E1183 - Love Island Reunion, Tori & Nick MAFS + DWTS Cast Reveal

0:00Did you play any sports, Susie? I dabbled in everything. I swam. I did soccer. Were you more nerdy or were you a popular kid? I was homecoming queen and prom queen. Oh my god. Okay. And I was friends with everybody because I loved everybody. You've always been crushing. So if you're high school reunion, it wouldn't be like, oh, look at what she made of herself. It'd be like, that fucking bitch. So for like superlatives, would it be like most likely to be famous? I actually one most likely to be famous. Yeah, it's like that. It's like that. That's the only... That's so funny. I planned the high school reunion and stuff like that. And I feel like I'm very like, I want everyone to come together. I'm just like a team player. We didn't have no reunions. My... Your class president didn't... We didn't have a 10 or 5 or 15... Or maybe I'm just not invited. You're crazy. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Valfiles

1:02Reader Recap Edition. My wonderful gorgeous exy wife. There it is. There it is. I like it. I don't care what the people say. Okay. We got Jimmy and Suzy on the couch. How's everyone doing? Great. How are you feeling? I'm amazing. Fabulous. Great. Just had a great cup of coffee. Here at the lake, I'm the barista. I'm not gonna lie. I just saw you deliver a latte to Natalie. Tell him about it, babe. That was a lot. Let's kind of gorge. Listen, I've always been, as you all know, my like French vanilla coffee mate or international delight creamer and a regular pot of coffee kind of girl. And then, but when I'd go out, I'd obviously get nice vanilla latte. And then I was like, you know what? My dad actually bought the Breville espresso machine for our wedding. That's it. You got us. Nick's been experimenting while we're up at the lake. And he has perfected a latte with honey and brown sugar. And now I'm like, oh my god, make this for me every single day of our lives.

2:04Yeah, three times case of brown sugar or a generous amount of honey. Not too much, though. You got to mix that in the hot coffee. So it melts. And then put the ice and milk. Perfection. I've never tasted it. Do you want to taste it on camera? No, it's not for me. Okay. This is also my love language. So, yeah, Jimmy's Jimmy's a big coffee guy. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What did you go to coffee order, Jimmy? I've been on a quartado kick for about a year now. I love a quartado. Yeah. Okay. Perfect ratio of espresso milk right there. Okay. Yeah. How much milk is that a little bit of milk? How too much? It's a one-to-one ratio of espresso milk. One-to-one. Equal parts. Just like a happy relationship, right? That's what you want. 50-50. 50-50. Okay. I actually like that. It's just like, I, you must drink a lot of caffeine then. Oh yeah. Minimum four a day. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Try to cut that back, but jittery to say the least jittery. It's what I'm always on. How's your stomach? That's a good question.

3:05Jittery. It abs and flows. I have IBS, so it doesn't help. Well, we have a jam packed episode for you as always. Nick and Tori from Merid at First Site join us later this episode. It's a real fun. They join us together. And it's a fun kind of round table conversation about their experience. They come in with some stories. And some tea. And some tea. And some tea, yeah. And it was great to chat with both Nick and Tori. And excited for you guys to listen to that conversation that we have with them. If you haven't listened to the Corbin interview, that they're going deeper with our time in Corbin. That dropped yesterday. So be sure to check that out. Really enjoyed our time with Corbin. Really, especially someone who like came across this so kind of rigid as they say, AI, it was great to know the person Corbin. And so if you haven't listened to that, be sure to check that out. We did have the Love Island reunion. Well, we obviously will dive into. But before we do, obviously the Lindsay Clancy Jury is they're still delivering. They're deadlocks. Maybe by the time this episode airs, that will be some kind of verdict.

4:05But that's got to be so frustrating to like, be like, we've been in here for 17 hours. We're deadlocked and the judge is like, listen, I'm going to have to ask you to go back in. Because they'll have to. Got to figure it out. It's like, how do you? Millions, well, objectively, they would have to try it again, which is going to cause, you know, cost millions of more dollars. I mean, I don't even think, I don't think society has the appetite to cover this again. If they come out deadlock again, and they're like, listen, like we cannot get you. Hung Jury. So she goes home. No, no, no, she doesn't go home. She probably doesn't go home. But she would be tried again. The state, the state, you would have to. You can't be tried for the same prep twice. Not well, if you're convicted or proven innocent. If you're proven innocent, you can't be tried twice. Yeah. But it was, it's like a mistrial. Again, like where do we draw the line? You know, like we have, we have stopped having the ability to say, postpartum is a real thing. We need more awareness from still being able to say,

5:08but you can't murder your kids. And being able to have both empathy and accountability at the same time. And too many people online have lost the plot. And it just like, it just doesn't feel organic. You know, it does, you know, five years ago, we could, this could have this horrible thing had happened. And we, I feel like society could have a little bit more of a level-headed conversation about this. And you have, it's just, I saw someone online being like, who thinks like the husband did it? And there's like, there's too many of us we're all saying the same thing. And it's like, instead of recognizing maybe you've all been influenced by the algorithm, you know, in a bubble, you're just thinking, we can't be wrong because too many of us are saying the same thing. And it's like, what? It's like, man, algorithms box you into that echo chamber. And then you just are literally ignorant to the other side. Yeah, because it's like, this is all I see. Every time I scroll, it's all I see. There can't be any other opinions out there. Everybody agrees with me. Yeah, right.

6:08I just, we gotta be careful to like, not, you know, again, you can recognize the problem, but it's some, you know, like, I don't know, it's just like, it's dangerous. You know, it will be fascinating to see what happens with this case. And I'm just more curious about like, what's the fallout? Like, I just, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, like, so just essentially like, waps if they can't reach a verdict on this trial. A mistrial would be declared. And the case essentially goes back to the same status as before this trial with the 36 year old Clancy being charged with murder held at a psychiatric hospital awaiting a resolution of the criminal case. She would likely go back on trial, but prosecutors have some options. They would decide whether to try again with a new jury. If they do, the jury selection process will begin again. And a new trial will be scheduled. Prosecutors could also offer a plea deal to Clancy. I feel like the, I feel like a new jury is going to be absolutely impossible. I mean, with now this being as how do you find how do you find someone who's never heard about it?

7:10And if they haven't heard of it, then I also don't want them on the jury because where have you been? I'm sure to be a homie's boot check. Like, for my homies, we talking about it. I'm like, yeah, this what is the discourse with the boy, the young men? Not out the boys, but they have their concerns. They need more context. Okay. Any more context. The third potential outcome of the case is that it's, this is a lot less likely, but the district's attorney office could decide not to retry the case. Lindsay Clancy is currently being held at a state run psychiatric facility throughout her retrial detention. Yeah, so the facility has become her long-term residence since the events. So she would probably just stay there is my assumption of it. If something happened where I lost my mind and did this terrible act, I don't want the world's grace or sympathy. Everything can't be explained through the lens of empathy and so on. And it being someone else's fault. I'm trying to be sensitive to that, like, mental health, like illness,

8:13that I never would know what that's like, but I agree. You do got to draw the line somewhere and I feel like murdering your children is the line. Yeah. And there are millions of other women who suffer from this horrible thing who don't do that. The way some people are trying to make her the symbol or the face of postpartum depression, I think, is not helpful for the cause. No, Amanda Hirsch, skinny but not fat, had a great post to take on this. I won't read the full thing, but if you're interested, you can. But she basically just said, I feel like we're losing the plot a little bit. Three babies were killed. They had their entire lives ahead of them. Yes, their mother was very sick. That's devastating, but it wasn't their fault. They were strangled to death methodically and left to die in the basement. My friend said to me, isn't everyone who killed someone mentally ill to some extent? Correct. Obviously, it's more complicated than that, especially legally, but it really made me think about where we draw that line. And it's, she says, but the fan base that go fund me the way people are rallying behind her, almost like she's a celebrity, genuinely scares me a little bit about where we are as a society.

9:16I just don't want our compassion to somehow turn into excusing or minimizing what happened to her children. There you go. Right. Perfectly said, Amanda. That is very well said. This just made me think, did you guys see that the baby mama drama with Clayton, the girl who was guilty? Oh, she was guilty as a lady. Yeah. Yes. So my ex, the guy that was the bachelor Clayton record, was accused of getting a real pregnant and then all of this crazy stuff. It's been three years of trials and she did this to other men. And finally, after three years, but it's a plea deal. So she didn't actually play the guilty to everything. There were several charges like 14 felonies. Right. So she she played guilty to three or four. Like the less of two evils in her. Yes. You know, it's a fatal. So they tuned fucked up about that whole thing. What? Tell me the way the mainstream press ignored that. Exactly. Crazy. They were so uninterested in Clayton's innocence. And it like we had them on. And there were other shows that that followed the case.

10:20But the mainstream didn't touch it. Even though it was like, it was crazy. It just again, it also it felt inorganic. It is literally true crime. A bachelor was being gone girl. I mean, that was a movie version. But like she did the same thing where she was she had a plan. She did this with multiple people. There were other boyfriends who had similar stories to him. There were so many similarities between that crazy movie in this real life situation. She wore a fake belly to court. I just die of the vocal. Where do you draw the line again? Like, it's crazy. Injected hormones into herself to be able to pee on a pregnancy test for it to pop positive. Like the extent that she went is so bizarre. It is like chilling. Well, we also have the dancing with the stars official lineup that came out. And everyone who was rumored is in fact confirmed. Okay. Oh, and no. Breaking news here. It's an interesting cast. You have some star-studded big names

11:21when it comes to the women cast. And then you have more like up-and-coming niche men. I mean, random. Random. Not a random. I mean, they all have their respective audiences and they all make sense in their own right. It's just more like, in general, is a collection of like some more mainstream names. Like someone who's like an a-lister. Like Julia Styles is a huge name. Julia Styles. The huge name. Like what an incredible get for dancing with the stars. Guys. I have a confession. What? I hope my mom's not listening, but the only name I recognize is Guillermo. Wait, really? Yeah. Good for you. That's the only name. Honestly. Good for you. Yeah. And I love Guillermo, but that's all I get. Wait, more Higgins. Guillermo. I've heard Tyler Cameron. And I, he's. You're gonna love him. He's gonna love him. He's great. Yeah. I mean, he's maybe the most mainstream name on the men's list. Yeah, because I'm familiar with that name. And I love dance with the stars because of a mom's shumpert. Chicago basketball player. Well, running through the list, we've got Julia Styles,

12:21Jenna Dewan, Tatiana Ali, Taylor Hanson, Ezra French. Oh, okay. Hanson, I'm wrong. He's the biggest former Taylor Hanson brothers. Who's that? Oh, they're like a pop like the band. They were massive. He's the big. That's a, that's big. Sorry, guys. I'm still. I didn't know this was. This is maybe not your generation, but like they have the Hanson brothers. Bob. Bob. Bob. Bob. Bob. I don't know about anyone. Can you recognize that? Yeah. That's it. Yeah, I know Bob. Mom, if you want to. Okay. Okay. All right. That's a big name. Continuing, we've got Amber Glenn Connor Wood, a serengerator, Tyler Cameron, Giata Dilarantes, Harry Shum Jr. Connor Levitt, Guillermo Rodriguez, Mora Higgins, Cermiller and Jackson Olsen. So. This will be a big test for the Levitt name. It like, you know, they also brought in some new pros for this. I mean, we brought back Sharna Burgers. Yeah, Sharna's back dancing with Tyler.

13:24Do we have they announced the couples yet? They have, yeah. Yes, they do. There's a couple notable ones. Serengerator is partnering with Haley Bills. Not only is it a female duo, but I do think they both, I mean, this is me just, you know, putting the piece of the puzzle together, but I think they both have religious backgrounds. Because serengerators like small town Louisiana, Christian, and now she is openly bisexual. And then Haley Bills is from Salt Lake City. I think from the Mormon community, she's friends with all the same Salt Lake City dancers. Haley is Jenna Johnson's niece. Stunner. I mean, I'm just gonna put it on there. That's gonna be my, I'm gonna say I am gonna be locked in for that, same. That pairing. Beautiful. We also have Connor Levit with the new next pro winner, Adele Zijkman. So congrats to Adele. If you guys didn't watch that finale, oh my gosh, there was no other option to me. I mean, she, her dance moves her choreography. I was like, I've never wanted to be a dancer more.

14:25It was literally, I mean, to me, I was like, that's a pro. It was so good. She stood out amongst the very talented girls. Yeah. I also loved Selena's moments were really good too. Selena was great like, wow, moment choreography. Yeah, I thought AJ should've won. Oh really? Yeah. You thought AJ said. I like AJ. Really? Yeah, I thought AJ, cold. Did you like his online drama too? No, I didn't know about his tee. I thought as a dancer like technically, I thought he, and as like a coach, I thought he was cold. Okay. You were judging from a technical standpoint? Hey, one thing about me is I grew up a dancer. I know my, my mom was, my dad's side is best but my mama was a pom-pom girl. Oh, you know that dolphin move when he's easy. I was brought up in this world. Yeah, point it so, come on now. I do find it interesting that Jenna Dewan is partnered with Vowl. Obviously she is a very experienced dancer and he is like considered one of the best pros. And so I do, like you'd think maybe she'd be with one of the newer ones to kind of even out the playing field. It's actually a disadvantage for her.

15:25She won't be able to pull the, you know, the improvement. She'll just, she's going to be, you know, like people want to see. I think it's going to be, I mean like Whitney Levitt, like she was so good every time they went out that it was just so fun to watch because you were like, this is just such a performance. Yeah, but I mean despite like I think a lot of people when fans of Whitney like aware of her talent, she, you know, she became a star as a mom on reality TV. And for a lot of people who weren't familiar with her, seeing her just absolutely crushed, it was like, oh, damn, and she can also do this with Jenna Dewan. Most people were introduced to her as a dancer, as a performer. And so the, I can't believe she, she's also amazing at that is, I think, it'll be interesting how, you know, like that's a big part of the dancing with the stars vote in the way like fans connect with the dancers. They didn't bring back. Sasa? Yeah, no, Sasha, yeah. Oh, he comes and goes. Yeah, he comes and goes. I don't think he's been on the past couple.

16:27He was partnered with Jen Trent. Yeah, when Jen was on, she was, was he not on last season? I think he might have skipped a last season. Maybe it's a height thing. I mean, he often is paired with someone who's shorter. My money's on Guillermo, okay. Okay, that's you. Okay, who do I want to? I mean, I have to go, I have to go Tyler. Yeah, Tyler. I was like, Tyler. I think Tyler Cameron, he's one. He's a charmer. He's a charmer. I thought he's a good, good lad. Yeah, he's gonna have people's hearts, but he's gonna be good too. And having Sharna back, I think she had like her, this being her first season back in a while, like that's gonna pull out a lot of people. I think, yeah, I think that's good. I'm excited to see that do well. Underdog who's not really an underdog, I think Connor Wood is gonna be really good. I think his fan base is strong. Are he the cutie? Are his charmer. Him and Riley both single, are we gonna get our showman's from them? Or I hope so. I think people are gonna eat them up together,

17:28whether they're single or not. That's one thing about, like, I don't know if I could ever date a dancer because they get intimate on stage. Like that is another level, like, intimacy. I don't know if I'm secure enough with, like just watch my partner do that. Yeah. The way they lock eyes in that moment. And they touch the back of the head. Glob also isn't there. Well, when you have too many people being like, do you think Sarah Jane, Nader, they were like, we're not having like a Nader sister and Glob on the same season? I don't think it's this more practical. I think you had a lot of the women who were like his reputation right now is not great. And they were just like, I don't wanna dance with them. And why would it's like, it's not a good storyline to put Sierra or Mora in that situation. And then like Julia Stiles, like, you know, they'll bring them back. Well, if Tyler doesn't win dancing with the stars, he can always go and work at Hooters because they are now hiring men

18:29to set up their own. Yeah. inclusivity. Can we take a class trip? We can take a class trip for research. Now it's his TGR friend. For research. Now it's his chiles. What's the, like, what's the, I do feel like they need to change the name to like Hooters and hangers, you know? Are the men who need to be centralized? We're gonna be fit in the chip and nails outfits. I mean, that's the same. Serving you how, beautiful. So if the shorts are the same length, then Jimmy can work there. If anyone sees Jimmy's recent social media activity, he's got this smallest. Those are some short shorts. Hey, one thing about me is I'm going to commit to the bit. Where did you find those? In the wardrobe that was not, you know, for me it was for the girls, but I was like, you know what, let's do it. The legs were popping. Okay, athleticism. Oh, no. We don't normally see the legs out like that. It is called me a quadri-source Rex. Quadri-source Rex is right. What's the point? When was the last time you went to Hooters? It's been a long time. I've never really heard of it. The point wouldn't be for you. The terrible food. I go for the food, not for the experience, but thank you, Susie.

19:29The point is not for you. It is for us. And we were tired of going with our men and our men being like, and we wanted to talk about the food. You've been to Hooters. I've actually never stepped on the Hooters. The fried pickles are great. You liked their food. The fried pickles. Oh my God, they're so good. I used to work by one when I worked in pharmaceutical marketing and it was down the chief of my office and I would go by myself. What would you order? Hey ladies, it's me again. I would get fried pickles. Once a week, it would be like my little treat on Friday. Thank you. Do you remember your first Hooters trip? I definitely remember mine. Whenever it was, I remember being thoroughly unimpressed. Oh, yeah. What? How old were you? Yikes. High school. High school. Okay, I was like seventh, eighth grade. I remember it's perfect age. Like, yeah, your height was probably perfect at that point. Yeah, I just remember being like overstimulated. Just like, who did you go with, Jimmy? You're very less about buffalo wings. My basketball coach took our entire team. Maybe the Hooters in Middle Wisconsin wasn't serving.

20:32I think I would like that better, you know what I'm saying? What's a Hooters in Memphis? I like them homegrown. Homegrown. So you like, you like Asped Honey? Natural male. What's her, what's her name? What's her name? Double lives. 100%. That's my type. Oh my gosh. Well, we have. The love I'm reunion is dropped. It's in the can. It's what did we learn? Well, first and foremost, it sounds like the one who had maybe the worst experience was Cata. She's definitely, she's allegedly lost over 100,000 followers. It's crazy. People think she's like up on her high horse that she was mean. She was like slut shaming. She misspoke. I know, I didn't like, I didn't like it. She didn't just miss me. There was like the comment I've heard. Her demeanor, the energy she like came in with. Like she was like defensive about things that didn't necessarily even warrant. How do you guys feel about that? How do you guys feel about the fans? Quite literally using their follow is like a currency

21:35or like weaponizing their follow in the way of like, you know, it's a day to day like, do I fuck with you or, or find out? Do I not? And like unfollowing? If you had no clue who like any of those people were and you just like watched that reunion, not having any context, you could tell who had the most followers just based on like, how almost entitled like the way people acted. Yeah. I would agree with that. And I do think that you made a good point, Nick. I do think followers are currency. And in a way, like just in society as well, we vote with our dollar. So where you're putting your money and where you're putting your follow, it is letting people know like where your values are. And like I know me personally as a consumer. If somebody gives a bad take, I'm not gonna unfollow them. If they give a take, I don't, I don't agree with them. I'm not gonna unfollow them. If they say something that I feel like genuinely disrupts my morals or like my nervous system where I'm like, I cannot be a part of supporting this person and allowing them to like make money, I'm gonna unfollow them. And so I think when people,

22:36I think people responding with unfollow kind of speaks to like the pain people feel. Like I don't know watching that. I was like, wow, this feels like a mean girl kind of. And I didn't like it. It made me feel like, I don't know. I wouldn't want to be in a room where I'm on the receiving end of that because I didn't feel fair. Especially coming from Cato. Her relationship with Zach isn't perfect, you know? Like and also like it's a weird blurred line of what their relationship is because they're not boyfriend and girlfriend but they're exclusive. So I heard it like be weighing in on Jaden and Caleb's situation. It was just like, do you, why are you involved in yourself right now? Mm-hmm. I also saw a lot of discourse about Melanie and Kinsey, how it was kind of like they were saying that Melanie was being accusing the mean girl, you know? She was like, add her neck and then they're crying saying, I love you. That was like some girl shit. That's kind of what they were saying. It was like you were mean to her until she started crying and then it was like, oh, let me say I don't give you a hug and let's go out to dinner. Like this feels like a lot of shit.

23:37I didn't love that either. Yeah, it just seems like ever since season six, the evolution of love Island in the way. I have a ton of empathy for what these Islanders have to experience. There's nothing out there that replicates how popular it is right now, you know, coming out of the show in this instant reaction and dealing with all that. Like no doubt is a challenge. I think that most of them are making huge mistakes of how they're moving post filming. Because like outside of maybe Bryson Trinity are gonna have like the Alandria arc where they're just gonna be, they're gonna have some staying power and they're gonna have probably limitless opportunities. And a lot of them are gonna have a lot of opportunities but they're being, and I get it, they're probably scared to say anything and don't know how to move. When the reason why you are famous or have a following is because of your personality and then you know, and then you are very restricted of what you show people and you allow people to create narratives. They're not only to get out there

24:38and kind of let the audience learn about who they really are outside of Alav Island and therefore will be quickly forgotten. I ask you about the Caleb situation then because the audience is kind of learning about who Caleb, quote unquote really is. Yeah, we just learned a little bit. And he's following like the, who's following like the Rob Roch footsteps where like he started with the same, where he has the same reps and do you think, you know, like he's trying to follow on those footsteps but his appeal wasn't necessarily that. His appeal was like the nice guy. Yeah, like sweet boy that like was wronged. I think you can be both. I think that's what, what I'm fascinated what always interests me and why we do this show is to learn how like on reality TV people get siloed into an oversimplified persona. Caleb was the sweet boy. And the truth is, it's like, you know, you can be, you can be a 21 year old heartthrob who's overall a gentleman and generally has a sweet demeanor and you can still like want to like hook up, you know, and fuck around and maybe still lack

25:39some communication skills because you're 21 where you might need some notes and how you handle a situation and maybe it, you know, maybe it results in some hurt feelings. It doesn't necessarily make you a horrible guy. You know what I'm saying? I think you can be both, right? And I think we learned that Caleb is in fact 21. It is. Yeah. And he has to deal with learning how to beat go about being a single dude like with millions of followers now. It's going to be tough for him. It's going to be awesome and tough at the same time. The in crowd of La Violin, the OGs, the finalists, like they can still critique Caleb and not like, you know, want to rally behind him because he's their boy and he's part of the, you know, because that's, you know, to your point, it always kind of gives like people know, they feel like the authority they have or the clout they have relative to their peers and they feel like speaking up and defending each other in a way that doesn't often make sense. That power dynamic is crazy. It was wild to watch soul, like spin her exaggerations

26:42or quote unquote lies that, you know, just the way that she tried to make it. And before us to walk them back. It was just when they're like, you said that Bryce pulled Kada three or four times and she's like, did you not pull her twice? And they're all like, no, it was one time. She's like, okay, but you stood on the red dot and tried to leave the relationship. It's like, whoa, that like that happened before you were even there, like what is going on? I think soul's never been rejected in her life. And she shut up to love, I'll let it in. She had obviously had an early exit. And I think she's, as she can't make heads of tails of it. Like one plus one is not equaling two in soul's mind. That's what it seems like the only reason because she seems like a fairly level headed person but why is she to this point? Just so, I've never seen someone have such a short period of time makes such a meal. Yeah. Like trying to like explain why they were really, it's like you had, you had kind of everyone on your side until you kept leaning in. Sympathy is a dangerous drug.

27:43It's what it seemed like to me because I agree, I remember you being on the show and you saying, soul had the most aura of anybody in the villa. And I left the show feeling like, oh, I'm rooting for her. I want to see her do big things. And then the way she came out online, I was like, wow, like you are, this is so different. But I think it's getting a taste of that sympathy that everyone felt where it's like, we want more of you. Like we want to see you and people hyping you up and telling you you've been done dirty. And then it's like, it gets, you know, I don't know, spirals, yeah. Let that feed into her complex or her reality or her experience as everybody fucking says. Everybody is throwing up, that's my experience. That's my perspective, that was my lived experience. What is going on? Like what's the actual truth? Like you don't know what they're, I mean, we all obviously saw it play out. So we have some, to some of the truth is, even though it's overly producing edited, but like, can we shut out Trinity Anaya, T.T. I'm going to say it. I didn't think I was going to be like the biggest T.T. fan

28:44after Fire Pit Night. Like I just, I was like, I don't know. I feel like she came in hot with the girls. And the way she moved from that day forward, literally the next episode of her being so honest and so like, put in her guard and her ego down and just like talking to the girls. And the way she moved in the reunion, all three of those women showed so much grace. I don't think they're getting talked about enough because it like wasn't that dramatic because they all seem like pretty healthy and healed. But the three of them, I was like, okay, I think they need their flowers. And I think people are losing the plot a little bit with social media because everyone brings up my experience and they were also all bringing up likes. Like you like this comment, you like this comment. I'm like, I was the internet. It has me to hear, because I'm active on the internet. I'm like, yo, if anybody were to do a scam report on me, I'm not just like it shit, I'm commented, like I'm super active. And I didn't realize people read into that so much. How do you also find all of the comments that everyone has liked? I mean, truly, like Bailey said, get off the internet. How are you that aware? There's such an easy rebuttal to that.

29:46Why are you liking this? Why are you liking that? These are clearly the people that are my fans and are supporting me and I want them to feel like I see you and I appreciate you. Boom, here's your like, keep having my back on the internet. But like nobody's, I, yeah. And I felt like the comment that Shay liked to comment about Cato, fumbling him. And I felt like the way she just kind of like shut him down where it was like, you're liking these comments. And I'm like, but that really doesn't even have anything to do with you. It's more so him being like, yeah, I feel fumbled. I'm a catch. You know, like I would on this show. People had to feel that way. And he sacrificed the same way that those other Islanders sacrificed. And half, no, not even half. A handful of them come out with millions of followers, millions of dollars. And then the other ones get sat on a couch off to the side. So I'm like, let him have his moment. Let him like the comment. It's okay. And that's why I say you could tell like who's clouded and who's not just by the demeanor and the way they feel like they have this like superior like high ground to like just like talk down to other people. And it's like, yo, like it's giving you all a chance. Like to end it, I think many of these cast members

30:50are on a path of like the reality TV star tragedy, which is to be too famous to get a real job but not famous enough to actually make real money. And there are so many people out there with millions of followers who aren't able to actually monetize it in a meaningful sustainable way. Like think about this cast, how large is cast as how many followers are going around. And like we've, it was a month ago and it feels like forever ago. And final question, I feel like the timing of the ringings off because like either, either Heather Ruegan and right away, if you're gonna talk about everything that happened on the show, which is it seemed like what the ringing was about, which is like, you know, breaking down the show, like we waited a whole month for that. You know, there wasn't a lot of like, what's happened in between and I don't know. It did take place in a little bit. Yeah, what is the timeframe? Is it two months post show that we're at right now? Or was it one month? It's one month. But it honestly feels like fucking year. It feels like forever ago. That's crazy. I know you want to move off this, Nick, but I kind of have a question about like the core four stuff and how like Melanie was getting into with Kenzie. My question is when and like, how did they get established as the core four if Kenzie wasn't OG?

31:52And I feel like if Kenzie's not a core four member, doesn't shouldn't that like signal to her that like, you know, Melanie isn't your best friend. Why would you think that? Like clearly not a part of this little clip. Core four comes from the internet. It's the internet giving them the name. The question is is when they come out of the villa, how much do they embrace the these titles? They embrace that shit. Well, yeah, right? So, you know, it really kind of gives Iki. The other way. Why are you all, it felt like we're intentionally an alienating or not intentionally. We want it to be clear like, yeah, we are the core four. You over there, like we're not the fat five. We could be, but. The tricky part is that like, I think the challenge is is because you know, when you see for example, Kate, I lose 100,000 followers. I, you know, I empathize like you see reality people literally be afraid to just be normal in chill or be friends with someone in their space because of what their audience says about them. It wouldn't shock me if the core four doesn't feel like it's safe to be friends with some of their cast members. Because of the, because of what the internet is telling. That is like a trapped place to be.

32:53I guess sports. No, it's, yeah. I can't be friends with you because the internet says I can't. And it causes them to make a million mistakes in bad decisions. Wow. This really is a social experiment. It is a social experiment. All right, well up next is time to get to our guest, Nick and Tory, from Meridat first site. It's a great conversation. You get a lot of answers of all your burning questions. We're gonna come to Nick and Tory, who are survived. Some very interesting relationships and they're up next to talk all about it. Don't forget, VALFiles Plus now offers ad free episodes for all VALFiles episodes, including Ask, Nick, Reality Recap and Going Deeper Plus. If you love Ask, Nick, you will absolutely love our Ask, Nick updates, where you get updates of your favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows and our pop culture roundups. Where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode. Plus deep dives on our going deeper guests and so much more. All you have to do is go to VALFiles Plus

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36:59Again, go to helixceap.com slash V-I-A-L-L-L for their 2026 Labor Day sale of up to 30% off. That's helixceap.com slash V-I-A-L-L for up to 30% off. Make sure to use our show name after checkout. So they know we sent you that's helixceap.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Nick, Tori, welcome to the show. What up? Thank you. So excited to have you guys. This was a rager of a season. How long has it been since you guys ended production of the show? Like mid-October, I think is round on wrap. Okay, so we're coming up on you. Yeah, so the show all essentially finished filming like a year ago. So it's been some time to reflect whatever. But then the reunion only filmed like a month ago. So that's still kind of fresh. Okay. It felt fresh. Yeah. Well, I mean, are you saying it kind of opened some rooms, so to speak? Well, it's wild because we obviously we have to watch

37:59the whole season before the reunion so we know what to talk about. So we are like in a hotel room with iPads with the show, binge watching all of it in a day. And then the whole show is then fresh in your head. And then you go right into this reunion. So all of your feelings, everything are like right on the top of your head. You haven't had time to talk to any friends or family about it. So you're just going to this reunion raw. That's honestly genius. Yeah, yeah. So that's diabolical too. That's true. Yeah, I mean, as far as production goes, that's a good way to do it. Yeah. But yeah, I think it was just for me, I was thinking and hoping maybe that like because it had been a year, maybe Courtney would apologize during the reunion a little bit. And then when she kind of doubled down on the edit, I was kind of like, oh, dude. It sounds like you weren't expecting apology from Courtney. And I guess what was the apology you were hoping to get from her going into the reunion? You know, I thought that maybe even the experts might encourage it to that didn't really happen either. But like, I was fully thinking she was going to be like,

39:01hey, watching it back, I realized a lot of what I was doing was actually like really coming off root and disrespectful. And like, I've learned from that. And now I've learned XYZ that I can do differently. And I do see that you were trying and like, whatever, just like a normal apology. But instead she was just like, I'm an alpha. And you're awesome. Or whatever. And it's just like, no accountability for just kind of like my experience that I had. So that was a little disappointed. Was it trippy being in a relationship with her in the sense that it did seem like as a viewer that like, yeah, we all talk about projecting. But it was just like, anytime she'd have a problem and she kind of like, you do this like, we're obviously just being blamed for something. You feel almost like, whoa, where's this coming? Like, yeah. Did she touch on anything? Or did maybe she after reflecting, did you think,

40:01okay, well, maybe that's fair. Are you all right, Times? Where's it like just accusations that have left field? So I think like the accusation of me, not like fully opening up with her is valid. Like, but it wasn't for lack of trying. So like, yes, the fact that like she didn't really get to know much about me is true. But it wasn't for me like not trying to do so. And like it took me a while. Because like when you're in it also, it's kind of hard to realize some things that are happening. So it took me a while to kind of realize how much projection was happening and like kind of like gaslighting even was happening throughout the show. And then watching it back, obviously you have context of like the interviews that are happening and like what chat she's having with the other girls. And so it's like she'd be like talking about other girls like, if I have to spend one more second with Nick, I'm gonna like leave or whatever. And then it's like, then to my face, she's like, Nick, of course I want to spend time with you. Or like we'll be on the fair, be couched duckly. She's like, Nick, obviously I like you and I want to spend time with you. And then she's like, nope, like I want to like not hear.

41:04I'm like, all right. Amazing Courtney impression. So yeah, that was confusing. But yeah, it was a lot of contradictions I think between what she would say and what she would do. And I think the earliest example of projection was like literally right after we got married. I don't know if you all remember, but she's doing an interview with a producer in the proofs. She says something about like, I just don't want Nick to get bored of me. And then the producer's like Courtney, it's been three hours. You're worried about him being bored already. And she's like, yeah, like they air that. And then the next day, it's an interview of her saying, Nick is so boring. So it went from her fear of her being boring to project that onto me and like, Nick is a boring person. And I think that was like kind of the very first example of that happening. I would have been great if that producer would have been like, Courtney, don't worry. You're an alpha. How can you be more important? Tor, you also had a very, well, incredible run. First of all, you were really a joy to watch.

42:04And thank you for your sacrifice. Because obviously it seemed like some of our entertainment with your pain. But what was just your general take away with Felipe? Because like on one end as a viewer, he seemed like a nice enough guy. I think he had a very charming opening. He has that kind of like, I used to be a nerd, but now I'm cool and kind of sexy. Like he root for that guy. And then throughout the season, just drop some like, what the fuck did you do that? Kind of moments. And yeah, what was it like for you in real time, knowing that like, hey, I agreed to marry this stranger, from what you were your first reaction of like meeting Felipe to like how that evolved throughout the season. I'm really curious. Yeah, well, I was able to see the opening that you guys saw. That would have been helpful. No, but I think going into the wedding, I, when I first saw Felipe, I didn't really watch the show previous to this,

43:05because I didn't want it to dictate how I showed up. So I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was going to get pranked. I saw like there was fake teeth on an episode from a million years ago. So I just didn't know what was going to happen. And so I always kind of think I'm going to be swindled. And so I was like, this is for sure a swindle situation. And so I was thrilled when I saw him. And there was no like, fake teeth. There was no prank, whatever. And so I was just like, I was really thrilled about that. And then I think as like the season went on, it definitely took a turn. I would say the least. But I really enjoyed his family. And I was just, I think I was so, in my mindset, was basically like, I'm getting, going to get pranked. And then also Tixedo blindness is very real. But I love that so funny. It's for sure real. But yeah, so I think, and I really love this family. Like we really started getting along like right off the bat.

44:06So again, though, I wish I would have seen the opening that you guys saw, that everyone saw, because I think when it went out, it's the first time I saw that. And it made more sense. What do you mean by that? Because I think when a lot of this stuff, it did happen earlier on. But like when you started pulling these like blind sighting things, which were like mind you, like when we were even filming at the apartment or dates or whatever, like it was never any of that, it was like, he admitted that he cheated. And then it was like all of a sudden at these, like usually group dinners, group things, he would just like drop these bombs left and right. And so then he'd say like afterward, he kind of do what he did with the cheating thing where he said to the guys, like, oh, I cheated, but I forgot. Ha ha. But then to me, he was like, I was so ashamed. And like, so it was just like you're getting a different story. And like, you know, I didn't pick him. He didn't pick me. I don't know him that well. So like, you know, I want to hear him out. But then as time went on, as we see, it just kind of really went downhill.

45:08You know, it's interesting, you know, when you think about this show in its premise. And I think if we're all being honest, like, I mean, listen, what that, hearing you that description is fascinating because the truth is it probably wasn't even a different story. It was like him performing differently for his audience, right? He's with the boys, he downplays it, you know, for whatever reason. With you, he wants to sound empathetic sincere. And in this situation where you're literally meeting a stranger and I imagine all of you, you hope at least the other person, and I think, you know, many often we're not holding ourselves accountable or at least some of them. But to be so easily a different person in different situations must be kind of an uncomfortable feeling to watch a back knowing that you were like, hoping that whoever you met, I mean, like, you know, say what you want about Courtney. She has a hard time not being herself. And I like, you know, it's like, okay, at least you can trust that. But with Felipe, this kind of a chameleon kind of vibe is, but yeah, I'm sure it's so common.

46:11And in a way that I don't think we realize in dating. Yeah. And I think that's a really good point too. Because like regarding Courtney, I will say, and I mean, Nick and I have talked about this and I talked with Courtney on this too. But, you know, my experience with her was very different than what Nick's experience, what we saw. And so when we're watching that back, I was like, it was completely so different. And so then when you put that to like Felipe, I agree though, I think it wasn't like, he wasn't like completely switching up, but it was definitely the story was told very differently. You know, when he was talking these things, and it was usually from like kind of a victim place. And so I wanted to kind of hear him out, you know, he'd stressful to go through this in general. So like, it's like, okay, like, you know, sort of you should out, but okay. And, but I think it was very much your audience type of saying at least with Felipe. Yeah. Is there anything that he admitted to or anything off putting or shocking? He said that didn't make the final edit

47:12that you that stuck with you? Yeah, where do I start? Yeah, please. Yeah, a favorite one. She really wanted to go on. This was like towards the end and at that point, it's just like Jesus take the wheels like, oh my God. So he was like, we were out on a patio sitting out there and then he was like, you know, I, and I'm not really, I watched some rallies, but not a lot. And so I didn't know even what the show was promised was, but he was like, I'd love to go on too hot to handle. And I was like, no. And then he just signed up for that. And I just was like, wow. Okay, okay. And that was like, peak timing where I just was like, literally like, I didn't know what was up and what was down. And I'm just trying to like, Jesus take the wheel. I'm just trying to get through this right now. I'm sorry for that happening, but that is an awesome story. Too hot. Yeah. Insane from Meredith first sight to handle. Like to handle gives you a different name

48:13during the cast process because it's like a surprise that you're on to at the handle. So maybe Felipe thought Meredith first sight, season 20 was actually too out the handle. He's gonna still up. Oh my God. Oh, so hilarious. Oh my God. You got to find a lower workaround. Torey, are you always this like cool, common collected while dealing with just an absurd man? Like watching the show back, I was so impressed with how honestly chill you were. But it wasn't like, oh, I'm the cool girl that's cool with everything. You were like, I'm composed, I'm chilling and I'm very confident. And he's making a fool of himself. Like it's almost like you didn't have to call out or like poke at him. You can't, it seemed like you knew. Like, oh, this is gonna air and he's gonna look. Like a train wreck. Yes, exactly. Like are you always that composed? Or was this you just like trying to, I don't know, show up for this, for the show and be like, okay, I'm gonna let him dig his own grave? Yeah, well, I think I have some practice with fuck boys in general, but I also think that like I grew up kind of

49:15in a tumultuous environment. And so like with like verbally and things like that and you kind of learn to like not give things control. And then when you bring in like, you know, these like kind of just like silly boys, like it's just like the days would love nothing more than you to just like boost their ego by you getting upset. And so I think that combination, I didn't realize honestly, I didn't even think that that was a thing until like it aired and like that, like you know, people are saying that now or like that's a thing, but like I did not think of that at all. And like, yeah, so I think it was the combination of that. Two moments that specifically come into my head going off of that Susie is the car ride where your car breaks down. And he is just sitting there like finger up his butt cannot help you with literally anything. And it seemed like you were like, you know what? I can handle this like I can I know how to call A, B, and C. I'll be fine. This will be okay. But the fact that he didn't even offer like any sort

50:16of help, any direction, nothing. Yeah. Memorial support. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Nick had on the back. Nick, Nick and Jimmy, you were, I mean, I don't hold the you neck. I'm turning 33 and like a week. Okay. Well, happy birthday. You look great. But yeah, so you're younger than me. Jimmy, you're even younger. There's a lot of conversations online about like just masculinity, what it means, what, what, you know, the young modern look like to modern man looks like today. Like maybe I'm just the old guy, but like, yeah, like I think that's insane that like a man wouldn't want to be like, all right, I mean, he's like pretend I know what I'm doing here or help solve problem solve. But be the guy who just like sits in his car on his phone. Or is that like, is that the new young man of today? Nah, nah, you still supposed to help out like me. Like I'm not going to change the tire. We call it triple A, but I'm going to help you call triple A. Do you do not know how to change a tire? Fuck no. That was one of my fears on perfect match. One of the challenges is to like change a tire. My tire went flat.

51:17I couldn't find it because the tire has a lock one. I couldn't find it. So I did have to call triple A. But you should know how to do it. You should know that Nick, do you, you went to MIT, Nick, you must know. Well, dude, I do software at MIT. So let's relax on that. Hardware is a totally different thing, but I can't get it right. No, but I you're still a genius. Well, I mean, I've got denying that. But like my, I like to help my dad like fix it, like swap out of tire when I was like 13 or something. And I haven't done you don't know how to change a tire. Yeah, there's no way I could say. I'm going to say it. Do it. Do it. Do you do it? Do you know? We don't even know the basic steps. I've never seen him change a tire before. So as much as he's talking this shit, I've never seen it. I should play a game called again. I did call triple A last time. I'm not a mechanic. I'm like, but you should know the stat. Like there's a there's a filter. There's a filter. There's a filter. What's about filter? I'm a problem solver. I'll get it figured out. Like whether it's me like using the car jack.

52:20Like TVD. Yeah, more of the story. You're still supposed to be a good guy and like help fix the situation. Whatever the situation. Yeah, at the end of the day, it is more than what Felipe was going to do. Right. I mean, he was over there. Just I wonder when shocked if he asked me if I could make him a snack at that point. I was just like, just goes on. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You got to swipe it on Tinder. Literally. Can I have some chalk? No. The other moment was when it was the same episode. I believe that night when he was performing being called like the fuck boy and whatever. And he loved it so much. And you went up to the room at the retreat and y'all kind of broke up in this, like the temper tantrum that this man threw it. The way that I would have been like, get up and you just sat there so calm and collected. And it was it was honestly like Susie said. I mean, it's just it's brilliant to watch. I love watching it. Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was. There's nothing more powerful than calmness and stileness and situation. Yeah.

53:21I feel like I really do feel like especially when we were at that portion, I think maybe like a week or two before that was when I was just like, I cannot even like, you kind of can't even really like share your emotions or share anything because you're just like, I don't know what you're going to say or do. But with that, I was just trying to convey like, you know, I didn't care about the game and I was honestly like having fun. It was fine with the game, but then he was like enjoying it so much. And then you're trying to explain something and it's like, this is not even worth my time and I just was over it. But yeah, yeah. And then I lost my car and it's like, Penelope Cruz, like I was so sad about that and it was like my like old car, but it was like a stick shift and I was so really sad about Penel. I'm really sad to know. And do you remember the moment where you're like, I can't marry this man? Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, it kind of went back to like some stuff just got really weird. Like I did feel like I was getting love bombed and like the last two guys, they dated

54:22love bombed and so I just was like, I told him that and he was like, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, got it. He like, for instance, love bombing. I'm like, I love you. Happy top. Good top. Yeah, for sure. Shout out to all of you. I love you. Priscilla. Me and my family are going to Priscilla. I like it. Great. So I think though when we were intimate, after word, we were chatting and he said something and that's the reason why I went on the couch was that he was really excited to tell the guys. Oh, man. I was really, really excited. Like just so excited. And I was like, what the hell am I doing? What am I doing with this experiment? Like I was like questioning everything, pretty like waited till he passed out and I just like basically like rolled out of there as fast as I could. I was wondering why you went on the couch. That yeah, that make me leave as well. So that's why you went on the couch. Did you ask him or did you bring that up to him or you like, wait, what do you mean? Like, did you call it out? Yeah, I talked to him in the moment and I was like, well, listen, like you're going

55:26to tell Devon or Nick or someone and then there's someone's going to do a minute of you and then it's going to kind of like create by and throughout like that. And I don't want to do that. So that's why at the first dinner, I just said it because I was like, I'm just going to say it because like you're going to go, yeah, and it's going to be like Lord knows how that's going to go. I've never done a show before or like this experiment thing. Like I don't know how that's going to go. So, but that was kind of I think me going to the couch though. I do feel like that struck a chord with him ego wise because that's when a lot of this stuff started occurring. And I think that she thought it was for different reasons. I think that like, I don't know how he didn't put two and two together. Like that was like the weirdest thing I've ever like he was like giddy. It was just weird. And so I think that like that's kind of what was like a domino effect after that. Nick did he ever talk to you or any of the guys about that moment? No, he actually never. Interesting. Like any sort of like, any one that.

56:26Tori, I'm curious. Did you like, why did you share that information about what he said during filming? And they just an era. No. What was your decision to kind of keep that to yourself? I think it was just early on. Like we just, we was like probably like two weeks after we got back from Cancun maybe. And I just like didn't really trust again. Like I think I'm always going to get swindled. Like and I was getting swindled. I felt like so I was just like, I don't you don't know who to trust and like who to talk to and I just was like, I'm not like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, you just, you were, you were still questioning the experiment even though you were kind of in the experiment. Yeah. And while also like, you know, I really actually did like, like I really did. And so like I actually like gave and I'm as a partner, I am really understanding to a point and then it kind of snaps. But like I really did give him a lot of grace and a lot of room to like, you know, just to get you know, I mean, like figure out what's going on in his head, which looking back

57:28now I'm like, oh, you've it. No, I mean like that. It's, it's, you seem like you have a sense of humor, but it's like hearing your point of view is fascinating because like the person who was questioning this experiment while going in the experiment and then you get partner with some like Felipe who's literally like, he's so my next show is going to be too hot to handle. That doesn't help your narrative of like, is this fucking real? Like, or is like, is he? It was like, it was like, learning another language is such a flex. It's really, really cool. And whether you want to become fluent in that other language or maybe you're just traveling or is that a stone is here to help you learn the language that you need? Reset a stone just came out with Rosetta Sapphire, their biggest launch in over a decade. It uses the research back method, Rosetta Stone is known for and adds new features to help you go from knowing a couple phrases to speaking confidently about the topic you care about. You're not just sitting there and memorizing vocabulary. You learn entirely in your new language through visuals and audio, which helps you pick

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1:00:33Why lie about the dating show on your wedding day? Yeah, people are accusing me of lying. I didn't lie. So I had so many, so we were allowed to bring, I think, like 25 friends and family to the wedding. So I had friends from all stages of my life, childhood friends, high school friends, college friends, Microsoft friends, reality TV friends, like all these groups and my reality friends were all in the circle. So then like right after we, you know, say our ideas, we're like talking about wedding guests and everything. And I've got these people from the circle. It's like, I did this thing called circle. It's not a dating show. I said that which look, it's not a lie. The circle's not a dating show. The perfect match is. Yeah, yeah. So I said, I did this circle is not a dating show. And then obviously later, not on our wedding day, I tell her about all the other shows that I went on. But I was like, maybe on my literal wedding day, it's not the time to like dump all of that onto her. Obviously, I addressed this. You can have guests from the circle on there.

1:01:37But yeah, then like, I will say when I was like, it's not a dating show, like that did, I was like, oh, should I maybe deeper into that? Like because I know that might seem, but like obviously, yes, I eventually do tell her that I was on a date show, but not on our wedding day. But I do remember distinctly like thinking like, maybe that's like not totally fair. To what context do you feel like that mattered to you or to her for saying that? I'm curious. Like I knew coming into this, there was going to be a huge stigma against me from having done TV shows before. And like, you know, I'm in the casting process and they're like, never before. Or do we have reality people on here? So I'm like, okay, this is going to be an uphill battle, but like I want to be married. And so like, this is going to be like this stigma. I have to fight. And so in my head, I was like, if on your literal wedding day, she has her like husband saying like, yeah, I've done these dating shows and blah, blah. Then it's like, it does seem like it's just like another dating show that he's going

1:02:40on. But in reality, I only done one dating show. It was perfect match. The other ones were competition shows, but I was like, I don't want to like, trauma dump that like on day one. I get the logic honestly. I could totally easily see you saying it on your wedding day. Now the narrative is the other. It's the inverse is flipped. It's you couldn't have waited a day to tell me like I kind of get the logic. No, literally. And people already just me saying talking about the circle because I had five guests from the circle at my wedding. So like just me talking about the circle, I was getting like tons of hate from people being like, really? You won't shut up about reality. Do you imagine if I told her everything was just like it be like, like, you can't really win either way. So I had to make like a jump all in the moment of like, how much should I tell her right now versus later? What's fair? How much about me is fair for her to know like right out the gate versus maybe in a day or two and like that kind of stuff. So do you think you were in your own head though? Because of how much how much reality TV experience you have? I was it honestly because everybody on Meredith Versite is on a reality show. So for me, I was like, no one here is going to clock me for being on real like sure.

1:03:42Maybe the I think it's fair for the audience to have their doubts to be like next on all these shows this evening's years. I don't think it's fair for anyone on the cast of Meredith Versite to hold it against me at all because by signing up for Meredith Versite, by definition, you're saying I'm willing to get married to someone who is also willing to go on reality TV. You want to be married to them unless they also sign up for Meredith Versite. So it's like, stand on that. You're already saying you're down for someone who's willing to get reality TV. So for me, I was like, it will be such a non issue. And I was like, I know it'll come up because it's an easy thing to talk about. But I was like, I'll be able to instantly like set that right straight. And I felt like I did with Courtney, honestly, in like the first day or two. She was like, okay, yeah, I actually believe you're here for the right reason, like whatever. And I thought I was like the end of it, but it ended up getting brought up like a couple more times. I'm sure like she had a producer's inner ear or something like continuing to bring it up or something. But yeah, I think it's like super hypocritical to go on Meredith Versite and then be like, actually, if you've done reality TV, I don't want to marry.

1:04:42My follow-up question to that is not necessarily questioning your intentions. But as someone who's done multiple dating shows, I'm just curious about like your mindset. Obviously, like you're very intellectual. I imagine like a thoughtful guy. And so like as you know, like this, like it's interesting to have Torion hearing her perspective because like you had never done reality TV. And these shows like, you know, love is blind-marif. They're truly the social experiments. They are controlled environments that, you know, like something can happen. These crazy shows, these crazy premises, but part of it is like kind of giving yourself to the experiment, which in like, you know, you can get into all nuance of like, you know, efficacy of producers and the way they guide you. But like, you know, if you really want to make this work, there's a little bit of blind faith in just letting go. And I'm curious for you, Nick, someone who's done reality TV, the more reality TV you do, the more like behind the curtain you see, the more familiar you get with production, it's harder to immerse yourself in the experiment.

1:05:44So like, and this is only my experience. So maybe yours was different, but like every time I went on, you know, by the time I was the bachelor, like I was definitely hoping to meet my person, but I was way more pragmatic and way more practical. And it was like, I'm the bachelor. I'm playing a role, you know, and then when I went on Paradise, I was like, there's no way I'm telling anyone I love them. But sure, if you want me to come on your silly show, I'll come on, you know, but like, because I was the guy who like gave in to the experiment twice, but by the time I was done with that, it was like, I can't even, I can't go there. So I'm curious like having done the other shows, knowing that you're about to like agree to marry someone you've never met, like were you at least questioning your ability to tap in to the experiment that you were like that, that you kind of needed to for this to work. Good question. Yeah. Honestly, I think this was the show that I was most all in on because I knew that it wouldn't work unless I was all in. And so like even I get in the first few episodes I'm in or whatever, I'm getting roasted

1:06:45on the internet for being so delusional because, you know, I'm poolside on my honeymoon chill in and I'm in my interviews like things are going great. Like I like Courtney. We're vibing. And then she's in her interview saying like everything's terrible. And like, they're like wow, Nick is so delusional. How can he not read the room? It's because I went in, so all in like wanting it to work and like so optimistic. I like told my whole family on the wedding day. I was like, I don't care what you think about whoever my life is. Just tell me that you're happy and like you hope it works because I don't need any red like I don't want any negativity or anything. So I actually went in like delusionaly optimistic for it for as long as I could. And then I think I gave the benefit of the doubt for a really long time, whereas like some things were coming up even in the honeymoon. But I was like, maybe it'll be different once we go to Seattle. And then like you're in Seattle. It's been a week. Well, it's only been a week in Seattle. Maybe like when I get to know her one more week, it'll be different. And so I kept like trying to kind of make excuses for maybe compatibility will be there

1:07:47at some point. And then eventually like obviously it we just had to call it off. But I was very much all in on it. When was the moment you were all out? Well, I mean, obviously when we said we were done, the real all out. But like when you knew when you were like, I can't, there's no fucking way. There were red flags right out the gate, like literally like day two or three or something. She had said how like her family makes fun of people that hold hands in public. Like if they see a couple walking holding hands, they're like, and I'm like, you're a whole family. Yeah, everyone. So that was like kind of an initial difference, which is why I think we got assigned Dr. Lisa as our expert because she's like this sexology person. And so I think it was like our first rift was around physical affection. So we got assigned Dr Lisa. But the real when I knew I was fully all out, we had done a trip to Austin that doesn't get air. And the whole one of the big selling points of the trip was to get to know the real me.

1:08:49Because for some reason, she had this like, narrative that like I was reading a script and like just being performative for cameras. It was like Nick, if you're in the city you live in Austin, there's no camera crew with us. And I was like, sick, let's do it. I'll try anything. And so we like come to Austin and the very first night was to spend a whole evening together get sushi, go like shopping, like all this stuff. And she tries to cancel on me and says she has a friend's birthday party. Wait, what? You're in Austin for filming and she made other plans. We have like production iPhones to film diary cams, but we didn't have a function team with us. But yeah, it was literally two days to get to know each other and day one she's like, Nick, can we actually maybe not do sushi? And I actually also have a birthday party tonight. And I was like, um, in Austin. Yeah, like actually no, it'd be sick if we maybe like, didn't cancel our sushi reservation. And so we ended up getting sushi for for one hour. And then I was like, want to go get a drink? She's like, nope, I'm, I feel nauseous or something.

1:09:49And like, went home. So we saw each other one hour for day one. So she didn't even go to the birthday party. I don't know. She might have not. I don't know. She went to the birthday party. Yeah, wait. She definitely went to the birthday party. And then we went to the sushi made her nauseous. Yeah. When did this take place in the timeline of y'all story though? Yeah. So then we had the next day where we get like dinner with her friends and my friends. And the dinner's actually really fun. And then we go out and I don't really see much of her. And then we end up like, I kind of tell her like, hey, I thought we would spend more time together in awesome book. And then it's kind of what you see in the show too, where it's like, when I do express my feelings and stuff, it gets shut down. And so she ended up like crying and leaving. And so we didn't really see each other much that day either. So then that night I called production and I'm like, I have to end it. Like this is not going to work. So like at that moment, I absolutely knew I was fully done. I was like, this is just not going to work. And so then it shows me in the room with Courtney saying, I don't see how this is going to work long term.

1:10:50And that's part of like a bigger discussion where we're like talking about the Austin trip and stuff. And then Courtney says, she kind of agrees that the trip was terrible. And we have like no compatibility, but she's like, they don't air her saying this, but she's like, I just don't want to throw in the towel. I don't want to give up yet. So then I guess stupidly or something, I was just like, maybe there will be a change. And so right after that conversation, we go to the group session. And that's where the experts keep saying like, what's the point of staying? What's the point of staying? And then we're like, wait, why are we staying? We kind of ended it. How honest with Courtney were you in the sense that like, it sounds like you just fundamentally disagreed with her point of view. And if we're being real, like you kind of thought she was the problem. And like, because you just said, okay, maybe you'll change, right? Like, you know, I don't want, she doesn't want to give up. And you're thinking, okay, well, the only way this works is if you change, how honest with you or where you about how much change she needed to make for you to make for you to be happy? It was actually a really difficult conversation to have because I would try telling her

1:11:50some things like, I don't feel hurt. Like when I'm expressing my vulnerabilities in my thoughts, I feel like you're shutting them down. But then she would like shut me down saying that and stuff. So like, that was hard. But then I also didn't want to discredit the fact that she did end up giving me like, a hug a day and like, a pack on the, like, left whatever. And so like, I didn't want to discredit that. But it was also like a weird situation because like for me, the physical side of things was progressing enough. And like, there was obvious, you can point, that's the thing about like physical side of things. You can point to that and be like, I gave you a hug. So I'm doing work. And like me, it was a lot harder to demonstrate that change of me being more vulnerable because it's like, how do you want to buy that that's hard? And it's like, I felt like when I was trying, it was like not being received. It would be like me telling Courtney, like, can you give me a hug a day and then what you try to hug me, I like stiff armor. And then I'm like, why aren't you hugging me? Like that's kind of the situation that I was in.

1:12:53It's like, I would try to be vulnerable. It gets shut down and then to be like, why are we not being vulnerable? So like that was hard. But so I was like trying to like give her props for what I could obviously see on like the physical affection side. But then also somehow try to be like, I don't feel like I'm heard. I want to get feel compliments and feel warm and flirty with you and whatever. But like a lot of those softer things, I think are hard to at least work hard for me to A, like probably fully verbalize. And then also I've tried, but I'm sure I didn't do the best job. And then B, it's like hard to track and movement to honor like show that someone's putting in effort. Interesting. Tory, I'm curious when when Felipe at the end of the finale was like, can we just be friends? Was that super annoying or the perfect kind of button to put on kind of the ridiculousness of like how his expectations of relationships? At that point, like I remember like when he was talking to me and he said that I was like,

1:13:56whatever he's taking, I want some of that. I think it just, it got to such a point of ridiculousness that you couldn't even justify like, oh, well, you know, maybe like we kept a friend or maybe like our families are different. And I do know I will say this. I think I don't know about erud at reunion, but I did say this of like, I have friends that are from Costa Rican. They also said, and I have some friends from Brazil, but they also said that like South America, how they raised their sons and daughters, like culturally, like it's a little different than the US. And so how he was raised, I feel like aligns with that. But this is just such a stretch of like, can we be friends or at this point, after he said how he cheated on me constantly. And I know the show, the way they era that was like, it's going to be this huge thing or huge bomb. But I think at that point, I just was like, so over it, but you couldn't even really come to grips of like how he got to that thinking.

1:14:56And it was like at this point when he revealed the like cheating on me constantly, he's like crying, is he saying it? And I mean, like if he cried on command, it is impressive. Like I will say. So I think at that point, it just was like, I didn't even know what was like real or what wasn't. And it was just totally like, such a, and when he told me the constantly cheating part, that's the point where I was like, okay, so like all of this pretty much was like a complete act for him. And so it just was like ridiculous, but I was like, how I don't know if it's phony or whatever, but it just like, hard for the course. The reunion, he said that he, you know, he was like, it's been a year. I've really changed. I've done the work. Do you believe that he's capable of changing and doing the work within a year time span? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I feel like the things that we were even talking about reunion, he was like, yeah, that was spliced like, and it wasn't. And it was like for me, it's like how much of you changed it after like, if like Marissa

1:15:57and I are both like, that's not spliced. So I don't know, it didn't sound like it very much. You got away on us, but I also think people who say I've changed and done the work haven't because you would be more specific. Yeah. What did you change and what was the work you thought you needed to do? Tori, I have a question. Do you know the taxi cab theory? Do you and do you think that Felipe is somebody that will ever turn their light green? Like do you think he'll ever be ready to settle down? Or do you think that he's just going to live his life forever? I don't know, because I do know like, I mean, there's kind of like, again, going back to cultural and not trying to like, you know, totally lean on that. But I do think that like, there's kind of a stigma with Brazilian guides, but I also think that there's also a ton of, you know, just as many Brazilian guys who are married and happy. So, and without the risk. But I feel like with Felipe, I don't really know because like I said, there's this too hot to handle comments. And then there's this like, giddiness to talk to the guys after we were intimate. So I just like, there was just so much proof that he just so we thought in that speech.

1:17:02Were you going to date Felipe like a couple days before? Does it like, did you see Felipe's thread three hours ago where he said, my ex-wife asked if I wanted to date after the show three days before decision day, story time on TikTok whenever I'm get bored on vacation. Nick, thank you for your, sorry, investigating. Yo, woesbombs, shams alert. Welcome to the valve holiday. Victoria, do you wish to comment on this egregious allegation? Yes. So when we were talking at the bedroom, basically when he was talking about these cheating comments and things like that and the too hot to handle and those types of things, when he was saying that and also as he was saying that, I was believing in which again, this is like the dumbest thing I think ever. But so I really believed that it was kind of an act for him to get clout. And so then when we were talking on the bed about this and earlier when he first dropped

1:18:05his cheating comments, he basically told me that he was so stressed out because he really wanted to say yes, but it would have been like, we're married and I was like, we don't have to like, there's other options in this. Like we don't have to get married because he was acting really stressed out about it. So that's where he was kind of like playing it from that angle. And then that's how that conversation got up later is because we were discussing dating after. So you are being pragmatic about just the situation you two were in. Yes. And now he's using that as a way to get clout again. Sounds about right. And also like you can change your phone. You can a lot can change in three days on reality TV, including your point of view and whether you want to have someone in your life. So yeah, thanks for the t Nick. Yeah, Nick, you're messy for that. And I love it. Did you know that he had posted that, Tori? I didn't, but I had I really had a hunch because he set how to post on Instagram like that

1:19:06she was going to do some live that the real truth was coming out. So I knew because there wasn't anything that was really. Well, maybe he's going to write a tell all like, um, yeah, oh, we can only hope. Give us the tell. But I did, I did have a feeling because that's kind of the only thing that he could kind of like stretch like that. Um, and then the other thing on threads, it's he's kind of a hooted like he just got on there, but it is funny. But he also said like a couple days ago, like I also said no for the record. I saw that. So he's having a time. What do you mean like because he was going to, but you beat him to it or something? Yeah. Like I think that he just wants for the record. I was going to say no. Also, so it's kind of like I said, heart for the course. Well, I mean, technically he did. He said he just wanted to be friends and and she and she don't know. Yeah. 100% and I also think every union what I think we know fully by. Yeah, we got it. But at couples are tree, I didn't see this because I was crying. But when you hopped off the bed, did you guys see that?

1:20:07He hopped off the bed and it was like he was going to Chuck E. Cheats. Tory, I literally was like when you said you can go back to your single life. And he was like, all right. Like I've never seen him move with such. Yeah, pep in a step. There was it was crazy. I didn't see it and just watching it back and I was like, oh, okay. And then he goes downstairs and he's like shoulders hung low and he needs the guys to help him up. That looked like an actual acting performance where he like tried to like melt on his boy. Nick, are you offended that you got all the heat for your, your, your right reasons? Well, Felipe is out there. I think Felipe is getting his fair amount of cheat. I want to want to switch spots. Tory, do you feel cheated from this experience because like, you know, hearing your point of view, it does make me sad because I think it's a very human thing to question these experiments the first time you're going in.

1:21:07And you got paired with someone who quite frankly, like made it more confusing and because it sounds like honestly, Felipe didn't take it all that serious. And maybe it's because he doesn't think himself, maybe he doesn't take his dating life that serious, but like for a guy who's, you know, all jokes aside, talking about going on too hot and to handle and his partner on the other side is like, hey, I'm going to show up to this thing. I'm going to agree to do this crazy thing. Get married. I'm going to put my trust in a lot of people, including the person across from me who's also green due to the scary thing. And yet it seems like he didn't take it all that serious. Yeah. I don't, I feel like he didn't also, but I think I, like I don't regret it and I don't, like you, you get through it and stuff. But I also think like what I learned in the process and also like when he did all this stuff, like when he told me like I thought about cheating on you constantly, I like no one knows this, but I completely like, again, I did not at all give him anything, but

1:22:09I was like the way he said it and how he like delivered all this, like he was this victim trapped in this body that wants to sleep with everything. And sorry, I was so tortured. And so I just, like, chill and I just was like, babe, it's just a show. It's just a show. And then I just like totally like, and it, because I just couldn't give him a single anything at that point, because it just was like a train wrecking, being drug up and down the street, like through this. And so, so he didn't know that I did the diary came at the end. And so it was, it was awfully, I don't know what to say. Like it just was like, in the end, like I feel like I got out alive. I hate that you feel that way though. It sucks. Anyways, the personification of my mind is telling me no. But my body. My body. He really is. Nick, should we talk about you trying to come for my husband?

1:23:13I was informed about this morning. I was talking about it. About the number of reality shows he's been on. We're different. Oh, was there a different one? That's our different one. Well, I just don't know how much research you all did. So I'm like, you literally not. Literally not. That's so funny. Are you going to spin the block for somebody else partner that relationship didn't work out? I'm curious about this. I'm with Jalissa. No, no, no, I'm actually seeing someone. We're actually going glamping for a few days right after this. I was hoping that he was going glamping with. How long have you been dating this person? Like almost two months. I think like around time, the reunion, we had only been seeing each other for like a week or two. You didn't want to bring her to the reunion like Adam. Yeah. Now, yeah, it's been a while. It's I would not recommend starting to date someone as your marriage is being broadcast on TV. It's not the best timing, but it's been like nice to be able to talk through too early to say she's the one will find out. See, I'm not like, like, married at first sight or something, but like they're all

1:24:14the two and in. Stay tuned. Next time on Let's Pick Nick. Are you done with reality TV competition shows? If this doesn't work out, would you explore Love Is Blind? Oh, I'm absolutely done with reality dating shows would never do another one, but competition shows I would for sure do like traders, but not let's marry Nick. Age of attraction? Age of attraction? No, I'm done with date. I'm almost 33. I'm not doing any more dating shows. I heard from a bird or maybe you said this already online, but it's you didn't think what Nick said to Courtney at the reunion was that bad. What Adam said to Courtney, excuse me, what Adam said to Courtney about the pick-ball stuff, where like he made her cry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So all Adam said, I mean, she said it in a mean bad guy tone, but all he said was like, I would not have been able to last a week with Courtney and she also sucks at pick-ball. Like, that's not that deep. He kind of doubled down though. Do we agree that Adam's reaction was more insane than Courtney's response to Adam's?

1:25:20I just couldn't believe he went full on high school Jim bro, who's like, I can whip your ass and pick a ball. And what felt mean about it as a viewer is that it was giving the internet's matching him and her and he's offended by it. And he had such a weird reaction that it was like, and that if you received it that way if you're Courtney is pretty fucking mean. Yeah. So I think that what in reality happened was he was kind of getting dog piled on a bit at the reunion. Like everyone bringing up receipts to different things. And so I'm sure he felt like defensive about it. And like, then that question gets asked and he just had all these like emotion building up and kind of let it out on her. And that's why there was so much like heat and emotion behind it. But I don't think it was like, I mean, I'm just guessing, but like, I don't think it was all actually like because of Courtney, like directed at Courtney, but it was like, she was taking a lot of heat at the reunion and she was just like the next question I got asked about him and it's just like, got to go. That feels like it makes it worse. It feels like you don't have the emotional charity maybe like, let me not take this out

1:26:23on her right now. I'm curious though. I know obviously everything said and done now. And Adam has said that he couldn't last a week with her. But if they were originally paired, this is like for both of you guys, do you think that it could have worked? Like if they both stepped into the arranged marriage and were like, okay, let's see if we can make this work. To me on paper, they actually seem like they would make sense, but they're just very intense. What do you all think? Yeah, I don't think it would just because I feel like Adam, I don't know, I feel like, yeah, I don't think that work. I think they're both maybe Adam, like Alphas or like wanting to lead the church. Like I don't know if you saw, but like, you know, Adam wants things a certain way all throughout the season. And I think that like Courtney also would want to do her own thing. And I think that would probably be a problem. I also would agree with Nick. I think it was misplaced energy because it was coming off of right after the hinge comments and all of that stuff. And I don't think he realized that Morris has been like literally like, I mean, every other girl she talks to in Seattle has receipts of Adam.

1:27:26So like, it's just been like preco cases. So I think that it was like, I think he was really shaking because he wasn't into speeding it happening. But all of it was true and all of it did happen. But I think he was totally putting it towards Courtney over those things. And I don't think what he said was really egregious. But I also think that it was like he got worked up and he's gotten worked up at group dinners before or like some comments. And so I knew that that was probably going to happen. So that's why I also said something just was like, it had nothing to do with Courtney. Why he was worked out. It does make, I mean, him and his new girlfriend, if they're still together, they do seem like a match made in heaven because she was like, and that's why I can beat him and pickleball. As soon as his arms healed, I'm beating him and pickleball. And it's like, okay, you too. Was he obsessed with Jeske's is the showlet on? It's Jeske's culture, bro. Like if you have a Jeske, you like to take girls on a Jeske. I do have a Jeske and it's nice for like a spin now and then. I am currently up at the lake and I've used it once.

1:28:28It's nice. You know, took my daughter on you rip in the Jetsky. Took it for a spin, you know, but he seemed, he seemed deeply obsessed. You an adip should race. He was obsessed with Jetsky's amicable. But then like, obviously when you're watching the show and they're taking conversation, like it seems more obsessed than it was, but he for sure has deep passion for Jetsky. Yeah, actually, I haven't said what's but like, so like I said, with like every other girl Seattle has some type of story, but I didn't realize this. But when we were starting to film and the Jetsky's got brought up, I was like, oh, I matched on Raya. Like maybe like seven, eight months ago or something. I was like, there was a Jetsky guy and it was. Did you have swim socks in the photos? No, some socks were present. No, swim socks. That was a new, that was a new fountain. How did Adam get on Raya? That's a great question. They had me on the Dan Wait list for a minute.

1:29:29They do that to reality guys. Now this was before. Oh, you know what? What was the pick up line? What did he say to you? It was something and like we know from from the Rico case. We know that it's like his line that he uses, but it was something like, Hey, I have a Jetsky. Do you want to like do it? Don't you browned on the Jetsky and that I think I said like, can I like where you are floating or whatever and you like bump them off and you just like whip them around. So I was like, yeah, can I just like whip you off? And then I don't remember what he said, but I didn't reply to that. So. So you've messaged on Raya and Hinge. Yeah. He is finding you everywhere. He messaged you. Jetsky dudes, man, you got to watch out for if they sing on Nick night. And I was like, yes, you're on. I like Jetsky. They're fun, but like if you own a Jetsky, I'm tell a man, no, no boys with Jetskies.

1:30:30All red flags tell you. I think that he's it's true. His passion is true. That's fascinating. Wild. Tori, are you dating anyone? No. I'm a while. I'm going on. I like not dating it. I think there's a really great man out there for you. I think you're the full package. Thank you. Hey, Nick, were those tears real at the start of the show? Not at the end. Oh, I know the star. Those were very real with my dad and everything getting all emotional for my wedding day. The tears of the end were real, but I think they were mainly of relief, to be honest. Like that it was over. I can't understand that. Nick and Tori really appreciate you guys taking the time. This was a fun conversation. It's a it's a fascinating show. And thanks for the insight on what you guys have been through. It was a trip to watch. I'm sure it was even tripier to experience. And Nick have fun on your date. Thank you. A clamping trip. And Tori, best of luck. You don't need it to hear from us, but it seems like you have a lot going for you.

1:31:33And I'm sure nothing but great things ahead, especially for your love life. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Take care guys. Appreciate it. Bye. Bye guys. Later squad. Good to see you. All right. Well, that will wrap up today's episode. Thank you for listening. We'll see you back on Tuesday. We have the Queen herself, Heather DeBro will have also some more cast members from Meredith first site to really wrap up that season. And so much more. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the episode with Corbin that going deeper dropped yesterday. Always great to have you Jimmy and Susie. I love you. Natalie. I hope that goes without saying. We will see you next time.