Throwback Thursday: Dr. Tom Horn - Dominionism (Part 3)

0:00Hello Gonna step up to the microphone Welcome to PID Radio, I'm Derek Gilbert. And I'm Sharon Gilbert and welcome to the Vancouver everybody. It is just about 8 o'clock on March 16th of 2006 and that is 0200, Greenwich Mean Time. And tomorrow would be St. Patrick's Day. Well, it's already St. Patrick's Day over in Ireland. Yes. I think Patty Heron is a Patty O'Haren.

1:02Celebrating with a Guinness performance. Yes, very possibly, very possibly. He was a guest of Tom Horn on the Q-Files tonight and entertaining as always. And we're looking forward to when that documentary based on the Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse makes it onto the screen. I know that's going to be quite a show to watch. And of course, they did it in a secular and Christian version. So I want to see both to see what the difference is. Speaking of St. Patty's Day, it can be kind of a difficult time this year because it happens to fall on a Friday during a lint. What do you do if you're Roman Catholic and you want corn beef with your cabbage? Look, that's a tough one because maintenance Friday, what do you do? That's right. Well, here in St. Louis Archbishop Burke and Bishop Braxton over in Belville have issued special dispensations. So if you live in our area and you're Roman Catholic, you're cool for tomorrow as long as you abstain from meat another day next week or perform another penance or something.

2:04That's my understanding. This is quite honestly. My understanding is you don't necessarily have to give something up during lint. You can perform extra services or works or something. Yeah. But Meadless Friday was one of the things I was Roman Catholic for a while. I had converting. No. I'm glad you're not. Yeah. Me too. I actually get into the Bible. I like meat on Friday. And I like meat on Fridays too. And that was one of the things I never quite understood. It was never adequately explained to me. But again, in St. Louis and a few other areas around the country, the local bishops and archbishop have given special dispensations so you can enjoy the cabbage with a little beef on the side. So can you enjoy a hot dog if you're at the game and in St. Louis? Well, if you're a bomb-sniffing dog, apparently not, because it disrupts everything. I think the dog was hungry, personally. I think so too. I want a hot dog and I want one now. Talk about March Madness. One of the things. I didn't want to master it on it, because apparently he alerted on one of the containers of a condiment container.

3:06It's a condiment of doom. Oh, one of the first around NCAA basketball games. And of course, guys running tournament games were really upset today because they're sitting there with their little grids and charts. One of our guys at the office runs a pool through his local watering hole and he's got a lot of people counting on him for information and he's getting a little frazzled because the game in San Diego was delayed for an hour and a half while they checked out the hot dog car. Well, at least he was not standing outside the car, Serena, waiting to get in. That's true. That's true. There was nothing because Homeland Security has said that this is something that might be disrupted by a terrorist who wanted to hit a lot of people at once. And you don't want to be a terrorist when it comes to coming up against the United States. Otherwise, it will swarm all over you. Yeah. You know, you said today that Operation Swarmer had been launched and I thought you were talking about a return of the termites that we treated for a couple of years ago.

4:08Oh, no. Thankfully, they haven't shown up again, but led by a polyon. Now, American and Iraqi troops launched the largest air assault since the invasion of Iraq three years ago to apparently take out some insurgent strongholds north of Baghdad. Now, I don't know, maybe it's me, but three years in, three years in. We're launching now the largest aerial assault of the entire campaign. I don't know. It's like a parade in the air. I can't figure out what the deal is. Is that why we sent the C-130s over there? I don't know. The aerial gunships, yeah. I don't know. 1500 troops, over 200 tactical vehicles and more than 50 aircraft, maybe just a show of force. That's what it looked like to me because again, I was doing something else in the background today. So I just had Fox on in the background, sorry, and I think I heard someone that they

5:09were interviewing on the ground, they're in Iraq saying, well, no, there's nothing going on here on the ground. In other words, there were no boots on the ground going from house to house. There was no change in the way the policing of the area was done, but I don't know. I don't even know if they were shooting at anything. Fly over. Well, we'll keep an eye on that and see what we can bring to the table for tomorrow. A little closer to home, speaking of military maneuvers, the United States, and this is for being reported by a Canadian media outlet, by the way, is now arming Coast Guard vessels on the Great Lakes for the first time since the War of 1812. Hey, look, those Lake monsters are evil, but some Lake Champlain, we have that Lake monster. Oh, well, they're probably like monsters in the Great Lakes too. It would be great like monsters. That's right. Yeah, they finally found what brought down the Edmund Fitzgerald. Well, seriously, the Coast Guard vessels on the Great Lakes have not been armed since

6:15a treaty that formalized the peace following the War of 1812. And our 11 Coast Guard cutters are now being armed with 7.62 millimeter machine guns that can fire up to 600 rounds per minute. Now, 7.62 millimeter bullet is not a large caliber bullet. I mean, that's less than, you know, it's like a 22 caliber roughly. That's pretty small. Yeah, it's dear rifle caliber, but 600 of those bullets come in as you in a minute, you know, 10 per second. That's a lot of lead. So they've been conducting some live fire drills up near St. Marie, Ontario, but spokesman for the Coast Guard said that these machine guns will be mounted, will be below decks and will only be mounted on deck when they are needed. Well, at least it's the Coast Guard and not a dime corp up there with guns. Yeah. We've been talking about the use of contractors, quote, unquote, contractors to patrol the streets of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast following the disaster for a cane Katrina.

7:21But apparently one of the the parishes down there, St. Bernard Parish is looking at using dime corp, putting dime corp on permanent patrol down there. And apparently it's because they are so strapped for cash that their only option appears to be to turn to FEMA and have FEMA pay dime corp to come in and patrol in place of police. You and I were talking about this a few minutes ago and I still am trying to figure out what happened to the billions of dollars that were sent down there and ostensibly part of that money was to help with policing problems to pay the local police in different parishes. So I assume they've run out of money or there's a problem getting it. But by having FEMA take care of it, FEMA is dictating who's doing it. Who's doing it? Right. And I'll tell you what, I don't like this because one of the complaints against the use of dime corp and black water and whack and hut guards in Iraq is that and this is coming

8:22from military guys that they don't have the same accountability as civil servants, as people who are on the government payroll directly in other words, if a soldier does something in Iraq, if a police officer does something in New Orleans or in one of the parishes, they have to answer to the government, they have to answer to a superior. If however, you've got a mercenary in Iraq who shoots somebody and as we recall, there was a story that came out in the British press a while back about guys who were apparently going on joy rides and just shooting up civilians for fun. Have we heard anything about them being punished or prosecuted? They don't have the same chain of command, the same accountability. And that's what concerns me about putting paid private contracting firms on patrol to guard against, to guard us. Let's talk about what they get paid. It's a whole lot more than a deputy.

9:24Right. What are? Yeah. $950 per day. At least that's what, that's what the company gets paid. Now I don't know if the guys actually get paid the whole 950, I suspect not. But still, I think they're going to earn a whole lot more than $18,000 to $30,000, which is what the law enforcement officers in Bernard Parrish earn. Right. Which means they will likely find a whole lot of people ready to line up and go to work for Dinecorp or Blackwater. They're happy to line up and go to work for them and they don't necessarily have the well-training, temperament, demeanor, experience, background. Exactly. Yeah. And that's the whole point. This is something that is, this may be the beginning of a trend. We've talked before about the outsourcing of government functions to private contractors and not just in terms of security, but in terms of, in some cases, just basic services.

10:28This may be the beginning of a trend. Local government runs out of funds for one reason or another, in this case it was a natural disaster. Turns to the federal government, which has an unlimited source of funds, allegedly, which is the rest of us. And they hire out a private contractor. Of course, the guy who gets the contract, the guy who owns the company, getting the contract is usually connected to someone in the government in some way. So we will see, but I predict over the next 10 years or so, we will see more and more cases like this. Most sadly, well, if I were living in St. Bernard's parish right now, I would not be happy about this. I'd be getting out of dodge. Hey, speaking of, well, authority figures who perhaps overstepped their, their bounds, the story that we reported on a watchroom magazine a few weeks ago about the, the young man who was involved in a beating at a boot camp in down in Florida, his parents insisted on a second autopsy. And I think, praise God, they did because they, the results of that have shown that sickle

11:31cell anemia did not contribute to his death, the name of the shape of form. He was beaten to death. Right. No. And you were right on when that first report came out. And this was the official coroner's report that blinged it on natural causes. So clearly, the official coroner was trying to cover it up. I mean, there's no other way to say it. Yeah. I mean, anyone with a brain, with any knowledge of human physiology, of course, you've got a degree in, in biology, so you're a little bit understanding that to look at the video and realize his kid had been beaten to death. Well, exactly. That's, that's my point is that with the degree in biology, it's a little easier to see that the sickle cell anemia couldn't possibly have been the cause. But you're right. When you see the video that's been released, it's pretty clear that anemia didn't have anything to do with it. And it's despicable and reprehensible that the official coroner there would try to cover this up and just, you know, sweep this under the rug. So, hopefully those who were responsible for this will be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

12:32Well, lots of things from what you're magazine today, but you know what, this interview that you did with Tom Horn, I think we just need to go to part three on that because there are so many things that he was talking about that I don't think there's anything in the news today that trumps it. So I think we should go right to part three of the interview you did with Tom Horn. Tom, yesterday you mentioned a phrase that really caught my attention and I want to expand on this and get into your analysis of dominionism and why it's a heresy. You said that it would provide the dormant for the appearance of the antichrist. The Christians are being duped into welcoming the antichrist with open arms basically, or did I misunderstand? No, you understood me completely. Think back to the darkest days of the inquisition, other times in history where there has been this marriage between politics and religion. And I mean think of the worst times, Thomas, you know, Torcamada, people like that who's

13:37cruelty, their fanaticism actually pretended to be the service of religion. Well, dominionism in my opinion satisfies the need of providing a platform for the antichrist because when you read the book of Revelation, it becomes obvious that antichrist is going to come to power under a marriage of political and religious authority. You have the politician, the antichrist who's supported by the religious false prophet who wins allegiance to the political side from the global church community. And there, people need to understand that very soon, now this of course is my opinion. But I believe, and I think most people right now believe, I'm in fact, I think even non-believers believe that in the very near future, a man, a mystical man of superior intellect and

14:44wit and charm and diplomacy is going to emerge on the world scene as a savior. This guy is going to seem to possess a transcendent kind of wisdom that has escaped everybody else. He's going to solve the earth's problems. He's going to solve all of these perplexing issues that the answers of which have escaped the rest of us. His popularity, I think, is going to be completely widespread, young, old, religious, non-religious, male, female. He is going to be the talk of the town, he's going to be being interviewed by everybody except you. You know, everybody's going to be covering this guy's movements. In every human way, he is going to appeal to the best ideas of society. The problem is he's a political figure and his profound comprehension and irresistible presence is the result of an invisible network of thousands of years of collective knowledge.

15:50This is a guy who is going to be the embodiment of a very old, we wrote about him in our book The Aramon Gate, a super-intelligent spirit. Just like Jesus was the seat of the woman, this guy is going to be the seed of the serpent, but the broad masses of the world are not going to recognize him as the beast. And this guy is going to be empowered by religious dominionism. And with his brother, with his imperious decree, he is going to facilitate this one world government, his universal religion, this global socialism that we've been talking about for so long. And everybody that refuses that new world order eventually are going to be imprisoned and eventually they're going to be destroyed. It wasn't that many years ago when, well, in fact, during the 1980s, since we've been

16:53talking about the 1980s and the rise of dominionism, it was during the 1980s that then President George Bush, who I voted for, pronounced over national television that a new world order had arrived. And of course, he was talking about the war with Kuwait and all of that. But following that announcement, man, people just started piling up. Political figures, religious figures, everybody jumped on the rhetoric at aim at implementing the goals of a new world order. Well, if people haven't heard anything else that I've said, I hope that they can hear this third installment. Not the core of an imminent conspiracy. There is a leader of indescribable brutality that's about to appear. This guy is going to make the combined depravities of Antiochus Epiphanies, Hitler, Stalin,

17:55Gingaskhan, all of them look like P.W. Herman's playhouse. The Bible says he's going to raise his fist, speaking great things and blasphemy against God, blasphemy, his name. And he is going to cause. Now this is important because we're talking about dominionism. He is going to cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed, Revelation 13. Notice Derek that this guy has the global political authority to impose a blanket death sentence. He has the authority to do that. That's a political or fully authority. But now, he has this religious interest, it isn't just politics, he's interested in who people worship. Right. Now, the interesting thing to me is that many who are part of this dominionist belief system

19:02would say in response to what you just said. I wouldn't go along with that because I would see that that was wrong and I wouldn't worship the image of the beast. Do you think that they'll be fooled? Well, I believe that many of them will, I look, I know this on the practical level. I've been doing consulting work. I don't want to mention the domination, but it is one of the largest evangelical denominations in the world, very much given to the dominionist theology. I've been doing consulting work for them on the side for the last decade. I've done, well, look, I was given the responsibility to try to double the revenue coming into one of their businesses. Not only did I double it, I quadrupled their revenue in four years.

20:03I raised $370,000 in donated revenue. I built $7 million according to their own insurance company of improvements to their capital properties. I took their business, which was valued at about $5 million, and today is valued now at over $30 million. I did that with a small group of, depending on the season, of anywhere from 10 to 35 staff who were working directly for me. I am the executive director of that policy board that's overseeing this project. Now, I said all that to say this, I've been doing that for eight years. Recently, there was a landslide, the whole side of the mountain fell down onto the property. Luckily, it hit an older part of the property, but it probably did at least $150,000 of capital

21:05damage, not mentioning the fact that we had to shut down for a little while, so we had some operating losses. I don't want to get just completely tied up in that story, but here's my point. In that happen, I contacted the state headquarters for this organization, and I sent a memo from the executive director to 230 churches who owned this operation, 230 churches. I asked that they would send some help up to my staff to be able to help that staff digging out from literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tons of debris that came down off the side of this mountain. Ten days later, I waited and waited. We sent a memo to every church, to every pastor, to the state headquarters, to every department of the state headquarters. We picked up the phone and called them and said, please send volunteers to help us with digging out this facility that's owned by you.

22:06Ten days later, Derek, there had not been one call, not one person, not one soul, including nobody from the state office. And finally, I called the state headquarters and I talked to the state superintendent, and I told him that I feared that the organization is becoming Luciferian, in that they want what they want when they want it, but when the shoe is on the other foot, they have no interest in you whatsoever. And let me tell you something, when Jesus Christ comes to this earth, read the judgment seat of Christ. I want everybody to read the judgment seat of Christ, because he separates the sheep from the goats and he says, I was hungry and you gave me meat, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and imprisoned and you visited me. And all of his judgment had to do with a moment in time when a believer had a need, another believer who in his opinion was one of the sheep.

23:09And minister to that person on an interpersonal level. All these other people didn't know the interesting what they say, but didn't we do great and mighty dominion of things in your name? And he says, I never knew you. I never knew you. Ever. So what I'm saying to people is, it's one thing, of course, to be politically entosed. There's nothing wrong with it, but it is. It is, on the dominionist level, ultimately, a problematic situation that can lead to megalomania, people who would force their righteousness on others, and yet, when given the opportunity to reciprocate in kindness, you can't find them. That's Luciferium. And the whole idea that we could take over our courts and impose our morality on other people.

24:10While that sounds, I guess, to some people it sounds noble or at least to control freaks, it goes against the gentle nature of Christ. Well, yeah, he said flat out that the Gentiles, the lords of the Gentiles rule over their fellow men, but it is not to be so among you. And we seem to have forgotten that somewhere along the way. It goes against premoral agency too, a line that God himself won't cross. It misappropriates the mission of the church, because you cannot legislate morality. Now I think anybody should understand that concept, whereas the preaching of the gospel changes the hearts of men. The disciples turn the world upside down, just preaching, deliberating, gospel message of Christ. Now if you want to know in your church, where should your resources go? Where should your efforts go? Where should your energies go? Paul says the preaching of the Christ is the power of God on the salvation.

25:14That's where your resources, your time, your energy, that's where it ought to go. Now as an American, if you want to vote, that's fine, do it. And when you get done pulling the voting whatever, go back to church and get back involved with what is truly the work, the mission, the great commission of the church of Jesus Christ to preach the gospel of Christ. That's what will change the hearts of people. Laws won't change the hearts of people. History has proven that so many times that I'm getting sick of thinking about it. You're absolutely right about that. And the other thing that really drives me crazy is seeing people who are good, professing Christians, bend over backwards to defend behavior that is so unchristlike that there shouldn't be any question. For example, the torture of prisoners for information, which is being justified as necessary for national security.

26:14And that's just one example. For many others, and I don't want to go into a political discussion, but right is right and wrong is wrong, and it's pretty easy to tell which is which by comparing actions against Scripture. Well, actually there is what you've said is highly appropriate, because we're talking about what dominionism does. It seeks to marriage the political force with the religious community, and it seeks to do so in such a way that that is held out as being the will of God for our lives, but the problem is, it doesn't work, it never did work, it's the antithesis of the New Testament story, it's the antithesis of the gospel. And actually, it even brings a curse, I think, on those who understand it and then continue to knowingly promote it, because Paul said, if you preach another gospel, if you preach a gospel other than that that you have received, anybody that does that, let them be anathema

27:19maranatha, let them be accursed at the coming of Christ, and you know why? Because dominionism outright is Luciferium, in that it seeks to rule as God would rule. To stand in the place of God, that's what Lucifer wanted to do. Exactly. I, huh? Exactly, that's, yeah. Pothiosis become a God oneself. And so, look, I don't want anybody to get mad at me, but I think a quote here from Pat Robertson's Dominionist Manual, the Kingdom, the Secret Kingdom, is appropriate, because I want people to know I'm not making this stuff up, I want them to know, I think I want them to know, the heartbeat behind this movement, and on page 201, they can read this himself of the Secret Kingdom, Pat Robertson puts words in the mouth of God, now that's no new revelation, does that often?

28:20When he's not trying to assassinate somebody, he said this, page 201, he said, it is clear that God is saying, I gave man dominion over the earth, but he lost it. Now, I desire mature sons, he's speaking in place of God. I desire mature sons and daughters, who will, in my name, exercise dominion over the earth, and will subdue Satan, the unruly, and the rebellious, take back my world from those who would loot it and abuse it, rule as I would, in quote, well, okay, you know, Pat Robertson wants to take the world back from Satan, okay, that's fine, even though the scripture tells us that the world is under his dominion, but who's the unruly,

29:27and who's the rebellious? Well, if you follow dominionism at all, those are the people who do not follow the law, as it is set down by this select group, this hierarchy of religious leaders who determine for the rest of us what is and is not the will of God, now, this is that statement by the way, you know, rule the world as I would rule it, was confirmed as far as what he met by that, and this is easy for anybody to find in 1986 on the 700 Club, by the way, I was on the 700 Club, but I was almost kinsley, you know, this is his distance now, but in any case, and Robertson said this, and this is in the archives, May 1, 1986, he says, God's plan is for his people, ladies and gentlemen, to take dominion, what is dominion?

30:33Well dominion is Lordship, he wants his people to reign and rule with him, but he's waiting for us to extend his dominion, in quote, and then he pretends to speak for God again and he says this quote, and the Lord says, I'm going to let you redeem society, now I want to finish this quote in a minute, but think about that, the Lord says, I'm going to let you redeem society, Robert, when did that happen, that, well again, that's a different gospel than the one I'm familiar with. Yeah, I mean, when did that happen? I didn't know that happened. I mean, I thought when Jesus came, that was the New Testament. Yeah, exactly. He evidently was, well, okay, anyway, let me go back to my quote, I'm going to let you redeem society. There'll be a reformation. We are not going to stand for those coercive

31:35utopians in the Supreme Court and in Washington ruling over us anymore. We're not going to stand for it. We are going to say, we want freedom in this country and we want power in quotes. That's right. We're going to put our own utopians in power. So what's the bottom line? How much time do we got? Oh, a couple minutes here, but we're flexible. We don't have any hard. Okay, couple minutes. Let me bring it to an end that dominionism. It turns the concept of the invisible and spiritual kingdom of God into a literal political empire. That is to be established on earth and by force, if necessary, starting with the United States of America. Forgetting that Jesus said, my kingdom's not of this world. The framers of dominionism have a gospel whose purpose is to inspire Christians to enter politics

32:36and execute a world domination, basically, so that Jesus can return to an earth prepared for his earthly rule by his faithful regions. Now, in my opinion, that's not only heresy, but it's a roadmap to an anti-Christ kingdom that, in my opinion, may be even now being built. And if we talk about this, again, ever in the future, Derek, or if somebody wants to research this material, the next step in what you and I have talked about would be to start looking at the doctrines of Macavilla, Leo Strauss, of course, the current administration, because they'll start finding out that in the halls of academia, which has led to those who are now in power, that there is a doctrine that operates hand in hand with dominionism,

33:44and it's a scary doctrine, Derek. And ultimately, it will lead to the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, where those who are under the altar of God in the kingdom of heaven have been beheaded because of their testimony, because of their willingness to follow Christ in spite of what world government tells them they must or must not do. Yep. There are days coming that would cause men's hearts to fail within their chests, but we know that he has seen all of this coming and has warned us in his word, and the comfort, the bedrock, on which we can stand, is knowing that our futures are secure. Regardless of what happens in this plane of existence in the years ahead, we know that ultimately the victory's already been secured, and we just wait to see how it's all going to play out. Well, that's exactly right. And so, like I said, to take the next step, you got

34:53to go deeper down the rabbit hole. Well, Tom, we appreciate your analysis and your insight into a topic that I think many Christians aren't even aware of. I know I'm coming late to the party on this, and that's why I was so anxious to talk to you about this after we heard your interview with Steve Coil a couple of weeks back. So, Tom Horn, the editor of Raider's News Update, a daily read for us, should be for you as well, and author with his wife, Nita, of the excellent novelty arm on gate. Tom, thank you for being our guest again on PID radio, and I hope we can do it again soon. Well, thank you, Derek, and by the way, not only Raider's News Update, but good to watch your magazine everything. That's the topic that started a lot of talk at the Peering and the Darkness Forum, and we invite you to join in and share your thoughts about Dominionism, and whether this particular strain of Christian theology is, as Tom believes it is, and we tend to agree, a borderline heresy or leading Christians astray by drawing

35:56them into what amounts to a cult of power, a cult based on political power, rather than focusing on what we were commanded in the Great Commission by Jesus Christ. His last instructions practically, go out and preach the gospel to the ends of the earth. He didn't say, do it through political action committees. Well, honey, that was a great interview, and you know what? It's a good way to start out your number two here at PID radio. If you want to send us a note, we'd sure love to hear from you. It's radio at peering into darkness.com. And we've got a new URI, or URL, for the domain. If you want to check the show notes for any of the broadcasts, any of the podcasts, you can now go directly to pidradio.com. Yeah, you don't have to go to peering into darkness.com slash radio, which takes a little bit longer to say pidradio.com. There you go. You're going to find the same page either way, but we tried to make it a little simpler for you by getting that URL. So send us your comments, and we, you will wrap up the week's worth of news tomorrow.

36:59Next week, we bring you an interview with real live paranormal investigators. Fellas, you may actually have seen on the sci-fi channels series Ghost Hunters. Yeah, in fact, they were on their last night. Yeah. The Johnson Brothers. Right. Another set of twins. We've already got frog brothers. We're going to have to find another, you know, that's right. Yeah. John's bringing about that. Yeah. In New England, anomalies research, and we will talk with them over the weekend. It will bring you that interview next week. Yeah. If you want to check them out in advance, it's NEAR dot S five, the number five S five dot com dot org dot com. So NEAR dot S number five dot com. We'll put a link to that show notes. Right. Well, until tomorrow, I'm Derek Gilbert. I'm sharing Gilbert. Have a wonderful evening, everybody.