DISAPPEARED: Kenny Veach and the M Cave

0:00Sometimes the scariest stories aren't supernatural at all. They're everyday stories of lies, deception, and betrayal. And that's exactly what host Josh Dean dives into on his podcast, Camillean. From elaborate cons to shocking double lives, he unravels stories of people who fooled everyone around them. Friends, families, and even entire communities. Because sometimes monsters aren't mythical creatures. They're humans hiding in plain sight. Listen to Camillean every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. Every once in a while when I'm overwhelmed by the real world, I think about how nice it would be to go camping for a few days. Who am I kidding? I'm sorry. I cannot say that with a straight face. Truthfully. I wish I was a camper. My version of camping is staying in a nice hotel. Please don't judge.

1:00I grew up in the Hawaiian Islands and we went to the beach during the day and went home at night. I have only camped a few times in my life, mostly because of softball. But let's just say camping is not my cup of tea. I need my own bathroom with a shower and clean sheets that I can snuggle into at the end of the night. I can't admit though, the thought of spending time reconnecting with nature, grounding yourself, and sleeping out under the stars can sound absolutely magical for some people. But if you're anything like me, then camping can seem absolutely terrifying. We've heard enough scary stories by now to know that's where things can get pretty spooky. Where cryptids creep, ghosts, galvan, and people tend to go missing. Much like the protagonist in today's case. In 2014, a man named Kenny Veach walked out into the vast Nevada desert with a plan.

2:02He was an avid hiker who loved venturing out on his own. And he wasn't going to meditate or star gaze. No, Kenny was seeking a mysterious cave he'd stumbled upon once before. One he believed had magical properties. But after Kenny went searching for it, he never returned. Which is why many are left wondering. Did Kenny find the spot he called the M Cave? And if so, what was waiting for him inside? Was it a wild animal, the entrance to a top secret military base, or something far more ominous? I'm Rasha Peckarero. I'm Yvette Gentile, and this is so supernatural.

3:05Just a mindful note before we get started. Today's episode includes discussions of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, you can always call or text the suicide and crisis lifeline at 988. Help is always available. And as always, please listen with care. As a professional podcaster, I have to say, it can feel very surreal every time I sit down in front of a microphone to record an episode. Because of course, I know a ton of people are going to listen to it, many of whom I've never met before. And of course, I'm always wondering if you're going to like what you hear. I'm a very sensitive soul. We all know this.

4:07I hate to hear if I mispronounce to name or misspoke about Harry Potter lore. We won't talk about Godrick's Hollow Gate, but the most important thing is that you all feel connected to us as part of our so supernatural, O'Hanna. Because when our fans come together to celebrate the work we do or connect with one another, well, there is no other feeling like it. I do love being in front of a camera or in front of a mic, but putting yourself out there as publicly as we have for so many years can be scary at times. But your outpouring of a Loha and support is what keeps us going. It's totally true. We always have you guys in mind when we're telling these stories because connecting with one another is the most powerful thing that we all can do. But what I will say, not every content creator goes in with the same intention. Some people post online without any desire to reach a big audience.

5:11All they're thinking is, how do I get my truth out there? Or how do I find someone who will get me or believe me? And that was the case for 47-year-old Kenny Veach. In 2014, Kenny created a YouTube channel under the user name, Sneatbit McGee. On September 2nd of that year, he uploaded his first-ever video, an hour-long virtual tour of his Las Vegas home, where he lived alone. Kenny was trying to sell the house so he made the video to show it off to prospective buyers. But in the video, Kenny kept bringing up details that had nothing to do with a potential sale of his home. He spent a long time talking about his passion for the outdoors. He explained that he loved getting away from his phone and computer and exploring camping and hiking. The house was very close to a lot of mountains, lakes and deserts, including the Mojave Desert, which is full of trails, old caves, and so many other places to explore.

6:16Kenny described how he often went on backpacking trips out there. There were usually pretty short, you know, just a day or two. But he was so passionate about it. He loved sleeping under the stars, literally. Like, he didn't even always bring a tent with him. Kenny also loved to collect animal bones, some rocks, and other things he found on his trips. Many of them were on display in his house, and you could actually see that on the video on YouTube. Unfortunately, the original video clip hardly got any views on YouTube, at least at first. I guess perspective buyers didn't want to sit through an hour long tour that mostly highlighted Kenny's outdoor adventures. Apparently, FitLightAZero offers, but it's what Kenny posted afterwards that got him a lot of attention. Well, Russian, I both watched the YouTube videos with Kenny, and there is something very endearing about this man, right, Raj?

7:20I completely agree. And he reminds me so much of the comedian and actor Will Forte. Like, he's just charming and goofy and sweet. And I just, I totally couldn't stop watching him. Same, the same. In the fall of 2014, a different user put up a YouTube video. One about something other than just real estate. Instead, it was about aliens and possible, you know what? Government cover-ups. And this caught Kenny's interest. He commented on it, and he said that he had a personal encounter with the supernatural. Kenny explained that at some point in the past, he was on a hike outside of Las Vegas. He was wandering far off the beaten path, with no trail in sight. Out, basically out in the sheep mountains. And that's a range that's about 40 miles north of Vegas in the Mojave Desert. And there are only a few primitive trails and no developed campsites there.

8:23So Kenny was completely secluded while he was out exploring. And as he was hiking along, Kenny saw a cave in the side of a mountain. It had an irregular opening that was roughly the shape of a capital letter M. Naturally, he wanted to check it out and see if there was anything inside. Except, as soon as he approached the cave, he felt this strange vibration in the air. It was so powerful that it made his whole body tremble. Kenny tried to power through and move closer, but the vibrations only got more intense. And that's when this sudden jilt of terror just washed over him. Kenny wasn't sure why, but every cell in his body began screaming at him to run away and just get the heck out of there. And guess what? Kenny listened to his instincts. He darted off and never went back. So he still had no idea what was actually inside the cave.

9:25Well, needless to say, this story got a lot of attention on YouTube. And before Kenny knew it, his account was blowing up with notifications. Other users were liking his comment about the cave and replying to it. A full on debate was happening in the comment thread. A lot of people found Kenny's story believable and fascinating. They wanted to see the cavern for themselves, so they asked Kenny to describe exactly where he'd spotted the cave with the M-shaped mouth or, as some users began to call it, the M cave. Others begged him to go back this time with a camera. Tons of people were asking Kenny to film this cave and then, of course, share the footage on YouTube. But there were also, as there always are, plenty of skeptics. People who thought Kenny was exaggerating or just making the whole thing up. They accused him of being a liar and an attention seeker.

10:26Soon enough, it was a full blown war between the doubters and the believers. They were debating in the comment section nonstop. And Kenny had never gotten this much attention online before. And he must have been swept up in all the excitement because on October 18, 2014, he posted a new video documenting his latest search for the M cave. It wasn't a live stream. Instead, Kenny had filmed small segments of his journey. Then he spliced them into a full 22 minute video. It's called the M cave hike. And it basically opened with Kenny standing near the entrance of a mine shaft. He explains that he's been hiking a long distance. And he still needs to cross another ridge to reach the vicinity of the cavern. Or at least he thinks so. Kenny admits he doesn't have a map to the cave. And since he's only been there once, he doesn't remember exactly how to get back.

11:26Then he pans over the horizon, talking about the areas he plans to explore. He gives a general idea of where he thinks he'll find the M cave entrance. But he also says that he's not confident he'll be able to find it again. Next, the video cuts to a new clip, presumably from a few hours later. Kenny claims he's still on his way to the cave. And while he doesn't have much more to say about the cavern, he does talk about some of the plants he's seen on his walk so far. And in the following clip, Kenny's at the bottom of a canyon. He notes that he's in a very remote area, far from any established trails. And he doesn't expect to see anyone else in this part of the mountains, because even experienced campers and hikers rarely come this way. He also thinks he's going to spot the M cave any second now. And the video continues with Kenny checking in at multiple points during his hike. Always saying he hasn't found the cave yet, but he sure it'll appear very soon.

12:30At one point, he even walks through a canyon that's absolutely packed with cave entrances. But none of them have that M-shaped opening that he's looking for. Finally, 19 and a half minutes into the video, and likely many hours into the hike, Kenny announces, quote, well, I did not find the cave that is so weird. I mean, I thought for sure that I was going to be able to find it. Well, despite Kenny's passion for the outdoors and finding the M cave in his video, the video was a bit of a letdown for some of Kenny's viewers. Not me, though, because I was very entertained the entire time watching him, to be honest. Same, but many of his commenters urged Kenny to go out to the desert yet again, and not to come back until he found the M cave, except for one. At some point, an anonymous user commented on Kenny's video saying, quote,

13:32no, do not go back there. If you find that cave entrance, don't go in. You won't get out. Kenny was a little thrown by the comment and the warning, so he replied asking, quote, what makes you say that? Only the original commenter never replied. And guess what? Kenny didn't listen. Instead, he reportedly told his girlfriend he was going to attempt the hike for a third time on November 10, 2014. He said he expected to walk through the desert all day, camp overnight, and then head back home sometime on the 11th. Then he got into his car and drove towards the mountain. But he didn't come back on the 11th, like he'd said, or the 12th or the 13th. The days dragged on as Kenny's girlfriend and family came to a frightening conclusion. 47-year-old Kenny Beach was officially missing.

14:38My name is Jack Wagner, host of Otherworld, a podcast featuring real people who experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained. I have no idea how I got there. I don't think I've ever seen anything that looks like this. It felt like electric stars on fire. I started Otherworld to take a grounded approach to the paranormal, help people tell their own stories, and encourage more to come forward. I certainly don't have the answers, but maybe one day we will. Join me as we explore our world's greatest mysteries. Join The Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. By November 17th, Kenny's girlfriend got worried enough to call the local police and report him missing. Luckily, they took his disappearance seriously. They knew how dangerous the desert outside of Vegas could be. Even in the winter, the days were hot and there weren't many natural water sources. It would have been easy for a hiker to get lost, run out of water, and become dehydrated.

15:39On top of that, the sheep mountains were home to predators like mountain lions, coyotes, and rattlesnakes. So rescue teams began an extensive search of the trails, mountains, and canyons to the north of Las Vegas. They also studied his earlier YouTube video, examining the scenery and the shape of the mountains he hiked through. They hoped they'd be able to identify the exact canyons and ravines he had been exploring. At some point after the search, the rescuers reportedly found his car. It was parked at the head of a trail, though they didn't say much else about it, like whether they searched the vehicle or even if they found anything important inside of it. Then on November 22nd, 2014, 12 days after his disappearance, they found a discouraging clue. Rescue teams located the mine shaft where Kenny had started his M.K.B. hike video. It was a few miles from where he parked the car.

16:41And when the search teams arrived, they spotted Kenny's cell phone lying on the ground right near the mine shaft. It was unclear if he had said it there and forgotten it or if he dropped it. I'm not sure if authorities tried to get into it for clues. I mean, I would think so. Wouldn't you think they would try to get into it? I mean, that's just my personal idea. You would think so, but this is also 2014. Right, but that's not that long ago. But I know that some of the rescuers feared Kenny might have put it aside before trying to climb down the structure. And they were basically worried he might have slipped and fell or gotten stuck. The mine was so deep, even rescuers were nervous about going into it themselves. So they reportedly tied a camera to a rope and then lowered that into the hole instead. And after watching the footage, there was no sign of Kenny at the bottom of that mine. And I just have to say again, in that video, if you watched that 22-minute video, he starts at the mine shaft.

17:42He takes his camera and he pans all the way down there and he's like, oh man, that's deep. I'm not going down there. So I can't imagine him even being down there. And I can't imagine him taking his phone out of his pocket. I mean, in the video, he even has a sidearm. He has a gun attached to him. Yeah. So I don't think a cell phone is going to make a huge difference in weight. Anyway, it was impossible to say if he'd actually hiked away from the mine afterwards or where he went. Since there were no trails in the area, he could have gone in any direction. The rescuers also didn't see any footprints, any broken branches, or any signs of where he'd gone. Instead, they surveyed the area around the mine shaft without any success. Days went by and eventually the rescue teams had no choice but to call off the search for Kenny. By this point, it seemed very unlikely that Kenny was still alive.

18:44He had no access to food, shelter, or fresh water. Even if he'd brought supplies with him, he would have used everything up by now, which is why officials assumed he was probably dead. After all, there were a lot of dangers in the area, any of which could have threatened Kenny's life. And we're not just talking about wild animals. Supposedly, the place is a hot spot for smugglers and drug dealers too. I mean, we aren't talking about Vegas. Russian you are so right because rumors say they often cut through this part of the desert to move their product. Mainly because it means fewer potential witnesses. It was also an alleged dumping spot for Hitman, who would make people disappear by leaving their bodies near the ravines, exactly where Kenny was exploring. So it's possible that when Kenny was searching for the M-caves, he stumbled onto something that he wasn't supposed to see. But that's just one online theory that's circulating about what could have happened to Kenny.

19:48The reality is, drug dealers and Hitman aren't the only ones out there in the desert with something to hide. Not too far away from where Kenny went missing is one of the most mysterious and potentially dangerous military bases in the world. A top secret location you might know, y'all. Area 51 The mineshaft where Kenny's phone was found was just 10 miles from the perimeter of Nellis Air Force Base, which contains Area 51. The infamous facility is officially known as Grum Lake or Homi Airport according to declassified CIA documents. And it's part of a much larger military complex called the Nevada Test and Training Range, which is also part of Nellis Air Force Base. And I'm almost positive that Kenny actually talks about that in his 22-minute video that he's near the Nellis Air Force Base, right?

20:49Well, the whole facility is owned and operated by the US Air Force. On paper, federal officials say they use Area 51 to test new kinds of airplanes. But there's a lot of evidence that suggests there's more to the facility than that. For one thing, every single operation that's performed at Grum Lake is automatically classified as top secret, literally every single one. It's common for other Air Force bases to occasionally host public events, you know? Athletic competitions, classes, air shows, charitable fundraisers, and so much more. These build community and serve as good PR. But Area 51 doesn't allow any civilians on the base for any reason. The employees aren't allowed to give interviews to the press or post about their work on social media. The facility even has exemptions to certain laws about waste disposal and environmental protections,

21:52so EPA agents can't show up for surprise inspections, or investigate whether they're following policies about recycling, pollution, or green energy. Area 51 was established in 1955, but the federal government didn't acknowledge its existence until 2013. That's nearly 60 years of pretending there was nothing there. So naturally, there are a ton of conspiracy theories about what really happens at the base. Some say it's where researchers are developing machines that control the weather, others think that the facility's developing a clean renewable energy source that can replace coal or gasoline, or that they're building a deadly weapon that could wipe out the US's enemies in a second. But most people believe the base has something to do with aliens. After all, Area 51 was founded just a few years after the 1947 Roswell incident.

22:53Since then, the facility has reportedly been the United States main hub for reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology. And that's not just speculation. A man named Bob Lazar went public with his story in 1989. He claimed to be a former physicist who'd worked at Area 51, studying wreckage from alien spacecraft. His story is truly wild, and if you want to learn more about Bob, Ashley actually did an entire deep dive episode on him, so make sure you listen to it, and we will make sure to list it in our show notes. But anyway, Bob's book, Dreamland, and autobiography is an incredible read. He spoke about how the base was reverse engineering these alien technologies to create some of the everyday items we have and use today. It's so true, Raja, there's some who believe we have aliens to thank for a lot of our major breakthroughs in the past 70 years.

23:57For example, microchips have made a huge leap forward since the 1950s, and medical innovations like laser surgery were unheard of 70 years ago, but now they're fairly routine. Plus, the military has a ton of stealth craft, or planes and boats that don't show up on radar screens. And once more, this technology has advanced in leaps and bounds since Area 51 was founded. And then you have the memory metals like night and all and near unbreakable materials like Kevlar, that also have been rumored to come from the alien tech, that Area 51 collected. We can't confirm if this is 100% true or not, but we know that to this very day, officials at Groom Lake and Homi Airport are very protective of the facility. They don't want anyone to even get close to their front gates. There are many reports of hikers and campers wandering off trails in the Nevada desert, getting a little too close to the base.

25:03The next thing they know, men with guns swarm around them and order them to turn around and back away. No one knows for sure who these men are, but people on the internet have nicknamed them the Camo dudes, because, obviously, they're always wearing head to toe camouflage. Rumors suggest that their private security contractors who are higher to protect Area 51. They're said to drive forward raptor trucks and work with local police to detain trespassers, and they're authorized to use force to protect this site if the situation calls for it. But, as far as we know, no one has gotten past them and made it out alive. So it's pretty spooky to hear that Kenny Veech may have gone missing near Area 51's backyard. And it's enough to make you wonder if maybe he wandered into a place that he wasn't supposed to be. Because according to some online speculation, the M Cave itself might be connected to the base,

26:07and one influencer supposedly has the video evidence to prove it. My name's Jack Wagner, host of Other World, a podcast featuring real people who experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained. I have no idea how I got there. I don't think I've ever seen anything that looks like this. It felt like electric stars on fire. I started Other World to take a grounded approach to the paranormal, help people tell their own stories, and encourage more to come forward. I certainly don't have the answers, but maybe one day we will. Join me as we explore our world's greatest mysteries. Listen to Other World now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. In the spring of 2021, seven years after Kenny Veech went missing, a YouTube influencer named Frank Schlichting went looking for the M Cave. Frank's entire channel was dedicated to cave diving and exploration of abandoned mines.

27:09He loved going into caverns to see what he could find, so it's no wonder why he was drawn to Kenny's story. A secret forgotten cave with magic properties was right up his alley. And thanks in part to his expertise, he actually seemed to find it. At least according to a video he uploaded on June 6, 2021, in it it showed the entrance to a cavern that's vaguely shaped like an M. He didn't explain exactly where it is or how he located it. All he said was that he had a friend who used to be in the military and this friend gave him a tip that was super helpful. Frank acknowledged that it was hard to find because the entrance is pretty small. Plus there's a short stack of rocks partially blocking the entrance. Almost like someone tried to wall it off at some point to prevent anyone from going in. When Frank got closer, he saw that the cave was pretty tiny inside too, maybe only a foot or two long and a couple feet tall.

28:12It looked like something an adult could only fit in if they were sitting or crouching very low. All in all, it was not that impressive. It wasn't even vibrating like Kenny claimed, so it's hard to say what's so special about this particular M. cave. That is until Frank climbed inside on his hands and knees. And he wanted to get a look at some kind of marking on the back of the cave. He couldn't tell if it was a natural pattern on the rock or if there was something written on the wall. But once he got in there, he could make it out better. It was very sloppy and hard to read handwriting, but it appeared to be a message that said either hatch or veech. As in, I don't know, Kenny veech possibly? Naturally, Frank's next move was to search all over the ground in cave walls to see if there was a hidden door, a hatch if you will.

29:13He ended up brushing aside a bunch of dirt and rocks. Plus, there was trash and old pieces of wood on the ground, almost like someone built something there in the past. He never managed to find a hatch or any other kind of entrance. But Frank did spot something else half buried in the debris. It was a metal sign reading quote, Area 51, morning, restricted area, use of deadly force authorized, no trespassing. As soon as Frank saw this sign, he decided to get out of there immediately and that is how his video ends. So Frank's video strongly implies there's some kind of connection between the M Cave and Area 51. And let's just say for the sake of an argument, there is a hidden hatch somewhere in the cave that leads to the base. If Kenny found it, opened it and crawled through, he may have hiked towards the groom-lake facility.

30:16And if he was planning to tell the world about what he found, well, someone with the government may have decided to silence him permanently. I mean, after all, we shouldn't forget about the warning that anonymous user posted on Kenny's YouTube comments. That person who told him, quote, if you find that cave entrance don't go in, you won't get out. Maybe the commenter knew that setting foot inside the M Cave would be a death sentence. That said, we can't rule out the more grounded explanations, including this one, which came from a woman with the username Sharon Pilgrim. Several months after Kenny's disappearance, she commented on his M Cave Hike video. She claimed to be Kenny's girlfriend. She wrote about how much she missed him and how sad she was that he was gone. And then Sharon dropped a bombshell.

31:17She said Kenny had been battling depression for a long time, years, in fact. Sadly, he'd recently taken a turn for the worse, and he'd refused to take medication or speak to a mental health professional. At some point, in 2013, he quit his job. She said he tried to start his own business doing interior decorating, but it never took off. Suddenly, his professional situation was dire. Sharon said Kenny struggled to pay his bills and without the structure and set schedule of a regular job, his mental health was getting worse by the day. Things were bad enough that Sharon worried he was thinking about harming himself. One time, she asked him point blank if he was planning to take his own life. And Kenny gave an evasive answer. He said if he ever did it, he'd make sure to die somewhere very remote and very hard to get to.

32:17He told her, quote, no one will ever find me. Now that he was missing, Sharon said there was no doubt in her mind. She was convinced Kenny had died by suicide during his hike to the M Cave. Except, Sharon didn't believe he'd passed away in or near the mineshaft where his phone was found. Instead, she thought he left his cell phone there on purpose. He knew people could use it to track his location, and he didn't want to be found. I have my two cents about this, you know, about her posting on YouTube. I just feel like if it were me, I would not put all this personal information out until I had more information. I just find it a bit odd. Right. And we don't know if it was Sharon for sure, the real Sharon. Yeah, this is true. I guess Sharon had another reason to believe this theory based on something she found in his home.

33:21Kenny's camera. Sharon knew if Kenny had actually gone back to look for the M Cave, he would have brought it with him. The whole point of this was to film the cavern. She figured Kenny left the camera behind because he knew he was never making it to the M Cave. He didn't even plan to look for it. This was evidence in her mind to confirm Kenny had died by suicide. But here's where things get confusing. In the event, I know you and I have our own personal opinions on what happened to Kenny. But I want to say, we do know Kenny had a girlfriend. He mentioned her a few times in his videos, but he never said her name or showed her on film. He always just referred to her as my girlfriend. So we have no way of confirming if this YouTube commenter actually was Kenny's partner or if she knew him at all. However, some of the details that the supposed Sharon did say do line up with what we know about Kenny's life.

34:29For example, it seems he really was stressed about money. We mentioned earlier that his first YouTube video was about selling his home. Except Kenny wasn't just looking to downsize to a smaller home or apartment. In that video, he actually proposed something quite unusual. He wanted someone to buy his house and then let him keep living in it rent-free. Kenny framed it as a live-in house sitter or caretaker. He'd spend his days at home handling upkeep and chores. He'd still get to decorate it however he wanted, keep all of his things there and come and go as he pleased. But technically, someone else could own it. So you're probably not surprised to hear that nobody was willing to buy the house under those conditions. As we said earlier, Kenny didn't receive a single offer on his home. But we know he tried other ways to make money as well. You can't blame him for trying right?

35:31You can't blame him. It was a very charming, very long video. It really was. His house was so perfectly in order with all of his things that he could tell he's an avid hiker. Like I said earlier, so Cassie has all these rocks and all these things from the Mojave Desert. Yeah, exactly. Anyhow, it turns out he posted another video on YouTube, an audition clip for the show Shark Tank, which is one of our all-time favorite shows. If you've never seen it, the series follows budding entrepreneurs who try to convince wealthy investors to give them money for their business. While in this audition tape, Kenny claimed he'd invented a new kind of toilet paper holder, which was supposed to be superior to traditional ones. He was hoping the producers of Shark Tank would see his great idea and bring him on the show. Well, unfortunately, before he even heard back, that's when Kenny disappeared.

36:34Just from watching his videos on YouTube, I believe he was truly trying to make his life better and maybe get out of financial debt. However, there is another possibility. One we mentioned very briefly, but could be like the most logical and grounded one we've covered so far. And that's that Kenny may have been injured in a fatal accident. I mean, being out there, you know, in the wild with all those canyons and ravines, accidents do happen. Unfortunately, Kenny had a history of going on trips that were supposed to last several days. And he wouldn't ever pack enough food or water. In his MKV hike video, Kenny explained that he intentionally avoided drinking enough fluids, sometimes only taking a sip or two in several hours, even while he was climbing and walking strenuous paths. He said, in the video, he wanted to test his limits and see how long he could go without taking a drink of water.

37:40That way, if he was ever in an emergency or a dire situation, he'd know exactly how far he could stretch his rations. But of course, this was a super dangerous practice. Not to mention that he routinely tried to touch or even pick up rattlesnakes on his adventures. Again, he apparently liked the challenge of handling them, and that's probably where his YouTube username, SnakebitMiggy, came from. Plus, Kenny enjoyed exploring areas he'd never been to before, and he never took maps or compasses or GPS devices with him. He didn't have any kind of safety net to stop him from getting lost. But the thing about this is, Kenny grew up in Vegas, and there's proof that he and his sisters and his brothers went hiking like when they were kids. So he's been doing this all the time. Not a long time.

38:40But yes, there is the possibility that he could have gotten trapped at the bottom of a steep canyon or he got stranded on the wrong side of a raging river. There is that too. There is, and Kenny rarely used the buddy system. He'd hike alone in areas he'd never been to before without telling anyone where he was going. And since cell phone service can be spotty in remote areas, this made it almost impossible for anyone else to keep track of where he was or find him if something went wrong. Let's just say Kenny went into the desert looking for the M Cave. And he may? Yes, okay, he may have gotten lost, dehydrated, injured, or bitten like you said by a venomous snake. It's possible he misplaced his cell phone near that minechaf by accident, and then he had no way of calling for help when he got into trouble later. Unfortunately, the truth is his friends and family might never have any answers about what truly happened to Kenny.

39:44Or they may know something we don't know because if you go down the rabbit hole of Kenny Veach like I did, you will have a ton of questions. Like, could he still be alive? The moral of the story is, the world is full of adventure. The world is calling us to explore deliberately, bravely, and with eyes wide open. Preparation is what grounds us and saves us. But curiosity, curiosity is what pulls us forward into the unknown. Because beyond every bend in the trail lies possibility. It's vast, mysterious, and just waiting to be discovered. This is So Supernatural, an audio check original produced by Crime House.

40:51You can connect with us on Instagram at SoSupernaturalPod and visit our website at SoSupernaturalPodcast.com. Join Roshet Me next Friday for an all-new episode. I think Chuck would approve. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman, host of the HyperFixed podcast. Each week, we take listeners' problems and try to solve them for them. Problems like, I'm 30 and I'm scared to drive in New York. Or, why can't I adjust the volume of my car stereo when I'm in reverse? We also solve non-car related problems. If you have a problem, not only will we fix it, we'll expose the hidden systems that cause that problem in the first place. That's the HyperFixed podcast from Radio Topia. Find it wherever you find podcasts or at HyperFixedPod.com.