Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future

0:00Brought to you by the EveryDollar app, start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show and Ramsey Personality. He's my co-host today. Ginny is with us in Orlando. Hi Ginny, what's up? Hello guys. I'm just kind of tired of this financial dynamic that I have with my spouse for context. We've been together 15 years or almost 40 and I'm the breadwinner. I make about 170,000 a year and he makes 65. I'm more so now getting passionate about not caring debt, making smart choices and possibly

1:00buying a business, but I can't seem to change his mind about these balanced transfers and by now pay later programs. I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that dynamic with someone that views money so differently and I typically am the one to rescue and at what point do I stop rescuing from these, what I consider to be very poor and long-term financial choices? Does he have a seat at the table with you? He does. We talk about finances every single month and I express kind of my displeasure about these things and it's always the same thing. I would zero person interest for 18 months and buy and I'll pay. Let me, I didn't ask a good question. That was my bad. Do y'all have a co-created vision that y'all are both working towards? Or does every month he come to the table and get taken to the wood shed by the breadwinner, the boss? You know what I'm saying? Yes, I say we're working toward the same

2:00vision and he has gotten a little bit better but I can't get him to understand like even though it's zero person interest, it's still money. He sees it as this is 18 months, it's a Scott free deal, it'll be paid before then. When we just view it so differently, I'm kind of now learning if you can't pay a cash, you can't afford it. Yeah, that's a great lesson. Thanks to you guys. Yeah, we just view it so differently and it's just building up a lot of resentment and I don't want to, like you said, breadwinner, bring them to the table, give me the credit cards, I'm going to cut them up but also I just, I'm not in alignment with opening more stuff just because of the bells and whistles that they're dangling on the front end. The only way I've seen this be successful in Dave, you've got way more experience with this. The only way I've seen this be successful is you opening the hood to your heart and your spirit and you telling him not, hey when you do this and you need to do this and this was dumb but you saying, debt scares me.

3:07That makes me feel less safe. Debt makes me feel like somebody else is controlling our lives and I want you and me to be in control of our life. And now he's getting to the source, he's not getting lectured. You get, you get the difference? Yeah, I'm not okay. I'm not okay with either one of us. I'm not okay with either one of us making a large money decision without the other one or in perpendicular to the values of the other one and you keep doing that. And I'm not okay. This is not okay. But do you see how what you think it's harmless and it's harming me? Yeah. I'm not okay. This is scaring the crap out of me. I worry about our future because of this because we're not aligned. And if you've made a bunch of expensive, expensive purchases, you go out and buy yourself a car. You like, you lead with that. I've made purchases without even talking to you about it. I got excited about this thing. We're not even talking to you about it. Now

4:07I'm going to own that. But I want us to start to do this together. We've got to build a thing together because you know, us being on different pages is harming our relationship because it's terrifying me. Yeah. I think because of how much I make, like he doesn't see 10 or 15,000. That's a lot of money. I see that. That's irrelevant to the feeling. Yeah. It doesn't matter who makes more. It doesn't matter who makes what. It doesn't matter how much the income is versus the behavior. It's the behavior that's causing me to be terrified. Right. You introduce yourself to us as I'm Jenny, the breadwinner. Does he walk around getting told that a lot? I make more money. I make a lot of money. No, but I think it gives him that safety of it's only 10,000. It's only 15,000. It just seems like so little because I make so much about to me every dollar I make. I want it to grow and multiply and he's still. This makes me feel the same way as if you brought home a half

5:10a pound of cocaine. That's a lot of cocaine and I'm not going to go this way. This is a violation of my values and it terrifies me. It's not a matter of the money. It's a matter of us doing things that are directly a spear point sticking in my arm every time you do this or every time I do something that does that to you. We're not going to do things that we're not aligned on. So Sharon has, my wife has some things after 45 years that she loves to do that I frankly do not understand. There are purchases we make that I have zero emotional investment in, but I can come alongside because I get the point that it's important to her to do that thing and she gets the same thing with me. Why do you need another gun? Well, because somebody made one. It does not emotionally, but she goes, okay, it's within my emotional

6:20tolerance to do something with money that I don't understand, but I know gives you joy. Same thing with her buying whatever X, Y or Z, or putting some money in savings a certain way makes her feel different than it does me. That kind of a thing. So all we're doing is serving each other rather than ourselves. It's selfishness versus, you know, submit yourselves one to another scripture says. And it's the other one that's hard. You submitting to me, Z, me submitting to you. That one's hard. Yes. And I'm submitting. It doesn't mean I do what you say. It means I care what you think so much that we're not going to do something that terrifies you. Yeah. And she wrote up a great point here that I see couples get sideways on, which is it really matters. She said, I want every dollar to be ROI multiplying and growing. And it sounds like she has a husband who wants to kind of just enjoy the life he's in. And that money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight. The

7:22real issue is you're not aligned on this core value. And what you, I don't want the audience to miss what you just said, because it's important, you make a wee bit, wee barely more than 175K a year. I think you sneeze at that this morning. But like you and Sharon still talk about purchases. We do not make large purchases or gifts without the other one being in the prove. Yeah. And you know, and sometimes the approval is laughing. Sure. You know, it's like, but there's knowledge ahead of time. And we don't get a, it's like, oh, you know, well, let's let's let's let's sit on that a week and pray. Okay. That's a fair answer to. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't understand why are you doing that and explain. Okay. I still don't understand. All right. Let's wait a minute. You know, so yes, no or wait. These are three possible answers. And and all tightwads and nerds can't have every dollar behaving with no fun involved. The other person's there to bring the fun. All right. So I think he's your fun person. So you seem for that. And fun people have to realize bills have to be paid every month,

8:27which is annoying, right? And we need the other side too. Yeah. There's all that thing that the grocery store wants money for those groceries. Who knew? Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance. Or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a good punch. And oh, you're telling me in for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

9:30They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options. And take care of your dad gum family. And term life insurance can replace income, have dads, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team of Zander insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800 356 42 82. Cody is in Chattanooga. Hi, Cody. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

10:32Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. Appreciate you taking the call. Hey, I am a first time homeowner. I bought my house about six months ago. I got it on a 15 year doing biweekly payments. But I just got and going through the process of switching to an arm loan. So a seven year of just a great mortgage. I close on it today. I've got three days to cancel it if I need to. And I feel kind of in my gut, like I might have been making a bad decision. And I wanted to chat with you about it. Okay. What was the interest rate on your old mortgage? 5.625. And the interest rate on the arm is? It's going to be 499 for the next seven years. So five? What? What was the one you got rid of was five? What? Is it 5.625? Okay. So it's less than 100% and your loan balance is what?

11:33It is when I got the house. It was 192. What's your loan balance today? I've managed to pay it down to 168 in the past six months. Okay. So 1% is $1,600 a year. Is the difference? And it's not even that. So it's probably $1,400 a year is your difference. And what was your closing costs on this? My closing costs are going to be about $8,000. So you're not even going to break even? That's what I'm looking at too. And my goal is to pay this off in the next five years. It doesn't matter. Either your goal is irrelevant on this. It's just a simple refinance calculation. If you save $1,400 a month and you pay $8,000 for that purpose and the loan's going to be paid off in seven years, you're not even going to make your money back and interest saved that you paid out in closing costs. Your break even now is a sucks. Got it. So my canceling right now is 1800. It would drop down to 1167. I need to cancel this.

12:40Yes. Cool. Yeah. When you see why? Regardless of what your payment change is, it's the interest change that matters. The only real savings is the interest savings, the difference in five, six, two, and four, nine, nine, which is what? 0.75, three quarters of a point, right? Three quarters of a point is $1,680. So three quarters of a point is around $1,400. Got it. Got it. And I think I had done my math form towards the front end of doing this. And closing, I think I kind of started to figure that out. Okay. So now let's, can I pile on now? Are you okay? Please, please. Which is really just to go back to the real reason that this thing, let's pretend that we had not found that mathematical problem. And instead, you just had signed up for an adjustable rate that is just one time in seven years. If you don't pay it off in seven years, it's going to adjust dramatically. You know that, right? Yeah. Yes.

13:42Okay. And so if your plan doesn't work out, you've got a problem. Yes. Never put together a financial formula that your plan has to work for it to work. It also, it has to work when the plan doesn't work, too. Yeah. Because that's the stuff that we teach is the only stuff, commonsense stuff, the biblically based stuff, get out of that, for instance. Okay. That's the only plan that works when things are good and the plans work out and when the plans don't work out. Yes. So you did a deal here that only works if it works. And those kinds are the ones that will come around butch in the butt later. And so you probably would be okay. Because if it adjusted to, you know, nine or 10 percent or something crazy at the end of that seven years, it wouldn't be much of a balance because you would have paid it way down. But you would not be able to refinance if you were unemployed at that precise moment, which I've gotten that call.

14:46I plan to pay off this balloon in five years and in the 48th month, six, 12 months before the balloon pops, I lost my job and my wife got a cancer diagnosis. And so we're just now our house is being foreclosed on because you built a plan that only works when things work. Right. And that's, that's what that, we wouldn't have a show if there wasn't. I was going to say like doctors and lawyers, like there'd be way fewer of them. And guys like us, if everyone's planned worked all the time. Yeah. Yeah. The one thing is your plan's probably not going to work like functional families. We wouldn't need people with PhD and counseling. That's exactly right. Like if people used to calculate most families put the fun and dysfunctional. So I mean, it's, you know, including mine. So there you go. All right. Fun. Victoria is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Victoria. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. I am looking to see. I am $300, $227,600 in debt.

15:47I'm sorry. I didn't understand that number. That was a number. I didn't know. What was that number? 300. What? $300,000? Yes, indeed. Okay. And how much of that is your home, man? $250,000. Okay. What is the other $45,000 in debt? It is stood alone. And then I have a car that's $12,000 and then my air condition went out. That is $2,000. Your air conditioner went out and you borrowed to get another one. Yes, sir. That's the 2000. Okay. All right. The air conditioner go out and put you in debt. It's the buying the other one that goes you into that. Okay. So the, and what do you make, man? I make between $100,000 to $100,000 in a year. I didn't work any overtime. It would just be a hundred if I do it overtime today. Good for you. Good for you. Okay. I'm caught up with you now and your question is what?

16:48Like would it be smart for me to open up a Roth IRA now even though I'm still in debt and I'm paying off my debt or should I wait till I get all my debt off of me first before I open up the Roth IRA? That is an excellent question. And the good news is you're smart enough to know you need to be investing. That's very smart. Yes, sir. Okay. How old are you? I am 32 years old. Okay. So you're already looking out into the future. Good for you. Well done. So what we have found is after studying this for many, many years and helping millions of people get out of debt and build a wealth and that tens of thousands of them become millionaires is the fastest way to become a millionaire. The fastest way to build substantial investments is to first get out of debt because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Now I'm not talking about your house but we want to get rid of the student loan and the car debt and the air conditioner debt as soon as we can. And the good news is it's only 45,000 and if you work overtime you can make 150 and live

17:49on 100 and be debt free in one year. You'll be 33 with no debt. That'd be pretty cool. But you're going to buckle down more than you ever have. Yes, sir. Because you've been a little sloppy. That's how we got here. Yes. That doesn't make you bad. It just makes you normal. But normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. That's right. Okay. So let's buckle down. Get on beans and rice. Rice and beans. Get on a budget. Get that every dollar app. Download it off the web for free. Get your budget going. And let's knock these debts out ASAP and lay it out on paper where you're done in one year or less. Okay. One year less. Yes, sir. I will. That's 45 from 150 leaves me 105 to live on not counting taxes. You can do that. Okay. Once you focus because you're a person that focuses I can tell. But now that you're paying attention. Now that you're awake game on. Okay. Game on. Okay. All right. And you can do this. And so then what's going to happen is

18:56is that what you used to pay on car payments and student loan payments. When you start putting that into an investment that amount alone will make you a millionaire before you retire. Yes, sir. So I took pay to 45 off and then open the ward. Yes, ma'am. There you go. So we teach a process for getting out of debt and then building wealth. We call it the baby steps. And again, millions of people have done it. I'll send you a copy of the book The Total Money Makeover is my gift. And it shows you exactly how to work those baby steps. And don't make up your own plan Victoria. Do the one we have that works. It's proven. It's proven. It's not because somehow we just dreamed it up. It's millions and millions of people have done that. I sold 20 million of those books. So we know this is moving the needle. And you're you're awake now. So game on.

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21:16Go to Churchill Mortgage.com and get started at Churchill Mortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement in the MSID 1591 in the molestconsumerexas.org Eagle Housing Lender. So I'm really starting to, I mean I was mildly amused with AI to start with, but I'm really starting to love it. Once I understood this one basic thing about AI, here's something you ought to understand. So AI obviously generates an answer for you, you pose an answer for it. But the only thing you can answer from is the data that you give it access to. And so if you control the data inputs, you're controlling the outputs. So for instance, when Google has lost its stupid mind and actually is, when you ask Google a question, it's searching Reddit as if Reddit is some source of truth on anything, 90% of what's in

22:20there's bull crap. So why you would search that for the answer to a question is beyond me. So the AI database is completely screwed up. And so your answer screwed up. But we understand this now, and our team has built the Ask Ramsey AI tool. And what's in it? What's the data that publishes in it? Well, we put three years of the answers from this show in there. We put all the financial peace university in there, all the books we've written here in there. We put all the articles that we've written in there. So there's nothing in there except Ramsey. All of the answers from anywhere we've given, one of us has given, you know, Dr. Deloney, me, Rachel, whoever, and it drops in there. So when you hit the Ask Ramsey AI app, it's going to give you an answer that sounds even as smart as you're going to get here on the air. I mean, it's even got to some of the sarcasm in it. It's awesome. I want them to turn up the sarcasm a little bit more. They took all my jokes about George out though, and that kind of pulled me out. He got his feelings hurt. Ask Ramsey about

23:24George's joke. He drove home in his Tesla in a huff. Except there was no huff, because there's no huff coming up the back of his Tesla. See, there's a good George joke right there. All right, so here's some, we get questions and we always go down and because you need to check this app out. It's at ramseysolution.com. It's free Ask Ramsey. If you can't get through on the air here, which nobody can because he's lined with jammed all the time, you can just go over there and ask Ramsey. So here's the number, and we always come in and give you the number one question of the day of the week. So the number one question this week, or what are the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting? So I read an old Ziegler quote this weekend that said, no one accidentally got to the top of Mount Everest. I always say no one accidentally won the Super Bowl. Winning is an intentional act. And so if winning with money is an intentional act, what are the tactical things you do in budgeting is the main one. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. You give every dollar and assignment every month before the month begins. And that's how we even

24:25name the app, the budgeting app every dollar. Okay. So top eight pitfalls to avoid when you're doing your budget. Make sure you give every dollar a job. Now this is not your checking account balance. This is your budget. And so there's no can be no money left over. If it's left over, you need to have a category that's called left over money. So at least then it's got a name. But it should be going to miscellaneous or fun or debt reduction or to something, right? So no money left over. Now money left over your checking account is good. You need to leave a little slush in there. But but your zero, your budget should go to zero every month. The second one is then you guess at it. You do a budget and you don't follow it. You just go, I kind of thought I know you got to go, like this is how much we offer groceries and we're not buying more groceries than this. We run out of groceries after this day. And so period. Then the other one was we ignore the four walls. We don't take care of the important stuff first. The important stuff is groceries and utilities and housing and utilities and transportation. Another one is you let debt steal your momentum.

25:31Letting more debt in or be refusing to sell something that's got a bunch of debt on it. It's got you stuck and so you can't get them. You can't get the math to spin and start to you can't get any margin to start to make some some process. You need a miscellaneous category. Everyone needs a miscellaneous category. You need a his and her spending category that's small but it's unaccounted for it's just money you can blow money you can get rid of. You need to be budgeting and this is the biggest one with your spouse. So the two of you sit down even if it's for 15 minutes even if it's for two hours with the kids in bed. We go over the budget we both agree to the budget and then we freaking stick to the budget. This is our contract. This is an agreement with each other. We pinky swear and spit shake we're doing this when you budget with your spouse you are agreeing on your fears you're agreeing on your values you're agreeing on your dreams and when you agree on that much stuff you're going to have a level of unity in your relationship you have

26:33no other way. Another thing is if you make a mistake and have a bad month people quit don't quit get back on the horse go ride it again. I have a buddy who talks about that in nutrition space about you're on a diet and you have one bad day and then you're just like I blew it. He said that's like walking outside in the morning heading to work and you see you have a flat tire and you pull up a knife and deflate all the other tires too. He's like fix that tire and get on to work and when he said it like that I was like oh yeah it's dumb okay so I'd pizza I'm gonna get back on the morning. Yeah just get back with it and so you messed up you're human oh no and here's the thing you have to adjust for your regular expenses when you first do your budget you suck at this you've never done it before it's not going to be right your first 30 days you're probably going to have some emergency budget committee meetings and adjust and raise one category and lower some other ones by the same amount because it still got to equal zero and it takes about 90 days about three budget cycles to quit fighting about it to get on the same page about it and to actually

27:39get your numbers right because you we think we're doing one thing with food and we're actually spending twice that we think we're doing one thing with whatever and we didn't realize oh we forgot at children's activities like well let me just help you children have activities or a doctor bill that seven months old just comes out of the blue and you got it like it just shows up and who knew yeah I forgot about it forgot I went yeah that's all there so these are the this are the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting and straight out of the ask Ramsey tool almost like we said it because we did can I tell you something um this is a very personal private experiment I've been doing in equals one and I gotta tell you um you and I haven't we haven't hung out in a while and then I'll just tell you right here on the air oh my wife and I marched first canceled Amazon Prime and the second thing is I said for the month of March um and the month of April I'm gonna

28:40just gonna use I'm gonna go old school and just use cash and at every transaction every transaction wow in fact today was the first thing I've spent with a card to get yeah um well I didn't I was like oh I forgot cash like I'm I'm still practicing is my first first one that I didn't keep up mind of the bargain I made to myself I gotta tell you two things one the ability to just click it and buy it versus I'm gonna plan and go to the store has so insanely reduced the number of things I buy I never in a million years would have would have felt that the second thing is um I just thought like oh I need those socks or I need that thing or I need those light bulbs whatever I'm gonna click click click click and they just mail them to my house when I have to get out and go to the store and plan I just buy less like we don't need that right now or you forget it this or the socks I got yeah the second thing is you taught this for years as I'm just putting over cash it is painful yep it sticks in a way that just waving my phone over the little beepety beep

29:47thing it is causing me to rethink all the stuff I buy what gas cost in a very visceral way and it's it's it's it's just it's a reminder at how the credit card companies the tech companies in an effort to make everything comfortable and quote unquote reduce friction have taken away our our internal like metric system for this hurts do you really need this do you want this and man I do this I'm I'm with you on the show and I've been shocked at how my spinning habits frictionless habits have have taken over well in your your psychology brain is probably in overdue dude it's good your melting down analyzing all this well I'm I'm trying to connect what I'm feeling versus what I'm doing and man that bridge is I need a lot less stuff and man using cash the other thing is you cannot replace the weird looks you get when you pay cash for things I I did have one exchange where I said they're like well they're looking around at me like I was

30:48handing them a snake and I said hey I that's all I got so if you don't take like money I'm gonna have to and they're like no no you you can you can do it we just gotta I don't know how to open the drawer I mean it was the whole thing I felt like I rode up to like a store on a horse you're dead you've worked too hard to get control of your money just to let strangers control your data think about it just about every time you sign up for a newsletter grab a coupon code or start a free trial your personal info like your name email address phone number and more gets scooped up and sold by data brokers here's the deal freedom isn't only being debt free

31:50it's also being free from companies cashing in on your data and that's where delete me comes in delete me's privacy experts find your personal info on these shady data broker sites they get it deleted and they keep it gone it's like having a digital cleanup crew that scrubs your online life so you get way fewer of those spam calls creepy texts and scam emails that make you wonder how they even found you guys the less noise in your digital life the more time you have for what actually matters because when you protect your privacy you protect your peace and your freedom so go to joindelete me dot com slash Ramsey to get 20% off their annual plans and take back control that's joindelete me dot com slash Ramsey Zach is in North Carolina hi Zach how are you

32:55hey doing wonderful appreciate your call big fan sure how can we help yeah okay that's for better duo I was hoping you can help resolve a disagreement between me and my wife yes I love these we're probably gonna be right sure you're she would like to move back to where we're from where more family and friends for we've got a 18 month old baby girl and she'd like some more help and where's that first home Charlotte and you're in Wilmington how far how far's Wilmington from Charlotte about three three and a half not bad okay all right versus I'm built a let's say fairly successful real estate career of the past decade here and just trying to resolve that issue and trying to try to figure it out just starting over to different markets terrifying and just doesn't sound feasible to me and trying to find a minute maybe a middle ground or just get walked through it if you will well what a middle ground look like

33:58that's a great question I don't hear I don't hear a middle ground here so I'd love to hear if you've got one well I guess I'm looking for like how old are you guys 33 yeah yeah 33 and you've been you've been in this market for 10 years yes or 13 you know I mean has she been there 10 years six we've been here how long y'all been married six we're both from oh yes yes sir okay all right so the baby is the is the thing that caused the change because there was probably no no big deal before that well Mike Mike I would bet the opposite has this been brewing for a while we don't have any friends I'm kind of all alone while you're out running deals and then the baby just brought that all to the surface yeah you pretty much hit the nail man okay all right because that's still like there is the draw I want to be around family I want I want all my all the family's chickens you know in the same Bruce like that that's

35:00common I totally get that but just listening to you talk about your career like that makes me think she is rapidly feeling like she is living a life that she doesn't like living yeah you all have created a life that's mostly about you and she doesn't like what y'all have created together yes yeah we've got we got my folks here but that's not enough and she didn't have the village that she needs so okay just having a hard time with that okay so is the is the fear all all market based that you have this job it's comfortable you know how it all works and the thought of starting over again at 33 which by the way you're not going to be starting over but it feels that way and I get that that is that what makes you nervous or do you also not want to live there you don't want to be around her family you don't want to be around her old friends is that part of it too or not really well a little bit of a combo not that I don't want to be around them but I just I don't know it's just been taken so long to get where we're at now

36:02and just starting over just extremely overwhelming yeah I would ace it down with a good marriage counselor and keep talking about this for a while to keep yourselves from getting too entrenched and then I would probably throw out the challenge of two things and this is just oh god talking and then I'll let the real psychologist over your answer the question but number one going back you can't ever go back home I drove through my neighborhood that I grew up in the other day it's not the neighborhood I grew up in yeah it just is the neighborhood I grew up in but it's not the neighborhood I grew up in you know what I'm saying things have changed and her old friends have changed and the comfort she thinks she's going to get from being near her mother is not as much as she thinks it is and so she's painted this romantic picture of how she's going to step back into all of this connection that she used to have and none of those people are the same and

37:05most of them aren't still there and some of them you don't even want to be connected to and so it's a false picture to a large degree this romance of this is going to be you know it's all it's all unicorns and skittles over there is bull crap okay that's my opinion you just can't go back and so I mean I visit my old whatever school church whatever it just I walk in there and I'm going well what are we doing here back then it will and it's a common a common refrain that you're not saying people is wherever you go y'all are going to go with you exactly and so if you all have built a life where she thinks she worked too much she feels alone inside her own house she'll sit by each other on the couch and you're scrolling on your phone checking deals and she's trying to connect with you but she's on her phone that that code doesn't matter that same dynamics can end up yeah there the second thing I would propose is with the help of a therapist that's keeping

38:07you guys nimble and flexible and talking and understanding each other's needs as you're going into this is I would go on a hardcore six-month experiment to build community plug into a church invite people to your house invite neighbors to your house invite church people to your house invite work people to your house have dinners develop some friendships you're not friends with anybody because you've not been friends to anybody and no one initiates in this stupid digital culture anymore and if you all would initiate you're probably going to have more friends in six months than you would ever have in any other location but you need to work at the friendship and community building thing because you've spent zero calories on it so far both of you John agree yeah and the layer underneath that one is I think there's some real power in sitting across the table from your wife and saying if this is true don't say if it's not true but over the last six years

39:13the market's been up and down six years ago you were living high right and then the last four years it's been you been grinding it um I've put this ahead of you and I want to build and I literally essentially I want to build a new marriage what does it look like for me to walk in the door and put my phone down and be present with you the deal wait what does it look what how can I love you better and by the way I don't want to make this all one sided their stuff about her that you miss and you're able to say here's what I here's ways you can love me right now but I want you to go first use the word I I haven't shown up I have made my life about business I've been really proud about this and you've been telling me for two years three years four years I'm lonely can we go hang out we put your phone down and I haven't done those things that changes today yeah have you protected her from your mother I have I think a lot of it has to do with we're in it we're in a second very vacation um primarily home market we're not in Wilmington and um

40:16probably of course city and she's got her sister and her sister who the same age is is our daughter and and her best friend in 20 years is there and just harder to make friends here than it is there nothing that has a lot to do with it plus lack of sleep and blah blah blah just yeah and I think you get into all of that and but I really would explore some new attempts at building the life there before I left there and then if you can't and you decide based on that the only place we can build the life we both want is I'll I will make the sacrifice to rebuild my market in another place and here's what that's going to cost is it's gonna be a we're gonna have a cut an income like we're gonna plan for this we're not just gonna be emotional and reactive about it we're gonna plan for it so it's not gonna be tomorrow but uh Dave I I always want to tell especially young hustlers like this guy that's just out there grinding the proof of your future success is often you're like past you shown yourself you can get in there and grind and build it you can and so to say I won't be able to it's not gonna have I don't think that's true terrifying

41:21it doesn't feel like he needs he doesn't feel like he has to yeah if if she just had friends or her sister or her cousins or her nieces and all that kind of stuff but um I I love the idea of y'all to sitting on the same side of the table and putting the problem on the other side of the table and making sure like Dave said y'all don't come a seam at the part come a part of the seams at each other it's you versus me one of us is gonna win this it is how do we build the life we want and that includes how do you want this house to feel where's this gonna be what's it gonna look like financially um who do we want running around our house so we did we did this John okay 45 years ago what's that when I got married my wife came three hours from her family huh yeah moved into a city where she knew no one we did this yeah exactly what we did yeah we did exactly what I said just then yeah it's exactly what we did and she's never one time said she wanted to go back home but we built community

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43:45welcome back to the ramsie show in the fair winds credit union studio i'm Dave ramsie your host john deloney dr john deloney ramsie personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today Ruth is in Nashville hi Ruth what's up hi um so i'm calling because my husband and i built a multi-generational house with his parents um now only less than about a year and a half later my mother-in-law has moved out and will soon stop helping with the mortgage payment so we will either have to loot have to sell the house with very little equity in it or we will lose the house um she says she wants part of the sale of the house um but how can i move forward without feeling as much hurt or animosity towards my mother-in-law um could i venture a guess that before any of this was done or signed up for you had a bad feeling about it yes so you're really mad at yourself

44:49there's a good part of it that i am mad at myself yeah yeah what happened um so my husband and i came up um to my in-laws with the idea to build a multi-generational house um back in probably late 23 early 2024 um his dad had had a stroke back in 2008 and was in poor health so we were talking and we talked about how important it was for him to be with his dad when the time came when time came um and so we bought up this idea with them and we were very clear we had a budget of $1,500 for our half of the mortgage so whatever we chose has to fall within that um it ended up life with building ballooning a bit and we ended up with a thirty six hundred dollar payment um rounding up um so they said that they would cover

45:51you know whatever we could not cover with the 1500 um we moved in in September of 24 and by last June so 25 my father-in-law passed away um and it was there as hurt as painful as it was to be there it was also i would never take that to my back it was kind of what you signed up for yeah that's good that part's good yeah exactly um so did you put equity into the house me and my husband put about um a hundred maybe a little over a hundred thousand into the house it won't bring enough for you to get your hundred out um we may just get our hundred so we put in a hundred his parents put in a hundred but it was like a six hundred and sixty thousand so would there be enough to get her hundred and your hundred out probably not both of our hundred she has yeah um we're hoping to get close but um she has since started dating a guy um in mid july

46:54and we've been with him in august um and she was she first that she would cover the normal part of the mortgage she wasn't um taking that away from the picture and then January she said no I have to go 50-50 which i was a little annoyed but i mean i dealt with it because it was fair and then just last month she said no i'm not paying half um i will only be i will only be paying 1500 and June i will not be contributing to the house um so um but i assume there's no written there's no written agreement right no okay just her text messages saying this is what it's happening so the reality is the house is gone yeah so sell it immediately and uh deduct what she she promised to pay everything above 1500 originally and whatever she doesn't keep her promise on to duck that from her half of the proceeds okay to make the deal fair to make

48:01her she's going to honor her word i'm just taking it out of her hide and um um but there's so much to be disappointed in with this lady but uh none of it is your fault and none of it is anything you can do about uh but and and really i would be so disappointed with her in all things except the house there's just so much that she's that there's this wrong about what everything is just sad it is so but and then and here let's let's walk away let's walk back then the house is gone you have roughly your hundred in your hand and you go start the next chapter of your life and then the way i would quantify that and i may be over compartmentalizing so that my psychologist over here may correct me but um the way i would do that is i say okay whatever money i lost whatever tears i have shed over the stupidity of this deal was worth it for that precious six or eight months and to be there when pop passed yeah and that was the cost of that that's what it cost

49:08me for to have that i i traded this for that and then leave it there and walk away emotionally put it in the rearview mirror and then you've got her to deal with and her misbehavior which is just a separate issue but i i you know she's just out of control and and is grieving in a weird way and on a dysfunctional way and well she's met somebody and he's he's whispered in her ear because he wants that money in his pocket not nails yeah um okay Ruth can i use your situation your original question as like a miniature teaching moment here because you asked a really powerful question and i think this question is drowning us as a culture how can i do these hard things that i got to do that were not we agreed upon and not feel sad resentful all these other feelings mm-hmm all feelings are they're just they're they're digital billboards as you're driving down the

50:10highway of life they're giving you information and if you think of them that way they they are powerful and they're important data but their job is not to tell you the truth it's to keep you safe on this road you're driving on called life and if you were driving down i65 we're all here in Nashville if you're driving down this main artery highway that goes through our town or city and you said i want to avoid all signage right that would be a nightmarish ride you would never get where you're actually want to go and so what i want to tell you is and everybody listening and i'm this is the pot talking to the kettle i'm a big emotional big feeling guy too is i i i want us to all collectively stop trying to build lives where we try to work around feelings let's go right through the stinkin middle of them yeah if you're going through hell keep driving right yeah so i'm gonna feel i'm gonna feel sad i'm gonna feel frustrated i'm gonna feel xyz this is what maturity is this is what emotional regulation is if you want to be a nerd

51:12it is cannot feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling and it does it mean that your feelings are wrong but i don't judge feelings anymore have all the ones you want what i'm gonna look at is what's the thing i did next after that feeling and so be heartbroken be sad be pissed off be all those things and still sell the house still sell the house and still execute on the proper way to handle the money at the transaction at the sale of the house and all of that still choose to i i i'm gonna drop a contract with this woman as we sell this house or whatever still next time i have a bad feeling about a deal i'm gonna listen to it i'm gonna listen to my bad when the my dad you say when the bell rings the bell's ringing for it listen to the bell it's ringing that's a great that's a great line yeah listen to it listen to it listen at that does it mean it's right but i'm gonna at least listen to it and talk to it and win and doubt don't

52:31hey what's up guys it's jade listen my husband and i drive used vehicles and we really do plan on keeping those running for a long time so we trust christian brothers automotive to take care of them their team is honest their shops are super clean and what i love is they don't try to upsell us on things that we don't need i personally feel really confident walking into christian brothers because i know that no one's gonna try to take advantage of me or scare me into unneeded repairs christian brothers gets it so schedule a service today at cbac.com slash ramsey and get 10% off your visit that's up to a $250 value see stores for details Thomas is in Dallas hi Thomas how are you good how you doing Dave better than i deserve what's up hey so i'm basically a sub ground tractor working for a company i have to be doing a lot of

53:37driving need a personal vehicle right now my boss is lending me one of his i currently have a broken down truck that needs a needs an engine probably around a $5,000 fix if i get that fixed my boss will give me the equivalent of a 20 to 33% raise cross the board on my dog the question is whether or not to take out a loan to do that and then since right now the income that i'm getting fixed pretty good so i can literally what are you doing right what's that what do you do for living i'm a clean clean swimming pools okay all right and so a $5,000 or $6,000 truck will get the job done as long as it runs and gets you there right well so i currently have a vehicle that is broken down it needs an engine i know you told me that i don't want to fix it it's crap i'd rather just buy one that's already running okay so what can you sell that piece of crap for that salvage a thousand bucks 1500 not quite sure i haven't priced that yet yeah okay what what kind of what kind of your

54:44model and what truck is that that's sitting with no engine 2001 or maybe a 2003 Ford F-150 okay yeah so you can buy that car with an engine running for five or six grand yeah okay and what what are you making how much do you make before he gives you this 20 or 30% raise uh net is 33.5 grosses 30 after my 1099 taxes 33.5 33,500 dollars yes okay i make it about yeah yeah okay and so a 20% raise is $7,000 that sound right yeah 20% to 33 okay and so um yeah the um so you break even after one year

55:46okay if you spend seven thousand dollars to get a truck and he pays you 20% how long have you been working for this guy well so he's the one that trained my dad i've been working for my dad for ever since i'm 20 i'm 28 i've been working for my dad often i've been 15 i i recently had a life destruction event and it'd been literally have started working last week back in this job that i had like what's a life destruction event i i had a mental health crisis during the mental health crisis there was there was there was family violence happening between me and my wife i got put in prison for that um even though in texas there's supposed to be provisions for preventing for helping people with mental health and not just put it in prison but that didn't happen with me so how long were you how long were you away uh two years and a month and then i got a violation and was back in for another five months so back out a week now so

56:52okay no yeah i don't borrow money please you do not need to borrow any money you're you're you're coming off of a highly unstable situation and you haven't stabilized yet at least we don't know that we hope you have and you hope you have okay if you told me this was all three years ago it might be a different discussion it wouldn't be a discussion about borrowing money it would be a different picture but instead we're three minutes into this not three years into this so you need to sustain a life with a very little stress and adding debt to this is not the thing so thank you boss for the new job i'm sorry i'm a minute out of prison and i don't need to be borrowing money right now i'll have to drive your truck for a while longer um until i can save up and pay cash for something how long do you can save up six grand um that's kind of that's kind of the issue the all my money basically kind of breaking even in my every dollar zero budget where's it going

57:59one second most biggest expense is three hundred dollars in gas and so spending about 105 and purchasing about 105 gallons a month come on vote please cool how much is your rent that's it mean my wife are currently separated she has a five hundred dollar rent i have a two hundred fifty dollar rent you have to pay the five hundred dollar rent yes why currently because we have we have two kids she's basically stay at home her family sometimes helps but if i'm paying this stuff she doesn't ask for the money um and currently because of the family violence there's a no contact order so i cannot coordinate anything with her so i'm kind of defaulting to doing everything basically yeah well um i'm gonna help you don't have to do everything you need to make sure the kids have something to eat but she also is gonna have to make a life without you and so she and and that means she has to develop a way to live sustainably without you feeding her

59:05okay so um you know right now we've got to get you up and stable so your two fifty rent um even five hundred going out for her still not used up all your money so you've just started this is real fresh Thomas please don't go borrow money to buy a truck to work for a guy that you've been working for for ten minutes even though you've known him a hundred years this whole thing everything in your life has been quick and sudden and fast and pulses and i want you to slow down and just be boring for a while let's know excitement you've had enough excitement to let you the rest of your life just be boring Thomas can i can i paint you a picture brother all right the last two plus two and a half years somebody told you when to get up when to eat when uh you could go outside what you were gonna eat right yep when you borrow money

1:00:10that bank tells you i don't care how you feel you're going to work tomorrow because i want my money you already took my truck oh you got you lost that job i don't really care you're doing this because right and so what i don't want you to is walk out of prison and then walk right pick in voluntarily and that's what borrowing money does stay free yeah that's good that's good stay free hang on i'll send you a copy of the total money makeover and we'll help you as you rebuild your life and steady steady and slow christian send him building an on anxious life too i want to give him some tools for walking through the ups and downs that are going to be the next five ten fifteen years of his life as he stead steadies himself and builds a new version of himself from the inside out we'll send them both of those yeah very good that's good i like that mic's into Troy hey mic how are you doing good i think i need a little bit of help okay how can we help so i got my dream job in September 2023 working for a friend's company everything was going swimmingly up till about

1:01:12November 2024 where i had to leave this company and pick up work with a competitor while i was working for him i was working to get myself out of university that education that get my feet underneath me and he is independent as possible and and save up money and everything else um unfortunately i had a lawsuit that i had to file against that employer and it took everything the old friend or the second one uh old friend uh old friend why you only work for him for a year well i was working for him on and off for about nine years kind of but the dream was the dream lasted a whole year what was the lawsuit for um he did not pay an invoice that i billed him for the work that i performed for him after you left yes why did you do work for him after you left if you go sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry before before i was hired on bull time how big was the invoice

1:02:20eight thousand dollars okay i'm sorry so how how much were you making working for this guy sixty five thousand dollars a year okay so have you been able to replace that income uh i was working for another company a competitor of his but they were only paying half of it now so i think what i'm gonna concentrate on is not being angry at him and all this quote dream job stuff that never was really a dream and instead be working on the future they get at the grief and get to get get get after something moving forward yeah go forward forward when you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you a lot of so-called debt relief

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1:04:42when it comes to your money you'll feel like a rat in a wheel run run run run run run get nowhere have a heart attack and i that's my life no that's awful don't do that that's gross no no no if you're tired of working hard and having nothing to show for it that's normal but normals broke you don't want to be normal we want to be weird you don't have to live that way our every dollar budgeting apple help you find extra money every month on a personalized plan to get out of debt become wealthy and outrageously generous in just fifteen minutes you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin you gonna feel like you got to raise works every time boys and girls don't be normal live like no one else start your every dollar app in the app store or google play portland or again Leslie is calling hi Leslie how are you hi good how are you better than i deserve what's up thank you for teaching my call first off um so my husband and i have three kids

1:05:43and our oldest she's 16 we share her with um his first wife um and she's 16 and um we want to know our question is should we help pay for her driving school and who's paying who's paying for her insurance mom okay so you paying for driving school gives mama discount yes why's mom not paying for so that's kind of where we're at and we we also want some advice on how to navigate that conversation um how to navigate the x yeah no we're not that smart yeah i didn't i didn't have that class in grad school that's a tough one her mom did kind of the shady thing um last week she um had the our daughter text my husband say can we talk and then when they finally got to talk she said um that they were waiting on us to start driving school but we are going through our own

1:06:47we just started that every dollar app like we're trying to get debt free we pay her child support and like i i just don't want to navigate this because we've paid for her braces and we were supposed to go half on that she never want called and made a payment to the dental office even though okay let me jump in on this Leslie okay let me jump in yes yes i want you to take like imagine you're sitting at your kitchen table and you have a shoe box on the table yeah inside that shoe box is the people in your life that get a vote okay take her out of that box because you're still trying to like she's doing these things and you're spending a ton of energy trying to get inside her head and why did she do this and i bet it's because of this and then you're making up a bunch of stories about why she did or didn't and your stories are probably right but they aren't affecting her one bit so you're drinking the person in the x-wife

1:07:50hoping the x-wife is is feeling pain and you're the one getting sick yeah and so yeah let's just focus on you and the husband makes it the same thing my x-wife does not get a vote she does not get a vote in our house okay now what our house but you and your husband sit down and decide to do for his daughter that he loves regardless if she's married to a woman who's a test pilot for a room factory okay regardless of that all right so that that's a given okay that's a that's a constant in the equation so we just set that aside and we go okay there's the kid what do we want to do for the kid in one case she said i'm gonna do braces she's supposed to pay half but she probably won't because she never does but we're gonna pay for him anyway and that's what you did so just let that go you made that decision okay you made that decision you and your husband made that decision again any energy you give x-wife is energy you're taking away from from your home from your marriage from your relationship with your kids don't give her that yeah that's what's done so then as far as the driving school goes you guys look at it and go how much is it by the way

1:08:55the three hundred bucks it's a twelve hundred oh jeez yeah we pay child support we pay her two seventy five doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter none of that matter so that's all set we don't have to rehash all the things we do and we pay half the braces and you didn't know that matters all it matters is do we want to do this that's all that matters and we can decide that in context of all these other things but the two of you just sit down look at that do we want to do this you don't that's your vote yeah i don't it's your vote and your husband i don't know what's he you know you're and he says no to okay then because the the the the test pilot for a broom factory's teaching or sixteen year old to be a travel agent for guilt trips daddy i can't get a driver's license because you won't help bo crap you can get like a job and stuff kid or you can talk to your mother who could pay for it there's an idea and so now we're not able to do that right now i'm sorry but i but i would tell the kid it's it we have reasons for you we don't think this school is

1:10:01necessary you're a great driver already we've been driving with you for a year with your learners permit we like or we think you need to have some skin in the game somebody else is paying your insurance somebody else is buying you a car somebody else is paying your gas we think you should own this one but but have the reason be you and your husband looked at this young sixteen-year-old girl in front of you and said we made this decision for you and here's why if the x-wife was completely out of the picture and she lived in your house a hundred percent of the time and it was your actual kid yeah it needs to be the same decision that's it okay okay otherwise you're going to penalizing this kid trying to get back at x you're going to become the person that you're frustrated with right now yeah that's exactly right so yeah i think you and your husband just sit down and say do we want to do this and if the answer is no then how can we help we can coach you we can share you on but you know your mom's paying for the insurance and she's the one that's actually going to get the break on the insurance because if you go to driving school you get

1:11:03less insurance for a sixteen-year-old so it cuts insurance premium and so it didn't go cut it about twelve hundred bucks cut cut well here's what's funny i'm sitting here in real time three hundred bucks is what i paid when i was sixteen oh well so that that were dinosaur from the right exactly i know i'd just pull a rope to start the car i drove around and and i just realized my wife when we paid we paid for my son he turned sixteen soon to go to driving school i the number in my head i was like of course yeah i thought a three hundred bucks i didn't know it's twelve hundred dollars i go we did as you just said now you got to look up she would you put i gotta go see what i just paid for this thing yeah it sounds like it's being taught by a formula one driver but that just may be what the cost of that no that's the difference of three hundred back then and twelve hundred now yeah that's how that was blasted inflation yeah that's it so yeah i but the thing is john the the the teaching is everyone you have to stop in the middle of these things and go instead of replaying these all of these scenes over and over and over in your

1:12:06head about the braces and everything else and just go and and she tell you know we didn't hear from her and then she texted us and she got the kid to text us and all that really doesn't matter none of that really matters because the kid doesn't even get a vote it's me and my wife we decide and we decide that for our kids when they live at our house you know i mean matter of fact they don't live at our house now and they still don't get a vote yeah and the grandkids don't get a vote they get a wish sure they're gonna have a wish they can have an opinion that's different than a vote that's right pop it i've would you i might but i have to think about it and and i think a group a sign of great like sturdy parenting is there's seasons when your kids don't like you that means you're doing it right if you're if you're parenting so that your kids always like you you're gonna find yourself in some real dangerous territory and worse your kids gonna find themselves in some dangerous messes like part of parenting is saying here's why we're doing this and it's okay i'm strong enough to withhold your dislike from here right now it's part of it and in addition to that if they're teenagers your job is to also embarrass them with all of your yeah with all possible

1:13:10energy embarrass them exactly find some way to give them a ridiculous hug and a kiss at the in front of all their friends on behalf of mental health practitioners across this great country embarrass your kids a lot because we need your future business yeah it's good hahaha my i damn i don't know what to do my daughter is in fourth grade i can embarrass her by just smiling my son is seemingly impervious to embarrassment he has this this i wish i could bottle it up and and sell it because i would be richer than these ai guys it's amazing i make a joke and he's just like hope that fell good dead And I'm the one like, that was, he hit the ball back across the net at the dinner table. I made a crash joke, but it was a good one. And you don't know shame until your 15-year-old looks at you without a smile and goes, Dad, when are you going to grow up? That was like, oh man, well played, son, well played. And he was right, too. That was the worst part.

1:14:41Ramsey show, question of the day, is brought to you by Why ReFi, Defaulted Private Student Loans. Don't define you, but dealing with them does. Why ReFi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that you can afford, so you can take control of your money and get back to working the baby steps. Go to yrefi.com slash ramsey, that's the letter y-r-e-f-y.com slash ramsey might not be in all states. All right, this is an awesome question, Dave. Today's question comes from Megan in New Jersey. Megan writes, I was recently in a car accident and my vehicle was total. My emergency fund paid for my hospital bill and my parents lent me five grand so I could buy a reliable used car. Most of my remaining debts are smaller than their loan to me, but I hate owing them money. They've said to pay them back, quote-unquote, whenever I can, but I feel terrible whenever I talk to them. I have $25,000 left in student loans and another $5,000 on credit cards. Would it be okay to just pay them first and then resume my debt snowball?

1:15:44I like that question because in my guts, it's out of order from how we teach it, but own my debt money feels worse than own the IRS. You know what I mean? He can't garnish my wages, but man, I get that feeling she has. Yeah, I understand. That's an honorable person too. No kidding. That's good. And we list our debts smallest to largest payment, minimum payments on everything, but the little one and attack the little one first. So that would, you know, I am guessing you said credit cards and $5,000, so I'm guessing there's lots of little ones, or a few little ones that total up to $5,000, so you would knock those out first and then you would knock this out. The good news is that $10,000 from now, you're done except for student loans. And so that's a really, really aggressive part-time job for just a few months. Just to like, like, and channel that. Yeah, just channel all of that. That discomfort, that discomfort right at those credit cards. First, cut them up and then list them and get yourself on a super tight budget,

1:16:45like beans and rice, rice and beans. And, you know, and then add income. And look around what can I sell? What can I sell? Here's another thing I want to throw out that's not asked here, but it's a $5,000 car, so the answer might be that she didn't have insurance on it. But I want to remind all of you that when you get a car accident and your car is totaled and you have insurance that pays the car, pays for the car, that is not a reason to upgrade. Replace it and go further into that. So I'm guessing, though, that maybe she did not have collusion on a $5,000 car. So when you got total, it was just lost it. Sure. It's lost the money. And I want to add something else that's not in here. And this is coming from a parent whose my son's about turn 16. Like, there's a chance this is meat, right? I hope not, but it can feel like you're helping bail out your kid when you loan him five grand. I would much rather her parents give her five grand

1:17:46than create this tension in there. If they feel like they want to help, they want to support their kid or whatever, I would much rather that be a gift. And I don't, obviously, who knows what happened here and there's so many different things. But, yeah. So, but dad participates in making this an awkward relationship, too. Yeah. I'll just jump in on that side of this equation and say, from our perspective here, from almost 40 years of doing this, helping people with their money and clean up money messes that they have made, I'll make a bold statement. Parents should never under any circumstances loan their children money. I second that, period. As a matter of fact, you should not loan any relatives money under any circumstances, period. If you have the money to help them and you want them to have the money, give it to them. If you're not willing to give it to them, shut up.

1:18:46But I want to be paid back after I helped you with your misfortune. And I'm going to feel good about me when you pay me back after I helped you with your misfortune. That's pass-ackwards people. So, no. You know, if you want to help them, help them. If you don't want to help them, don't help them. But don't make them owe you money because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master. And the borrower is slave to the lender. The interest payment on that is your relationship. Oh, that's the interest. That's the interest. Please not just in the belt at a minimum. Yeah. Wow. James is in Lynchburg, Virginia. Hi, James. What's up? How you doing, gentlemen? Great. How can we help? I have an interesting dynamic going on. So, we own a small rental home that we are close to having paid off. And it's probably worth about 175 at the current market. We own about 15,000 left on it

1:19:48on our current home and land that the land that the current home that we live in is on is we own 15,000 left on that. And we cash world and self built the home itself. So, we don't earn anything on the house. So, 12, 15 months or so will be done paying on both of these things. Now, I put all eggs in that basket for the last 10 years. How old are you? All cash we had went into that so with the hope that in the plan that how old are you at? 10 years. I am 40 or almost. Okay. All right. So, you know, with that we wouldn't have to worry about paying for our home ever again. Because we've been doing this for a long enough. I wouldn't have done that. Over there. How can we help? Yeah. No doubt. So, I have no appreciable retirement savings. Obviously, if we're putting all those eggs in that basket. Yeah, which is why I wouldn't have done it. Okay.

1:20:48Right. I understand. Obviously, that's some level of stressful for me. Mm-hmm. And, you know, here soon enough, there'll be, you know, wide open mental income that will come in associated with that. We'll have, you know, freedom from the mortgage and things like that. What does the house rent for? Currently, it's at a thousand. I have a, it's, it's value to more. But I have a, I have a widow in there. And I, I can't charge her anymore than we currently are. So. Okay. So you've got an asset that's not maximized. Okay. That's fair. Yes, correct. Yep. All right. Correct. And, you know, I'm looking, I'm just struggling around this. And my wife and I have been kicking it around. Me mostly, me kicking it. Mostly, mostly, mostly her telling me not to do it. So, you know, of selling it and investing that money then into some form of retirement savings. And I wanted some feedback on that instead. Well, not counting the arrangement,

1:21:52which I endorse you helping a widow, endorse anyone helping a widow. That's biblical. And you're making, you know, about seven percent on your money, because 175,000 you're making 12,000 minus expenses. So you're probably making probably five percent on your money on this rental house, plus it's going up in value. It's not a bad investment. And someday you will be able to get full rent out of it whenever she's gone, okay? No. Or whenever that arrangement stops for whatever reason. Sure. What keeps you from beginning your retirement investing now, fairly aggressively, since you don't have any payments? Well, I do have payments on the property that we built on. How much do you owe on it? 15,000. I know, but you're going to be done in just a few months. I'm both of them you told me, right? Yes. That's what I was calculating. So, I'm talking about a few months from now, you're 100 percent dead free. What's your household income? About an 85 to 90.

1:22:53Okay. So, start saving 20 percent of your income and a good retirement or 25 percent of your income and a good retirement. You don't even have a stinking house payment. Fill up your 401k, fill up some Roth IRAs and get with a good Smart Vester Pro at Ramsey Solutions. And that account alone will be millions of dollars when you're 65, 25 years from now. Okay. And keep the houses. Okay. You don't have to give up the house to have a retirement plan. You've got plenty of time and you have a good income and you have no debt. But make space in the middle of your chest for this feeling that's going to come. I thought that if I had a house outright and I had a rental house outright, then me and my wife could just do whatever we wanted with our money. Nope. And you have a debt to pay to future you. Of course. Right. And so, you're still going to have to watch your income. You're still going to be put in a sizable chunk away. It's not going to go to a house payment, but it is going to go to future you. Right. And so, expect to feel like,

1:23:53oh, man, I thought we were going to be free of all this budgeting. No, I mean, we still got to stay tight on it because we're going to get 85 or 90 years old one day. Yeah. As the same intensity you were using, or maybe not quite as much, to clear up these two mortgages, we're just going to turn most of that cash flow and some of that intensity into a retirement planning system into 401Ks and Roth IRAs with your Smart Vestor Pro, and promise you do, that's going to be millions of dollars. That one thing alone. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Deloney, bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

1:24:53Clay is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Clay, how are you? Hi, Dave. Good. How about you guys? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yeah, so I'm just kind of really overwhelmed. I don't really know how to attack my debt. A majority of my incomes going to rent and the car. And I need both of those things. I need a place to live, and I need a car to drive to work. So, yeah, I just need help getting out of here. Gotcha. What do you make? I make about 2200 a month. Okay, I think we found the problem. What do you do? Yeah. So I currently work in construction. How old are you? 33. And how much do you owe on your car? It's a little under 20,000.

1:25:54Okay. And how much is your rent? I did make, sorry, I did make a little bit more, but a portion of my wages are going to some tax debt and student debt. Yeah, okay. And how much is your rent? We're 750. Okay. Currently also dealing with a past issue that's taking up some more of the income. A past issue. Yeah, that's why you rent, brother. You're landlord to be taking care of the past issue. Yeah, it's on me. But yeah. It's like, there's not an easy way to say this. You got to make a lot more money. Okay. What do you do on a construction site?

1:26:54So I work in an office, I can design office. And yeah, we provide products. But I mean, are you in some sort of apprenticeship that this is all going to double and triple and quadruple in two years, four years, or is this kind of it for you? Um, this kind of it. Uh, before that, I worked in behavioral health as, uh, like a tech. Um, just kind of ran out of options there and look for, you know, to field and construction was kind of up and. Good opportunity there. But the opportunity construction is, are you a builder? Or are you a craftsman? Right. But you're the guy servicing those guys, right? Correct. Yeah. I get the project from the door. Yeah. So, um, I mean, there's several things going on, but, um, one of them is that you just have an income problem. For sure. And there's two ways to fix that. Uh, one is the extra part time job in the meantime.

1:27:56While you're developing a career track where you go instead of making $30,000 a year, you go try to find a way to make 90. And that's very doable in today's world. And it may take you a few, it may take you a hot minute. You may have to go take some classes. You may have to do, you don't have to get a four year degree, but you may have to learn some things you don't know now. But you're going to set your sights differently than just, uh, whatever the next to J-O-B is because you're starving to death. That's the thing one. Thing two is, if you have a low income, it does not give you a pass on math. And how in the world someone loans you $20,000 on a car that wasn't smoking crack, I don't know. You don't make enough to have a $20,000 car at that. No wonder. Yeah. You're dying. Yeah. Yeah. How much could you give for that car if you sold it today?

1:28:57Um, so I did a quick, like, estimate on, um, Carvana and they offered nine out of them. Yeah, but they do. Look up Kelly Bluebook, what the private party sale value is. Yeah, and that's probably more like 16. Yeah. Okay. And then dig up the difference. And let's get the car sold. Yes, you need a car to get to work. No, you don't need a $20,000 car to get to work. You just need a, you need a beater, a hoop dee that runs and gets you over to work. Because you're not driving to a $200,000 your job. You're driving to a $25,000 or $30,000 your job. And you're driving a $20,000 car over there. That doesn't fit in this picture. It shouldn't even be in this picture. We shouldn't be having this discussion. There's no possible way. Um, it's not good for you. It's bad for you. So, uh, I'm going to move you out of that car into a hoop dee. Get you out of debt and increase your income.

1:29:57And, um, then I'm going to start, uh, learning about what my lease actually says about pest control. In most states, the landlord is in charge of pest control. Unless the tenant is such a freaking slob that they caused rats to be in the place. In which case, you may be in charge of it. So, I don't know what we're dealing with. But, um, clay, I, I want you to reframe this. The way you describe your life as, as though this is happening to you. Mm-hmm. And I want you to visualize yourself getting in the driver's seat of your own freaking life. And hitting the gas and going forward that way. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Captain of your own destiny. That's it. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Your boss is paying you what you're accepting. Um, you're, you bought a car that like, I want you to own this thing. And that's the only way you're going to get out of it because, because life just keeps happening to me over and over. Get in the driver's seat and say, what do I want this thing to look like in a year or two years?

1:31:00And let's head that way a thousand miles an hour, man. Yeah. The people that, um, that they get along in this world, that we call successful are the ones that leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. They don't sit in the cave and wait on a duck to fly in already cooked. Mm-hmm. And that's what you're talking about. It's Dr. Steven Covey's book is a great one to read clay. It's called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The number one habit of the seven. The first one is to be pro, the highly effective people are pro-active, what John's talking about. They happen to things, things don't happen to them. That's the definition of pro-active. And so, you know, when in doubt, you bust something, not get busted. When in doubt, you know, we're going to hit something. When in doubt, we're going to be a man of action. Uh, when in doubt, we're, you know, and we're going to be slow enough that we're wise enough that we don't buy $20,000 a car when we make $25,000. We're going to be slow enough and wise enough that we pair taxes on time. Be slow enough and wise enough that we're reading the lease

1:32:01and, um, or not leaving a dump in some guy's landlord's house so that he has a pest problem because you brought it there. Or you didn't bring it there and he's being a twerp and we need to hold his feet to the fire. Hey, dude, yeah, the law actually says you fix this. And here's what your lease that you gave me says. It says you fix this. I own a bunch of rental houses. We do all the pest control. And I don't have any tenants that create pest problems. If I do, that tenant doesn't stay there because they're tearing up my house. That's what that means. No, thank you. So, you know, these are proactive things that I do. So that that, that's going to say, again, I don't want to mount horn here but I was a dean of students at the law school in Texas. I drove a $3,500 truck. And when I got my job here at Belmont, Nashville, I drove a $17,000. I really upgraded, man, to $17,000. You're making a lot more than... Right. So it's like, listen, man, like,

1:33:02drive what you can afford. Happen to your life. Yeah, I got to do this. You don't, man, especially when it comes to depreciating asset. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today.

1:34:02That's RamseySolutions.com. Tax season is upon us to get free checklists and guides that will help you file. Free. Go to RamseySolutions.com. Slice taxes. Shelley is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Shelley. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I'm pretty new to watching your show. And so I just really wanted to reach out because me and my husband are in a big mess, financially, and we can't seem to get on the same page. I'll kind of run down some numbers for you. It's pretty bad. We have a student loan debt for my student loan debt, $52,000. We have federal tax debt, $12,000.

1:35:02We have a mortgage, $1.5. And then we have personal loans that total about $3331,652. We have credit cards all together that total $152,160. And then we have business loans that are $199,382. And business credit cards are about $65,156. So we have a big mess in it. So you have a business that is failing? Yes, the business has been struggling in the past. Yeah, you're not making money and you've been financing it with all these loans. Correct. Having too many people and payroll and not having... You're not making a profit for whatever reason and you've been financing it for how long?

1:36:02How long has it been since you made a profit? Well, I mean, technically I did make a profit these last few years. But obviously I'm paying loans, so the interest is obviously the only part. I can bet cash flow. I don't have any cash. Yeah, but you've been using... You didn't use these credit cards, these business loans, these personal loans, these other credit cards, all to finance the purchase of the business. You've been operating it at a loss and feeding it. Yes, so for my portion, yes, I've been feeding the business with the debt to... And all of this debt was created by this business? No, no. My husband, he had an idea to pull money, balance transfers, also takes cards and it's personal loans to put it in the stock market to invest.

1:37:03So, for the first few years, he made a lot of money. We had a big tax bill. The second year, we had a lot that we owed. And he's never repaid those loans and credit cards that he pulled many off of. So, his debt is about 360 of this, which is from him only lying to credit and got a business loan. And business credit cards. So does anybody around their work? Yes. Like for a job to make money? My husband has a WG job. What does he make? About 120 a year. Yeah, and what was the profit on your business that you paid taxes on last year? 57,000. Okay. Do you all both agree that you'll have a mess? Yes. Do you all both agree that you want it to go away? Yes. Okay.

1:38:03It's just a method of, so my husband got a bonus for about 12,000. And so, since I've been listening to you, I was like, well, we do the snowball, pay these debts, the smaller debts off to forget about $500 a month. He wants to pay on a personal loan. That's for $40,000. And he wanted to put it towards that to get the balance down. But as soon as he was, we're arguing about it, and then he called in and it went into collections. So now it's in collections because he hasn't been paying it. He didn't have enough money to pay it. So, the money that he made on the stock trades, he put back into the stock market and lost it? Yes. So, he was day trading. He never paid any of the... I know he didn't pay the taxes, but also you said he made a profit that caused taxation. That's where taxes come from. Yes. And then that profit, he amounted, not only made the money back, so he borrowed $60,000 on credit card or whatever,

1:39:05and they put it in the market. He got the $60,000 back. Plus money didn't pay the taxes and put all of that back into the market and then lost it. So, the first year that he did that, which was about in 2020, he did pay our tax bill. It was like $25,000 I think it was. Where's the money? Did he lose it or not? He had the money and he paid it in full that year. Now, the money that he made in the stock market, where did it go? He put it back into the market and lost it, didn't he? Yes. Okay, that's all I want to know. You don't have any money is what I'm trying to establish. Yes, that's correct. None of the money that was made is there anymore. It's all gone. Okay. Do you own anything other than your home? He says cars, he doesn't have a loan on them. And then I have vehicles that I don't have a loan on.

1:40:05Okay, so your business doesn't have any assets? Oh, it does. Sorry, it does. I have desk computers, tables, laptop. What's your grocery revenues on the business? 330 or 25. Okay. How many employees? Right now, I'm down to one. Okay. I look and go. What do you do? What's your trade? What's your skill? I have a tax accounting business. Couldn't you make more than 57 working for somebody else? I actually did the end of 24. I got a job, a full-time job, making 110. And then I got laid off in August. Okay, you need to go get another one. Yeah. Yeah, because you need the income to build. We need the income to be able to learn, lean into this. Okay. And then back to your original question,

1:41:06y'all are arguing about what to pay off first and so forth. Not counting your mortgage. You have a long road ahead of you. So the first thing we need to do is establish two principles before we begin to attack the debt. Principle number one is no more day trading. 97% of day traders over a three-year period of time lose money. So no more stupid schemes. Okay. Second principle is businesses that don't make a profit are a bad hobby. They're not a business. If it's not making a solid profit, if you work your full-time accounting job and you can run 57,000 others thing on your own as a side hustle, in profit, and you know the difference in profit and gross, then keep it open. But if you can't make a profit,

1:42:07you do not borrow any more money to keep it open. You close it. Okay. You've fed this thing enough. And he's fed his craziness enough. Can I throw a third principle in Dave? Third principle, Shelley, is for this to work, you're going to need all the synchronicity and momentum that y'all two can muster together. And so y'all are going to have to decide, this is our debt. We both have done some dumb thing. We've both done this. And we're both going to attack this stuff together. You will never conquer this thing if he's responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off your... Exactly. Then pull the mortgage out of the equation, list all of these debts individually, smallest to largest, and begin to pay them in that order. After the $12,000 tax bill is paid, $12,000 tax bill is the first thing. And that should have been paid out of his bonus. If he's got that $40,000 bonus, lay in there, pay the IRS. You do not want the IRS. I mean, you're in tax accounting.

1:43:07You know that you don't want other IRS money. It's not only expensive, but they have ridiculous power to screw up your life. List your debts smallest to largest. Now, if he's making 120, you're making 110, you're making another 50. We're up in the $2,300,000 range now. We're living on nothing. And we begin to attack this. Probably going to take you four or five years to clean up this mess. But it took you six or eight to make the mess. Hey, guys, George Campbell here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money

1:44:12and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash insurance, ramseysolutions.com slash insurance. David and Pittsburgh, hey, Dave, how are you? I'm doing good. Thank you for taking the call. Sure. How can we help? So I'm a huge fan with you guys. I've been watching for five years. I just want to say you guys are doing absolutely miracle work.

1:45:12So the question is, right now, me, my wife, I think about relocating. And that we are thinking about having a kid as well within one year to a year and a half. So our planning definitely want to buy a house to build the good memories for future kids. So they have a good memory and kind of build a good foundation with that. And so my question is we either want to do 15% of 15 years fixed mortgage, or 30 years fixed mortgage, or we're thinking about paying cash. I know your answer probably is going to be around the 15 years fixed mortgage, or the paying cash. However, the problem is we are afraid we're not going to have enough cash flow because my wife is planning to not work and taking care of the kids. And that I will be having the only single income that we will have. Okay. So you don't have the cash. So right now, we have my salary is 70K. And she's doing 55K. We talked about that around.

1:46:13Do you have the money and a pile to pay cash for the house? That's not really an option, is it? There is. So right now, you're going to be very happy to hear this. I graduated my grad school, and I did pay it off on my student loan debt with around 100K. And then we both net around 1.2 million, and just investing in the mutual fund ETF bonds and stocks. So you have a million dollars in mutual funds and bonds and stocks? Yeah, that's approximately right. Yeah, depending on the valuation. Bro, lead with that next time. Yeah, so way to go. So no, I would not borrow money when I have a million dollars in investments. I would just take some of that and buy me a house. Simple. You know, I, Dave. Because you have a million dollars. So how expensive a home are you thinking about buying, sir? So we're looking at 350 to 280K. Perfect.

1:47:13So 350 leaves you 650 in investments. You have no house payment. There's no strain on your budget. Your wife can stay home with the babies. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why would you not do that? Yeah, help us out. Why would you not automatically do that? Pitch us on why this is a scary ideal. Right. I think I'm just running the two scenarios that usually the market return 10% however, you know, when you pay down a house, you're going to guarantee we turn back 3.5% on the real estate. And also, you have to avoid paying. But your wife has to work. Right. And her plan is to not work once you have to. You missed the point. You just took out a house payment and put her in a job for your little investment scheme that you think is real. But you left out the fact that you're taking on risk. And the piece that when your head hits the pillow, it goes to sleep. You have no payments.

1:48:13You make different decisions than when you have a house payment. So don't do that to your family. You have worked very hard and done a very good job saving money. Use that money to buy a house or don't buy a house. Be a renter. Right. But I mean, what do you do on home now? So right now we are renting. Okay. We're waiting. We're waiting for. And what is your income, Dave? So I do 70K a year. What does she make? 55. How did you get a million, too, with that income? I think there was. I got lucky with some of the investment. It also fortune and unfortunate because we got some inheritance. How much inheritance did you get? She roughly got around 200 to 300 and kind of grew. And then I got around 300, 400 and kind of grew. Kind of. Get around one meal. Okay. There it is. Alright. So whoever passed away and left you all this money bought you your first home and that's

1:49:16their blessing to you. And you pay cash for it. And that's what you're going to do. If you're smart, there's no way you need to be playing around with all this stuff. Emily's in Denver. Hi, Emily. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hey. I'm. I've carried most of the financial responsibility in my marriage the almost like past six years. My husband says he wants the same financial goals, but he feels the need to constantly spend. Doesn't follow through and won't take accountability. He also has a history of addiction. And he recently racked up as of what I know, at least $6,500 and credit card debt. On things like $7.11 and used money I gave him for money that I saved for a trip. On his own personal spending and then added me as an authorized user to a credit card that I didn't agree to. Is he using again, Emily? Is he what is he using again?

1:50:16I don't know. You know. You know. What do you think? I don't. I think his behavior doesn't line up, but I can't prove anything. If behavior is a language, what's he telling you? It's just using. Yeah. He's back. He doesn't want me. Well, he wants the addiction. He's in the addiction. Yeah. An addict can have no access to money. None. Okay. And somebody in recovery knows that. Somebody who's back to using again, and you've been down this road with him before, or world class manipulators, world class distortors of reality, and they make you feel like you're crazy, right? Yeah. Very much so. So here's the deal. If I'm you, you sit down with him and say, okay, we're going to get you back into rehab, and get you back in some help, and you're relinquishing all control of all money until you've been driver two years.

1:51:21And you need to put a freeze on your credit report. A second, you hang up this phone call, and that way nobody else can add you to any more debt. How do I do that? Freeze it. You can go on the line, go online, and you freeze your credit report. It's a very easy to do. And it will do it across all three of the accrediting, like credit reporting bureaus. Yeah. But you're, this is hardcore, kiddo. The only chance he has is, and the only chance your marriage has, is for him to stop using, and the first step is a complete confrontation. And, you know, he gets into a program. If he's not willing to get into a program, there's nothing you can do to save your marriage or your money. You have to get away from him as fast as you can. Because 100% of addicts burn down their world. 100% of them are broke. Until they get some handling, until they get the other side of the addiction, the variety, they all of them. Regardless of what they're addicted to, whether it's sports betting,

1:52:21or whether it's pornography, or whether it's heroin, the 100% of them burn their world down. We work with them every day. Because we are there while their finances are burning. Because you just light money on fire when you're addicted to something. Just burn it right there in the middle of the kitchen table. And this guy's doing it. All the symptoms are there, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I know you don't want it to be true. We don't want it to be true either. But we also don't want you, you don't want it to be true thing to allow you to walk around like it's not happening. It's happening. Yeah, it drives me crazy because I can't screw it. I don't have to prove it. We've got all the signs in front of us. And by the way, if he's not using, let's go one step darker. Where's he doing with the money? Absolutely doesn't care about your marriage, about how you feel, your safety at all. Because he's going crazy with this stuff. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So if he's not using, then, man, he's got some other issue.

1:53:25You're some character. Yes, he powers. Yeah. Not even worse. Or worse or as bad in a different way. Maybe some better way. You're going to need to get yourself your own checking account and get on your online bills. I'm sure you already have this. But where you're paying, that you got electricity and light and why you're going to take ownership of this for a season. Yeah, you have to take over everything. You have to take your name off of everything. His name off of everything. He cannot have access to money unless you hand him cash. I hate this for a kid. That's so he can butt gas in his car with cash, which means he puts gas in the tank and walks into the store and pays for it and walks back out to the car. Like we used to do. I did that recently. They took it. I know. It's amazing. It was awesome. That little walk changes your what you pay for gas. Thank you.

1:54:38Hey, good folks, Dr. John Delone here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramseysolutions.com slash careers. Our scripture today, Matthew 626. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or store away in barns.

1:55:38And yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Earl Wilson said money in the bank is like toothpaste in the tube. Easy to take out. Hard to put back. I like that. Ah, it's pretty cute. Mary is in Minneapolis. I marry. How are you? I'm good. Thank you, Dave. We're taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, I have a little bit of a dilemma. I became a widow four years ago, the age of 38. Wow, man. And my husband was a farmer. He was 51. And he left me with quite a bit of assets. He left me with farmland. And of course, our home. And then a million dollar life insurance policy on top of that. Wow. What's the. What's the. What's the. Against the farmland? Oh, there's debt against the farmland. Yes, how much?

1:56:38Close to two million. It's about 1.8. And what's the farmland worth? Around six million. Okay. Right. So what does the last four years look like? I continued around the farm for three years. I had a farmhand that I have been trusted. He worked with him for a very long time. And he took over the farm. I took over the business. And we ran it for three years. Successfully, we did, we did very well. And then he bought the farm from me a year ago, 2025, January 2025. So I sold the farm. I didn't sell any of the farmland, but I sold the farm site and the equipment to him. I'm sorry. What is the difference in a farmland and a farm site? Well, the farm site has the shop. There's a home on it. There's hog barns. And then it's just where it's just the home base for the farm. And then the farmland is what they grow the crops in.

1:57:40So do you own the land still? I own the land, yes. And you have the debt still? And I still have some debt against the land, yes. Okay. So where are we today and how can I help? So I'm looking at trying to pay down some of this debt with the life insurance. Proceeds. I have about 1.1 million in cash. It's in a investment portfolio. But I wanted to pay down some of the smaller debts. And I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do with this money. What are the smaller debts? The smaller ones. So there's a land, there's one land mortgage for 40,000. My home mortgage is 85,000. And then there's an SBA loan for 125,000. Okay. All right. Is there a business separate from the actual farm operation? No. Okay.

1:58:40All right. So the SBA loan is associated with the farm. It is, yes. Okay. Now when you sold the other piece of ground the other day to your farmhand, what did it sell for and where is that money? It sold for 800,000 and that is a contract for a deed with him. So that's where my monthly income comes from is that contract for a deed. Okay. So he's paying you how much a month? 72, or 72 hundred, sorry. Okay. Is he also leasing the land from you that he farms? Yes. He's also leasing the land and there's a 10 year lease on it. So he will be farm, it's 500 acres. He'll be farming it for the next 500 or 10 years. And that brings in about 120,000 a year. But he also put himself in kind of a pickle because if you sell this land or if in 10 years you want to do something else, he's bought this farm equipment but he won't have anything to farm, right?

1:59:41Right. He farms around 2,000 acres. So he has some contracts with other farm landowners. So the balance on the farmland is now down to what? The balance on the farmland let's see. So I have 1.1 million in one piece of land and then there's 383,000 in another piece. And then the smaller one is just 40,000. I got you. Okay. All right. Okay. So I think I've got the picture right. If I do, what I would do is to do what you're suggesting. I'd take 250,000 of your million and pay off the SBA and the 85 and the 40, right? Okay. And then you're 100% debt-free except for the two land mortgages. Mm-hmm. And you have an income of 7,200 which you can easily live on. Yes. And 100% of the profits from the farm go to reduce debt at the farmland. Yes. Yes. So the profits coming from the land, the land rent is covering the payments for the...

2:00:49No, not just the payments. You're making more than that. Right. In a given crop year on the acreage, your portion, when he farms it on your behalf, your portion is how much. It was 300 grand, wasn't it? Or 150 grand. Yes, 120. 120, okay. And you have 300,000 on the small mortgage and a million on the other mortgage. So in two years, the small mortgage is gone because you can put that whole 120 on it. Oh, okay. Okay. And then we're going to do the same thing until we get rid of that whole million. Okay. And so by the time his lease is up, his 10-year lease is up, before it's up, this farmland's going to be free and clear. Yes. And then you're sitting on a $15 or $20 million net worth at that point. Correct. Okay. Because the value of the land will have gone up, plus your investments will have gone up. That's 150 invested that you're not touching either because you're living off the $7,200 from the land contract on when you sold him the property.

2:01:49Did I get that right? You did. Yes. Okay. That sounds about right. Mary, can I throw an alternative reality to Etchia? Yes. I spent a big chunk of my life out in West Texas where there's cotton farmers and cattle farmers. The conversations I had with those, especially those older men, the thing that I felt at the end of the day was giving them their coronary challenges was the debt on their farms. It took one bad year to start a debt cycle that they could really never ever get out of. Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it and go have a different life? There is not no. I'm not opposed to selling maybe a hundred of the acres down the road. If I run into that issue, I don't think I will, but I don't want to sell the land.

2:02:50I want to hold on to it. It's my husband's family land and some of it was passed down. He actually bought 200 of the acres right this like a year before he passed away. And that's where that 1.1 million came in. I'm more nervous about this than you are, so I'll keep that to myself. But just, man, I just watched in those farmers. We're getting rid of all the little mosquito debts right now. And then we've just got two big ones to knock and the smaller one of those will be going into more years. So pretty quickly we're down to, and the land goes up in value. So we got an 8 million, two years from now, we went an 8 million dollar piece of ground with a 900,000 dollar loan on it. Yeah. And that doesn't scare me as much. Because then we're whittling away at it, whittling away at it, and you love it, and you're comfortable. And you've settled into this with a great rhythm. I'm very proud of you. I mean, you really stepped into this kiddo well done. And what's your husband's name? Your husband who passed away? Kevin.

2:03:50Kevin. Pretty awesome guy. Oh my gosh, he was amazing. Yes. He was an amazing farmer and an amazing husband. A great dad. Yeah. He was a few of the different guys. I just always want to take a moment and a honor somebody by saying their name who passed away. But I also want to honor a husband who gave his wife the privilege of you got to grieve for as long as you wanted to. A million dollar life insurance policy and a business that was right set up. You got to be sad for a season, not worry about where your next meal is going to come from. And that's noble and honorable and good for Kevin, man. Yeah. He's a good man. He took care of his wife. And she took care of business afterwards. Pretty incredible. The dynamic duo there. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Congratulations, Mary. We're proud of you. Very cool. Thanks for giving us the honor of talking that through with you. Yeah. Pretty crazy. So yeah, just always be looking for a way where the end of the story is. I got zero debt because that always leads me to more wealth and more peace. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books.

2:04:50We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. Thank you.