Effectively Wild Episode 2448: Season Preview Series: Yankees and Cardinals

Here's your primer on Beef Boys, baseball's in, Roger Angel, and Super Pretzels.

Lily is asked to deal with my trout hypotheticals, waiting for the perfect bat from a volcanic

eruption.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Effectively Wild Introduction.

Hello and welcome to episode 2448 of Effectively Wild, a fan-grapzed baseball podcast brought

to you by our Patreon supporters.

I'm Meg Raleigh, a fan-grapzed, and I'm joined by Ben Limberg of the Ring or Ben Hower

You.

I'm entertained by the concept of Team USA facing just one team, which is the warm-ups for

the WBC.

It's like all the best players at baseball versus the Giants, or whoever's left, I guess.

It's quite a mismatch, I mean, it could be worse, but I don't envy Adrian Howezer,

whoever has to go up against modern murderers row here.

No, I don't know that he enjoyed his first inning, although, you know, it could have gone

a lot worse, because the first four Team USA hitters reached, and I thought Adrian Howezer

in for a long day being sacrificed on the Ulster of Patriotism.

They've righted the ship, they're only down two runs, but it does go with Harper, Judge,

Forber, Braggman, Calarale, Roman Anthony, Byron Bucksdon, Bryce Durang.

That's, that's hard, that's a rough, that's a rough bit of business to deal with.

On Wednesday, Team USA will run into the Rockies, and that'll be the real test, I think,

of whether they're ready to take on the best in the world's Canyon Conquer, the Rockies,

because the Rockies, you know, I haven't looked, so I shouldn't make any assumptions, but

I'm guessing there aren't that many Rockies who have been recruited for WBC service, at

least not on Team USA, maybe.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I guess they're probably at fuller strengths than some other teams that are

diminished by guys who have gone away to play in the WBC, but yeah, when I saw that

on the schedule, I remember when the spring schedules were announced, so the WBC schedules,

and I saw Team USA versus Rockies, it just seemed like some sort of cosmic joke, but who

knows, it's baseball, baseball's weird, maybe the Rockies will win.

Yeah, you know, it is, it is weird, and they won't have to deal with skins, you know,

on the Rockies, they won't have to deal with Paul Skins, and today, and Team USA will

have to tangle with former Team USA ace Kyle Friedland, maybe a bit strong, but he, he

did make previous rasters, he pitched in two games for the 2023 Team USA squad.

Now it's Matthew Boyd's turn.

I think this play-by-play will be really moving to people a whole day later, it's

probably wow, you're painting a picture, I can see it all before me.

It is a fun phenomenon of the spring schedule, though, just the super team versus whatever's

left of one team.

It seems like an unfair fight.

We have a couple team previews for you today.

We will be previewing the Yankees with Gary Phillips of the New York Daily News and the

Cardinals with Derek Gould of the St. Louis Post-Spatch.

I like when there's a little history between the two teams we're previewing, and the last

preview we did, I guess, was Guardians Cubs, and I didn't bring it up because I didn't

want to trigger any memories for Cleveland fans, I'm sure that the memories were triggered

whether I brought it up or not, but there was one World Series match-up between those

two organizations, Yankees Cardinals, though, five World Series match-ups, lots of head-to-head

fall classic history, though, not since 1964, and I doubt that the Cardinals at least will

hold up their end of the bargain for ending that drought this year.

Don't think we're going to get the sixth Yankees Cardinals World Series match-up in

2026, but we will see, I don't want to spoil anything, stay tuned for the season previews

to find out.

Now, we are recording this episode mere hours after I posted the previous episode, but we

have already received a couple corrections.

I have to update a couple things in my just really high priority essential analysis of

naming rights for spring training ball parks versus MLB parks.

So Patreon supporter Sydney pointed out that Goodyear Park, not a sponsorship.

I shouldn't have known that.

I let you down here.

Well, you are the native, you're the local, but I didn't know, I mean, not native, you're

not from there, but it's probably an important distinction to you in some respects, but it's

your adapted home, so you're well aware of Goodyear being a city in the area, which I also

knew.

But when I was just gazing at the list and looking for corporate sponsor names, and then

I saw Goodyear, I thought, yeah, Goodyear, and for good reason, I guess, because as Sydney

noted, Goodyear Park is named for the city of Goodyear, but the city of Goodyear was itself

names for the tire company.

Yeah.

That's true.

Goodyear used to own a lot of lands there.

So I guess that's one way that you can get the benefit of naming rights without having

to pay for them is just get the entire town named after you have a company town or something,

and then you get the exposure for free, basically.

So that's what's happening there.

So if you correct the analysis there, I guess it's just slightly less than half of the

spring training parks and teams instead of slightly more than half have naming rights.

But yeah, that's a little life hack for you.

I guess if you want to skimp on the payments, but get the benefits, it's kind of like

Wrigley Field, for instance, not a naming rights situation, but it's named after the

Wrigley from Wrigley's gum, Wrigley, right?

And so you kind of get some exposure for your brand if your name is the same as the brand.

And I guess that lingers for more than a century.

So clever and I guess good at business, you know, make your dollars work for you.

We're not good at business.

No, we're not.

We're not good at business.

Some people who end up with their names on ball parks, maybe are unless in certain spring

training parks, they're not business folks at all.

They're just local parks and wreck director or something.

And one other important point here.

So this was all prompted because I saw the name Cool Today Park, which is where Atlanta

plays its spring training games today park, cool today park and like we didn't think

that it was actually a mom and pop business because a mom and pop business probably isn't

going to have its name on a ballpark, even a spring training ballpark.

But we were kind of charmed.

It just seemed a little lower budget than what you would see on a big league park.

However, and I guess that's still true, but William writes in to say, it brings me no

pleasure whatsoever to inform you that Cool Today is a part of the wrench group, a private

equity home services platform company owned by Leonard Greed and partners.

Such group raised more than a billion dollars in debt in late 2025.

Unfortunately, it's a little bigger and less innocuous than a mom and pop HVAC company

though it is very nice thought that it could have been one.

This is 2026, William says, I have to Google local plumber name private equity before calling

someone to snake my drains now.

Yeah.

So Cool Today has already been milkshake ducts, I guess on this podcast, we were briefly

charmed by the name of that brand cut, perhaps we shouldn't have done it.

I'm still charmed by the name.

Yeah.

It invites so many different, like, potential points of emphasis in the way you say it.

But with the wrench group, that's a wrench group.

I mean, doesn't that sound pretend?

Does it sound a little bit pretend?

It does, yes.

It sounds like a spoof.

Yeah.

I'm making up a villainous private equity group in a movie is trying to take over your

local hardware store.

It would be pursued by the wrench group, the wrench group, like that's, you know, that's

like Netflix Christmas movie stuff, the wrench group.

Yep.

And speaking of the team that plays at Cool Today Park, a little bit of news broke about

them on Tuesday related to one jerks and profile, who will probably not be playing

me drooling baseball this season.

It sounds like I mean, potentially ever again, per yeah, possibly.

Yeah.

I mean, he has one more PD suspension to go until he achieves the full Henry Mahia of being

banned for life, but he is at least out for this season.

There is an appeal by the players of the Asian, I don't know on what grounds, but they

are appealing that decision.

But obviously he was suspended for PDs last year.

He was suspended for half the season.

He came back.

He hit pretty well, actually, and was part of why the projections for Atlanta pretty

rosy this season and why there were hopes for a bounce back.

And boy, the vibes have to be bad in Brave's camp for multiple reasons.

I guess it's good that we haven't done the preview for the brave.

Yes.

Yes.

And it's would have enjoyed it more if we had started with them when when hopes were

high.

But yeah, between that and injuries, significant injuries for Hurston Waldrop and Spencer

Schwellenbach.

And it's just, it's the script repeating itself thus far.

It's the same guys getting hurt, the same guys getting suspended.

So bummer for the Braves and jerks and what are you doing?

What are you thinking, my man?

It's not great.

And look, I, you know, obviously I don't have

any special insider knowledge about the likelihood of him playing again.

But it's like, for them to come so close together, you're going to need, there's, there

would need to be compelling evidence that like someone was really messing with supplements.

He was taking or something.

And I do wonder, you know, the, the explanation that is often offered by, by guys who get

a PD suspension is that, you know, I took a supplement.

I didn't realize that there was a band substance in it.

And, you know, we have sort of varying levels of credulity when presented with that excuse.

I wonder if something like that might motivate, you know, an appeal on the part of the union.

But it is interesting because generally, when these things are, are done like they don't,

they don't really reach the appeal stage, sort of a done and dusted sort of circumstance.

So I'll be curious to hear more about that, but jerks, come on, buddy, come on.

Yeah.

It's a pretty hard to figure how this could happen because, yes, okay, sometimes I can

buy that it's an accident or at least the excuses that it's an accident.

It's hard to trot out the same excuse, though, because accidents works only once, really.

Right.

And it doesn't even really work once because even then it's, well, you should have been

more careful and you should have checked to see if there was this or that.

And you shouldn't have used this substance.

And I know some countries, you know, it's, you can't count on buying certain things that

are available over the counter and there can be contamination and everything.

But, but there's guidance on that, but you know, you get guidance from your team or from

the players association, presumably, and it's, hey, here's what's safe to use.

Here's what's not worth risking.

And if you have run a foul of that once, let's say that you are innocent that one time,

then you'd expect that that player would be extra careful next time I'm taking no chances

whatsoever.

Yeah.

And he's not the first to have doubled dipped here.

It's interesting because the passons piece at ESPN mentioned that there have been fewer

PD suspensions of big leagueers in recent years.

There were just two last year pro far and Jose Alvarado and five in the past three years.

There was Max Kepler, who was suspended in January two.

I don't mean to laugh at your max, but I do mean the laugh at you.

Well, you know, sometimes when someone who struggles to hit for power is maybe they'd

be the most likely candidate to try to improve their power.

But yeah, it does kind of hit you a different way, I guess.

But, but Jerkson's trying to bring those numbers up all by himself.

It's like no one is picking up the slack for everyone else, not getting suspended.

And he's, I mentioned Mejia, but they're not the only guys to have this happen to them twice

or more in Mejia's case.

And it's really, it reminds me as everything does of the Tobias Fumke or S a development

meme.

Did it work for those people?

No, it never does.

But it might work for us, except that it's worse in this case because those people was

you, you were the one it didn't work for.

If you were actually cheating and you were intentionally taking something and you thought

you could get away with it.

And then you got caught, you would think you would say, oh, well, I put my hand on the

stove and it was hot and I got an ouchy and I will learn from that and not do that again.

And yet there are repeat offenders.

So in addition to Mejia and, well, multiple Mejias, I guess there was JC Mejia also, he was

the last one to be suspended for a full season.

But of course, Robinson can know Francis Martis, Marlon Bird.

So it happens and profile signed a three year deal with Atlanta and already, I guess half

of that is wiped away because half of last season, all of this season, presumably.

And then are you even going to bother to bring him back for the final year when he hasn't

played for a year really?

I mean, I guess you're still on the hook.

So you might see what he has left, not counting on him because you can't even count on him

not to test positive the third time, I guess.

But because he did hit when he returned last year, I guess you give him a chance because

you're paying him anyway, or maybe you're not paying him because he'll get suspended.

And then you won't have to pay him.

So yeah, it's pretty perplexing and it's unfortunate because I enjoyed Profars Breakout and

yes, it was one except now, obviously, forever tainted and forever suspect.

And this is probably what he'll be remembered for more so than top prospect who struggled

and then eventually seemingly made good until this happened.

And now this is the story.

Yeah, we're going to find out that the brave so ownership is like, we'll lose the next

season.

It doesn't matter.

We got to get out of the profile deal.

No, I doubt that that would be sufficient motivation.

But yeah, it's just a shame because it does make it very hard to look at that one very

strong season and think that we weren't just being bamboozled and obviously it's hard

to know.

And anything is as many of that year, but it does make you think it might all be counterfeit.

Can I share two quick thoughts from Team USA action?

Because obviously we've done previews and I was focused on that.

I had it on my second monitor while we were chatting with folks.

And I have to say the following two things.

The first is Aaron Judge is enormous and Bryce Eldridge is enormous sir.

So everyone's got to get used to how big a man that is because good God, good God, Ben.

Yeah.

ESPN is just going to only talk to the team USA guys.

They're not going to talk to us single drag.

They didn't have Posey in the booth, but they could talk to Logan Webb and check out

both boxes.

Yeah.

I wonder where he's sitting today, you know, like where is Logan?

Where is he?

And then my second thought and I have to say this in the interest of fairness, in the interest

of journalistic integrity, in the interest of not bombing Philly's fans out too much.

I just want you to know that right now the looks I've got, God, Bryce Eldridge is enormous

he's the biggest man alive, Ben, he's just the biggest man.

There's never been he's huge.

I've seen him play in person before.

This shouldn't be so surprising to me, but good God.

And some of it is that as we are chatting, we are on the top of the fifth inning, Bryce

Tereng is on first base, which is why I've had occasion to once again grapple with the

enormity of Bryce Eldridge.

I wonder if it's that he is closer because he's in the infield.

He is contrasted with someone who's it's like the old judge out to Vey photos.

Right.

There's just no one to provide the perspective for judge because they're listed at the

same height.

They're both listed at six seven and actually judge if you believe the listed weights has

about 40 pounds on Bryce Eldridge.

I think that Bryce Eldridge is just a scoosh taller than judge.

I think that he's a scoosh taller than him, just even a scoosh that might be.

They're both big boys.

They're a big boy.

By the way, you linked me to that clip of Kershaw warming up and right, it does look

like he's been cultivating this, maybe.

What a lovely way of putting that.

What a nice way.

I stole that from it's always sunny, but yes.

That's a nice, I'd miss that line in his sunny and what a nice way of putting that.

He's just, you know, he's, he's retired.

He sees him into retirement, yeah.

Except that he might end up pitching supremely important innings in a, you know, important

tournament.

We're living a, we're living a strange life in the USA these days, but my second thought

and again, I'm, I'm offering this because, you know, I feel like I've spent a lot of

the off season given the, fillies a bit of a bit of the business and one filly in particular.

And you can't tell these things really that you never know, but I'm just saying Bryce

Harper at this moment looks like a man who is drinking completely normal milk, you know,

we had concerns about him and how, how sort of glant he maybe looked.

He just, he just hit the, hit a nice little, RBI single there and I said, RBI single, he

just hit.

But anyway, he looks like a man who is, he's never in herd of raw milk.

He's never even heard of the weird red light sleeping bag.

He's a man who sleeps in normal sheets and drinks normal milk.

And we know that neither of those things are true, but I just want to offer to fillies

fans some comfort that, you know, he's looked so gone in the face at times in the off season.

And he put him in spikes and a, and a team USA uniform, he looks like a normal guy, he

looks like a normal brace.

Good.

I'm happy to hear it.

All right.

Well, now that we've established that Aaron Judge is large, which will not come as news

to Yankees fans.

We will take a quick break and we'll be back with Gary Phillips of The New York Daily

News to talk about big Aaron Judge and other Yankees followed by Derek Gold on The Cardinals.

All right.

Let's talk about the New York Yankees and we have once again called upon Gary Phillips

who covers the Yankees for The New York Daily News.

Welcome back, Gary.

Thank you guys for having me on, I'm looking forward to talking about the team in the season

ahead.

So the Yankees didn't really make daily news this off season, which probably made things

challenging for you.

And that seems to be the most common complaint among fans that the Yankees have brought

back the same roster, essentially.

And Brian Cashman quibbled with that a few weeks ago.

I think this was before he brought back Paul Goldschmidt and added even more fuel to

the fire.

But that's been the refrain that this is the same team.

And it's understandable because although they re-signed several free agents, they didn't

sign a new free agent to a major league contract.

They did pick up a few players via trade, most notably Ryan Weathers.

So to part question, do you think it's an accurate assessment that the Yankees have essentially

brought back the same team?

And then two, is that a bad thing because it presupposes that a team that what led the

league and run differential and won 94 games that it would be bad to bring that club back?

I do think it is a fairly accurate assessment.

Brian Cashman, when he disputed that assessment a couple of weeks ago, this was at the end

of January, was trying to count trade acquisitions that last year's trade deadline as part

of this off season's roster building.

I don't think Yankee fans want to hear about players who were acquired in July and August

when it's the end of January and spring trainings right around the corner.

So I didn't see what favors it did him or the Yankees to be arguing the semantics of

that, right?

Like, now, is it a bad thing?

I don't necessarily think so.

I know fans want shiny new toys and new players and the way that last season was a disappointment

for them, but the Yankees had baseball's best offense last year.

They tied the American league high for wins that they didn't win the division, right?

Like, they didn't take down the blue jays during the regular season or the post season,

but they also kind of played like boneheads for two months, which has become an annual

tradition in its own separate issue, right?

But like, this is a good roster that they have in place.

I have questions about the bullpen and whether, you know, what happens if some of their

starters get hurt, but I think on paper, this is a good team.

I know the Yankees have also been arguing that, hey, we're getting Garrett Cole back.

Like, we didn't have him last year.

So that's a pretty significant addition is, you know, a generous way to put it or a favorable

way to their thinking to put it, right?

Like, getting a good Garrett Cole back would be a pretty huge deal.

The way I looked at it was Ryan Weathers and on held TV, like those were the biggest

external editions of their off season.

And those are two players that I think going to spring training, you look at them as

projects after watching Weathers up close a little bit.

Like, I don't think he's so much in that project category anymore.

It's more a matter of like, just can he stay healthy?

But like, he looked nasty last week when he made his spring debut.

That's a nice addition to the rotation.

If he's living up to his potential and he's available.

And then obviously, yeah, getting Garrett Cole back and, you know, he's Garrett Cole

or close to Garrett Cole.

Like, that's huge.

So I didn't understand the arguing of the semantics.

I do understand why the Yankees like the roster that they have in place.

So you alluded to them playing like boneheads, which is, I guess, sort of how they ended

the 2024 season, albeit in the World Series.

But some of the same fans who were complaining about the lack of turnover,

probably the turnover that they would have liked.

Well, some of them would have liked probably a new GM.

So you can hold out hope for that.

I'm not holding my breath personally.

Nor do I think it's necessarily imperative that the Yankees make that change.

But also it's a common request among Yankees fans that there be a new manager.

And unsurprisingly, to me, they did not comply with that request.

Either, but that is one of the perennial knocks on Boone that this team just has

flaws.

I was going to say fundamental flaws, but it's more like fundamentals flaws, right?

And maybe that's because of the composition of the team and the roster and the players

and some guys on certain rosters who have been defensively limited, let's say,

et cetera.

But it does seem like the Yankees make a lot of unforced errors that they make

a lot of mental mistakes that they do not always execute.

And this has been a common refrain for years at this point.

And at some point, that probably does reflect on the manager.

So what's the thinking on how they're trying to address that?

Of course, every team in spring training talks about how it's going to be so fundamentally

sound this season, right?

Same refrain.

But is there any prospect for change?

And what do you think is at the root of that issue?

I wish I could tell you the answer to that question because I've written about it now

every year that I've been on the beat, even when I had previous jobs, you know, not

covering the team on the day-to-day basis.

I mean, the players have changed.

The roster has changed.

The coaching staff has changed yet.

The summer swoon always persists.

I wish I could tell you why it happened if it was a fix X and, you know, all of a sudden

the summer swoon goes away like they brought in a couple new coaches this year, including

Dan Fiorito.

He's going to be at first base and he's going to work on defense with guys.

He's going to work on base running with guys.

Does that fix anything?

I don't know.

There's been coaching changes in the past and it hasn't, right?

I think from being a near daily observer, I do wonder sometimes if the Yankees have

just not enough urgency when they're in the middle of these ruts if they have too much

of a macro view of the season, right?

Like, hey, we're just going to go get them tomorrow and pick ourselves up.

Whereas I watch a lot of Blue Jace games this past season and it seemed like there was

a lot of urgency, a lot of, we're going to beat your brains in every single day and

we're going to play on fire and then we're going to go do it again tomorrow.

I don't know if I always sense that type of mentality from the team.

It is something that I'm keeping an eye on this year to see if it changes, especially

if a couple days or a week long rut comes along and all of a sudden it looks like another

swoon is about to hit this team like, do they act differently?

Do they take more of a micro approach to things?

That's my best guess as an observer or somebody who's seen this now year after year or somebody

who's been around the team through these ruts, but I don't have a definitive answer as

to why they happen.

It seems like some of this might be solved by shifting of personnel, some of which will

involve the guys used sort of made reference to who are acquired at the deadline.

I want to talk about the infield and sort of how it's aligned right now with presumably

Jose Cabero at short stop and then how it might be aligned further into the season if

we get the return of Anthony Volpi.

So talk to us about how they're sort of configuring that group right now.

Don't sleep on Ryan McMahon shortstop.

I wouldn't dream of it, Ben, but the thing of it is somebody's got to play third base.

It's true.

Well, talk about a guy who plays with his hair on fire.

I think Cabero fits that description perfectly.

I also think he might need to set the world on fire in order for him to hang on to the

shortstop job once Anthony Volpi comes back.

I mean, the way the Yankees have talked about those two players, they feel spite evidence

to the contrary that Anthony Volpi is part of the solution and somebody that they've

wanted to support and give chances to every step of the way.

And meanwhile, every time Cabero comes up in conversation, if you hear Aaron Boone talk

about the immense value he brings off the bench and how he sees him as a tenth man.

And there's value in playing him in all these different positions or using him as a pinch

runner to steal bases and this and that.

And that came up a week or two ago down the spring training.

And it just made me think like, okay, what does this guy have to do for the job to not

just be handed back to Volpi?

Once Volpi is recovered from his shoulder surgery.

Like Cabero have to hit 340 and suddenly become somewhat of a power hitter and you know

right?

Like he's got a 340 average and five home runs through the first month of the season

and then he gets to keep the job or is this just Volpi's when he comes back?

Right.

I think the way the Yankees have talked about these players, Volpi for three years now,

Cabero going back to last summer would indicate that unless something extraordinary happens

on Cabero's end, I think Volpi is going to get a chance to be the shortstop again.

Yeah.

And I'm almost hesitant to wait into the subject of Anthony Volpi.

It's just so fraught in the fan base.

But the Yankees are not unique in this respect, but they have taken some flack for the way

that they have handled players health at times.

The Anthony Rizzo concussion saga, maybe being the most infamous example.

And Volpi played hurt for most of last season.

He had a partially torn labor in his non throwing shoulder, which he aggravated in May.

And then that ended up requiring surgery after the season.

And he played through it.

Now when we did our Reds preview, we talked about Ellie Dela Cruz and how he was playing

hurt down the stretch and was that wise?

And well, if you have a superstar like him, maybe a compromised Ellie is the best you

can hope for, but is a compromised Volpi the best they could have helped for?

Would it have been better in retrospect to shut him down or get this taken care of rather

than have him play through it?

And given that he did play through it, how do you think it affected him?

And then how should that affect what people are expecting of him now with the shoulder

repaired?

I think prior to the Kobayero trade, the Yankees didn't really have a better alternative.

Like it was Oswald Paraza, who frankly is a major league player, certainly not a major

league player on a team with championship aspirations.

I know he's a good defender, but he's not a good hitter.

He also wasn't even that good defensively last season when playing third a lot for the

Yankees.

So pre-Kabayero trade, no, not really.

They didn't have a better alternative.

After the Kobayero trade, I really struggled to understand the insistence of Volpi getting

as much playing time as he did.

That only increases right when you find out just how messed up the shoulder was and that

even when they went in there for surgery.

The damage was worse than initial tests had suggested.

So I don't quite understand why they did it other than they have this belief in the

player that doesn't match up with public perception.

Whether it impacted him or not last year, the Yankees have been split on that.

Volpi and Aaron Woon have said, no, the shoulder wasn't a detriment of Volpi.

Brian Cashman said, yeah, probably was.

I think there's probably a little bit of truth to both perspectives, right?

I know Volpi's metrics at the plate were a lot better prior to the injury than they

were after it.

At the same time, when he's in the field, it's not his throwing arm.

His shoulder is not preventing him from charging balls and sitting there flat-footed on

grounders.

So I think it's a little hard to say.

I think he still has problems with his plate discipline and his swing decisions.

I think a lot of the defensive issues last year were not necessarily related to the shoulder.

Like again, the footwork was a big problem for him.

So it's tough to say I kind of see where like both camps within the Yankees organization

are coming from.

Well, if there's a lot of potential uncertainty on the infield, the outfield seems pretty

solid.

At least if everybody stays healthy, obviously judge and write Belinger returned and left.

I'm curious about Trent Grisham, probably the least interesting of those three guys, but

let's start with him just because I'm curious a bit about the sequencing here.

He accepted the qualifying offer.

Was that something of a surprise to the Yankees where they hoping he would do that because

he did seem like the kind of guy where his market is potentially going to be affected

a lot by the presence of that qualifying offer.

So talk to us about sort of how that evolved for them.

Yeah, I think the Yankees made the qualifying offer because they were interested in having

Trent Grisham back.

Like I know there's been some fans who have thought like, oh, they only did this because they

wanted the draft pick compensation and they were banking on Grisham going elsewhere.

It's like, no, the Yankees didn't make a $22 million gamble on what essentially amounts

like a fourth or fifth round pick like that.

That's not what they were doing.

By getting Grisham back, they did provide themselves coverage in the outfield and in the event

that Cody Belinger signed elsewhere, right?

They locked in a center field early on in the off season.

I think maybe they were a little surprise that Grisham accepted the offer opposed to testing

the open market, but like you said, that qualifying offer is going to limit what he's able

to get from other teams.

So they, like Trent Grisham, they believe that the metrics he displayed last season are

sustainable and therefore his production is sustainable.

He believes that some of the mental approaches that he made this past season and even over

the course of the last few years, really, are something that's going to help him and benefit

him going forward.

They're also counting on his defense bouncing back and last year was his best season at

the plate in the majors.

He was also his worst season defensively.

He was dealing with a little bit of a hamstring and some other nagging injuries throughout the

season.

So they're banking on and have and do have reason to believe that it wasn't a fluke

for Grisham last year.

And if it ends up being that it was, then it's $22 million and you're the Yankees and

you can move on.

You have two young outfielders who can assume larger roles either later this season or next

season or whenever it may be.

And now with Randall Gritchick in the fold, I'm at Rosario around in addition to Grisham

and Judge and Belancher and Stanton.

It just doesn't seem as if there's currently a role on the roster for Jason Dominguez.

So tell us a little bit about how they have handled him.

I've been kind of perplexed by his apparent struggles in left field as a guy who seemed

to come up as a competent center fielder.

And now that he's facing the prospect of not being able to get regular playing time

again, is he a trade candidate?

Do they still believe in him long term?

I think they do believe in him long term.

That doesn't mean he can't be traded.

It doesn't mean he won't come up in trade talks if the Yankees want to pursue help for

other parts of their roster.

But yeah, the defense is a real issue.

He is still a work in progress in left field.

That's remained the case this spring, just watching him in passing and then seeing

what I've observed down there in Tampa when I was down there.

It's still an issue.

The fact that he still isn't much of a threat from the right side of the plate is an issue

when it comes to impacting that bench, right?

Christian and Belancher, they're both left handed hitters.

So the Yankees would like a righty in that mix from their fourth outfielder or platoon

guy, whatever you want to call him.

That's not going to be Dominguez.

And Brian Cashman recently conceded that every day reps are going to be in his best

interest.

Well, he's not going to get those at the major league level right now unless there's

an injury to one of the starting outfielders or John Carlo Stanton.

So that means back to AAA.

And that's not necessarily a terrible thing for either side, right?

Like I just mentioned two pretty significant areas where Dominguez needs to improve his

game.

He's going to have a chance to do that every day with every day reps at AAA that just

wouldn't come in the majors right now.

He feels a little silly to do a Yankees preview and not talk about Aaron Judge.

But what do you, what do you say about Aaron Judge at this point?

He's pretty good.

Pretty good.

Yeah, what is there left for, for Judge to conquer?

Is he sweating over the fact that he only posted a 204 WRC plus last season as opposed

to the 220 he man, what a washed, absolutely washed.

This is elbow.

How's that?

Yeah.

Well, the elbow seems fine.

He threw for most of the off season.

He actually prepared at a quicker rate and anticipation of the WBC.

So for right now, the elbow seems good.

It's certainly something to continue keeping an eye on, right?

Like we know things can get re aggravated or, you know, resurfaced later on in time.

But right now it seems good.

He seems to be throwing strong just from what I saw in first couple games and during camp

and him playing catch and all that.

One thing, one thing he did say, he was asked early in spring training, you know, hey,

you come to camp every year or he's looking to work on certain things, you know, what's

left for you to work on or try to get better at.

He talked about some guys that you wouldn't expect across the league stealing 30, 40 bases

and, you know, he wants to improve his base running and be more of a base stealer.

I don't know if that was like an illusion to want Soto who had, you know, an unexpected

amount of stolen bases this past season or what.

But that said, I don't really see the Yankees letting judge have the opportunity for 30

something stolen bases like that.

Every Yankees fan listening to this preview just broke out into a sweat.

Yeah.

The idea of him going that much.

I'd be very surprised if the Yankees were giving him the green light that often.

Maybe he just wants to be able to beat jazz, just him Jr. and jazz is made up stat that

he created last year where he, he wanted to combine stolen bases and home runs in an

effort to say like, oh, I was, I was better at this than judge a little friendly competition

they have.

But yeah, I would be pretty stunned if we're seeing judge swipe 30 bases.

Yeah.

I know jazz is aspiring for 50, 50 this year.

So we'll see how that goes.

Speaking of giants with bum elbows, let's just talk about John Crosstanton for a second.

I don't know that any other player combines just appearing so physically imposing with

an underlying fragility the way that John Crosstanton has.

And the latest, he says is that he can't open a bottle.

He can't open a bag of chips, a bag of anything because of his ongoing tennis elbow issues.

And this is concerning to read about.

This was plaguing him last year too, of course.

And somehow when he was on the fields, he'd hit 24 dingers in fewer than 300 played appearances.

So does this issue affect him at the plate?

It sounds as if he is not really holding out any hope of a remedy here.

I know those quotes were recently put out there.

There's nothing new as the time this recording of regarding John Crosstanton's elbows.

He's actually supposed to play in his first spring training game today.

So obviously things with him can change in a hurry.

That game doesn't seem like it'll be televised or broadcasted in any way.

So I guess, stay tuned for Twitter to make sure he comes out of it.

Okay.

But like nothing's changed with his elbows even going back to, you know, this was something

that bothered him throughout the 2024 season and throughout that crazy run that he had

in the playoffs.

It's something that he has said time and time again is going to require maintenance and

there's going to be some pain and no guarantee of surgery, necessarily fixing things, certainly

in a timely manner when he wants to be out there playing and helping the Yankees and be

a force in their lineup, you know, his right-handed bat is extremely important to their

balance because they're so left handed.

So nothing's really changed with him like that could change that in a hurry, right?

The elbows could become too unbearable.

Another lower body injury could pop up.

You mentioned the fragility, like that is something Stan has had to deal with throughout his

career.

But as far as the elbows go, like I have been asked him early in spring training, like

did they hinder your offseason training program at all?

And he said no.

So at the time we're recording, nothing's new on that front.

Well, now that we've talked about those two giants, let's cross off a third and discuss

Spencer Jones, who has already wowed people with tape measure, spring training shots.

How does he fit into this crowded outfield picture, if at all, and what does he have to

prove at AAA to get the call?

Yeah, I mean, you alluded to it, but he fits in essentially the same way that Dominguez

does.

He's going to start the season in all likelihood, barring any injuries to anybody else.

At AAA, he needs to show that he can make more contact and more contact in the strike

zone and not strike out so much.

Now, he's once again fiddled with his mechanics at the plate and his stance, he's kind of

got this Shoei Otani-esque toe tap going on.

It's yielded good results, right?

But like we've seen good results from Spencer Jones in previous spring training.

We've seen good results from Spencer Jones in actual minor league games, this past season.

But the strike out rates and the lack of in zone contact, like those those rates and those

numbers are still way too high to say, like, yeah, this guy belongs in the big leagues

right now.

Or, yeah, this guy is going to be a really good major league hitter.

I know there's a lot of people thinking he could be, you know, early Texas Rangers era

Joey Gallo, who was a really valuable player, right?

But Jones is about to be 25.

Gallo was already having his best seasons in the majors by Jones' age.

So yeah.

I think the jury is still out on him.

He's a really good defender.

He's capable of playing all three outfield positions.

Maybe that even helps him jump to Mingus on the depth chart.

There's an injury in the Yankees need to call up in outfield because Mingus only plays

left field.

There is only trusted in left field at this point.

But he also is a guy that still has some things to work on.

Well, let's let's finish off the outfield.

Tell us what about Cody Belinger was so singular as to occupy so much of Brian Cashman's

time because there was a sense, I think, among Yankees fans, like, can you do multiple things

at once?

Can you do, can you do Belinger, but also, and he, he did.

He tried it for Ryan Weathers, but talk to us about the fit there.

What about his time in New York made him such an obvious target for, for them and what

do you expect from him this year?

I think one of the things Cody Belinger had going for him was that he was not Kyle Tucker

and commanding the salary that Kyle Tucker wanted.

So I think there was something there.

I think there was something to the Yankees seeing that Cody Belinger was comfortable in

New York last season that he enjoyed the market.

He enjoyed the print stripes.

He seemed to fit in well with clubhouse and the coaches and all that.

They also really liked his flexibility and the idea that maybe down the road, we can

move him around or put him in other positions if we need to.

They liked that he was able to tailor his approach to different situations at the plate.

I know there's some metrics that would suggest like, okay, maybe his bat is not going to

age well, but I think something that Belinger did last season, very conscientiously and

very well, was he knew when to be a power hitter or a contact hitter, a slap hitter,

a patient hitter, aggressive, like, he did a really good job of that in the middle

of that order.

And I think all of those factors, including him not being at the very, very tippy top

of the outfield market, like those were all very appealing things to the Yankees.

Well, we've talked about three troublesome elbows thus far.

One of judges in both of Stanton's.

Let's talk about three more elbows.

We'll just get all the elbows out of the way.

Garrett Cole, Carl Sardin, Clark Schmidt, tell us about their timelines and outlooks.

Yeah, so Rodan is theoretically the first one expected back.

The Yankees are hoping that that could happen before the end of April, maybe early May.

He basically is hoping to get in some spring training games by the end of camp that would

then put him on track to start the season on a rehab assignment or maybe one or two

outings at extended spring training, something like that.

They've always, you know, since the surgery was announced, kind of talked about it as a

cautionary thing and not something to worry about so far.

It seems like his timeline lines up with that and the way he's progressing lines up

with that.

Garrett Cole, meanwhile, like he's really good in spring training so far.

Obviously we're talking about bullpen and live batting practice sessions and, you know,

throwing 20-ish, 30 pitches at a time and, you know, not dipping into his entire arsenal,

but he's out there already throwing in 95, almost 97 miles an hour in some cases.

He looks clean.

He looks crisp.

The Yankees are hoping he could be back late May early June.

That's kind of the earlier, you know, end of the spectrum as far as the Tommy John timeline

goes.

But I could just tell you, he's looked really good thus far.

And then Schmidt is a guy who is, you know, several months behind them, right?

Like he's hoping to be a second half post all-star type of option for them, whether that is

in the rotation, whether that's in their bullpen.

Like I think that's all way too far out in the future to determine.

But right now he's essentially just playing catch and going through rehab and recovery

day to day.

I talked to him a little bit about things he's changed with his routine, things he hopes

to change with his arsenal that he hopes are going to keep him healthy, moving forward.

He's a guy who's dealt with injuries in the past as well, including another Tommy John

surgery.

But yeah, he's way off more in the distance.

All right.

I'm going to see if I can get it right on the first go because it's spring training for

all of us.

I think that Cam Schletler was crushed it was a revelation for a lot of people last

year.

The way that he came in and sort of commanded the mound immediately, very impressive.

He also only threw 73 innings.

So what are your expectations for him this year?

Where does he slot into this rotation and, you know, are there any things that he took

away from that initial run of 14 games that he is trying to tweak or alter for his sophomore

campaign?

Yeah.

Might he throw some breaking balls this year?

So, you know, I talked to Cam over the off season and he initially said he wanted to

add a splitter or a change up to his arsenal.

When he got to camp, I followed up with him, you know, asked him, hey, how those pitches

going?

And he said that in actuality, he and the team decided like, no, we're going to fix

the orientation of my existing pitches, particularly the fastball and the curveball.

So he's hoping to get a little more spin, a little more ride on those pitches, hoping that

he can improve and refine what he has before he starts adding additional weapons and working

on some additional things.

He did work on a splitter a little bit last season in spring training and kind of found

that the, you know, his wrist pronation just wasn't lining upright and it wasn't working

out too great.

So I would expect if he ever does add another pitch, it's going to be that change up.

But right now that doesn't seem to be a priority for him or a priority right now for him

is getting into game action and face and live hitters.

He got a little back slash lat issue early on in camp that the Yankees don't think is going

to stop him from being ready for the season opening rotation.

But he's he's a little behind right now.

And even if he is ready for the start of the year is probably not going to be fully built

up.

That was something that Aaron Boone mentioned the other day.

Well, the Yankees have been distinguished by good bullpen's for much of their recent

run.

But last year was an exception.

They were a bottom 10 pen by fan graphs were they do project to be a top 10 pen again

this year.

It's a bit of a different look.

It's some of those mid season pickups you mentioned and some of their late inning

guys from last year are now met so take us through this slightly rebuilt bullpen.

Yeah, so you've got David Bednar as the closer right there at the top.

After that, you're looking at two, I would say pretty nasty, but pretty erratic sedentment

in Fernando Cruz and Camilo de Valle.

You have Tim Hill in there as your lefty specialist and Yankees giving you that funky junk ball

look.

And after that, you got a bunch of question marks.

You have two swing men in Ryan Yarbrough and Paul Blackburn who, you know, firing any

injuries, any more injuries to the rotation are going to be in the bullpen.

And then after that, you've got Jake Bird who made a nightmareish first impression last

year with the Yankees, but it's somebody that they believe in.

They're very high on Brent Hedrick.

There's rule five draft pit Kate Winquest.

They traded for I mentioned before on how Chibi Chi got him from the Rockies.

Gary Dale Santos is another guy who had some success in a limited capacity last year

for them.

So basically a lot of flyers and projects and lottery tickets that, you know, the Yankees

are hoping one or two of these guys pan out and that they can hit on them as they construct

what is another pretty cheap bullpen I wrote recently like the Yankees haven't spent big

on a free agent or a lever since 2019, which is kind of hard to believe considering the

amount of money they spend overall.

Brian Cashman basically said it just hasn't panned out that way.

It's not any sort of policy that the team has that that might be something that, you know,

a streak that they have to snap next all season when Bednar hits free agency.

But yeah, for the time being, they're going with another pretty cheap bullpen and counting

on their pitching department to find some diamonds in the rough.

That anticipates my next question, which is, you know, in the event that there is under

performance from this group or just injury because, you know, that happens with pitchers

who are the guys who are sort of floating around the high minors who you expect might be,

you know, the first ones they call up.

I mean, Carlos Lagrange's stuff looks like it would be incredible coming out of the

bullpen.

It looks like it's an incredible period and I think the Yankees want to give him a chance

to remain a starter long term, you know, every step of the way that said if we get to

the summer and the bullpen isn't doing all that well or somebody gets hurt or are you

just going to let 103 miles per hour sit there at triple A and not impact the big league

roster.

Like, I would be pretty shocked if that were the case now.

Now that said him, Eleanor Rodriguez, you know, maybe they're first in line if there's

an injury to the rotation and they leapfrog Yarbrough or Blackburn, but I think if we're

just talking about the bullpen here, like, yeah, Carlos Lagrange's stuff would work pretty

nicely in a short burst.

You wrote last month about how the Yankees are talking a big game about being aggressive

with challenges and so far, they are walking the walk.

And I guess when those challenges are lead to over in turns, then sometimes actually getting

walks.

So they have challenged 20 times as we record on Tuesday afternoon and their second in

the majors, the guardians are at 21.

And there's really quite a range because the Marlins down at the bottom, they played the

same number of games as the Yankees and they've challenged three times.

So whether this will be reflective of the rates in the regular season, I don't know, but

it certainly does seem as if the Yankees are making this a priority.

I'm somewhat disappointed to learn via a recent Mike Petriello piece that we can't necessarily

expect Aaron Judge to be even better because of the challenges.

There's been some thinking that guys at the height extremes would benefit from this because

of their non-standard strike zones and at least checking the triple A success rates Mike

found that there seems to be some truth to that for shorter players, the out two ways

of the world, but not necessarily for the giants, the Spencer Joneses and judges when

it comes to the challenge success rate.

But take us a little bit through this philosophy and do you think that what we've seen so far

this spring is a reflection of what we will see all season?

I don't think it'll necessarily be as frequent as we see in the regular season.

You know what the Yankees are doing now in spring training is kind of letting their players

experiment, right?

Like, and they're experimenting in the same sense.

They want to see who's really good at this, who has a great understanding of the strike

zone, who is going to do it objectively versus getting caught up in an emotional decision

because they don't like a call, right, or they're upset with themselves in a big situation.

So I think it will evolve.

I think it will become a little more strategic and even said recently, like what they're

doing now won't necessarily be the same as what they do in May, won't necessarily be

the same as what they do in October, right?

I think for all these teams, it's going to be an evolving thing, a learning process

that they're going to determine X, Y, and Z on our roster is really, really good at this.

And A, B, and C, we don't trust them at all, like don't, you're not allowed to touch

your head.

We'll see.

What would that said?

I do expect the Yankees to be pretty accurate and pretty successful with this, like they've

always been a team that controls the strike zone really well and works pitchers really

well.

This goes all the way back to, you know, savages in the box, right?

Like that's what that was all about was like we're, we know what the strike zone looks

like and we're really good at controlling it.

So they still believe that they still stress that when it comes to their offensive philosophy.

So as far as at least their hitters, challenging pitches and using ABS, I would expect them

to be pretty accurate with it.

Well, we always close by asking what would constitute success for this team in the upcoming

season.

And I know in Yankees land, everyone affiliated with the team is supposed to say world

series or bust.

Maybe they've been a bit less dogmatic about that lately, given that they haven't won

since 2009, maybe it becomes more difficult to maintain that line.

But realistically speaking, not that Yankees fans are always realistic with their expectations,

but how should fans assess whether this season is a success?

I mean, as somebody who covers the team, I can't say anything other than them winning

world series, right?

Like that is what fans have been conditioned to expect, even if the organization itself

has taken its foot a little bit off the gas in some ways in that regard.

But that said, I do think the Yankees are a team that is capable of doing that.

I think they are a team that's capable of winning the American League East.

I think they're a team that's capable of having the best record in the American League.

I think they need some things to break in their favor for that to happen.

I think they need to get a better than expected performance from their pulpit.

I think they need to make sure certain guys in their lineup don't regress, while others

take younger hitters, take steps forward.

And I think they really need that rotation to stay healthy.

Like on paper, it's a really good starting group.

They have way more than five starters.

But in addition to Cole, Rodan, and Schmidt, starting the season on the IL, you've also

got Freed, Schlitler, Will Warn, they're all coming off of career high workloads.

Louise Hew and Ryan Weathers, we know have notable injury histories.

So there are some question marks in this group, but that doesn't mean they can't achieve

whatever Yankees fan is hoping for.

Well, Yankees fans will hope that the sewage overflow at Steinbrenner Fields at the start

of the Great Fruit League season was not a bad omen.

That actually happened in 2023 and when they did at the end of spring training and ended

up being my opening anecdote when I wrote the season's obituary when they didn't make

the playoffs.

So maybe I can recycle that one if things go wrong this year.

File that one away, but fans will hope that you don't get to use it, in fact, maybe

you can use it either way.

Maybe you can just call back to the inauspicious beginning and how it actually wasn't

portentious.

Either way, there will be daily news from here on out and extra extra you can read all

about it at the New York Daily News from Gary Phillips.

Thank you again, Gary.

Thanks for having me on.

Well, I guess the positive spin on some of the Yankees issues with fundamentals that

we just discussed might be that you don't sweat the small stuff when the big guys are

taken care of.

The big guys like Aaron Judge, though I guess you might regret not sweating the small

stuff when it contributes to a spectacular loss in a world series elimination game in

which that big guy drops a fly ball, then the small stuff becomes big.

But at least you got there, I guess?

Anyway, let's take a quick break and we'll be back to talk about a team that has historically

been known for excelling at the small stuff, but has had problems with the big issues of

late.

Derek Gould will join us to talk about when the Cardinals will be an entertaining team.

All right, we're back.

We're ready to talk about the St. Louis Cardinals and we have brought on a great guest, Derek

Gould, who is the lead baseball writer for the St. Louis Post's match.

We also podcast about the Cardinals for the best podcast in baseball.

Welcome back, Derek.

Hello.

Hello.

I'm thrilled to be back.

Thank you for the invitation.

This is great.

We call it the second best podcast in baseball mind because of you guys, but they just

flop off the second time for marketing.

Yeah.

Well, I can't speak for the fan base.

It has not been the best team in baseball of late and not by coincidence, some of those

best fans have stayed away.

We will discuss that.

I'm sure.

But the most recent piece that you have published as we speak here on Tuesday afternoon, the

headline starts with who is on the Cardinals opening day roster.

And you know what?

That's probably a question that a lot of people are asking themselves these days, especially

if they didn't pay close attention over the offseason because it's going to look a little

different this year.

So that's some service journalism from you.

We just did the Yankees preview and we talked about the lack of turnover and how fans are

upset about that.

But catch your blessings because sometimes turnover means that your team got worse at

least in the short term, though there is a plan.

And maybe this will pay off in the long run.

So take us through this offseason, Exodus, all the departures, Miles, Michaelis, left

via free agency.

But then a quartet of veteran Cardinals departed via trade, Sonny Gray, Wilson Contreras, both

to Boston, Nolan Arnato, to the Diamondbacks, Brendan Donovan, to Meg's Mariners.

So what was the plan embarking on this offseason?

Was it everything must go?

And they executed that and did they have any ideas about here's what we want to get back

for these guys?

I think it's that, but almost like more nuanced to after that, right?

Like it was and everything must go, slim down the payroll, move to a younger model, rethink,

rework, replenish the roster, heavy focus on player development.

But I think there was some of this, like some must go and some must bring great return,

right?

So this is the second winter in a row that they approached the players with no trade

clauses.

Sonny Gray, Wilson Contreras, and Nolan Arnato were the chief among them.

Miles, Michaelis also had a no trade clause.

But they went to the three guys who were more recently all stars and said, hey, do you

want to go?

And we'll work to trade you, and this was in John Moselec's last winter.

Nolan Arnato said, I would like to go win somewhere.

But my list, his list was very narrow, and he had some, at several points, was like,

I can't, I can't, I can't, I just stay a cardinal, just that I wanted to be a cardinal.

Maybe they can win, wouldn't it be great if the cardinals were actually the cardinals

like I wanted to be, and let's do that.

So then fast forward to this winter.

And it was more of like, okay, look, you know, got to find a place for Arnato, Arnato agreed

and widened his list.

Does Sonny want out?

Sonny said, I'm out of point.

And his career where he wanted to go win, and could the cardinals make that work?

And also could they move fast to do so?

That was also part of it.

With Wilson, it was a little less sure that he definitely wanted out, but he was open

to it if he found a place in a city that was to his liking, his family's liking, all that

stuff.

Haim was able to put all that together, and that brings us to then Brennan-Donovan and

Meg's Mariners, which is a way different conversation than these other three, right?

This was a salary that they were fine to have.

This is a player who they like having around.

This is a player who they could find a spot for in the lineup and not block JJ Weatherhold.

It all worked out.

But they also recognized this was a player in demand.

And maybe among the most demand of any player this off-season.

And so how could they maximize his return, and would it be this winter, would it be at

the trade deadline, certainly wouldn't be next winter.

So that's what they set out to do, was how to get the most return possible for him, because

his window of control is different than their window of contention.

And that was the big thing.

So the goals of the off-season were basically to, as you said, three must go.

One must get a whole lot in return, and overall accumulate as much pitching talent as possible.

Those were the three kind of biggest themes and biggest priorities of winter.

I wanted to ask you about their own understanding of their window of contention,

because I think one of the things that's striking about the deals that they did this off-season,

you know, you're right that obviously there's a ton of pitching here.

A lot of the pitching is bigly gritty or near-bigly gritty.

And some of the position players are a little more speculative and perhaps a bit further away.

But this isn't the return of a franchise that I would say,

oh, they think they're five years from contending.

Like this group seems like some of them are going to be on the big league roster this year,

and others might not be far away.

So as they're thinking through this rebuild or reset,

it's dramatic in terms of, you know, the profile of the guys they've moved,

and sort of the number of traits they've done.

But when did they think they're going to be ready next?

This is really a really compelling point that you make because

part of the goal was to fill in the gap or the donut hole of their of their

minor league system, which was pitching that was ready to contribute.

And they have done that.

What they recognize that they have position players who they want to see

if they're ready to contribute.

And a few other who rose to prominence, like a Joshua Baez,

this past year who put themselves on the map to contribute.

So that balance, if they had set out to script it,

they probably couldn't have done it as well as they did where

the acquisition of position players was sort of in line with where they needed it.

And the acquisition of pitchers was closer to the majors,

because that's where they were going to need it.

As far as what that does to goose their contention,

they want it to fast forward it.

Whether you talk to the owners or harm bloom,

or over more mall with the manager with his new extension.

I mean, they don't want a five year plan.

They don't think that that's like really something they can get away with in St. Louis.

Ticket sales were down dramatically.

They have to launch a new TV program.

You know, they have the real estate development and ballpark village around there.

They need to reinvigorate this fan base.

And oh, by the way, there's the lockout looming.

So they have to do it while also maybe emerging from labor chill.

Right?

So they recognize that they cannot or at least the way they talk

is they don't want to have a slow play.

Ownership has said they would like to get back into the top third of spending on the payroll.

And they want to time it when it's adding an augmenting a core of homegrown players.

So they are setting out this like almost blueprint for give us a year to

understanding the lockout is coming.

May lose some games.

Who knows?

But give two so that this core of you know, players and pitchers who are all in that say

three to six year range of control and about to be joined by J.J.

Weatherhold who zero to six that two years out, then they get the big additions

where the power is needed, where the spending is needed.

And that's when they go win again.

They don't want a long-term situation here.

And that's evident both in actions and in comments.

I mean, I think if you look at their actions, right?

They've cleared the way Brennan Donovan was part of this for

for Weatherhold to be their starting every day second basement.

You know, what good does that do for them if he's there in 2026?

We lose games in 2027.

And then the Cardinals come back in 2028 and they're not ready to contend.

And he's about ready to make a lot of money or get an extension.

The Cardinals hired Bloom after the 2023 season as an advisor to then Pogo, John Mosaic.

And then they announced a year after that.

So heading into the 2024 to 25 off season that he would succeed.

Mosaic and they then signed Bloom to a five-year deal.

It's not unheard of, I suppose, but it's unusual for there not just to be an air apparent,

but a named air and successor who's just waiting in the wings for a year or more.

So how did Bloom use that time before he officially took the reins to prepare to hit the ground

running? And how did he and Mosaic juggle the decision-making, knowing that Bloom would be the

one who would have to reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of any decisions made by Mosaic?

Yeah, one of the things that they did do, and I will see if this other team, if other teams follow,

but it's exactly as you said by naming an air what they gave Bloom was a task.

Go improve the player development.

Go work on the minor league system, you get 12 months to do it, and then that's the basis

upon which you build your team. You get to pour the foundation for 12 months,

expand staff, improve tech, change the thinking, bring us, you know,

like the owners have said, bring us up to date on development, on pitching,

on scouting, on how we think about things internally. That was his charge.

And so Bloom had 12 months to basically build the beginnings of his team,

that then his contract didn't start until he became pobo. It was a really fascinating approach,

but in his descriptions and others' descriptions, is it allowed him to really focus on

constructing the player development and the infrastructure that they needed to pull off the

model that he would then run, and it meant that he didn't also have to do the pobo job

at the same time. Didn't have to go with the daily transactions, didn't have to,

you know, pick through the waivers to go through the injuries. He could spend 12 months

really with a staff of his choosing and a larger staff at that, and also get to know the people

who he would be then working with or choose to work with. It was really fascinating and how

they worked, you know, the responsibilities. Mozelec had final call. That was very clear.

He said as much and would say as much often. Bloom also said that, you know, the decision while he

is present in baseball operations is his ownership echoed that. However, where Mozelec and Bloom

found places to work together was in deals and decisions that Bloom would ultimately inherit.

So Bloom's input was there all over on trades, on who they sought, what they wanted to get,

because Mozelec was making choices, especially, like, particularly on trades, right?

Like, going out to try to get the pitching that would then fit into the model or fit the requirements,

or fit the preferences of what Bloom was building. It didn't make much sense for Mozelec to go

and get what he thought was the best pitching prospect in a deal. If that pitching prospect didn't

also have the traits that Bloom was prioritizing below. So they would work in concert on that.

And you could see Bloom's input in everywhere from the draft. And when I say Bloom, let me be

clear, I mean, like Bloom's group, right? The folks that he brought in. You could see that

in the draft. You could see that in the trades that they made before Mozelec stepped aside.

You could see that in waiver claims. You could see it in a lot of different ways. And what that

also allowed, and this is like really inside baseball, but hey, that's what we do, right?

is it allowed for this collaborative culture that Haim Bloom wanted to create the first day he was

in the seat. It allowed that to take place before then, particularly at the draft, where,

you know, Randy Flores has, has governed and run and been at the helm for several drafts. Now,

going back to before 2017, he's run the drafts for the Cardinals. And he was going to run this draft,

but he was taking an input from Haim's pitching development group, player development. What do they

think they could do with guys? What are they prying a prioritize in pictures? What were they looking

for and stuff? What's a modern picture to look like? How do we look at these data? What kind of

data can we get? Let's bring in the analytics group. Let's have them talk some more. Hey, let's go

back to them. Bloom wanted to create a lot more of instead of a funnel of information,

like a mouse trap of information. If we think of like a mouse trap is in like a big interstate

where everybody's kind of moving in directions to get to a destination, he wanted more of a free

flow of information going back to places, more input from more places, you know, less of a scouts

just filing a report like pro scouts were doing and more going back to them and saying, okay,

how do we do this? Bringing player development in. And we started to see that kind of decision-making

tree come into play that then in the first month of Bloom's leadership, he really expanded. Adding

departments, adding directors, adding levels of scouts that had previously not been in place for

the Cardinals. Well, I'm sure that Cardinals fans will happy to hear all this because it does

make it sound like there's a direction at least and the organization has seemed somewhat

aimless lately. And we talked about the Exodus from the roster. I alluded to the Exodus from

ball parks by fans. So this past season, the Cardinals had the biggest decline in year-over-year

attendance per game, almost 8,000. That's a pretty big number. And that was their second consecutive

season that they had the biggest decline in that metric. And also the season before that, they were

one of four teams to lose per game attendance that year. That was the year of the new rules when

attendance was up generally. So that's three years in a row that there's been a big decline.

Kind of hard to do that. I guess it speaks to how strong the foundation was before that,

that they had that far to fall and they could have the biggest losses a couple of seasons in a row.

Now, the Cardinals have, I guess, led a fairly charmed life in this century or any century for

that matter in the grand scheme of things. And probably other fan bases are looking at the Cardinals

from the past couple of years and thinking you were two games under 500 over the past two seasons,

you know, Crimea River, right? And the season before that was 71 wins. That was that was the

Nadir. That was the disaster. That was bottoming out for other teams that they're looking up at

that number. So was it just that a fan base that was accustomed to a perennially contending team

was suddenly confronted with the prospect of an at best fringe contender. Or was it not just

the record, but the boring composition of the team because we decided at the end of last season

that the Cardinals were the team that we had talked about least in 2025. That was not scientific,

but that was our sense, not just mediocre in terms of their record, but just not a lot of exciting

stories really. Ouch, man. I know. I mean, so many exciting stories like on the team. Not like from

the, yeah, okay. Yes, but yes, you did the best you could with the material you were given,

but the Cardinals were not given you much to work with. So was it a combination of both? Was it

more one or the other just, hey, we're not that good or not only are we not that good, but we're

not that entertaining? I mean, they kind of were like the sitcom that stayed a season too long,

right? Yeah. I mean, they kind of had that feel. I think it's all of what you described. I,

you know, I've for a few years here asked and wondered and written and really tried to discuss with

fans like, why does this team not capture your imagination anymore? Is it because it's not good enough?

Is it because it doesn't have Yadda or Melina? Is it because it doesn't have elbow pull? I mean,

you think about the peaks of 2022, right? With the chase for 700, the farewell tour, all that

stuff, you know, is it because that era closed with such a resounding thought? You mentioned

June 2023, losing season first year after Yadda or Melina's retirement, but also you go back to

the October 2022 when a blown save against the Phillies leads to just disaster in that round of

the playoffs and they're out. I mean, they had all this energy, all this enthusiasm, all this

magic really, you know, with Albert Poohol's the second half, the 700th home run at Dodger Stadium,

the celebration and everything like that. And that season ends with Yadda or Melina and Albert Poohol's

taking their final at bats, both of them getting singles, no one else helping, no other contribution,

just this fitting kind of, you know, fizzle of an end when there wasn't production elsewhere,

other than those two and then they say farewell. So I don't know if like, I think it was just all of

those things and then we'd be remiss not to say that like, look, the entertainment dollars shrink

for people and costs went up. So I think that is also a factor. I mean, people were not traveling,

you know, but the carnal success is drawing from beyond the boundaries of St. Louis. They just,

they don't have the population within either the city or even the county to sustain the kind of

attendance numbers that they had for so long, but they also didn't need it because they were such a

regional draw. Their history is so huge and so, you know, driven by the fact that people will drive

from other states to attend carnal games because they listened or now generate their grandparents

listened to carnal games on the radio. Okay, Moax had that strong of a reach. And so they are very

much a regional team. And when you see a decline in spending on entertainment and a decline on

travel, which we've seen, right? And we'll see how, you know, we've seen some shift and improvement

in that obviously economically. But the carnal's are going to take a really strong hit with that.

And then when you couple that with a team that wasn't playing well or wasn't playing exciting and

also didn't have the past stars or the personality, all these things come together for a serious

decline. And it caught no one by surprise. I mean, the carnal's were prepared for it. They set

as much and they did as much with more giveaways and more reduced tickets. They saw what was coming.

And they realized that there just might be some cardinal fatigue.

Well, let's talk about a guy who might inspire someone to get in the car and drive a little

bit to go see him. My colleagues and their columns. No, I'm of course. But another guy.

We've mentioned JJ Weatherhold by name. Tell cardinals fans a couple of things here.

What are they getting in him when he makes the majors? When might he make the majors? And where will

he play when he does? I can answer the final two questions there. Rather easily opening day

second basement. That seems that that is where all of this is headed. It would be a surprise if he

is not their opening day second basement. Something would have happened in the closing weeks of spring

training or in a complete pivot in organizational philosophy that just would, well, Hanbloom would have

to explain. It would be very different. But they have set him up, set JJ Weatherhold up to be their

opening day second basement. There's a lot of excitement about him. And he's done nothing. But go out

and in these early days of spring, earn it. He stands out. He's a, what are fans getting? He is a,

I mean, he's just a very polished, confident, in control, hitter with a surprising amount

of pop from the left side. Defensively, he has strides to make, to be more consistent, to

turn his athleticism into success at the higher speeds of games that he's about to experience. But

he'll get there because he's got, he just appears to have all the kind of right skill sets and

athleticism to pull that off, especially at second base. He's a good fit there. Offensively, he's

just, he's a really gifted player when it comes to being, you know, we would describe as a complete

hitter. I don't know, like what we think of that now, like he's gonna, he's gonna have a good

OPS, you know, he's gonna be a player who's going to a well-balanced OPS. He's gonna bring both

on-base percentage and doubles to it. And those doubles are someday in his career going to become

home runs. He's, he's a really strong offensive player. Two of the other reasons to get excited

about the future of the Cardinals who were on last year's Big League roster were Mason win, maybe

the most valuable Cardinals, certainly most valuable position player who's still just 23, Victor

Scott the second who is 25. Those two guys were among the top 15, top 14, even most valuable

defenders in baseball, according to Statcast. However, they were both below average hitters,

which you can live with at premium positions, especially if like when you're only a little bit

below average, whereas Scott was significantly below. So gloves alone can propel those guys to being

valuable players, but if they could hit a bit, then they could be great players. So what's the

outlook for offensive improvement for that duo? Before answering that, can I ask you guys a

quick question? Sure. Okay, and it's right in line with that, and I'd love your opinion on this.

Okay, so you're totally right, like they give enough, you know, glove, right, where they can play,

they can contribute, they get, they, they contribute in a lot of ways and their defense is elite

at positions where elite Scott's base runner too. Yeah, base dealer. Yeah. All right, so here's

my question. Is that enough to contender, or is that just enough to be okay? Like, can a team

contend with just glove up the middle? How good is JJ Weatherhole? Right. Yeah. That's a lot to

compensate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you have boppers on the corners, it runs or runs, right?

So no, and the carls were what's only 18% below average and right field and 22% below average and

left field. So they're totally okay in that garden. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't, uh, despite those two

highlights, I guess overall they were a pretty good defensive team, but it was mostly those two

guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And run production wasn't there from the corners at all. Okay, so that's,

that's sort of like where we're at with the carls. And I think you asked you a really good question

about it because the 2026 carls, I almost have to like adjust my lens. That's the best way I can

do it. You know, it's for so long talking about the carls. It's about through the lens of October.

How did you get there? How good are you going to be when you get there? And now you're asking me

about like, well, do they need to have average offense in two positions that they need to have

above average offense to get to October? And so I almost have to like dial back this notion of what

are the carls, right? In both of those cases, when was dealing with a torn meniscus playing through

a real painful knee? He posted as they say and was really lacking on some of the explosive speed

that he needs to be part of his offensive game, right? And it's got to be, you know, whether that

steals or whether that's infield hits or, well, you know, however, he's going to accumulate 90 feet

at a time. He was slowed by pain in his knee. So there's more offense to be had there. And he knows

Victor Scott has a lot of folks within the cardinals excited about what he's about to do.

And where that stems from is this commitment he's had, these conversations that they've had.

And he brings it up and he calls it his brand of baseball, you know, and how he has to be exceptional

at that. And I will give you an example of it. In the second inning of his first game of spring

training, he dropped a sacrifice punt. It's great fruit league play, zero, zero game. And this is

when hitters are like supposed to get their timing and they were track pitches. I can't tell you

how many veterans I just watched take pitches. And here's Victor Scott going, okay, in a regular

season game, I'm told, I don't know what run is going to win this game. This might be that run.

I can do this. And he did it. And it was just a sacrifice punt. But his speed, some of those

are going to turn into, you know, hits, right? And we've seen him do that too. And so he is kind

of cultivating this game where he's going to he's going to really look at his what he provides

through on base percentage. And this notion of productive outs and not making outs, take walks,

uses speed, find ways, because a walk can be a double with his ability to steal second.

And I think that they see a real a real level that he can get to. And it goes back to like a

question I asked three years ago. I guess it was. He was a non roster player here. Very impressive.

Like just a lot of athleticism, but it was the way he was playing the game was very impressive.

And I was asking like, what kind of on base percentage does he need to have just just to be

an everyday player? And is that the same on base percentage of all of a sudden he's like a store

because of his speed and his willingness to steal. And what he can do defensively, which is a

style of play that we brings us back to the fans that might energize fans that might

integrate fans and might bring them back to the ballpark. It certainly could be a throwback

for Cardinal fans to have that style of play. And so I think both of those players they trend

towards being above average, not power above average, but above average and not making outs.

And then taking bases, whether it be by base running in Mason's case or base stealing in Victor's

case, where you're going to see above average offensive players. They're just going to get there

in different ways. You mentioned some of the deficits that they've experienced in the corners.

And maybe we can talk about two of the guys who have struggled here, slightly different trajectories

because Nolan Gorman has had a good big league season and then things have sort of trended

downwards since 2023. And I think Jordan Walker could best be described maybe as having had

failure to launch, at least in the way that prospect evaluators and certainly the Cardinals,

I'm sure we're hoping. So talk to us about those two guys. Do you think that Gorman may be having

more consistent time at third with some of the trades that they've made will be beneficial to him?

What's the state of Jordan Walker's defense? Like is there any hope there for improvement?

Kind of where did those guys sit and and how likely do you think it is that each of them is a

part of the next good Cardinals team? Also a failure to launch in terms of getting the ball off the

grant. They're having that too. Yeah. It hasn't been an easy time for him. I thought that was

the double meaning. Was that the joke? Did I do the Simpsons? That was the joke. Yeah. I don't know.

It can be helpful to explain these things. I appreciate it. All right. So yeah, Nolan Gorman at third

more time there should be better. He's moving around better. They wanted him to come in a little

bit more moving better with more mobility. He struggled with range last year. They're like,

hey, get your body ready to play third base, not just your footwork and your arm. Get your body

to be more mobile there. Don't lose strength because that's still what you are as a hitter.

But think about instead of in the middle of the season being asked or thrown into third base,

prepare for it and really work on your mobility there and he has. He's improved there. I think

Jordan Walker defensively made the strides last year that they would love for him to make offensively

this year. He improved really a good bit defensively. He did have a ways to go but he got more

aggressive. He got more assertive. He got more comfortable. He's come into spring this year's

stronger and also leaner. He's carrying less weight than he went out to play right field last year.

And he's like, he's moving around better and they feel like that athleticism that was a real

hallmark of even him and his size that that's there and that will help. He has the arm for

right field. He had this throw the other day. It was very impressive. He's always had that arm.

It was about accessing it with his other play and he's moving better. I don't know if he's

going to go out there and win a gold glove but he's going to go out there and not be a liability

where a few years ago he looked at the Cardinals and they had such rough and rugged defense in the

outfield that these misplays became doubles for other teams and that was such a

burden on the pitching staff. It's been such an emphasis this spring that they feel they're going

to struggle to score runs but their pitching might be better than people anticipate and so they're

like protect it and they're like telling the position players this protect it. Do not make this

more difficult on the quality of pitching that they're going to get. Don't make the innings longer

on these guys. This is our strength. Be careful of the pitching. I think Jordan can handle that

defensively out there and right field given the kind of learning curve that he's been on.

I didn't ever expect to say this but now it's about that offense catching up. This is such a huge

year for your final question for both of them like for both Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker and

I don't know if the team has put it this bluntly. Well, Han Bloom has been pretty clear

about the significance of this year for Nolan Gorman and for the importance of this year for

Jordan Walker and you know again like it hasn't probably been directly said but it probably could

be that if they want to be a part of this core it's now or not like it's either going to happen

this year with the Cardinals or they're going to be looking for it to try to happen elsewhere.

I guess you could even lumpplar's newt bar in with them. He's a few years older obviously

but a few years ago it was looking like oh he's a good player already and perhaps poised on

the precipice of stardom and people were predicting great things and then stagnation or perhaps

backsliding since then. Yeah, injury is physical in limitation. I mean he had a really

coming I just actually was looking at this today this you know last-world baseball classic he was

the rising star right. Just so prominent and I mean he got all of Japan doing his pepper mill

celebration which was incredible. You know he comes out of that with advertising deals and sponsorships

and stuff like that and you know this year he's watching from Florida as he rehabs from surgeries

on both of his feet and you know he's just had such a difficult time and it seems odd to say this

and that's kind of why I was looking at it today was you know he had a career high for games play

and all that stuff last year and the baseball savante the stack cast numbers really and he's a

stack cast darling they just haven't quite manifested and it's sometimes it can be confusing like

why hasn't that happened therefore a while it's because he just never really had a run of anything

more than 50 games and the one time he did he was all star like he was remarkable when he played

50 plus games in a row and then since then it's just he's had such a run of injuries that he had

he believes is related to this reason why he had surgery you know he had such pain and irritation

and inflammation in his feet it was really changing his running gate it was changing how he played

the position he said there were times where it made it difficult to go up the stairs and he was

kind of dismissive of it as just part of what it means to play baseball every day they hope this

surgery and the advancements made in the surgery are going to help him he says it in his

quality of life he already feels it like in the weight room when he's working out or going up

stairs again going down them he says he already feels the difference he has yet to run at full

speed but that brings me to the thing that the Cardinals really believe he's yet to play at full

speed and if so not and it hasn't for years so they think and then this is I mean they got a lot

of overtures there was interest in him for trades but they felt like gosh it it would be difficult

to watch him thrive and shine for another team after going through this with him so why not see

if it can happen for the Cardinals Cardinals have a lot of catchers on on the active ruster on the

40 man in the organization just in general and I always root for the offense first catcher I think

this is a product of my upbringing watching Jorge Posada being conditioned to think wow it's a huge

advantage if you can have a big bat behind the plate of course later I learned how much he was

hurting them defensively and suddenly I was thinking Jose Molina is more valuable than Jorge

Posada actually the other Molina supposedly the lesser Molina so I don't know if this surplus of

catchers is an attempt to recreate Yadier Molina in the aggregate or what but but I root for Ivan

Herrera just because I can construct an argument with some creative accounting that he has been

the best hidden catcher in baseball over the past couple years eat your heart out Cal Raleigh if

I set the minimum low enough at 250 plate appearances or even 270 mega you're gonna let that stand

I mean I can rally make your make your case I guess I don't know man I think I don't know

over the past two seasons minimum 250 plate appearances as a catcher Ivan Herrera has the highest

WRC plus while behind the plate 150 to cows 143 if you I'm sorry this is the difference we're

talking about you had to drop the I said I was gonna throw that low when you're talking about seven

points of WRC plus that's yeah this is yeah I'm the fun facts lie and I'm lying right now but

he has been obviously a good hitter overall and even if I if I don't do the as a catcher and I

just do anyone who had that many plate appearances as a catcher he was the second best hidden catcher

in baseball person who is capable of catching let's say instead of catcher but he did have a surgery

this off season with an eye towards being able to throw which is advantageous for someone who

aspires to catch so it seems like he wants to will he be able to and will he be allowed to

allowed to yes will he be able to to be determined and this is a longer term question

than just Jupiter, Florida this is a you know this is something that's you know I talked to

the high bloom and also how I'm all about specifically you know asking if they felt they needed

to leave here with a decision on Herrera and this speaks to sort of Meg's questions about their

timetable to contend right they have time on their side for the first time in a long time they've

they've tried to bend it to their will like last year with their reset and runway and all the

other words they threw at us now they're in full blown rebuild and everybody is like okay well you

know you got to build towards something but there is an understanding of time and if Herrera can be

a reliable catcher for 60 games of the season that changes the cardinals right I mean it just does

because then the idea would be you have somewhere else for a big bat to be in the lineup

but getting there is going to take more time than they have in spring because he also I see

it healthy get his arm I'm going I'm going they've worked with him on his throwing mechanics because

they deteriorated due to the pain in his elbow and what he had addressed with the surgery

the loose bodies that were removed and everything like that he just over time had altered his mechanics

and that had a lot to do with why throws were tailing on him why it's such difficulty throwing

people out so he's working on that and they're going to give him time to do that he also just

candidly needs time going over and preparing for games as a catcher you know improving in that

regard and they there's a way for him to do that while on the job because you know he'll be

likely one of three catchers that they go north with at this point but definitely one of two

where he'll get to learn from pay hook droppas and and kind of watch how he prepares for a game

watch how he has quickly won over and continues to win over the confidence of the pitching staff

and what that means and what he does behind the plate defensively and you know just the

different things that that Herrera could adopt from that this is also the year that Yadier

Melina is going to be more of a presence with the team so there's a lot of interest in how that

plays out you know a guest coach this last year a couple times but now he's got a role and part of

that role has already been working closely with catchers and Herrera is part of that so we'll see

how that goes it's interesting that like like his offense is real like he's he's a good

hitter we we talk sort of around the BP and everything like that other reporters and everything

like that like like how many home runs is he going to hit right like is he that kind of hitter

or is he just kind of like a good hitter it's going to be around that 20 home runs just every year

and he might not even be the catcher with the most offensive upside that the Cardinals have

that's the 19-year-old John El Rodriguez who is already like the kid you're not the majorly

staff is like well how do we put him in the lineup here at spring game he's barely 19 for

our listeners context yeah he's barely 19 and when he was 18 Nolan Arnato not Nolan Arnato

was an 18 but Ronaldo Rodriguez was 18 and Nolan Arnato came back from a rehab assignment and

he was like telling anybody anybody he's like oh I saw this kid he can hit you want to know

who the best hitter is it's this kid first great fruit league at batty gets a start in one of the

first game I think it's a second game that second game I talked about we're actually you know what

it's exactly the situation that I talked about with Victor Scott right now Rodriguez first

of bat he rips like a 108 double down the line Victor Scott comes up and goes well I'll put him

at third and everyone's talking about the 108 and double from this 19-year-old kid but Victor

Scott's play in the game so it was quite a moment in cardinal history that we can look back on

clearly if it all works out there you go I mean you kind of anticipated my next question because

Rodriguez is hardly their only sort of catching depth in the in the high minors they have Jimmy

Crook stay on their Leonardo Bernal I'm curious sort of even beyond the catching position

who are the guys who are sort of floating around the high minors who you would anticipate

Cardinals fans seeing at some point this summer whether it's because they forced the issue down

there because injury or underperformance at the big league level sort of forces the hand of the

organization that's a good question when you add those last little bits I think I think Joshua

Bias is on the way I don't have like an ETA but his he made he took a leap this past year

and he took a leap in a way that like almost if you could put a recipe for how a position player

how a young prospect is going to make that jump from all right what's next is he struggling as

he stalled all that stuff to oh you might be something it's him I mean he showed speed he showed

a better command of the strike zone and the power manifested he had this he had this played appearance

look it's whatever seventh inning of a great-for-league game they're it's not a sell out sold out crowd

it's Marlon's versus Cardinals so I mean we can forgive folks for not having a whole lot of

enthusiasm at this moment in in early March for this game and yet the crowd was captivated by

as is it played appearance the other day as he challenged back-to-back pitches and like on the ABS

it was this moment of like oh well this is how this ABS is going to work and I asked all I'm

normal afterwards like I get it like competitively and even like in games how ABS is going to change

things I said but could ABS be like a learning tool as well for like cannot be confirmation for him

that he's in command of the strike zone and Marlon said this is why you make a huge deal about what

he did like to him as a coach as a manager you go up to him and say like this is what this is

what you did you earn that walk a walk of all things had everybody just like riveted but because

of what he's trying to do and the improvement that he's made as a prospect you know that walk

shows command of a strike zone that is going to pay off in power because of the swing decisions

he's going to make and I think I think he's on the way the prospect who's probably going to arrive

and have like a really interesting impact is Luis Guestalum right-handed reliever who has just

this sinister changeup that people can't figure out you know he may not get the run to make the

opening day roster it doesn't look like he's going to he's going off to team Mexico for the WBC

and he hasn't yet been in triple A but I don't expect him to be there for very long they the

major league staff and everybody around major league hitters everybody is really there they think

this pitch plays at the highest level so why wait for it I think he'll have an impact and then

like Bryson Mott left he their pitcher the year this past year in the organization he's going to

present them a dilemma at some point in time whether or not he's a lefty reliever for them

now and this isn't a March thing this might be a May or June thing or is he a starter long term

and the Cardinals of our forefathers meaning 18 months ago would have made the decision on the

now saying trying to contend now this guy can get left he's out now let's see what he does against

Soto and Otani and bring him up but the Cardinals are the present are more future focused and may

see if they can get that into a starter who can contribute I think we can dispense with the

pitchers much more quickly than we did with the position players because I have a lot fewer questions

about them I guess the whole pitching staff is sort of a question mark and they project to produce

the third fewest war better than only the Rockies and the Nationals which is never really where

you want to be it's sort of a non-descript it's not far from where they were either I'm trying

it no no no I'm laughing because I'm trying to think of like what sentence would you want to be

near the Nationals and the Rockies like what would be like with like the craft beer scene your

rank yeah I was gonna right I was gonna lean facilities yeah yeah but it's it's a fairly

non-descript staff from afar I guess if you get far enough away from anything it's sort of

non-descript but the Cardinals in particular and last season they well they were grouped right with

those Rockies and the Nationals again and this is not a place where you want to be with them either

the lowest strikeout rates in baseball and and this is where the Cardinals have lived lately

but it seems like this is not where Heimblum wants them to continue to live so we started this by

talking about how this whole offseason was about collecting pitching and the future so now it feels

like kind of a holding pattern for pitching so I guess my question is who on this staff right now

might be part of that pitching picture beyond this year and what's the timeline for raising that

strikeout rate the timeline for raising that strikeout rate is March 26th is that right yeah

this has been something that Marmol has pitching coach Dusty Plank they've all been pushing and

talking and seeking and making some decisions roster decisions uses decisions all that stuff

they've really made it a priority when possible they talked to the media and they talked to the

pitchers all over the last two years you know I watched one member of the the Cardinals coaching

staff sit down and like try to go through the traits of one of the pitchers pitches like his

arsenal right and how do you adjust it just enough to get more strikeouts and they were going through

the spin they were looking at all the data they had and lining it up with other pitches that do

get strikeouts and they're like what can this guy do because right now he's just getting contact

which was the name of the game for the Cardinals for so long for generation really and they're like

can we just dial this just differently and show this guy how to do it to get more swings and misses

they've they've made decisions with the bullpen based on swings and misses they've made decisions

with the draft and recent acquisitions with swings and misses this is something that you said

what's the timeline for a higher strikeout I mean like they wanted to be yesterday like I'm not

even kidding and like Richard Fitz goes out there and he was very impressive in his Cardinals debut

against the Mets and you look at Matthew Libertor he's made some adjustments added a tick of

velocity that if he can sustain it's really going to help him miss bats they want to bring more

high course power more strikeouts and they want to do so immediately that isn't going to mean

that like all of a sudden Michael McGriffee is a different pitcher he's still going to be a guy

who goes out there and throws sinkers and gets ground balls but it does mean that Andre Polante

is trying to be right because he has to miss bats and he's integrated and he's worked on this

change up that can do that but it's also why they're looking at like Kyle Leihy as a starter

because they think what he does with seven different pitches is going to play better is they're

going to be able to amplify him as a as a starter in ways that they only first got to feel for

as a reliever and so this is like this is the clear and present area where if the Cardinals want

to advance and advance quickly they feel they can do that with the pitching just as you outlined

they just want to do this they think that that's the first wave that they can get done and get done

quickly as far as this improvements go. The most important question is which side will

Dr. Angelo Sangio try to get strikeouts from I'm actually asking that question what have they

learned I was their plan for him. So what you have watched him as a Mariners prospect what

would you do what's your opinion what's your view of it? I think that there's the what is likely

to have the biggest beneficial impact for the team answer which is that he should be a right-handed

starter and then there's the most fun version which is that he's a right-handed starter and

then you do weird stuff with him out of the bullpen on what would be his throw day but I imagine

that they will probably just want him to throw it righty right? So in Major League Camp they had him

throw games and live BP right-handed they did not stop him from throwing left hand he did do that

from the bullpen or in bullpen sessions and everything like that. I think you know as we talk

the minor league staff is putting together a more like here's your season plan on how this looks

at because he was one of the early players reassigned and it was in part because all right he got

big league camp he got this exposure this is what they did in big league camp let's talk about like

a more a more bigger plan because one of the things that the Cardinals don't they want to be aware of

and they they brought this up multiple times is what does it mean to him to be a switch pitcher

and as part of his identity but also and I had one of the coaches tell me this but also his

preparation and how he thinks about getting ready and how he stays healthy and how he's learning

to pitch from both sides like if you just stop one of those then you'll never know what it becomes

but also what do you do to the other side by stopping it because he's enjoyed this this is a skill

and so they they do want to take that into account they don't want to end the left side because

they feel the the upside maybe higher and closer you know as a right hand pitcher one of the coaches

here in development told me why not ask the question about can you get the left side equal to right

to right what are you missing on the left side to bring that up and you know that's at least a

conversation that they want to have which I think is interesting because again it goes back to

they got time and they do want to value the fact that he's interested in it well we have come to

our closing question which is what would constitute success for the Cardinals this season and we're

into the part of the previews where the answers are typically not make the playoffs win a playoff

round unless you're really an optimist and that usually would have been the answer for the Cardinals

but now what exactly is the hope in terms of maybe getting people to come back to the field

and how they perform on the field and just the long-term overhaul of the whole organization

yeah it's it's really it's a good I mean they used to be so easy you know and actually

nationally pennant man that's that's the sound of success everything else is measured by that

you know another Hall of Famer on the field a continuous run of of that so many things are

different now with the Cardinals it's it's difficult to know the question you asked me is kind

of the one that I'm eager to ask them as opening day approaches and I will this is like how do you

measure it what what does success look like and don't give me the you know win the division stuff

right because clearly you're looking at a longer-term conversation you know I think for the Cardinals

success has to exist on two tracks for them they need to reinvigorate their fanbase they they

have to find some way to excite the fanbase again is that a youth movement is that

entertaining exciting players is that a rotation that has four guys coming out throwing 98 or

hard I don't know but something has to has to galvanize the fanbase and maybe maybe it's time for

a little bit of a paradigm shift where it is actually an underdog team galvanizes this fanbase

used to winning I think that would be a fascinating outcome and that would be a success if they

can connect with their fans on that on the field they have to leave this season with what they

didn't have this past season and you know they set out in 2025 to say we want to identify the players

the young players that can be counted on to be part of the next contender and the lack of an

answer wasn't answer right like if you go out and say we need to find these guys and at the end

of the year you haven't that isn't answer but they're running it back in some ways and they're

going to widen the amount of opportunity and they've shed the pressure of expectations they've

just dropped it they're like hey guys let's see how you do without the heaviness of the laundry

these are not your mat holiday Chris Carpenter Albert Poole she out in really no cardinals anymore

these are your mason win JJ weather hold Liam Doyle Cardinals who are you gonna be and so they've

shed these expectations they've said it's yours go do it if they end this season wondering who their

next core is they have their answer it's not here and success has to be that they've found it

does that make sense yeah and it's interesting to me we we have really barely mentioned Ali

Marmal during this conversation he did just sign a two year extension that's super long term

and teams typically don't love to go into a season with a lame duck manager managers don't either

but not that long ago we would talk about Marmal and you would hear people talk about Marmal

about well Yadia Molina's waiting in the wings and all he's having clubhouse issues and PR-wise

things aren't going great and I don't know if it's just well maybe you you stick with a guy until

you think you're ready to contend again but it's not as if Yadia's managerial aspirations or

coaching aspirations have changed he's managing in the WPC right now you mentioned he's gonna be

a presence around the team but is it no longer the case that Molina has seen as someone who

might take over that role or that Marmal has had issues in the clubhouse whoa those are

different questions all right Molina has not changed his interest in being a manager at some point

he has expressed previously an interest in managing he has adjusted that to an interest in coaching

Marmal has consistently invited Molina to be part of his coaching staff this is something that

Marmal first did when I don't know if he first did but he certainly formally did when Yadia came back

for Adam Wainwrights you know celebration right Molina came in Marmal invited him into his office

and talked to him then about joining the coaching staff like can you be here for

we want you a part of this on the daily so Yadia has been more open to that he wants to see his

son he tells us he wants to see his son through his senior year of high school and into the draft

that's this coming year that's happening right now um he's draft eligible this summer and then

he wants to look at what the options are but he's not just like focused on managing he said he's

open to coaching too and that in some ways that might actually be a better entry point for him

yeah demands and the times and all that stuff is something he's gonna have to adjust to okay so

to the other part of is he seen as the manager and waiting I guess is the way you kind of phrase

please correct me if I'm wrong yeah or there was a time when there were various flare-ups Tyler

O'Neill or whatever it was where it seemed like things weren't going great from a communications

standpoint which only inflamed Wilson Contreras right which was I guess related to Molina in

another way just because he wasn't because he wasn't Molina yeah yeah um so I think it so the fan

base clearly adores Molina for every reason that he is obvious and for an additional reason uh because

they've not been good since he left and what he meant to this organization kind of comes it's like

you know like absence brings clarity to what presence once was does that make sense like that's

that's what's happened here there's everybody kind of knew how good got here Molina was at his role

and for the Cardinals and everything while he was playing for them but his absence has really brought

into perspective how much he made happen and how good he was at influencing games at just guiding

on the field okay so the fan base has dubbed him the manager in a way that ownership and the front

office never had and you know they they they've talked to him about being part of it they want him

around they see that but I think it's important that they've not said they've not looked at him that

way and we'll see how high and bloom he's new maybe he has some different views on this but they've

all been really especially ownership um resolutely marmoles the right guy for this and bloom had his

I mean I think it's really interesting that you know bloom had the right to move on he did

in a lot of ways he could bring in his own people he could bring in his own manager or he could

wait a year and bring in his own manager he's in charge and he has that authority ownership said

you know pull us out of this do what you need to do and he decided that the guy he wanted to work

with through this was marmal and we you guys asked about that year where like the gap year I guess

we could call it for him um where he was in charge of the minor league he worked a lot with marmal

in helping to create that that interaction that I talked about between the majors and minors right

player development and big leagues make sure that player development doesn't stop at the big league

door all that stuff um they really work close together and they forged a relationship and

they have a lot of shared views about how this could go and they both want to do that together

and I think that decision with ownership's backing reveals a lot about the view of their manager

at this time and the view of this team and who it needs and that brings us around to like you

mentioned the Tyler O'Neill the Wilson Contrary the Wilson Contrary thing that was a mess they've

talked about it the the messaging was off the number of voices that were involved were off they

it just wasn't it lacked coordination and the worst part about it is the guy who was trying to

give them the most took the brunt of it what Wilson Contrary's a quick side point we the baseball

writers gave him there every year we have a dinner in Saint Louis raise money for scholarships

and an internship that we pay for and everything and we give out awards and if you know Paul

Goldschmidt wins the MVP award we get to give him the MVP award but we also give out a man

of the year award based for Saint Louis baseball man of the year award that year allows a year for

the Cardinals I mean we could have given the baseball man of the year award to Max Scherzer because

he's a local kid and everyone went to get oh yeah cool we're to Darryl Strawberry because he lives

nearby and people would be like yeah yeah totally we gave it to Wilson Contrary's because of what he

went through and how committed he remained despite being buffeted by weird messaging by criticism

by all that stuff I it was very impressive what he steered himself through and then still performed

that season I don't know how much that had to do with the manager piloting them out of that

as much as piloting in into that those are different things you know the messaging was off he

could have been involved in that he's talked about it that he should have been a little bit different

at the forefront but he certainly was important to bringing them out of it the Tyler O'Neill thing that

was more of a manager stepping in to do what peers would not and that wasn't so much a clubhouse

issue with the manager it was what the clubhouse wasn't willing to do for one of their own and

then the manager stepped in because it it was a very those nuances are kind of missed in the headlines

and I don't blame anyone but it's kind of things that we covered at ground level as it unfolded

but then it hits like the big exclamation point and it goes out on social media and you never quite

the whole story never quite catches up to what was more sensational it's the same kind of thing with

like you know the pole of players and Oliver Marmel you know one of the players was talking about

like just picking the manager that was like had the team that was performing less than expectations

well no kidding that's the Cardinals like for three years that's been the Cardinals but look at the

roster they had I mean how much did you expect I mean in a way they were expected to live up to

the brand without the brand name roster when they were good on offense they were thin on pitching

when they kind of beefed up the pitching to at least average they were thin on offense and it's

just never coincided in the roster was never really strong and the minor league was not really ready

to replenish it and is that the manager is the manager making the most of that I think you know

that I don't have an answer for that but I think that like these are the questions that ownership

at least arrived at a decision saying with what he was given this is the guy who should get a chance

to lead this in the same way that they look at Mason winning go this is the guy who should get a

chance to define this in the same way they go to JJ well at home go this is a guy who deserves

the playing time to show that he's going to be the next star part of the next core and I think

they see their manager in that same way well nuance perspectives from people on the scene that's

why we do these previews and we couldn't have done it much better than we did with Derek Gold if

anyone had the Cardinals in the pool of probably longest team preview in the series congrats it just

paid off I think we probably just talked more about the Cardinals than we had in the previous calendar

year since last year's preview but you know what they're a more interesting team in transition I

think than they were when they were on the verge of some sort of transition I mean they sure hope so

man will that interest yeah they want to move tickets so yeah they need it yeah well we will see and

we will find out in part by following Derek Gold's coverage for the St. Louis post a spatch you can

also hear him on the best podcast in baseball and he is one of the best beat writers in baseball and

it's great to get your insight given that you've been on this beat for 20 plus years so you know

of what you speak and and you're still the top of your game so thank you very much Derek appreciate

it thank you for those kind words yeah thanks that is that's that's not a way of saying that I'm

old right it's that I'm in my prime correct yes I can't I can't believe that Molina's kid is

draft eligible this yeah that's the sure reminder my first week on the beat was his first week in

the majors I believe yeah not yeah how about that yeah well I guess we'll find out whether game

calling and working with pictures is hereditary I don't know three brothers say it is yeah there's

that's there's good bloodlines here perfect thank you Derek thank you guys for having me this has

been a pleasure really enjoyed talking to you we started this episode by bantering about

jerks and profars pd suspension and how we haven't seen a lot of big leagueers get popped for

pd's lately I guess no one told nl east outfielders because yohan rojas of the philies a first time

offender also reportedly tested positive after we spoke earlier was reported that profar tested positive

for exogenous testosterone but hey who isn't taking testosterone in rfk juniors america right

can't do that if you're subject to a testing regimen though I meant to mention earlier that I had

come across the statement that profar put out last time he tested positive and also the brave's

statement which said that the team was surprised and extremely disappointed but they said they fully

support the program and our hopeful jerkson will learn from this experience and to invoke arrested

development again this is where the narrator would come in and say he did not though I guess he

did learn to take a different supplement or at least he tested positive last time I think for a

masking agent for an anabolic steroid so hey maybe he's switched up his stack at least

as sam pandan blue sky pro-farmance enhancing drugs his suspension starts on friday he can still

appeal it but as passon pointed out a pd suspension hasn't been overturned via grievance in more than

a decade and as for rojas he is appealing his suspension as well more fodder for our philies preview

which will be next week next time we will talk mariners and marlins mariners marlins maddle star

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