonder if I could ask for this community, especially who comes to to you pile often to sit Zazen, what's the relationship between poetry like this and our practice in the Zendo?

Is your hand only in people?

If what?

Questions, if you have suggestions or questions, is your hand away?

Oh, well, I was I was asking you would I was hoping you would speak to the question of the relationship between Hanshaw's poetry and Zazen sitting practice.

I think you know state of meditation is kind of freedom, you know, this is the key set.

All about then this freedom, so maybe John Cage and I said, okay, we can be free from scores or musical sounds or anything, we completely misunderstand.

Freedom means, you know, you follow the schedule, you know, and everything.

But your mind is completely free, you know, it can be very dynamic, you can be anywhere, you can be anything, you can become a butterfly and fly away from software.

That is poetry, so in a way, the state of meditation is poetry, in the poetry is kind of state of meditation.

You know, when I think about it, Kodo, one way to talk about some aspect of Zazen meditation is a Rochi Bernie, a glassman, such a wonderful person.

The teacher and so inspiring to so many people, he had three tenants, which he may know, not knowing, bearing witness, and we'll call it appropriate response.

And when we practice Zazen, that can, depending on our practice, can strengthen inside of us and help us to live by beginning without agenda and without putting our ideas on top of the world, and then bearing witness to seeing what is going on, what is happening.

The next step is, and now what do I do, or what do I choose, what's the right response in this situation.

Poetry requires exactly the same thing.

You can't enter, if you enter a poem with an idea, this is a great poem, this is just going to kill them when they read it in Cincinnati.

You have no poem, you have an appraire of writing a good poem because your mind is already filled, which means it's not receptive in the nuanced and subtle and delicate and sensitive way that it takes to actually touch something that you can't really quite get yet, but you can get to it by having that not knowing mind and then applying bearing witness to it.

And then what's the appropriate response, writing the right word.

So that, and this is really important, so that you have a moment of realization in the act of writing, and if we do that well enough, the reader will have an act of realization and a recognition on their own because the whole process.

So they, the process, right, feeds, feeds those abilities in both situations is much more than could be said about that.

That's just my spontaneous response.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And as we close our time here, I'd love to hear maybe one poem that you'd like to share from Hanshahn.

Well, my first digit, I know one, you know, yeah, I do want to ask though, are we allowed to think of poems while we sit as I don't.

Give you my honest response, I made a deal with my unconscious, which is, when I'm doing something, I'm doing that.

And if there's something you want me to know, you let me know in a way that I can understand and I will use it.

And that is how I relate to the poetry. I don't plan anything when it comes to writing poetry.

I just trust that I'm going to be given what I need to know and then I work with it.

Even if it's, all it is is maybe the wind brushes on my arm, but it catches me in a certain way because my mind, right, is saying, oh, that's what's that.

You know, so I start with the question.

So I don't, from speaking for myself, I don't work on poems in Susanne when I'm sitting Susanne, I sit Susanne.

I leave poetry alone so that it will like me and come back to me.

That's my answer is I sit Susanne.

Yeah.

And when I'm writing poetry, I'm writing poetry because it takes everything, both take everything you are in my view.

Because do you want to read poem?

No way.

You should be alone.

Yeah, I'll tell you one.

Once I moved to Cold Mountain, this is Cold Mountain talking.

Once I moved to Cold Mountain, everything was at rest.

No more tangled mixed up thinking.

In idleness, I write my poems on a stone wall, accepting whatever happens like an untied boat.

And that last line had a lot of dour�� and dour actuator that I spend with.

Again, themez There the flowy recently found these made a little bit of crazy history.

in it.

Once I moved closer to Cold Mountain.

So once Cold Mountain moved closer to Cold Mountain.

Once Cold Mountain moved closer to itself, everything was at rest, doesn't that sound nice?

Yeah.

No more tangled mixed up thinking.

boat. And that last line has a lot of dharma in it, and it is not to be understood simply

as accepting whatever happens so well, that's the way it goes. There's no resignation in

it to accept whatever happens means to know what's happening. And then like an untied boat,

when the wave goes high, how to write it, when the wave goes low, how to work with it,

now we get to appropriate response. So it is about freedom, but the functioning of freedom.

So that's why I love that poem. Thank you. Since the cause, do you have one home to share

to finish us with? Thank you both so much for sharing, and we're really looking forward

to this weekend. We join if you can. If you're able to, we do have space in person for both

for guests. If you want to stay here on this beautiful campus, or if you want to come

as a commuter, and we're also online. So join the online Mahasanga, and we'll have, I

think, since we're dying in, and we'll be online with some of the community, and we'll

have a way you can submit your poetry, and all of us can kind of take that in in that

way. We'll be reading to each other. Yeah, yeah, we'll be reading to each other. So here

are all the Hanshans. Ah, Roshi Joan will be stewarding the online Mahasanga. Great,

and reading all your poetry. Yeah, so please, just announcement, just if you're coming,

I hope you'll all come, but if you're coming, bring the handout, bring a pen or pencil

over like that. Online people, same thing, have it ready, because we're going to work

from it that very first morning Saturday, so I had it with you, please. You may want

to write some notes down. Wonderful, thank you. Okay, and so that starts Friday evening.

So join us at Comforzazan, where we won't be writing poetry in our minds. Promise. Promise.

That's going to be hard, but we'll be feeling it. Yeah. Next week, we'll have Sensei

Monshin, giving them a Dharma talk, and it's kind of a prelude to a jukai ceremony

on March 6th. Wow, we'll have a jukai on March 6th. Congratulations. Over 30 people, including

a few residents. Oh, my God. And so we actually invite, what's that?

Seven. Jukai is on the 6th. I hope so, because I wrote March 6th a lot. Sixth, right?

Right. You're very well in your family enough. Yeah. I love it. People say everything is one,

everything is one, but March 6th is not March 7th. It's doing a 22nd. And then we'll have another

jukai on March 22nd for the chaplains who will be here all the time. That's fantastic. That's

wonderful. So yes, and you're all welcome to come bear witness to this incredible ride of

passage that these bodhisattvas are taking to enter the path. And so tonight, because we have

Zensripal going on, we're not inviting the general public to dinner. So sorry, we wish we could feed

you all, but we will next week. So please join us after Monshin's talk for a communal dinner.

Oh, wonderful. That's great. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much.

And we'll end with the four great bodhisattvas.