Doping Scandals, Coach Sackings & Shock Defeats - Is Georgian Rugby Falling Apart?

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Welcome back to the HG rugby podcast. Now, if you thought that the six nations was mad

this year, wait until you hear about its little brother, the Rugby Europe Championship. We had

upsets way down the order. We had a shock winner in the final and we even had a doping scandal

that has rocked the sport too. It's very cool. Joining me to break down all of the gossip and the

details is Karl Dawson, a friend of the show. Welcome back Karl.

Thank you very much, yeah. Obviously last time we jumped on was to talk about the rise of

Spanish rugby. Now we get to talk about the near miss and the doping scandal and all the other

fun that rugby Europe seems to offer as well. Well, it's a high standard, mate, because

that Spanish rugby podcast went absolutely mad. People can find it if you search on YouTube,

you can search HG rugby Spain or if you're trolled back in the audio versions, which everyone

you're listening to, you'll be able to find it. That was a very popular podcast. You've got high

standards to meet, mate. Yeah, I've got to shoot high now, mate, especially after after what

that we didn't expect. I don't know that to go as far as it did, but there is obviously an

appetite for rugby Europe and it's growing bigger and bigger every day.

100 percent, mate, 100 percent. So let's get straight into it. We have to say,

obrigado to our, is that right? To our new European overlords, Portugal.

Now, I never would have seen this coming. So talk we through how Portugal went from,

let's be honest, since the 2023 rugby World Cup, Portugal had been a bit of a non-event in rugby.

They got all that goodwill and failed to deliver on it. Now, all of a sudden from nowhere,

they're rugby Europe champions again. Yeah, so I've had the pleasure of obviously dealing with a lot

of the Portuguese side. Obviously, Tom Sackleton on previously. I was over there for the

Ireland A game when they took the batter in as well. So I was there for the 106 to 7 defeat over

Ireland A. Probably the lowest point of Portuguese rugby, probably possibly on par with obviously

the rugby Europe semi-final defeat to Spain in Lisbon as well, which was a big,

big shocker for them. But every time I spoke to him, it was a case of there's a rebuild,

there's a rebuild. There is a process to this. And they managed to time it well. They blooded a lot

of a lot of you through that process as well. And there's a lot of players that have developed

with the Portuguese rugby. So there are a lot of the top 12 in Portugal support the actual

national team. So they're available consistently. They don't have to rely consistently on the top 14

or the Proditor to be available for players. So they've managed to uncover the new 10 as well,

Fugo Cabarero, which is an absolute sensation. Plays with in Portugal always available,

always steady and just seem to add that edge that they missed so much last season as well.

They had obviously, I think it was Aubrey at 10 or Fugo Aubrey at 10 last time. And just very

inexperienced, very naive with some of his decision-making. And it kind of caught Portugal out.

And then the summer, obviously the Philippa in the Ireland game. And then we saw little

inklings of what was possible of them in the November internationals. And then from game one,

they have been absolutely on it in the wreck, like they have been phenomenal through the backline.

And that's always been Portuguese super strength. I actually spoke with Simon Maddox and I was

chatting with him and I was like, the Portuguese, the best way I could describe Portugal's rare rugby

was organised chaos. He took that as a bit of an offence because he's like, well, it's not chaos

because we know what we're doing. And I was like, yeah, but that's what organised chaos is. Like,

nobody else knows what you're doing, but you guys might. And they were still trying to play that

way, but there was an element that they didn't know how to play it. And this season, it's clicked.

When you've got Rodrigo Marta being able to run through lines through like a ghost. He's like the

Portuguese version of Ninny Ashvilley, like he was different gravy in this tournament. And

just everything clicked, everything was perfect. Georgia were there for the taking from day dot.

I've said this in a couple of other bits. Georgia were there for the taking in this tournament

and Spain led it slip and Portugal took the opportunity. Simple as that, they've risen from

the ashes of pretty much a shit show from the 2023 lot players retire because they couldn't make it

as pro players. So they retired and went into being a come a dentist. Well,

have them become a car salesman. Look, there's all these different job roles that they went into

because they knew it wasn't a long-term role. So they lost a lot of key players. They re-blooded

new players more focus on top 12 and the results have paid. Pay dividends, obviously,

winning the wrecking the way they did. Fair play to them. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the key

lesson. I hope someone from the WIU is listening. You've got to get your house in order at home,

not Ryan, other people to come and sort out for you and the results are there. But, mate,

you kind of alluded to it. Georgia, this is kind of the meaty one for it, like for where do we begin?

I mean, we'll come to the actual on the on fields, I think, afterwards. But we've got to

talk about the off-field stuff first because it kind of the news broke. Now, we'd heard

Whispering's of this a few months ago. I feel like maybe even Christmas. I texted you back in

November because I was privy to this information back in November, but kind of through a source.

I was not really allowed to bring it to the public domain because it obviously affects investigations

and stuff like that. But yeah, we were sort of sat on this one for a little while, mate, and

then it suddenly just broke, and I was like, okay, we can sort of talk about it now.

So the kind of first that we heard of it was, I think it was a former captain.

Yeah, Merak. Well, Merak Cherakadze was used as the reason behind it, shall we say. So,

there's also been another interview that I've seen since he was used as a scapegoat. He

wasn't actually, he said he wasn't aware he was then given a six-year ban without knowing.

Basically, it was like the Mike Tyson back in the day where he was using a fake penis with

filled with somebody else's urine. There was a test that somebody had mixed his test and

stuff like that. There's been systematic doping from 2019 through to 2023. I think they found

there's six individual cases. Six other players have been roped into this. The team doctors

been sacked. It goes a lot deeper than this. 100% it goes a lot deeper than this. And they've

obviously used their class as recreational drugs. It's around PEDs. It's around performance

in hearts and drugs. There was conversations around some of the tests that were being used as

clean tests. Also had dirty tests in them. And it's a bit of a whole mess on top of everything

helps that's going on as well. There's other bits that all tie into this, mate. But yeah,

the skate goat was utilised as Merrick Sharkadzi. He's now had his ban from six years,

reduced to two years because he's changed from rugby to MMA. So he's now an MMA fighter instead.

While his ban had been reduced, so he was 104 caps. He was a key crucial player for Georgia during

the World Cup and had his plans to finish his career at a 2027 World Cup. But he got called into

the training ground one day and said, mate, you've got six year ban. That's it. See you later. Thank

you very much. That's how that ended for him. It's absolutely mad. And it's like, I don't think

scandal on this kind of scale is big news anyway. But kind of Georgia with the good will they had

in so much of the rugby community, you know, all the talk about getting them into the six nations

and going the game and all this stuff, which we talked about on our Spanish podcast about,

you know, the pros and cons of that. And now for this, it just, I mean, we'll get into some more

stuff in a second, but it's hard to overstate just how big this, especially for rugby Europe.

I mean, what did will rugby say that they still haven't decided on the sporting sanctions for

Georgia yet? Correct. Yeah. So obviously, that's what potentially four or five rugby Europe

championships titles at risk. They potentially have them removed. There's a potential that

there'll be banned from rugby Europe. They'll be banned from the World Cup potentially as well

coming up. So yeah, there's a lot to do. Obviously, I was there at the Rec Finals. Don't the

doping testers were everywhere. It was they were and there was a say no to doping t-shirts being

worn by the officials as well, which was quite ironic. I was like, was that planned? Or they were

like, oh, no, no, that that was already happening. I was like, okay, Perra. Perfectly timed

announcement alongside the t-shirts that everyone was wearing, but they were everywhere.

Yeah, it's an absolute mess and it tarnishes all the hard work that they put into it, but there's

obviously a lot going on off field for Georgia rugby as well. Well, let's get into that now. So

there's been all the chat about the Six Nations. And I saw it again, Wales Online Recycled,

the old story about Black Lion and stuff that are getting into the URC. But what are you hearing

that you feel comfortable talking about that you're hearing from behind the scenes in Georgia in

terms of, you know, the governance of the game and things like that. Because we've been talking

off errands even outside of the doping scandal that we've just seen. It feels like that there are

things not all as well in the ballroom. Yeah, so there's obviously a lot of conversations in

hallways and in dark, dark places that probably don't always need to get out, but for the ones that

have fairly open, Georgia of kind of, a lot of it was funded by the government still through

circles and stuff like that. So as you probably noticed, they're not using the bigger stadiums

into BC anymore. So they're using one of the smaller stadiums because the bigger stadiums

sort of been pushed towards football. A lot of fundings now been pushed towards football instead

in Georgia because Georgia haven't got into the Six Nations like they sort of sold the dreams

of the government. So the government have kind of moved the funding away from rugby. So

that can only pan badly. They've released all of their media staff the other week as well,

just before the rep finals. So there's no media, technically media staff working for Georgia rugby

any longer. There's, yeah, there's just a lot of black lines got obviously got withdrawn from

their wreck supercut because they thought it wasn't of a good enough standard for them to develop.

The URC won't take them because nobody wants to travel to the police because it costs too much.

South Africans blocked it, I think. Yeah, so they also they looked at it. I heard that they were

looking at trying to enter a league in Australia as well just to get game time. They were

looking at the MLR when all the teams were dropping around. They were looking at any league that

would potentially open the door and nobody's opened the door. That's why a lot of the black lines

you'll probably start seeing appearing more in the proledure or top 14 and other teams around.

But there is a little gem that for the URC spot that's been spoken about and it's potentially

between a Welsh and a Spanish set up. Okay, this, welcome to the Segway of the podcast I didn't expect.

A Spanish set up, we've again, check out our Spain podcast. I think there's massive potential

for rugby and Spain, massive potential for rugby and Spain, but I wouldn't have thought the

professional rugby and Spain would be ready for something like that yet. Well, obviously the

obviously the Iberians won the Super Cup this year quite constantly. So they they've centralized

contracted 35 players now. So the Spanish clubs have now, the Spanish nation have now got

35 players centrally contracted to play for the Iberians and then they're contracted out to clubs

within the division to honour. So to keep key players within Spain available for the Iberians and

for the national side, there's 35 players that centralised contracts. Other players have

been managed to negotiate their contracts with their top 14 clubs, etc to make himself available,

like Mario Pachardi when I had him on. He'd gone to the national at Un to play there, but he'd

negotiated in his contract that he was able to be released for all Spain camps. So any, so there's

a lot of players out there to try and make this available. So they comfortably won the rugby

Europe Super Cup, the URC spots available. One of the Welsh regions is obviously whatever's

happening in Wales, but there is there is conversations at a higher level potentially for a merger

of resource between a Welsh and a Spanish set up I've heard. This is the biggest opportunity

for Spain to get in the door at the URC level, because once this door is closed I can't see anyone

else getting in it, but there's apparently there's there is conversations going on.

Well, you've managed to tell me something about Welsh rugby that I didn't know. I've heard some

strange merger stories in Welsh rugby in the past, so that's up there. I'm heard you were

right. Goodness me. I think I better move on before we get any more excitement on that one. Wow,

yeah. So anyway, coming back to Georgia, so when you said you said originally you felt

that Georgia were there for the taking. What made you say that?

Yeah, so watching during the summer during the November International,

there weren't quite there. Obviously Rich Cockrell left after some

probably unflattering results that Georgia would normally be used to. It just seemed that

obviously what was happening as well was looming over him a little bit, like it just didn't see.

They, the first game of the wreck as well, they went to Switzerland and, or sorry, they played

Switzerland and the first half they got held to what? Seven, seven, three, or somewhat again,

they were only seven, three ahead. So, and then obviously they managed to go through the gears.

That was more because of Switzerland's sort of still being new to the wreck. Then they,

they looked very lackluster against the the Dutch as well, but obviously the Dutch have now managed to

like recap 18 new players, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a whole different process going on

in the in the Dutch team, which we'll catch up a later on anyway. But Georgia just didn't look

Georgia-esque. Then in the Spain game, if they hadn't played Kermann Avicetta in the first half,

but it started with Tanny by Spain would have won comfortably. That's my opinion. They,

they looked a completely different team in the second half with Tanny and the same with

that would have then obviously had them on the opposite side. To Portugal, they'd have had to,

they'd obviously had the better draw. Portugal would have obviously had to have welcomed

to Georgia for the semi-final, et cetera. There was a there was a much better opportunity for Spain

and even Pablo come out as well, Bozer and said there's quite a few players didn't take their

opportunity this tournament that I think there was an element of it. It was there for prepping for

the well cup, but also it was the best opportunity for them to win and a lot of Portugal took that

opportunity because well, I'm not I'm sure you saw the semi-final as well because Spain against

Portugal, they basically hadn't they didn't score points for what 40-50 minutes. It was thought it

was an absolute shut out, but Georgia even conceded 30 points to Romania and Romania haven't looked

great for a little while. They looked very good against Spain, they just managed to get the ball

ticking, but Georgia would effort to take it, make 100% and I think it was an accumulation of

everything. They got the new they've got a part, they've got an interim coach before the new

head coach comes in in the summer. It's a changing of styles. He's got to be having to think now.

My goodness, because he's still coaching it, breathe and breathe of all your appointed

his replacement. Correct, tied into it. Two years there with a two-year deal with the two-year

extension. The current Marco, is it Bargolomia or whatever, he's the current interim head coach,

he's staying on as the assistant, so they've used it as a transition. They've brought more players

back in, etc, but they just don't look as deadly as they did. They've got some exceptional players

coming through, even Tabu Zadze doesn't look, he looks a shadow of himself from what he out,

what he scored, nine tries in the last wreck, and I think he got one this tournament, so it's like

Nini Ash really still just looks unreal, but again, a show of a plan. Did you get picked in the end?

Yeah, so he come back for the Spain game, it was available for the Spain game,

then available for the semis and for the final. But even in the final, they looked at moments,

they looked exceptional. I was sat with Pascuali from the game day Boits and literally I said to him,

I said, how the hell have they done that? So literally they managed to cover the whole

whole width of the pitch in three passes, and just with pace, with speed, just the ability that

they had, and you just think, when they turn it on, they turn it on, and I, at half time,

Portugal had gone down to 14 men for a yellow card, Georgia just got a trial on the break,

and I was just like, that's the time they switched it on. Georgia's getting ruthless at that point,

that didn't come. And yeah, I said it was for grabs, and I actually spoke with one of the Spanish

players when I went to Amsterdam, and I said, this is the best opportunity that somebody beats Georgia,

and they said, I hope so, and they didn't take the opportunity, so it was a bit of a show.

Yeah, we're coming back to that. So yeah, Nini Ash really did get picked, because that was one

of the things I was going to ask. The whole Richard Cockrell thing, because he's come out and done

an interview, that he said that in his contract was that he had to beat a tier one nation in the

first two years, and obviously in the final game of November against Japan, they kick at,

Japan kicked three points in overtime to beat them by one point, and that also moves Japan

into the top 12. Georgia dropped down to 13th, which is massive for the World Cup seeding.

Yeah. And he said, then that was it. That was gone. So as soon as that kick went over,

Georgia were contractually allowed to say goodbye.

There was more going on behind the scenes than just that as well. I think, obviously,

Cockers is very vocal, and I think there was a bit more of a challenge from him to the

hierarchy of, well, if you don't like it, sack me, I think there was a bit more of an element of

around that. And obviously, he'd probably been told about this as well, wherever he wanted to

exit before he got dragged into any conversation around it, because having met the bloke and how

to the point is I'm pretty much guaranteed he would be bang against this sort of investigation,

and this conspiracy commission investigation, everything like this. The last thing I could

imagine Cockers wanted to be involved in is a dope in scandal. Wow. My goodness. My goodness.

Anyway, we're going to carry on now to talk about the rest of the rugby Europe championship.

We'll talk about Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, the lot. But before we go and have that

conversation, just remind people who are watching, if you're enjoying what you're seeing so far,

please consider subscribing to the HG rugby podcast. There are no rules about what I talk about

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giving a five-star rating. You can even leave a comment if you are on Spotify. I'm just getting

involved. I'm interested to hear from you. I'm interested to hear where you are listening or

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If you are coming back from the Spain podcast, say a lot to us. And yeah, many thanks to

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Okay Carl, let's now deep dive into it. Let's start with Spain. Our favorite topic,

your home. You kind of mentioned it already missed opportunity for Spain. Could have been there

year. Is Spanish rugby still rising in your opinion or is it faltered a little bit?

Yes, it is on the rise. I think last year was probably more of the boom before the reset.

So a lot of obviously the focus last seat last sort of wreck was get qualified for the well cut

by no other Ezra graces they had to qualify. So there was no chance they were taking any risks

around it. They stuck with a squad, they built momentum, got the right seeding for the draw,

for the well cut as well. Then there's kind of an element of we can reset. But I think they expected

some of the players in the back up spots to potentially be a bit better than what they actually

got the products out of. So I was there obviously in the in the Netherlands game and when

Gonzalo Gunwessa took he just he's knee blew up like in every every fucking direction. He was in

absolute bits. He's out for a year. He was playing ten. He just he everything was ticking very well

with him at ten. He took that hit and then that was that was that. They've also signed

up. They've kind of come away from the Bon Tempo kicking game. That that was bad. That was my

favourite thing about them. I loved it but it was it was hardly used this tournament. He wasn't

always available. I think there's I think he's got a knock and stuff. So they didn't have that

momentum to sort of pull him and keep him into games. So I think there was a change of game plan

change of focus of what other options have we got which was good to see that there is other

options but some of the other options potentially didn't take their opportunities. And when we got

to the semi-final against Portugal they did that same number on the Portuguese last season. So

they literally slowed the play down. I straighted them. Got the ref on their side. There was

that momentum on them and the Portuguese went and did it to this time and they just didn't have

an answer for it. So it was kind of a reverse psychology a reverse play and the Portuguese managed

to make it work for them. And then they struggled to get going again with with the Romania game.

Romania just managed to switch it on. The red card could have literally Romania could have fell

apart but Romania just managed to just they they seem to be more of a tournament beast in that that

element didn't start great but ended very strong. But the future is bright for Spain. We've got

obviously Chino La Forge who who's coming from the sevens wasn't looking at playing 15s but it's

now playing for Cisneros and obviously playing within the Spain set up. You've got John Vessel

who's still around but is either the long term. We've got Alberto Camano that's playing so well

across the back free any position. We've got multiple options at centers. The 10 obviously we've

got Luciano Ricciardi who's now managed to get a loan deal from to lose to Arjen. I think so he

gets more first team rugby in top 14 or probably the next season. So we've got Joe Merkler

so the World Cup is now the focus. It's just this was potentially the best option to get that

wreck win and end the Georgia curse should we say but the Portuguese have managed to do it but

there's a lot of players injured as well within the Spanish set up. So there's a lot of key players

that were from last season that are out. So Maria Pichardi was out. He got injured, done his shoulder,

he's out for an injury. There's obviously Nicolas Info who come in at 10 alongside Tanny Boy.

He picked up a knock young excite in 21-year-old with a different weight. He plays like Tanny but he's

a little bit more chaotic which is a good way to describe it though because you then got,

we've got Tanny Boy at 9, Alumsai Kermann, Arichetta who, Arichetta, is like very much like a Ben

Young's. Steady, steady, steady, steady, slow, methodical way of playing which when you've got a 10

like Luciano Ricciardi outside doesn't work very well. When you've got Tanny Boy that can sneak

round the blind, get the ball out of nowhere, just put blood teams on the back foot. Ricciardi is

able to play his exceptional way of rugby this kid can see and he's also got one hell of a boot on

him obviously. It was an example when England done the 21s, he was kicking, he just kept the ball

ticking. But that was something we didn't really do in this wreck and yeah it was just, it was a bit

of a shame but also there is enough to come away positives from it but it just feels hard to,

especially without how our shit England did as well, got a cling on the summer.

Neither of them really quite got to where I wanted it. What do you think of Spain's strategy

of, they've gone quite different to everybody else. So normally in the rugby Europe championship

teams with these exceptional judges tend to play the likes of Canada, USA, Tonga, and stuff in

the November series for a Spain played against eight teams under 21s teams and development teams

and gave Fiji a hell of a scare in the last game of the autumn as well. What do you think of

that strategy because you could argue that someone like an England day is actually maybe stronger

than a USA. So do you think that's a, do you think it's a smart thing? Do you think it's a bit

money ball? There was a reason behind it. It was to do with ranking points. They won't officially

declared that out loud but it was around ranking points. They didn't expect you're a guider

to obviously manage to jump them but the, the ranking points were safe. They, nobody else could catch

them. They were a great test and a great way of experiencing at that tier one level but not quite

at that tier one level but no shade on what the games were. There were great, great post publicity.

The Ireland Day game was brilliant. The England Day was great even in the torrential rain,

invited the lead and obviously we managed to put one on Fiji again. It's like that's twice that

they've nearly beat Fiji. So it shows exactly where Spanish rugby is but there was a tactical

decision around those selections but I think it also benefited Spain being able to showcase what

they can do at that tier, that level and the under 21s what test, what some players know are

Calori coming over and scoring a tribe that he scored and there was one that he had disallowed

that would have suplexed the one, the first try he scored. It's, it's just great to see that

in Spain. That's the amazing bit is that they're willing to come to Spain and put that show on

not just Kai Boschit and say na na you all right don't worry about it. That's the, that's the best

way for these nations to get as close to tier one opposition as possible is now the route is the

England days, Ireland days, Italy 15s, Scotland day. We've seen more of those games come up in those

those those sort of international slots. That's exciting. Are the people still turning up to watch it?

Yeah so this tournament, kind of Kai Bosch, the the big grand finale, it wasn't as

them, as big of a sellout as hoped but the Fiji games are sellout, that was what nearly 10,000,

the Yiganis game for Ireland day was 20,000 I think sellout. The Viadalid was a big washout

because of the weather but again I think there was still 15,000 tickets sold but they had the Viadalid

Darby on the same weekend. So El Salvador were playing Vrac over over the poppet Peperocho so

you had that to compete with along with a torrential downpour. It was horrendous, it's filthy but

there's the crowds are gathering that the interest is gathering, there's a lot around it but a lot

of it's based on success and unfortunately we didn't we didn't get to the final so they were still

scrabbling around the sell tickets but the atmosphere was amazing and the fan zone was filled and

obviously some some team stayed to watch other games and it was hard though because it was split

between two so it's steady enough to now we had the seventh from the fifth place games and then

the Yiganis stadium had the obviously the bronze and the grand final so it was 20 minutes across

Madrid so not everyone was going to do both sets but great platform, great place and another

showcase obviously we've got the Viadalid for the sevens in the World Series coming up in the

summer as well so Spain are putting their names out and obviously they've put the bid in for the

2035 World Cup so it can only be. Are they are they feeling confident about that because I've seen

that South America is putting for 25. Argentina put the bid in yesterday so I think World Rugby

have obviously got a big issue with taking it to South America, Japan obviously put a bid in.

I think the middle ground will probably be a Spain bit obviously on bias so but I'd love to see

in Argentina I'd love to be able to go to Argentina it is the natural next step in my opinion it has

to go to Argentina in that sense just because of what they've become and as you you regularly

speak about like the love of how the Argentinians play the game and the way that they've developed

there's such a structure underneath the obviously the the super rugby Americas you've got the

obviously you've got the Argentinian leagues at just the depth of teams and clubs and the passion

and being able to go and see that in these stadiums up you just think World Rugby and fans

are missing out on that opportunity being able to go there and watch that but it's not just being

picked on rugby merit and it's politics and all those other govins that have got to be coming

so I didn't probably the cost of inflation over there and it's just whether teams are able to

make it as affordable as what a Spanish European World Cup would be but when you've got the option

of potentially playing in the Bernabéu or the Camp Nou or via the Lid Stadium and you've got

your gannes you've got all these other great grounds of the the Mistyre and Valencia you've got all

of these illegal stadiums but are ready to host up to 90 to a hundred thousand people with

if you'd sit outside with a one euro canya and you can just sit in the sun and imagine that

September up to over World Cup in Spain you can fly in fly out whatever you wanted to do and just

it's just amazing yeah absolutely sold sold okay let's talk about Romania now another another

team that like you go back to last last summer the July tours of 2025 they got absolutely

humiliated in every single game then they kind of built back to it in November you know respectable

and then respectively again in rugby Europe what do you make of where they are well as a sort of

alluded to earlier they're they're very much tournament beats they started very poorly obviously

losing to Germany in the opening game what a shock that was well they should have lost

to them in the first game last tournament to be honest but they it was there I missed

just a few of the German team I was like this is your chance to be Romania because they weren't

they weren't right and then they just grew into the tournament and they could have potentially

come away with that bronze fought like the they're they're they're trying not being counted on

the in the last seconds and knock on in the far corner they they they would have gone on to win

by a point and it's the red card and they grew into the tournament but they've kind of got to be

together as a group for a longer period of time in my opinion with Romania there's a lot of new

players within that squad there's a lot of players out of clubs as well so some of them are free

agents there's clubs that were a lot some have been released the Romanian League is not actually in

season at the minute it's in their preseason obviously there were a few players that I know

over there as well got they're they're prepping but they're also in two foot of snow and then

so they've got no league game on there's players without a club there's new players coming in

they they will they're trying to build something it's just again it's another nation that doesn't

um it's not their first sport and that's the hard but like until you've got the financials

around it the Romanian League is gathering pace with the obviously uh Freddie Burns got there

and started to say Freddie Burns also has league yeah so you've got Freddie over there with uh

obviously I had Adam Bernie on hit they've they've gone over there and they're like it's it's

gathering like there is a lot behind it and the fans are passionate and but again it comes down to

money and Romania haven't got I don't think they're one of those nations with a lot around it as well

they haven't got a development squad underneath from too much that I've seen like it all it all comes

together but the gaffer over there David seems to have got it it right in a tournament tournament

and I think the one-off games I don't think they're that they don't switch on for I don't think

they're that fast but put them into a tournament and they'll grow into a tournament that's how I see

and I think they'll do they'll surprise some people depends on the draw on obviously with

with with with the the World Cup obviously how it's gone I think the draws potentially hampered

Spain but other teams will flourish from it so it'd be fun well yeah and speaking of the World

Cup you know working on down to Belgium who was so nearly at the World Cup and who knows you know

with with what's going on with Georgia maybe they'll get a last minute reprieve but fifth again

I was keeping half an hour on their results I didn't see them really do anything that I was

unexpected when when you consider why I saw them nearly topple Samoa in in November yeah um

just flattered to deceive a little bit Belgium your little one grew three inches overnight adorable

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various allocation supplies last uh they they they they they've also got new players coming in they've

also missing uh uh is it mathew remu the player who led the players to lose mate he was there for

a well cut qualifier and he he could have basically played by himself loads amazing he was unreal

like and but he they did not have him for any of this tournament they had his brother Florian who

done really well as well don't don't get me wrong but he's he is a superstar for Belgium rugby like

he's a different but they're also Belgium are very much like Romania they can they build into a tournament

they started a bit poorly and they got they didn't start great in the qualifiers as well like they

built into that but they love a red card they're real disciplined they're they play on the edge

and like some of the some of the games they had as well they were playing they're in literally a

quagmire the pitches were horrendous this tournament like one of them was like literally the

rain was standing all over the pitch that and uh all they had to do was literally just

driving malt that's all they could do because the weather was so bad so they had the weather on

their side they were able to play that they played it well but when they switched it on and they

got remu available like they are they are a very exciting side and they they've got big plans as

well like for a lot of people that I speak to they've they've got big plans and they've sort of

incorporating it into the French leagues a lot so they've got players that are sort of mixed

between the two and clubs that are obviously picking up their players and yeah it's it's exciting

time for Belgium I think it would have been better if they got to the World Cup I think that would have

been an amazing element for them just to really drive on with but they got they got fifth and they

they sort of kept their spot where they are in rugby Europe but they've got to keep one eye

looking over the shoulder because if they let it slip they could end up like other teams around them

well speaking of which Netherlands another team where a lot of people were excited a couple of

years ago about where Dutch rugby might or might not be going again they're not amazing results I

think what do they finish seventh in the end seven so they they've really put one on on spain in

the first one they were literally just playing fast expensive rugby but there is more of a back

story so obviously they've got a new they've got the new gaffer and charge Brian Eason

who's come in and tried to build an identity so they've he's come in and the focus is

World Cup 2031 okay so a lot of the old guard retired so there's a lot of players retired

they've got an average age of 22 throughout the story wow wow so they've got an average age of 22

they've got players that they had 18 new captain players for this tournament alone new

new captain obviously meets vote votes as well really top really nice lads really great group

their lads as well they've got a great group of coaches there they've got a real big vision

and a big plan of what's going ahead and it was so exciting to be around them when I speak to

them I'll speak to Brian a few times and when I'll speak into the lads at the tournament I was

like they were like it's it's a bigger bigger plan and and the federation have bought into it there's

a bigger vision and there was elements and glimpses of what they could become and then they managed

to put it all on Germany obviously Germany getting beaten 76-7 they were Germany were losing 69

nil with about three minutes to go Germany got to try it was the biggest cheer of the day and then

vksmio just obviously was over at card if met at the minute just ghosted phones called

never trial like they've got they've got some serious talent in the future and it's not it's not a

now project it's a it's a future project so the results did not flatter what they've got going

on there okay okay and then moving on down I don't have tons to say on Switzerland I'm more

kind of skipping on to Germany Germany now relegated to the trophy I think it's cool yeah yeah

down to the trophy so they are obviously in full rebuild there well you say they're on they're in

rebuild sorry since you're on mate is that is that not it for German for German rugby is that not

no so the the the gaffer's left that was his last gaming charge after the Netherlands there's

a few players that said they're retiring there was a lot of new players blooded in within that squad

as well there's a lot of recruitment going on rugby in Germany on instagram and x and stuff

like that I speak to him quite often so he's kind of become a bit of a scout so they're looking at

new players across Europe there was a lot of players that come in from England and there's a

well-scaling exactly that so they're calling players in there's a couple of players that are

scouting within Spain that have got like German heritage etc so there is a vision so the trophy

the trophy's not the end for Germany it's just they've got to make sure they don't cascade down

because the teams in the trophy they ain't messing about at a minute obviously we've got

checher at the top Poland given chase Sweden in full strength and it's there it's not that's not

based it's as opposed to a two-year cycle for motion but relegations each year so if you

slip out of it like you could not if you don't hit the ground running they run the risk you're

getting dropped out of that and into the conference below so they've got to really hit the ground

running but again it's down to money they haven't got the money again there's no financial

clout within trying to get into training camps they weren't able to get any friendly because

well they did have friendly but it wasn't against like actual international teams it was against

other clubs and there's no travel budget and then you can't try to camps and a lot

later having to fly in on a Thursday for a training camp because obviously they got their job

they can't get away from their job because they can't get paid for this and yeah until the

financial element is resolved that will kind of just stay as is within Germany.

Wow okay so I guess last question then mate we've rattled through this um

what does what does the future hold for rugby Europe with Georgia you know that's

pressing you could the button say that Georgia are out of it does that does that hurt rugby Europe

or does that in a funny way make it 10 times more exciting. Well so there is discussions of

that potentially they want to drop it down to six nations again anyway so they want to try

and reduce it from the eight to the six um I think this tournament probably made that conversation

a little bit harder some people say they weren't as impressed by the tournament I think it

was more impressive than last year because teams were able to anyone could be anyone in this tournament

I think it strengthened the resolve of rugby Europe but Switzerland were probably the team of

the tournament in my opinion from where they were at the start of last tournament to where they

become now they've they've strengthens gathered sort of got new players in from different regions

with a player base of less than five thousand within Switzerland start they've got an exceptional

player pool and what they've managed to recruit and who they've managed to bring in the players

like Jules Portia that's doing who's playing at 10 that literally pulling the strings they they could

have fell apart Cyril Lin was their main guy last year brought him in they either retired and

they've managed to fill the gap very well and I I think if Georgic drop which I think is potentially

going to happen I think well rugby will make an example of this to hide up what's potentially

going on in South Africa um oh disclaimer I hope most of this I don't have anything to stop watching

right now um but obviously even then there's proven facts about the reduced juice

juice testing across rugby so there's I think there's a bigger issue that rugby's got a

result there and I think this is potentially they're going to be used as a scapegoat as well this

probably a big rug and a sweep up moment but hopefully it's not um but I think that will play

into the six teams either with the new nations cup model as well that as well rugby's big sticky

plaster the rugby Europe super cup is also funded by world rugby so until that becomes a success

it's an endless part of money potentially that's until rugby gets out the same way as well we've

got fine away commercialising the game to showcase this sort of hidden gems and there's so many

opportunities but rugby Europe we'll only get stronger with or without Georgia like they just need

to make sure that that doesn't fall back on them like that that it wasn't anything to do with

their involvement if that comes in that's a whole different kettle of fish again.

Rugby Europe have signed agreements with France as well so for the next three years to help

strengthen their governance and their collaboration with French clubs and the French system as well

so that can only improve 48 49 nations now, Djibouta obviously been added Greece have been added

there's just such a buzz within rugby Europe and that pinnacle as well with the championships

whether it's six or eight teams I really enjoyed the finals day model now I think if we were

able to do that in each country so the games of that weekend's all played so first weekend's

all in Amsterdam next one's in Belgium next one's in down in Romania just to showcase these places

that we like get everyone there create a party atmosphere like a like a sevens weekend do it over a

weekend you've got two games in the Saturday two games on the Sunday we're going to go to Bucharest

right we're going to go and do via the lit we're going to go and do Lisbon we're going to go and do

this that I think that's potentially the next I know it will sort of reduce revenue for certain

nations but playing one game here two games there like it doesn't it's harder for teams to get to

I think if we used it as a different model I think it might be able to make it easier for

teams and players and fans to get to a whole weekend of rugby Europe yeah well that's fantastic

mate so thank you so much for educating us I feel educated and I'm sure everybody who's listening

does just finish up by telling us where we can find your content what have you got coming up

yeah so rugby TTL on Instagram YouTube we're predominantly going to be trying to target onto

YouTube and stuff we've got some plans for some livestream stuff coming up for next season to

hopefully showcase more rugby Europe we've got podcast interviews we've got Josh Naveed he's

lined up to come on we've got Maricol Corobetti Nicolai Matawalu we've got a few few bigger names

coming on in the in the coming week so and then just the rest of it we've been running about

the six nations which is probably the best six nations I've seen in decades we've been running

about that how shit we are at fantasy so if you want a bit of banner that talks about rugby Europe

six nations grassroots rugby is obviously up on our big list Spanish rugby is obviously

on my big list so yeah rugby TTL we're on pretty much every platform YouTube obviously

Instagram's where most of it is but yeah just come come say hello and tell me I'm wrong

it's no worries they usually get that as well yeah absolutely tell tell me I'm wrong as well

just comment just comment anything I don't mind anyway if you've gotten all the way to the end you

might consider helping the channel a little bit more by getting membership people watching on

YouTube you can see the join button down below if you click that you'll get access to weekly bonus

videos you not only be helping out me a little bit more financially but you'll get all that extra

content and I'll tell you secret some of those videos are my favorites and make because it's just

me and you and get to have a bit of fun so that just leads me to say thank you so much to Karl

Dawson for joining me for this fascinating earth shifting review of rugby Europe with bombshell after

bombshell yeah yeah I'll cite the few for you mate and thank you terribly for watching enjoy

your rugby and I hope that everybody's team wins cheers you saw the game winning play once but

have to replay it three times on the way back to the hotel because some moments don't end at the

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