E136 - Are Young Men Locking Themselves Into Lives They'll Regret? | Rob The Bank

This is the first time I've talked about it.

Imagine being with someone for 15 years,

and then waking up one day,

and you find out they were maybe planning to kill you.

Took $5,000, turned it into a $30 million company.

Before he was featured in Forbes,

he was just a college basketball player

with $5,000 in a dream.

Rob, all of a A.K.A. Mr. Rob, the bank.

You get energy from doing things you like.

It doesn't drain you.

The stuff that drains you is the stuff you hate.

Clocking into a shitty job, a shitty relationship.

Once you start looking at that,

in like a very matter-of-fact way,

you realize how much you're leaving on the table online.

The monetization behind the art

is a timeless question in a capitalist system.

Because if you boil down economics and life,

half of the thing is guy's desire

to fucking reproduce and be around pretty girls.

Social media is the blessing and the curse

where we have the ability to turn that into like a real thing,

a real business, but it all comes down like the packaging.

You're doing the content,

you're obviously managing the businesses,

but then you're also pursuing this passion

of coming to DJ producer.

From all of that was your biggest takeaway.

So honestly, like one of the biggest takeaways actually.

Just a quick one guys,

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Let's get into the video.

What's up guys and welcome back to first things first,

we are in Miami and with Rob the Bank part two.

My thirst and we are so back, you know, my turf.

How far is this?

It was two years ago we last link up.

I think even, yeah, maybe a two and a half,

it's the April, yeah.

The time has been flying.

My life has changed so much since that podcast.

And thank you, you're one of the first people,

like that was my early social media career

where we're gonna call it.

I don't know if I should say thank you

because it's like, it was always a spiral up,

down sideways, but it was definitely the jump off.

Yeah, it was always real.

It happened, I think.

That's what went down very well.

Yeah, no, it was a, to this date,

you've been one of the, you're a guy

who's been around the world in a good way.

And I think, you know, you have a lot of great perspective

and it's fun to talk, so look forward to it.

Nice man.

It's our duty for these like young kids.

You're in Miami, you see it, right?

No, yeah.

Like they're, they need guidance, they need structure.

That's a, yeah, there's a lot of questionable role models

and characters that these people are looking up to.

So I feel like I have a duty, you feel like,

you've obviously got a duty as well.

Get them on the right path.

Absolutely.

Those people are easily straight on the wrong one.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I feel like you've seen some things in Miami already.

You've been here like a week or two.

Where it jumps out, talk to me.

No, it's just the, it's like the characters you see in the gym.

The, I don't know, like the energy in some places

is a, it's a very sort of flashy materialistic vibe.

I mean, obviously I see that in Dubai as well,

but I don't know, Miami just seems a little bit different.

In good ways and bad ways though.

Like if I was living in Dubai,

I could see myself living here.

It has everything here that I would want.

Yeah, yeah.

But it also has a, it's wild though.

Aggressive.

Well, it doesn't feel like a real place.

And I think that capital, like captures a lot of the world

sometimes.

Like I hate it here.

You know, I hate it here.

Like I think it's important for where I'm at

with what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to create,

but there's no real, there's no real business in Miami.

It is all money laundering, only fans, girls and like scammers.

Like that, that is the, like I grew up in Seattle.

Yeah.

And I kind of, I get associated with Miami a lot

because I'm here, but I'm between here in Puerto Rico.

Yeah.

And when you're here, like I've been a builder in my entire life

I've built companies like we've, we've talked about that.

Yeah.

Nobody does that here.

Like actually, it's, it's who is playing the status game

at the highest level and at the very top of that,

you run into like, you know, a Russian oligarch

who's parking his money and probably like Dubai, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there's nothing real from like a building perspective in Miami.

You go up to, you go up to, you know, Boca, West Palm.

You start to get that New York money where it's still

probably money laundering, but like legal here, like that sort of thing.

Was you think some of these people who have a lot of money here

have made it elsewhere, but they've just kind of,

yeah, you come to spend it here.

Yeah.

The city is optimized for that, you know, the, the clubs are 24, seven.

The women are quite literally for sale everywhere you go.

It's not, not directly, but it's like, you know,

I'm sure the Chanel store here does record numbers.

I think, yeah.

And I don't think anyone speaks on that directly enough.

Like the, the young kids coming up, get hooked on.

They see a breath of scale, it's moved to Miami, get his

eventador, and then all of a sudden, like that's the dream

they see in their head, I have to come to Miami and build.

Yeah.

99 out of 100 kids who come here and get lost, right?

They get, they get stuck on this treadmill of like trying to impress

and it leads to like an empty life.

And so I don't really know what to do with that.

Like I said, like I'm making moves in music.

There's a lot of things I'm trying to do, or Miami's the center of it.

Yeah.

But I truly do hate it here on so many levels.

Did you buy a place here?

No, okay.

So you just, I rent a place and, yeah, yeah.

And I want to buy a place here, like even one to, I want it.

No, I want it.

And the whole like, it's like way more, it makes sense, they push you to rent.

Like the, the numbers on, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Damn.

So you're, you spend most of your time in, if you're not in Miami's Puerto Rico or you

just travel around.

A lot of travel in Puerto Rico.

Yeah.

I've been here a lot.

Like don't get me wrong.

I've been here a lot.

I just can't say.

But that's made me like it less.

Yeah.

Okay.

What are you focusing on now, then?

Because you said you changed a lot over the past two years.

I'm very all in on the brand new Rob.

Yeah.

I'm very all in on the music side of things.

I've grown in social media and I've seen it hit kind of a ceiling of like, I guess, what

would you consider my content?

Like very self-improvement.

Well, yeah.

From what I've seen, which has been interesting, which I have admired personally, the whole transition

into music, not only DJing, but producing.

That's cool as fuck.

Because I can see like how much you love it, like you really do love it and I like house

music as well.

Yeah.

I appreciate it.

And then on top of that, you found out this like really cool formula of making these short

form videos very well produced, but with a very strong message.

Yeah.

And you deliver it very well.

Thank you.

And I mean, that's clearly worked wonders for like engagement and growth and branding.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we're moving into an era where it's important to be able to say you can do multiple

things.

You can do like whatever.

You can create a life that is robust, right?

We're kind of forced to like, that's one thing that killed me when I was first starting

content wise.

Might have talked about it with you two years ago, but it's like, I hate being in this

business box.

Like, yeah, like I've built a business.

I understand.

It was TikTok shop.

Like, I understand this well, but like, I'm a person, you know what I mean?

I have other interests.

I've had different walks of life.

And so social media is the blessing and the curse where we have the ability to turn that

into like a real thing, a real business, but it all comes down like the packaging and

like what you're doing.

And this is one thing I know I told you back then and it's for me and true, you're the

same.

You're not.

You might have started in fitness and done this, but you have this intellectual side.

You're building the podcast.

Every single vlog you do is a is art, right?

And I know you feel that.

Like, you're not just thrown out of a vlog and that's how I view everything too.

And for the kids, like, looking at me, I think it's important.

You can just do things.

You can just go.

You can just do it.

You get ridiculed for all the time.

You want to believe how much like music in particular is the most political, like, strange

industry.

And so I get all sorts of like to, to like, for you on the outside, like, this is cool.

He's going for it to like the DJ who's like trying to climb the ladder.

Who's like this deep artist, just automatically hates me for everything I am.

And it's like, man, if he has a contact at this label, then they'll never talk to me.

And it's like, it's been strange.

But one thing is crazy.

It's like, I'm watching it.

I'm like, how are you, you seem to be like doing a lot of things at the same time, like

you're doing the content, you're obviously managing the businesses, but then you're also

pursuing this passion of becoming a DJ producer, which for a lot of people who are doing that,

like, any DJ or producer out there is doing that full time.

Yeah.

You're doing like all these different things as well, so it's, and that's where I think

when I said life-maxing way back then, right, like we want to be, you get energy from

doing things you like.

Yeah.

It doesn't drain you.

The stuff that drains you is the stuff you hate.

The stuff that drains you is clocking into a shitty job.

The stuff that drains you is a shitty relationship.

And so when you're pursuing things that, you said it, you see the music lights me on

fire.

That activates me.

I get upset when I get pulled from it.

I get upset.

So it's really become a kind of like self-developed like system where it's like, okay, this is

an adding to my life.

It has to go.

And it's kind of, then you take a step back.

You don't realize how many people are bogged down by things they absolutely hate, like relationships

being a huge one, right, like like they just become like a, or whatever.

But then, you know, jobs, expectations for other people, like people do things for other

people a lot that make no sense for them.

And it's like once you start looking at that in like a very matter-of-fact way, you realize

how much you're leaving on the table in life.

Yeah.

You know, you said about the music industry or the DJ industry, weird, like I'm political,

like how in what way?

That's the most click-ish, like cool kids club you would ever imagine.

So let's just talk about it.

Like if you're, okay, so if you're on, you're coming into the game.

Yep.

Nobody wants to give you a chance.

And not only does no one want to give you a chance, like my thing's different.

I get some love because I have a following and I get some extreme hate, like they'd

never work with me because of that.

So if you go to like a, you've been all around Ibiza, right, there's all the different

clubs.

There's Pasha.

There's solid grooves.

And each of those, like if you play for a certain party, yeah, yeah, they won't let

you play it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Because they've got, it was called the Night League, which is basically high and what's

a new spot in the universe.

Yeah.

So they've got like the DJs that play there and not permit to play anywhere else.

And then you've got like Destino, which is now Pasha, which is obviously the, does the

hotel, or the five now, and then the Pasha, the nightclub.

They have those DJs.

Yep.

And there's a privilege, which is like separate one, where they have their, like they're

always very close.

And then even within the clubs, there's like groups.

So you'll have like the UK guys, like the, you know, Max Dean, Christus, he like, they'll

play the same lineup.

But then you'll have like the, the Israeli guys, Macabi, Adam Tan, like they're all over

here.

And they have someone like, like, you know, my good friend, Blondish over here who's

kind of like, because then the sound plays in it.

It's coolness and then sound.

And everyone is like jokking into like, where they fit and like, who's cool?

Who's doing this?

You know, if you play at Pasha on Wednesday with Blondish, okay, cool, you're not going

to play solid grooves with, you know, Michael, BB and, and that's like, that's really how

it is.

And then so for, for me coming into this, it's been like, especially polarizing, because

like everyone knows I'm serious at this point, right?

At first, it's like, oh, you know, Rich guy or influencer guy getting the music.

And it's like, oh, no, okay, yeah, he's actually like, seriously pursuing this.

What do we do with that?

Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, it's love, it's passion, it's like, like, and, and more

and more people are respecting that.

But it's still been so strange to kind of like, see it, you know, like, you think the

social media, you weren't fitness, right?

Like, early on.

Remember how strange that world was, like, political and like, self-studying?

Still is.

Still is, right?

Probably even worse now.

Probably.

Everybody's just like bitching about each other.

Yeah.

I was like, very, in that world.

When I tell you music is actually like 10x crazier, like, trust me, it's, and you

see, I think you kind of see why, you know, it's like people are competing to be global

superstars at the end of the day, like, house music to like this, they'll have something

like Drake or the weekend or like, those types of names will probably be born from this

world.

But boy, it's, uh, for someone who just loves it.

Yeah.

Okay.

I guess one of those things where if you want to succeed, you just have to let your art

do the talking.

And then everyone just, they can't say anything.

Like if you produce a track, which is just a fucking hit, then everyone on the beach silence

that we like.

Oh, okay.

Kind of, kind of, because then it comes back to what is your art, because it's like this

compilation of stuff is like how you present yourself on social media, plus the song,

plus the, like, your whole life becomes the art to be accepted, because there's, there's

bangers.

Peggy Hughes like that.

Peggy Hughes, a perfect example.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because a lot of DJs don't like her, because they're like, oh, she's got no talent.

Exactly.

Like, she's just, John Summit is a phenomenal example too.

Yeah.

And what you have to do is just say, fuck it.

Like, I know I'm going, like, John Summit used to get ridiculed.

But he makes music for the girls and the gays.

Mm-hmm.

And he's like, yeah.

Yeah, I do.

And you go to a John Summit party, and it's all girls, you know, and all the people.

And what does that bring?

The guys who pay a lot of money for tables, and all of a sudden he's got like a, you know,

whole thing.

Yeah.

But there's a lot of ridicule in that.

Peggy's the same way.

Like Peggy gets, she gets clowned, and it doesn't matter because again, she's bringing

out huge crowds with good people, and she's making dope.

Yeah, exactly.

But to get there, you do have to go through a lot of strange, like, hate.

Yeah.

How did you, uh, form this relationship with Blondish?

She actually had followed me, like, a year prior to me getting into music.

She's very, I guess, like, interested in, she runs her whole label, her whole event thing.

Like, it's a hell of a business, so she's very interested in, like, the business side

of things.

And they've, like, experimented with adding on products.

And so that's why she had followed me, like, a year prior.

And then as I got kind of interested, someone's like, yo, this, you know, she, she follows

you.

She's a pretty big deal.

And I was like, okay.

Cool.

You know, I hit her up and then eventually got lunch and ended up being, she's, she's,

yeah, been.

She seems cool.

She's one of the, the best, like, genuine people I've ever met.

Yeah.

Also on, like, most artistic people I've ever met, which is a funny combination.

Yeah.

Like, like, she's most DJs of producers, the streaming artistic, because they're, they're

very smart.

Yeah.

And a lot of time just on a keep on a, whatever it is, the friggin' board where you're

making all the stuff and you mix in everything.

Yeah.

We joke.

I communicate better with her with, like, sounds and, and sounds.

It's hardly a joke, it's true.

But when you talk about just, like, energy and, like, good heart, and, like I said, like,

I think is she kind of continues to grow.

People are going to find her whole story and world fascinating.

Hmm.

Because she's, she's a monster.

Like, like, she's gotten to break through the way she is.

Like, that's been one that hasn't been, like, a lot of help.

Yeah.

Like, she's just, she's really good.

She knows she's good.

She keeps showing up.

She's obsessed with all the details, like, she's, and it's, it's breaking through for

her.

Yeah.

One thing that interests me about, like, the, the world of producing and, like, house

music, I always wonder if you, you either use AI or AI become so good that it will just,

you give it some prompts and it can just make a hit.

And maybe it can get some, like, AI vocals, and it just somehow produces the absolute

perfect house tune that goes viral or, or, or, or, music's math, right?

Yeah.

And, and, uh, the AI is so good, and I'm a, I'm a technology guy, like, I'm already

there.

So this is one of my songs.

I might get, like, a St. John to re-sing it.

This is AI.

Yeah.

Completely AI.

The, the boy.

Is that not, Nadi?

Like, would you ever think that's a, no, not never in a million years, and it's there.

It's there right now, but that's another point of contention where, like, what is the

art?

It's creating what?

I wrote every lyric about song.

Okay.

So you write the lyrics and I wrote every lyric and play with the, and then you play with

the prompting and you create, and then we changed the baseline to be more club-esque,

like, this wasn't a finished, you're playing this at, you know, music on or, or without

or just, you know, but that vocal is still 100% AI and it's crazy good, like, it's crazy

good.

So we're going to experience insane disruption across the board.

If you want it, but that's going to come back to content, that's going to come back

to, to everything.

Yeah.

You heard about dead internet theory?

No.

I'm like a little fucking, I just ping all over the place.

But there's this idea that, you know, soon, like, like, the internet is going to be,

like, damn near all bots.

And I think, like, when you should about, like, people leaving

comments and stuff, like, in what way bots?

Producing content, scrolling, or, like, interacting with each other.

And I think we're probably already way further than we realize.

Like, have you spent, do you spend much time consuming content?

Sometimes it gets me.

Like, do you ever notice, wait, and you've been in this world long enough, too?

You notice where, like, a lot of the same ideas are getting repeated and regurgitated?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, you'll see, like, the same hook or, like, I see people copy my videos all the time.

Like, I'm guilty of being inspired by some, too.

But what's going to happen is, like, you've seen these AI agents that can scan and, well,

they're going to go take those videos, recreate it, do a voiceover, and put it up to the

internet.

And they can do a thousand lows a day.

Yeah.

And the era of social media we grew up in where everything on Instagram, like, mattered

is gone.

Yeah.

Because now people are just on a 4U page.

So it really is who can post the most in a day?

Like, that's who wins.

That's why TJR wins.

Yeah.

He posts 50 TikToks a day.

And it's like a clipping army that's putting stuff out at scale.

You take a step back.

When the AI gets to the point of being able to recreate that all the time, it's going

to flood the internet.

And people are going to get so, hopefully, people are going to get so sick of it, they're

going to log off.

And we're about to realize that that really is one of my predictions with music.

I think, like, live events and all that stuff is going to experience like an incredible

surge because people are going to be so sick of AI Slop and AI Slop comes in different

forms.

But we're, like, right there.

Give it a year.

It's definitely getting there because I don't even see my friend, like, I follow a couple

hundred people.

And to be honest, I just want to see this stuff and what they're up to.

And I'm not even seeing them.

You know, you open up, you see what's viral, you see what's being served to you.

Yeah.

And it's really good though, because it keeps you.

It's like interest-based, right?

So it's like super specific to like what you like, like don't get me wrong.

Sometimes that's these stuff.

And I'm like rolling on the floor.

Yeah.

No, exactly.

Just like, like, I kind of, I didn't need to see this.

Like 20 minutes has gone.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Because these algorithms are wildly powerful in there.

And I have so many like deeper theories that you can never talk about and short form stuff.

But the world is changing in such a way that like even money as we knew it and stuff

is like on its last, last tail end.

You think about like the AI industry right now.

You hear about all the time.

I mean, like trillions of dollars going into it.

There's no path to making money.

Like open AI has no credible path to restoring the ultimately, they're going to raise trillions

of dollars and deploy it.

And AI is like a, it's like a national security thing.

Like the Chinese government, the US government, like everyone's pouring into it.

All this money going into it is never going to be repaid.

And it's going to just fundamentally like, you know, we'll get universal basic income

on like a, on a surf level.

And then that's going to keep like, I don't even mean it to be like a doomsday thing because

it'll be very efficient.

Like eventually there'll be robots and like all the basic needs of humanity will be taken

care of.

But money's not going to matter.

You know what I'm saying?

Like all of a sudden it's not going to be like, this is a very weird topic.

I'm like, how far away do you think we are from that?

Way closer than people think, like probably a couple years, like actually, I think there

will be like big events like that start, even like this worn out, you know, these

things that start happening, it opens up the, the floodgates for, you know, radical

changes.

Yeah.

A lot of, I think, yeah, for sure.

And that's coming.

I mean, you mentioned before you were thinking about, we'll move into Dubai and now you're

not so sure anymore.

No, I think, I mean, who, like, who knows what's going to happen there?

Yeah.

But the thing that is interesting and concerning to me is the Saudi Arabia, Dubai relationship.

Like they're, they used to be kind of like commonly, like, hey, we kind of have the same

goals and we, we, you know, don't like Iran, like that was kind of the, the thing.

And is that fades?

Like because Iran's presence, one way or another is like, drastically reduced.

Dubai and Saudi Arabia are going to be in a strange cold war that, you know, like the

US and Russia were like over the Middle East.

And so they're both trying to attract the same talent.

They're both trying to diversify their economies away from oil.

And so what does that look like?

I would love to go to Saudi Arabia though.

Like, I'd love to check it out.

Like that, that seems to be like, they're out of this war.

Tourism is getting it.

Dubai is all tourism, right?

And like, economics and business, that for the time is disrupted and it's kind of open

to the door.

Well, the Saudi still, at the moment, like the air space is still the best.

Qatar.

And Saudi, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the whole, the whole area.

But no one's like, there's no bombs flying there right now.

Yeah.

Saudi Arabia.

Yeah.

Well, we don't, we don't.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen.

That's another crazy thing about, you know, over there.

But yeah, I mean, like for people who, they're looking to relocate to where they action

is and where there's potential, you still think, I mean, you know, the biggest fan of Miami.

But in America, where do you think of the spots?

I don't know.

I mean, it depends what you're coming for.

I think in terms of like just business and you want to be at the financial center of

the world is still in New York.

Yeah.

Like, they're serious stuff that gets done there, you know?

If you want to, if you want to be a content creator, it is here.

Like, this is where people run around with their cameras and, and film all day.

I think in terms of like freedom, though, and like, like, again, the goal is to have

a bunch of money and be able to do whatever you want.

If you're in the US, that, the tax thing automatically, like, fucks you, you're, you're

a goal.

Just like the UK was.

Yeah.

Right.

Like, you can't get ahead in the UK when you're paying.

What were you paying when you left?

It's like 50 or 60%.

Yeah.

It was like 40 at the time.

Yeah.

And it's the same here.

Yeah.

And for me, as a US citizen, there's nowhere I can go other than Puerto Rico, but I've

been like, very interested in, in, you know, you can set up a corporation in Dubai.

Right.

It's like the 9% rate.

Then I can't touch that money personally per se.

But if I'm doing music and that's my record label, like, you know, there's, that might

make sense.

Yeah.

But I think it's important that anyone trying to build is like thinking about these

things because every, especially like US people, as empires crumble, which is what's

happening here, like one way or another, and it's not, it's like imminent and it's not,

like, UK is crumbled, right, that that's, again, not third world cycle every hundred

days.

It is.

It is.

And what happens is the government grabs more and more.

They don't, they don't like say, oh, we need to reverse this and give you more freedom.

They say more taxes, more of this.

So even if you're in Florida, like cool, you don't pay a state tax, you're, you're still

federally obligated.

And so I wish I had better answers for people.

It was like, and maybe this is fantasy.

Maybe I'm just like paranoid, but there's like, it's like El Salvador looks kind of interesting.

Cyprus, you know, over in Greece, you can, you can set up a company there.

But then I think it's a channel called Nomad Cups list is that guy makes some good videos

on suggestions as to where to, to set things or move your money.

He's built a whole brand on it, but he also makes a killing selling fear and courses.

I've been watching for a long time.

I read his book.

This is great.

And then it's like a high ticket.

Yeah.

He's like, he's, he's, everyone always eventually is fucking sells out.

Think about that.

That's like one of the perfect businesses because you're getting hyper, your client is

a hyper paranoid, wealthy person willing to pay whatever.

Yeah.

Oh, for the hundred K package.

I'll do it.

You know, like, what do you make of the oldest, uh, streaming business?

It is a load of people now in Miami, LA, other, other spots, you know, some people we

know who would just like streaming nonstop.

What do you think about world?

I try not to have like personal opinions in it.

I think like, oh, it's sad or this or that.

It's entertainment that builds huge audiences and it's, it's, it's a sign of the times

that we live in.

You know, people want to be, there's like a lot of, it's inseller word, but it's, it's

male and female where people sit at home and like, don't have a lot going on.

So they want to tune in to see the next absolutely insane thing that clavicular did or, and

then on the other side of that, I think we talked about this with, um, you know, with

tape, there's, there's this on social media, you have to completely be the thing, whatever

it is you're being.

And so like, like, the tape thing was like, this, this is this version of masculinity.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's just taken to the extremes.

Yeah.

And so the streamers have to be that, right?

So like, um, like the clavicular clav, he's, looks maxing.

And so it's to a psychotic, Patrick Bateman level thing where it's like adults in the

real world know that nothing is ever like all in or all extreme, like that's, it's never

good.

Right.

There's always like, yeah, you could take peace.

No one's going to sit here and say, you should caring about how you look as a man is

a bad thing.

No one is going to say that, you know what I mean?

But then that turns into I'm going to be smashing my face and taking meth for hollow

cheeks.

And the young generation doesn't know where to draw the line, right?

Yeah.

So that's where it's a problem.

But there's no, there's no fixing it either.

Like these are the, the systems that are in place.

These are the, these are the vehicles.

These are the pathways like like it's a, it's a system.

So you have to either opt out or play the game with a level of, like, I feel like I play

a lot of this game with a level of, like, understanding.

In some ways, it might hold me back.

Like I'm not, I've never, I've never jumped off the deep end and like, uh, this is where

I'm at.

This is, I've always kind of maintained that ability to pull back, like clav can't wake

up tomorrow and say, like, oh, this is bad because he'd lose literally every single

person that follows him.

Yeah.

They're in it for the character.

They're in it for the game.

And so it's a, that's the problem.

It's the problem.

He's 20s.

20 years old.

So when you're young, you, you kind of do that.

That thing when you're young, that is working.

But then as you mature and get older, you maybe deep down, you want to evolve and you're

like, I'm not comfortable doing this thing anymore, like, I maybe I don't even believe

this thing anymore.

But then they feel like, oh, shit, like I've just, I've built up this audience and this

brand being this specific person, but I've changed.

And then that kind of torn between wanting to rebrand themselves, but also being afraid

of doing that because they're going to lose that following that they've built in first

place.

Even with it being so extreme, which is, which is a modern thing.

Like a Jake Paul, like, one of the people I probably respect most in this entire world.

He's rebranded multiple times.

But early on, he never had to go be.

He was just a kid.

You know what I mean?

He was, it was clear.

He was like, team 10 house, rap, like, he was a kid.

And then so he was able to acceptively evolve.

You know, Patrick Bateman doesn't go from Patrick Bateman to normal functioning adult.

But that's the problem, you know, like, yeah, you, uh, you love him or hate him, but

you've got to respect like the, the story.

Jake?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it is.

At one point, probably the majority of people who knew of him did not like him.

And then he, when he got into the boxing, he started knocking people out.

It was like, oh, you know, okay, because it's, you got to respect people to step into

the ring.

It's not easy.

Everyone hoped he'd get knocked out in the beginning.

You know what I mean?

And then the profile Anthony Joshua, it's kind of funny listening to people you've been

around.

Like you've seen Anthony in person.

He's fucking huge.

The monster, bro.

Yeah.

You know what's like, like that dude, like I fight, I spar, I would not spar with Anthony

Joshua.

Yeah.

That is a, like, well, I've heard profiders talk about him hitting the bag and it's like,

you know, and Jake, Jake got in there.

Yeah.

And so it's kind of funny when people, oh, he got knocked out.

No, she got knocked out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But anyways, um, Jake is a good example, like, especially as I move into music, if someone

who's really kind of not been afraid to like, just say fuck it and go for it, he's fundamentally

disrupted boxing and he's brought fans to it.

People can say whatever they want, but he's like, hey, I have an audience.

I know attention and marketing are like these key things.

I'm going to take it very seriously.

Like, I think he's like aware, you know, he's never, he's not going to be Anthony Joshua,

but he still is taking it like super seriously all while applying his skills up.

And that's, that's how I look at music.

Like, I'm not going to be, you know, Marco Corolla, like he's, he was doing it since he

was 12 and can spin blindly 50 vinyls all the day.

You know, it's like, ungodly incredible, but I respect for that and I respect for the

space.

And I'm trying to bring that forward and just add to it, you know, you're trying to go

anywhere with the boxing.

Was that just me?

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Just keep him fit.

Well, for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You went to Ibiza for the first time.

Was it last summer?

Last summer.

How was that?

Life changing really.

Yeah.

It was.

And that was when I was in a combination of so many ways, that was like one of my social

media was going like this.

I was like, I had committed to the music.

And then I'm at Pasha behind the booth and, you know, the, I hate Connor and Planish.

Viver, his name is Viver.

Viver is my song.

I'm just like, whoa.

Yeah.

I didn't know she was going to like, it's, that was like one of those moments where it's

like, okay, this is kind of the point of life.

I'll never forget this no matter what, you know what I mean?

Like the, I want to keep filling life up with these types of, of chapters.

And it brought me into this deeper world with the music where I hate when people confuse

it with just like straight partying.

Yeah.

Like, I've been, I've been sober since like Art Bows, I'll probably be sober most of this

year.

I'll probably be sober in Ibiza.

All summer.

And there's a.

That's that's a big call.

Yeah.

I'm not going to make that statement.

No, no, it gets crazy, right?

It's, it's crazy.

But that's more to prove to myself that like, there's more to this, to me, like there

will be future partying opportunities.

But with what, you said all the things I'm doing, I can't have those days where I don't

want to get out of it.

Yeah.

That's what ties back to it.

Yeah, because especially when everything's going well, like you're making money, you

know, you've got the youth, you've got the freedom and you, you can get a little bit lost

in the source.

Yeah.

Get out of control.

It's super easy to get lost in the source.

Yeah.

And, and it's amplified when you're trying to do a lot of incredible things like that, that

next day or next two days, if you party right, you just can't get out of bed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Though those, those add up.

And so I'm making a commitment to myself where I had so much fun last year, you know,

I'm at like, you did a, like South of France as well.

Yeah, it's standard.

I've done all of the, the billionaire things, you know, I've done St. Bart's New Year's

and I've been.

Yeah.

From like a partying perspective, like this is great.

Yeah.

I want to build a music brand that stands the test of time and that's going to take like

a lot of effort, right?

And so, yeah, he's already, I have a house for June, I'll probably renew it for July.

June is probably the best time to go.

It's my favorite.

I think it's alright.

It's not because it's not.

It's a good crowd of people.

It's before July, August, you get like a lot of the touristy, touristy people who were

just kind of there for the sake of being there.

Yeah.

But in June, you have, I would say like the dedicated people and the, the people who live

on the island, it's like, it's, it's, it's a very noticeable difference of people when

there's a transition from like June to July and also it's not as hot.

Yeah.

Well, I'm probably going to be there as well.

June.

I'll be there.

I always go there a couple of times per year.

Oh, you're coming on my YouTube for, you know, you're not pissing me off though.

I was in Cape Town, I mean, my, my friends, I got a couple of friends, they, they genuinely

have a, for house music and I do as well.

So when I, I'm listening to it, I also like to go to the places to listen to it live

and watch the DJs do their thing.

And I don't need to be fucked up to enjoy it.

Exactly.

That obviously there's going to be people around who are fucked up who are enjoying it.

Yeah.

But when I was watching Black Coffee, like I was pretty much sober.

I had one or two drinks.

Yeah.

And it's damn spiritual experience.

Yes.

Like you're going through a journey.

Exactly.

But then people see me go into a party and they're like, oh, you're 35 years old, nearly

40.

Like why are you still going to parties?

I'm like, what was I'm all out to enjoy the music that I like to listen to?

Yeah.

You don't get that from the people who go to rock concerts.

Like 40, 50 year olds going to a rock concert.

And that's fine.

Well, if I go to a house event, then automatically, like, I'm partying and I'm too old for

shit.

No, but we're platforms.

I mean, you wouldn't believe how much, like, I get an ungodly amount of that, the more

I'm, more I'm doing this, which is like, again, a Marco Crow is almost 50, like the,

the, the Black Coffee is 50, like, yeah, like you can, you know, you can, you know,

it, so you just have to ignore that because you got to remember, I get a lot of those.

And the first people even call us to say 40, by the way, 50 by the way, the Rose on

TikTok.

What the sad road?

Oh, yeah.

Of course.

Of course.

Like, like, relentlessly for like a month, they like bother me.

Oh my God.

It's fun.

Yeah.

Fast.

I can do it all by myself.

Doing the longevity stuff.

And then you just remember that those are, those are people that you wouldn't have traded

lives with at that age.

Yeah.

And in my circumstances, they want your life in some way, shape or form.

And like, it just is where it is.

You have to keep standing up to being who you are.

And then that's the way I think it's important.

I do a lot of this sober to say to me, this isn't partying.

This is some of these nights, sober and not sober, like, whatever, have taught me more

about myself, like as a person and like, helped me uncover more in relationships and

meaning and like, so much to do the music.

Yeah.

Like, this shit really is magic.

Yeah.

I see a lot of people who've been very successful and they've learned money, you know, if someone

been on the podcast, I'm like, man, like, fair play respects everything you've done,

but you need to just go out a bit more.

You need to go live a little.

Yeah.

Because you, you know, like, I don't think in terms of the business world, like, you've

done very well and you conquered it, but everything else outside of that, like, you

miss out on quite a lot.

And how empty is that?

You know what I mean?

Like, like, I identified that early on, like, that was one of the, uh, and I tried

out to try to be a way less like negative around anything, but like, I think a good contrast

has always been the, uh, the hermosy life, right?

Yeah.

Like, but maybe he does like that.

Maybe that isn't act.

But me, I wouldn't want a life where I'm, if he likes it, like, bomb with it.

Yeah.

This was the thing.

I, I didn't get it until he spoke about how much he genuinely enjoys it.

He likes it.

And then I'm like, okay, we'll ask.

Yeah, then you can't.

He likes it.

He's telling me, uh, you know, why do you, you're always going to the gym, like, that's

boring.

Yeah.

I was the gym.

I'm like, no, that's my highlight.

I enjoy it.

Yeah.

So I like, I get where he's coming from from that point of view, but, you know, sometimes

when you have an experience, something you, you don't know what you miss out on, like,

imagine you take him on, like, uh, if we got him, like, come on, you come into your

over this.

It's easy to him.

Yeah.

Easy to get a hate it.

Or be like, oh, fuck.

I've missed it out on this.

I might have to give him a thing or two in there and then he'd love it.

He'd been disco water.

What do you guys call it?

The Gary's.

Gary's in the UK.

That's it.

There's a whole list of different things.

You give it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But he said, um, yeah, I'd like, I want to continue living that life, but I've noticed

now a lot of the adventures, which I go on or trips that I go on, um, there isn't

any partying at all.

It's just doing cool things, different experiences.

Yeah.

Sometimes there is a little event that I might go to, but I mean, I'm not doing it like

I used to do it in my 20s.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, physically, I can't do it.

I'll be in your calculator, right?

Like something has to be worth it and something has to be like, okay, this is going to be,

I said, that night at Pasha where she played my song, like, you know, I was up till eight

in the morning.

You know, I just didn't use it.

They don't end till six.

Yeah.

I wouldn't trade that.

Regardless, like, the payoff is just like, that's the book of life.

That's what we're trying to, and I'd worked for that moment.

You know what I mean?

We've been working on music.

We've been, you know, following instruction, like, trying to learn in this game, and it's

like, okay, that's a milestone.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

And so, you know, here to more of those, and then if you zoom out further, I think we're

the world's at and like, bro, talking is done.

You can't convince anyone of anything nowadays, like from any perspective, like from a self-improvement,

like, whatever, like, I don't know if you see this, but like words are breaking down.

Like people are ending up in these, like, silos and these boxes, and I think music's

one of the only things that can unite and, like, unify and, and, like, help people through

tough times.

Yeah.

I really do.

Like, music is saved my life, like, personally, like so many, so many times, like, if I didn't

get a certain song at a certain point, like, I don't think I'd be where I'm at, and I

want to continue to bring more of that.

Like, I can only do so many of the, you know, the talking head reels where it's like,

I can give you great advice.

Nothing's changing.

Yeah.

You know, it was, I don't know where I heard this from, there's a few people who had said

that they'd stop listening to music, either in the car or in the gym because it was like

a drug, and it was just giving them this release of dopamine.

And I was like, oh, I kind of understand that, but I like it.

It makes me feel good.

And I know it's like a lot of the time when I'm just, if I'm by myself, just walking

around, like, I'm just constantly listening to music, because it makes me feel good.

But then does that mean that I'm kind of addicted to this drug, which is music?

I think that's the point.

It is that powerful.

And then it's how do you use it?

Because on the flip side of that, like, what if you are feeling your brain with, like,

NBA young boy, and it is that powerful, and it can put you in incredibly negative silos,

or it can help break you through, you know, some plateau you were dealing with.

And I think, I mean, like, you play a certain song at a gym when you want a PR, right?

Yeah.

That's directly powerful.

I just want to bring more awareness to the, like, to the reality of that, because people

don't think about it like that.

No one thinks about it like a drug, you know what I mean?

And it is.

It's it's actual, like, because I was some people who, they say to me, like, oh, I'm just

not motivated to go to gym.

I'm like, let's just put together a little playlist to listen to one of my playlists.

And it'll actually get you out of this music, and I'm like, I need to go train.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

What?

Why does a baby understand tone before they understand words?

You know what I mean?

Like, that is our biological wiring.

Like, we fully appreciate sound and vibration and like, and that's why some of these black

coffee.

There's a reason he is so world-renowned.

He doesn't have a viral song on a TikTok, no one goes like, oh, this is, but you go to

a black coffee setting and the right thing, you're like, this is actual.

Yeah.

I've been trying to figure this out.

Like, I think he intentionally knows how to take people on a journey.

He does.

That's the best DJ's do.

There's a science to the order of the songs that he plays.

And he reads the crowd and then he brings them up, but then he like, he like brings them

down again.

My brother pulls them back.

That is the game.

And that's what Blonders taught me.

Like, she's a very good DJ, like at the same level where a three-hour thing is going

to be an experience.

Yeah.

And she doesn't want to play in a warehouse.

She wants to play sunset at Tulum where you're getting the environment and you're getting

the progression.

And that, that is something at Cape Town recently, didn't she?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's where she likes to play.

Yeah.

But they are, they're full of experience.

They're called abracadabra.

That's where I really like, I was born away.

They're not big.

They're like, you know, 3,000 people I played at the 1 in LA.

Every little detail out there that bitch, like, of course, she's going to go up there

and play the songs and do the, you know, take you through that journey.

But the lighting, like, all the little —

Yeah, because I think I've noticed this with, like, Black coffee for example, he has this

residency at high.

High is a big club, but it's not a huge club.

We compare it to university's, you know, when there's big.

He could easily fill out universe, but there's a strategic reason as to why he's probably

said no to that because the experience of listening to his music in a big space like

that would be very different to the more intimate space of a million percent.

And this is what I wrestle with because I'm this like inf Miami influencer.

So I'm expected to go like Fisher's a good example.

Fisher's a good DJ.

Fisher goes and plays universe and puts on a show on.

He puts a show on.

Exactly.

And he's playing hype music and people are fired up and they're paying their $100 drinks.

That's not what drew me to this world, but people expect me to push in that direction.

So I've wrestled with that.

Do you know if you ever see like gaming Lazarus?

Yeah, yeah.

He's a little hot.

He's cast and voodoo on people, but it might be a little too dark, you know?

But that's more like, that's what interests me, not the, I'm losing it, you know, like,

so so there's so many levels to this.

So if you're, if you're playing and you have like your ideal scenario of where you'd

be playing in the size of the audience, what would it be at this stage?

In a perfect world and like, boundaries is a good example.

You want to scale an abracadabra like that, you know, which these intimate shows she

has.

If you could do that with 100,000 people and still maintain the spiritual experience

or whatever you want to call it, that's ideal.

I'm building my music brand like same, same thing.

So like my first show being Puerto Rico, it'll be a thousand people, but all the details

are going to be important, you know?

And so I think it's more about maintaining the quality of the product than it is like,

you know, well, and then you just kind of, there's different opportunities, like, you

just said universe first, hi, posh, and you just have to be really selective on what you

want to be known for.

All right, guys, quick pause here.

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Let's track on with the episode.

You think it's easier for you at this point in your life because you've made decent amount

of money so you kind of have more freedom to try new things and have access to, I don't

know, certain pieces of equipment versus a producer or DJ who's like broke.

I thought so but the money component has not helped as much as I've thought.

I think maybe as I get into throwing my own parties that cost money to do, maybe.

But even that, like when we're talking a thousand person thing like the cost of production

is not insane.

It's going to come down to the details in the know-how.

Money has not helped as much as I, like originally getting in like, okay, that's a clear advantage

right?

And at the end of the day, you still, there's a huge learning curve.

And I think that's what's excited me quite a bit.

I would probably think, I would imagine the thing that's going to help the most is just

if you release a banger.

You release a banger, all the top DJs are playing your tune and then, or maybe on TikTok

as well or whatever, like everybody's use, like that's one of the quickest ways to go

viral.

You think a shadow change the game overnight without a doubt and that's what I'm hopeful

to do.

But at the same time, still like, you put out a song and it goes number one and makes you

money.

But it's like, you know, no broke boys, like disco, disco lines are a good example like

his life changed overnight with that song.

It's still, you have to wrestle with that.

Like, I'm not consciously trying to make a no broke boys.

I'm trying to make a, like, do you know a bonus song that's gone viral and charted?

Do you know that coffee one that's not like, you don't want to talk and see it, right?

So I'm very much caught in between like what matters to me and then what's commercially

viable.

Yeah.

And I always find it so fascinating how there's either like a particular meme that goes

viral or a song that goes viral, like what was the origins of that, like where does that

come from?

Like, who was the first person to use it and then where does it go after that and how does

it just spiral out of control?

Well, if you can ask that question, you're probably a billionaire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, like if I say, if I say the nervous at the door because our fits were too hard,

like, have you, does that resonate to you?

No.

Not at all.

That's like a super viral TJ one.

Okay.

He's doing an interview or no, no, no.

How about if I say, what if I start talking about the church of AI and, wait, you know

that one?

You put, you put Buddha, Jesus, this is on your podcast into into the AI and then people

when you worshiping the church of AI brother, you haven't heard that one.

Someone run his old podcast.

I know, you know, the Mel Marlin.

It was like super viral.

Like that was a meme.

Yeah.

And sometimes I think it's just moments that that are so, so outrageous that like they stick.

Yeah.

Um, like musically kind of same thing.

That's like, you have, you have to like meet culture where it's at with a moment.

That's why you know that song, no broke boys, no, no, like how many women are out there,

like on this independent boss girl shit and he hit that with the, it was like perfect

timing.

Yeah.

And a lot of the time it's luck.

But to zoom out on that, it's then it's like, how do you up your chances of luck?

Swings it back.

Yeah.

If you had to put out a, like I've had, I've had funny ones, you're like the, you should

be all in on aura.

Like that was a mini meme, you know?

Like, like, that was a thing, um, there's no magic behind it.

It was just like, I can yapping.

Yeah.

How many more videos did I do?

They never saw a lot of that, right?

The Johnny Walker one was sort of my favorite.

Of course.

Oh, of course.

What gets me ever?

Of course.

Do you know the origin?

Do you know the origin of that?

The cookie king?

Like, like, actually, why that became a, a meme?

Well, I know the, the scenario that was in it was just obviously doing one of his meetups

and he was trying to help him out for that.

How did, came viral like a year and a half later.

Yeah, but yeah.

I don't know how about this kid cookie king and he's the same one for every reason.

He had a heart on for that creator for like a year and he was just going through capturing

without context these, these insane quotes and like, like, you run the actual cookie king

one.

It's funny as fuck.

He's this kind of like chubby kid who like has all the looks, maxing features, a really

good creator.

And he's like, you know, me, Tristan, warm together, just us, Johnny Walker, fucking

Johnny Walker, Scottie by myself.

And then boom, like he's the one that set it off.

His, his parody got several million views and then everyone ran with it.

Yeah.

Like, like, that's kind of how those things work.

But it was like two years after the actual, actual vlog.

He just went back and he, because then the other one, it was on your podcast.

He's like, brother, brother, wait, you're going to have the Buddha, Jesus Christ, and you're

going to put them all into one AI and everyone will be worshiping the church of AI and you're

just sitting there like, wow.

And like again, in the conversation, it's like, it makes sense.

So he's saying, but from a meme perspective, you just take that out of the car.

Your reaction to my favorite part too, you're just, you're, shit, exactly what I'm talking

about.

Well, closure, bro, I'm tripping.

He's part of like most of the epic memes on the fucking internet.

What color should we got?

I just forgot.

That's you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That one was sick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He filmed it as well.

Epic is fuck.

You know, but it's like, he didn't sit there and think that.

Yeah.

That's just hilarious person.

That still baffles me today.

I'm like, did he, did he always have that answer pre-prepared or is that just take coming

out with you?

It's just right off the dome.

You know, like, it's, it's like, okay, hey, there's what colors you're going to get.

And I'm like, yeah, it's just good.

It's fucking sick.

So you know, when you, you started this new format of yours where you sit down and

you, you say something, you have like the cool visuals, when did that come from?

Because I don't think I hadn't really seen that before until you started doing it.

I had seen a similar style that wasn't any creator.

So that's where like the, I, before that style hit, I was probably testing like 20 or 30

different styles through the context of I have to put out a lot of content.

I'd seen what made TJ grow, I'd seen what made Brez grow.

It's all scale.

It got away from like one really good vlog, like you, you had that platform, so you could

do that.

If I put all this effort, I have like my California vlogs on my favorite examples.

It's dope.

Like, cinematically, it's, it's, it's an awesome piece of content.

It got like 15 K views.

Yeah.

And I'm like, wow, that just took fucking, yeah, you know what I, yeah, man, that sucks.

And so it's like, okay, shortforms where it's at, the people winning on shortform are putting

out a fuck them a content.

I don't love the sitting talking to the camera thing.

Like it just, it hadn't worked for me to the same extent.

Yeah.

So I thought through how can I batch a lot of content and match it with a good style.

And that, that's where it came from.

That was one of those ones.

The first one was like on gratitude.

Like I just wanted to diversify my subject matter and it got like a million views.

And I was like, okay, this style works.

I can do a lot of these.

Let's double triple quadruple down and then it just kind of caught fire.

So how would you do it then?

Are you pre-writing these things and then you have a time each week where you just sit

down exactly and you do it and then obviously you'll film different locations, different

hours.

Exactly.

And it would be like on the go with me, like my camera, you know, wherever I'm at.

Yeah.

Teleprompter or?

Yeah.

Yeah, I was going to say fully teleprompter.

Like I'm not, like the process itself, like I spent my mornings writing, I use a lot

of AI.

Like it, but it's my ideas, like it's my stuff brought together at the peak of that.

It's not really working anymore.

I'm like, I'm reinventing myself now.

But at the peak of that, I was shooting like a hundred videos a week, like genuinely.

Most of them don't make it to my IG.

Like they're going out on these clipper pages, they're going out on these like, we're shooting

like a hundred of those.

And then maybe ten of them make it to IG.

But that was my, that was the IG was like the best of the best.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I don't guess you can test it on the other.

You test on TikTok.

Pages to see which ones.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And that's, everyone who's had like a huge run over the last year and it's already

kind of changing now.

Like TJ is the same thing.

He's shooting 50 fucking TikToks a day, like from brain rot to educational, but like the

funny thing was when I became aware of him, it was the brain rot stuff of him just being

for sure.

That's why I feel fun.

Yeah.

And I was like, who's he and why he's got so much money like, I don't know what he does.

And then you see, okay, he's a trader and he teaches people how to trade.

And then you see those people in the comments have just been like, this is my, this is my

teacher, by the way, this is my, my coach, by the way, he understands social media better

than most people.

Yeah.

Because he created the phenomenon of being a streamer without having to stream.

Because all the streamer audiences want is to be in your life every second of every

day.

Well, if you're putting out 50 TikToks, like, hey, I hear my own Puerto Rico.

Now I'm walking.

I'm chewing my gum weird while I'm walking and making some like gay face at you, but

you're still with me.

Yeah.

And then the hack of that is you shoot 50 videos.

Most of them go nowhere.

Like, you look at a TikTok, a lot of them don't have views.

The ones that have views make it to IG.

And then IG thinks you're only putting out winning content nonstop and you live on the

for you page.

That was my growth.

That was his.

So that's, like, that is the bringing awareness to who you are, like getting strangers

attention.

And then they get curious and they're like, okay, well, now I know who's person is.

What does it that they do?

They look into what they do.

And then if you want to know about trading, then you'd sign up to whatever he's offering.

Yeah.

But even yes.

But then from an algorithm perspective, putting winners only on IG is like the sauce, like

two talks like wasteland.

So you do a vlog.

The hard part is creating the system where you can take your vlog or this and get a hundred

good pieces of content to test, knowing that most because if you don't have a good system

if you're just throwing shit up there, if you're using like an AI, people are like,

oh, use this AI to take podcast clips, all that shit sucks.

I had to, like, sit down and consciously think of like, how are we getting a hundred

good tests in a week?

Yeah.

Right?

Like, what is that system?

How this whole, you know, Dropbox built out?

All these videos are going.

And then from there, that's where you know you're getting enough swings at bat.

And then you just need someone to scope all of that and then put the winners on IG.

TJ is doing it right now.

He's streaming every single day, right?

Yeah.

He's putting the best clipped moments from those streams and that's it.

It's the same system.

Yeah.

And that's everyone should be doing it.

It's just like, it's, it's really not easy to do.

It's like very difficult, honestly.

Well, there's like a, there was a new trend where it kind of moved away from the higher,

not necessarily higher quality, but the more higher production where you kind of sat down

doing the fake podcast thing.

Yep.

And then it moved to the more casual talking to the phone, yep.

And now I think it's going all the way back to super high quality.

Yeah.

I mean, because I, I enjoy doing that the most like, for example, going somewhere doing

a vlog and making it a beautiful vlog, I think that's where the art is.

It's going back there.

There's good news.

Because music where I was no, no different, John Summon is like a good example of all this.

He was like a master of the little shitty TikToks, like he'd like put his phone down and be

like, you know, and that was getting a millions of views.

And now you look at all this stuff, it's shifting back to like high, high value production

quality.

Yeah.

So it's a good time for people that care about that stuff.

Yeah.

That's good.

Yeah.

And I guess for, for creators or anyone looking to grow or build personal brand, you've always

got to be keeping an eye on what is, what's trending and what's changing.

Yeah.

It's still see people doing stuff they, it may have worked for them in the past and it

got them the views and trying to do it all the way off to zero.

So that's why I'm not afraid to say like, hey, I had a sick run, I opened up like a million

followers in the last year and it's hidden, the returns aren't there, so we're experimenting

with all sorts of new stuff.

Yeah.

And I think that's the fitness you see at hardcore.

I see people from five years ago posting the same shit and they have two million followers

and again, 15k views.

Yeah.

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

But it's important to reinvent and recreate.

Yeah.

I was lucky when I came into the game 10 years ago doing the educational stuff because

I don't think there was as many people doing it and I found a little format that worked

well.

And then it just became way too high production and I was like, well, it was either the

two high production and a combination of getting too hardcore onto the sciencey stuff

and I was like, this doesn't interest me.

And then during that period of time I was like, I'm going to move away from the fitness

a little bit because I'm bored of it and I know in order to compete at the top of the

game, I'm going to have to do this, I'm going to have to do that and I didn't want

to do it.

That's when I was like, oh, I want to do more of the, do more lifestyle stuff, more travel

stuff, more vlogs.

Yeah.

And you saw that?

Well, everybody hated it at first.

Yeah.

Whenever you do the transition, everyone was like, you don't do that.

Get back to doing what you normally do and you just have to kind of persevere.

And like, luckily, I would do those videos and there would always be a little bit of

the incorporation of the fitness on me training and like, what I eat.

And that kind of kept people happy with, you know, people up there for the fitness side

of stuff.

But now I've actually, this is a couple of months ago.

I just weren't fucking out.

I'm going to start a fitness channel again and just only put like the fitness stuff out

there.

It's probably a good time for people, they appreciate that, like the views are pretty

solid.

Yeah.

I think the challenge too with a lot of this stuff is in the monetization component.

I know you probably think about this a lot.

I think about it a lot.

And this is why so many people end up back selling a course, which a lot of times like

isn't the right answer.

But you look at a, I don't know if you got them on your podcast.

That's the Indian kid, the self-improvement.

Super big.

Dr.K.

No, no, he caught all sorts of, like Greg Ducat just smoked him a bit ago again.

You know what I'm talking about?

He's a fitness guy.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Like that was a guy that he was making this content with a good production value and

he never figured out how to monetize it.

And then he went all in on like a shit course.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It was kind of like all the wrong things to do.

Yeah.

Like he went very hardcore into the business side of things of making money and then his

audience didn't appreciate it.

Cause yeah, cause it was just wasn't even kind of real.

Yeah.

It was like, like those are the things that I think are missed.

And I think about a lot, like music is a non monetization thing from here right now.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I spend money to do it, right?

To build.

And so what's, what's that eventually look like?

Because you have to, everyone watching, like we're supposed to create, we're supposed

to put art out in the world, but the system exists in and we can't do it for free.

So we have to figure out how to, forever, you have to figure out how to monetize it.

Yeah.

So I'd say that's probably been the biggest advantage of having money.

It hasn't opened doors for me per se, but it's taken a level of pressure off.

I'm not like, man, I need a number one hit or, you know, I'm going back to flipping burgers,

right?

It's a, it's a lot of a little bit of room to, to breathe, but still at the end of that

road, there needs to be a path to monetization if I want to keep doing it forever.

And that's why I landed on like, okay, well, let me go all in on these parties, these

events.

And so maybe I won't have the number one record, but maybe in 10 years, I could have a

circle local, you know, where it's like, this is my brand and this is, this is strong.

So that's how I'm thinking about it, but the monetization behind the art is a timeless

question in a capitalist system.

Yeah, because I had a friend, when he was living in Ibiza, I felt kind of bad because

I introduced him to Ibiza and then he just kind of moved there and didn't leave for

a couple of years.

I mean, yeah, very dangerous.

And he just loved the party and I, and he was kind of trying to figure out ways to monetize

it.

I was like, bro, why are you fucking throwing your own events?

Like you love the party, you really get it networking and talking to people, like just,

just throw events.

Like I couldn't think of anything that you're more suited to than throwing your own event

and getting people together and like, partying would be getting paid to party.

Yeah.

We never went through with it, but maybe it was a good thing because maybe we're partying

even more.

Well, no, but he never went through with it because he loved a party too much.

That's why I tell you, like, I know I need to be sober for this phase.

What goes into like a good party behind the scenes?

Like you're expiring like the DJ journey on like the music side alone.

But then I'm talking about blonde, she's thinking about the lines to the restroom.

She's thinking like like those type of details, like the, you know, our girls going to be

comfortable in this section, like all these little things that you know a good party

when you're there.

But a thing which I've noticed with some of these events, certain brands, although the

music is great, it's just an absolute sausage first.

It just brings million fucking the UK guys in particular.

Yeah.

It's a running joke.

You look at like a Max Dean show.

It's 90% rose with their shirts off.

Yeah.

I don't want to be there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Black coffee.

Yeah.

Black coffee brings all the girls out.

Yeah.

But it's, and then it's weird.

It's like, but how, how has he done that?

Like, how does just the name and the brand bring more women versus more men?

Those are the things I'm trying to answer in real time.

Like, because I was thinking this, if I was to open a gym, right, like I've done it before

a long time ago, thought about potentially doing it again.

But then I thought, if I open a gym, wherever the location might be, I advertise it,

might test an open gym blah, blah, blah.

I don't want it to be full of like 80% guys.

So I have a big male audience, particularly on YouTube.

And then if I advertise, I'll open a gym, and then it's full of guys, I'll be like, fuck

say.

If it's full of English guys, just English guys, I'll be like, this is not what I wanted.

Like I want like good quality people, they're good, because that's what makes, I've tried

to figure out why do I like some gyms more than other gyms.

And a lot of it is down to the, there's just the environment and the vibe and the energy.

Yeah.

And obviously, like, if pretty beautiful curvy girls go to the gym, I'm probably going

to enjoy my workout more.

Yeah.

So that's like to look.

And then economically, would you pay more to be there?

Absolutely.

And so these are the things I'm wrestling, like my audience is a large email, like 75%

mail.

And so if I just post, like, that's what's going to come out.

So I'm needing to think about these things.

I'm needing to draw lines in the sand.

Like a good example, you've seen TJ and Carson are doing their own, their clothing thing,

right?

This is, it was kill tag.

Kill tag.

Yeah.

And with that, they're trying to do these parties.

And these parties are late night and warehouses where none of those details that would make

a girl feel comfortable, like, they won't go.

Yeah.

And so it's the same thing.

And they're bringing the artists that bring out the bros.

And so you have all these bros in a hot, sweaty warehouse, like, I can't be near that.

Yeah.

Right.

So I have to, like, I have to go over here.

I have to kind of, it's like you need a separate team to ensure that there's going to

be girls there.

For sure.

Yeah.

Like actually, and that's like, that's a common thing in this world.

Like a lot of people put a lot of effort, because if you boil down, just like economics

and life, we talked about it earlier, half of the thing is, like, guys desire to fucking

reproduce and be around pretty girls.

Like, I mean, period, like that, that is what it, what it breaks down to.

So as an artist, like who are you making music for?

You make a music for, for the guy, like, John Summon got clowned for making music for

the girls and gays.

Uh-huh.

Jokes on everyone else.

Now he has parties with 80% girls and the guys that buy the tables will pay quite literally

anything to be there.

Yeah.

But again, it's conscious decisions.

If John changed his sound and went to, to, to appease those people talking shit, he'd

never be where he's at.

Yeah.

And so you have to endure a lot of that, like, hate, you know, knowing that it's going

to pay off, but you're going to burn some, like, it's hard for me to say, yeah, my

guys, you're doing this, this bankroll thing.

I can't, I don't, I want to be nowhere near it.

I don't want to be associated.

And actually, we're going to have to talk about the name because I'm, you know, I'm

up the bank.

It's like a sticky situation, but that's a practical real life example of like, well,

because you were part of the party.

Yeah.

If they, I mean, either way, like, I'm, yeah, my name has very much been used to build

that, that thing as less a TJ thing, like he's out streaming, doing his, he kind of

wants nothing to do with the music, like he just wants to be a, you know, mainstream

streamer.

Yeah.

But they have this brand and I've been tied into it.

So there'll be some conversations to be had as long as I, so now with obviously doing

the music thing, are you, you still in the game of business, building brands, building

businesses or all, yeah, you've got like a nice little thing running, which kind of

funds everything.

I've got some nice, yeah, I was like I said, I was fortunate enough to make a nice chunk

of money.

I think, and I have some, I have like one investment in a brand that should roll into like an energy

drink.

And then it'll be parallel because there's this intersection of influence, cloud, everyone

to call it, and then actual economics and business.

And like Jake Paul is a good, Connor McGregor, we'll talk him, UFC fighters don't make any

fucking money.

Yeah.

He never made money.

He's a billionaire because he said, I'm the most poppin thing in the world.

I'm not going to get paid for it.

Dana White was never going to make that make sense for him, but he used that influence

and that awareness and that platform to go all in on whiskey and make a multi billion

dollar thing.

So the brand piece is always the real economic vehicle.

Like these parties are based off sponsors, you know, like half of them, like you need

sponsors, you want to energy drink sponsor, like, you know, I was in Aspen a couple of

weeks ago, like I'm at the, you know, ghost guys table, like ghost is sponsoring all of

this stuff.

So there's an intersection of whatever it is I'm doing that's never going to pay that

well, like in terms of like cash, and then actual business and economics, like Peggy

who's putting her name on stuff, she's doing tequila deals, like that's what you should

do.

Like collaborations with the big fashion brand, exactly, that's who I admire, who's done

that skepta.

Yeah.

Like he went from just being a grime MC to see me, I got to go a little more Fred again.

I got to go a little more.

Yeah.

A hundred percent animal.

Yeah.

Like people like that.

I admire because it's so hard to get into those industries and to be collaborating with

the breath like these top of the top brands, it's super hard and image is like wildly

important.

And then so you zoom all the way back, and then it starts to make sense why everything

so hyper political, like we might think, hey, it doesn't matter at all if I want to go

play it, Pasha or whatever.

But then you start going up the, up the total pool and it's like, oh, okay, we're all competing

for the same burberry contract, you know, we're, or, or, but by my view, I take a step

back and I think, like before he crashed out his entire life, nobody understood it better

than Kanye.

Yeah.

He said, I didn't need any of these brands at the top of all this, like my art spoke

for itself.

I am so influential.

This is, this is easy.

And overnight he created a multi billion dollar thing, but it's hard.

It's really hard to do it all while understanding the business.

That's why you have these conglomerates that are like, wow, you know, like Louis Vuitton

probably pays future four or five million bucks a year, which sounds like a lot.

But Louis Vuitton is, yeah, it's nothing to them.

It's literally nothing to them.

And so I'm much more, as I continue to build this, I don't come full circle.

I'm very interested in the brand stuff.

But in a very calculated, like intentional way, because for one, the e-commerce landscape

right now is rapidly changing with like AI, like rapidly, like the barrier to entry and

marketing, like it's just, it's being grossly disrupted.

It's going to create even more, like most things are going to be worthless.

Like on the brand side, if you're not building something that's eventually going to be acquired,

it's not a business you want to be in.

You don't want to deal with inventory.

You don't want to deal with Amazon, TikTok, Shopify, payment processors, like it, it makes

no sense.

You want to build to exit.

Yeah, you got, you got, you need something that has that real potential, like ghost,

you know, like what a beautiful company.

They've gone all the way to energy drinks is multi billions.

But those are the opportunities.

Yeah.

Someone I spoke to the last time I was Hudson, who has the comfort, hoodie.

Yeah, killing it, killing it, it's crazy, killing it.

So those are the types of things that, that's enterprise that, you know, maybe, like that's

a different market he's hitting, right?

From like what I'm interested in, but that's the type of thing I'd want to be, the nicotine

that I just put out, like I've been going back and forth with them is like, okay, it's

a better for you nicotine option.

It's like a, like you see Zins, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I have no investment.

These guys are like anything yet and they're dealing with regulation, but you, you, you

look at it and it's like over the fuck I did with it aesthetically though.

You're like, this is like a, this could sit in Paris or this could sit in where like a

Zin can't.

So it's like, okay.

Maybe this is something.

Yeah.

The problem with a Zin is when you put in your mouth, at least when I put it in my mouth,

it's like quite obvious that it's like in my mouth, like I'll go pause, pause, pause.

No, pause.

In the US, we say pause when someone says something a little suspect, okay, and put it in

your mouth.

My bad.

I know I put it in my mouth.

There it is, yeah.

But like that doesn't look like a, like a nicotine, like a box of matches.

Yeah.

So what this is, what is this?

It's a Zin, basically, like that, that is what it, but it's like a cleaner, better for

you one.

It's smaller as well.

It's more.

Yeah, it's smaller, definitely.

Like a little, it's like an oat patch.

It doesn't hit us hard.

It's still like, you know, those are the types of things where you, I'm interested in

the brand thing.

It could be a multi-billion dollar.

It smells fresh.

Thing.

And like I said, no, I don't know if I'll do a deal with these guys, but this is the type

of stuff I'm interested in, like it could be a multi-billion dollar.

Yeah.

I mean, I feel like it's more popular than it is ever being.

Oh, yeah.

Nicotine?

Yeah.

Going out like a motherfucker.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Isn't that the other ones, but you can like, you can break off a piece and you put it in

your mouth.

Yeah, that's another one.

Yeah.

I'm not there.

There's like the Nicknack Mint, they're like, it's like an icebreaker type of thing,

but same deal.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, nice.

And then I know, obviously, it's been two years, the relationship situation has changed

as well.

Yeah.

How was that?

I was wondering if you asked about that.

Yeah.

Well, because the last podcast, when we spoke about it, obviously we had a discussion.

You had a particular point of view of living a certain way of life, um, you know, your thoughts

on open relationships.

I think quite a lot of people were like, some agreed.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

And, um, man, all those people on the comments were right, you know, it was headed for

the horse.

All those people on the comments were right.

And boy, do I have some stories for you?

Yeah.

Probably not too much I can share or have talked about, but I don't think my viewpoint

has changed like too much, honestly.

One thing I realized that this could probably be taken out of context, uh, a woman with

like everything provided for them and like everything taken care of is not enough.

If you, if you as the man lose sexual interest in that person, like that, that is what we'll

set them over an edge, um, now I'm going to quote future.

My baby mom want to take me to court because I won't fuck her no more.

I'm going to say, I'm going to just going to be clipped and put in the courtroom.

It's true though.

It is true.

If you neglect them sexually, then they're not going to be happy at the end of it for

elsewhere.

That's the relationship is it is true.

And I'm not really afraid to like, like kind of look down the face because yeah, I don't

think many of my, the modern world is fucked with social media and with like everything.

I don't think we exist in a really good place for relationships.

I think a lot of my content is tried to like push that forward on like what it means

to be healthily masculine and what it means to be, um, divinely feminine.

Yeah.

And you've had a lot of like female guests on that talk those things and all that stuff's

true.

A guy has to be a certain way and a woman has to be a certain way and they have to like

have their own lives and then you can come together and be absolutely perfect.

Nobody has that shit figured out and how it is and no one's really willing to put the

work in on themselves.

Yeah.

Well, in terms of, well, from what I've seen, this seems to be a lot of women, not necessarily

from all corners of life, but a lot of them, they immediately just think they deserve

everything without doing anything like they, like they haven't earned it.

It's correct.

And then the guys almost feel like they can do whatever they want and get away with it.

And that just, it doesn't work.

Yeah.

But it doesn't work.

And that is like largely part of the problem and it leaves like a, some things have to

change eventually, but it'll be like a societal crumbling type of thing because it's an important

component of life.

Like everyone wants love, everyone wants these things.

Bro, the stuff I actually like came to realize about my marriage and this is all while trying

to be like super respectful of, you know, I have kids and, but, but, but seeing like the

actual system and how, how dark and kind of how, because I like deeply fucking care about

my kids.

And so again, that's why I'm trying to be, I need to be cautious of everything I say,

but my life was always set up in a way where like I built it, like I made my, my money

before and all this stuff.

And one day, if a woman in the West decides to, to weaponize your children against

you, you're automatically like gun to your head needing to defend it legally.

Yeah.

And it's, it's a really uncomfortable, like, like not awesome situation that again, like

I don't really have the answers for or whatever, but yeah, I will say like part of my mission

is I continue to put out content and how to educate like I know how guys are supposed

to be.

And I know, um, you know, like all the pitfalls and hurdles, it's unfortunate because

as I, as I talk about relationships and how someone should build themselves very rarely

do I think guys will be met where they're at as a person on the other side of that from

like a, like a feminine perspective, you know?

And so it kind of creates like a level of emptiness, but it's also a reality.

Yeah.

It's very difficult.

And that's why I have a lot of respect for, you know, some of the guys who I'm friends

with who have, they have their families, they've got their wives and they're like, honestly

some of the best role models, in my opinion, there needs to be more people paying attention

to these types of guys, but it's like a lot of the young kids don't, they don't look up

to that anymore.

It's like they want to.

Well, I think they, I think they do sometimes.

I think like so many, like one of the hardest things for me over the last like five years,

I look, I have two friends who are both probably going to be, uh, one of them's like damn

near a billionaire.

He's going to sell his company and the other one is worth hundreds of millions, he's two

years younger than me.

Have you done, you know, Greg Lavekia, the Bloom founder?

I, I know who he is, but I'm, he's got to do a podcast and he's all in on content and

he's, he's a great guy and I look at his life of like, row, this super stable like,

excuse me.

He's married.

Yeah, they built the company together.

And he just had his first kid and he, you know, got a $25 million house in Austin, $15

million in, in, in Aspen, like he's doing it like objectively, like just fucking crushing

it.

And sometimes it breaks my heart because I don't know how much I got got into like the

open relationship thing that wasn't like a, I think at the time that that wasn't like,

I'm doing this.

I want to do this.

I was kind of like, the whole story is insane.

It makes me think that I don't know if some people are just not supposed to be in relationships

and some people are because maybe some people just find it so easy because naturally,

that's just what they want to do.

And there's other guys who just, they just don't want that.

They're not built for that.

There's a lot of like checklist things like I can see why his worked that they were building

this business together.

They were actively rowing in the same direction like they understood the two dynamics,

right?

Because like, wrote, my situation like this girl was okay with me dying like four years

ago.

Like actually, there was this like deep resentment that I never saw on this 19 year old

kid who like ended up in this relationship.

And I'll just, I'll tell you one little bit of it.

And if I talk to my attorney, we got to crop it out or crop it out.

I don't think we will.

But just for, for a perspective, the only time I was ever, I ever remember like a sorry,

like from her was when we were like 20.

And I can't remember what exactly happened.

And she goes out and she gets a tattoo on her wrist all out fully.

It's a French saying.

And basically tells me that, you know, it means to love until you're crazy.

Like I'm sorry.

I love you this much.

And then I made a song about it.

Like I used to produce hip-hop and my friend like saying the hook and it was like love

into the man.

Like it was this whole beautiful thing.

I find out a couple of years ago, I see some old photos from before we were together.

She had that same tattoo like saved as inspo from like a cut mark from like a, you know,

it was like a Pinterest, like a cut mark.

So I'm going to cut all of fully in their wrist.

I asked her about it.

And she's like, actually, it means to love is insanity.

Like loving would be stupid.

And so I zoom out.

I'm like, wait, what the fuck?

I've been in it.

Right.

She had this on her wrist the whole time.

I was like, so you made like a conscious decision to never, you saw a potential.

Like, you know, and basically you should just road this, this train, this economic situation

and this, this whole thing to a point where like, you know, then she decided, okay, I

don't want to do it anymore.

I think I've gotten everything I could.

And then, you know, when you go to, you know, when you go to like, hey, this is how it's

going to break off.

And you don't like the outcome.

You say, actually, if you ever want to see your kids again, you're going to, you know,

do X, Y, and Z. And then you're just in this horrible situation where you're very

strange, like actually extremely strange.

And I hope one day, like, calmer heads prevail.

But it's been like, I'm not really comfortable with the Western legal system.

Yeah.

I'll say that.

And I see why it's like, you know, like there's reasons some of these laws are in place.

And then there's also like a whole other thing where it's like, yeah, I'm like a normal,

or not normal, but like, I'm not even there.

And you're saying, I should always, you know, like, so I guess you just got to go through

the legal stuff and deal with it, but it was shocking to say the least.

Yeah.

So is that put you off from ever getting married again?

I would not, I don't know why anyone would get married, like respectfully, just because

why would you want a governing, do you, I mean, do you trust, does anyone trust the

government?

No.

And what is marriage?

Marriage is saying I'm going to get them involved in my affairs.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't find some form of commitment or something, but getting

married is literally just, we're getting the government involved, unless you're like

in a certain thing where it's like, okay, maybe this makes sense from like a tax perspective.

Yeah.

Like that's like a very niche middle class where you're committed to working, no, I don't

think anyone should get married.

It doesn't make sense.

Yeah.

Well, I think times of change, cultures changed.

I mean, I have my views on it.

I think for some people, it makes sense.

Like it's, you know, two people, like, they're made for each other.

They're going to live with each other for rest of their life and, okay, do it.

That's right.

But I think I've noticed a lot of guys get married because they think that they have almost,

they're almost punching above their, their weight, they're like, oh, shit, like I've managed

to bag.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like this is, I ain't going to do better than this.

Yeah.

So I'm going to lock it down.

That's just fear and insecurity in themselves, right?

Yeah.

And that just ties back to like what actually, those, those people that I've seen that I,

like Greg and, and who knows, right?

Because again, for 10 years ago, you know, I'm, I'm getting older, like 25, 26, I had

what everyone would call, like it looked like just perfect, with like pre-open relationship,

like all of it.

It was like, presentably, that's what like people wanted.

And things change, right?

And things change when they're not, they're not watered per se.

I, I think I was always like, I can't beat myself up about, I see what Greg has, like,

it's beautiful to me.

He gets to fly on a PJ with his kid from Austin, uh, he's working on his mission, you know,

his wife's comfortable.

It's, it's, it's amazing.

It is like more people should aspire for that, more people should watch his content.

But it's also incredibly rare.

And what actually goes into that working is, um, deep.

Yeah.

And then also, hey, things do change.

Like you zoom out, imagine being with someone for 15 years and then waking up one day and

genuinely feeling like, you don't know who the, like you find out they were maybe planning

to kill you.

Yeah.

Like what the fuck?

Like, actually, it's been like the biggest like, strangest, whatever.

And so I don't get roasted, like, oh, I told you so idiot, but like, hey, you know,

people got to own shit.

Yeah.

You got to like stuff.

This is the first time I've talked about it.

That's what I told you.

It'd be, it has been the most difficult five-month period of my life because I'm, like,

all the things you said I'm trying to do, imagine the back of your mind, like, well,

not, not, not even in the back of my mind.

I wake up every day, having to put an effort to move the ball forward to see my children,

that I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for to maintain all of it.

It's fucking insane.

So not only am I doing all these things, it's not in the back of my mind.

It's in the front of my mind.