E115 - Harvard, the Navy, and the COVID Mandate (How I Lost Faith in Every Expert)

0:00do not depend on the government to help you. Do it yourself. You need to understand this. You need to be an expert in these things. The government can only make something worse, and so never rely on them for your financial advice or your health advice. I look at what most people think financial planning is. And I'm like, you're so brainwashed that you think this is effective in any way. I'll never be able to relate. We'll never have a conversation. We'll never have common ground. But I'm like, how do you think this makes sense? And that's how I view financial advice now. I think what this concept and the product provides you that is the most valuable is... You're listening to Remnant Finance. The show that brings you unfiltered takes on unconventional strategies to sever your dependence from the banking industry and Wall Street. We're Brian and Hans. Military pilots turn economic insurrection as an impudent bank in practitioners. We strive to keep prosperity simple. We've learned that the most important aspect of your personal financial journey is the one that is almost entirely ignored by the conventional model, the process

1:03of banking. Our goal is to teach you how to build a strong financial foundation, growing, leveraging and protecting your capital while optimizing your financial order of operations so you can live the life you want to live now and in the future. Listen each week as we challenge the status quo and provide uncensored takes on finance, economics and current events now back to the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to Remnant Finance. We've got an interview today that I did on Sean King's podcast that we're going to play for you here. It came out on his podcast last week. Sean is another... is a fellow ABC practitioner at a Florida currently. He's been moving his family to Vietnam pretty soon, which is going to be... which is a really cool way to optimize. He's a big traveler. He's a wife. We had a really fun conversation. We went over my background. We talked about how I got to understanding ABC. My experience with the Navy, which is always just a crazy story. It's a fun story now looking back and very grateful for how COVID played out and how that derailed my aviation career and got me to where I am today. If you've been listening from the

2:09beginning pretty early on, maybe 10 episodes in. Brian and I did back-to-back bio episodes. So I might be rehashing that for some of y'all, but it's a pretty crazy story that I think is hopefully worth listening to. And then we talk about IBC. We talk about parenting. We talk about options trading. We had a really fun conversation. I think it went about two hours or so. So it's a long one. But it was a great conversation. Sean is a fantastic dude and everybody check out his work as well. We're going to start off with a little bit of just kind of our macro overview. This is actually a big week. So first week is September. We are now coming up on the end of summer. Though it does not feel like it here in San Diego. It's been, I know most people around the country are going to roll their eyes. But it's been really hot here in San Diego for what we're used to. And surprisingly humid, which we never have humidity here. So that we had any felt very noticeable. Um, yeah. So a big week, the, our last weekend or end of last week, we had Jackson Hole. That is the Fed's annual monetary policy symposium. It's kind of a who's who of central bankers around

3:12the world. And so it's a big deal in the economic world. And we've, we've been watching as Kevin Worsh's dismantled the forward guidance mechanism. Remember, forward guidance is the idea that the Fed states its intentions or just gives a few breadcrumbs and financial analysts follow it, follow these breadcrumbs and make assumptions and the market changes their behavior based on what they're trying to do. So we've talked about this quite a bit in the last few weeks. But just remember that by, by saying something they are thinking about doing, they can get the market to respond accordingly and do the work for them. That's four guides. Drum Powell basically just did everything by forward guidance. I mean, it was, it was the chatty as Fed president, I think, and maybe ever. Um, but it was always giving these breadcrumbs to the market to try to steer behavior. Kevin Worsh has been explicit that he's not going to do that. Um, and it, you know, we're not far enough in to realize if that's kind of a ruse or if that's actually how he's doing it. But so far, all indications point to that, the idea that he's not interested in forward guidance and he confirmed that at Jackson Hole. So there was a lot of attention on Worsh's speech, which is always kind of like

4:15the keynote speech at the Jackson Hole financial, you know, world monetary policy symposium. Um, is on the, the chairman of the Fedors or speech. Now they're always kind of boring because it's been pretty much the same for the last 15 years apart from a few crises here and there. It's been pretty consistent. And we're just going to keep, you know, America wants things and we don't want to pay for them. So we're just going to create the money to do that. I mean, that's just been status quo for as long as we've all been, I'm pretty much alive for most of the most of us, but at least certainly as long as we've been adults participating in the market, anyone listening to this for as long as you've been an active participant in the market, that has been how, how it's, how it goes. And so, hasn't always been like that. It doesn't need to be that we want things and therefore we get them and we don't pay for them, but that's the privilege we have of being this world reserve currency. Or, you know, again, we kind of think we're living on borrowed time, but it's a very long runway that we have left, I believe, even though we're starting to kind of feel uncomfortable about the numbers, but back to Worsh. So August 28 was his speech there and he was, he aggressively used the

5:15word inflation and he hammered home 2% is their target. And so 3.7 is what the current PCE is. So he's basically saying we are way above on inflation. Recently, depending who you listen to, Lissa, hey, if inflation's been cooling, but that just means it's increasing out of slower pace, but still increasing from an already extremely obscene, high level. Right. So it's not like prices are going to come down. There's no chance prices are coming down. It's just they're, they're going up slower. And in their guidance, like they want 2% growth, that is the central bankers target. And that kind of, uh, you can trace back how that came to be that 2% is the goal, but they believe that economic expansion requires inflation and they think 2% is healthy. Now we don't think that's healthy. That's not sound monetary theory, but that's the goal. And the fact that inflation PCE year over year right now is 3.7%. They're close to double that target there. And so the market took that as an indication of saying, Hey, we need to tighten things up. I we need to raise rates. So before the meeting, we had about 35% chance of a rate height in September. The next ones, I think 15th or 16th.

6:20So mid month is the next scheduled fed rate decision announcement. And there was only about a 35% chance that they were actually going to hike. I think the expectations were generally that it would stay flat for the rest of the year. They wouldn't, they certainly wouldn't lower it. They can't do that. Um, but the question was, are they going to hike it? And so I think right now it's now up to 60% that they're going to hike in September. We'll see. That doesn't mean they are. That just means it's higher probability than it was. And because he was so adamant on anchoring to that two year, or sorry, that 2% inflation target. And he said, I think it's like 35 times that he said inflation. So he was being very clear despite not being, you know, being very much about not giving before guidance. It seemed like this is for guidance that inflation is the dominant narrative that they are tackling right now. Um, and so they really have this kind of like anchored expectations of inflation management. So market reads that as you guys are going to hike rates, therefore stocks go down, right? Um, he was, even though you could view being so aggressive about

7:22stating inflation, aggressive in the sense of by the relative to central banker talking on a press conference, um, it was like, it was very clear what he what he wanted to convey. There was no ambiguity, but he still killed the mechanical forward guidance element of it, um, which is that, that idea that they can steer the market just by talking. He called it a hall of mirrors, right? Which is, which makes sense where it's like, we say what we think might happen. And therefore people react accordingly. And therefore it does happen. And then so it's this kind of feedback loop. And so he's, he's promising to kill that. He says that people should be making decisions ourselves included. We should be making our policy to monetary policy decisions based on indication and data that we're getting from the market. You know, not just that we want to, let's, let's, let's determine what we want and steer it there. Let's actually make decisions that reflect the, what we're seeing on the data. And you investors should be making your own decisions based on market conditions, not what you think we might say. And so this idea that bad news is good for stocks because it means that the Fed might loosen policy. IE,

8:27loosen means lower rates, uh, tightening would mean raising rates. It's like bad economic news, like more people lost jobs means that there's a chance that they might lower rates. And therefore stocks go up. You know, it's backwards. It doesn't make sense. It shouldn't make sense. We shouldn't be living so dependent on words from the Fed. And that's what Chairman Worsh is clearly trying to get rid of. So he's promising acquired or fed that was going to be more purposeful in communications. And they, he specifically said we want to be committed to discipline, not a decision. And I think that, I think that's good. I mean, assuming, assuming we're going to have a Fed, I prefer that. I think that's a much better way to approach it than what we had before. But the interesting thing here is how this contrast with what Treasury did. Remember, fiscal policy is taxation and spending. That's Congress and Treasury. Monetary policy is mostly, is generally interest rates. And that's the central bank or the Fed in our case in America. And so on the fiscal policy side of it, we had the Treasury saying we are going to step in and react. Remember, that was the announcement

9:27that shot Bitcoin off the charts and also had major implications in the market where they said, we're going to take our current existing buyback of off-the-run bonds, i.e. the secondary market where people are sitting on bonds that are hard to trade. We're going to, they have been buying these to the tune of about $2 billion of pop. We're going to double that. So that was the interesting thing, like how much of a reaction there was to an additional $2 billion against the debt of $4.40 trillion, like it was a drop, it wasn't even a drop in the bucket. However, it was the implication of what they were saying, which is we will step in when needed. And the thing is, like they were already doing $2 billion. It's not like this is a new program. This was an ongoing program. They just doubled the size of it. And so, so, best in, and the Treasury said, hey, we're going to buy down the long end in order to keep rates from getting out of control. At the same time that Worsh on the monetary side and the central, and the Federal Reserve, the central bank, he said, we're removing our reaction function while the Treasury revealed a reaction function. As in the Treasury said, we're

10:28going to step in and we're going to let the markets know that if things get too unruly, we will buy, we will double our buying, which by the way, that happens on September night. That hasn't even happened yet. We still has such a reaction on that. And so you can see on the Treasury action that that was effective. It was for guidance. Like this, this is an insignificant amount of money. We're just letting you know, we're going to step in and help here in the future, September night, I believe. And so the fact that one, and it was already existing and two, it hasn't even happened yet. And it still had such a huge impact on Bitcoin and stocks. That is for guidance in my mind. And at the same time, Worsh is saying that he's removing his four guidance. And so they talked about the Fed put the green span put that was the idea that they're not going to let the market fail. The markets goes down. The Fed is going to step in and act as a, you know, the Fed put being the idea that we're going to be insurance on the downside. We want the market to go up. And if it starts to go down, we're going to step in and help. That was what they call the Fed put. Well, now we're seeing a fiscal putter, a Treasury put almost where hey, we're starting to see some trouble here. We're

11:32going to step in and we're going to come to the rescue here. That that's what we're seeing with these the Treasury buying the off the run bonds that are hard to sell in the long term end of the market. At the same time, the monetary side is getting rid of their, their put, right? The Fed puts going away. And so it's interesting to watch what we're going to, what we take away from this like potentially running in two different directions here. But then they're also friends and they're also friends with the president and they all talk and they have the same goals. It's like, it's hard, it's hard to really gauge. It's interesting to watch. But we'll see how it plays out and we'll see if someone's actually just kind of like, if someone's going to blink, if they actually have opposite intentions here, who knows? But the rates, the September rate, heck odds have gone from 35% to 60%. That's a pretty big significant, a pretty significant, you know, data point there. The two year is up 11 Bips or basis points that's basically like 1 100th of a percent. So 100 100 basis points would be a percent. We're talking about 11 basis points. So 0.11 11% of 1%.

12:36And that is, that's a one month high right now. But analysts like Deutsche Bank saying that likely the outcome in September is a rate hike. And so rates are going up. They tried, they tried to kind of step in what the Treasury did and the market didn't bite. So number two, bond yields right now across the world. It is getting intense, you know, by, if you follow, if you follow the bond market, it's getting intense. Japan, 10 years above 3% first time in 30 years. They've always been the cheap anchor of money. And now they're starting to pull up and raise rates here, which is, we're not raised rates, but the market, the bond market is demanding higher rates. So that's like when, and we've talked about the, the, the, the, the Yen Carrey trade, like because Japan has been the cheap money anchor for so long for so many decades, when they make a monetary decision, like if Japan goes from two and a half to three percent on their 10 year, that shouldn't move markets so heavily here. But it does because the whole world realizes our sponge, like our way of, of like getting into cheap

13:39money and then leveraging it for more money, that Yen Carrey trade, that might be drying up here. That's a big implication that Japan's a very big player in the global macroeconomics sphere. US 10 years at 4.8. That's the highest in a couple of years that we've had. We're over five. We're breached 5.3 on the 30 year or 5.27 right now. UK bonds are climbing. Germany's are the highest level since their debt crisis almost 15 years ago. And, and the Y on that, I mean, our debt is now over 40 trillion dollars. That's a significant number. And right now, you know, you're going from at, you're adding trillion almost monthly at this point. So it's just, it's getting, it's getting pretty unruly. And so across the board, countries like, like governments across the world are seeing an increased rate required for them to get the debt issue that they need to issue. So when you're running a global debt Ponzi scheme, I mean, it doesn't, doesn't have to stop anytime soon, but the numbers are getting a little precarious. So just something else to watch here. Other major news

14:44is geopolitical, but it also has economic impact. We're back to kinetic action in straight or hormones to tankers. We're hit by missiles. US air strikes on Iran. And then, Brent is now 95 dollars. That's getting back closer. Creeping towards that $100 mark. Very significant. They're goals up to 4,400. And so yeah, just, just no, no one in sight in hormones. I think that Iran's very content to wait us out. And they will. And that they're winning. And I think there's pretty much a done deal at this point. We don't, best case scenario, as I've said before, is that we get back to where we were in February before we started this war, which I think is now impossible. The straits are going to be owned by Iran indefinitely. Like we've permanently changed the future of our role in the Middle East. And I would argue that's not a bad thing. Certainly not good for the Gulf allies who, who crowded in our corner, and now we're very exposed as we are losing bases there and losing interest in national demand for, for being so heavily invested and involved in the Middle East. So that's another interesting one there too. On that front, Brian, hopefully we're expecting maybe in a month or so. He might be

15:49home, hopefully for good. But, but right now it's all just, it's all just talk. I believe it when I see it, he'll believe it when he sees it. And hopefully he's able to drop retirement paperwork as soon as he's feed dry. I'm back here in the States. We'll see. The labor market is what they call softening as in the jobs added in August is missed the forecast by a lot. I mean, it gets, it's we're trying to make sense logically of how these numbers work, but they were expecting 47,000 private payroll jobs in August. And they got 38,000. So that missing those expectations is a big weakness in the labor market. And so now we've got the hawkish fed, i.e. the hawkish being people think that they're going to increase rates. We've got oil driven inflation. We've got inflation on the, you know, we got this long end of the bond yield that's making everything more expensive. And then we have weakening jobs. And so if we think of what the fed's mandate is, it's it's price stability and employment. And these two things are moving in opposite directions. They

16:54point at opposite responses, right? A weakening job market says you lower rates driving inflation means it says you increase rates, right? And so they only really have the one instrument. And so what are they going to do? Who knows? So we'll see. Anyways, September 9th, that's when that was that we go from two billion to four billion on that treasury. You could call it the treasury, put the operation twists as they called it, which kind of goes back to operations from a long time ago. But that move that spike, if you follow Bitcoin, you know, exactly when some when big moves happen in a huge move and enormous, like I've heard seven sigma deviation happened a week or two ago when they announced doubling of that buyback that starts the hasn't even started the at all. So that starts on September 9th. So anyways, a little bit of macro wrap up there. Hope you guys enjoy the interview with Sean King. Thanks for listening. And we will see you guys next week. I got another interview. I did another guys podcast, Otto Gohms. And I am looking forward to releasing that one after he's released it. And so we'll see you back next week. Same bad time,

17:58say bad channel cheers. All right, Hans, welcome to the show, man. I'm excited to have you on. I know we're going to have a fantastic conversation. We got a ton of shit to talk about. And I really enjoyed the stuff that you and Brian put out and a lot of the stuff that you've personally been putting out lately because Brian's dealing with all the shit that he's dealing with overseas with the war. But I'm really happy to have you here, man. And just share your story. And as a fellow practitioner, looking forward to you sharing your viewpoint, how you got into this, which you guys are currently doing right now with Remden and what there is to come. So let's jump right into it and start with the background, man. And just kind of give the people who'll background on, on Hans. Awesome. Man, yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you to be on the show, brother. Yeah. So my company is Remden Finance and my business partner, Brian Moody. We started this, coming up on five years ago, really sort of did it as a side gig for a while. Brian had been practicing infinite banking as a practitioner for maybe eight years now. Might be coming up on 10.

19:02I'm not sure. But he'd been doing a solo practice on the side. He is a national guard pilot out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, flies tankers. And I was a Navy helicopter pilot. And so I'll get to how I came about this. But what Remden Finance is is our joint business as authorized ABC practitioners. We focus on obviously insurance. We have our podcast, Remden Finance podcast. And we generally try to approach the financial strategy of, or we sort of build everything around the paradigm of protect, save, grow in that order, which obviously fits in very well to the ABC philosophy. And so like you said, Brian is now deployed. He got mobilized from a national guard to go overseas. And so that happened in February. He left in April and he's been there since on basically open ended indefinite orders. So as of now, that is why I'm doing solo podcast, which I got to give you credit for being able to do the solo episodes every week. You know, I've done some here and there throughout our two coming up on two and a half years of podcasting.

20:06Episode out every week, I'd say probably single digits have been me doing a solo episode. I did a few about central banking. We'll know your enemy where I talk through. I have my encyclopedia of central banking and I basically try to take their lens and perspective so we can understand it. But I'll tell you, doing an hour of talking to the camera, talking to yourself is not easy. So respect for for you doing a solo a solo podcast. Yeah, it's definitely tough, man. But I think the stuff that you've been putting out recently has been great. Been loving it. So like you said, no end in sight for when Brian's coming back. So you're going to have to keep doing something. But you know, if you need a guest, I'll come on. But yeah, man, just just keep chugging through. I absolutely love the stuff that you guys put out and always so much value in it as well. So just appreciate it. Yeah. And I think we should have you on ours just to basically do the inverse where I want to interview you to get your background, expose our audience to you. And yeah, fortunately, there's no shortage of big headline macroeconomic news. And I am kind of obsessed with finance and economics and learning. And I try to really see,

21:15I really strive to view these stories from the lens of someone who believes the underlying narratives, right? You try to view this, you know, we have this, we have this perspective in our community where we're approaching it from Austrian economics. We have this understanding of how we talk about and believe financial strategy works on the personal level on the individual family community level. And that bends more towards Austrian economics versus the type of economics practice by central bank and every economist in any administration where it's a kind of a top-down public policy, monetary policy by the Fed, fiscal policy by Congress is how we steer the economy. And it's that that's that demand side versus the kind of personal individual, you know, philosophy that we have. But when you're interpreting these stories, you're going to find yourself endlessly frustrated. If you are of the belief that the Fed should end and needs to end and will end, you're going to be endlessly frustrated by the fact that the entire market is moving on without you, swinging with the, you know, every time they announce a Fed rate cut or a high egg or whatever, you know, a red suit today or a red tie today, blue tie today. Like the

22:20whole world economic world is just going to keep chucking along. I personally believe that the dollar system will be in place for the rest of our lives. I think that it will be underlying change. We might be moving towards a digital backing of our currency, not a CBDC, but I think a stablecoin working into shore up the value of a dollar. Like I think that there's a lot of things that are, I say, my community, particularly, and I'll get to wire community generally is very skeptic of narratives and the experts. That is sort of our founding story and how Brian and I met. But I'll let's say we, you know, I'll group in the overall IBC community. We are very skeptical of the Fed, fractures or banking, etc. Right. But we watch it happen and we keep thinking this has to stop. Like how can they keep doing this? But for five years now, we've been saying the end is coming to the cliff here and they just kind of keep somehow stringing it along. Right. And so my goal in doing when I do the solo episodes, my goal is let's take their given assumptions.

23:20IE that fractures or banking is a way to grow the economy that, you know, the Fed setting this interest rate range will dictate behavior, which will translate to the long end of the, you know, the yield curve. And that's how we, that's how we drive an economy. Right. Let's take those givens, even if we don't agree with them and try to understand them. So that's my, that's my approach to understanding economics and I try to convey that, especially in the solo episodes. Brian is more big picture and like how do we, how do we use IBC on a family level? I really like to nerd out. And in my background, I've got a lot of nerding out on getting into the weeds of not only IBC and Paul, you know, insurance contracts, but really trying to understand economics. So, but before I got to that and before I got to this role, I was a pilot in the Navy. That was my entire career from graduating high school and doing Rotsie in college. All I wanted to do was fly in the Navy. I got picked up for flight school. And for the first 10 years or so, I had a phenomenal career flying. I flew the H60 Romeo. It's a surface search and attack helicopter.

24:25So I got three and a half years stationed in Japan. Got to fly all around the Pacific. Saw some really cool port visits. Did well as far as our career progression goes. I mean, things were, things were tracking along great. I was coming up in my last two years of my initial service obligation after you get your wings. You have about a nine year commitment. After about two years or so of flight school. So at this point, the final two year tour is where people make the decision, am I going to stay in the Navy and continue on, sign a contract to continue. Or now that I can finally pull chalks and get out, I'm going to go jump ship to the airlines. And that's who the airlines come knocking and they say, we can give you, we can offer no deployments, we can double your pay. We'll give you a big bonus. And you're already basically trained up. It's a great deal for them because they don't have to do the training. You've got someone who's been flying in very dynamic conditions for a decade has seen everything under the sun as far as like what can go wrong. And so it's a good, it's a good deal. And it's a good time

25:25when a lot of people get out and go airlines. And so the Navy has to incentivize people to stay in. And so I opted for that final two year tour. I applied for a program to do grad school. Instead of doing a deploying tour, I didn't want to go back on a boat. I just spent a few years deploying on a carrier. And I wanted to do something different. So I applied for a program and got picked up for it. And they basically said apply to grad school wherever you want to go and we'll pay the bill. Get whatever degree you want. Okay, this sounds too good to be true. And since I did this, the that program has been shuttered because the value proposition, maybe I might be responsible for them shuttering it because it was a total loss for them. They got zero dollars out of the investment. It was it cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars for my degree. And they got zero flight hours from it. And I'll tell you why and we'll get to that. But I ended up doing the, I went to Cambridge, Massachusetts. My wife and I just got married a few months later. We moved to Cambridge. I started the Masters of Public Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government.

26:31And that is effectively kind of a breeding ground and a mandatory stopping point for politicians and policy makers. The cool thing is at that school, when you are, when there's a Republican in office, which there was at the time, all of the Democrat cabinet members drop out of the White House, out of the cabinet, out of the administration, and they go to Harvard Kennedy School and resume their professorships. And then when there's a Democrat in office, they all get sucked back up. So names, if you track politics, there's a lot of names that you would recognize when a Republican's in the White House, you'd recognize you could look through the whole staff of the Harvard Kennedy School and see a lot of names that you've seen in the news. And then when there's a Democrat, so in my case, a lot of Obama cabinet officials are now professors there, you know, former secretary of states, sects, you know, like UN representatives, and then also a bunch of senators, congressmen, etc. People do teaching fellowships there. And then when Biden was elected, they all went back. So now if you looked at the list, or I guess not,

27:32during the Biden, if you looked at the list of Harvard Kennedy School professors, you wouldn't recognize anybody, most likely. But I was there at a unique time. And so even though I didn't agree with them on just about anything, it was pretty interesting to have, you know, like Larry Summers was one of my economics professors, right, former, you know, he's been, he's been in every role, same with Janet Yellen, and she was another professor, she was a visiting professor, but having Larry Summers and Janet Yellen, like two of the, the King and Queen of Central Banking, on, you know, on the shore list of names who have done every role under the sun in the economic world as professors was a very interesting experience. I hadn't come around to this idea. This is the very beginning of kind of scales falling off my eyes and learning to rethink my thinking. And so I was starting to do that there because I went into Harvard with this idea of I'm a conservative American guy, like I'm very, very conservative. I go in with a kind of

28:32generic, what I would say, like a watered down generic version of being a conservative. And I knew I wasn't going to fit in. And I, we have this kind of idea of like what leftist academia looks like, right? We can all picture the, what the professors look like, what the protesting students look like, you know, they're protesting everything. If it's a day ending in why they've got some ripe, some victimhood, discrimination, protesting something, right? I went in knowing I wasn't going to fit in, but I didn't realize the degree of how extreme they are in all of, in every single position they have. It's like, there's no point in having a conversation and they always talk about let's have a dialogue. We need to, we need to have a conversation about this. I'm like, you don't want a conversation. You just want to shout and you want someone to bend the knee to the most extreme possible political viewpoints. And so I really, I really kind of got this eye opening of like I knew I knew I wouldn't fit in. But the scary thing is my classmates who I kind of viewed as these cartoon characters, just as a quick example of like a day in the life at this institution. And higher education is very left leaning, obviously, right? Like 95% of professors are very

29:38left leaning. Harvard is the epicenter of that. And Harvard Kennedy School, public policy school, is that that's all there is. Like if Hillary Clinton went there, she would be viewed as a right-wing extremist, right? That's how far left there. But just an example of like your day-to-day there, you know, walking into a class and seeing a girl in tears because she wasn't deferential enough to to the opinion of the King victim, right? Did have a victim high victimhood hierarchy, right? The further you are away from from me, straight white male, the further you are away as far as like your traits of victimhood, the more credibility you have to speak in class. And so seeing professors cater to this and seeing some, you know, a girl in tears because she didn't have the right stickers on her water bottle because the King victim is berating her in front of everyone. It's pretty shocking to see or we have nameplakers and you put, you know, you have them on the like the kind of auditorium style seating and put your nameplacker there. And my classmates protested and didn't want to go wouldn't go to class until they put gender pronouns on our nameplakers.

30:41And so the administration instantly caves because they do. Basically every professor starts their their semester with two things. We have to recognize that the university, Harvard university is on stolen ground and we are here. We have stolen ground from Native Americans and we are sorry as a university. The second thing they say is as a white male, I understand I have privilege and there's no way I can possibly understand that and I'm so sorry I'm going to get on my knees and basically I'm just going to kiss your feet of anyone who's not white. Like that's the ideology. That's how every class starts. And that's not an exaggeration. So my class is protesting these, the not having pronouns on our nameplakers and the administration instantly says, okay, we'll get pronouns on our nameplakers. And so everyone has the option to go and pick up their stickers to add to their nameplakers if they are a he she or they them. So most of the class goes, I'm not a crazy person, so I don't do that. So they were protesting because they were mad because one, it wasn't mandatory and I'm not sure should not going to do that. And two, there weren't enough

31:43options, right? And so they it's like if they're protesting their protest. And so that is the level that I kind of saw there and I was like, okay, you guys are making me to you. I'm an extremist. To me, I'm pretty like just like typical conservative. You just pick any, you know, pick any, you know, guy in the military like I'm probably right along the, you know, right in the right in the the center there, right? You guys are making me an extremist. And so I just totally disconnected from any kind of thoughts on I'm going to learn about international relations and public policy and how do you interact like the whole thing was like, let's let's have these conversations that bridge the gap of differing viewpoints. And in reality, there is no attempt at any of that is just like, it is like a bludgeoning of like if you are, if you are not compliant with everything that we say, whatever the new cause to sure is, whatever the latest, whoever is the top victim, you're just going to get, you're just going to get shut down. We have no interest in outside opinions. And so you can kind of see that at it's like what happens at Harvard happens in the rest of academia, what happens in academia happens at a public policy level. And I think a lot of like

32:49a lot of the insanity that we see, I can now kind of trace back to that. And it's like I can, I know the kind of person that implements these policies now that are so destructive later. And so that it was a very interesting kind of um, realization for me of like, they're do not depend on the government to help you. Not that I ever did, but, but especially now seeing the inputs and, and it like the output makes sense. And so I'm very, I'm very much, uh, do it yourself. You need to understand this. You need to be an expert in these things. Do not like the government can only make something worse. And so never rely on them to for your financial or your, you know, your financial advice or your health advice. And so this, this distrust of experts that translated eventually to accepting and embracing IBC as a philosophy started with, I see the expert class here. I see how they're taught and a lot of the actual experts, the, you know, central banking experts, like the the macro, you know, the economists, people that you see on TV, foreign affairs, like we had, we had Obama's um, secretary of defense was a professor, Ash Carter. And so people rushed to

33:55sign up for his class because this is cool. You get to take a, you get to take someone who is just the secretary of defense and get to take his course and, and take in the course and you're like, wait a second, this is not like rigorous public policy analysis. This is just more political posturing. So I lost, I had like a total shattering of any remaining adherence I had for the expert class, I would say before things went off the rails. This is the fall of 2019. I start my first semester. And so, but a great time like for coming from a Navy environment, where you're deploying and you're on someone's schedule, like to be able to just be effectively a civilian, grow out of beard, I had no interaction with the Navy apart from just checking into the rots in it. So on paper, I'm there, but for all intents and purposes, I'm by myself, like it's just we're traveling all around New England, we're skiing, we're, you know, taking like Cambridge in the fall is just absolutely beautiful. Like it's a really, it was a really, really cool one normal semester that I had. Normal is not like in the classroom environment, it is very much not normal. But as far as getting to just,

34:58you know, early on in our married life, just getting to live in a cool town, travel around, have a lot of flexibility that we didn't have when I was, you know, active duty or I was still active, but it actually had a squadron, you know, it was, it was really cool. And so, we had a great experience there, but then March of 2020 happens, and we are told, hey, this is this is a super super super. Yeah, it gets, that's just the teaser. I mean, this gets crazy. So the, as we all know, we all live through the insanity, right? But yes, I got, I mean, I got a good day, Cambridge is nuts, right? It's the epicenter of insanity on a good day. So when COVID comes around, it's just, it's next level. And so, I remember, they said this virus is going to be so deadly that we are going to, for the first time in the 400 years of the school, we're going to go to remote online classes. So spring break is in two weeks,

35:59when you come back from spring break, don't move back to Cambridge. If you need to move your stuff out of your apartment, now you can, but we're not coming back in person for the rest of this school year, and possibly the next year. And so I thought, okay, what about the next two weeks? No, business is normal. Business is usual. It has come to class. And so, there's a two weeks, there's a two weeks start when you had a, they told you, but you got to, it's not going to do anything for this next two weeks. Yeah, yeah. And so knowing my classmates, by that point, I know you're about to become tyrannical. Three weeks from now, if I was sitting in this classroom next to somebody, you would have an aneurysm, right? Because I'm a super spreader. But for the next two weeks, the same exact people who, pretty, it was pretty easy to foresee at the time that these people would lose their mind, embrace every single thing they're told and get aggressively, like self-sensoring and self-policing of each other. Exactly happened exactly like that. But for those two weeks, we're just sitting there in class next to each other. No precautions for the deadly virus that's going to just kill

37:01everyone. And so I kind of just right off the bat, I was like, this, well, this is strange. I'm not really, really think I'd buy this. If you're not worried now, what is this two week window here? So my first kind of indication, I'm like, I don't, I don't, whatever's coming, I think it's not real. Like not to the degree it's going to be. I know you're a big travel. So travelers who appreciate this, we were going to go to Dublin for spring break. We're going to go to the St. Patty's day parade. And I had the itinerary at all. The Airbnb's booked. We're going to do a really cool eight days and start in Dublin and in Dublin, but see some really cool areas. You know, on this on this week long trip there. And so my boss of the ROTC unit, the commanding officer, calls me and was like, hey, you're canceling your trip right now. I said, no, I'm not canceling the trip. Like plans are still flying. Beer is still pouring. Like, of course, we're going to go to St. Patty's day. I'm looking forward to it. And he's like, don't you know, there's a virus. I'm like, you mean the one that's supposed to hit in two weeks after they not come back in for spring break? I was like, yeah, I'm still going to go to the trip. And he's like, well, it's recommended that you cancel

38:05your travel plans. I said, all right, are you ordering me to cancel my flight? And he said, no. I said, okay, well, then we're going to do the flight unless I'm ordered to not go on the flight. And I don't understand how that could even be a legal order. But you said, so he hung up the phone. And then as the days get closer, he keeps reaching out and berating me more and more of like, how dare you, he was a submarine guy. I was a pilot. And like, it doesn't matter to me what he thinks, we're not in the same chain of command other than that. Like, he's just signing an admin paperwork for me for the next two years, basically an attendance roster. Am I still present in the live in an encampage? So I don't really, I didn't really have this relationship with him. I had never actually met him in person. I didn't care what he thought. So I was just like, well, if you're not ordering me, I'm going to keep, I'm going to go like, I'll, and probably I'm not going to follow these precautions. But I'll tell you that I'm going to follow these precautions when I'm there. And so I, the day of our flights were flying out at like 6 p.m. from Boston to Dublin. And we're, I remember being at a dog park, we're packed, we're ready. And he's calling me and he's like, I cannot

39:09believe, like I would never trust you as an officer as a leader. If you're, this is the kind of leadership you're going to show people, I can't believe you're going to be going to a squadron as an 04 and leading people when you have such terrible decision making. I'm like, well, I've thought through like the risk matrix. Like as a pilot, we, we are pretty well trained on risk decisions here. I said, the threat is exceptionally low. This appears to be a flu, maybe a bad bug. But I'm as healthy as I can be. I'm not really worried about getting the flu. These precautions that you're talking about are nonsense. Like the fact that you're trying to get people to put a bandana over their face and we're saying this is an airborne pathogen, it's like, you guys are still going to the grocery store. You're still going to the liquor store. You're still going to get dog food. Like you don't actually believe this. You just don't want the social shame of not complying. Right. And so he's, he's just berating me. And then eventually, right about maybe two hours before we're going to leave for the airport, Dublin, Ireland, shut down all pubs in the country. And so then I called him and I said, right, we're canceling the trip.

40:09It's funny that you say that because that was like what first, second week of March or something. When did because yeah, I'd say like March 20th, I remember it because that was when the market just took its 30% flash crash. So it was around that time. We travel every March for my birthday. And March 2020, we were basically, we were on our way to Greece beginning. And we had gotten to the airport in DC to fly over to Athens and Trump had announced, hey, if you're out of the country, get back because we might be shutting it down. And so we're like, we're supposed to go to Greece for two weeks. We're like, we'll take our chances. It was me, my family, some friends, the friends that were going decided they were on a different flight. They were already in the air. They landed, heard the news, turn around, got back on a plane, came back. We went over there for

41:12two weeks. Some things were shut down and stuff. But we're like, cool. We enjoyed ourselves had a great time and then came back in here. I am somehow somehow you survived your survivor. Yeah. Yeah. And if they hadn't closed down every pub in Ireland, like we would have gone. But you know, if you're going for the same paddy state parade and like, you know, that's what's going on. So we canceled the trip and we just traveled around Vermont. And I remember telling my wife, like, I remember being in a hotel room in Burlington, Vermont, things are starting to close down. It's empty streets, but there's still places are still open. They're just everyone's kind of weird. And I just remember thinking, like, you guys are all reacting to the news. You're just watching the news. Like, none of your lives need to change. You're just watching the news and the news doesn't make sense. Like none of these stories add up. They'll show us a news story and it's like, wait a second, now we find out that that was actually footage from three years ago. But you're saying this is body's poly. It's like, the whole thing was very fishy to me from the start. And then that skepticism continued as the policy proposal has got more and more preposterous.

42:19You know, of course, we all remember, you know, you have to wear your mask into the restaurant and then you can sit down and you can take your mask off when you take bites. And I remember just having these conversations. I was the guy at that time. I was just, I was like, I'm not going to do this. Like, there was a wild shit. I was in a bar in, I don't know what city. And a man and I go in, and they have like their little squares or fucking whatever that just stand in and whatnot to create spacing. And they would allow you to have your mask off while sitting down and drinking. But if you stood up, you had to have your mask on. So I was under the assumption that COVID was like around a certain height level where you could catch it. But if you were down lower that you couldn't, it was just the wildest stuff. And not that I've ever been, again, I don't talk politics on this, on this show. And so people don't know if I'm left or right. But I couldn't be more not one or the other. I think people on both sides are just insane. And so I just kind of live my own life and try to do

43:23the things that I think are right. But this was a clear, like this, the whole COVID thing was a clear message that, oh my god, they have no idea what they're doing. They're literally just making shit up as they go. And they can easily do whatever they want. And the whole belief in this country and everything that it provides people with is just like, just want you to know, like, they say all these things, you're free, you're this, you're that. But just look at what happens when they don't want that to be the case. Exactly. And that was like, they're either guessing or they're lying. There's no scenario where standing in six feet apart from someone at a liquor store is going to protect you from a virus. Like that's so stupid. That's so idiotic that, you know, now we can only laugh at it. But at the time, it's like the fact that there was the level of compliance that there was to me was very disheartening. I would never change change any of it because of the trajectory

44:24that it put me on. Yeah, we're getting the infinite banking, you guys, you're telling you the back story. We'll get there. Yeah. And like I said before, buckle up, you're in for a long guest. And it ties in, I think, because it is like the whole idea of rethink and you're thinking and being able to think maybe I was wrong and let me review. And so going through all this, you know, I'll tell my story of the most preposterous thing I remember was I had a few buddies that came in, they flew into town, we go, we're going skiing. We go, we go skiing Vermont, we come back to New Hampshire. And because my wife and I moved up to my in-laws place in New Hampshire because Cambridge was a ghost town, right? Like they, they fully lost their minds. And so New Hampshire, live-free or die was fairly reasonable. As in like the brewery where I wrote my thesis, they would say, okay, the state says we have to do this. We're going to do exactly that and no more. And so the state says you can't stand at the at the bar and have a beer. So we're going to put a piece of tape one foot away from the bar and you can order your beer at the bar. But you have to take

45:26one step back. And now you can drink your beer. Like they're like, they're mocking these studios, right? And the New Hampshire rules were like 20% retarded, right? Cambridge was 110% retarded. And the businesses then followed up with like another level on top of that. And so we just had to get out of there. And so we spent most of that time in New Hampshire afterwards. And I remember we went to a biker bar there in Lakonia. Lakonia is got Lakonia bike week after Sturgis. It's like the number two bike rally in the country, right? I'm not a biker, but it was really cool just because the whole area gets packed with Harleys. And so there's this biker bar there that's pretty famous. And so we go, I take the guys there because they're open. They don't care at all about any of this. And so this place is packed, right? And most other places were fairly like following some kind of protocol as stupid as they were. They're just like, we're trying to stay in business. So yeah, put this little piece of plastic between you two. And like, you know, we will pretend like this does something even though we all know that we're all just larping here. But this biker bar didn't

46:27care at all. It was packed standing room only at the bar. Every table is packed. But the bartender told us she said, Hey, just a heads up every like on the hour ATF comes in and does an inspection. And you'll know and we'll ring a bell. And so no joke. We're standing there at the bar. Have our beers and the bell rings and everyone around us that's standing at the bar squats down. Doesn't air squat. No joke. So they're like a foot lower than they were. Right? No joke. 200 people probably air squatting in place. And these two like bull dicks walk in in the, you know, cacky cargo pants. This is these big buzz cut ATF agents. They come in. They stand there. They shine a flashlight around. They look around. They stand there for no joke. It felt like five minutes. And I'm like, my, my thighs are burning because I'm like, man, I wasn't training for this. Like, what are we doing? And so everyone's just still standing there drinking beer. You know, but their bartenders are still serving. And people are like, crouch down. I mean, it felt like something out of a comic book. It was so stupid. And then

47:29they just leave and everyone just goes back to their business. And I was like, this is, if anyone comes out of this experience, including the ATF agents and thinks there's any medical merit to any of this, like, there's no bridging the gap there. And that's, that's kind of like I had learned with my classmates. It's like, there's no possible way that we will ever have a productive conversation. I have no interest in finding common ground towards the pursuit of public policy. Like that mirage was shattered to me. The second I had my first class. And so in the same vein, it's like, we still have people here in Coronado where I live still walking around with masks. Not many of them, but you still see people. I'm like, what do you possibly think that's doing? And so these experts telling you these narratives, like, don't wear a mask because they don't work. We just prove the signs. Here's a scientific paper that says they don't work. Say six feet of part. Okay, actually, here's six feet of part was made up and has no medical bearing. Okay. But we're still listening to them. And so to me, I lost all faith in the medical industry. And at the same time, this whole time, like, my story with getting to IBC goes through the COVID

48:31shot. That is the really the pinnacle moment. If I had to identify one thing, like this is leading up to my distrust of experts, but recall, this is this feels like ancient history, but recall for the entire time that we're leading up to the COVID shot, that whole period, all the news is talking about will we get a vaccine? When will it come out? Will it be six months? Will it be nine months? I can't wait till we get a vaccine. We can go back to normal. And why are we thinking this is because they're pre-programming us. They're telling us this. And I remember, I remember hearing about a booster before there was ever even a shot. Like, well, we need two year boosters. How many boosters will we need? And so they're talking about this. And I remember having these conversations with my wife of like, this is coming and the Navy's going to mandate this. Like, I'm guarantee it. And they're going to mandate boosters. And so the thing is, at this point, there's no shots at all. They're rushing these things through, but there's no shots. And so when the media is having these continuously mentioning, will we need a booster or not? They're already assuming the premise that there will be a shot that you need, right? Which is a great leap to make logically. When one doesn't exist and two,

49:34you definitely don't need it. And so, so this whole thing is happening. And for a year, we're hearing about the shots will be here and save us and then we'll need a booster. And so by the time the shots actually do come out, the Navy doesn't mandate them yet because they're not authorized. And so, again, I know this sounds like nothing to do with IBC. Political experts shattered. Now medical. Because what happened and just a background for the fight that we had with the military. When the FDA approves a product effectively, simplifying it, there's a two-part process. We're just going to call part A and part B. Part A, they say, here is what we would do. Like, here's the ingredients list that we're going to put in here. And here's how the science behind what we're going to do and how it will improve health outcomes. Part B is here's our distribution schedule. Here's how we're here's where we're going to manufacture it. How we're going to manufacture it. Now, this is not precise. Like, this is not exactly, but generally speaking, here's the bait and switch. And here's the con that was pulled. Part B says, here's the actual manufacturing plan. Part A is,

50:36here's the the shot itself, right? So think like the product and then the business plan. Here's that's sort of how that's sort of my understanding of this FDA process, which typically takes close to a decade for a vaccine. Well, they rush through and they they rush through with what's called emergency use authorization, EUA. That stems back to anthrax shots in the military around the 2000 time frame. They had so many injuries from that that people sued in one. The only time people successfully sued in one against the DOD that they had this new category of medical products called EUA emergency, you thought or emergency use authorization. What that says is we can bypass the normal production. We can bypass the safety tests because the risk of the illness or the virus or whatever is so great that it outweighs the risk of rushing, getting this thing to market with no testing. What that does for the producers, the manufacturers is no liability because the government says, hey, the need is so great that you can skip all the liability components and you can skip the human trials and all the years of testing required. You can skip it all and you get you get liability

51:39protection, right? Because we need this product on market ASAP, okay? That's EUA, but in the documents, the US code that allows for that, it specifically says when you when you take an EUA product, it inherently means there's no there hasn't been human trials and therefore you're by taking that you're on go you're part of the ongoing human trials. And so you can't force anyone to this no joke traces back to Nuremberg code. You can't force into somebody into a medical experiment. And so because you can't force someone to participate in a medical experiment, you can't force someone to take an EUA product, including a vaccine. By the way, masks are EUA. They're not medically authorized, they're EUA products. That's why you never actually had to wear a mask. The EUA shot that they had, they said, we rush this to market, give us the liability protection because you are demanding that we have a product here. And so here's the product. Now nobody has to take it and literally the verbiage in the US code that allows this to be a thing says every single person has the right to refuse. Of course, you can't be forced to participate in a medical experiment. That's Nuremberg code.

52:43Not only that, but the provider has to tell you that you have the right to refuse, whoever gives you this shot, they have to tell you have the right to refuse and no repercussions can come from your refusal to be a part of the live ongoing human trials, right? That's an EUA product. They did that. They came out with an EUA version, but you can't force someone to take an EUA product. And so what they did was the military put a intense pressure campaign and said, we need 100% vaccination, but we can't order you. And so 90, they get about 99% of the way there. Most people, they they they threaten liberty. They said, you can't take leave. You're going to have to stay in quarantine. You're going to have to stay in the barracks, whatever they put in a very intense illegal pressure campaign against the military and got very high compliance rates. And they said, we can't order you to take this, but if you don't, we're going to note it and you're like, people complied pretty quick. And there was some of us that held out and said, no, I'm not going to do it until there's at least an approved one. You can't order me to take us and you can't give me repercussions. And so I didn't take it and I held out for the entire time we were there. What happened in August of 2021 was effectively a backdoor deal

53:45where they got a headline where they said, we've got an approved shot. It was August, I think August 21 2021. The FDA says we've approved the COVID shot for these two producers or three producers. August 23rd, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin mandates it. He said, now I can order you to take it. So now you 1% who haven't taken it, I'm ordering you to take it now. So the message comes down. Punishment is swift. Punishment is severe. If you follow, if you don't follow a lawful order, right? But the bait and switch and what they actually did was they approved part A going back to my initial thing. They never approved part B and documents that got exposed in courts and discovery. The DOD said, hey, we need a headline saying it's approved. We know part B is not going to happen. We know you're never going to assume liability for this product because they're already killing people. There's already huge spikes in cardiac issues and young people cancer and turbo cancer, all that stuff is happening now. We know you're you're not going to be on the hook liable liable for this. And so we know you'll

54:46never produce them. And Pfizer, these companies said, yeah, we're not going to produce these approved. We're only ever going to produce these EUA and the DOD and emails that were approved in court said, we know, but we need a headline. So basically give us a headline that says you approve this. Okay, cool. Part A approved. We now have an approved COVID shot. It's part A, by the way. It's not part B, right? But the DODs took that and ran with it, mandated it. And so I got plugged in with a group of pilots that were fighting the mandate that we're going to take it for various reasons. One, it's illegal. It's an on lawful order to a lot of people had religious accommodation requests because all of these testing of every vaccine involves millions and millions of abortive field tissue. And so people have an issue with that people had admin exemptions people had all kinds of reasons for not wanting to take this mainly the fact that it's not tested and that there's no need for the healthiest segment of the population on average to take a vaccine against the flu. That was rushed through for production, right? So a lot of people, the remaining one percent or so who hadn't taken it. This didn't really move the needle. If you've gone through the pressure campaign up to this point,

55:47them saying it's approved. It got a few more, but but not really. And so they Navy offered the DOD offers some exception admin paperwork routes. And so I filed a religious accommodation request and I said, I don't want to take this and they are required to treat you as if you're compliant until you have final adjudication on that within 30 days. So a lot of us submitted admin medical religious exemption requests and were promptly denied without them looking at it. We found out later that the Navy had a process where they they had a standard process that said, here's when you get an RA request, here's how you deny it. Not here's how you evaluate and decide if you're going to approve it or deny. Here's here's the workflow, how you how you deny it. And then we're going to rubber stamp it at the end. So we're getting rubber stamped aniles back with our names misspelled our branches off being, you know, branches service being off your designator, like what you do being wrong, all kinds of errors because they're basically just flowing it through a pipeline that says when it comes in, it goes through this channel to get denied, right? And so that was a process until they got denied and then we appealed because we have the right to appeal and

56:50they just sat on those appeals and never answered. My appeal got approved about a week before I separated because I knew I was getting out two or three years later at this point. But what happened was I got back to San Diego, I had signed a three year contract to keep lying. And the second I checked into the squadron here, I got benched and they said, you can't fly because you're you're a health threat and you are not a priority anymore because you you can't fly. And so a squadron has four or five O4s like one tier below the senior officers. And so it's a pretty big impact to my future squadron when they're like, wait a second, we're not getting this guy or the so four, we have all of our plans built around getting an O4 coming in for a three year tour and we're not going to get them. And so I'm getting this pressure here, but I'm not going to take it. And so I sit and I wait and I get benched and every day I check the flight schedule and I'm not on the flight schedule for the next day. And they wait me out for two years where I'm getting paid to effectively be a state home dad. And so on one hand, like I got a lot of time with my daughter that I wouldn't have got another was, but I'm being paid to sit at home and not fly. They spent well over I'd say

57:59a hundred and four thousand on my degree alone plus living in Cambridge, PCSingming across the country twice. Like they spent a lot of money on my degree and they had gotten zero flight hours for me. The mandates lifted. They say, okay, there's no longer a mandate to take the shot. You are free and clear. And I said, well, I still am waiting on the results of my accommodation request. You owe me that legally. It's your process. I followed your process. And they said, well, we're just forget about that. Just forget about it. No problem. And they said, okay, well, you can start your timer now for your three year contract. And I said, start my timer. What do you mean? I'm on my timer. I'm followed every order, except for the one that you guys admitted in court was unlawful. And the Navy, by the way, in this time period got taken to court and lost and admitted in court. That's where it came out in discovery that we were rubber stamping these these denials. It also came out that they were the ones who basically ordered the FDA to give them a fake approval. It also came out that they knew there would be no approval. And that they knew this was an unlawful order. And so we are vindicated, but still punished. And so they said, you have to start

59:02your three year timer over. Otherwise, you're going to be in breach of contract. I said, that's not how a contract works. I just took an elective at Harvard Law for a month. I'm a nerd. I took contract law at Harvard Law as an elective for fun. And by the way, you can't do this because in order for me to be in violation of my contract, you have to allow me the opportunity to fulfill it. And then you've ordered me to not fly. You've ordered me to not advance on orders to my squadron. You've benched me for two years. That's called frustration of contract. I can't be guilty of breaching a contract that I was physically barred from fulfilling. So therefore, if you want more time from me, they're saying you need to extend from June 24 to the least August of 2026 or beyond. I said, if you want those extra two years, you have to per contract law. Here's contract law says it black and white. You have to offer me new consideration. IE, you have to pay me more money, offer me more money. And then I can decline that or I can accept it. But you can't just change the terms of a contract that exists. And they said, well, you're going to be in breaching contract if you don't accept orders to your squadron. I said, I accept orders to my squadron, but I'm

1:00:04going to hold you to the contract that you wrote. And I signed, it says, I'm separating in June of 2024, right? At this point, I have been paid two of my three bonus checks, 20 grand each year. So 60 grand contract. So I got the first two, the third one, they canceled. I got 15 grand after tax when I hit my deposit. I get a 20 grand bonus. I pay five grand of the government of their bonus money back. I get 15 grand in my account. So I've gotten 30 over the course of two years. I've been paid 40 on paper, but I received 30 after tax. And they canceled the third check of 20. And they also went back and they said, okay, you're in breach of contract. So we're going to take back your bonuses. We're going to cancel the third bonus check and your monthly fly pay, which is an incentive for pilots. We're going to go back retroactively for a few years and pull that back as well. So they they they tacked me about 50 grand a debt plus a canceled check for 20 grand. And so I said, hey, that's not legal. Like again, I'm writing to the headjag at the detailing office. I'm trying to involve my superiors, my bosses, the O6s and charge of me. And I'm like, hey, here's

1:01:06US contract law. Here's here's the EUA law. Like we already you already know in court that this isn't a law for order because the Navy's admitted it. But like I have violated no laws. I followed every lawful order. I've been full compliance with my contract. But here's what they're trying to do. They're trying to send me on one year order. It's across the country just to kill to kill off the rest of my time and make it painful. And they're going to put me in 50 grand a debt and cancel my third check of 20 grand. I said, can you step in here? I know you know the guy. I know your boys with the guy at the detailing office. Like you guys flew together. Like can you just tell him? They sent a text and be like, hey, let's pump the brakes on like Stasi's tri- or that was my call sign was Stasi. Like let's pump the brakes on his on this punishment here because he's legally correct, medically correct, ethically correct, administratively correct. Can you pump the brakes? Can you just make it make a call and like have them pause while the Jags review this? And every single boss I had, ones I was tight with, like I was one of their lead pilots, like really good relationships with me. I said, hey, I'm sorry. This is not my hell to die on. This is your hell to

1:02:10die on. I'm like, no, you're my leader. Like what is your hell to die on if it's not this? Like your role, you're an administrative leader at this point. You're no six. I'm going to know for working for you. What is your hill to die on? Like what do you have? What are you preserving here? Like honor, courage, commitment is what you talk about. I realized that career preservation was the primary value of Navy officers. And so I'm fighting this thing alone. They sent me to Virginia. They said, hey, we we have one more year left on your contract and you you turned down orders. I said, no, I didn't accept it every order. You guys breach contract. I'm going to prove that later on. You guys breach contract, but I have one more year left. You're right. So they said, okay, well, we really need you on this ship in Virginia to do this. Oh, three job. I said, that doesn't make sense. Like I live in San Diego. I can see from my balcony. I can see about 40 ships in the bay. San Diego naval base. I know manning, not not not one of those ships is anywhere near 80% manned. There's a manning crisis in the Navy. I know those 40 ships could use me for one year. And I'm, you know, I'm that's the most I'll be on board. So why are you writing me orders to

1:03:12Norfolk, Virginia when I live in San Diego? You're going to incur the cost for me to PCS to Norfolk and back twice. And on a ship doing an Oh three job that doesn't like, there's no way this is any like sorry, man, I have nobody else. I said, yes, you do every pilot in the Navy is eligible for this. It's no three. There's no three job every Oh three pilot coming up on this tour is eligible. You said, sorry, man, I have nobody else. And this is my top priority bill. I get to the ship. I move out there by myself. My wife and my daughter stay here. I move out to the ship. I'm living in a camper in Little Creek, Virginia. I check into the to the ship. And they're like, this isn't, this isn't a job. Like what do you mean? How are these your orders? There must be a mistake. We already have this job filled that your person who's doing the job on your orders checked in a month ago. Like this doesn't make sense. And I said, no, it doesn't. They're like, should we call the detailers and tell them they made a mistake? I'm like, no, they did this intentionally. And so I'd waited out for a year. I have no job on the ship. I have no role there. They assigned me a division or department just to like, I kind of covered down for someone who would a different

1:04:16department for someone who was checking in. So I'm the safety officer on this ship. I have no training. It's not my role. Like I'm not a ship person. But I'm a safety officer and I have a small division on the ship. And so I just said, you know, like, screw it. I'm here for a year. I'm going to do what I can to help these people that work for me. I have no career to salvage. I have no resume or fitness report. We call it like basic year evaluation marks. I was like, I have nothing to salvage here. I could I could walk off with a 0% rating. You know, it doesn't really work that way. But if you were on a zero to 100 scale, most people want to get 100 or good rating for the next jobs, right? I was like, I'll take a zero. I don't care at all. Ranked me last, whatever. I'm going to do everything I can to just lay it all out in the field for these guys. If they need classes, if they know if they want to do special training or whatever for their careers, I will do whatever I can. And so I just kind of went in and I was like, I'd find people that didn't want to take the flu shot, for instance. And I give the I'd email them and tell them, here's exactly how you get out of it because it's not legal for them to order that either. Same thing with this. There was guys on the ships that didn't that on the ship that didn't want to take COVID shot. They

1:05:20were being punished. I got them in touch with lawyers. Now we've all won those cases. And I was basically, it was like, I'm just going to be a bullet China shop here because I have no connection to this ship. But I separate. And when I separate, I leave with about at this point, what's accumulated to about 55,000 in debt plus that check cancel for 20. And when you separate, they transfer that debt to the treasury. And the treasury slaps on 30% just because why not? And so about 70 grand or so is my debt to the treasury that's still ongoing. That's in collections right now. And we've won our lawsuit. Fortunately, there's some lawyers that saw how blatantly obvious this was, how black and white. I mean, they're not tied to the military. So they're like, yeah, this is obvious. Easiest win ever. Like you guys broke every single law. And so we have since won the lawsuit. And tomorrow, actually, I have my first appointment, the way that class action against the military works is not like a normal class action where everyone gets the same payout. They take name plaintiffs and they took like eight guys. And they said, these are our name plaintiffs. They get the verdict.

1:06:20And once their verdict is upheld, when they get their verdict, it applies to everyone else and they get their own day in court. So those guys went eight for eight. They won. So now I'm going into my meeting tomorrow. And now it's like, I already have, I already won the case. My verdict is win or whatever. Maybe the verdict is guilty. It's just a matter of what am I going to get repaid. And so that's what we're going to start working towards. And so it's been a very eye opening like full distrust of the medical system, full distrust of the political public policy sphere. I lost all faith in the experts. But at the same time, this is like, these are still just days that are slowly passing by. And I'm trying to learn. And so that's when I do open to insurance. So after all that 50 minutes in, man, yeah, if you guys handled through that 50 minutes, which is the craziest intro into IBC, I've ever heard or just fucking life in general, like it's un believable. What power or assumed power gives you the belief that you can do just, I mean, again,

1:07:30there's so many ways, so many different places that you could take that. But now that you've lost all belief in any of these systems, I think you've set up a great foundation for why you're like, yo, this book, this concept, all of this stuff is just it's for me. It couldn't be more for me. So let's lay that out because. Let's do it. Jesus. What a if anyone still listening, thanks. And our podcast are very unfiltered. So if you're not used to like we don't, we're not a political podcast, but we don't shy away from any views. It's like where IBC focused financial strategy focused. And then we just send it and we don't we don't never try to cater for massive deals. There's no sugarcoating. It's just like that. It's just like you said, our views on some things may not be exactly aligned. I don't know what those things are. We'd have to talk about views. But as far as like all of that is just absolutely insane.

1:08:33And again, at the end of the day, the only thing that I'm ever worried about is doing what's best for myself and my family and then for my clients and helping them understand why all these other people are trying to brainwash them and are doing what's best for them, the government, the wall street, whatever it may be, because you guys might you must be fucking crazy if you thought they were on your side if they thought you had if you thought they had your best interest in heart. So whatever Hans views are, whatever my views are, figure out what your views are and what you believe in. And then again, read this book and take more control. And so let's talk about how this book is allowed you to do more of that in your life. Exactly. Yeah. How did I get there? I look at the little market down the road for me. There's a girl that works there. She still wears a double mask. She still wears a little like oxygen. Double mask or fan double mask. And I don't know what it is. That's like wearing a double condom.

1:09:36Never mind. Yeah. Fuck it. It's going to protect you. More protection. At least that actually does something most of the time. But like she wears this thing around her neck that's like a fan. It's like an O2. I don't know exactly what it is. But she wears a double mask and all these protective measures. And I look at her the same way that I look at what most people think financial planning is. And I'm like, you're so brainwashed that you think this is effective in any way. You've never like, how can I, I'll never be able to relate. We'll never have a conversation. We'll never have common ground. But I'm like, how do you think this makes sense? And that's how I view financial advice now. So how did I get there? In the time frame of me being in this group of pilots fighting the DOD, we ultimately got them some lines in our group got the the mandate overturned. Kind of spearheaded the effort to get these legal lawsuits going. We've got some some real like that's to me like the military is not full of patriots. That group is full of patriots. Some of the men in there, the leaders in there, particularly like Commander

1:10:38Rob Green who wrote a book and published a book called Defending the Constitution behind Enemy Lions about his boss while he was still active duty. And he's still active duty to this day. If you want to read some crazy, like if you think my story's crazy, I'm like a two out of 10 on some of the stories of what the Navy did or the DOD did. Defending Constitution behind Enemy Lions by Rob Green, that book will blow your mind. Anyways, in that group, you know over the course of like two years, we talk about a lot of other things besides the mandate fight. And so I talked often about economics and finance. I've always been very interested in finance from the personal personal finance. I was into like the fire, you know, movement. The CFP like what we generally call like retirement ink or the CFP model. I'm just going to call it CFP. And by that, I mean, the blanket like you plan until you're 65 and you take 4% of that income and you live off 70% of your current income, like that general thing. I'm going to I'm I'm strawmating it because I can I can kind of steal it now. Let's but we'll get into like what I'm working on now. But like I

1:11:40understand kind of why they do that the way they do. And I also understand the incentive structures. We're going to bundle that into one aggregate or called the CFP. Right. And so I was a big fan of the CFP, the CFP model retirement ink. And so I would talk about finance as a lot and Brian, my now business partner, would message me and be like, Hey dude, like everything you're saying is austere economics. Like the way that you approach this because I'm very skeptical by nature. And I was I was what you would once call a conspiracy theorist now just confirmed all of these things were true. Right. There's no conspiracy is just not enough documentation to prove. Right. Now there's just enough hindsight. There's enough hindsight. We can see that it was true. And so and I say that broadly like a lot of the stuff for me was just COVID stuff. And it's like, okay, all the conspiracy theorists were right about COVID. A lot of them were right about economic stuff. And so in that sense, like I'm skeptical and I don't like the system after going through all of this. And the way I would describe economics is like, Hey dude, you you're talking about austere economics, but you're treating like you identified the problem correctly from the Austrian lens. IE,

1:12:46what matters is individual behavior and taking it to a smaller level. But the the the solution, you're still talking about the CFP, right. You're you're applying the medicine. You don't trust the science behind the medicine, but you're still taking the shot effectively. It's kind of the analogy there. And so he was like, I think you would like this book and he sent me becoming your own banker. And I get it. And I'm like, I opened it up and I've been sure I was whole life get out of here. You know, I'm like, Hey, thanks man. But I know, I know better. I tossed the book aside. I didn't think about it. But in the meantime, I'm getting I'm bench from flying. I'm not doing anything. I mean, I'm going to stay home down. Winnithous. Give me reference on 2021, 2022. Okay. He sends me the book 2021. Because I remember it was Thanksgiving of 21. I just we just moved into our house here on Coronado. sends me the book. We've been in contact. We talked a lot about like economics and stuff. But Thanksgiving of 21, he sends me that book and I tossed it aside. And a few months later, I'm trying to make something of the time that I'm effectively unemployed. Like I'm paid

1:13:48unemployed. So it's great. But like I check the flight schedule. All right. Cool. I'm not flying again tomorrow. I'm in this permanent limbo with no one in sight. And so I want to get something out of this. Like I'm always trying to learn. I love, but I love learning. And so I said, I'm going to get a, I'm going to get some job out of this. So I go and I start looking at job sites. And there was one that popped up called Red Balloon, which came up out of COVID. It was basically like a job board for people that aren't crazy that haven't gone crazy with COVID. So it was like, really what it was was employers that are not going to require you to get a COVID shot was like they're starting mission. Like if you don't trust what's going on, but you want to get a job in this weird, weird environment, this was the job. I don't know if it's still a company or not. But I just kind of bruised and I was looking at like helicopter jobs. I was looking at different financial jobs. I looked at insurance and I thought, you know, I basically said, Hey, everything else I thought about the medical industry, about health, about the government, about the Navy, about public policy, all of it's been shattered. Right. I'm going from the approach

1:14:49with all of these fields as in everything I thought I knew, everything I've been taught. I'm going to assume not assume it's wrong, but I'm just not going to bake it into the assumption that let's start from scratch. And so the same thing financials like, Hey, well, maybe I feel pretty educated on macro economics, having just gone through a lot of economics classes at HKS, learning from people, I'm a personal student of this like I nerd out. I brought the tax code front to back. I took a tax law class. I'm very into this. But let me direct that into something that I admittedly don't know because if you would ask me in the Navy, you get a $400,000 group life insurance policy. It's been up to 500 since then, but the time was $400,000. And if you would ask me to first 10 years of my career, I would have said, Yeah, I have insurance. I got a SGLI, I got a mature group life insurance, 400 grand. Cool. Nice little check for my wife. I wouldn't want, I would love to check for 400 grand right now. I had no idea the concept of human life value. I had no idea the concept of insurability. Anything we talk about like basic stuff now. And so I said, you know what? I'm going to get my insurance license just to learn more about this thing that I admittedly is a very big

1:15:49weak spot in my understanding. And so I pick up that book again as I'm going through and I pick it up with the intention of dismantling it. I try to disprove the premise of it, right? I'm going to go live. People pick it up for that reason. They're like, these people think they're more, let me go ahead and show them. Yeah. And it was humbling because the more I tried to poke holes in it, the more I realized, wait a second, it's just a contract. Like it's just a contract. And I'm an I'm an broiled in a contract law battle right now with the Navy. I took a class on it in grad school. I'm now living a dispute over a contract. And so this is a life in this life insurance contract is a contract between two parties. And so I know it's enforced. The only party is that don't have to adhere by contract law apparently is the US Navy. But in in commerce, contract law binds. That's the only reason that someone, you know, you have a a part shop in Kansas. That's the only reason that you would send your parts to a factory in Indiana because of contract law, you know, they're going to fill in this contract or pay the collateral like like contract law exists.

1:16:50And so these are black and white contracts that we're talking about here. They perform as advertised. And that question now becomes okay. Does it make sense for individuals? And that's where I was still like, okay, well, it still doesn't make sense for someone to sink all this money into a whole like premium. And so I started diving more and more into it and eventually kind of realized like slap on the face. And I honestly, I feel like, you know, there was a period where I'm no, I'm losing my Navy career and because in aviation, like timing is so rigid. The second I got benched for like more than a month, everyone knew my career is over. I'm not going to make commanding officer. I could stay in and like limp along and make 20 years to get the pension. Maybe if this resolves, but there's no way that like I had a pristine record. I was on the golden path we called it like I admittedly, like I had a very, very good career and I was a top performer at every squadron I was at. That went out the way. Easily trajectory change. Yeah. And that went out the window permanently. Like once I got benched and I'm done, like I that there's no chance I'm ever making CEO, right?

1:17:54That this this dream, my wife and I always planned on me doing 20 years. I get the pension. I get the health care for life. Like that was part of our plan. And now we look to each other and it's like, all right, I know I'm not going to take this, but are we ready to actually give all of this up? And I got to figure something out. And so I'm going through I'm going through this contract fight. I'm realizing this is a good this is a contract that it works and is enforced. Now it doesn't make sense for me as an individual. And that's where finally I was like, okay, I I have to just admit like I'm wrong here. I'm dead wrong Dave Ramsey is dead exactly incorrect like provably, indisputably, not just like is my opinion as it makes sense for this client. No, it's like mechanically on the mechanics of a contract. You're wrong. You don't understand these concepts. And so I really kind of once I was like once I realized that I was like, all right, Brian, pick this book a couple months later. I'm in. And now he's like, all right, cool. Like we can start talking about policies like no, no, no, I do. I'm in like I'm in. I'm not like, yes, I'm going to start this for my family, but I'm in.

1:18:55And I felt this like there's times where I've learned that you let go. And it sounds like it's like cliche, but let go and let God, I was like, I need to stop trying to beg for this navy job back that God is slapping me in the face and being like, listen, dummy. This is not your path. Like this has been a great path, but this is not your path anymore. And as as I'm like, kind of mourning the loss of this career that was stolen, you know, this exact opportunity to partner with Brian has been doing this for five years, but is ready to expand looking for a partner. And he didn't ask me to be a partner initially. I was just like, dude, I'm in. And he's like, oh, cool. Well, I've been looking for someone. Um, and so I am a, I'm a pretty quick study and I'm very like deep dive when I get into it. And so I'm like, dude, I'm in. I'm all in. I get it. I can, I can talk this. I can now make the case for it. I think I have a strong background in being able to think, like criticize it. And I can make the case like any, I can resonate with someone who has these, these concerns over it and counter them and, and actually walk through in a teaching

1:19:59manner. And so I'm like, this is it. This is my career. This is all of a sudden. This is what I'm doing with my life. And if you had told me five years ago that I would be out of the Navy not flying, I would be selling insurance and let alone God forbid, whole life insurance. Like it took me basically just being like the path is so lit up here. For me to just continue to try to, you know, that, you know, grovel and try to get back on track with the Navy. It's like, why would I do that? Why would even, even if this all goes away? And when it did go away, there, now I actually this, this past week, I got an email like, please come back. Like we need pilots, please come back. I got it from the same leadership. No kidding. From the same department that put me, that breach contract and put me said, I breach contract, the admiral in charge of that no joke last week said greetings from Millington, Tennessee. We value your leadership and your flight experience. If you're looking to come back to the cockpit, here's a way we can offer you, right? They're trying desperately to get people back as they are creating with this iron war, this enormous retention crisis, looming. They're trying to get people back. So no joke. They want me back now. And I am like,

1:21:03good riddance, not a chance in that. Oh my gosh. And so we started remnant finance. He had a company called, before we're called perennial wealth. And we rebranded that to remnant finance. And we have been doing the financial strategy from the IBC perspective ever since. And we've done a really good business like it's been amazing. It's been stressful because it's not certain. You know, and you never really think about as a business owner, my first 12, 13 years, I'm W2. It's like a guaranteed check. You know, you go look up, you can just do a search like, oh, four with dependence and nine, two, one, one, eight, corn auto zip code. Here's exactly, you know exactly how much I make the whole country can find out exactly how much I'm making. The worst pile in the best pile, I could pay the same. There's stressors, right? There's deployment. There's other stuff that's stressful, but what's not stressful is money in like consistency of income. Now I don't have deployments. I can control my calendar, but it's very inconsistent. And so overall, it's much,

1:22:04much better financially than before. But I can make three times what I made in the Navy in one month. And I can make zero the next month, you know, like very little the next month. And so it's been a, it's been a wild journey. But yeah, that's kind of how I got to, to this, to speak on that. So I got into insurance, obviously in a much different way. And that was one of the biggest things for me early on. And that's one of the reasons why I love what we do so much. Because early on, I was just selling life insurance essentially. I signed on with an IMO when they were teaching me term, final expense, all that stuff. And so I got a look into that. And then their big thing was pushing IUL. So I learned a lot about that and actually learned about life insurance. Never knew that there was cash value. All these things just again coming in completely green and naive. But what's so cool on the income and money side when it comes to IBC and teaching people this concept and that being the only thing that I do now is sure, like months are up and down with how much

1:23:08you make. But the, the value and the quality of your service. I never question that more people are going to show up that want to be valued and heard and served in the highest level possible. And so at the beginning when I was doing this, not IBC, but just the insurance stuff. It's kind of cold calling some stuff or semi cold calling, warm calling, whatever they want to call it with their leads and shit that they did. But it was just like, I remember vividly in Washington where we lived or literally just sold that house when I first got in a year or two years into this and doing these calls and, you know, getting small little commissions from stuff and just trying to stay alive and a man to supporting us. Just multiple times laying on the ground in my office like, I can't fucking do this man. This is, this is too much like this is so stressful to go from that and all of that knowledge that I've accumulated over the years to now being six years in and having a very

1:24:15full understanding of how to serve my clients, IBC, all of this stuff becoming a practitioner and just knowing like, if I'm just doing the right things for my people, those people will tell other people and more people will show up. And I'm never worried about my income now. And it's just, it's so, it's such a weight off your shoulders and stuff. And again, we've gone through so many processes within our life where we're seeking people to do a job that we're willing to pay for. And we can't get them to show up to do the job. You're just like, what is this? Like, I'm trying to pay you to do the thing that you say you do for work and you can't do the thing. Like, how are you a professional here? So one of the things that I really focus on is like being available for my clients, being proactive, constantly being in contact with them, being the initiator sometimes, because all I try to do is be the person that I would want the coach that has the potential to

1:25:15change the trajectory of my life, be for me. I know that's what you guys do with your clients. You take very good care of your clients. It's a hundred percent education based. People oftentimes don't even realize that I sell the policies. They're like, are you just like the educational, the educational platform? I'm like, no, no, no, I'm the full service thing. I'm hooking you up with the policy. I'm doing all this, but it's wild. But I know you guys are in a tight spot right now, because again, you were a team and they took half of your team away to go do this other BS stuff. And so it's trying to find that balance in everything and how you work with the dynamic of a soloversa, a dual kind of attack on this. But again, I've found so much value in the stuff that you guys have provided. And much like you, I may not be, I'm not going to Harvard, folks, but I absolutely love learning and talking to people like Hans, like Roe, who I recently had on my podcast, other folks like that, that just you start surrounding yourself with these people. And

1:26:16you're like, there is no way I can't win in life, whatever I'm doing. If I just keep surrounding myself with these type of folks, and again, focusing on these things that have contractual guarantees and these other parts. So yeah, talk to me a little bit about, you did say you've learned how to criticize the book, the concept, and that type of stuff. You know, I want you to play a little devil's advocate on where you think this might have some holes or may not be the best for somebody because I think we've both flushed out so many of those ideas. Then I want to know a little bit more about how you're using it in your life, how you fit it in your grand plan. And you know, how it just fits as this asset and not the only asset, but this asset in your, your, your tool shed that you're utilizing for building wealth. Because I know you guys do a lot of other things, you specifically. And then, you know, kind of some things that are up and coming with what you guys are doing with Remnant Frontier.

1:27:17Yeah, so as far as like, I can, I'm sympathetic to a lot of the, the critiques of either the book or the concept or whole life in general. And I'm sympathetic to them because I held them. So, I held them in a point where I didn't know, you don't know what you don't know, but I understand the the hesitation. It's a brutal marketing campaign, a very effective marketing campaign against fixed products like whole life and annuities, right? And there's reason behind that folks again, Tin Hat put it on. There are reasons behind these certain things. Well, yeah, I mean, on that vein, like Reed Edward Bernays' book called Propaganda, he is Sigmund Freud's uncle, I believe, and he wrote a book called Propaganda. He's basically the, the father of behavioral marketing. And so he, a lot of these things that are implanted in our heads, it's a intentional marketing strategy. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Like if you read that book called Propaganda, it's not like Propaganda, like it's a negative thing.

1:28:18It's like, hey, how do we propagandaize the people? I got paid to do that and I did it so successfully that everyone now thinks breakfast is the most important meal of the day, right? Why is skim milk considered healthy? All of these things are traceable, documented marketing campaigns, not like hidden knowledge or conspiracy. He's like in his book, he talks about, here's who paid me, here's what industry paid me to have a marketing campaign, the pork industry, paid me to do a marketing campaign to get you to think breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Most people didn't eat breakfast. People didn't drink skim milk. Skim milk is a waste product. When you have milk, the heavy cream is the most valuable because it's the most nutrient rich, right? So you take raw milk, you take the cream off the top and you use the whole milk and then the skim is the waste product at the bottom. You feed it to chickens. So the dairy industry had a campaign, how do we make skim milk marketable instead of people feeding it to the chickens as a waste product? Like this is documented and bragged about. A lot of these things, you can trace the marketing campaign by term and the best of difference is the marketing campaign. It's not a strategy. It's a marketing campaign. And so you have to be able to understand the origins of some of this. But at the same time,

1:29:19when you, when if someone knows what whole life insurance is from their perspective, it is a base only policy that they're, they have because they were so like a lot of guys, a lot of young guys, myself included as a young officer, there's a company that basically targets junior officers and gets them into high load mutual funds and based only on holiday policies, right? Now I credit, working with them, I do credit them because you take guys who are 21 getting paid for the first time and you direct something to savings. You get a five to nine set up, you get a whole life insurance set up, you get these mutual funds, you get your maxed out your 401k or TSP, like you get kind of on these tracks, now very inefficient tracks from what I know now. But I do credit that idea of like taking, you know, locking away something from someone I view now, like locking my money into 401K is not optimal, but locking money into 401K of someone who would otherwise spend that money. Yeah, that's a great play, right? And so I had the whole life policy that got very, very little cash value as impossible to call the company. I had a paper, a stack of paper and I had to call like a 1-800 line transfer three or four times to get any information about it, including when I eventually

1:30:22surrender the product, which knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have, but I also wouldn't buy it, knowing what I know now. And so if that's, if that's what you come in with and all of these videos, you like the money guy podcasts, they're takedown of whole life. Everyone when they talk about, when they do, is takedown videos, they're using use cases that nobody in our community would ever consider, like I would never do a policy like that. They're using, sometimes in that case, the money guys video, like, oh, I do feel is the interesting. They're using a different product. And they're using a poorly structured product that we would never use. And I agree, I would never use that product either, but these, these videos never, they don't understand it. And here's, here's where the, well, before we get to what we're working on now and why to do back to your questions, like some of the challenges are critiques, like, when you have that lens, and always it's the lens, we combat every time this is not an investment. Stop saying, why would I put money in here when I could put money in the market? Right. We, all of these things, there's a lot of things that are like require, I don't think there's holes in the book in the sense that it just requires understanding

1:31:23what we're trying to do and why. And then it's like, okay, that makes sense. Like this talking point is no longer valid. But then there's other things where the talking points, the criticisms are flat out wrong. Like the, the, the insurance company keeps the cash value and only pays you the death benefit. There's things like mechanically, structurally, actually, wearily speaking are, are textbook incorrect. They say they keep the cash value, but they don't pay the death benefit. What that tells me is that you don't know what cash value is. You have no idea what cash value is. And so, act from an actual world perspective, you can be proven wrong, but someone who's dead set on that is not even interested in hearing it. And all they're going to do is comment in the comment section. And then when you say no, act from rarely speaking, the cash value is the net present. Like you can have this conversation and you're like, whatever loser, you're just trying to get a commission. You know, like those kind of conversations are pointless. But I say that I'm sympathetic to them just because I had them, I held them and I confronted them. And I think intellectual honesty requires that you consider them back that maybe you are wrong and be willing, you know, Bayesian updating, when you get a new piece of information, you incorporate that into your decision making process, even if that means discarding previously held assumptions, right?

1:32:24Yeah. Which is extremely hard to do, especially now. I mean, especially when we're sitting at a place in time where the person that's leading the country cannot possibly be wrong. And so it's like, what a representation of the problem with our country when you can't take a step back and be like, maybe the things that I thought were true or the things that I said were not exactly wrong. Like I love being wrong and then learning the right, you know, outcome solution, whatever it is, like that allows me to grow and all outside of like understanding contracts and guarantees and stuff where not to be wrong because it's contractually in there. Outside of that, it gives you the platform to be like, I'm so open to just being like, oh, teach me more. That's how I'm going to raise my level and earn. And I'm always open to

1:33:28re-evaluating my opinion on something when talking to somebody who knows more about something. But boy, just the perfect row model for the person that's like, nope, you're just you're an idiot. And you know, this guy proves that I can just have one opinion and it's, you know, roll with that. And that's what we don't do too much. We don't do any marketing besides our podcasts. Like I view the podcast as very kind of like self filtering. Like if someone, like we're not shy in our beliefs. And so people that aren't going to align with us and we're not going to be a good fit generally don't make their way on our calendar, which is, which is okay. And I want to work with someone who's willing to accept that maybe they were wrong. Now a lot of our clients come from our military, our pilot group, right? Because the guys that just got their entire perception on the military, their career path, the medical industry, healthcare, when that all gets shattered, you're right for thinking everything else might be off now. So we have a pretty big percentage of our

1:34:29clients that are from that group slash kind of networking out from there. A lot of airline pilots, a lot of guys that, you know, because they're on pilots to fly with each other. So you spend eight hours with somebody in the cockpit and have conversations. We have a lot of airline pilots, we have a lot of military pilots, military officers, and then a lot of friends and family of those. And I'd say network and referrals is our biggest source of business. And then the podcast, but other than that, like we're not doing marketing because I have had someone who's been a big advocate of infinite banking. I don't really think you understood it. He saw me out, wanted to talk about it. I kind of got like you kind of know what you're talking about. But not really. He's since passed unfortunately about a month ago at 48. But he would send me all kinds of people. He'd be like, I'm going to say I'm going to I have so many referrals for him. Like, awesome. This is great. I'm kind of pretty new in the business. I could use this. But he's sending me people that are like, Matthew said to get on your calendar about like an infinite account or something. And as soon as you hear that you're like, you don't want to be here. You're just doing it, you know, like, or like I'm here to get an I.U.L. I think because like pace Morby said that that's

1:35:31how you buy cars effectively. Like, what are we doing here? And so though I got I got like overloaded with these clients where I knew like, this is not a good fit. And so I'll work with you here if you want. But like, this is I don't think this is what you're looking for. You haven't come through the required educational process of either watching a video, reading a book, did it, it's just knowing what the concept actually stands for. IBC. Like, yeah, there needs to be some sort of filtering, which like you said, the podcast normally is now or that or some referral from somebody that has a policy that's done. You know, probably a half-ass job explaining in most cases what it actually is, but still that's better than the person off a TikTok that's like, heard that I can take loans from my death benefit right when we start. And I got a line to credit. You know, yeah, exactly. I tell every client like, I want this to be the asset that you understand the most out of all of your assets. So you mean probably fell into a 401k. We've talked about like,

1:36:33you know, the concept of financial drunk drawer. You have all these disparate products, but this one, I want you to be able to explain to your wife exactly what you have and why and why we structured it the way we did. Doesn't mean you have to eat and breathe it like I do. So that's what we're here for. We're going to continue working with you at one year. We'll check in and we'll have big, you know, hey, I know that a lot of the stuff you got excited about now that this next premium is coming and doing. Maybe it slips. Let's have a conversation. Let's just refresh them. What we're trying to do. We are here for full service. We have clients who use us for everything. Let's say, hey, I want, can you get me alone for this or set me up? We'll do all of that for you if you want. And we have clients who do it all themselves, but we want to be there for you because affect, you know, legally, there's no obligation for ongoing service. We are a middleman between you and the insurance company. They contract. They work through us to help be the conduit to bridge that to, like, you don't work directly with them for the most part. And so once that contracts enforce, it's a two party contract. And we're not a part of it, right? So technically, there's no legal obligation for us to do anything at all because we can't do anything other than asking.

1:37:33But we want to be there for ongoing service. And most people have lives and jobs and they don't, they don't obsess over the stuff the way that we do. And they're not monitoring their policy. Like we are monitoring their policies more than they are in a lot of cases. And so we want to be there. Our motto is stopping a passenger, stopping a passenger in your fine and your family's financial journey. We want you to be in the cockpit with us. And so like you, you're flying the plane, but we will sit there as your co-pilot. And you know, we need to take the wheel to the degree that you need us. We are there. So that's kind of the philosophy we take with it. And you asked about the book and some of the criticisms. Like I don't think there's valid criticisms when, when framed correctly, like it all makes sense. And I can still see a route where someone's like, this just doesn't make sense for me. But I get what you're saying. And I've never had someone who comes to the table with these objections, who hasn't left at least saying like, even though I don't plan to implement this, I get why this talking point was wrong. Right. Again, if you think that the the company keeps the cash value, but only pays the death benefit, that means you don't understand

1:38:38what cash value is. You're objectively wrong. And so when you have it, when you teach someone that, they can be like, all right, cool. I still don't love cash value as much as you do, but I see what you're saying. I've had conversations like that before too. But where I think not that it's wrong, for say, but where I think just like anything, it can be oversinstationalized. So the guys that are so much like a Nelson Nash purist that every single expense runs through IBC because you don't want to do business with banks. It's like on the philosophy spectrum, I'm a like, I'm an extremist, I guess I'm a nationalist. I'm all about dismantling, you know, government down to the bare bones. And I don't trust the Fed. I don't trust policy makers all of that. But at the same time, I'm going to do business with banks when it's convenient and suitable and makes more sense. Like I will, for instance, we got a new car recently. And the options were cash value. I had the cash value available or finance with the bank. I'm not going to pay cash,

1:39:39right? Pank the Dave Ramsey method is stupid. Unless you're bad. That is the worst. If you are bad with money and you would otherwise siphon that money away, if that money would get spent over the course of the next two years, that money is just going to leave your economy. Pank cash could make sense. And there is people I know I can name people where it would make sense for them to pay cash because they don't have a next best use case, right? So when, and that's part of the individuality of this, and that's why I hate so much when it's like a blanket case, whether it's four or against whole life, and usually it's against nobody should have whole life. Like that kind of statement is is criminal if you're licensed, but it's irresponsible if you're not licensed. And so the idea that like everyone should have whole life or everyone should pay cash, we talk about the reason and the reason you said like paying cash is the worst option is because we give up that money. In our case, $60,000 for a car, you give a stack of $60,000, $60,000, $60,000 for a high society there. You give that up and it can never earn for you again. But what if you don't have the financial IQ to earn from that? What if your best case of your next best use of

1:40:43money is sitting in check and account? And then it's just going to get spent, right? Not that like, we would look at that. We would say, Hey, I can make 10% here. I can make 12% here. If I take a little more risk at an X 15% here, but certainly I'm not going to give up my 60 grand because then it'll never earn for me again. Like when you understand that when you're at that level, yes, spending cash is the worst thing you could do. If the money would otherwise sit in your checking account and you instead would siphon that money out on. Yeah, all sorts of while also paying the dealership interest on a car loan. Well, in that case, yes, your best case is probably using cash. And so it's it depends on the person. But in our case, I said, I'm not going to spend my cash. I'm going to keep my interest. The decision to me is cash value, policy loan or a dealer loan. And I said, I'm not going to I'm not going to pass up being able to get 4% on a car loan. When that's like for you know what I mean? Like so I opted for I opted for the for the dealership loan because I want to keep my 60 grand and I want to pay them time. And I don't mind paying the interest to them because I'm the 60 grand

1:41:44for me could either be making more for me in low stress options or other investment vehicles or building my business, my new business from in front here. I want that money to be working for me. And so when I stack those things up, getting back to my philosophy on this, I chose to do business with banks, I take out a car loan because that was a better like I have a better uses for my 60 grand that's in cash value. Then putting it into a car, right? And so that that kind of analysis is like it's very independent to the person. Do you have a better next use of capital? Do you have the discipline and spending habits to let that money get siphoned away? Or are you going to responsibly store it? So there's a lot to that decision. But I think that when guys are so dogmatic about you will know I can never do business with banks. I'll take out a loan for everything like it's dreams are never good in really any any scenario. But I'm on board 100% with what you said. I think what this concept and the product provides you that is the most valuable is optionality. And at the end

1:42:47of the day, I want to have the choice to again, I'm not paying cash just because I know I know but go and get the 4% rates on the financing the vehicle and keeping my cash liquid for opportunities and have the availability to pay the loan off if something happens and take back control of that specific loan itself. Or again, sit on my money and wait for whatever the drop real estate to drop, the market to drop, you know, get in low on stocks, whatever it is and just create that optionality. So like you said, much like understanding where you excel at the person who maybe isn't that knowledgeable about investing or or growing their capital is going to say, hey, I want to use on the policy loan for the car because I know I can play good banker and pay myself back and have more control and cool. That's awesome. That is a great way to do it. But the person that's a

1:43:50little bit more investment savvy is like, no, I want to keep my capital dry, especially if I can get a lower percentage than the insurance company may be charging me to get access to that capital. It's all a game, but it's all optionality. One thing I want to go back on, you mentioned kind of the way that you approach handling your clients and the back and forth and how much they want to be involved or not be involved. And I think that's where your sister and arms are now mutual friend Natalie with what she's creating with policy stack is going to be fantastic and I'll have to update you. There's some big changes that we've been doing. But just that layer of communication that we're now able to have with clients visually showing them and them having a place where it's not just I'm just logging into this one thing that the carrier provides me and I'm looking at these few numbers and I'm trying to project out different scenarios or doing this on a spreadsheet like

1:44:52the majority of us have done actually having this like living breathing system where I'm able to get in here and coach and teach and then on the client side actually see what I'm doing whether it's tracking debts whether it's tracking notes investments whatever it is like having this actual thing that I can utilize and be coached through is going to be massive for just our clients and I think the the IBC community in general. So really looking forward to that. I know that you kind of nerded out with her a little bit a few times about some of the things that are available there. But I know you're excited about that. I'm very excited and this obviously your your community is your audience is tracking that for ours and with your permission all if I use this as an episode this will be the first time that most of our clients are hearing about policy stack. I've talked to a few individually but because it's not quite ready for like full public clients right now. So sort of the beta testing just just to tease it for our for my audience if they listen to this on

1:45:53our podcast. Imagine having like a betterment personal capital like financial dashboard like you have for your assets and your general portfolio strategy but having that for your policies and kind of incorporating the two things together. It's an incredible tool and I I'm hoping to have Natalie on the podcast sometime soon to talk about it and walk through it. But yeah we have the ability on the advisor side to interact with these policies and with clients and you have the ability to see your cumulative cash value talk about a loan strategy. You know it was cool like having a call with the client recently that wanted a loan strategy discussion. I was able to pull up mine and just say here's this tool that we could potentially use and here's how you can go through you know different scenarios of how you pay this thing back and and on that the loan paybacks that's and that's kind of like you asked how I'm using my policies and that is one thing that I do differ from kind of the I be the NNI purists in how I treat my policy loans and I don't think I'm like unique in this area. I think I heard more people saying it this way

1:46:55than I do the purists like don't steal the peas pay back your loans always all explain because I'm sure we're probably on a very similar page with this. Yeah okay so in this case let's say I if I had taken out that policy loan to buy the car that doesn't generate income for me at all right all I'm gonna do like I'm gonna continue to pay that policy loan I fully buy into this idea of don't steal the peas treat my cost to capital treat my capital with as much urgency as I treat chase banks capital right I get that I fully support that for something like a car that is not producing asset I will look at that I'll say here's what I would have paid Calco's credit union here's what I'm gonna pay my policy instead and maybe I pay more maybe I pay the same but yes I agree I'm fully there. If I'm buying income producing assets that are generating a positive arbitrage if I'm outperforming what the interest on the policy loan is generating I don't see the incentive to pay that back presuming a couple of things right again back to individual behavior but I'll speak to my specific situation I use my policy for investment and growth I use my cash

1:47:57value I've acquired rental properties I'm trading options out of it invested in a real estate syndicate I'm funding the build out of my new business into a degree from my policy and my cash value because I have rental properties in there which can have calls to your repairs I don't tap it out to the top I don't go 98% of my cash value right I don't max out my loans I keep a buffer say 15 grand or something of not borrowed capital that's my dry powder on my investment side of the strategy my wife's policy she's a pretty large policy we use that as the emergency fund I want a year the way that I calculated I use fact and financials runway strategy when I'm calculating it where they basically say looking at your expenses they dial it down to a daily burn rate so I take in all my monthly expenses all my annual expenses all my variable expenses fixed expenses everything and I say here's how much I spend in a year and I'd be generous on this I am generous on this calculation this is including like eating out and subscriptions and things that if I had to trim down in an emergency would get cut but currently at my current expenditure

1:49:03what's my daily burn rate and then I subtract out fixed expenses I get a VA disability check so I subtract that out because that's going to come in no matter what right and I say okay here's my actual capital need for the year here's my burn rate on what I what I need to produce in order to live on top of what I'm getting on the guaranteed side now I take that and I look at my wife's count and on my spreadsheet it shows how many days of runway we have so my goals to maintain 365 days of runway at current expenses which means that if we actually had a situation where we're kind of going in survival mode I'm not making income we do want to travel for a year or whatever we'll probably trim down a lot of that so that 365 might expand but I keep 365 days of expenses in her policy even though I'm not touching that to go invest now is it a better use of capital and this gets into your whole paradigm on financial list the CFP model they'd say well why would you keep money here when you can make more money elsewhere I'd say okay well show me your phone you probably have an iPhone right yep why if you just need to make calls why would you not buy a flip phone and invest the money elsewhere well because this has a different purpose

1:50:04than simply making phone calls right in the same vein why would you keep a savings why would you have an emergency fund why would you keep $10,000 an emergency fund when you confess in the market and make more well because the report card for those dollars is being evaluated every dollar has the same suite of possible attributes but at wherever it's housed wherever the vehicle that dollar is in whether it's in the savings account stock account options trading crypto real estate all of these places where dollars could reside they each have different traits that they're fulfilling and you want to match the role in the need for those roles so my savings dollars their their role is to be guaranteed and liquid and that's it small small yield maybe but that's it yes I could make more money on an emergency fund by investing but that's not the purpose of those dollars in the same vein I could make more money by leveraging my wife's policy to acquire cash flow producing assets and that would get me more dollars on net most likely right but that's not the purpose of those dollars and so that's where I could have tapped and said I'll take a policy loan from that savings vehicle and I tapped that and go by the car but that's not the use of those dollars

1:51:07those my my policy is used for investment and there on on that note I don't pay I don't set a policy loan repayment schedule for myself above the interest rate for me I keep it principle I keep it interest only I know going into the year I have my interest rate Lafayette says here's the percentage that you're going to pay on interest this year I say okay cool I can calculate my cost of capital say I have 130 grand outstanding loan I calculate my cost of capital for the year sweet it's going to cost me $7,200 for the year in order to let $130,000 work for me right these are out these dollars are out performing their employees they're working out in their jobs for me earning a yield right I'm it's costing me $7,200 to do that I'm not going to repay those policy loans because if I do I free up that capital yes but then I want to get them out deployed again I want them I want I don't want them doing one job I want them doing two jobs and so I don't view this idea of you know say like well treat your call your capital the same urgency as you a treat chase banks well if chase bank would offer me a a an unscheduled unamortized loan on these terms I would treat

1:52:10chase banks money the same way if they gave me basically a free guaranteed advance and I just had to pay $7,200 a year to have 130 out working for me I'm going to do the same thing and so that's is how I would treat chase his money so I view I separated into those two categories primarily as a starting point of when people ask about should I pay my policy loan I said well the Nelson asset you should always pay your policy loan but I kind of think depending on what the loan is doing for you might not make sense and so and it's not like you know people I don't think I don't think advisors and I don't think clients are wrong who have the inclination to pay back every policy loan regardless of what it's doing on a fixed schedule because that's how they view it like it's not a wrong thing to do we just have to understand like we have to separate philosophy from mathematics and then they overlap but they don't they're not a perfect overlapping like you paying principle on your mortgage an addition to your mortgage payment is mathematically inferior from a perspective of how do we optimize for the long term it is again unless you have no use of money if you can make money anywhere else you shouldn't pay principle on your mortgage if your goals you have the most

1:53:12money later on and have them with cash flow now right but that doesn't hold water for someone who deeply values shortening the length of their mortgage doesn't resonate with me doesn't mean you're wrong if you view that way but understand it and that's where the gap is in the for the CFP model they're not teaching you when you pay principle only on your mortgage is shaving time off the back in but it's doing nothing for your cash flow now right used to all the same check to them regardless and so those kind of conversations are the ones that we want to have and getting into what we're building we want to bridge the gap between iBC and CFP I see a large gap there and having now gone through series 65 securities license seal you working on CFP having gone through a lot of the actual coursework and curricula for these designations and licenses I understand why there is such an enormous gap there I understand why life insurance is one misunderstood and two wildly underutilized is because you don't have to learn anything about this and so I think you've

1:54:15probably had and it's every iBC advisor has probably had clients that say hey I get this I like my policy I understand what I'm doing I'm generating cash value but my CFP doesn't understand he's like he's furious he's blown his mind that he's paying 30 that I'm paying 30 grand in whole life premium can you I try to explain it to him but I just I don't live eat and breathe this stuff can you hop on a call with him and just explain it to him I've done that so many times and after a while I'm like you have no idea that the the power of cash value as an asset to them cash value is just okay it's it's something that the policy slowly builds and yes you have a contractual right to part to borrow it if you want to pay interest and that's it we move on insurance can be encapsulated in if you want temporary coverage for cheap you buy term if you want permanent coverage for more expensive you buy whole life and if you want to tack on some market exposure you buy an iE well pick one of those three and let's move on that is all you really need to know and the I mean in the CLU course even there's very little mention of a policy loan it talks about how in the

1:55:21textbooks you can take a policy loan it's like oh yeah and that is something you can do is you can borrow against the cash value but walking through a mechanically like you have no need to understand these things that are central to us in the iBC world these these pivotal concepts and mechanics that are so important and so powerful when understood and utilized correctly you don't even need to know they exist or if you know they exist it's like you read two sentences about it and so I understand why the CFP world from an education perspective I don't you know like part of the thing you sign up when you're your CFP part of the charter part of the requirement that you have to make with the American college when the grant you the CFP is that if you don't understand something their code of ethics says if you're not qualified to speak on something you need to outsource it in find certain yeah or you know yeah we're learning yes yes exactly now I think that every CFP that doesn't understand these facets of life insurance is violating that code of ethics I'll call it out I think that's actually happening I think that every time you have someone is like oh no you don't need whole life is just over you're just overpaying for coverage doesn't that doesn't

1:56:23take the time to think through and explain what cash value is as an asset how it stacks up on the report card of traits of a dollar and how the policy loan tool works and how it's a phenomenal tool in your tool belt in the right situation in most situations to have in the tool about it like it it makes you're so much more powerful in approaching decisions I don't think you can fulfill your fiduciary duty and uphold the American colleges code of ethics for CFPs if you don't understand life insurance inside and out and so that's what I'm trying to do is bridge that gap I want to be the I'm not I'm not currently a CFP I'm rapping I'm working on syllabus just to get the designation because doesn't really matter you don't need to be a CFP but like for some clients it matters they want to see those letters right and so I'm securities license now I'm not a CFP but I'll say when I am a CFP I want to be the CFP that the IBC community wishes existed and I view this as defensive coordinator and offensive coordinator if we're playing this out let's not let's just pretend I'm not an IBC guy I'm working with you you have a client when the main thing where I see the value

1:57:26proposition here is in the drawdown phase in the decumulation mode right which nobody gets just thought about yeah that is the portion that nobody teaches you got me here cool how do I use this because I just spend all these years doing something basically ingraining this thought process where I'm not going to touch this money I haven't been touching this money now you want me to take it all out and use it but I'm just supposed to follow this generic 4% rule like that makes no sense yeah like anyone I mean a cloud description can get you index funds to get a large pile of taxable assets a 65 like you don't need an advisor to get to just invest in the market like in last 30 years like the debatement of the dollars can continue as the price inflation is going to continue you don't need to pay someone to get you a large pile of money if you just invest it for 30 years right that's not where the value proposition is now we're going to have some alternative investments we're going to have some SPV plays we're going to be an options trading as a service and we're going to have a model portfolio that I'm building out that I think is like distilling everything that I think like I spend hours every day learning about and studying markets and

1:58:29economics and trying to distill everything I learn into a portfolio that that is buffer against what's coming that's one of the things I want to offer but in general besides that where the value really is is I think when we think about weight fows work Tom Walls work Ernst & Young study all these studies that say coupling these things together to the tune of maybe 30% and fixed i.e. whole life and annuities something wrote talks about a lot on your pockets in mind the idea that if you can trim out the three or four worst market years and a 30 year selection how much more money you have a deal you're cooking yeah it's crazy and this is this is like if you're a client of shawns and a client of mine on the C.F. P.S.I.I.I. I think I could be the offensive coordinator shawns the defense equipment you're the protections and savings like we always say we're not financial advisors I protect save grow in that orders our motto our framework we are protection savings advisors we're not financial advisors now I want to be a financial advisor but in this relationship this is how the conversation should go it should be hey shawne the mark is down 10% right now and and the Smiths need $10,000 for this month I don't

1:59:31really want to touch I don't really have a good asset here that I can touch I'm looking at the tax loss harvesting I'm looking at our cost basis but the mark is down 10% I'd rather be hands off and let this recover without locking in these losses right hey what do you have on cash value side and you say hey we're good to go we have five years of runway bro we're good let's take 10 grand this month from cash value and when the market recovers maybe we can start moving and pay that back but like I want to I want these these coordinated conversations to happen between your offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator and the value here is like if you're an offensive coordinator you're not playing defense you're not on defense but you your whole job is studying and defeating defensive right so you so you're not training the cornerbacks you're not training the D line but you know exactly what they're going to do and when because you understand your whole role is understanding defense that's the thing of like a defensive coordinator has to understand offense that's our whole mission is to counter the offense and so coming from this perspective of I'm an IBC guy at heart I'm at core I'm a pure Nelson Nash IBC guy I understand what you are teaching

2:00:33your clients I understand exactly how you're positioning life insurance and having these conversations now when we when clients say to us hey all right cool I've got this cash value what do I do with it well for those clients who want someone in the cockpit with them doing AUM that want to be doing the asset management side that's traditional CFP like we have clients we have a CFP partner and they're like hey I just want to do retirement planning I don't want to think about all this I get it becoming I'm stopping a passenger I'm becoming one banker like I'm getting it I want to be a part of this I'm involved I'm not I'm gonna stop outsourcing my knowledge I get it but like I have a job I'm a well I'm a welder I'm a pilot I'm a whatever like I can't spend all of my time thinking about managing my portfolio can you do it for me so we've sent guys to a referral partner who's a CFP we send people to partners who do turnkey rentals that do options trading right like these different ways to grow your money well one of them I want to offer is hey if you want asset management and if in beyond just the typical you know invest a 65 but if you want like an actual offensive coordinator that's gonna work with your IBC guy that's gonna work with Sean and understands

2:01:36exactly how he's positioning it so we don't have this hostile conversation where it's like you did what with my clients money you put 30 grand into a holiday policy to them that is like that is criminal but to me it's criminal that you don't understand anything about whole life insurance and so how do we bridge this gap how do we synthesize these two things into one holistic strategy that speaks together and and it's like I think that there's a great value proposition here for both you know we're gonna we have our clients that have talked express interest and joining but also like you as an IBC advisor if you send clients our way you'll have a legally bound binding signed agreement from us that we will not do any insurance business right like we want to offer this to the IBC community and we haven't really talked to most many people I've talked to you but really I think you're the only IBC advisor that I've really kind of vetted this through like how does this sound kind of thing but like that's my pitch to the IBC advisors who might be listening is hey I'm not gonna do any insurance business with any of your clients in fact I will have a legally binding agreement that says I cannot do insurance policies for your clients but when you have clients that want someone to be their asset manager they want a CFP even though they're

2:02:41taking control that's well that's where I want a position remnant frontier and they have in my thought processes like I have clients who have these assets that I can't give them any advice on because I'm not you know I'm not qualified to do so so I can give my opinions on what I might do in my own personal situation but to have somebody on your team that you're able this is how I pitch it to my clients as far as what I've currently set up with my five pillars and you know you've got your whole life is the the foundation you've got your investing you've got your annuity your guarantee portion you've got your long-term care and then you've got your tax strategy and your your trust set up like that is if we can check all of these boxes off you're gonna be good the idea and what you're talking about I think is just adding another piece to that more that normal person family office style thing because now we're having communication within these different parts of our financial system that are talking to one another and that are

2:03:46on the same page because almost always like you said the CFP is not down with what you're doing with your whole life policy or what you're doing on this IBC side over here so it creates that that lack of communication even if I wanted to chat with your CFP and create some sort of game plan they're like I don't even like or respect what you're doing over here I think this is joke so there's disconnect in that ends up working out poorly for our client that again should be the number one focus so bringing that in-house and creating again this family style office atmosphere where we've got people that we refer out to for long-term care we have people that we refer we refer out to for annuities we have people that we refer out to for tax strategy and you know out the Travis McBride our boy so all sorts of these great again family office style communications like we have amazing communication with Travis we have I have again we have tax people we have trust people where they all get the idea of what this is and what we're trying

2:04:49to accomplish here so I think it's I think it's great I think you guys are going to do fantastic and again I have multiple clients that have assets that I can't give them advice on that it's like hey let me go plug you in with this person that knows exactly what you're doing and what the plan is and they will give you the guidance that you need to help grow those assets or do whatever you feel is necessary with them but I think it's well overdue and yeah I'm looking forward to it on our end I do want to touch on you've mentioned it multiple times and I want to touch on it because mention this in multiple of my podcast is the options thing so I actually found out about low stress options trading through you guys through your podcast I think originally I had heard you talk about it when you first mentioned it and I was in the mindset that at that time I'm like I don't do anything in the market I don't know anything about the market so when you guys

2:05:54mentioned I'm like not doing it not taking that on don't care and then I believe you had Troy on and you spoke again about it and I listened to that I'm like damn I would be stupid if I didn't look more into this and check this out and again that was quite some time ago and so I ended up getting tuning into one of their overviews got on the phone with Brian kind of ran through it vetted it and everything and Amanda and I liked what the opportunity was we like the control we like the skill set that we were picking up and we had been quote unquote burned by a couple of middlemen prior to this and we're like how do we take back more control of our money and kind of again get back in the cockpit of what's going on with the situation to an extent and we know that the market is great for growth if you know what you're doing to an extent there's a lot of opportunity there so I just want you to quickly talk on your personal experience that you've had I

2:06:59know you've had many clients that have joined in and and taken part but just nothing is perfect we know IBC isn't perfect or whole life insurance isn't perfect we know none of these vehicles are perfect but for the person like us that came in with no experience on anything about options if you ask me what an option was I would told you I have the option to do one thing or the other thing I have no idea what this is and so we've been doing it I don't know coming up on five or six months now it's been a little while and again not perfect but boy the trajectory of what is possible not just on the income side but like the flexibility and if we wanted to play in the market how people normally get into the market and how they're extremely worried about downturns and how there's no upside to downturns there just I want you to talk a little bit about that your experience and we're approaching a two hour mark again I have I don't care how long we go but I'm sure I'm under that I'm here for it um yeah so so Brian introduced this to me Brian found it

2:08:04through the Tom Woods network that he's a big part of and we have since got about 50-55 of our clients that are that are trading and we have a group chat for clients that are options traders and it's phenomenal because it's like constant chatter about tickers we like questions you can ask dumb questions in there without you know getting getting some dumb questions yeah um so we we have a great community that of ours that clients that are doing this and the cool thing is it's not just like everything it's not hidden knowledge it's just options trading is an enormous market it's huge and um and the founder of this of the strategy basically just spent a few years back testing and trying different things until he came up with a framework that is reliable enough to conservatively sell options i.e. in our case selling insurance to people that think this market's going to go up which I'm of that mindset again that congress is going to keep spending beyond

2:09:04the the budget therefore the treasury has to continue to offer debt and when the debt is not fully purchased by the market the Fed comes in and has to buy those indirectly through primary dealers but basically the the money supply is going to continue to increase because we have to keep making enough money to at least pay the interest on the debt which I believe any second now will hit 40 trillion and so uh all that to say I think the market's going to keep going up which means that's the price inflation most of what we're seeing in a stock market is asset price inflation in my opinion over the last 30 years this bull run is asset price inflation and so if that's going to continue which I believe it is then i'm generally long the US market right it's i always see it as a pressure release valve for the additional money that's being you know poured in firehosed in um through programs like qe which are which is kind of paused right now but like it's going to come back when it needs to right they're not going to let the economy they they've shown that they are not like that the stock market matters and they are going to disregard economic fundamentals sound economics in order to keep the market from the catastrophic collapse that

2:10:05might otherwise happen if we had a sound monetary system now i'll have to say people are long and people want to buy and hope that their stocks go up that is the entire CFP model right everything we just talked about like buying index funds because the market always goes up right well if you believe that there is a way within options to sell insurance against that happening to people and collect the premium and if the market goes down then you are telling them that you will buy those shares at a higher price than the price than the market currently is now if you set that target price below where it currently is you can generally look at the the numbers and find a way where say there's about a 20% likelihood that this actually gets assigned the mark the stopdrocks lower but there's 80% chance that it goes up and this expires worthless and we keep the premium so we've used as an income strategy and we had really good success with it when you track it as income generated now there's going to there's a lot of heartache when people don't fully understand and grasp the difference between what their brokerage shows and net liquidation value and what the platform shows

2:11:06on those are options because you could see a lot of people are looking at their balances on those are options and looking at their shrub brokerage accounts and seeing that one is twice as much as the other and what gives right you have to really understand what we're measuring here what each side is measuring and how the real answer i think is somewhere in the middle but i i got excited about this because i took a i took a derivatives class at Harvard Laws and elective again hypernurred i took derivatives and basically to learn options trading from a from a securities licensed professional who wrote a book on options trading so i approached it from like the i am deep into the weeds trying to understand options let me check out this strategy Brian approach it from much like you like i i know what they are but i don't know anything i don't know anything about i trade them that was actually a better intro i think is going in blank slate yes and i should be encouraging if you're like i have no idea what you're saying right now you should be encouraging that you can go through this training i would say i would say commit yourself to a month of going through this training as many the court training as much

2:12:08many times you can and then you realize okay this is a pretty simple entry parameters that the founder Troy has created if i stick to these parameters i have a pretty high likelihood of collecting this income and the option expiring worthless now in a big market downturn a lot of people are seeing that's where we get into the difference in the balance there but we need to understand how they're calculated and you need to understand that i don't view this as money that i need in one year if you view this as like a savings vehicle and you're trading options and you get assigned in down market you're going to be you're going to be locking in you're me stressing it's going to be very high stress options and so view this as something that's a long term play at least give yourself a two-year window before you're touching this money but when you view it that way now that's touching the principle that you put in because you can still in the meantime generate income and that's where this really has a powerful strategy and something that i know that Sean and i both resonate with is the idea of cash flow over net worth okay or what my net worth is obviously a net worth likely means i have more cash flow potentially but it doesn't have to me i would

2:13:08rather have guaranteed cash flow and then above that i would rather have uncertain but fairly predictable cash flow and so that's what we're trying to do here is we're trying to generate income each week by selling these contractual rights and there's ways when you understand the mechanics of it how you can what we call roll it out i know Sean's explained all this and so like you don't have to quite understand this but i think it's worth it if Sean has like he can put his referral link for this in in the notes if you haven't already done it go click on his link explore it there's a pretty long copy page but it's worth 30 minutes if you're time and obviously there's pretty long an understatement but yeah if there's a 5% chance that this could drastically change the same thing we say about i b c like is it worth 30 minutes or an hour of your time to see if we can drastically change the course of your financial future this is not a magic bullet but it is a very strong candidate for for for how you interact with the market and a way that i love it though you know beyond just the income side and think about portfolio management i'm working on what i'm calling reminthesis which is a model portfolio that captures what i think is the the the best

2:14:13long view like the 10 year view of where these current trends are going a lot of a i plays are going to hit a lot of them are going to flop but there's obviously market momentum there right so how do we analyze this and that's what i'm working on so if i have a if i've identified stocks that i really like well i could i make income on selling at the entry point that they're currently at collect income lower my cost basis a little bit and then accept that if it drips dips down a little bit i'm okay with it because this is a 10 year play for me and now i own the shares and so i don't mind the fact of you know a lot of us are pretty heavy into tech and a i stocks right because that's what was surging so we're selling those those are what are popping up on the tracker now i'm assigned on a lot of those now i own the shares again it doesn't have to make sense if you if you if you know the strategy or you understand options it makes sense i've been assigned on these but i'm okay owning these because i believe long term this is where the momentum in the market's going so it kind of already aligns with what i call reminthesis which will be that portfolio that i'm generating myself and so there's a very powerful income strategy component to this and you give yourself

2:15:14plenty of conservative birth when i'm planning for this like i said i'm not touching this money for a few years i don't need it for a few years and also i'm assuming half the returns that i'm whatever i'm currently making of my average return if you get an average rate of returns a fallacy i beat that dead horse on probably ten like that so it's i don't trust average rate of return and the kind of the selling point of this strategy is we're targeting 1% income per week now you're not actually going to hit that it's going to be variable right but generally speaking if you can do that i whatever my current average is i take that and half and say if i make 50% of what i'm currently making on average when i'm making future projections so be conservative with it don't view this as like every dollar is going to pour into this but it's a very strong asset within your portfolio and that's something within reminth frontier i will be if this is going to be kind of a tailored side sort of like a sleeve of this but you know for a certain limited number of clients with a minimum threshold of starting capital i'm going to be doing options trading as a service as part of our offerings within reminth frontier um but i think it's worth your time i mean and and don't be

2:16:19don't be persuaded to not act by the fact that you have no idea what an option is but they listen to this podcast they know that i mean and i had zero clue what any of this stuff was and we're having a good amount of success with it like you said i think you guys have but of everyone who's like learn this, vetted it and is doing it themselves i think the way that you presented where you show your weekly receipt in these episodes like i think that is the the best possible way to do it because it shows this is this is legitimately income that hit our account we can show exactly how much and even if it's ten bucks if that ten bucks is one percent of the position size and you made that by selling that this week that's a very that's a really cool way to of kind of visualizing it i think that i think that everyone who saw the way that you guys did that was like oh damn i myself i was like shoot that that's the move i should why didn't i think of that that's a great way to walk through what you're doing and help teach it so i think it's i think i think everyone should they you owe it to yourself and you owe it to your your future to

2:17:22vet this and give it a shot because it is you know it's not foolproof like and nothing is again nothing is and just like with infinite banking one of the things i love about the lso the options trading thing is one long term thinking this is fantastic like it's it's it can be great whatever age you are but if you have a little bit longer runway the longer your runway the more beneficial this is going to be because like you said we know the market goes up over time so if i get assigned i now own stocks whatever i'm not worried because i know as long as i did my due diligence on the front end and i'm not holding you know some bs stock that i probably shouldn't trade in the first place but that that is going to go up over time so so love the time on your side thing the other thing i really love about this somebody asked me recently they're like you just like is it just like giving trades away like am i just doing copy

2:18:25trading or whatever no no no no this is a legitimate skill set that you now learn that you can take anywhere in the world and that was a big thing for us because Amanda my wife is going to be leaving her job when we move halfway around the world to Vietnam here in six months and we were looking for a replacement for her income and so this was really something that she was looking at doing and we were focusing on like hey what can we do to help replace this income we've got two very young kids now and the thought process was it needs to be efficient enough that we can do it in a reasonable amount of time and needs to be easy enough that you don't have to just spend the next year or two of your life trying to learn how to do this and it needs to be just something that you enjoy doing and so this like checks so many of those boxes and she's really been the one the spearhead like the learning process of course we both went through the training we both learned everything but she's the one actually active making the trades it legitimately takes her as a mom with a brand new

2:19:29three-week old baby at this point in time an hour or two at most a week to do this and the the income that it's been generating and again long-term thinking I've talked to people that I've referred that are like ah this might not be for me because they were looking for a little bit more immediate results cash flow I want to be spending this money right now so when I get a little tied up in my position oh no I'm not as liquid and you know the the cash flow isn't as good as it should be this is not for that this is that little bit more long-term like you said maybe two plus year time horizon but the longer the better and again the skill set that I now have that I can literally take anywhere like we stay in the community because there's tons of value that's provided there but boy we have this skill set now that look if we didn't ever if the community dissolved and you know nobody ever talked about LSO again like we would have this thing that we can go anywhere in

2:20:29the world and make money doing and at a pretty you know efficient clip so this paired with your policy I think is gold the time horizon for both of them is gold and you can say if you're not willing to invest a little time in yourself and learn about something that a lot of us have been saying could be a game changer for you especially paired with the policy if you have one then you know what are you doing what are our goals here let's figure that out this is my favorite this right now is the my favorite use of capital like this is the floor for a dollar to if I'm gonna take a cash value if I'm gonna take a policy loan dollar and put it somewhere this is the floor it has to be in order to be justifiable going somewhere else I just I do really love the strategy and I think that you're right it's not you're not just buying somebody else's picks and copy trading them you're learning a skill and close affordable it's phenomenal and man when you guys move to Vietnam like the portfolio size you would need to generate income to cover

2:21:29living expenses in Vietnam it's like you never need to really yeah like it's insane insane and so again I think one of the things that a lot of people should focus on is get clarity on what that number is for you what are we trying to obtain I talk about it in my book I talk about a lot on the podcast there has to be I'm not saying an end goal of like you know once I hit this I'm out or whatever but you got to kind of have that number where a lot you know the guys over at a wealth without Wall Street talk about you know your passive income number and expenses or income passive income greater than expenses equals freedom but you got to kind of figure out what that number is and to tie this to some other people the guys over at fact I'm really focused in on figuring out what that number is just like you talk about that burn rate I'm figuring out what I really spend what I need to spend versus what I have to spend and then again figuring out how we can start building something on top of that to start closing that gap as far as what income I have

2:22:34that's passive versus not passive and how I'm checking these boxes off to minimize that space between those two numbers and creating something you know that that's providing cash so I've loved it thank you guys so much especially obviously Brian for getting involved but for you being as knowledgeable as you are and doing your due diligence on it I'd love to talk to you more about it just outside of this and kind of look at some of the stuff that we're doing yeah for sure is can we could just keep going is is there with your when you're talking about policy loans and taking policy loans and what you're using your money for what is your thought process on all right so money comes into you are you constantly trying to max out what they give you for PUA is that like give me your your process of money comes in does it go here first we put in the options first I think a lot of times people are like I don't know what to do with the cash I just got where should it live first yeah I so on the question I have that I've had that specific

2:23:39question of I'm really interested in options I'm really interested in IBC should I fund my options account use the premium to or use the the the premium collected IE the income I make from the strategy to fund the premium in my policy or vice versa take a policy loan to fund the options for me it's a no-brainer it's not even a question is policy first because one is one a certain one is not and one you know if things go like if you have to liquidate some of your positions if you are in that in that situation where you've been assigned like you could be taking losses that are going to take a long time to recover from is on the income front and so I think I think that's a no-brainer but for me I like my I like my capital going into the policies first not to the extent of like when I when I get paid things that are required are just going to get paid like I'm not going to go 100% policy just because so that I can take out a loan to pay XYZ expense like not I'm not that I love PUA but it's like it's not it's not a filter for every dollar like I have a bypass valve

2:24:44but anything that's going to go into savings or investing that's going to go into PUA first and right now for the first three years I maxed out you know 50 grand a year in my policy just like balls to the wall everything is going in here right and it's a Lafayette policy which means that thing is pumping now right because I went heavy on PUA initially three years in like the way that they structure their policies um the it's at the point now where it's effectively you know cash on cash is I don't need to worry about as much PUA I still put PUA in but I have not maxed out this is the first year year four where I I changed my my withdrawals to base only and I'm not paying the PUA automatically I'm paying it in throughout the course of the year when I want to but I'm not super concerned about when and if I fully maxed out because I've gotten that policy efficient and now it's just like it's a it's a bonus for every additional dollar but at the same time it's same thing with my wife's policy it's the same way my daughter's policies I'm not as much

2:25:46I'm not putting as much in the PUA in their policies because it's such a long time like a long time horizon on them um but generally I do like to put as much as I can in there lately with Brian being deployed and our two-person business being cut in half um it's been a little bit of a slowdown for our business and I'm I'm focusing both time energy and capital on building out remnant frontier and so right now I'm not as I'm not as spring loaded for money to go directly into PUA PUA right now I'm paying a little bit each month and one thing I do is it's just as a like a tactic I guess um a personal strategy every time I want to call with a client and I want them to when they ask questions about well how do I actually pay a policy loan how do I actually take out a policy how do I mean what do you mean like how do I pay PUA is it just come out you know annually when I make my premium payment I have to pay the whole thing like when we're talking premium mechanics positive loan mechanics every call I log into my Lafayette portal and I say I'm just gonna show you in three button clicks click click click I just paid $50 a PUA I do $50 a PUA on

2:26:50every call not everyone or it doesn't make sense but like if we're talking premium mechanics I pay 50 bucks into PUA just to show them and then I also pay 50 bucks towards a policy loan just to show so every single call I'm doing that and it's sort of like you know I want them to see in the course of four button clicks how easy it is to do those things take it alone pay alone pay PUA premium and so I'm chipping a little bit in I mean there's like negligible but I'm chipping a little bit in here and there on every client call just to show them and then on top of that you know every week when I get paid a chunk goes into PUA unless it's like a really thin week because with this business it's naturally kind of cyclical and some weeks where like you know I I'm not gonna put anything in it like we get paid on Wednesday or we we pay ourselves on Wednesday so this morning I wake up I take my check I put it through my filter 30% of my business 70% personal 70% personal goes into this this this and this 10% to tie 10% here 15% here whatever and so at the end of the day I'm like I'm not gonna do any PUA I didn't do any PUA today right but every week I

2:27:50generally put something in there but I'm not dogmatic about it like every dollar has to go here first but especially now if it was my year one of my policy I would be but now that I've already gotten my policies to a point where they're efficient and every dollar in even if it's just base is already generating a dollar a cash value I don't like I don't buy I don't do the mentality of like now I'm never gonna put PUA in because the base is sufficient I don't like that approach but I'm also not I don't need to put in my full suite of P or my full allocation of PUA right now hopefully I max it out by the end of the year but if not I'm not but low stress I be seated like I'm not super worried about it I love it that's a great that's a great approach yeah I love that idea awesome damn man anything else we're gonna have to do another one yeah we're gonna have to do another one we'll do a part two where you guys you come on we'll introduce you I want to hear your background like moving to Vietnam like you got some crazy travel stories I

2:28:51want to hear so we'll have you back on and then we can you know take up all the other places we could take this one for sure for anybody listening to this right now that maybe in in the remnant finance sphere my intro story to this is not nearly as interesting as Hans is it yeah so man I think that was fantastic again quick shout out to show if you guys don't already know so I actually have a list of a playlist on Spotify that I put together that I share with clients and it's just kind of like an infinite banking education list I know that's not clear but I've got almost 90 hours in there and I just go through and I add podcast of people's stuff that I like across our industry again it's just called infinite banking education I think I have 121 people that

2:29:52follow that and listen to it but I updated on like a weekly basis because all I'm doing is consuming information so when I find good information like that crazy podcast that Caleb just did with Dave who unfortunately or Dan I'm sorry Dan who unfortunately passed away I'm like man ton of value in here I'm gonna add this to the playlist and then people can just go through and get a lot of different voices from you know different folks across the the industry but I have multiple of your guys stuff in there because again I think there's tons of value so I think most of the people that listen to what I do are very familiar with remnant finance if you guys are not go ahead and go check out their stuff I'll put the link for their podcast below I heard you talk about this with um David over at factum like it is a it is a how do I want to say this like there's no scarcity mindset with what we're doing here like I'm not worried that somebody's going to listen to this

2:30:56podcast and be like oh I think remnant is for me I don't want to work with Sean anymore or if I was considering working with Sean I think I'm now going to work with Hans like fantastic again we want you to work with whoever you want to work with the goal is to get you to where you want to be and we know if we do this at the level that we know that we can do it at serving you and providing you with value and information and coaching and mentorship so much more will end up coming our way and in a country of 300 plus million people and a debt clock that's taken like you said 40 trillion plus dollars basically like we know there's a need for what that what we're providing for people so whether you get it from me whether you get it from the guys over at fact and whether you get it from the guys at remnant whether you get it from whoever get it and then just figure out like hey these are the people that I align most with like I like these dudes so I just appreciate you coming on man and uh and sharing all this knowledge and wisdom and for the people that made it through two

2:31:56hours and 15 minutes of a podcast I thought this was fucking Joe Rogan for a second we were going in but yeah man looking forward to coming doing yours but anything else that you want to leave the people with before we wrap this up um well if if the idea of remnant frontier and what we're trying to pose there makes sense to you if you're a client of Sean's um you know right now my goal is doors open by the end of October um right now the interdians are currently working on the operating agreement the compliance consultants are doing their thing like the business business things are and it's all just kind of a waiting game when california gives us the effective registration so i'm targeting i'm hoping it's sooner but i'm hoping by the by the end of october we are ready and open for clients in the meantime it's kind of just generating a warm list like i can't commit i can't take any commitments i can't get any you know like nothing's like structural yet um so it's sort of sort of just vague warm interest but if you are interested and you want to shoot me an email uh we're on remnantfinance.com and then if you are an ibc advisor that's listening to this and

2:32:57somehow is made it this far um if you think that like that kind of working relationship you know is something like i would like to talk as well because what i do want is people that are somewhat interested i would like to see like hey how can i tailor some of our offerings to your clients how can we tailor what we're doing because i want this to be something that's so symbiotic with how you're already teaching your clients and so i i appreciate any feedback from ibc advisors who like hey if you did if you talked about this way if you did this i'd be more inclined um but yeah like reach out we're at remnantfinance.com you can find all of our stuff there um yeah i really appreciate you having me on man it's been a great conversation. Sure man and we'll do again another podcast on our end as that october date approaches if things you know start to uh come about they were like hey we're this is launching we're good we're close like let's get back on and talk about this but i think it's something that again a ton of people in our space we're going to tell you from again you can just not that we're trying to like block people off from some of the outside noise

2:34:01but there's a lot of BS noise out there that doesn't allow you to sift through the things that you actually need to be learning and hearing so again we don't think we're better than the people that are teaching you whatever they're teaching you but we just want you to get both sides of the coin so you can actually make the best decision for you and your family uh in your in your legacy and i think bringing this stuff in house is definitely the way to do that and having somebody that is not bias between one product or another product or one process and another process and it's really the fiduciary word is a complete fucking joke to me but somebody that actually has your best interest at heart um yeah because you know that's that's the way that we do things so i personally think that what we're going to offer is is different than your typical cfp like you're just middle of the bell curve cfp i think we're going to have a unique offering personally i'm really excited about it but even if not even if we are exactly identical in performance cost everything to your current cfp if there's this is one difference of

2:35:04we understand and utilize whole life we understand ibc and we know exactly what your what the like the conversations you've had with your ibc advisor like if we can at least just have a symbiotic a good relationship on that front where i'm my first question is going to be like how much life insurance do you have and do we need more like i think that this is so important it's not about let's peel away let's dial down a cost of life insurance so we can invest more like i i it's it's the opposite of what i want and so um so yeah so i think that i think we've got a good value proposition and i'm excited to offer to the ibc community looking forward to getting us started and i look forward to having you on our podcast as well yeah man well as always folks the information is free but the knowledge is priceless and catch on the next one and uh yeah thanks again man all right cheers thanks man peace yo thanks for listening to remit finance if you found any value at all in this episode please subscribe leave a review and share it with a friend remember true financial freedom comes from taking control of your personal economy and breaking free from the

2:36:07status quo so stop being a passenger in your family's financial future boldly take back control of your wealth until next time this is Brian and Hans signing off