Do school lunches really need an overhaul?

0:00NPR. This is The Indicator From Planet Money. I'm Whalen Wong, and I'm joined today by producer Julia Richie. Hello! I came to talk about something most of us have had, but not always enjoyed. School lunches. You know what I did enjoy in middle school getting the nachos? Basically, just corn tortilla chips with, like, reheated cheese whiz. That is basically my mid-week meal still, so yes. Delicious. It's a classic. We recently covered the federal government's new, inverted food pyramid on the show. Among other changes, it places meat and dairy alongside fruits and veggies. Public schools are supposed to follow these dietary guidelines in the meals they serve students. In school lunches, our part of the Trump administration's broader, make America healthy again, agenda. US Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins told Fox News that officials want to re-standards

1:00for school lunches. A lot of our schools don't even have an oven anymore. You know, back when I was growing up, the lunch ladies were back there cooking the meals on the stoves and then serving it. So how do we completely and fundamentally change the system to go back to where we're serving the healthy whole food and nutrients to these kiddos? On today's show, do schools need another menu overhaul? We go back to the cafeteria to see what kids are actually eating and whether school districts on tight budgets can afford the latest changes. This message comes from Comcast. Nothing brings people together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Exfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps on to the world stage, people are not just watching, they're cheering together. This winter, everyone's on the same team, Comcast, proud partner of Team USA.

2:05This message comes from Kachava. Sometimes you crave a treat while prioritizing your wellness goals. Kachava's newest coffee flavor is the perfect treat. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold flavor from decaffeinated Brazilian beans, 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, and more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code in PR. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's kachava.com code in PR. The debate over how to make school lunch is healthier isn't new. You might remember former First Lady Michelle Obama's push to get kids to eat more veggies more than 15 years ago. Yes, I remember she enlisted elbow to help. So how do you guys feel about getting kids pumped up and excited about eating healthy food? Ellen, it's wonderful. Ellen loves happy foods. The Ellen thinks that fruits and vegetables are delicious.

3:06As part of her efforts, the U.S. Department of Agriculture did a major overhaul of its school lunch guidelines in 2010, putting limits on calories and reducing fat and sodium. And the Biden administration released a big update again in 2024. But it takes a while for these changes to make their way to school trays. For example, schools this year now have to limit added sugar and milk, cereal, and yogurt. By 2027, they'll have a weekly limit of the amount of calories that come from added sugars for all breakfasts and lunch. This is the sound of school lunch at Johns Island Elementary School near Charleston, South Carolina. At most public schools, they participate in the National School Lunch Program, which reimburses them per pupil. Lunch starts at 11 a.m. Kids go through the line in single file and get to choose their lunch, like Zabia. Can I ask you what you got to eat today? I have teriyaki chicken with rice.

4:07What are the kinds of lunches do you like to get here? Pizza, macaroni, and chicken nuggets. I have a holy trinity of school lunches. At Johns Island, they have a hot meal option. Today, it's orange or teriyaki chicken with broccoli. Then there's what's called the cold option of a PB&J uncrustible in a pack of goldfish crackers, which another kid named Jackson was drawn to. I might just get some of this cold lunch right over here because it has goldfish. Because goldfish is so good. Goldfish is so good. Plus, one goldfish is so good. I have a Costco-sized box of it in my pantry. They even have a salad bar, which Angela McLaughlin is especially proud of. She's executive director of nutrition services for their region schools. It's really exciting when you see a five or six-year-old gravitating toward a side salad instead of corn. On any given day, Charleston County is serving about 16,000 kids for breakfast and 30,000

5:10students for lunch. Across about 80 schools. It's not what people remember. We're running 80 restaurants every single day and we're serving a great breakfast and a really wonderful lunch every single day. Their meal program is self-operating. It's funded through a combination of reimbursements from the federal government and special sales, not its general operating fund for the school district. That means every penny counts. For a student who qualifies for free lunch, the USDA will reimburse Angela's schools up to $4.71 per lunch. The rate is less for children who pay full price, it's only $0.44 per lunch. When Angela creates their meal plans for the year, she wants their cost per meal to come in lower. Ideally, around $2.15. When you're looking at your budget overall, you're looking at 40 to 45% on your food and supplies and then you're looking at 40 to 45% for labor and staffing and then the rest is indirect cost, direct cost, things like that.

6:13In order to get those federal dollars, schools have to follow the USDA's dietary guidelines. They must provide kids a fruit, a vegetable, a protein, a whole grain, and milk, although they can't require kids to eat everything. In Charleston, kids have to pick three out of five components and one has to be a fruit or vegetable. The key here, Angela says, is they're giving students options. She says this system teaches kids to cultivate their pallets. It also cuts down on food waste and lowers food costs for the school. We're not just saying, here's your trade, take everything on it. We're letting them pick and then that affords them more buy into the process and they can get what they want. So that really does impact the food cost. On the day we visited, the price of that hot plate of chicken, brown rice, broccoli, and fruit cost about $1.64, well within their budget. But other times, the district splurges. Like at over $3, bone-in chicken wings do not come in under budget. So the district serves that with other, less expensive things to average out costs.

7:14And remember, like we said earlier, it takes a long time for new guidelines to go into effect. As the Biden administration's rules are still playing out, the Trump administration is suggesting new ones. Among the proposals, increasing protein portions, reducing the number of ultra-processed foods, and putting an emphasis on making more foods from scratch instead of reheating items. Diane Pratt-Hevner with the School Nutrition Association is skeptical. Her group represents 50,000 K through 12 nutrition workers, including Charleston. Schools have, for a long time, been trying to increase the amount of scratch and fresh prepared foods that they're serving students. But they're very limited in terms of budget, staffing, equipment, and infrastructure. They will always rely on food companies to supply some of the items that they're offering with school meals. Nearly 900 school districts in school nutrition professionals wrote an open letter to the administration this month with their concerns.

8:15It's not just the funding for upgrading kitchens. They're also worried about how the new Trump administration guidelines focus on costly meat, but limit fiber. Furthermore, Diane's school lunches often get a bad rap, but that's an outdated stereotype. You know, schools are already meeting these calories, sodium, added sugar, and fat limits. So they've done a lot of the work, and there's research showing that school meals are actually the healthiest meals that Americans are eating today because they're already meeting these standards. We emailed the USDA to ask about rising costs, and if schools could see a bump in those reimbursements. A spokesperson said these rates are adjusted annually and keep pace with food costs. School districts are doing a lot to increase healthy foods on their own. Like Angela in Charleston says they do something called speed scratch with pre-made and fresh ingredients for the rotini sauce. But even if they do make more food from scratch, kids may not want it. Ask any parent. It takes them convincing to get them to try new things.

9:17Angela says that's her biggest challenge to keeping kids healthy and fed in 2026. I think it's keeping them engaged and making sure that we are treating them as the very intelligent consumers they are. Whalen, I tried the orange chicken at John's Island, and it was pretty good. I'm not going to lie. Did you get the little milk cartons, too? Oh, I swiped two chocolate milks. Some habits die hard. No one else was taking milk, so I was like, I'm going to help myself here. This episode was produced by Vido Emanuel, an engineer by Robert Rodriguez, was fact-checked by Sierra Huatis, kicking cannon as the show's editor and the indicator is a production of NPR. This message comes from NPR sponsor Charles Schwab with its original podcast on investing. It's hosted by Liz Ann Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist and Colin Martin,

10:21head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research. Each week, Liz Ann, Colin and their guests analyze economic developments and bring context to conversations around stocks, fixed income, the economy, and more. Download the latest episode and subscribe at Schwab.com slash on investing, or wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from Kachava, sometimes you crave a treat while prioritizing your wellness goals. Kachava's newest coffee flavor is the perfect treat. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold flavor from decaffeinated Brazilian beans, with 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, and more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to Kachava.com and use code NPR. New customers get 15% off their first order. It's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com, code NPR.