Do-or-Die in Baltimore

0:00All right, 635 is a scheduled first pitch tonight as the Jay's and Orioles open a three game series. In Baltimore. And you can tell by Kevin Barker's face that we're a little concerned about the weather. Ben McDonald is the Orioles analyst and former pitcher. He joins us on Blair and Barker. There he is. Ben, before we get into the meat of this, I'll ask you to put on your meteorologist hat and tell me what it looks like there right now and what the odds are of us actually having baseball tonight. Well, I just got the latest update, so I'll share it with you guys. And you know, the weather's very unpredictable. But what I'll say is it's raining pretty hard right now. Obviously the tarp is on the field, but from what I was told by one of the grounds crew people, they think we're going to we're going to get the game in tonight. They think the rain's going to stop eventually. Might be slightly delayed if anything, but they feel pretty good about it. Now tomorrow is a totally different story from what I understand. It looks a lot worse for tomorrow, but that's what they're saying as of about 10 minutes

1:03ago. Okay, you know, all players like routines, right? Trey, your savage is coming off the aisle. It's going to be his first start in a little in a minute. Is it a big deal for him to have a say a rain delay? You have a rain delay. You, you know, you're trying to get it geared up mentally, physically. Yeah, maybe it's not as big a deal for a pitcher. What do you think about that? Is there a problem with that or am I overthinking it? Oh, it's, it's not ideal. You know, you get to the ballpark. You want to be in your routine as a pitcher. Pitchers, we're very, so people call it superstition. So a lot of people say it's just your routine that you get in. The good news is what really gets you out of your routine is the starting and the stopping. That's what allows you to get out of your routine. But you know, even if the game's pushed back a little bit and the communication lines are open, I think he'll be fine with that. I mean, but the thing is, I mean, you guys know this baseball players are used to dealing with not in Toronto, obviously, because you can close the roof up, but in a lot of other places, they're used to delays and starting a little bit later and whatnot. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. Oh, you know, Ben Dylan Seas had an MRI the other day and, you know, he was talking to Hazel

2:05May about it just a couple of minutes ago and mentioned that there no surgery is needed, but his shoulder felt quote, heavy and felt achy. And we had that, that Levine on when, when, when we were reading the quote to him. And of course, you know, current Brewers advisor, former GM of the twins and he said, man, I don't like to hear those adjectives from a picture. I'm wondering, you're a former pitcher. When I, heavy and achy, what does that suggest to you? You know, you guys have all heard the term dead arm, right? Where it hurts a little bit, maybe a little bit, but the ball just doesn't come out like you wanted to like you can't create the velocity that you normally have. Naturally, you have to really work hard to do that. Shotters always scare me. Shotters is what ended my career. I had torn, wrote, fed a cup torn, labrum. And as a power pitcher like he is, I can relate to that. And power pictures don't really do well with shoulder issues. Now, if he had a MRI and structurally everything is okay. And listen, I'm not saying he does or he doesn't, but I mean, it is not uncommon for

3:08a guy that's strong. The innings of Dylan Seas has. I think if you would open up all the shoulders on guys and have that kind of innings and a power pitch, it is there would be something going on typically with the rotator cup, a little bit of fraying of the labor, something like that. That would not be uncommon at all. And I know that because I went through three different surgeries, talking to a million doctors during my time going through that. Now, I hope that's not the case for him. I just hope it's maybe some type of, you know, you could have arthritis going on. You could have some inflammation in there. The shoulder capsule is such a tight capsule, man. When you get a little bit of inflammation, that shoulder gets achy, it gets heavy. And also what we call, like I said earlier, the dead arm phase where, you know, you go through that two or three times a year. When we saw him not too long going to Toronto, of course, against the Orioles, I didn't see any of that. Like he looked really spot on. He was really spinning the breaking ball to Velo. It was there. Everything was there for me. And so hope is not a big concern for him at all. Ben, Shane Bos is lost. He's went down a little bit in September.

4:08What's going on with him? Yeah, you look, he's, you know, he's a guy you guys know came back from Tommy John surgery last year. He's at a career high innings, fits right now, career high starts right now. And look, this is very common down the stretch. There's nobody in baseball right now, guys, that is 100% health anymore. Everybody's nicked up a little bit tired, dragon, whatever you have. It's going on, but he's fighting through it right now. Of course, his last time out against the men, he was cruising along pretty good. And Boba shed, hit 105-mile-hour line drive off of his right elbow, his pitching elbow. And I'm just shocked he's taking his turn the next time in the rotation. So he's a gutsy guy that's almost to finish a year. He's made every start this year for the Orioles. Had some really good moments as an Oriole, obviously, but he's only in his second year back from Tommy John surgery. And again, it's a career high like Trevor Rogers has a career high like Brandon Young has a career high for the Orioles. We knew all this was going to happen when the season started if they all stayed healthy. And so he's just gutting through it right now, man. Got a couple of starts left because he scheduled to pitch today and then scheduled to pitch the final game of the season against the Yankee for the Orioles.

5:11Okay, let's give you a boost to energy versus the Jays and Seven Stars. He's got an ERA at 2.13. Jays are hitting 2.13 off him. Just if he were sitting down, I know he knows these stats. He's sitting down looking at those stats. Think that might give him a little boost going, hey, I do want to pitch against him. 100%. I mean, anytime, no matter the names on Jersey are different from time to time, the name on the Jersey stays the same. And when he looks at his career marks against Toronto, Blue Jersey goes, hey, I have a lot of success off of those guys. I typically pitch well with those guys. So he's got to be wanting to get out there, finish a year strong. It's not been his year, obviously. He's got a lot of losses. The Orioles do not score him runs. I mean, if you go back and look for us, Major League Baseball, I think he's got the second or third worst run support in Baseball. He's pissed a lot better than what his record has shown this year. It's just been one of those seasons where, you know, there's always one guy on every staff year in a year. And one guy gets a lot of run support. One guy doesn't get hardly much run support. And other guys are kind of somewhere in the middle, typically.

6:11Unfortunately for Shane Baws, he's been that guy that hadn't got much run support at all. Then obviously the season in Toronto hasn't gone the way anybody wanted it to go. I would think it's probably the same in Baltimore. How do you think the front office will judge the 2026 season? Let's assume that both of these teams don't make the playoffs just for our sake. Yeah, there's no doubt it's been another disappointing year in here in Baltimore. You know, there were a lot of expectations. You go out and sign Peter Lonzo, who by the way has been unbelievable and carried this Oriole off his Peter Lonzo. And you guys probably know this. He's got a chance to do something this year that's never been done in the history of Major League Baseball. And that's lead the American League and RBIs and the nationally he did that last year. So he'll be the only player to ever lead both leagues and RBIs. He's six clear right now of your dawn Alvarez. So we could see history, which is really cool. But the offense has been the struggle for the Orioles this year. There's no doubt about it. If you look in the month of September, guys, we were August the 31st.

7:12We were a half a game out of first of the final wild card spot. And since then the Orioles have gone six and 12. And it's been about the offense. And this offense is 3.6 runs per game in the month of September. It's the 27th best offense in the month of September. And it's just not been consistent at all. We've been shut out and back to back games. We haven't scored in 19 consecutive innings now. And so I think the pitching has been about what the Orioles thought it would be. The starters are kind of mills of fact. The bullpen is 10th best in baseball. But you can really talk about the defense, the lack of defense, although it's been better as a blade. It's really been mostly about the lack of consistency with the offense. I think Michael Lyos has already started to pivot. We've had some front office people moved around already. Could be more changes coming. I think the Orioles are really thinking about changing their philosophy on a lot of different things right now in the analytical world right now. And I just saw the Milwaukee Brewers for three games here. And they do it totally different. And you guys know that. I mean, like it's they don't strike out much.

8:13They walk a lot. They hit for a high batting average. They don't hit many homers at all. Like they're almost dead last at home runs, but yet they're the second best offense in baseball. They remind me a lot of the Tampa Bay rays, who by the way have the best record in the American League. Not only enough all the analytical world that we hear, well, batting average doesn't matter anymore. And you got to hit a lot of home runs to win. If I look at those two teams who have the two best records of Major League Baseball, neither one of them hit many homers. They're one, two in Major League Baseball and team batting average. They hit highwood runners in score position. They steal bases. They pressure you up. It's almost like mid 90s baseball. I think they're thinking outside the box. Or I think they've outthought a lot of the other organizations that are out there right now. And they're going to have a pivot of kind of going back to that real world of baseball where, OK, it's OK to shorten up with two strikes. It's not OK to strike out 14 times a game. It's not OK to try to hit the ball in the air every time. Home runs or accidents, they happen when you when you get it in the air accidentally, it goes out of the ballpark. And so when I look at those teams, I feel like from an analytical world, they're a little

9:18bit ahead of everybody else. But to answer your question in a long way, yes, it's been a disappointing season here in Baltimore. I think everybody thought this was a playoff team going on and it just hadn't met the those expectations. Ben, what's Kobe Mayo ceiling? 40 home or guy? No, I really, I really believe that. Um, I mean, he leads all of Major League baseball and home runs against left handed pitch. And he just crushes left. He the encouraging thing is he's starting to hit right handers to his last four home runs. He's hit have been off of right handers. Is it defense where you want it yet? No, it's not there. Has it gotten better? Yes, it's gotten better. It's still not average yet over at third base, but I'm telling you what, you can dream on him a little bit. What he's accomplished this year, uh, the pop that's in his bat with 24 home runs and you can dream on him and say, Hey, if this cat gets five, 600 at batsman, he could hit 30 to 40 home runs. And so he's a big time part. Now, a lot of people will think that he may be on a trade block this off season. He'll fetch a pretty penny because the Orioles need starting pitching and he may be the

10:20top of that trade part where you peace him with somebody else because everybody expects Jordan Westberg to come back. Our original third base for them to be healthy next year. They'll fight for Fred bats if Kobe Mayo stays here because Westberg will be a third. Peter Lonzo plays first base every day. Semmel, Psiode, Hs. There's not going to be a whole lot of reps out there for everybody. You know, there's just not enough at bats to go around. So some people think he could be traded. I'm kind of in the other camp right now. I kind of like to hang on to him because his youngest he is, man. I think his future is very, very bright. Yeah, it's Gunner Henderson still in the best player conversation in baseball on your mind. In my mind, I know the numbers don't bear it out. I'm saying this to you guys and I don't know it to be totally true, but I feel like there's something going on with Gunner Henderson from a health standpoint. He answers the bell. He plays almost every day, but just watching him swing. There's been a couple of times he is swung and missed and grim missed pretty bad here in the last month. I think he's got a physical element going on that we'll find out probably when the season

11:22is over, something you maybe do it to hand or maybe do it to risk. And again, I don't know that for sure. It's just what my eyes tell me. There's no doubt it's been a off year for him. Just like it's been an off year for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Some things you just can't explain why certain things happen, but I am a believer in Gunner Henderson the way he plays defense, the talented he has. It's just been a really strange year for both him and Vlad. And you go around the league too, you know, for other players that perform very well the last couple of years. Yeah. Ben really good to get his join us. Great stuff as always, my friend. Be well. Yeah, enjoy the weather. Big yeah. Yeah. I'm getting up real out. Sure. Great. Thank you. Thank you. All righty. That has been McDonald's. Daniels and listen, Madison. Love the accent. I love it. That's why he kept I love having here in YouTube. Yeah. You too talk. It's a good dude. Yeah. He's a real good dude. He's very passionate about his baseball. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Well, I think I, you know, I, whenever I see a guy have the type of year he's had, it

12:29may be more than Vlad because we've talked about Vlad. He's still playing, you know, still playing really good defensively. I just, I think there are things that guys can play through. There are things that, you know, will allow guys to post every day, but just not perform at their maximum. And that's what I think we're going to find out with Vlad at the end of the day. I think we're going to find out that whether it's some sort of surgery or something, it's just, it's not, you know, it's not a career threatening thing or anything like that. But I do think guys have injuries. And again, I keep going back to Verna Wells when he played here. You know, guys have injuries that they managed during the year and they play through. And, but, you know, I mean, the game doesn't wait for anybody. And, you know, when you think back to what we were saying about Gunner Henderson two years ago. Yeah. I'm a player. Yeah. Absolutely. People were talking about him and Jack some holiday and Bobby wit and Jackson Holland.

13:33But, but mainly Gunner was in that group, right? Yeah. With, with, I can't, Bobby, what I'm just, I'm thinking of, I'm trying to think of other, of other, you know, young players who were in that, that star, Kevin O'Vlaadi. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you do, I mean, it's been a couple of years now where that team hasn't really achieved what you want them to achieve. And how much of that is on Gunner? How much of that is on some of the other stuff going on? I mean, I've said this. I think they made a real mistake getting rid of Brandon Hyde. I know the manager doesn't necessarily, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to a championship. I would, for a championship, I would have hung on to him. But yeah, I don't, it's another year of missed opportunity for that. Another, you know, another year where that window of opportunity has been, you know, was open, but they haven't stepped through it. Now, Ben does make a great point.

14:34I forgot about Jordan Westberg. You need to remember how good Jordan Westberg was. Now, if Kobe Mayo is, if they're putting a package together to, um, involving him, um, sending them over to they need, I, I think getting rid of Adley Rutchman was a good start. Trading, I shouldn't say getting rid of trading. Adley Rutchman was a good start, but they need to really take a look at the direction there, the direction they're going in as a. Yeah, they're pitching stakes. I would start there, probably. Yeah. And they're both, and it hasn't been good in years. Wow. I mean, their, their bullpen was fine until Felix, when Felix put these to God hurt. Yeah, that was kind of the, it was almost like they hit a wall. Yeah, absolutely. Up until that point, remember when they were in Toronto, we were talking about Holy Cow, they had him and Keno, these were all guys. They plucked off the waiver wire and, uh, we were going, my goodness, where they basically put a bullpen of waiver claims together, but patista God hurt. And that kind of started the, the downward spiral.

15:37Yeah. Uh, spiral. Um, yeah, I just don't know. I don't know how good they are right now. I, I really don't and it's going to be an interesting offseason for teams that need to make significant moves to get better. Hmm. And they need to make a significant move. I don't think there's any, yeah, I do like Bessio. I really like Bessio, but I don't know. The guy that size, how is he going to hold up catching every day? You know, that's why Ben talked about impossibly D.H. He's a big man like it. I don't know what his height and weight is compared to Sal Perez, but he's a, he's a big dude. Yeah. I don't know if he can, I don't know if he can catch every day. Now he's, yeah. But, uh, who do you think has more work to do the Orioles or the Jays? Uh, let's assume that Dylan Cease is, comes back in his healthy.

16:37He's a, seems, you know, you know, I think the Jays, yeah. I would think rebuilding a lineup would be harder than rebuilding a pitching staff. Yeah. So I think the Jays, yeah. And the Jays need to blow that sucker up and start over with their lineup. I think you're right. I think you can, uh, you can address the pitching issues a little easier than if I have an owner willing to spend money. I can fix that. Yeah. And oh, you got good analytics, which Ben is telling you they don't. Yeah. And they're trying to self correct that. Yeah. You fix that. And you're line up with, I would think be okay because you're not letting the other team score enough runs. Uh, there was a lot of news today involving the blue Jays. We talked about Chad Dallas and Dre, his savage have been activated. Spencer Erigetti's been option to the spring training complex. Joe Manthaply has been de Fade and of course Dylan Cease telling Hazel that, uh, his MRI showed that surgery wasn't, uh, needed. But he described his shoulder as feeling quote, acie and heavy.

17:40So lots to talk about with the skipper, John Schneider. Let's see what, uh, John Schneider had to say a few minutes ago. Uh, pretty encouraging. Nothing structural. Um, just kind of showed some inflammation, which is a good thing. And, um, he's not going to make the start Wednesday, but we're going to kind of take it day by day and see how he feels and, um, the goal is to get him feeling closer to himself. And if that's the case and, um, you know, we need to win a game down the stretch, I think he'll be good to go. That was my next question. What would need to happen to us to consider bringing him back? I think, hopefully, you know, hoping this kind of down period kind of comes him down a little bit and that, um, again, he feels like himself in that, you know, it's meaningful game that you kind of have to win and you want to take your best chance with a, a fully rested, more healthy feeling Dylan Cease. He told us that he started feeling the egginess after the complete game against the red sauce. When you hear something like that, does that give you a reason to pause when you've got

18:43a guy out there and they're determined to stay in the game? Is there a manager you want to look out for? Yeah. Um, we've talked about, we talked about it a couple days ago, me, him, Pete and kind of a guy like him, you know, it's first year working together and you trust, um, how they're feeling, you trust their, their body of work kind of previously and how durable he's been. Uh, I think looking back, yeah, I think, um, you'll learn from every situation you learn from, you know, coupled with in that, I think was a close no hitter in, uh, in San France. It was a heavy workload for a handful of outings. So I think kind of, you know, looking back and casting forward, um, you can probably make some adjustments when you're trying to navigate the whole season, hopefully into the post season. And I think that's why it's back. I mean, how much of kind of a list of boosts is this for you? It's, it's nice. You know, we were talking in there earlier about kind of churning through starters, relievers, but to have a familiar face, you know, I think is a really good thing and for him put in the work to get back as quick as he had, uh, or as he has, I think is really, um, telling

19:44of him and I think it's, it'll be nice to see him out there tonight for sure. I know you don't want to give any kind of, um, against the other guys. I imagine, you know, probably be in a range of, uh, roadiness or depending on how things work. Yeah. I think, you know, just based off his outing in Buffalo 34, you always add some onto that and we were shooting for three, three ups and 40, 45 with him in Buffalo. So I think kind of gauge how the innings go. Um, see how he's feeling, not pushing, um, by any means, but somewhere, um, I think around that number, I think is smart. And in your conversations with them, how much is he looking forward to rejoining them? A lot, you know, he's, it's tough to miss time. It's tough to miss time, you know, when he did and, um, you know, kind of where the season was and things like that. So he's excited to be back, you know, just kind of talking to him since he's been back, watching, you know, watching him throw in Texas off the mound, looked like himself, you know, so he's excited to get out there and compete, um, start, starting pictures

20:45are always anxious on their start day. So even if it's a little bit abbreviated, he's approaching it, um, like any other start. We noticed that you started starting lineup. What's the update on that? Just kind of day to day with the back, um, kind of feels to say I was hoping you feel a little bit better today than yesterday, um, kind of feels the same. So get some treatment, um, see if you can hit a little bit later, see if he's available, but kind of just taking a day by day and don't want him to be, uh, compromised by any means, but definitely want him back as soon as he's feeling good. So come on. So he's me handling a fastball pretty well, especially September four out of five, five out of four on lines coming from the fastball. Have you noticed maybe he's a mechanic that he's adjusted in season so that he made it really good contact on the fastball? I think kind of a little bit, you know, I think there was a time in the season where he was very aware of the breaking ball and that kind of affected how he was sitting the fastball. Um, when I looked back early in the year, I think he was getting challenged with a lot of fastballs and turned a few of them around and then it was kind of caught in between breaking ball fastball,

21:46but when he's at his best, you know, he's on time for the fastball and just, um, hitting the mistake breaking ball. So I think he's done more kind of, um, physically to keep himself, you know, in position to kind of have the bat speed that he, that he usually has. Although, do you think September, is there any one that kind of stood you for the most, like, can I impress you? Yeah, I think the one to give us the lead at home and the seventh and into three around Homer. Um, that's definitely one. Um, I think a lot of his home runs you can kind of look back at, you know, even fifth deck Homer, a couple of dead center, a couple really far ones in Minnesota. I know that's not September, but, um, I think the big one wasn't through in Homer at home. John, what's up for me? Uh, what are you hearing about weather? Yeah, typical Baltimore. I feel like whenever we come here at some point, it's going to be hot or rainy. Um, I think there should, we should be okay to start the game tonight. There may be some passing showers, um, as the game goes a little bit, but we should have a pretty good window to play today and see what tomorrow brings. And our tomorrow doesn't look as good as today, but you deal with that when you deal with it.

22:50There you go. That is John Schneider, the manager of the Blue James. Great question from Hazel May about the workload. I just sent her a text that's not an easy question to ask. And, uh, she asked it perfectly. And, uh, you know, essentially, uh, John admitting would be the wrong word, suggesting that they may, in hindsight, may have played it a little differently after that, that game against the Red Sox. But he also made the point that, um, I think it was the Red Sox. He also made the point that, uh, you know, he and Pete and Pete Walker and Dylan C. have talked about it a lot. Um, and that, you know, there is still a process of getting to, kind of getting to know each other. But, uh, yeah, I, I, listen, thankfully surgery isn't, isn't needed because if surgery was needed, I think people would, and rightly so, be asking some really, really difficult questions.

23:51Uh, I, I do think we need to keep in mind when we talk about this, you know, John and Pete and that staff, they've basically been managing their way around an offense that hasn't done Jack Squat all year on a team that's expected, expected to go to the postseason. And I just, you know, I think you need to, need to keep that in mind. Like, you know, I had someone talking to me, all the pitching injuries, I said, okay, well, Cody Ponds, that's not on the, that's Guy Terran, the, whatever it was, running off the mount. Treyis Savage, that was in knee injury. Those don't have anything to do with, with workload or, or wear and tear. And if you look at this organization on balance, they've done a really good job keeping their dudes healthy. And as, you know, it's that pointed out, this is an organization that's quite often had a lot of older dudes and under pitching stuff. Yeah, I'm not sure they've ever had a guy with the, the amount of stuff that Cease has had. Just, just the things he can go to to get you out with. And a guy that has that,

24:51he can bully you. But he's also, he's also got a complicated track record. I guess, I mean, I, I think this year it hasn't been like, you know, what he's done in the past, I don't think they're really cared about that. I think it's the added spin. I think it's to change up that they like, I think it's maintaining the velocity of the way he did for most of the year. I'm now obviously, you know, the last handful of starts. It's been a little all over the place. But I just, I just don't think there's a blueprint because they've never had a guy with that amount of stuff before. I agree. I wouldn't hit stuff looks the way it looks and he's 110 pitches in. You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not taking up for him because did John's right there. They'll, they'll have to make an adjustment. And I said this, that's the ground up in the room. You know, Dylan's not going to go in there and go, hey, my arm hurts. Don't throw me tomorrow. Like you got to be the ground up in the room. Somebody's got to raise their hand and go, I don't care where we're at in the standings. You mean too much to our organization going forward? We just need to think about you first getting you healthy. And if that is you don't pitch again, you're not pitching again. I'm at basically, I don't, I hope he doesn't pitch again. I think

25:55it'd be wrong for the player. And just listen to the John there. I think he ended it with standings. You know, you lose one and the other two teams win once basically over and he said, you know, he said he's good to go if we need to win a game down the stretch. Yeah. And that ended, that would indicate to me last game of the season. Yeah, you don't want him throwing one looking up there and it's 92 and it's trying to overthrow and hurt it worse. You don't want to. Caleb Joseph is our Blue J Central analyst. He'll join us next. It's a player and Barker on SportsNet 590 to fan and SportsNet. Hey, it's Matt Mark Kasey and I'm Mike Fuda. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world weekdays at noon. It's the fan hockey show on SportsNet 590 to fan and wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back to Blair and Barker on SportsNet 590 to fan of SportsNet. So we got it from

26:57Ben McDonald and John Schneider. Yeah, it looks very much like there will be Blue J's baseball tonight. I know tomorrow might be a little iffy. Hey, but I was going to say tomorrow may not matter, but actually probably because I think there's I don't think there's any in the ass. James can be eliminated tonight. He's an ass. So the other teams have to win three, Jeff. Let's bring in Caleb Joseph, our big J Central analyst. Look, hi Barker's. What's the reason right here? Yeah, the way some reason. Now you know how it works, right? You talked to Barker before the show and he's on trial now. I don't know, man. So so disappointed. Then the show starts and goes, you're negative. You're negative. You're negative. I actually, I didn't say a word to you out there. I have proof of people that were around me. You were kind of I didn't even know you were sitting there because we caught Frank. How you doing? Hey, buddy. Great. So Dylan C says his shoulder is achy and heavy. His choice of words. We talked about we had Thad Levine on when in his line was

28:01I see next year's er adjectives that would concern me. What do you mean? Again, we're not none of us are doctors. We get all that. But what do you, what do you make of that? Yeah, I tired. He's tired and sometimes in spring training kind of go through that dead arm period. That's exactly what that said. I think he's dead armed, but at the very end of it. And I thought maybe six or seven weeks ago when he was kind of pulling back and doing the VLO thing, I thought it was by design because he was able to reach back and grab it when he needed it. There were a couple games when he was in trouble in the first or second inning and bam, there was 98. It was right there. And last two starts, he ain't got it. Like he it's gone. And that's when I thought, oh, oh, something made right because he needed to rear back and bring it. He didn't have it. And he didn't have it in Sacramento either. And that's when you're starting to think is this guy tired? I know the innings are similar. It's not like he's 40 more innings than normal. But I think the up downs for whatever reason, I just keep coming back to this up down. I think that's

29:04really doing a number on him. So the innings might be close, but he's going deeper into games. And just and let's not forget too that he's kind of been the guy. Yeah. He's been the guy. Right. And so all of his games are high stress games. Like, hey, we've lost two. We need you to do it. And those innings and those type of high stress pitches, they wear on guys harder and more than others. I want to expand in that a little bit because I've actually had people tell me, Louis Varyland talked to people talk to Louis Varyland about Louis Varyland and what was the difference, you know, being used multiple innings. He said, it's just the up downs. It got to get used to the up downs. I had a couple people ask me, why would that be a big deal for a pitcher? The perfect guy to ask. Well, you get 20, 25 pitches in inning and a dilland sees if he was going five innings and really letting a rip for a hundred pitches. Well, I mean, that's 20 and inning doesn't take a genius to figure that math out. But if you're starting to get more efficient, and he has an eight pitch inning, but he pitches an extra inning, that's just another opportunity

30:06for him to go and like sit down and and have to wait and then ramp it back up when a lot of these guys that go five innings, but they throw 110. They're throwing so many pitches in that one inning. It's almost consistent in terms of they ramp it up where when you have an innings, a very efficient inning, you don't really get to like high speed very quickly. Does that make sense? Like where yeah, these guys, they just kind of, they're like fireballing it just every pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, and your body kind of gets into a nice rhythm because it's consistent work. Well, if he's been a little bit more consistent this year in terms of trying to get down that efficiency and so he's ramped up a couple more up downs. And so I don't know, I'm grabbing, I'm I'm stretching. No, it's there, but like other pictures are not figured out. We've heard other pictures mentioned it because see out my position would be, rest is probably not a bad thing. Yeah, I think it's hot cold hot cold. I think that's it. I'm trying to say right. The high leverage like the sixth inning and the seventh inning. 120 pitches, the 118 pitches, the,

31:06you know, you even know if you throw, if say you threw 95, 95 could be a different 120 like, yeah, you know, 120 could look different. I it's absolutely. By the way, just to jump in the Orioles have just tweeted out that the game will start in a rain delay or it will be delayed. I heard it. So yeah, it's a ice to height does what God, it is the worst, especially as a catcher because you're you're you have a certain time you go out and it's like I need to know man, like I need to know right now because I'm not about to like load up until I need to time out my big daddy hacks man and I'm only got so many in the tank. So when I'm prepared to let it eat and that orange pot of coffee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, take that thing apart. Anyway, special coffee. Yeah, all boys. I used to be a bunch of that when we played early on. We're training that whenever the game does start. I know before it was walks and being competitive, having competitive misses. That's a big deal, right? I mean, those big misses is not a good thing. It just doesn't allow him to be efficient. How could you help? How can Kirk he help?

32:11How can you stay in your posture? Can you stay in your posture? Not trying to do too much because he's got that big arching back thing and when he arches his back, his arm angle gets even higher up, which then it gets him throwing across his body and then that split finger turns more into kind of a gyro ball, more of like a screw ball. Don't want that. We need that north-south action. Those kind of dive push pitches that he always has. Those are the ones you're trying to get rid of. You're trying to keep him in terms of his posture, staying up tall enough so that he can use that big arm angle and really get downhill. How can you help that as a catcher? You got to be so in tune with what the guys do in every single pitch. If he's misfire and he's bending over, let go out there and tell him, be incredibly hyperactive. You can also call certain pitches in certain zones to try and force them to get into that spot. Don't just assume that he can do it. Help, get out there and call certain pitches. You might have to call the wrong pitch in the wrong count to the wrong batter just to get him back on track. That was a nightly thing. That was a nightly thing that I was always trying to calculate. How do I get this guy back on track? And for

33:13me, what is it for your savage? He's got. I don't know the guy well enough to know exactly, but I'm telling you, when I played, I knew 13 guys exactly what it was. Some guys, it was back towards the light or some guys that were seeing the way. Some guys that was a curve ball. You just know and have that for him and be ready. Yeah, I don't want to be the guy. But if you ever seen Kirk, you did that called Tampa, right out there and go, hey, dude, stay in a little tall or dental top of that thing. So, you know, use the heel. He has gotten a lot better of managing some of these kind of timeouts, I will say. But in terms of being a second pitching coach, you think there's still some area to go there in this career here to. I just, I love that guy. Just face. I'm trying to take ownership of what I see. I see what I see. And I'm going to say it. Sorry. I'm just not sure Kirk. He's got it in him. You know, I would think that'd be something that if he ever fish, I'd the pitching coach pitching coach might have one of those signs that you know fear if I tap my chin and get that thing in the air a little higher. I don't know. Sure. But I'm saying that it would be more about that. I would think that the catcher running

34:17out there at this point in his major league career. He should know what every one of those cues is for these guys. I believe you're I believe you. Yeah, believe well, and he's been around. He's been around those guys long enough now. I believe I just I've seen him every pitch. He's called. I've never seen him do it. You're negative. I'm asking. I'm sitting right here. He knows more back. I know to to you know, defend him so to speak. He might be calling those pitches in those zones. And you know, we may or may not know. But there are times when there's certain things that you see and you know going into it. Maybe it's a Kevin Gosman where his leg will get too close to the hitter versus kind of curling back towards third base. Sure. If I saw that on the second pitch of the game, bam, I'm out there. Like I'm not wasting time. It may be some of that's what you're talking about. I don't want to get into like a year end analysis of the blue jays here because we've got plenty of things. You've already said it's back up to drug down. I want to do that. You gave me. All right. It's in there. It's sucker. It's over. I got my dad takes me back up the bridge drug. It's over. What I want to ask you though is, okay, Okamoto,

35:22Himinez, Clement and Vladie. Is that a good enough defensive infield? Oh, I like this. Currently, yes, in a vacuum, yes, I do think there's areas that they can be even better in terms of how there could be one or two people to come in and spell some of these guys. So, Andre, so that's a big move for Andre. So, I talked to him during spring training. He said, I can already feel it and I'm two or three weeks into it. How different my body has to be prepared to play that side. It's something as simple as throwing at 30 more extra feet. He has to really use his body more and he was wearing it. Ernie, I think Ernie's an absolute gamer. Love that player. I do think that there's opportunities to kind of get him some more rest. Same with Okamoto. If you can hide him every once in a while against an absolute nasty righty that has a sweeper type action, I think this not only bodes well for them offensively, but it keeps him really sharp

36:24on defense. I think Himinez has been tremendous at defense. It's just he's battled a lot of health stuff because of the position. So, do I think it's good enough? Absolutely. I do wish there was one guy. Maybe that guy's Josh Smith. I like this player. He does have a little bit of a hole up in the zone right now with some velocity, but like he's I like the way he plays defense. He's got a great internal clock. I really think this could be a sneaky pickup in that he can play these other positions and let guys kind of just have a hitter. I'd rather have my yield. Are you till the guy be a lefty hitter? There's the Okamoto maybe potentially. I like this. I feel a lot. I do think that if there's one more guy that they can get sort of regular A-Bs, it's going to help them both offensively and defensively. Yeah, if they score five runs again, they can do what they want. They want to do a little bit of that. What do you think of keys at bats? They've been better. They've been much better, much more competitive. When he first got up, it was well, let's see what this kid's got. And the league said, oh, we need to make an adjustment.

37:25They made an adjustment really quickly and sort of exposed that north-south spin. Then he goes down. He makes a bit of an adjustment. Gets that home running Kansas City on a breaker. You could tell he had just really needed that to kind of feel like he belongs because they were hammering with spin. He got another double yesterday off the gromm off of spin. They're competitive. He's in the zone a lot. I like his stance. It's a very simple, compact move. Guys that can potentially go to the opposite field, those are always really scary hitters, especially lefties. And we remember that first home run on Canada Day to the opposite field. The fact that he's more competitive, that's what you want to see is a guy that's focusing on one thing. Maybe it's spin and he's not one, two, three, see you later. But he's intriguing to me. I'm not 100% sure where he fits. But as you know, Kevin, back legs and balls here and there, you hit your way in the line up the Elf. Find a place. Absolutely. Last one. I know you got to go dominate to TV. So, I think he's really, uh, uh, Soriano, do you think Soriano can dominate by throwing just

38:26sinkers? I'm starting to wonder about that. Just a sort of those, you know, having the ball put in play all the time is not the easiest thing. And if you don't think the answer to that is yes he can. What could he do with the other pitches to make the sinker better? Yes. He can. His sequence is still stuck. Um, it's just that simple. I he, if he dominates, who's fault that? Both of them. Everyone, if he dominates the glove side with a thinker, yeah, I just don't understand why you, you do some of the things you do, like get really, really good at dominating a glove side sinker to a right hand of batter. They have to look all the way out over there. Mm-hmm. You can tell within one take if they're looking out there or if they're still trying to pull to try to pull, stay out there, sinker slider back door. If they look like they're covering sinker in, then he tries to do too much too quick in a game. And it's like, bro, just establish that side of the plate with that type of bowling ball action. It's, it's very simple to me, but for whatever reason, it's like, we gotta go here, here, here, here, here. And before you know,

39:28like he's lost command and then blah, blah, blah, blah, like dominate with a sinker, but the sequencing sucks. It, it, for me, it is, it is sucked. And then you got a guy looking down, boom, forcing them up top. Like you have to establish something if you're going to lean on the sinker to then counter. But if you're like, sort of sinker, sort of forcing, sort of split, like, they can guess in one direction and still get it, like set it up correctly and have a game plan and don't move away from it until the hitter forces you to do something. Got the answer I was looking for. It is indeed. We're gonna let you go dominate. See you buddy. Sounds good. Thanks for going. Caleb Joseph, our blue J central analyst. We got tickets to give away. Yeah. I think this is the final one of the year. Uh oh. Is it really? I think so. Oh, boo. I think it is. Hmm. We've been giving you the chance to win blue J tickets all season long here in Blair and Barker. All you have to do is text the correct answer to our daily baseball trivia question 59590. Standard message and data rates may apply. I last question an answer was he has played for five

40:30different MLB teams, including the J's and Reds. He's drafted by the J's, but did not make his MLB debut with him. He was dealt away to the NL by the organization, but resigned with Toronto a decade later during a second stint with the J's. He became a team's full-time closer for the first time in his career. The Dodgers love seeing him come into the game name him. I just threw that in. Oh, the answer is rough off. What an ass you are. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're looking at that ass thing. Today's question is to win tickets to see the J's and Reds in September 27th at the Rodgers Center. I love this guy. Yeah, I love this guy. Is that me? He made his MLB debut with the Reds, but is better known as an Oriol and Blue J. He was once traded away for former J's, Starter 1, Guzman. His best season came with Toronto as he finished the year with a 137ER, AIN was named and all star. He is ranked in the top 10 for most saves recorded by a Blue J name. Him again, he made his MLB debut with the Reds. Better known as an Oriol and Blue J. He was once

41:35traded. The former J's, Starter 1, Guzman. He had his best season with the J's, finishing the year of the 137ER and being named and all star. He is ranked in the top 10 for most saves recorded by a Blue J name him. I once killed an entire bottle of Jack Daniels with this man. God love him. Text the answer to 59590 for your shot to win C-Rules at SportsNet.com. The A-slash 590 is always. Standard message and data rates may apply. That's easy. It is an easy one. Yeah, it is an easy one. I don't know why a lot of people didn't like him. I like to do it. But I have to tell him he's stuck. So I would think that I have a little time to do it. Not a lot of the time. A lot of the time. He's not great at it. He had a really hard time. He had a great at it. And then they signed him to a ton of money. Well, your boy did. But well, they signed him to a ton of money as a free agent. I know. I know. I know. I know. I haven't first seen them sign them.

42:38So don't get your facts right now. You made a sound. I got a heavy ear and then the J signed him to a lot of track. And he stuck. No, he had a great year with the Blue J's after they said. Yeah, yeah. God, you're right there. They're in heel with him right there. Right there. It's okay. Everybody's got their guys. Yeah, that's yours. That's yours. I want to. I love you. Raise your voice. Just because Jack Daniels, a whole bottle of that. A couple cigars on the deck. A friend. I think the legendary Tom Young was part of the day. They were. I'm sure they were. They were more the merrier. Anyhow. There you go. Yes. We've solved all the rules. Problems. It was great having Caleb in. Yeah. It's good stuff. Yeah, the sorry, Ana. We haven't really talked about him that much. Yeah. You watching me wonder. Yeah, he seems to think, you know, you push the right button a little bit more. Maybe that would help. Hey, it's I'm going to go on a limb and say I wouldn't hurt.

43:39I mean, I think he's 98 with some late movement. But they, you know, he does have an ending or two where he just kind of falls off a cliff. It's very odd. It's very. You don't think it's mechanical. I have no. Oh boy. You know, I don't I want to say what I want to say, but I'm not going to say it because it is late in the show and, you know, the guy that I want the guy that I'd have to be hard on is, well, we've seen, well, it's not the first time we've seen that. I'm just agreeing with you, Kevin. Yeah, I'm seeing some playoff. I've seen some playoff games that I can bring up that will make you throw your hands in the air wondering why the buttons being pushed that way. And I know it ain't come from the coaches. So yeah, but that, you know, he's a fan favorite. You gotta be careful with that. Like, I don't think it really matters if the guys are fans. Yeah. The guy is the, is a, you know, consistently a pretty good offensive catcher. And he puts up good numbers. And he's a good pitchfream. I'm not. I'm just saying you won't say the name. You won't say the name because you're too much of a coward. I don't want to understand that. But the coward, I don't want to throw a curse.

44:40Yeah, I think actually I've already said maybe Friday that I traded him already. Yeah, he did. So yeah, it's not like I'm afraid. It's just just a fact of, you know, they have a lot more stats than we have. But it is amazing that a dude, those 98 will lay moon and gets hammered. It is hammered. And it is. And you just make you wonder. And also you have made the point. How many times have we watched a game where we have said, for God's sake, go out and talk to the pitcher. Like, no, I'm not, how many times have we, have we watched a game where we've looked at each other? I know, I heard you say, you know, I talked about that rundowns. I've talked about that getting flat footed on Blue J Center, what I was over there. You know, it's the base running. It's optically how you look like it's those things matter. You know, don't matter when your team's the best team in the American league. And you're going to game seven, but when you're not, and you're doing a rundowns backwards. Yeah. The thing is people that, you know, are paying attention and know how to play the baseball. Start to start to say it out loud that, you know, things just need to be done

45:42with a little bit more urgency. That's all I'm saying. You know, nobody said that the dude don't not drive in a run. You know, I, but you've been very, you've been very, complimentary about him as a hitter. He absolutely. I mean, he's sitting over 400 runs this conversation, but man, although all the other parts of his game, and my sister's going to hate me for this because every time I say something bad about Kerkie and I says, name that go Kerkie, she gets so mad at me, how dare you. You know, that ball will hit. I just ship it to the States because she's, you know, it's just my mother gets a bunch of things. But man, she gets so, she gets so mad at me, but facts or facts, like it's just kind of word, we're there at us in order to say, now I'm not saying it ever happened. Them to rating him because you know, they're in love with that. But it's the way you see that. They're in love with that. You make it sound like that. Like it's some sort of, I don't know that. Obviously, I'm going to tell you right now, who would you rather have, this just me saying, I'd rather watch Valens Well in the last six games. And I would Kerkie, that's just me. I'd rather that's where I'm mad in the season of the Toronto Bluge.

46:44That's just me. I'm going to tell you if you let me finish. Why don't believe you're because you're not going to know. I would rather have Valens Wella behind the plate every day in Kerkie D. Aging for the next six games. Yes. I would. I would. I guess. I mean, it's realistic as you can't catch six days in a row, but I know. Well, you know, you got an off day. That would happen. Gave him gobs of money. I'm, but I'm in the minority with that area. Everybody's fans of him. Like I think I don't think you're in the, I mean, I'm in that small minority as much as I just don't know. I don't know. You're not in the minority. It says I don't know enough about Brandon Valens Wella yet that he could be my everyday catcher in the team that expects to go to the playoffs. That's all. Mayors want to say I'm fine. I'm scoring five runs a game. I can make Valens Wella work. We're not going to score five runs a game without Kerkie in the lineup. So there you go. You want to bet me what I do in the off season of my lineup. You want to bet me? We're going to bring it. I figured out. I mean, I got to hurt a khaki's and gobs of money.

47:44I'll figure it out. I mean, again, look, that's not you can't say that going in the off. You can't say what you've been saying and then say that and then when they don't. Like you can't, you can't have your cake. It needed too much. I certainly can't. Oh boy, you can't. I certainly can't. Boy, you're trying. Look at me. I can't. You are. You are trying. You cannot do it. Like, you know, we're seeing there needs to be an overhaul of the lineup. We can all agree with that. Yes. That needs to be an overhaul. You know, but there's also, you know, there's realistic. There's a realistic overhaul saying that's not true. And you it's the same thing with you. I would, I just don't want to see Okamoto's my every day third basement. I don't mind having him do it. And I realize I can't have him at DH and Kirk E. DH. I get all that. I'm sure you could line it up. You don't have an everyday DH to where what your dude does on the mound would allow the guy third to not be involved all the time. That's like you could add it up to where. But you've been married to spring or what you should.

48:44That deal has been really good. Like he's done all he should do and then some. I don't I don't. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'll tell you. Hell there I. You know, we solved all the world. Oh, he fixed it. What happens if the J's make the playoffs? We're going to have to just put her in. I said they were going to the start the show. So I'd be right. He is. That's it for us. What we're doing, Blue J's talk tonight. We'll be back tomorrow. Go to the baseball.