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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fear Ones Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warsh on Next To Me Rachel Cruz taking calls about your life and your money

for the next couple hours.

So if you want to, you can get involved by Contrable 8255-225 in the meantime.

Go to the phone lines where we have Alisa who's in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Hey Alisa.

Hi, thank you all so much for taking my questions.

So we have been serves papers on an old set that we now are having to either go to court

and fight it or settle.

And so we don't have the money for a lawyer, so we've been using chat AI to kind of guide

us through.

And so far it's worked like, you know, if we've been able to prolong it a little bit.

So, but now, you know, I need guidance, I need real guidance on what to do and where to

go.

How long ago was this?

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm just nervous and then it's just very

emotional.

Yeah, stressful, stress, stress, yeah, yeah, okay.

So the deaths from 2007 or we took the loan out in 2017 and then like around 2019, it's

a so-fi loan.

It gave us 50 grand, it was great, we reconfulled it dead, it didn't work.

And so around 2019, I had a baby and then right around the corner of 2020, all of a sudden

I was home and had to quit my job and it was just my husband.

And we, we were kind of like, we missed a couple of payments and but we would catch up

and then right around the corner of 2020, like they just sold it off like it didn't matter.

Yeah.

And so we've been fighting it ever since.

They served us papers December 16th, I think hoping, like we only had 20 days to respond

and I think they were hoping that with the holidays, we wouldn't be able to find a lawyer

and we wouldn't know what to do, we just wouldn't respond.

But we did, we got it together, we put it in chat, chat gave us some information, we

sent it, they sent us back discovery, most of it redacted.

And so our next, like we were going to send another request for more discovery, but instead

we just sent them a pro say, if they would settle and say, what company owns the debt

right now?

Do you know the name of it?

Yeah, LVNV.

And what's the LVNV?

Yeah.

Okay, so Lisa, I need you to just understand who you're dealing with because I do think

that always helps the stress level, okay?

And bad debts, whether it's loans, credit cards are sold.

They sell them to a company, the company repackages them with other loans, sells it to another

company and it's been probably passed around, okay?

So you're dealing with someone who's sitting in a cubicle who's been on the job for probably

three weeks and will probably end up leaving in two months because the turnover rates

with collectors is constant, it's constant, okay?

So it feels scary and it's a big number, right?

So we're going to have to address it, but I do want to take some of the stress off of

who it is.

It's someone who honestly has probably the worst job on the planet who is calling and serving

people old debt.

And again, the intimidation factor is so big, but the reality of it's not Lisa.

So we have to deal with it.

So I'm not minimizing the situation, but I do want you to just realize the person you're

talking to or who even wrote the letter to serve, it's probably not even going to be there

in 60 days.

It's going to go on to someone else.

And then the company, envy, or whatever, Ellen, envy, okay, okay, there you go, yeah.

You know what Lisa, I used to back in the day when the credit card companies used to call

me and debt collectors used to call me, I used to just imagine that they probably had

more debt than I did, otherwise they wouldn't be working there and it made me feel a lot

better.

It made the whole thing a lot less intimidating.

Have you offered, so you have no money right now, have you offered to do any sort of payment

plan?

So in the past, like the past couple of years, we did a payment plan for, like they'll

do one for like 12 months and then after that amount of time, they'll hit you back up

and they want the whole amount.

Sure.

That's what's going on with your money now, that over the course since 2017 and even

2020 on, where we haven't been able to kind of stack together any money to make any sort

of deal on this or keep the payment plans going.

Tell us what's going on now.

So now we're doing better, like our income is getting up there in 2020, it just wasn't

there.

What is it today?

What's your income today?

504.

Okay.

And is this the only debt that you have or do you have other debts?

Okay, tell us really quickly about the other debts, so we can understand how this fits

in.

So we have 58,000 of like other debt and cars.

Tell me the, tell me the cars, what do they each total?

One is 11, and one is 15, and then the other debt is, I think there's two loans, like

small loans and then card cards.

Okay.

And we've been paying it down, like it was much worse than that.

So there is a light at the end of this tunnel, like 58,000 sounds really, really bad and

it is, and then we have a mortgage, and our mortgage is 175,000, but our house is worth

like 450.

Yeah.

So I just, with the numbers you're telling me, I don't see a world where you're not setting

up a payment plan, and in the meantime, stacking up a bunch of cash to settle.

I think, I think a lot of your trauma and shame about this lives in the past, because it

sounds like today, you have the ability to start getting this cleaned up, unless you

tell me a reason that you don't see that hope.

Oh, I do.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

I mean, do you think that we should settle?

Yes.

Yeah, you just have to have the amount of money to settle, and depending on how, I mean,

how long it's been and how long, you know, considering this was a, you stopped really

paying in 2020.

It's been six years.

So they're probably not expecting to really get paid, Lisa.

I mean, at the end of the day, they're probably, you know, they probably assume you guys

are broke.

So if you could, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

If you could get maybe 15,000, and that means you guys are going to have to limit your

life.

Like you guys are going to have to be working extra.

You're going to limit lifestyle.

You're going to do whatever you can, and you're going to get $15,000 as soon as possible.

And if you can hold them off till then, and then see if they will settle, if you can

somewhat get maybe back on a payment plan and then have an amount of money and say, um,

this is what we have.

What are your cars worth, the one that's 15,000, if you were to sell it, what could you

get for it?

Um, maybe 20 or 22.

You know what I do.

So one of these cars and be done with this today, hypothetically, I'd sell one of these

cars.

If you can get 24 it and you only owe 15, um, could get a $5,000 car, I get a $5,000

settle.

Uh-huh.

Is it paid off or I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I would do that.

I would clear that out, get more money per month, then I can add that up, and then I

can settle this debt very quickly.

That's what I would do.

It's going to be a major sacrifice.

But the way you cried when you came on the line, this has been going on for too long

enough, like far, far too long.

And I would be going to great extents to make this better in the next, I'd give myself

30 days to make this happen.

And if that means selling cars and driving junkers, then that's what I'm going to do.

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Alright, let's go back to the phone lines where we have Marie, who's in Phoenix, Arizona.

Hi Marie.

Hello.

What's up?

I have a little bit of an issue that I need a solution to.

I was scared about 10 years ago when I was on my mini-my-house, like all my jewelry.

Holy smokes.

Oh my gosh.

Right.

It was, it was considerable.

And as long as they're working, it's 70 more and fits.

When I came close to my daughter, we've decided on a plan and we opened a joint chicken

account and she has taken all the money, my pay, my social security, every month, and

gives me an allowance for food, gas, and medication, etc.

When I just did, she tried to send many and it kind of caught repairs, insurance, she

doesn't extra transfer.

We arranged to save almost $200,000 during that time, which is remarkable.

Oh my gosh.

How much of that?

How much of that?

How much of that?

It's all mine, but it's all in her name.

I don't have access to it.

Okay, yeah.

She did.

She sends me screenshots.

It's all still there.

Good for you, Marie.

Well done.

But I want this arrangement to stop, I've asked for several times, and she's just not inclined

to do so.

She still doesn't trust me, understandable, but I would like to have a mine.

It's not really available to me when I want it.

Okay.

And I don't know.

One time, I contacted an agency for older abuse in my area, and they told me to take

a name off the account, where I didn't do that.

I opened another account and I had no money to go there.

She found out, she came, she was not very happy because we account and transfer it back

to the joint account.

What is her, when that happens, what is she telling you?

Because there was a reason that this arrangement was made, what is it that she's afraid that

you're going to do?

She's afraid that I'm going to get pulled back into that scenario, and she does what

wants me to be penniless again, and I can understand it.

The scenario where you were scammed?

Yes.

Are there things, Marie, that you want to do with your money right now that she's saying

no to?

Well, I'm in my room at the end of last March, and I wanted to buy a condor or a town

house, and she wasn't on board with that.

She said, the only, well, that would happen if the property was going to be put in her

name, which I didn't have a problem with that, but it ended up, I had to move to the middle

place, and I have the lease now within the apartment.

So I had a line to ask to be able to use my money, or should I just pick it up and continue

with our arrangement.

You're not out of line to ask to use your money.

There's another side to this that I want to know more about.

Is she keeping you from, and here, I'm just going to based on what you said.

It sounds like something was so drastic that she was brought in to help you, and she's

probably looking at this, and I'm not saying that she's right, I'm just trying to get

both sides.

She might be looking at this going, you know, the best predictor of the future is the

past, unless something has changed, right?

So she might be looking at this going, I don't see why I would expect anything different

if I let her have access over to this money again.

So you might have to explain to her, here's why this is different.

Here's why this is not like it was before, because you said she's afraid I'll fall back

into my own old ways that got me scammed again.

So if you know that, my thought would be I need to help her understand why this is not

like that anymore.

And if you feel like, if you genuinely feel like maybe you've changed her, it's different,

then have that conversation.

And then if not, then I'd be talking with, I might have to bring a lawyer into it and

say, hey, this person is not moving away.

Yeah, it's hard.

There's such a fine line, Marie, of loving, you know, someone in your family by helping

the financially like this and then controlling them.

And so I don't know from her sake if she was on the other line that we talked to her

after, you know, doing the story she would give us, because my hope would be that it's

out of love and care for you, Marie, that she says, were you good with money besides

this scam that happened 10 years ago, when you were raising her, how was money?

And I was born and raised in Germany, my husband was in the area, he's passed, and we

were always ready for the leave.

Okay.

Okay.

So really, was it just this one scam that caused all of this?

Yeah, but it was massive.

It was like $600,000.

How did it happen?

Well, I met this guy on Facebook, he pretended to be someone he was not, and it took almost

three years, you know, that it happens more than, yeah, it was very, very, very bad.

Yeah.

I'm so sorry.

I'm glad she got that job made to protect me.

Yeah.

And that was 10 years ago, Marie, 2016-ish, yes, it happened, it started in 2015.

So what I would do to probably keep the relationship good with your daughter, and again, I'm going

to assume good in this call that she's doing this out of love and protection for you, is

I would sit down with her and I would have a road map to say, hey, this is what I desire.

At the end of this road, I want full access to my money.

I want to be able to purchase a condo because rent keeps going up and up and up, and I want

to be able to have a place to live.

That's modest, but that I own, and whatever that looks like for you, Marie, what the end

of it looks like.

And then, and then I would bring her in and just say, hey, what steps need to be taken

for you to rebuild trust?

Because it sounds like you guys have just been functioning in this and she may, she may

have decided already, I'm just going to do this to my, to forever, for the rest of my

mom's life.

I made that assumption.

Yeah.

So, so we want to break that for you and to, and some milestones, have a couple of milestones

and in the next 12 months, what are things that you can be doing that would give her

the confidence?

Because that feels reasonable to me.

And again, I'm assuming, Marie, this isn't, I'm saying all this, putting you in a good

light that you're being responsible for, that you're not off to the side.

You know what I mean?

Uh, so.

I don't, I don't even have access to online banking.

She, she sent me screenshots and I, I keep it over here.

Yeah.

So there's a point after 10 years that there's not, if there hasn't been other mistakes

or other patterns.

You should be.

You should be.

And for her sake too, that she's, she doesn't have to babysit you or, you know, rolls reverse

that she's your mom, right?

For a season, I think that's really good.

But over time, you probably do want this deal to, to dissolve.

But I would again, try to do it with her and like, what's the roadmap to get there?

And, and then I hate to say, but if she's, but if she's unwilling to do any of that, I

would be curious than her motivation at the end.

That's my question.

And I'd want to make sure that everything's above forward.

Yes.

On both sides.

So then how do we rebuild the trust?

That's the question.

How do we build the trust and how do you do it in a way that can still preserve the relationship?

Because if it really is, there's, like I said, there's probably more to the story on

her and more to the story on your in-mory.

But there probably is reason for both of you to feel the way that you feel.

Yes.

And so I like your idea of making that roadmap because I think in the end, that's going

to be.

And if the eight months or 12 months happens, then you got to start pushing, pushing more.

And maybe there's a transition even for the adult daughter to say, hey, the next step

would be that she does have access to her money, but your name's still on the account.

So you can first see it, see what she can actually log in to her own account, right?

And it's like, that's fair.

That's very fair.

So like, what are small steps that we can take to create more independence on Marie's

side?

Versus just having this hard black and white wall of like, either you do it or I do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It could be a both-and for a season two, you know?

Yeah.

But yeah, that's, that's hard.

And I, and I feel like Marie, to your daughter's credit, like we get the calls, we get your

daughter calling in and saying, my mom has been scammed.

How does 600,000?

Yes.

What do I do?

How do I step in?

Because she feels gullible.

She feels really vulnerable.

I feel like she could fall into one of these again.

And we probably would get it for that advice.

Sit down with your mom and say, mom, I want to be able to help you.

Yes.

And probably what the daughter is thinking is, oh my gosh, if something like this happens

again, I'll have to take care of you and I don't have the money to do that.

So all of this is really being done out of just of a abundance of caution for the future

is what it sounds like.

Yes.

That's what I would hope.

I'm going to assume the best here.

I assume everything's on the up and up.

Sorry, that's happening, but thanks so much for the call.

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All right, we have Sydney who's an Omaha, Nebraska, hey, Sydney, you're on the line.

Hey, guys, it's my question today and I know you've taken this call a million times.

But how do I persuade, that's not really the right word, but how do I inform my husband

that we no longer need the whole life insurance policy that his parents took out from him

as a child?

Oh, okay.

You don't need it because you think you should do term life or you don't need it because

you guys are self-insured, just somewhere you are financially.

We each have term life policies on one another.

Oh, okay.

You'll have term life.

Yeah.

We're good to go.

What's his reason for keeping the whole life?

So we have to talk about that recently.

It just gives him like a piece of mind.

He will be 32 in April and that's benefit on this thing is like 17,000.

Is he heading into it?

No.

It's just like growing or just sitting.

I don't really know.

I've been growing since he was a kid and there's only 17,000 dollars in it.

Yes.

If it's not costing you anything, what does it matter?

If it's just sitting there growing?

Yeah.

You know, that's a fabulous question.

One that I have asked myself.

I do know when he was a kid, his dad is in pharmaceuticals and I was a handful of times

where he would be out of work and things and they were unmedicated and so I think it's

just like that extra layer of security, whereas I'm like, we could take the cash value which

isn't a ton.

It's like three or four thousand dollars here's and yeah, use that for what?

Yes.

Well, so I'm ultimately paying off that it's I'm trying to win the war here rather than

the battle.

But you do have to pay off.

We do.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

That's that's more what I was getting at.

Is it just like a why do we need this?

Or could you really use the cash?

Well, here's what's frustrating Sydney.

This is how bad of an investment whole life is.

Okay.

So let's just pretend that they opened it up when he was a baby.

He's 32 now.

Okay.

32 years it's grown to 17 thousand dollars.

If you put 17 thousand dollars into the market right now in 30 years instead of it just

becoming another 70 thousand, you would have 1.1 million dollars.

So that's how crappy of an investment, like it's not even an investment, like it's

not, it's horrible, horrible.

So my motivation would be like let's actually put our money in something that's working

that will actually work for us and not grow at a snail's pace and if something really

were to happen to him, they're going to keep a lot of it.

You know what I mean?

You don't even get the full death benefit always.

So it is, oh, it's such a bad, it's such a bad product.

So from just the common sense perspective, I'd be like wouldn't you want to move 17 thousand

over to an illegitimate investment?

Absolutely.

You know what I mean?

Not that you can because you're going to have to surrender the policies so you won't

get that.

But for me, I'm like I just want to have things in my life financially that make sense,

like this isn't even make sense.

So not only could you use the cash to start paying off debt, but also let's be smart

with where we're putting our money and keeping quote unquote 17 thousand dollars in a whole

life policy that's not growing, basically, is not wise.

Well, what's the debt you're trying to pay off?

Yeah, so a little bit of everything, so like it's I'm trying to win the war rather than

the battle.

So my husband, he would sleep better at night if we had a month's worth of expenses saved

at all times.

Is it because you're your regular income?

No, no, it's just like what if the furnace goes out kind of a thing?

Okay.

And for this, getting rid of this whole life policy would allow us to easily share up the

savings account and then immediately go towards paying extra towards our debt.

How much do I have savings right now?

In savings, we've got 4,400, okay, and so go ahead, well, I was going to ask what's

a month's worth of expenses for him, six, six, okay.

So you, in your mind, you're thinking, okay, if I cause him to get rid of this policy,

which he doesn't, which he doesn't want to get rid of, but if I take that money and give

him what he wants, which is a month's worth of expenses, that's better than nothing at all.

That's you winning the war.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I think the war would be him getting on track with the baby.

Right, right, right, right.

And I get free.

I understand.

I understand.

Okay.

Yeah.

And after that, he's like, now we can go buck wild and pay off this debt.

Is that what he's agreed to?

More or less.

Yeah.

What's the less?

Um, just like we're not obviously following the baby steps to a T, you know, that would

be only having $1,000 in our savings account.

Right.

But is there another, is there another part that he's already said I'm not going to

do that or was that really, because if you're telling me, this is the only thing he asked

of me, Jade, he just, this will make him feel better and then everything else we're

off to the races.

I probably wouldn't argue much.

I'd be like, Hey, do it.

And then maybe over time policy, but we're going to start moving.

Yeah.

And if you told me that'd be like, great.

But if you tell me, Hey, actually, it's probably going to be, this was just one of many battles

and I'm just trying to get over this hump.

Then I'd say we have more conversations to have.

I love that you're trying to make progress.

I'd probably go ahead and do, I'd probably make that deal.

I'd be like, yes, if we, if we cancel this whole, I'd policy and you want the one

month there.

I'm not going to fight that battle today as long as we can go hard on this step going

forward.

That might be just the peace offering you need to make in order to get this thing going.

Yeah.

How much debt do you guys have, Sydney, to pay off?

About 180.

The bulk of that, my husband went to law school, so we've got about 110 there.

We've got about 15 on a car and then just shy of 14 on private loans that he took to

take the bar and then my student loans are 37.

Okay.

How long ago, Sydney, did you start listening to the show and wanting to work a new financial

plan, the baby steps?

Yeah.

Hi.

Last May, I had heard of Dave in the personal finance class I took in high school and then

a good friend of mine, her husband followed the baby steps, which is mind boggling because

if they are Catholic missionaries, I'm like, how did you do all of this and essentially

they just follow it?

It was the baby steps that helped it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

How old are you guys?

I am.

How old am I?

I am.

I'll be 30 this year and my husband will be 32.

Okay.

Great.

Can I ask another quick question?

I'm just trying to get a sense of him.

If you said to him tomorrow, hey, let's pretend you did the thing with the whole life policy

and put them on the side and then you said to him, hey, I've really been looking at

our car.

I think that because I looked and found that if we sell it, we can make $5,000 and not

have the payment anymore and then we can take that $5,000 and buy a junker car, right?

Another aspect of the baby steps.

If you told him that, what would he say?

So we've had that conversation before and he's like, absolutely not.

Okay.

So Sydney, I hate to say it and we don't have a lot of time.

So I just feel like I got to like just say it to you.

I think you guys have way of a bigger issue happening of being on the same page financially

than a whole life insurance policy.

And I wish that was just it.

But as we start peeling back on this, you guys aren't on the same page.

And it's, I don't want to say it's impossible.

It's just, it'll take a long time for you to be the one Sydney that pulls him through

this process and that to make progress.

And so you guys need to sit down tonight and you need to tell him Sydney how you're feeling

and what's going on inside of you because it's not just a whole life policy that that

would feel good if we, if he just cashed that out, that's great.

There's more to it.

You're, you have $180,000 in debt.

Like that's terrifying.

Is that scary?

Oh yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

So talk about that.

Sydney, talk about what you're feeling, the, the sleep that you're not able to get because

you're stressed, you're scared of something happens to you.

Do you guys have kids?

We do.

She's almost two.

Okay.

Yes.

And, and so I'm like, the, the weight of this whole issue of just your entire financial

picture is weighing on you and you're trying, which I applaud you to make a little progress

here and there, but it's not going to do much to me.

It really won't unless you guys sit down together and say, hey, we are in a marriage and

we've committed our lives to be a team together.

And we're going to tackle every, every area of life together.

In law issues, parenting issues, and our money issues, and we're going to be a team.

The money is the problem, the debt out there is the problem.

You're not the problem, looking at him in Sydney, you're not the problem.

How do we tackle this together?

And you're really not going to make a ton of progress, progress, Sydney, until that happens.

And I would push and fight for that for you to be heard and in what you're wanting

because it does not sound like he's going to do much in this process.

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All right, Caleb from Indianapolis, Indiana is on the line.

Hey, Caleb.

Hi there.

Me and my wife are on baby step four, debt free, and are looking at buying a house, and

we're having a disagreement about how much we should have as a down payment.

Oh, well, congratulations for getting so far well done on paying off debt and get ready

by a house.

That's exciting.

What are you looking to spend?

Thank you.

So we have about 90 grand sitting in a mutual fund, and a good starter house in the area

is around 150 grand.

What she wants to do is to spend 50 grand, no, she wants to leave 50 grand in the mutual

fund, and probably would have 30 grand as a down payment and 10 grand for closing costs.

I want to use the full amount so we can have an 80 grand down payment.

Okay.

If we do it her way, we're following your guy's rule, the payments would be around 25%

of our combined income on a fixed 15 year fixed.

What's the reason?

Okay.

The reason I'm willing to do the full 80 grand is so that in the future, we at least have

the opportunity to live off a single income, and I feel like that would make it easier

for a baby set of six.

Okay.

I see what you're saying.

So you're wanting to put 80, she's wanting to put a total of 50, did I understand that?

She wants to leave 50 and so be 30 grand as a down payment and 10 grand for closing costs

and fees and all of that.

So me looking at this right quickly, your way, the payments around 972, her way, it's

around 1400, I believe so, yeah.

Okay.

And your thought is we can go to a one income household later on if we so choose or at least

to have the opportunity of that.

We don't have any kids yet, but we're wanting to start trying within the next couple of

years.

Um, Caleb, what is she wanting to do with the 50 grand and the mutual funds?

She wants to leave it.

What is that for for her?

She just want to leave it.

She views the mutual fund as more of an investment.

I feel like it would grow more there than it would in the house.

She's very frugal and a large purchase is just uncomfortable for her.

Mm-hmm.

There's like an extra safety net for her in a way to have that, to have that available.

Okay.

I actually, I'm with you, Caleb, I think that that I would rather do that.

I think there's more security.

Once you have a home, it becomes the number one thing that you want to protect if you

ever hit hard times.

And so I kind of like the idea of saying, hey, if we do this, our mortgage will be so

low that even if only one of us were working, it would be okay.

And that feels way more secure in my mind than having some money floating on the outside.

Yeah.

Just floating.

How much do you guys make at your Caleb?

Combined around 80 grand.

I just got a promotion.

Okay.

Great.

How old are you?

I'm 26 and she's 22.

Oh, wow.

You guys are young.

You're young.

Okay.

I always hate giving like a gray answer because I know people want like a black and white, like

yeah.

I said she would do your way.

You're a Caleb.

I would probably say, I would lean your way to Caleb.

Like if someone, we just got this question on money marriage, they were gifted a big inheritance

and they were like, should we just throw it all at the house or should we use them for

investing?

We're like, yeah, just attack the house because you have all the time in the world to invest.

Yes.

You know, every single year you guys can open up a Roth.

You can fund your Roth with work, you know, while you're working and you will, you will

be fine at retirement.

So my caveats, my caveats are, you sound very buttoned up Caleb.

You sound like you love running your excel sheet and your numbers.

And sometimes when we're so in the numbers and so in a formula, we forget about life.

And I'm just curious if she sees like we're going to have to replace a car soon.

Like we're going to have to do a couple of big purchases and having the cash available

to help us do those things smoothly would be wise, right?

Like I don't know if that's the case.

But if that's something that's in her head, that's good to know.

Either way, either option you guys are going to be fine, Caleb, I really do believe that.

I think that you guys, you could follow the, yep, the 5% 20% down and be fine.

You could throw way more at close to 50% of it and be fine.

But at the end of the day, I would probably choose team Caleb just because I like having

a lower payment and you guys just have so much time on your side to save an invest.

And that and it does free up for, you know, 450 a month to save 500 bucks way more quickly.

So that if there was something like a vehicle or all of those things that it would be nice

to have a chunk of cash for, you could do it.

Yep.

That's right.

That's right.

Or maybe you'll meet in the middle too.

Caleb, you know, leave, I don't know, 25 in or something.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And then just for her to have a little bit of that security she wants.

So yeah, y'all can meet in the middle and be great.

But either side, I think you'll be fine.

I mean, you guys are so young and you're so on target that I'm like, thank you guys.

For sure.

You're going to be fine.

So final ruling, there's no wrong answer.

But if we, if we were forced to decide, we go, we go lower, the lower payment, they're

for higher down payment.

Yep.

Yep.

That's it.

All right.

I love it.

Thanks for the final answer.

Final answer.

Guys, Katie, who's in Billings, Montana, hey, Katie, how are you?

I am good.

How are you?

Excellent.

How can we help today?

Great.

So I am so confused when it comes to the world of investing.

My husband and I were not in debt, thankfully.

And we have been able to see about $500,000 in the bank.

Wow.

Well done.

I contribute, I contribute $500 monthly into a Roth.

My husband does not have one.

And the investing, I guess, the good thing that we do is just in feedies in the bank

at $3.75, we have about $200,000 in that.

But other than that, that's it because it feels safer to me and I, is that foolish?

Well, let me make sure I understood this right.

I thought you said you had $500,000 in the bank, but then you said $200,000 in CDs.

So some of it's just sitting freely in some of it's in the CDs or is that in addition

to?

Some of it's just in savings accounts.

Got it.

Okay.

Wow.

Why are you guys averse to investing?

What happened that made you feel squeamish?

I guess nothing happened.

It just, it's foreign to us.

Yeah.

And what you don't know can be scary.

And when it, exactly, and when it comes to retirement, like I said, I do.

I do put $500, $500 a month from my paycheck into a lot of account for myself, but you don't

see that money until I'm close to 60 years old.

Then I, a CD seems a little bit safer because it's just a month, 12 months return.

Yeah.

I'm kidding.

How old are you guys?

I'm 31.

And my husband's 37.

Okay.

So just to do a little calculation for you, oh my gosh, are you ready for this?

This is going to probably make you sick.

Ready for it.

Okay.

But really quickly in, if I, if you just dropped $500,000 in the market, right, this, and,

and, and average, I put 12% rate of returns.

I'm going to get mad at that.

I'm going to just do it for fun because it was way more than that.

Yeah.

There's some down the ears, but the past couple of years have been fantastic.

So I'm going to put 12% average.

It's actually been more than that, but I'm going to just leave that.

And if you did that right now at 31, by the time you're 67, if you just set, just let

this money grow, you would have $36 million, right?

Wow.

Wow.

So if you kept it in the, now if you kept it in the CD, which is averaging 1.7% interest

right now, I'm going to bump it up to two because I'm feeling gracious to the CDs.

You'd have, you'd have one million.

You'd have one million.

Sure.

Sure.

So, you're leaving $35 million on the table, Katie.

So what we have to realize is we need to understand this intimidating part of the CD.

We have money, which is investing.

And I get that.

There's a lot of people who use diversification, index funds, S&P 500, you know, you're like,

what is, what is all, like, what does this all mean?

So I would, because you guys have done so well.

I mean, it's crazy.

It's, yeah, crazy that you've saved this much.

I mean, this is, it's amazing.

You guys are incredible at 31 years old.

I would sit down with a smart investor pro in your area when we get off the phone,

Cristian will pick up and he can kind of direct you on the website where to go.

But you could, but I wouldn't meet Katie.

Meet with two or three smart investor pros in your area, okay?

And I want you to get number one a feeling from them because these are, and these have

all been vetted.

So these are great people, but you're going to naturally connect and feel more comfortable

probably with one or two over another, right?

And that's really important this process because anyone that's going to help you kind

of push the buttons and investing, you want to feel really, really good about.

And I would ask every question that you can think of, don't feel like, oh my gosh, I

feel stupid asking this.

I should know none of that.

And it actually starts to get the basics and learn what does this mean?

What does it look like if I invest in an index fund or a mutual fund, what types of

funds are out there?

I mean, there's so much you could be doing with this money to make you money.

It may kind of feel risky, but at the same time, compared to what you would make on the

other end.

Absolutely.

I think it's worth the risk that's not really even there.

The ups and downs are real, but the overall picture is pretty bright.

So that's what I would do, Katie.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

It's still me, Jay Warsaw, with Rachel Cruz going straight to the phone lines where we

got Jeff and Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Hi, Jeff.

Hey, Rachel, Jay, how are you?

I'm honored to be on the show.

Awesome.

We're glad to have you.

I discovered the Ramsey show about six months ago, and I've been following a lot of the

principal and got a question for you.

OK.

So I'm 37 next month, my wife is 31, and we have been putting away money investing every

time and investing in future growth for ourselves for a little bit later on.

So we, in our community, the children live next to the parents, relatively close next

to the parents, and we have bought three residential, single-family residential homes for our

children to be able to live next to us.

We got three girls.

Yeah, we bought three homes for us.

We want that we want our girls to live next to us.

So we bought the three residential homes so they can live relatively walking distance

to us.

OK.

How old are the girls?

Eight, six, and four.

Wow.

You guys started early with the purchases, I mean.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We definitely wanted to start early, and we got great interest rates.

We bought it when the COVID rates were around, and the two's, and then the three's.

OK.

So right now, we got ten of the year that covered the, with the COVID rent until, you

know, it's time to give it to them where we feel the time is right.

And my question goes like this.

My wife and I have had some hard discussions about these homes, and we've came to the conclusion

that most likely the kids will not want to live because the area is changing, and most

likely, the kids will not live next to us.

Sure.

Yeah.

So what happens is we find ourselves in an interesting position.

Right now, we have ten of the covered the mortgage, and we have a little bit of extra every

month, like twenty to one hundred dollars extra from the three homes every month.

And we've been doubting ourselves as this is the right path going forward because we are

thinking to cash out these three homes, sell them cash out 1.65 million dollars from,

you know, basically what the down payment we put in, what you get out of equity, out

of the three.

The equity is 1.65, take us 1.65 minus the taxes, and we would have to pay on that, which

is about, let's say, we'll end up with like one three or something like that.

OK.

Yeah.

And put the one three into an S&P marriage fund where, let's say, twenty years down the

line.

That grows to a huge number.

Yes.

And then if they want to live an XYZ area, OK, here's a million out of go buy the house.

Genius.

Genius move.

No.

So my question is, is that the right move or should it just let the house keep on being paid

off by ten and what do you guys own your, do you guys own your house, Jeff, you and your

wife or do you sell them over on it?

No, we actually have a two person rate.

Yeah.

We own our house straight up.

We actually have like one point three equity in our own home.

OK.

And you don't owe anything on it.

No, we do.

It's worth about, what do you owe on it currently today?

Three, six, eight, but it's worth one point three.

No, no, it's worth about one point eight.

That's great.

Oh, it smokes.

Way to go.

Maybe one nine even.

You know what I would do?

If you're offloading the three houses for the kids, I'd take a little of that money.

If you said the whole thing, you'll walk away with one point three.

I'd probably take some of that and I'd pay off your house and full and then I'd invest

the other million and you will be, and then invest your mortgage payment back into this

fund for the girls.

Uh-huh.

Even though, now I've been listening to Randy, I know you've got to say you pay off that

motion no matter what.

So my question is, I got a two percent rate with 15 years exactly to go.

Even though it's two percent, pay that off.

Yes, because you're the guy who would take the full mortgage payment that you were paying

and you'll invest it in that.

You'll invest it.

I can tell that you would do it.

It would rather make 12 percent than 2 percent.

Yeah.

Right, right.

I hear that.

Yeah.

And Jeff, too.

Well, my question is, would you sell the three homes?

That's my question.

Yes, I would.

You would.

I would only because the reason that you said you purchased them was for your kids to live

in them so that they could be close to you.

That was the number one reason.

And that's the only reason I heard, by the way, and so much life.

And when you told me they're ages 46 and 8, so much can happen in that time.

Number one, like you said, the neighborhood can go down.

Number two, they're three different women who will have three different lives that could

go in any direction.

Yes.

I would never want this for you, Jeff, because I know how much you love them.

But she may, she may meet a, meet a, meet a mic and then just moving, moving with

her husband.

You don't need me somewhere.

Yeah.

Or you get a different job and you want to move like there's so much life that can happen

over the course of the next 18 years or so.

And so for that reason, I think you'd probably get a better bang for your buck and have more

freedom with the type of investment that you were talking about.

And when you told us the spreads on the rent, it wasn't all that great, either.

Right.

No.

Like, no, we don't end up making money at the end of the year because here in HVAC

breaks and as you break even, and what is your principles going to?

Yes.

Okay.

So I have clarity on that.

I'm sorry.

I'll make it quick.

No, go ahead.

What is the right?

So again, I'm 37.

My wife is 31, 32 next month.

So what is the right age to write a will today?

Really?

Yeah.

Today, because you've got, especially because you've got minor kids and there's a big part

of the will that's going to decide what would happen to those kids of God forbid something

happened to you and your wife.

If you don't make a will today, the courts will decide that.

For that reason alone, there's many other reasons, but for that reason alone, I would

be sitting with a lawyer today.

It's a mess.

Yeah.

Jeff, one of the Ramsey Persona's that hosts the show, George Camel.

He has my favorite line.

It's like, if you hate your family, don't do a will because it's so, it creates what

would be a horrible situation.

Your whole family trying to untangle your whole life and from the financial sense and try

to figure out what is happening financially, what's happening with the girls.

I mean, it just, it can create so much stress, but when it's all laid out in the will, if

you go to mom of their legal forms, Jeff, you can do a state-specific will with them.

Your estate might be a little bit more complicated once you guys get into it because you own multiple

properties and different things.

So you may actually want to sit down with in a state attorney just to draft one up.

But yes, I would do a will today.

And I just want to applaud you, Jeff.

This is such a success story, like what you and your wife have done because we talk

about changing your family tree.

And that's in the way you view money, the way you handle money, the role that money plays.

And when you're deeply in debt and you're living paycheck to paycheck, and life is so

stressful with money, that's the environment your kids grow up in.

But you guys, Jeff, have made such great decisions.

Your girls not only are in an environment that's peaceful when it comes to money, but

you're also going to literally live out changing their family tree.

Like if you bought your girls a home, and they never had a mortgage, and then they invested

that mortgage payment for the rest of their life, and then their kids, that's generational

whilst working for the good.

Do you know what I just want?

Right.

I just want to add one comment that, first of all, I wish I would have found the Ramsey

Duranzi show early, I only found it six months ago.

But I will say that I grew up in such tremendous poverty, and I'm the oldest of the family,

oldest of eight.

I'm a family of eight.

I was the oldest of eight.

I can't even tell you what kind of poverty I grew up in.

So when I became an adult, it was such a drive to really, really, really, and when I discovered

the Ramsey show, I'm like, oh my gosh, the match made in heaven, they told my wife.

I love that.

I love that.

You guys are amazing.

You guys are so proud of you.

Yep.

And your kids, they're going to be so much better for it.

I can tell you're going to raise them to be able to actually be great stewards of this

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All right, let's head back to the phone lines where we have Chris who's in Montana, big

sky.

What's going on, Chris?

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

So I make about 4,500 a month gross conservatively, monthly bills, including my car around 3,200.

And after recent divorce, I live with my parents paying 400 a month while I kind of stayed

alive, my financial life.

In that time, I've lost over 180 pounds, had a major skin removal surgery and I'm kind

of getting back to where I'm feeling disciplined and focused.

But my biggest concern is my daughters.

So both of them have a genetic condition that's called Dicer 1 syndrome.

My youngest is clean so far, but my oldest has cysts in her lungs, kidneys, and brain.

Oh, no.

So sorry.

And we're happened to monitor that very closely.

So I'm trying to find the balance where in the event of a very possible medical issue,

I have a comfortable savings buffer beyond that base $1,000 emergency fund and where the

balance is between how much should I have there just in case, because what we regularly

go from anywhere to see out of children's hospitals for the girls, which is about 8 hours

each way.

How often do you foresee going to, do they have them removed every once in a while, is that

how it works or what's that going to look like for you long term medically?

So right now, it's just monitoring and they can sure that they don't grow anymore than

they have.

She's got one in her left kidney that has grown at a concerning rate, so they've got

medical boards meeting on what's the best decision because, I mean, you can operate

with just one kidney, but if we take one out, you get a one very, very bad, an issue

area.

Yeah.

How much, Chris, on average, do you think you guys are spending a month on this?

Or is it, or is it, or is it every like four to five months, something comes up or

every eight months?

What's the calendar?

It's about, it's about four times a year that we have to make this trip and each trip

is around probably $6,800.

Okay.

Okay.

So it doesn't, you don't hit your deductible.

It's just straight out of, everything comes straight out of pocket.

Um, so they are, so that's all travel expense in hotels, they're under Montana Medicaid.

So okay.

Okay.

They're taking care of that.

Okay.

So what otherwise would be?

Yeah.

So what I probably would do, because how much debt do you have?

Including the car totals of the 30,000, 30,000, okay.

And you're, I'm sorry, you're divorced.

I am.

Yeah.

Okay.

Is your wife that, that's $6,800?

Is that, um, splits between you guys or is that what you're paying and then she's paying

the same amount too?

What does that look like?

Um, I generally fund it.

I'm in a better financial position.

Um, and she'll help with, uh, a hotel, uh, everyone in that kind of thing.

Okay.

I gotcha.

Okay.

Um, so what I would probably do, because I mean, Jade and I are both moms and I'm like,

I would do anything for my kids.

They're, they're number one paying off debts.

Amazing.

And we want you to be able to do that.

But taking care of our kids and making sure that things first.

Yes.

So what I would probably do is have a different account, um, that would be kind of like my,

the girls account, if you will, and I would make sure I have $800 in it.

And then when you use it for a trip, my, I would pause the debt snowball, refill that

and then go back to the debt snowball.

But I would have that 800 continuously in an account, even if that means pausing the

debt snowball for a bit, um, and throwing money at that to replenish that account.

But that's the one I would keep consistent.

And then if something changes, Chris, if you guys get a different diagnosis or you see

she's going to have to have surgery and there's going to be more expenses either on the

travel side or anything medical, that's when we would pause the baby, that's when we

would pause baby step two and, and build back up a bigger emergency fund.

That's probably what I would do just because it seems consistent.

But yeah, um, tell me about the, the state paying for it.

Is there, um, is there an income that if you hit a certain income, the state will no

longer pay?

Yeah.

I'm, I'm sure there is, and they go through their mom with that side of things.

Okay.

I was going to say is that on your side?

Okay.

So your income can go up as much as you want and it won't affect their care.

Yeah, but they still get consistent medical care with Montana.

Okay.

Good.

So on your end, I would then be doing secondary to what Rachel said, I'd be doing

everything I can to blow my income up as far as I can.

How long is this deal going to be going with your parents?

The $400 on my side.

I said, they're very flexible, though, I have it as long as I need it to get up on my

feet.

Okay.

Like, what's your thought in your mind on that?

I would really like to be out of there and two, three years at the absolute most.

Okay.

Okay.

And you guys just split custody of the girls.

Is it, how does that work every year?

Thank you, Shifty.

Yeah.

So Sunday to Sunday, I have a week at a time and then they go back to my home.

Okay.

So I'd be looking for a side hustle or something that, when that week, that they're not

with you, that you can just go crazy on because I think for you having that fund for

medical and then getting this debt paid off, that is.

Going to relieve so much stress, like there's enough stress with the diagnosis of this

that getting the financial side in order as quickly as possible is going to do a lot

for your soul, you know, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I would do.

That's what I would do.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, Chris.

You guys are going through that.

It's horrible.

Yeah.

So heartbreaking.

Very tough.

But you've got a plan now and that can do a lot, a lot of peace.

And who you're going to be, even in the next two years, Chris, what you've done so far from

my health perspectives, unbelievable, losing 180 pounds, like you are amazing, amazing.

So keep on the track because you're creating a whole new life for yourself.

Chris, we're proud of you.

So good.

All right.

Thanks for the call.

We've got Jackson next in Boise, Idaho.

Hi, Jackson.

Thank you for the call.

Hey, you can be on here kind of an expect to be on here, but it's awesome.

Before we're glad you're here.

Glad you're here.

How can we help today?

Yeah, it's really cool.

So yeah, so I, I'm getting out of the military, I'm 100% disabled, prominent in total.

And so I get the via health care for free, however, you know, I do want to have a family

at some point.

And I've heard a lot about like HSAs and my kind of question is, should I kind of open

up another counter, open up, get other insurance for the sake of an HSA or should I wait until

kind of that bridge comes free?

You don't have the family yet.

You're not married or with kids yet.

Yeah, I mean, just, are you just saying for the, for the possible ability to invest in

the HSA?

Is that what you're talking about when you said you've heard of them?

Yeah, I've heard a lot of like the tax advantage of this stuff and so I kind of figured

it'd be good thing investment wise, but also like the health insurance thing.

I mean, well, right now you're fully covered by VA, right?

Yes.

So you don't need the coverage and your family is not here yet for them to need the coverage.

And so then when you think about it from an investment point of view, it really is on

down the line from other ways to invest.

I would rather you invest money in a Roth IRA if you could or something like that before

I'd go to an HSA.

It's kind of just like, once you have it, it's very nice to have, but it's not something

you have to seek out and go get for that purpose.

So for that reason, I would say you're just fine as you are.

Yeah, as is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you have an option, like Jade said, if you're using it above healthcare for an investment,

but that's after you've maxed out whether it's 401Ks, you know, Roth IRAs.

Roth IRAs, I mean, all of it.

It's just another investment vehicle, but at this point in life, I think you, yeah, I probably

wouldn't, I probably wouldn't hassle with it because you have great healthcare with the

VA.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, that makes sense, and I just want to appreciate you guys helping.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much for the call.

It's a good question.

Yeah, HSA is, you know, they're, they're really great, like you said, they've got that triple

tax advantage.

And a lot of people, if you know you don't need to access the money for health, yeah, go

ahead and invest it.

Usually you can invest it.

There's usually a minimum of like a thousand dollars that kind of has to stay liquid and

then you can invest the rest.

And over time, it'll just convert into a normal, like IRA, you don't even have to use it for

medical expenses, which is, it is, it is nice to have that.

But if an HSA is not the right, a high deductible plan is not right for you, I would not get

the plan simply to have access to an HSA, that's right.

Absolutely.

Yeah, because saving and your emergency fund and stuff can cover some medical things that

are out of pocket where the HSA may step in and do that if you are using it for medical

purposes.

So there's ways around it for sure.

It's great if you have it, it's just kind of another tool to invest in, but definitely

not necessary and probably wouldn't move mountains for it.

No, I definitely wouldn't move mountains for it.

Thank you so much for the call.

This is the Ramsay Show.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball

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You know, we heard all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and

suddenly, everything changes.

Yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

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The truth is, we wish that we could get to every call and every question here on the Ramsey

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But we can't.

I mean, there's unlimited amount of time.

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So if it ever seems like we cut you off, it's because you got to make that clock.

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head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

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if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Love that.

All right.

Welcome to the KELIMBS Ohio highway.

Hi Katie how can we help?

Hi many Miss Katie.

I just wanted to see I recently got a $2.6 million settlement and I just wanted to

figure out what I should kind of do with the money.

Oh wow, I have a mortgage and I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should pay

that off or not.

Yeah, what was it from the settlement?

It's a lawsuit.

like, but you're okay.

There's nothing.

Is there anything we should know

about you going forward or you're all good?

I'm all good.

Yeah. So no ongoing medical issues.

Is there anything out of it?

No, not yet.

Okay. Okay.

How much is your mortgage?

My mortgage is $190,000.

That's how much we have on the principle

and I'm at 2.75 percent.

Okay.

Is it just you or do you have a family?

I have a husband.

I don't have any children.

Okay.

Yeah, my husband is a student right now.

And he's working on becoming

at your traffic controller.

Oh, how old are you guys?

I am currently 30 and my husband is 31.

Okay.

And do you guys have any other consumer debt?

Let me see.

We have 105 from student allowance for me.

I'm a nurse.

Okay.

And then my husband,

he's going to be about 150 total.

Okay.

Great.

And then but no car payments,

credit cards, anything.

Cards is 25K for me.

And then my husband is,

he only has that 6K left on his.

Okay.

Credit cards?

No credit cards.

Okay.

So my biggest question would be

before we get to the 2.6 million,

let's pretend that 2.6 million,

whatever happened caused that to come your way,

never happened.

Were you already on the track to say,

you know what, this debt is kind of crushing us?

We need to do something about it.

Had you already kind of been looking at that

or kind of tell us how you arrived at calling the show?

Was it just the 2.6 million?

Yeah, so I mean, basically it's the 2.6,

but in all reality,

my husband once he graduates from school,

our plan was to immediately start attacking that

as much as we possibly could.

Okay.

I've been working 60 hours a week currently.

And I make about 120K annually right now.

Okay, okay.

So as long as I just wanted to,

before we started saying,

you need to take this money and pay off the debt,

I wanted to make sure like philosophically,

we aligned on the idea that debt is.

No moving forward.

If it gets paid off,

that we're not going back into the habit

of taking out debt for stuff we want.

Oh, absolutely not, no.

Perfect, perfect.

Yeah, because sometimes you can come in

with a lawsuit like this or inheritance

and just in one sweeping motion,

be completely debt free even your mortgage,

which is amazing.

That's where we're going to guide you to,

but it comes back.

But if that behavior, yes,

it hasn't been changed or the belief system

hasn't been changed,

you'll be right back into debt and how quickly,

I mean, 2.6 million is amazing,

but yes, we just want to make sure that you can,

yes, sustain a lifestyle that still makes sense.

So yeah, so, yeah, Katie,

I mean, what I would do is,

yeah, it looks like you guys will have

a close to $200,000 in debt,

not including the mortgage.

If you include the mortgage,

that's around 400,000 after all the student loans

and everything.

So I would pay everything off,

that would leave you 2.2 million.

And, yeah, there's really three things

that you can do with money,

and I would do all three at some capacity.

You can give it, you can save it,

and you can spend it.

So I would look to see,

what are things that you and your husband really care about?

I don't know if you are someone of,

that practices a certain faith

or if there's things in the community that you guys,

I mean, as a nurse, I'm sure you see a lot.

So I don't know what that looks like for you,

but any level of...

We throw to church every Sunday.

Okay, yeah.

So any level of generosity is gonna be,

I think an important part of this picture,

just because the practice of that,

I think it's just, it's an amazing thing,

and it changes who you guys are.

So I would be giving...

I do have a question about that, actually.

Yeah.

And it's just because,

and I don't mean to break you off,

but basically with the other financial advisors,

we talked to you three different,

but we're still trying to figure out who to go with.

Yeah.

Everyone seems to have a different opinion

on gifting money to family,

because they don't want it to turn into

a transactional relationship,

and they don't want it to change the relationship dynamic.

What is your opinion on that?

Because my husband and I are both,

you know, we both want a gift,

but we want to make this so that it's not like

a reoccurring thing or an expectation with family.

Yes, that's, I think it's great advice,

because you can easily, yes, get into that where,

it becomes a habit that Katie is suddenly so rich,

and we can just go to her when we need things.

Yeah.

So is there, is there something that you guys have

pinpointed with your families,

like maybe paying your parents' house off,

or like, is there a thing that you're thinking about,

or are you just,

okay, what is that?

What are you guys thinking about?

So my in-laws, my parents are unfortunately not around,

but my in-laws, they were thinking about

gifting them with a car.

Their car is on its last leg and they need a new one.

And they're, so I was thinking about that,

and then also getting on, you know,

giving my, giving my brother some money to,

he's got some health issues going on as well.

Yes.

So.

Yeah, I, I would be okay with that with some,

like, very communicated boundaries around it.

I think just the idea of it just happening,

I probably will be a little bit more intentional with it.

Okay.

So I probably would sit down with his parents

and just say, hey, you know,

we've been put into position

that we're able to do some giving

and we would love to help replace your car.

And here is, I almost would,

this may be sound too controlling,

I almost would go ahead and just buy it.

And it, and it, and it, 100%.

Yeah, I was gonna say,

instead of giving them cash,

and a very modest car.

Yes.

But, you know, but a good car, right?

Like, it spends some money on it.

Do your family members know about the 2.6 million?

Do they know this happened

and that you got to large some of money?

Not at all.

And I don't plan on sharing.

Perfect. That's great.

I think that's what I was gonna say.

So I think you guys can kind of like sneakily come in

and help them in that way.

And then your brother,

if he has outstanding medical bills

and you guys wanna pay some or all or whatever you decide,

then again, if you can not just give cash,

pay the bill, pay the bill,

pay for the, pay and get the actual car.

You know, that kind of thing I think is helpful.

And, but I think that's the way to,

I, yeah, that doesn't like freak me out.

I think that, I think you know the person.

Like, you know the type of character that someone has

where they maybe have the propensity to take advantage

or they have the ability to, you know,

you give them an inch and they take a mile.

And if you know these aren't that sort of,

this is not that sort of person,

then I would do that in two seconds.

Yep, absolutely.

And I think it's a great blessing.

Yep.

Really good.

Yeah, and then.

Thank you very much.

Yes, and then investing some to Katie and spend some.

You know, if you guys need some upgrades on some things,

or you wanna take a great trip, yeah.

Leave some room for that,

because you don't need to be working

60 hours a week anymore.

You know, I wouldn't change your work.

I would still be contributing and still be going to work.

I think that's just good in general for a person.

Yeah, you don't want it to take away your sense of purpose.

Yes, that's right, you know.

Yep.

So I could see spending a reasonable amount,

like you said, on things that increase your day-to-day

quality of life.

It's Spotify premium if you haven't already paid.

I mean, come on.

Yeah, it's some of the enjoyment of life.

I think that's great to up some of your lifestyle a little bit.

Yeah, and just be really intentional.

Be aware, and then again, be sitting down with an investment

professional that you guys feel good about,

and invest a good bit of this money,

because this will take you guys on into a time,

yes, into retirement, and completely change your life.

So I hope that helps Katie.

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Today's question comes from Daniel in California.

He said, I'm 28 years old and have $100,000 in student loans,

car loans, credit cards, and a 401k loan.

My girlfriend and I have lived together for three years

and recently got engaged.

Would it be better for us to alope and then save

for a formal wedding once my debt is paid off?

Or should I pay off my debt while she saves for the wedding?

She has no debt.

I'm currently working both full-time and part-time

to knock out what I owe.

Oh, man, this always hurts my heart.

I was on the show with Ken because Ken is not anti-wedding,

but he's like, just don't worry.

I know.

It's one day, it's one day.

I love a great wedding.

So it always hurts my heart when I'm like, just go alope.

But I would.

Daniel, after three years, go tie the knot.

And then you guys can save up and pay for a great wedding.

So I would go down the courthouse, make it what it is,

and then you guys save up for a fun party.

And I think that-

I would do it.

So I would go get married.

But again, it kind of hurts my heart a little bit

because I love a good wedding.

I do too.

She's going to be the one that feels this.

Yes, probably.

But that's going to take a while.

Even if you're working a part-time job,

and you know what I mean, I'm like,

that's going to be another two and a half years

possibly, depending on what he makes.

So I wouldn't wait that long to get married.

I would go ahead and get married.

I wouldn't, unless her idea,

okay, I could talk about this a little bit more.

Okay, go.

If her idea of a formal wedding can be done

for a lot less than what I'm thinking in my head,

like you guys can cash flow in.

Yeah.

What do you think in 10, 15?

Yeah, I was thinking 15, 20,

but if you can cash flow it, both of you,

and maybe it's like she, you know,

with her job can contribute half,

and you contribute half,

I might, I might could be okay for that.

And you could do it in like six months or something, yeah.

Um, just because I just feel like

she's going to be like, wait a second.

I know, she's going to be bought in.

So you're telling me that I can't have my wedding

because of your debt.

Ah, I agree, like sitting in this chair.

I know.

Right?

But if Sam Warshall came to me back in the day

and was like, first off, I have $100,000 in debt.

And for that reason, we're just going to allow.

We're going to allow for this lecture.

I'm so sure.

I've, she's having the ring.

She's saying, no, I don't know.

No, I would.

And that's a good point, though.

I'd like for it.

If you can cash flow this,

but I wouldn't wait, I wouldn't wait longer

than five to six months, though.

I would do it quick.

Agree, I would do this quick,

because you can't have a really nice party.

It doesn't have to be in secret.

I guess is what I'm saying.

Right.

You can have a really nice party

and then save up and do another really nice party

later on.

Yes, so who is this?

If you can save for it quick, again, four to five months.

Yeah.

Then you can, yeah, do the wedding.

But if you guys are just like,

it's not a big deal to either one of you,

then I would, yeah, then I would alope

and then you guys can, yep.

Put your income together, pay off that debt faster

and then, oh, man, that's hard.

It is hard, but yeah, thank you.

You heard, you heard our ideas.

Yes.

We gave you two options.

That's good.

All right, we've got Richard,

who's in bowling green Kentucky on the line,

right up the road.

What's going on, Richard?

Oh, doing good.

Thanks for taking my call.

Yeah, you bet.

How can we help today?

Okay.

I found you guys about a year and a half ago.

And just a year ago,

I was lucky enough, our guest were thankful enough.

I found me a really good job.

I make 140 a year.

Good.

And we kind of made a boo-boo.

We bought my 16-year-old at the time, a car.

And she's like, I'm going to work, I'm going to pay for it.

Love, love, love.

Well, she, after about six months,

decided she wasn't going to work.

Now the car is in mine and the wife's name

because she was 16 and can't take the loan.

Sure.

How much?

And, well, at the time, it was 23 and now it's down to 14.

We have paid it down to 14,000.

Okay.

My question is, should I sell it or should I keep it

and just finish paying it off?

Cause I'm in my debt snowball right now.

And it's like, the bill I'm working on right now,

it's three more, it's above that.

And then I'll be putting all towards that car.

How much are you and your wife's vehicles worth?

What'd you spend on those?

Well, I spent, I spent 20 on mine and it's paid off

and I spent like 28 on hers and it's paid off.

Okay.

And how old is your daughter now?

Well, she just heard 18, two months ago.

Okay.

I mean, you're in the parameter, like for your income 140,

we'd say no more than half of your annual income and vehicles.

So you're right there, 20, 28 and 23.

You're right at the cusp a little bit over,

but since others are paid off,

I'm not going to be too much of a tyrant about it.

You could keep it and pay it down.

She's 18 now.

Yes, she just turned 18.

And have you guys talked to her about taking over the loan?

Try to, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

I'm not liking when I'm hearing about this.

I have a very, very grateful.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, it's, yeah, she, she's got this attitude

that she's entitled to it.

And I'm like, oh, then sell it in two seconds, right?

She didn't even come up with that.

Well, and you put your daughter in debt, Richard.

I don't like that either.

What's that?

So, so, yeah, if you guys were,

baby, step seven, you had tons of money,

I would say if you wanted just to pay for it

and then say, yeah, it's yours, whatever.

I don't like the idea of you setting her up with debt.

So, I think you set her down and say, sweetie, I'm so sorry.

We messed up.

We, you said, we had a boo-boo.

Right. Yeah.

So, we said the beginning of the call.

Not only is the deal that we had made disintegrated,

which I don't blame her in time.

She's 16.

Like the frontal part of her like,

breath is even formed yet.

So, you're putting a lot of responsibility on a 16 year old,

which was not very smart.

How much is the car now?

Right.

It's right out for 50 a month.

That's a lot.

How much would you sell it for?

If you sold it, what would you get for it?

Oh, I don't have no idea to be honest with you.

I mean, 100% I wouldn't know.

Like I said, it's, yeah.

So, I would look at it.

I have 14 on it.

Yeah.

I mean, in a perfect world,

it's not upside down in a perfect world.

You'd get 18 and you could buy her a $4,000 car

and just call it like a, hey, we did this.

But yeah, but I would say the two things.

Number one, the deal that we made was a bad deal for you.

And the deal we made now goes against the value system

on which I think that you should live financially.

And because of that, in good faith, I can't keep you held

to a loan because I don't think that that's the right way

to live with your money.

And so, it's in our name.

And we're going to sell it, but she is 18.

So, I don't even want to give her the choice to take it on.

No, I would not transfer this over.

Rachel makes a very good point.

On the one hand, you guys were in the wrong

for bestowing this life of debt in front of her.

We need that now.

We need that now.

And then she also, it sounds like I don't know,

just deriving from what you've said.

She's kind of hard-headed and is not really doing

what you guys are hoping for in this moment.

So, I would not want to reward that behavior.

I like what Rachel said about kind of going and saying,

hey, you know what, we said this.

That was our mistake, our bad.

However, you also haven't shown that you really want a vehicle

and because of how you're acting,

it's very hard for us to even fund one the correct way,

which is in cast for you at this stage.

So, I would kind of play both sides of that field.

She's going to be mad, mad, mad, Rachel.

She's so mad.

So, listen, that's the thing about when you set up a boundary,

you put up the boundary and then, regardless of what that person,

how they react, what they say, that's on them at that point.

But you probably know from data points

that it's not going to be great, but I really do believe,

in the long run for her, it's going to be better.

It's going to be better.

It's going to be better.

And she is going to remember the lesson.

If you, to me, there's something so big

when a parent apologizes, it is like, I made the mistake,

and here's what I did.

I never should have done that.

That sticks with a kid for a very, very long time.

So, she's going to remember the fact that my parents went into debt

and they looked at it and realized it was the wrong thing.

And I almost, I almost would be willing to take back my former thing

about not getting her a car, because what I wouldn't want to happen

is that that lesson getting lost in the part

where she'd never longer has a car.

Do you know what I mean?

So, there's part of me that I'm like,

maybe I would give her the $5,000 car classic.

I probably would, yep.

And then she remembers the bigger lessons.

Real pissed, she can go get a carlin' on her own

and make her own decisions at that point, yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

That's a good one.

Thank you for the call.

Sorry for the call, Richard.

I hope it goes well.

We'll be praying for you.

Thank you.

All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the fair one's credit union studio taking calls about your life and money

I'm still with Rachel Cruz. I'm still Jade Warsaw doing it. We're still doing it. All right. Going back to Dominic

Who's in Springfield, Massachusetts? I'm guessing on the line. What's up Dominic?

Hello, Jada Rio. I'm good. How can we help? Did I get it right as M.A. Massachusetts?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I get it. I just have a quick question for you guys. I'm not too long. So I have

a lot of money investing. So like, I'm a rookie when it comes to investing. I just started. I hired an

investor back in September. And I'm watching my investments go as along the way. And it doesn't look

like my investments are doing as great as I wish I could. And the other thing is too. Like I think

I want to like cash out my investments. And because then like a couple years down the road, I'm trying

to buy a house and move out of my parents house. And I don't know if I'm should I cash out the

investments or just kind of hope for the best. Are they retirement? Is it like IRA, Roth IRA type

stuff? What's it invested? What's a vehicle? Well, no, so a lot of my, so yeah, no, I do have a

floor on cable. I went use that for the house. It would, so I have a lot of my money in the S&P 500.

Okay. I have 97,000 dollars in what's called River Bridge. And then I have another 135,000

in legal and other little fund that they have. It's like, it's called a structure note.

Okay. And they're just tax, is just a taxable brokerage account?

Yeah. One of them is like kind of like a brokerage account. And then the other one is I, it's a,

I guess like a, I'm not really so sure how to put it. But the River Bridge is what's

it's in the video and then Google with an investment and. Okay. So they're single stocks.

So it's like, yeah, yeah. So it's like not just a single stock. It's like a lot of them. Yeah.

How many together, how many single stocks are in that fund?

I think it's about like, I'm not entirely so sure to be honest. Okay. Okay. So part of me, what I don't

like about what I'm hearing is you're not sure about what you're invested in, which is always a

red flag for me because you should understand it enough to be able to explain it back in a way

that is clear. So part of me, and I think you understand facets of it, obviously, but there's

obviously facets that maybe you're not sure of. So that's thing number one that I'm thinking about.

Thing number two, I'm thinking about is the fact that you said, ultimately, you're trying to buy a

house. And I'm wondering what your timeline is for that because that, that does play into whether

or not I would keep this or what I would do with this money going forward. So what's your timeline

for the house? Like, within like the next like couple of years, I'm really interested in moving

out of my parents' house and I was thinking whether I should rent or buy a night and looking more

towards the buying because I feel like I can afford it. I do have a good chunk of change, but yeah.

Yeah. How much are you making a year? My full time position, I make like 75K a year.

Okay, how did you save up all this money? I mean, it's like almost 200 to 35K.

Yeah, no, I'm a really frugal person. I don't really spend my money. And before two,

I started working full time. I had a way back in high school, it was working a little part time

job. I was pretty much always saved money and never really spent. Good for you.

Well, if you're thinking about there's two parts to this. So first off, based off of what you've

said, the way this money is invested, it's not invested the way we would tell you to do it here,

the Ramsey way. It sounds like your your 135 is probably mostly in bonds or something like that

with the structured note that you have. And then the others and index funds, which is fine,

we would teach you if you were going to invest your money to do it in mutual funds again across

four different types. And it doesn't sound like you have it invested that way. So I would think

about rolling that money into the proper investments versus caching it out per say.

Now, if you were ready to buy a house immediately, I would say you could go ahead and pull it out.

But if you really are thinking, hey, this is two to three years down the line. What I'd be doing is

I'd be meeting with a smart investor pro and saying, Hey, I have this money invested the way the

reason that your return is not very great is it sounds like you have a lot of bonds with that

135 invested. That's why it's probably going very slowly. And I would say, I don't like the way

this money is invested. I don't believe it's invested the money, the Ramsey way and that it's

getting me the best rate of return. And then I would have them roll it over into better funds.

And then yeah, I just let it sit and grow for the next however many years until you're ready.

And just understand that when money is invested for five years or less, you may or may not,

you know what I mean, that five year point is kind of when we see like there is a locked in

and your money has grown. There's a higher rate that will have grown by five years versus if it's

less than five years, there's more fluctuation within that. So just know that. And even like the river

bridge account, like I would almost feel more okay with that. If you said there were 50 individual

stocks in there, but the 10 feels really limited. A lot of risk in that.

It could be asked you. It might. It might. I think it is a lot more

okay. So I don't do this by myself. I hired a professional. He's really good. I like him a lot.

And I'm I he answered all my questions when I ask him. But your returns aren't. Your returns aren't

what you said they should be. That's a red flag for me. Yeah, I yeah. I don't know if it's really

necessarily his fault, which is I guess it's just the stock market, which is what I'm. Well, it depends

on what you're invested in. That's the whole point. So if you're invested the way we say, like

your bonds are going to move slower than anything else. That's kind of like what you transfer to

when you're almost ready to retire. So you could you could stand to be more aggressive in your

approach. That's just me high level looking at it based on what you said. Yeah, looking at some

funds that are, you know, aggressive growth type mutual funds. You probably would see more return.

But also, you know, it is the long game. So I wouldn't. But I would make sure that yeah,

from a investment strategy perspective, like what you're saying, right? There's a right way

to play that long game. I agree. I mean, don't get me wrong. You love this guy and you think that

you just need to spend more time with them to understand. Great. I'm not going to tell you

that to divert, but yeah, it might even be that just not really giving it a fair chance. Because like,

I used to just do like CDs, which is like, like, like guaranteed. But then once you go to the stock

market, you're like, well, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah, that's a big job. It's not really. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, over the next two to three years, Dominic, I would use

majority of this to put as much down on a house as possible and then have that and then and then

re re energize the the investment machine, if you will. So I think you're yeah, I mean, I would

look into it, but two to three years isn't going to make or break you because you're probably going

to use this for the house. But I would just from a knowledge perspective, like what Jade's saying,

sit down and really get a good grasp on what all this is and check out our investment, you know,

philosophy on the four types of mutual funds. And again, we're even okay with an index fund.

That's just over, you know, the broad scope, if you just want to put your money in that too. But

but the diversification piece is really is really big. So that's what I would ask him about that

that other fund. But I'd get out of I'd get out of the bond market personally. Yeah, I would too.

It sounds like I was just kind of looking at it a little bit and it just sounds like it's way

more predictable. There's an income facet of it. There's a lot of protection against the

downside of the market. So it sounds like this is just very, very conservative for you.

And at your age, you probably don't need it. You don't need to be. Yeah, you got time, buddy. So

get out there, test the waters. Well, don't don't make the keep the, yeah, the habits in place,

though, the fact that you've saved that much is so impressive. We just wanted to go as far as

possible for you. Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call.

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All right. We've got Susan on the line. She's in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Susan. Thanks for

joining us. How can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. So I'm kind of at a loss.

The man I married, we've known each other four and a half years and we got married four months

before he passed away. Oh my gosh, Susan. Anyway, I've always had a soft landing in my life.

And there's always been somebody who's the first time. And again, it's a little bit of a soft

landing. You left a little life insurance. I've sold a lot of assets that I have. And it's helped.

I am self-employed. But when I found myself and I went through a grief support group

thing and one of the things they talked about was grief spending. I'm like, oh, that's not me.

Sure enough. It was about four weeks ago. I realized, oh my gosh, I'm a grief spender. I mean,

I was just going over my numbers. He passed in August. And since September, over my budget,

I have spent $33,800. Now, some of that was on tires to the car and you know, oil change and stuff.

But the majority of that has just been on memberships, house cleaners, gardeners,

handymen and dog stuff and just stuff I don't need or didn't need to buy and every time

and I just empathize with myself when I would click that little buy button. Yeah, not now.

Oh my gosh. Are you using the insurance money for this or is this something you're going into debt?

No, unfortunately, no, I'm not going into debt. So I currently right now in savings, I'm down to

$20,000 and three months ago, there was $57,000 in there. Okay, some of that I've been using

to live on. I need two grand a month to live on in my house. My business requires two grand and

it's staining on its own. So I'm not worried about that. But I do need my business to kick it up

a notch so that it can support my business and me. But that's, that's going to take time because

when he got sick, I did back off clientele, et cetera. The 2000 a month you live on, what's that

cover? Do you live someplace where there's no mortgage or tell us more about that? It's a rent

and that's utilities, rent is 1450 and it's gas lights, trash, water, and internet. Okay.

And that's going to be gone in 10 months. Well, yeah, like keep going in the way I'm going.

Yeah, for I am getting more inheritance next week, there's another inheritance check coming

up. That'll boost that 20 to 50,000. So it'll be 30,000. And then there is another

probably 25,000 in assets that I need to sell. Okay. That I haven't gotten to yet. I'm working

on it. There's a phone awful lot to navigate. And then there's another pension of his that I

haven't applied for yet. And that's about 18,000. So when all said and done, if I spend no more

out of the savings in about a month, there should be 95,000 in that account. Okay. Yeah.

So do you feel like the the counseling is helping with the grief spending now that you've kind

of pinpointed it? Because sometimes part of the problem is like realizing, oh gosh, that's me.

And then you identify it and you can start to work through it. Yeah, I finished the grief

counseling back in December. And I didn't realize my problem until about three weeks ago. Okay.

Now back in September, a friend was booking a cruise. I said, sure, I'll book that cruise

with you for February. So two weeks ago, I went on a one week cruise. It was five hundred bucks.

I say it was only five hundred bucks. Yeah, that's not bad for a nice, you know, balcony

state room, but I didn't calculate the hundred dollar parking fee and the four hundred dollars

I had to board my dogs. Yeah. Plus I spent another probably five or six hundred dollars on luggage

and clothes. Okay. That was in my purview back in September when I booked the cruise. Sure, sure.

Yeah, that's expensive. Yeah, they don't sneak up. No, go ahead. Well, I was going to say,

first, I would give yourself some grace because I do think when you're in a season, especially

of grief, our bodies, we're looking for a way to cope, right? And if we're not aware about,

or not intentional about it, it can go, we can start medicating sideways, right? Whether it's

drinking, gambling, shopping, like whatever we're doing to have a level of stability, we search out

for. So I don't want to fault you for that because I think, you know, that's a, it's a, that's a

common. It's very normal. Yes. So now I think the fact that you've realized that now we can put

some things in place to help with it, to actually create some friction between you and buying things.

So I would do, you know, from a low level, I would delete Amazon Prime. I would not have my card

saved on any website to make it an easy purchase. I would take off Apple Pay off of your phone,

like put some actual logistical friction between you and, and spending any money, okay? That's

like one thing you can do. Another thing that, when you're coming off of, and I wouldn't say that

your necessary are addicted to spending, but a lot of people, especially in 12 step, they say to

redirect where you would normally go and spend or normally go and get a drink, instead do something

helpful, right? When you feel the need to spend, go for a walk. When you feel the need to spend,

have that friend that you call, and you tell her, I'm going to call you every time I'm tempted.

It's this redirection of your actions that actually can be very helpful because you almost train

your, train yourself to have a new set of habits. So yeah, that, that, those are a couple of

just things I would probably, I would start today. And then of course the budget and kind of the

working with still, you know, yourself, I think is still big. Yeah, I think in this call,

I would tend to err on the side that what Rachel said is probably the bigger and the biggest part

of this because until, until you can get that piece in alignment, anything else that we teach you

is not going to hold, right? Because you need to have that self control that's built in.

But once you do have that, yeah, there's the practical side of making sure you are in a budget,

like every dollar, and we'll make sure that you get that before we hang up this call. But

I have it. And I have created the budget. It's easy to pay my bill. Good. Good. Yeah.

And then the discipline of learning how to be really detailed when new things pop up is

something that is a muscle, I think that builds over time to just think through every aspect of what

you might spend money on. But my biggest question, um, besides these lump sums of money that's coming

is what's your month to month? How are you? How much money do you earn coming in month to month?

Right now I'm earning in my business about two grand, just enough to cover the expenses of my

business. So I've been living off of whatever he has. So it's not whatever it's not actually

profit. It's having to be right reinvested right back into the business to keep it going.

So I would say that I'm concerned about that. And that would be along with what Rachel said,

creating the friction, my number two piece of homework for you would be figuring out what earning

and income looks like for you. How long have you had this business? Five years and it was doing

really well. What caused it to decline? My husband sickness and me stopping stepping back.

Okay. Do you have a timeline, Susan, a realistic timeline? And when you think it's going to start

actually creating a profit, is it going to be like another year? Is it going to be three months?

It's actually starting to build back up again. What kind of business is it?

I'm a transformational trauma coach. Okay. I'm pretty elite in the area I live. Okay.

So I'm pretty well known and it is lucrative. I mean, so it's going to be a kind tale bag.

But like 24 and I had my husband's income as well. In 2024, we were doing close to 100,000

in that year. And we live in a small town. How much were you making out of that?

About 52. Okay. So if you could get back clientele wise,

to that 52, that would you could sustain on that. And I like that for you. In the meantime,

honestly, I pick up a side hustle because when you have too much time to sit at home,

I know when I'm at home, Rachel, and my eyes just look at the walls, I go, oh, it'd be nice to

get something new for that wall. Oh, I need a new bed spread. Oh, like when I'm not doing enough

with my time, I tend to spend more money. And I think a lot of us are like that because you're bored

and you're looking for release. You add grief on top of that. And I think it's just a recipe for