Does Clarity Come Before Or After Belief? (2381)

Alan and I had a discussion and my firm belief now more than ever is one of the

best ways to get clarity is to have belief but if you don't have belief in what

you're a capable of obviously it's gonna be really hard to get clarity I

think having a conversation about that is probably worth it I just don't know

what answers we will leave with clarity is the unsung hero of all external

success welcome to next level university I'm your host Kevin Paul Mary and I'm

your co-host Alan Lazarus at NLU we believe in a heart-driven but no BS

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today for episode number 2,381 does clarity come before or after belief we've

talked about my delusions of how I was gonna be a successful baseball player

you know it's my life was just gonna work out delusions of grandeur delusions of

grandeur did I believe that it was possible yeah probably to a detriment okay

okay what must you have in order to believe it's possible that that's the

starting point I think it's two things okay two things you believe the

strategy that you have is sound that's one or you believe you are resourceful

enough to find the strategy yeah nice simple right very strong poke holes in

that so far so good that's it that's the end yeah I think it's very good the

the only thing I'd say is it leads to the question of how do you know whether

or not you're believing in something that's that's actually possible and in a

way it's you never really know only time will tell the truth that's what I used

to always say time always tells the truth like how do you know if you have the

right strategy you believe you do until you realize you don't and then you but

but you start so you get yeah it is this is the confidence kind of in a nutshell

right if you don't believe that you won't start it but I I don't know I feel like

well give us the give us the reason you want to do this episode then we'll

we'll dive in usually we start with a story that is the reason we're doing the

episode I royally Jeff that today so we're reading peak performance in book club

the next level book club every Saturday 12 30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time link will

be in the show notes to register it's totally free I promise you you will

leave book club smarter than you came in and we're gonna shake the snow globe

every time it's a pretty cool thing tank at this point all right so in book club

on Saturday there was probably 10 11 12 people there in and out and we were

reading chapter three of peak performance and it talks a lot about deep

practice deliberate practice and deliver if you ever heard of the 10,000 hour

rule it's basically based on that sort of premise there's a study that was

done with violinists that whole thing and what they found in the study is that

it's not just people who have experience that creates expertise it's people who

practice very intentionally very deliberately very deeply and it's the way

that they practice so it's not practice makes perfect it's perfect practice

makes perfect and there's five bullet points of what constitutes deliberate

practice based on the study okay so I pull up the five bullet points and I

start book club and I say okay let's set the stage here the first thing we

got to figure out is what do you actually want to be great at what do you want

to master because if you don't know that you can't put these into practice you

certainly won't put them into practice long enough to be great so Brandon was

in there for you Brandon it was it was football okay you wanted to play college

football maybe being the NFL but most likely just college he was a smaller guy

and then okay for you Bonnie it's dancing been dancing for 33 years okay for

you it's like okay so I open the question I said who here knows exactly what

they want to be world class at let me rephrase that who here knows exactly what

they want to be top 1% at because top 1% is not that hard give me a sec all

right top 1% is one out of a hundred there's eight billion people on earth it's

not that hard to be top 1% in something you're not going to be top 1% in

everything that's impossible actually impossible okay being top 1% in

something is not that hard especially if you dedicate your life to it but first

you have to have clarity of what you want to be and here's the thing that I

want to bring to the listeners this is always pissed me off bothered me

fresher to me whatever made me sad you name it I prefer frustration over sadness

so that's what I'm usually using don't build your career how how are you

supposed to be super successful if you don't know what you want to be super

successful at okay Serena Williams tennis Michael Phelps swimming you can do

this with anyone who's super successful Leonardo Caprio acting I don't you

don't have to like lover dislike any of these people I don't care the the

concept is the same you have to master a craft in order to be the best at

something and this is the thing that I want to connect for everybody if you

want a successful career you have to get really good at something that people

value you have to that's not my opinion that's not a fucking option like the kids

I went to college with some of them I remember this one person I coached he

was an Android coder he was on the higher end we'll say top 5% of Android

coders he made 250 grand a year with minimal work like I remember thinking this

dude is not that hard working like he does well I guess but I mean my goodness

and it's this fascinating thing where it's like this dude just happened to get

really good at something that is really needed did you think he did it on

purpose in hindsight no maybe a little right but when I chose my career I chose

computer engineering because I knew it would be needed I wasn't gonna like go

into farming you know not that farming's not needed but it's not nearly as needed

okay remember we there was a there was an episode we did back in the day where

Alan said some at one of the quotes Alan's mom you can be a CEO or a farmer yeah

I'm gonna love you either way but if you go for CEO you can't just wake up one day

and be a farm or you can anyways yeah that's the quote somebody reached out and

said my cousins a farmer how dare you talk shit about farmers we're not talking

shit about farmers that was just a they said it was just a fucking oh they're

honest it's like you know what shout out to your aunt shout out shout out to the

metaphor yeah it's a goddamn metaphor no but one of the things that I I really

want to drive home here who who is more needed in the current economy a computer

engineer or a farmer computer engineer right now I'm not saying anything against

farmers I'm just stating a statistical fact based on the current economy just like

robotics computer engineering mechanical engineering these things are very

critical that they're very needed they're saying very needed there's certain

things that aren't needed I don't care how passionate you are about it okay

continue I was gonna say just like what do you think would you rather have

something online or a fucking newspaper that's what I'm saying you know

newspapers are on if you work in a newspaper because those are things instead of

people that's sure well if people work it the newspaper yeah agreed okay how

okay how did you I know it was through the car accident I believe okay what

was the first inclination for you that you wanted to go from computer

engineering to this well first of all no I was I was tell me about you you know

about me computer engineer MBA CEO yeah but I learned something you said when

you were younger you had plans when you had allergies that I had never heard of

before so there's things I'm learning I'm still learning things about you yeah

well I had explored you know doctor lawyer engineer all that stuff like you you

you got a you can okay that's a good point you got to explore like pharmacist

like you got to think when I was a kid I would like think about what everyone does

I'm always asking that question other people don't care that much it's like I need

to know what you do why does that matter because that's a big part of who you

are I've adopted that I met somebody golf and I said what do you do in the

world that's what Allen used to say all the time what do you do what do you do in the

world is not such an important question that's probably I like it because I

think you can learn so much about somebody especially by because nobody just

says what they do they always give you something after and it's usually like

okay I can tell you're trying to sell me the fact that you like this I can tell

you know yeah ours are good it's like okay you fucking hit your job fine totally

fine I understand or people are like people are like I met somebody and he said

you know I don't really want to be doing this forever but I think it's a really

good start it's like fuck yeah awesome I love that for you like that's you're

already thinking the future so yeah nice okay so so you asked me the question of

why did I go from computer engineer yes to this I didn't right I went from an

outside sales engineer technically on my way to a chief officer yeah but what

was your old career path your identity at that time was still within the

silo of what you would learn college to a degree yeah I would say I still

would have read it resonated with an engineer yeah definitely yeah yeah okay but

wait okay when good computer engineer was just a stepping stone toward a

greater and I this is the thing that I want to share with everybody too some

people have a job some people have a career some people have a calling I don't

know if that lands I would love to hear your take on it never never never nope

okay the truth is that's for now that I know it doesn't live that's for that's

fortune cookie shit brother it's practical as fuck all right here's the deal

car kid and a bus boy for a golf course that's a job that in a career okay I didn't

like golfing I didn't like people at the golf course I didn't you know I'm not a

fan of the whole thing not a fan okay didn't have a good experience that was

just a job a job is when you're just there to make money a career is different

so when I was working as an intern at iRobot as a global product manager that

was part of my career see the difference it's you take it way more

seriously of course it's like they build you a high school sweetheart

relationship versus like a fling versus this is my wife you the investment

level the meaning is different so you ask me one time what's the difference

you know movie in a film a film is something that blood sweat and tears and

heart and soul was put into a movie is like you ever see what's that stupid

fucking movie where they just are driving around and shit like the whole time

it's like Mad Max or whatever that's a film if there ever was one oh come on

yeah that's it that come on no no not a to me it's not it's not a meaningful

film I would say the difference between a movie and a film is the asshole trying

to sell it to you to me that's just an entertaining ride Mad Max or whatever

if you're erode I don't care for movies like that for me that's not it for me

right a deeply meaningful film would be like good with wanting okay anyways

doesn't matter the point is job career calling I didn't go from computer

engineer to this I went from computer engineer building a career toward CEO

eventually chief officer whatever toward my dreams and goals to calling I found

my calling at 26 let's have that conversation let's do that this this podcast

is adapting and changing as Kevin and I do I want to talk to you about this and

this is relevant to clarity okay when someone says they're in their calling the

debate about that I think most people are lying okay okay okay do you think I'm

lying no okay okay why why do you think other people are lying and I'm not I

know I'm not but I think there's something here for everybody because I see you

behind the scenes I have no idea what that means I appreciate it I've seen you do

the same thing every day for the last 2,380 episodes like I know yeah I just

know you behind the scenes so I know so how do you know the other people

like that you didn't say anything you just said I know I'm asking for

indicators I know someone wait trans you see them doing dumbbell rows like tell

me the stuff you show up every single day you're obsessed with you're obsessed

with helping people to a fucking detriment of yourself at times that you you you

are so invested in it that you will do it to the detriment of yourself by

choice that's how I know okay give me an anonymous example of someone who says

they're in their calling who you know is not anonymous but I want you thinking of

a real person this is where the goods are podcasts are trying to add value but

you're not really allowed to one of the things that pisses me off about podcasting

is you can't talk negatively about anybody but the problem is you can't get

any truth if you don't call a spade a spade so I'm not trying to be mean we're

gonna keep this anonymous but I want you thinking of a real a real person and I

want you to tell me what you really think I don't know

who thinks they're in their calling who isn't and you know they're not honestly

I don't know that many people personally that say that this is more like in

the online this is one of those like hey who here as a growth mindset and

everybody's hand goes up no one's gonna acknowledge they don't have a growth

mindset to a degree but like I don't do number one I don't hang out that many

people yeah fair I don't know from the past I didn't necessarily I didn't

really hang out with people that would say they had a calling okay mission

per one one one one I have one mind you got one nice yes what are you trying to

do I'm gonna look like an asshole when I say for sure well that's what we're

gonna risk you okay with that yeah of course this person said their calling was

to be a father okay I strongly disagree okay okay how do you know that's not

their calling because if it truly was their calling they would have done more

for their children than they did they it wasn't about they just said that that

was like a cop out not to improve in life they that wasn't oh okay then show

me show me this is this is your calling this is your call and this is your

calling would you have needed to see more investment yeah more investment

ambition the game skin in the game more proof like this didn't show you didn't

show them show them I think it was I think it's a cop out I think it was a

cop I'm not saying that in every case yeah of course okay I've met people for

sure who when they say like my calling is to be a great parents like far that

is abundantly clear like amazing that's amazing that's a good question right

there I don't think that was the case you're thinking of someone else who it

really is their calling yeah yeah yeah you know it's interesting sometimes the

people where it is they're calling don't say it is I'm thinking of someone right

now who doesn't say that's their calling but it definitely is well I think that's a

piece of it is like I don't that's a thing almost if somebody says it's their

calling I immediately start questioning it you know maybe that's why and again

I don't think this is my calling I don't know if I even fucking have one this

that's why it's a weird conversation like I I like this and I love helping

people but I if you if you asked me like do you think this is your calling I don't

think I would say yes well the the level one is I don't have a calling level two

is I don't have a calling but I want to so I say I do level three is you do have

a calling but don't know it and you're in it even if you don't know it and then

level four is you're in your calling you've dedicated your life to it

consciously and you say it out loud it's very hard to determine level two from

four how do you know though how does one know you can't imagine it's almost like

nothing else is aligned even though it would be easier that's why I make the

joke about the order rings I could sell order rings for sure I could I would love

to get a job at aura that would be awesome but it wouldn't I can't do it I can't

it's not an option like let me explain that better I can't imagine I would

regret that for the rest of my life because it's not it's not what I'm on

earth for I know that I'm not on earth to make order rings I'm on earth to to do

what I'm doing right now and do it better when did you know better like did you

know what did you say when did you know it was abundantly clear after my car accident at 26 it was like

you are supposed to be doing this work in the world did you have when did you

start listening to Tony before or after after after did you have years ago his

Ted talk and I was like and there was there was hints before that remember the

trainer I talked about a cogniz that I was like that something with what he he was teaching

people public speaking and I remember thinking like I was jealous envy I think envy is is proof

of your calling but I realize now that that's not always true because some of the things

you're envious of are just stupid like not stupid vain shallow shallow yeah shallow like if

you're envious of someone who who has a nicer car than you like that's not your calling

you calling it maybe it is though maybe you love cars so much that that's your calling

I don't know if cars can be a calling a calling or a purpose has to be something in service of

the greater good it has to even if you're delusional about it it has to be and I think that that's

what makes a purpose a calling and a mission like what is the point it has to be bigger than you

that's back to clarity if you don't have clarity on that which I realized in book club book

clubbers you know I love you I say that every time I have been getting breakthroughs in book club

because I've been asking some questions and we've had these really cool brainstorms and

people are like I said okay who here wants to tell me what they're they're thing is what's the

thing you want to be world class at what's the thing you want to be top one percent and people

couldn't answer some people couldn't answer and it's like oh we got to start there

what are you gonna I mean I'm not good at cooking but that's by choice that's by choice one of my

clients Nina the purpose filled kitchen right she she loves cooking it fulfills her and she's good

at it and she's consciously getting better at it you're not gonna stumble upon being great in life

like ever you know you don't you don't kind of stumble upon greatness and if you do you should have

been way greater doesn't it isn't it like how obvious is it when you think of like you have to choose

what you want to be good at but you have to believe you're gonna be good at enough good enough

at it to be able to choose like there is something yeah there's like a block there it's like

and I think that's that's piece one and I think the other pieces it's very easy to say it

and then like give yourself the benefit of the doubt of like okay it's gonna take a long time

and then just not check in on it again for like a long time I think that is such a common thing

all the stuff I said I want it to be great at I like dipped my toe like mix I regret I don't regret

a ton I don't know why it's I just that's not necessarily the way I'm wired I guess and I don't

really regret this honestly but like I should have given way more to mix martial arts if I actually

wanted to do it I just didn't want to do it as much as I made it seem like wouldn't that mean it's

not you're calling kind of knowing because in hindsight there's so many indicators like I was so

coachy dude I was so coachy and that's a bad thing for most people most people like he's kind

of coachy but it's easy to say I am I still I don't know I loved I loved it I was naturally I was

naturally pretty good at it did you believe that you could make a career of it I don't think I

was even thinking of that how could you do something and not think of that like I don't know

and again I know that I'm on the weird end of this so I'm saying I think to a degree I did

it say I do I think to a degree because I used to have to just doing it for fun like there's a

lot of things you can do for fun but you like if you could go back and talk to younger kev and this

is what school is supposed to do school is not doing this well enough that's my truth villainize

me if you want I don't give a shit that it's not doing this career development class where the

fuck was that at dude imagine if I taught a career development class the first lesson clarity

on what you want to do with your life now here are the options you can be doctor lawyer engineer

podcast like here are the off let's just talk about it you don't have to know right now no one

knows at 11 but you can at least home all right I don't like cooking can't fucking stand it okay

well that ain't it right obviously leaf blowing ain't gonna do it right and maybe maybe it is

if you like landscaping but you understand you like being outside do you care do you like

computers do you know we need to have a conversation about here's what the economy actually needs now

and in the future that will be valued and here's what you deeply love and is meaningful for you

and let's merge them have a love child and build a career like basketball didn't exist

150 years ago I mean it did but there was no market for it you couldn't you couldn't get paid

to do it you know if we taught a course on this people I feel like a lot of us are wandering around

aimlessly hoping it works out and that ain't gonna work it ain't gonna work it like the chances

of that working are very slim super like Christian bail was acting at like seven of course he's

gonna be world class he started at like seven well even that though like how many people do

start at seven that don't make it well not I mean here's the thing if you start at seven and you're

even remotely talented and you have clarity to stick with it yeah you're gonna be reasonably successful

you're gonna but like that's what I'm all I'm saying is like did he want to do it at seven yeah

that's a great point that's it uses the serena and venet like you think they wanted they wanted it

at seven or however you think tiger woods wanted to be out swinging his little driver at four

years old like I probably not maybe I don't know maybe is he the best golfer to ever exist sure did he

was he built in a lab for lack of better phrasing to be also maybe

you know helps decided at thirteen but did he decide right and that's the the question I don't

know it is it is wonky the whole thing is the whole thing is because I do it I'm telling you I didn't

I didn't think it was my calling to be a podcaster I just I thought it would be awesome but you used

to say I need to be the person I needed at my darkest moment I think if I have a calling it's

to be a good man but that's a very and then what's good statement what does that mean

a positive I don't know I don't know what it means to have positive start positive interactions

one of the reasons it's hard to be a podcaster in public is like I don't like I don't want to hurt

people's feelings I strongly dislike hurting people I don't I feel like there's a good

because anytime you choose one side not anytime oftentimes when you choose one side the other side

feels um some type of way about it so even like the story I said about the person that I'm thinking

of who said their calling was to be a dad that's like a cop out if they were to hear this that would

be extremely offensive to them now they're not going to hear this because but but wouldn't it also

help them I don't know isn't it possible that it would pop their bubble and get them to reassess

their I think it's definitely I think it's possible yeah you can't really achieve anything in life

when you don't take a stand you and I have talked about that in the past you don't you want to you

want to help people transform their lives but you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings good but I

think there's a way to I think there's a way to delicately show conflict without

toxicity there's definitely a way to do that well you and I have talked about this in the past

I gotta go in a second yeah the you being a good man is your calling maybe you don't know exactly

what being a good man is in terms of like the the line items even though you know it when you see it

but you at least know not being disrespectful not being a toxic not being not like

controlling other people and manipulating and lying and you know what I mean so yeah

you but even though you know what a shitty man is and you know what it looks like and you don't

want to be that right which I respect of course I've had a trouble walking the line of I want to help

people transform and I don't like it when people don't like me and in order to help you transform I

have to risk you not liking me and that's been really hard so syntax matters in that but to be

continued if nothing else I hope clarity came of this and and the only wrong answers to not think

about this stuff like do not wing it and hope the next 30 years work out I don't care how old you

are the clarity is absolute you're not going to design a magnificent life on accident I think for

tomorrow we should try to come up with like the five things like what are the five things you must

be clear on I love it a good little challenge for us yeah sounds good good little challenge all right

if you are looking for a group of amazing humans who are doing amazing things in the world and

dedicated to getting to the next level join next level nation our private Facebook group we will

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