Ep. 1137 - Illini regular-season wrap-up roundtable with Mike LaTulip & Isaac Trotter

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Welcome in to the Wine & Quire podcast.

The regular season is over.

So we decided let's bring in our two experts.

IsaacTraderCBSports.com, Michael Tup, our Wine & Quire basketball analyst.

You can see him on CBS Sports Network.

Doing a lot of great games here.

Recently, welcome boys.

I can't wait to break this all down.

We're going to do a little bit about Illinois.

We'll go across the Big Ten.

And then we'll do our annual Big Ten tournament draft to kind of preview

the conference tournaments as we look ahead to March.

I wish Mike a happy March.

Last week, so IsaacTrader, happy March.

How are you, buddy?

Doing well.

Yeah, this is just utter survival time for I think College basketball teams

and college basketball media.

It just never stops here for the next three weeks.

And here we go, Big Ten tournament this week.

The selection Sunday and six days.

This is like the time where I feel like it's just a test.

It's like the test is like six days away.

And you're kind of crammed every ounce of information

over the next 72 to 48, 47 two hours.

Mike, I can't imagine what this feeling is like.

Is a player.

What's it like as a media member now?

As a media member, balancing multiple jobs.

It's a lot.

But it's weird being on the other side of it, for sure.

But it's still exciting to you all the same.

I think almost, almost more so in a way,

because there aren't any real consequences for me at this point.

So I'm just enjoying it.

A little less pressure plus you get to watch all of it, right?

It's a player.

I can't imagine you got to watch much of it.

No, I mean, I think the only stuff you really want,

I mean, if there's a big game on,

and you happen to be with all the guys and it's on great,

I'm not going out of my way to be like,

I got to go back and watch Bama Auburn from last night.

No, that's got more of a luxury to do that nowadays.

All right, let's start before we dive into Illinois

in the regular season as a total.

Let's talk about the last week of the regular season.

Recap it a little bit.

Pull out win over Oregon.

Then it was a little dicey at Maryland.

So Isaac, we had pitched this as a get right week.

Did Illinois get right?

Would you think of their last week?

I just thought it was more survival.

I think especially for a lot of teams

in the last week of the regular season

when you're not playing for a title anymore,

think across the landscape of the sport,

you saw a lot of teams just kind of be like,

we just got to get through these games.

And I think there says something to be able to win games

and you don't necessarily play your best.

And for long stretches against Oregon,

I didn't think Illinois was great.

Then they kind of pulled away and put it together.

Maryland, I felt like they kind of let

some of the role players get going for Maryland

a little bit, made some tough shots,

but you still find a way to kind of grind the game out.

At this point, it's just you're on to March.

We don't have a bad loss on the resume after last week.

I wouldn't say the staff is probably leaving going, man,

we really cleaned up all of our issues right now,

but at the same time, I think you feel like,

hey, we've crossed our bridge.

We're two at step two of three is done.

And now we go into step three

and you don't have any horrible losses here

from the last week, even if you didn't necessarily feel

all of the warm and fuzzies after Oregon and Maryland.

How about you Mike?

Yeah, I think Isaac nailed it.

I think this was a handled business type of week.

And I thought they handled business.

And I will never overlook winning on the road.

And then the big 10, I know that sounds like a cliche.

I know Maryland's not very good,

but I thought Maryland put for it.

They're probably best 40 minutes

that they've maybe put together all season.

So to withstand that and then to ride a two game winning streak

into the post season.

I think when I was at Illinois, we always

used to have like a clear delineation, I guess,

between we called our non-conference season one,

we called our conference season two,

and then we called post season three.

We played the big 10 tournament season three

and then season four was the end to the tournament.

Because I think it just allows you to like focus on the task

at hand.

And I'm excited to see what this group can do.

Because like Isaac said, no bad losses.

I mean, the Wisconsin game, it's like they're going

and there being everybody.

So no bad losses certainly kept yourself

on the two line this week.

And probably have instillated yourself pretty well

to stay there, maybe regardless of the outcome in Chicago.

Did the ladder straddle the two seasons?

I can't remember Mike.

I was not there for the last year after this stuff.

Infamous ladder that John Gross brought out there.

Isaac, do you remember?

I can't remember, but I think it was season two

and season three straddle those.

I just remember watching some of those YouTube videos

that they're still around here somewhere

if you find them with the ladder,

no comments on future ladder uses.

Yeah, just had to make that.

All right, let's recap this Illinois regular season boys.

Mike, I'll start with you.

How would you grade Illinois basketball's regular season?

They go 24 and seven, 15 and five in the big 10,

eight and two on the road in the big 10, seven and three at home.

What kind of grading skill are we talking about?

Eight, you know, A through F.

I'm just gonna go, I'm gonna go a very firm A.

And what I'm most impressed with,

and you just mentioned it Jeremy,

was how this group performed on the road in comments play.

Eight and two and absolutely should have been nine and one.

And so to me, that's the difference between being a two seed

and really being like a four five seed,

if you think about it.

You take care of business at Ohio State,

Purdue didn't do that.

You take care of business at Iowa, Nebraska didn't do that.

You take care of business at Nebraska.

Michigan State didn't do that.

I mean, you were able to get wins, crucial wins

in those places.

And that to me, that's ultimately how you end up

finding yourself in a triple buy situation,

finding yourself in a on the two, three line

in the NCAA tournament, that's how it's done.

So that takes a certain mental makeup to do that

and to get to the next game.

And then my hope is that for this group that has performed well

away from home this season,

they can just continue to roll with that

and capture that as we get into postseason play.

Yeah, Isaac, they were projected to finish fourth in the big 10.

They tie for second.

They're projected preseason six and eight in the Kenpom

and Evan Maya rankings.

They finished number nine in the AP top 25.

So what's your grid?

Mine was a little bit lower than mine.

So I was in that B plus a minus range only because I felt like

this was a roster that you felt could win an extra or the big 10 title.

And you felt like you were not quite on that level

compared to the Michigan's of the world,

especially when it felt also like you could have controlled

some of those things to you had a really frustrating

couple over time losses that I felt like if you were able

to get over the hump in some of those,

just kind of grind them out at the end.

You could have put yourself in a different position

to add a banner to this group.

So I think that's kind of where I was at.

Like I feel like it would have been hard for me to give an A

to a group that doesn't win the big 10 title

when you felt like you could win.

That's the only reason.

And also you had a few missed opportunities

early and non-conference play as well

that I think could kind of hold me

from giving you an A or an A plus.

But overall, this team exceeded expectations.

And I think the cool part about the regular season

is that they did it in ways that we were not predicting

in October.

Like the Keaton-Wogler emergence has been really,

you know, a kind of a feather in their cap

with their recruiting.

And it's I think something that will stay

with Tyler Underwood's resume forever.

And then the David Mirkovitch emergence as well too,

is something that I didn't expect

from the preseason at all.

And so like to exceed expectations,

to put yourself in position to be a tier one,

tier one A type of national championship contender,

I think speaks to the quality of the roster

that you put together.

But I just couldn't get to an A because it felt like,

I felt like an A grade for me would be a team

that was competing for the Big Ten Championship

in the final week.

And Illinois didn't take care of business to do that.

Mike, did you want to follow up?

Yeah, I mean, I think Michigan's just,

that's, I bar.

They're in, yeah, I mean, they're in such a different

stratosphere.

And we'll obviously talk about them at some point here.

But to me, I mean, some of the points you mentioned,

Isaac, were the reason why I went to an A

because you look at Thomas Lobb this year,

you look at, you know, Kylan in a way this year,

Stoyacovitch has probably been more up and down

than we anticipated.

And it all goes back to, I mean, these other guys

that you've had, I mean, what does your season look like

if you don't have a Keaton Wogler,

if you don't have a David Mirkovitch?

So that's a feather in their cap,

just from a recruiting standpoint.

And for those guys to step up and kind of grab the,

like, that's what put it into the A category for me was like,

a lot of other teams that maybe rely on a couple of freshmen

or a lot of other teams that rely on like,

hey, here's our returners.

Like if, if, you know, if Nebraska got Sanford

and Sanford just, you know, maybe underperformed

or if Rink Mask who kind of has in a way,

if he had just completely underperformed,

like that's what are those seasons look like for those teams?

So I, I'm sure, I'm trying to think of like the whole piece of the pie

here and I'm trying not to really put them up against that Michigan team

because if that Michigan team is not a thing,

you're looking at, you know, a potential tie at the top

and maybe a share of the title.

And that's an A plus season for Michigan, right?

And A plus off season, like they didn't miss.

They didn't miss.

Like Illinois did miss.

Like my high old Petrovitch did not make an impact here.

Audra Story Archivitch did not make as big of an impact.

That part of that was because of David and Keaton-Wagler.

But Illinois had some misses,

losing Maurice Johnson was a miss,

but the way they were able to make up for it

were some of those hits eyes.

It was pretty amazing.

No question.

And I think that's like, I think that does speak

to like the type of new age roster building

that I think is starting to emerge.

And Illinois feels like they're kind of on the forefront of that

where it's like, how many outs do you have built into your roster?

And so like, I think Illinois has a lot more outs built in

with their roster building this year and moving forward.

And like, I think you could argue that this is the most

talented roster that Brad has put together.

So I think if you want to say like,

hey, like that's an A type of season

because you've added in like all of this talent.

Like I understand that.

I just feel like there was like a,

they're just, it felt like this team

in this regular season was really, really close

to being 28 and 3 or 29 and 2.

And that's the slim margins of big 10 basketball play

in an era or this year, especially

where there's, you know, excellent guard play,

just excellent rosters near the top of the league.

But this group was really, really close to being 28 and 3.

And if they play like a 28 and 3 team in the next four weeks

of the season, we're going to be on a multiple podcast here

for a while.

I'm right in between you guys.

Like, I'm with you.

I had a minus.

That's what I had written down just because there was

a little bit more I thought they could have,

but still just a fantastic season.

One of the best under Brad Underwood.

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All right, next topic.

I think we can all agree Keaton-Waggers, the MVP of this team

and David Mirkovic is number two.

None of us would have said that in the preseason.

So my question to you, who would be number three

in your MVP voting for this team?

And if you want to talk about Wagon Mirkovic,

we kind of hit on them there,

but Isaac I'll let you go first.

Mine would be Kyron Boswell, even though he drives me nuts sometimes.

I just think that like the defense, the rim pressure

is something that you really need.

I think he gives you a different feel

when he's on the floor.

He feels like he kind of connects the dots for you

because you have that second ball handler out there.

I still don't trust him on his pull up threes.

Like every single time he takes a pull up three,

I kind of die a little bit inside

and I don't really know why.

That's the problem.

Because you know it's probably not going to get in here.

But yeah, but for the most part, I think that Boswell has been

one of their most consistent players this year

on a night-to-night basis

because I feel like I know what I'm getting from him.

Every single night, the good, the bad, the ugly,

I know what I'm getting from Kyron Boswell

and I feel like he's been their third in the MVP pecking order.

Go ahead, Mike.

Yeah, he's third, Kyron's third.

And really because all the reasons Isaac mentioned

and I feel like there's still more in there defensively for him.

I'm just trying to think that if he wasn't there at all,

that point of attack defense would be,

we saw it would be really rough.

Yeah, I mean, it would be really rough.

So he's in there, he's third.

I had an honorable mention that I honestly thought

of making third.

I honestly thought about it.

I thought of making third the combination of Jacob.

Yes, that's what I'd written down.

This is a conversation that kind of gets in there.

It's like 60% Jake, 40% Ben.

Yeah, like that combo has patched together so much,

especially when, and I know Ben gets put in a tough spot

sometimes, he's 69 Garden Diggie Coit yesterday.

But the fact that when you look down the roster

and it probably after Kylin,

and this is just like the feeling that I get after Kylin,

Ben is like the next guy I trust defensively,

which is kind of, you could look that and maybe say

that's a downside, but I think he does, he competes.

He's gotten so much better as a rebounder.

It's felt like this year making all the winning plays.

I talked about that Nebraska game,

just what, I mean, I thought he really had a big hand

in winning you that Nebraska game with, you know,

three or four big time winning plays in the second half.

And then the way Jake stepped in and what he's done

for this offense, just having another space

around the backside, he gets off the ball.

He's like the definition of a 0.5 second type of player.

And that's helped so much.

And I just don't think this Illinois team

is where they're at without the combination of those two.

I wouldn't put one or the other in that third spot,

but those two together has been, has just been incredibly valuable.

I think you're both right with Boswell as three.

I think he's, you know, that kind of player for them,

but I did want to shout those two out

because Jake was such a steady influence

through those injuries.

Andre out, he steps into the starting line up,

Kylin out, he steps into the starting line up.

And offensively, they only got better with him, right?

And then Ben just doing all those little things.

I just think everyone's kind of appreciated him this year,

which has been great to see because he has given us

always kind of moved, changed his game

to kind of suit what the team needs.

And you mentioned Mike, just steadying, connecting

and just fills a lot of the gaps

that this roster does and otherwise have.

You got anything else, Isaac, on that?

Yeah, for those two guys, I just think that like,

how many times you see them make mistakes?

I just, you don't see mistakes from them.

And I think that that type of mental fortitude

and toughness from both of those is there.

And then when you watch Illinois in person,

Jake gives them an edge that he has a swagger

that he brings to the floor.

That's a little bit different.

And I think that that has really helped them.

And then Ben, I feel like it's just so calm.

So it's like that kind of like that.

They oscillate back and forth between Jake's edge

and Ben's calmness, like just kind of feels like it's just

like almost like the perfect little splash

of something different that this group has needed

and I agree, they're not where they're at

without both those suits.

Mike, one thing like last, yesterday, you're noticing

like there's kind of just a lack of energy.

At some point, besides David Merkovich,

Jake brought some fire, some passion, Ben just brings effort.

Like the effort is always there.

So with those guys, I never have to question that.

And those guys, to me, those guys are more than just,

hey, they try hard.

Yeah.

I think the biggest superpower you can have

as a player is understanding exactly who you are

because it allows you to be your most efficient basketball

self.

And these are two guys who both Ben and Jake are top 15

in America and offensive rating.

And both Jake and Ben are top 10 nationally

in turnover percentage.

I mean, that is, if you wanted to script a role player,

that is exactly how it should be.

Don't make mistakes.

Be additive on both ends.

That's, yeah, that is insanely valuable.

All right, let's look ahead to the postseason guys.

Michael, let's you start here.

What's the reason you have most confidence

in Illinois entering the postseason?

Well, there's a couple.

I think I'm definitely confident in them

because they come into March, just like that 23, 2014,

which is a very multiple elite traits.

One, what they've been able to do offensively.

I mean, we've seen it, whether it's

Keaton and playing out of ball screens

if you want to put two on the ball,

whether it's Maryland switching yesterday

and let's go to Mirkovich and then now they're going to trap

and let's play out of it.

Let's bring Tommy up.

Let's, you know, Kylin getting down hill

as a second or third side driver.

If this, there's offense has so many different entry points

in into the paint.

And I thought that was on display yesterday.

And then the offensive rebounding, I think they just do

such a good job of winning those margins.

And that, that, when you talk about a single elimination

tournament, that gives me a lot of hope for this group.

And I actually think, I mean, they're

in a better spot defensively than that 23, 2014 was.

It's crazy.

At this juncture.

So, yeah, those are, certainly those are the reasons

why I'm most excited for March.

I would throw in the size, too.

That's something that I just, I think

it makes them almost upset proof in the first round,

especially if you're going up against 15 seeds.

It's just like, it's really hard to be the team this big.

Feels like your margin for error is really large

against mid major teams.

And then the other part about it, too,

is like, just to kind of make it dumb.

I feel like Keaton can win you two games and Murk can win you

two games.

And Andre could probably win you one game.

And so, like, when you have different guys like that that

can kind of go out and win you some of those games

with different recipes, and I like the word entry

points there, just like finding different ways to poke

at a defense, that versatility offensively

is something along with that size that very few teams

can go against.

And I think like when you've seen Illinois at its worst

this year, it's because the personnel for the other teams

are awesome.

And you're not going to have to seize

of those awesome personnel for the first two or three rounds.

And I think that gives you a real chance

to make the second weekend.

I'd be stunned if this group is in the second week,

after all things considered.

It's just the answers offensively.

Kind of kind of parodying off of you guys, Mike.

It's just that, you know, you want a double team, Keaton

Waggler, he's going to make the right decision

and somebody else is going to be open.

You want to put it in, Keaton's struggling,

he put it in the ball in, in Daven America,

if it just hands, if you're struggling to shoot,

you got to Andre Stuyakovich and Kaumbas will

attack the room, Keaton Waggler can attack the room,

just so many answers here.

Yeah, and it's what we've talked about, both points

you just mentioned.

I think, and we talked about maybe last week,

just how their ability to take care of lesser teams this year

is such a good signal for the NCAA tournament.

And so the size you mentioned, Isaac,

I had a ridden down here as well,

just really raises your floor in March.

So we'll see what happens in the big 10 tournament

that can get weird, but certainly for the NCAA tournament.

And Trader, you mentioned Stuyakovich potentially

winning them a game in March.

He's like the wing dane danger against mid major.

So I would imagine if they have a 15-2 game

or something like that, I wouldn't be surprised

if Stuyakovich poured in 23 or 24 points.

I wouldn't shock you.

I'm running with that wing dane danger,

like that's kind of perfect kind of comp,

because you don't know when you'll meet it,

but at some point you're going to need it, Mike.

Yep.

Let me give you one big 10 tournament thing here real quick,

but when you brought it up, if you lose in the big 10 tournament,

the narrative will be well we saved our legs for March,

right, if you were able to win.

If you win the big 10 tournament and then go on a run,

it's because you got hot in the big 10 tournament.

So just keep those narratives in your back pocket

if you need it, like those are your get out of jail

free cards moving forward.

Mike, I think people could hear your eyes rolling

when he said, save the legs.

So it's because there's so much recency bias in that.

I think in 2021, Illinois wins and loses the Loyola.

In 2022, Iowa wins and loses to Richmond, right?

And then in 2023, Purdue wins and loses the FU.

So this narrative gets created where it's like,

you don't want to win a single damn game

in the big 10 tournament, but when you go pre-COVID,

it is such a good signal for March success.

And you know, you look at the past couple of years,

I mean, I think what, Purdue won it,

the year they went to the title game, right?

And then Illinois, last year,

Richmond, Illinois goes to the lead eight in 24.

And so yeah, like that's, that's,

or that to me is a good, is a really good,

actually, no, it would've been 24, Purdue lost, right?

Yeah, 24 they lost because they lost to Michigan State.

That's it.

They lost to Michigan State.

They lost to Wisconsin.

It was Wisconsin, because Illinois, Wisconsin.

Yeah, yeah.

Because Wisconsin, Illinois got Wisconsin in the title game.

And then 2025, last year, was Michigan,

who went to a sweet 16, drew Auburn.

So it's, you want to win, the staff that I need confirmation on,

that I've seen over the past few days,

is it true that a foreseed in the Big 10 tournament

hasn't won a game since 2019?

Oh, wow.

Does that even matter when now we have 18 teams in?

That's my other question.

Because it's so different.

I think the point is that you'll play a hard team.

Most times at the, you're playing that next best team.

Yeah.

And that next best team likely has a win under their belt,

or someone has even more momentum beating that next best team

and then getting you.

So I would have to, I maybe leave that to the audience.

I don't know.

I saw that somewhere and it's looking back on my own.

It might be, it might be some truth to the,

I'll effort that here in a moment.

Uh, Isaac, I'll give you this biggest cause for concern for Illinois,

heading into the postseason here.

A couple of things that I noticed,

it's just like, this team can feel a little lethargic.

I think for stretches, and I don't know if I love that heading into March.

You know, I think there's times where I feel like Illinois just doesn't make teams

super uncomfortable.

And that is something that like when you,

if you start lethargic and then you are compare,

or you know, you kind of parlay that with,

you don't make teams super uncomfortable at times.

It can be like, hey, like it's middle of the first half

and teams are feeling really good about themselves.

Hey, it's early in the second half,

teams are still real feeling really good about themselves.

So those are some of the concerns I, I think moving forward.

But at the same time, like we can get into the nitty gritty of like,

oh, can this team guard against, you know, elite, you know, speedy guards

and stuff like that?

That stuff doesn't matter.

It really morphed to me kind of comes down to like,

how turned up is this group and how connected are they?

And are they playing with their hair on fire?

Because when Illinois plays with their hair on fire,

I think they can beat and play with anybody.

And when they're not tuned up like that,

I think like there's like that time where I feel like you could

maybe see some underman teams feel really, really comfortable

just because of how the defensive structure is set up.

Mike, what do you got?

Yeah, kind of the same thing.

I think at times, sometimes when I view maybe a lack of bite

or I don't know, say really a lack of effort,

but when you feel like maybe the energy isn't where you need it to be,

sometimes for this group, and this is just the reality of it.

Sometimes it's sometimes a function of what their defense is.

And so there almost needs to be even more of a concerted effort

to be more active, to be more physical, because you're just a naturally

conservative defense as it is.

Like no one watches Houston, and in the first 10 minutes of the game,

is like, man, they just don't really,

because they're always blowing up ball screens,

and they're rotating, and they're scrambling around.

So it's almost like it can fool you sometimes,

as a viewer.

I mean, I almost felt that yesterday,

when then you have to kind of check yourself and be like,

all right, what shots are they forcing?

All this, I mean, Maryland got three shots

at the rim the entire first half.

They made 71% of their mid-range shots.

They were five of seven.

They were five of 10 from above the break from three,

which is really the threes that you want to end up forcing

so that you don't get knifed and get cornered,

you know, driving kick corner threes.

So the game plan worked.

Maryland made shots, but like, there's still that next gear, I think,

for this team, even though you're in a conservative defense,

to still, and I thought Keaton did a really good job of this,

like stunning and gaps being just aggressive in gaps.

That's where it's got to be for this group,

because I will say that first line of defense in the defense,

like how you manage it, getting around screens.

I've got that story, I give it to you yesterday.

He struggled a little bit, keeping the ball in front,

the second half, just straight line drives.

You know, how they are going to go under screens,

over screens, and whatever the game plan is.

Don't be so mayor, this is going to, I mean,

if a coach hears this, they're not going to love this,

but don't be so married to the game plan.

Or I should say not the game plan, the scouting report

that you just, you kind of lose your mind in terms of like,

what is actually the most efficient way to guard on this possession.

Like if I'm Kyle and Boswell, and Diggy Coit can shoot the basketball,

if that screen set at 31 feet, probably don't have to go over,

even though Diggy Coit is a guy you want to go over on,

meet the, find him under and get the angles.

And you know, sometimes I think teams understand

that Kyle and really wants to pressure the ball at 28 to 30 feet.

And Coit got a little like flip off the glass,

or fouled, I think, on a drive late just because I thought he pressured the ball too much.

So they have to find that balance.

But I will say, for all to talk about this defense,

since February 1st, they're 23rd nationally.

And everybody's grouping Illinois and Purdue in the same bucket.

They're like, oh, they're rolling the same bucket because

Illinois and, you know, they're great offices,

offices and like, you don't trust them a lot defensively.

Purdue is in another stratosphere in deep in terms of defensive concern.

Illinois protects the rim, right?

They're shit.

Purdue's shit is crazy.

I mean, they're like, and I'm watching their staff sit there and be like,

oh my god, everywhere you don't want to help from, they help from.

It's over helping.

It's rotating too much.

And then they're not athletic enough for the size we talked about,

the Illinois team.

They're not athletic enough and have enough size to recover in those situations.

So Wisconsin just, just absolutely laces them from deep.

So, and Purdue's 73rd nationally and that same time frame.

So we're talking about two different, two different animals here.

So my concern, the only concern I have is the energy that you bring into a game,

knowing you play a conservative style of defense and just the defense overall.

That has to be really the only one or two.

I was getting thrown back to you, but Mike, how do you manufacture that then?

How do you manufacture that energy and bite?

Yeah, I just, it's not tying it to what the arena feels like.

It's not tying it to your opponent.

I thought there was a little bit of that yesterday,

where it's a, that's a big arena.

You were there, Jeremy, right?

No, it was pretty empty, yeah.

Yeah, not the best environment.

So just generating your own energy,

I think these guys are gonna be ready to go.

I really do.

I think we're ready to go in Chicago.

I think we're going to be ready to go in the NCAA tournament.

And then would you guys say that one other concern,

and I'm not concerned about it,

but it should be mentioned.

Just for how much you've relied on Keaton to this point.

I was going to break it up, Mike.

Yeah, I'm a little concerned.

I'm a little, like I'm not, I'm not concerned with his decision making.

I'm concerned with Izzy banged up because he was his back with stiff.

He's had a shoulder, he's had a hip.

Teams are being really physical with him.

I think he's frustrated with some of the non-calls.

He's just a little timid in some of these first halfs here recently.

And I just want that guy confident.

I want him taken a three when somebody sags off from three feet.

He's passing those up a little bit more,

and then they're just not going in as much.

But I loved his second half.

How aggressive he was.

He just missed some open shots,

but Izzyk, they need that guy to be special,

because him being special is what help them

on a 12 game winning streak, help them win at Nebraska and at Purdue.

Yeah, I had it in my notes too.

You have a lot riding on a freshman guard.

And I think a lot of times in March.

And I was going to say the same thing.

And their second most important offensive player is a freshman.

And so I think a lot of times in March,

you can see like some of the warts start to come in,

especially in like those short crepes,

those quick turnarounds,

like there's just a lot riding on Keaton-Woggler.

Of course, Illinois is the best version of itself in Woggler's.

Of course, Illinois is a national championship contender

because they have a first round guard,

like that opens up different avenues for you.

But I think just finding his swagger again

is something that can come back pretty quickly.

I think too, we've seen that.

You know, I think of Watson Clayton Jr. last year,

like just that little surge of confidence that he had.

And then he was walking before me and like,

hey, there is no one on the planet who can guard me.

No one.

And so I think like finding a little bit more of that,

just getting him a little bit more easier shots,

mixing in some off-ball stuff would be really, really important.

I think Kyle and Boswell's decision-making moving forward

is going to be enormous because that access is,

you know, a little bit more ways for Keaton to get some touches.

Those are just little things there

because it just does feel like there's a lot on Keaton's plate

and you just kind of wonder, like, man,

you've aced all of these tests so far,

like how much more can we realistically expect from you?

Mike, and I think it's why Kyle and this huge Tommy,

this huge David, like just other guys stepping up to fill that

if he has an off-game.

I think, though, and the way to help him is,

because there were like two or three instances yesterday.

And I will say, Illinois has really slowed their pace down.

I think we know that at this point.

That's a lot of half-core defenses you gotta go again.

Set half-core defenses every single possession.

But that can be a lot for a guy like Keaton.

And so I just wonder if there's an avenue

and it doesn't have to be just all of a sudden.

You completely change your identity.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying, you know, if there was a situation

yesterday where Kyle and got a defensive rebound

or maybe got an outlet and was out by half-core.

And to me, it looked like a clear three-on-two.

And they've just kind of been programmed to be like,

pull it out, let's get into our stuff.

And I just think there's opportunities there

to go and maybe steal a few easier buckets.

And I think that will just kind of take the pressure

and it's a number one offense in the country for a reason.

But that will take the pressure off

of having to like manufacture and manufacture

and manufacture over and over again in the half-core.

Even though they're really, really good at it.

I think just being able to recognize

when those moments are coming.

And particularly for Kyle and because Kyle and

we saw against Michigan,

like if you can get out, secondary transition,

get to the front of the rim,

I think that just takes some of the pressure off the key.

Eyes are going to give you.

Yeah, I could pitch to six of his least eight

efficient performances since that UConn game

for Keaton have come in the last eight games.

So still Illinois during that stretch,

the number five offense in the country.

But they need to be elite to make that run

because that's where they were.

So any final thoughts on this?

I think it goes back to kind of reprogramming

your brain to go away from the game plan

a little bit, sometimes too.

Just like, hey, when we have openings

and transition, like we can take those.

It's so weird to me,

like their pivot back is like

Brad, like for so long,

I feel like every press conference is like,

well, the most efficient shot is in the first eight seconds

of the shot clock.

But I could rattle that off,

like that's what it is.

And so to see them,

like kind of pull that back at times,

it's a little bit different.

You know, I think with Keaton too,

like we saw it last year with KJ,

KJ ran out of gas a little bit down the stretch.

You're going to have to have some other guys

find ways to step up.

But I still think that like Keaton,

even when he's not playing his most efficient basketball,

like he just is so wired the right way

to create such good shots

that I think Illinois's offense can still be terrific,

even if it isn't the Keaton Wogler show.

And when they get the ball moving, they're nasty.

Yeah, Mike, I still like his decision making.

I do as well,

because I think there's a world where

this team advances to a sweet 16.

And Keaton Wogler doesn't eclipse the 12 point mark

in either of those games.

Just because he's so additive

in everything else that he does,

just just having him out there

draws attention from opposing defenses.

We talked about him making the right decision,

making the right play.

You know, there's probably been

in the last eight games compared to maybe the previous eight games.

I'd say there have been more moments

than those previous eight games where I felt like,

hey, that one was maybe a little rushed

or that one was maybe a little bit forced.

And so maybe that's just a product of,

you know, a kid that's had a lot of success

being like, how far can I take this?

You know, I kind of get it from that stage.

His handle isn't a leap.

Like, we can say that.

We know that.

Like, that's a huge part of his game.

And I think that's some of the,

like the scouts are getting better.

I think the big 10 is probably the best scouting league still.

Like, they're all over that.

Like, they're all over that.

So I think as some of these gathers,

pickups have been in kind of some awkward spots lately.

And he has to find a way

to kind of get that back under control.

I said it yesterday, but one of the great things about the post season

once you pass the big 10 tournament,

you can see it's a way tournament.

You're not playing big 10 teams anymore.

So I think that's a big positive for Illinois moving forward.

I'll try to go quick through some of these.

Isaac, I'll give you to this first one.

One more big key for the one I am March.

I think it comes back to the bigs

and how well these bigs can keep shooting it from three.

I just don't think that Illinois

can be the best version of itself

without their bigs making open threes.

And like, sometimes like, especially in March,

like, big guys have a lot of a lot of like wear on the tires.

You're constantly fighting tea.

You're fighting inside.

You're fighting for rebounds.

Like, do you have the legs to make threes?

If you don't are is the offense of rebounding there.

Those are some of the kind of like the extra variables

I think about with this group.

Because I think they're going to play some teams.

If they make the sweet 16 of lead eight,

where you're going to need six to seven to eight threes

from this front line to win that game.

And can this group kind of give it to you on those nights?

I'll touch you, Mike.

You're muted, by the way.

There you go.

Thank you.

I would agree with that from Isaac.

To me, my big one is

when you come into the NCAA tournament,

when you come into postseason play,

your strengths have to remain your strengths.

I mean, this, this, this team has to be the team

that continues to pon you on the glass.

Because that is what

alleviates some of the pressure

that they have from being maybe not an elite level defense.

And it's certainly alleviates the pressure.

Just in case you have that night,

which we haven't seen that night many times offensively

for this group, but in case you have it,

and then maybe you don't have that elite stuff defensively,

you have to win on the glass.

That just, that has to travel to Chicago.

That has to travel to whatever,

you know,

first round, second round,

sweet 16, that has to travel.

Period.

All right.

We can talk about matchups.

Maybe when we get to the NCAA tournaments,

I'll skip those.

But what's a successful postseason for Illinois?

I'll give it to you, Mike, to start us off here.

I agree with Isaac.

I'm hard pressed to picture this team

not making a second weekend

because of the factors we mentioned.

I think a successful season.

If this team makes a final four, absolute.

But I'd even take it, I'd even take it another step

or not another step, maybe a step before that.

Like if this team gets to an elite eight

and that elite eight game,

you leave it and you're like,

God damn, play to a one seed,

thought our asses off,

were right there,

had it down the strat,

or something to that degree.

You're complaining about officials after the game.

Like that's probably got officials or like,

why didn't we make this one adjustment?

Like that is, that would be a success in my eyes too.

What can't happen is

certainly a loss before the second weekend.

That can't happen.

But even if you get to the second weekend,

whether it be in the sweet 16,

whether it be in the elite eight,

you cannot have this Yukon let go of the rope moment.

Like that cannot happen.

That cannot be the way this season ends for this group,

where it's like,

I won't go as far to say 30-year-old run.

But that type of effort to close it out.

Like I just want to feel like wherever this team ends up,

that when they finish this thing out,

and anyway,

that you're proud of the way they competed,

and that they finished it.

Yeah, the Michigan game.

Like that would be disappointing.

Like if you had that kind of performance again,

Isaac, how about you?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Make the elite eight,

have a really, really competitive type of game

against an elite elite team.

Now, I would even pull that back at times too.

Matchups are weird.

Like I think you could see a sweet 16,

where you will go up against a three seed like Alabama,

and it's 97-94,

and they made 13-3s,

and you made 11 and you lost.

Like, is that a disappointing season?

I would have a hard time doing it.

I maybe would understand if other people would be disappointed.

If you make the sweet 16 and don't advance in a tight game like that,

but I still think just putting yourself in position

to be on the margins of making the final four.

Like that is the expectation for this group.

All the analytics point to this group being able

to be in position, to be in position,

to make the final four.

Like that's just what they point to.

And you have to go out and play like that

for it to be a successful postseason.

I would add, get a win in the Big Ten tournament.

Like Beat Wisconsin,

make sure you wrap up that two seed.

I think that would be helpful too.

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All right, let's jump to the Big 10 boys.

Michigan's a story of the season this year.

I think you actually went aboard.

On Tuesday, it'll probably be Big 10 player of the year.

Fred Hoyberg might win Big 10 coach of the year.

I think it should be Dusty May.

What a season.

This is one of the best teams I have seen

in my time covering the Big 10.

So I'll give it to you, Mike.

Michigan is the best team

in the Big 10 since when.

So the way I look at this is always how I look at.

You almost got to go by era

because in relative dominance.

I thought they were obviously very dominant.

Just like that Wisconsin team was in 2015.

And I think Jeremy, you and I talked about

Wisconsin was perfectly at this intersection

of five out basketball and had a hub

in Frank Kaminsky.

And they could all pretty much dribble past shoot.

And so it made them really difficult to prepare for.

And on the on the same side here, it's like

with the new wave of these jumbo lineups

that a lot of these you look at Florida last year

in Auburn playing two bigs.

Sometimes playing three bigs

can be really hard to prepare for.

And I think that's where Michigan's at this year.

And they caught they caught a league this year

that I think knows that's where college

basketball is trending.

And they were just still a cut above the rest.

So I they I throw that Wisconsin team in there.

You know, it's interesting to 2013.

My freshman year.

That Michigan team was really freaking good.

They finished fifth in the Big 10.

It went to the national championship.

The big 10 was nuts that year.

And then those are those are the two that I can think of over the last.

You know, and produced, I mean,

the Purdue ED teams were certainly dominant.

They're up there.

But I just think about the era

and how much ahead of the curve Wisconsin was.

And I feel like Wisconsin, Michigan's in that same category.

Yeah, the teams that I was thinking of

was that Purdue team with ED where it just felt like

it just felt like, well, how many ifs have to go right free?

Well, if we make 11 threes and if, you know,

Coleman Hawkins on the floor can stretch them out

and hit three or four of those threes.

And if we could maybe get them in foul trouble,

maybe then you have a chance to win.

Like they just felt almost inevitable.

That's kind of how I feel like.

But Michigan's just like, you have so many ifs

that need to go right for you to win that type of game

against a team that has built up such a huge margin for error.

The other one too was like, this is way back

and early in my like Big 10 viewing experience.

But I just remember those early 07 Ohio State teams.

Yeah, like that team was crazy with Mike Conley

and obviously Greg Odin.

But yeah, and that's the type of group that Michigan

has put themselves into.

And remember, like they were 11th and Ken Pom at the preseason

and they barely beat TCU and barely beat Wake Forest.

So they're margin of improvement from November

to what they were in November and all the way through

the rest of the season is crazy.

And to be the first Big 10 team to not lose a road game

since 1975, 76th Indiana is bonkers.

Yeah, I think if you're going since the 0405 Alana,

it got to the national title.

Some of those Michigan teams, I love John Beoyens teams,

but they weren't as dominant as Wisconsin in 2015

as Purdue a couple years ago.

So I think it's up with that group of teams.

And you know, Purdue was so one player heavy

that it just feels like this is more of like a team effort.

I mean, Braden was obviously very good,

but it all centered around one of the greatest college basketball

players we've ever seen and nearly as most dominant in Zach

Edie, but that Wisconsin team in this Michigan team.

Mike, just the way they do things,

and the way they impose themselves on a poem,

it's those of the two that really stick out to me.

And Ohio State too, but those guys were so much freshman.

And this is a little bit more balance and veteran heavy.

Mike.

Well, there's so, you know, the thing about,

hold on, hold on.

Got a cap.

Go to Isaac, go to Isaac.

Isaac, yeah, the final thoughts on that.

Yeah, the one thing I think too about Michigan

that's kind of underrated is just like how many outs

that they have, I brought it up with Illinois earlier,

but I love that part about their team.

It's like, one, you know, when Kasin was healthy,

Kasin could go win you a game,

and then sometimes Trey McKenny could go in,

and then it's a Marez day, and then it's a Mara day,

and then it's a Yaxx doing Yaxx things,

and the whole nine yards.

Like that's, I think the secret sauce with them is that like,

yes, their three point shooting isn't good enough some nights.

And yes, their turnover rate is something that they are

going to frustrate with, be frustrated with at nights.

But their other strengths are so stinking dominant

that it doesn't even matter.

Like that's the beauty of the Dusty May Empire.

All right, Mike's done hurting Kas.

What do you got Mike?

Yep.

I just, I use the word airtight.

They're just, they're so airtight.

And I always think about it whenever I look at a team

like this, I think back to when I was at Illinois

and we prepared for teams.

And a lot of times I was on the scout team,

and I'm like, I don't know how you have a Michigan scout team.

Yeah, because, and I think Illinois is the same,

Illinois is the same thing from the standpoint of like,

you can maybe try to do this whole scout team

on how they play offensively.

But until you're in it, it's just different.

And same thing with Michigan, like the switching defensively,

yaks was such a high level communicator.

And then as an anger with Mara, like, it's just the,

and I think they've also, and I think I mentioned this

a few months ago, but it's still true.

I think they've entered such a psychological realm

on their opponents where, I think I made the correlation of,

it's like when, you know, when Aaron Rogers

or Mahomes or Brady throws a pass like,

maybe you had one misread and threw it directly to a safety

or threw it directly to a defensive back.

And it just, the defensive back catches it

9.9 times out of 10.

But on that one, they dropped it

because they weren't expecting Rogers or Brady

or those guys to throw a pass like that.

So they weren't mentally ready.

The same kind of thing is like with Michigan,

where just the thought of them alone,

teams just start acting different when they get in the paint.

It may not, Mara might not be in the vicinity,

but you're missing layups, you wouldn't usually miss,

you're rushing shots, you wouldn't usually rush.

So the elite dominant teams enter that stratosphere

where it's like, we're already good as is.

And now you got this whole other mental game

that you got to overcome too when you're playing with us.

All right, other than Michigan, the big 10 team

goes so I could make a final four, Isaac is who.

I think it's actually Illinois.

If you talk to rival big 10 coaches,

they're more scared of Illinois than Michigan,

some nights as well, it's as weird as that sounds.

Now granted, not all assistant coaches are correct

on everything that they're supposed to say.

I was gonna say that is weird.

It's weird, like it's happened at multiple times

where they're like, and the reason why they go for it

is it's like, well, they're just so big.

And then they have so many guys who can score.

And that's like, I think the biggest concern,

I think when you're trying to face against this elite team,

like other coaches, and Mike has mentioned it too,

they're obsessed with David Mirkovich.

Like they think that that guy is awesome.

Then you throw in the waglers,

and then you throw in the story of it,

and then you throw in the abusive boys.

That's where I think the correct answer is Illinois.

But I will say this, I love how Michigan State

is playing right now.

I think they are super dialed in

with their scouting reports right now.

I think that their continuity,

and like the lineups that they wanna play,

has really started to showcase lately.

Curtang is playing his best basketball this season.

Jordan Scott has helped them.

Jackson Colors kind of like, you know,

kind of tossed off some of the mid seasons, you know,

struggles that he had had a little bit.

And then Fierce and Carson Cooper

have been just super steady for them.

So I think Michigan State, if they're on that two line

and they can stay there, they can certainly make

the final four, because their strengths travel every night.

And I just really like where that team is trending.

Isaac, I was gonna say Michigan State

just because I know what I'm getting every night.

Every night from them, shooting struggles, sure,

doesn't matter.

Hey, Tom, is those teams do what they do?

They crash the boards at plates of defense and energy

and enthusiasm is never a question with them.

Nasty in transition to co-ed guard transition.

Oh, my lord.

Mike, you got anything?

Yeah, I'll add to Michigan State,

because I do agree with Trotter, I think.

Illinois, if I had to pick a second team, it would be Illinois.

But I do think with Michigan State,

you know, shooting, they're almost

36% from three this year.

But the shooting is solid.

They don't, I mean, they don't take a ton of them,

but the shooting is solid.

Like, I don't even, I think I've gotten to the point

as the season's gone on, where I was really concerned

that they didn't have like a secondary creator

or something, but I think fears is good enough

for two creators.

I really do.

And I think they, they don't get bogged down

in the half court a ton.

I mean, they still do, but they really understand

that because there are limitations for them offensively,

that they do need to run,

and they do need to try to find better opportunities

in transition.

So, yeah, I mean, you could definitely see,

I thought they were a little outmatched against Auburn last year.

So, if Michigan State gets on the two line,

if there's a one that gets upset in the sweet 16,

like, I think Michigan State could put

whatever team meets them in the lead-A

into the freaking grinder.

And if you look at some of the advanced analytics,

Michigan State has played up to competition

better than any other team in the Big Ten.

And that kind of checks out eye test

so I was like, they had to like,

dead rights multiple times too.

So, yeah, that's a, that's a team

that I feel a lot better about now

than I did six weeks ago.

All right, come more quick ones.

Biggest surprise success in the Big Ten, Michael, two up is two.

I'm not sure it's close.

Like, honestly, Michigan's level of dominance.

I think we all thought they'd be really good.

This was like, you know, 19 and one

and being integrated by 40 was,

especially how the season started.

You know, you brush with death against TCU,

against Wake Forest, and all of a sudden it's like,

oh, wow, they're just like one of the best teams

we've ever seen.

It's Nebraska.

And it's just, to me, it's not close.

Surprise success, right?

Yes.

Nebraska, yeah, it's, I think the level

of play that they've gotten out of Price Samford,

I think it's played like a, no doubt,

first team all big 10 type of player.

I think the continuity was, was obviously big,

but seeing that, you know, with your Marcus Lawrence coming back,

the, the role, like, what Sam Hoyberg has turned into

has been pretty incredible.

And then you've done it all with, I think,

Rink Mask, not, like, Rink Mask is not,

I don't think anyone would be like,

that is their best player.

And I think we thought that would probably be the case

coming in the year.

But he's a lot of times been their third best guy

behind Samford and Freiger.

So it's got to be, to me, it's got to be Nebraska.

For that group right there, for the last,

look at all the teams that have top 10 defense.

And they're a bunch of athletic freaks.

And like high floor athletic freaks,

it's the fifth ranked defense in America.

And they are certainly not the most physically imposing groups.

That, to me, that's, that's the biggest surprise.

And none of it is three point variants.

Like the, the type of shots that they are forcing.

Yeah, it's a lot of threes.

And yeah, teams don't shoot threes.

But they are forcing Aetana contested shots.

I think low quality.

It's low quality.

I think Sam Hoyberg is a legit first

Seamall defense guy in the Big Ten.

I think Berk Dei by Euktencell has been really good

defensively for them as well with some of his length

and activity in size.

But I think the whole season and why they're such a big,

you know, unbelievable story is the price,

Sanford Eval.

That was a guy that they absolutely nailed that Eval.

And they've gotten the best version out of him.

And he has turned himself into one heck of a player.

You know, we, I'm part of the portal ranking teams with 247.

We totally whipped on that.

We had it as he was in the top 150.

But out of Iowa guys, we had Josh Dix ahead of him.

And we had Owen Freeman ahead of him.

Looking back, Dix, I would still rank ahead of Sanford.

But Sanford's been a better player than Josh Dix

so far this year.

Sure.

All right, flip side of that biggest disappointment

in the Big Ten.

Isaac, there's a few.

A lot for me, I actually look at Washington.

That was a roster that was stacked with talent.

Just stacked.

You know, you, you think you get a hit

in Hanna Steinbach who has had one of the most productive

seasons we've seen from a freshman Big Man in Big Ten history.

But Desmond Claude getting in the Desmond Claude business

was a mistake.

Wesley Yates getting hurt a lot was a frustration point of it.

I didn't think their roster ever really meshed together.

They looked, every time I watch Washington,

they look discombobulated.

And it's a group that is one of the more higher paid

rosters in the Big Ten.

And they are finishing.

Let me check.

They've finished below Minnesota.

Great work.

Like that, even with all the injuries,

that just cannot happen.

Michael, yeah.

I watched him was up there for me,

but I'll stick in the Pacific Northwest.

It's Oregon for me.

I just think when we talked about having outs,

this Oregon team had no outs once Shell Stead went down.

And so that's, you know, they certainly went to the portal.

They tried to get a little bit more athletic.

But the problem is you left yourself a really slim margin

for error because one Shell Stead went down.

I mean, this thing just, and really kind of when he was there,

but when he went down, this thing went completely off the rail.

So who knows, this could be the last year for,

for Dana Altman, whether it's retirement or, or elsewhere,

but they may need, they may need a little bit new life

over there in that, over there in Eugene.

Okay, I'm going to make the case for a team's

just on a way different tier.

Could we put Purdue in this mix?

Number one, number one, three season team.

I know they're probably going to be in over three seed

in the NCAA tournament, but they just finished six

in the Big Ten.

They have five losses at Mackie.

This year, and this team, like, since the mid-January,

when UCLA, they went to UCLA,

like this team has just not looked right.

They are six and seven since then.

Just so heading into March Madness.

This was like the number one team

of the country, final four contender,

and Braden Smith has not had the year.

We thought he would have, Drake Oppen-Ren has not had the year.

We thought they would have, I mean,

this team returned four of five starters, right,

from last year.

So Mike, it's just a weird team.

Like, I know they started off grade 17 and one.

That's going to get them to a three seed,

maybe a four seed if they don't win

in the Big Ten tournament.

But that's a huge disappointment

before we expect it out of that team.

Huge.

I mean, I think if you asked Purdue fans,

they'd probably say that that Purdue

has been the biggest disappointment,

just relative to what the expectations were.

So the defense, I mean, you watch that Wisconsin game,

and they just relentlessly,

you know, once they got to switch

that led to having a lawyer in club

for lawyer in Jacobson or Meyer in Jacobson

or Meyer in club in action,

like they just bludgeoned it.

And so, I also think with Mackie,

there's, to me, there's something to be said

about this new portal era.

I just think like, people aren't really afraid

of Mackie anymore, and I don't even think

it's like we don't respect you.

They just kind of, whether it's

the international guys coming in to this league

or something like, they don't know how Mackie.

Like to them, it's just, it's obviously a great environment,

but they don't know about it from the standpoint of like,

having a senior in a junior

to tell the sophomore in the freshman like,

man, when you go in there,

that's always half the bat.

That's always like half the mystique

is like being told by someone else who lost there by 15 or 20.

Like that game just got out of hand

when we went in there, like the crowds a lot.

I mean, I watch Nick Boyd go in there,

I watch Keaton go in there,

like these guys, they don't view home court like that.

I'm a flip side of that.

I think people view State Farm Center the same way,

to a degree.

So I don't know.

I mean, there's certain venues in college basketball

that maybe are tougher to play at than others,

but I think with all the mobility in college basketball,

I don't think it, I don't think it means

as much to the players in terms of like,

where they're going into and how hard it is to play there.

One extra point with Purdue that I just think a lot about

sometimes is like, this was a 13 and seven big 10 team

that brought back four or five starters

and finished 13 and seven.

So maybe they are who we thought they were.

Like that's something that I've thought about with them,

or maybe they are who they were.

And we just kind of hyped it up

because we love retention amid this era of portal

and everything.

Like, so those are some things I think about,

miscalculations with that Purdue team,

I think in the offseason are certainly rounding into form.

The lack of perimeter defenders that they trust is huge.

I don't think they have great wing athletes,

losing Cam Heidi, this is kind of a big loss for them now.

Losing Miles Colvin turned out to be a big loss for them

and Daniel Jacobson didn't have the red shirt freshman year

that they expected.

The other thing too though, like,

I don't want to maybe blame the margins for that.

I firmly, and maybe I'm a, you know, a Bradence Smith fan,

but like, or super fan, but I put a lot of this

on Fletcher lawyer and trick off and read.

I think both of those pseududes did not help them

enough this year.

And honestly, at times it felt like their veterans

let them down more than some of the complimentary guys.

And that's probably why Purdue

isn't the bully of the big time.

I think the assessment of the complimentary guys

is why we're at, we're at right now.

Like I think, and I talked about this back

and you know this, Trotter, the, the Omer Meyer hype,

because he went off in U19.

It's just, I think everybody's bait

was baking Omer Meyer into the equation.

They're baking Daniel Jacobson into the equation.

Why wasn't really high on either?

And part of that is, you know,

it was almost like a Ben Hummerick out situation

with Jacobson.

Now, Jacobson's been not very good.

Ben has been, since Ben has come to Illinois,

Ben has been better than Jacobson

because he just knows the role that needs to play.

But there were some like split, split graphic,

side by side graphics of like,

this is how Edie starters career.

And this is how Jacobson started.

Like that's not fair at all.

Cause he is, I mean, Jacobson isn't in the,

the same stratosphere.

Exactly.

He is one of the most dominant players

in college basketball.

Like, oh, we got, we got one of the best

college basketball point cards.

We got Fletcher lawyer, we got Trick Off and Ren.

And then we got this seven for four guy.

And even the club thing,

I mean, I talked about club before the season two,

like you got a grade club on the Washington state scale,

not on the South Dakota state scale.

That's, that's more of what you're getting in club.

And I just think they, you know,

they had a good year last year.

And then when the new pieces came in,

it's like, whoa, we get taken to this,

oh, there's this next level.

And that's just, I don't really think

that was ever the case with,

with those particular complimentary parts.

And then, you know,

some of the braiding stuff has been weird this year.

All of it.

All of those top three guys.

Those top three guys, it's been weird.

It's just weird.

I get what you're saying.

But like, at the same time,

if I told you in the preseason that

Braden Smith would go 15, nine and three,

shoot 39% from three, 50% on two,

83% of the line with a 43% assist rate,

I think we'd all be like, yeah, first team all American.

Yeah, I know some people didn't have

first team all big,

I still had them first team all big.

It's just the dynamic was weird.

They did not seem like they were having fun.

Like they just don't seem like they're having fun right now.

No, and you could see in post game interviews,

like even after getting wins, it was kind of just,

but what's funny is,

when things started to go really south for them,

I actually thought,

Traykov and Ren was like their hardest playing guy now.

I don't know where.

He was just started rebounding at a high level again

and getting after it defensively,

even though he's very limited on that side.

And then, so it felt like they were never really

on the same page.

And I know Braden,

I'm not saying Braden's like hunting assists,

but there is a record that's in reach for him

and there's times where I feel like he needs to be,

like I think Braden Smith should take

at least 15 field goal attempts again.

Be like, be aggressive from the standpoint of like,

man, I got almost thing,

Braden Smith's coming off every screen to score.

And then from there, he can dime dudes up.

Like I feel like he's,

and it's what good point guards do,

trying to get everybody involved in everything,

but they don't have enough around him

for him not to be like, all right, man.

It's me and if it's not me,

then I'm getting, I'm setting the table.

All right, let's move through these last two quick

and then we'll do our big 10 tournament draft.

Program that needs a coaching change

most in the big 10, who you got Isaac?

Penn State, I think that Penn State

feels like a pretty dire program right now.

Huge buyout too for Mike Rhodes.

So I think they're kind of like in it

and it just is what it is.

That group, they feel like miles away

from competing in this league,

especially the super conference era.

And it's, man, two good coaches before that, right?

Like they had two pretty good coaches

that had at least a relative level of success.

Mike, who you got?

I think I agree with Penn State,

but there's also a part of me where like,

I feel like who they hire next, it just doesn't matter.

Just, yeah, it just, I feel like it's going to be

a lot of the same.

And it, I think Shrewsbury,

that's like what they did with that 2023 team.

That feels like peak, peak, yes.

Penn State basketball.

It's Oregon for me.

I just think there's so much there from a resource standpoint.

There's so much there from a branding standpoint

that I just, I really feel like someone can come in there

and turn that program into a program

that we're actually factoring into

towards the top of the big 10,

because it just hasn't been that the last few years.

Yeah, I think it's time.

He had a great run.

Yeah, I just think it's time.

And I think it's right now,

Isaac would be the best job on the market

if Oregon opened up.

I agree with that because especially Ohio State

looks like it's probably not going to open up.

Now that Jake Debler has played its way

into the NCAA tournament.

So yeah, Oregon is the one dynamic,

one dynamic there with that is that yeah,

you're an Nike school in Oregon,

but there are a few other Nike schools

that head of you in the pecking order for basketball.

So that's one extra factor at Oregon.

But yeah, no question.

I think there's a lot of really good coaches

that are at major jobs that would crawl through

the glass to coach at Oregon.

Let's go mic program.

Most ready to take a big leap in the big 10 next season.

I mean, I think I said in Nebraska

like two, three years ago.

So I'm feeling really good about that.

But if I take a big leap,

Minnesota, I think it's Minnesota.

And big leap for them would be,

are you a surefire NCAA tournament

next tournament team next year

with aspirations of maybe getting into a second weekend?

I think Nico Medved is an unbelievable coach.

And I think there, you could see the environment

coming back a little bit this year.

You could see just the, I just love the way they play.

I know they got their doors blown off by Indiana

a couple of days ago.

But I just, I love where that's trending.

Whereas some of these other schools

that are in the middle towards the bottom,

I don't like where that's trending.

Minnesota was the one that I had written down to,

a simple analysis here.

But once Nico Medved gets a roster

with more than four high major players,

I think that they're gonna be probably be pretty good.

So that is certainly one thing there.

And then I think the other one too is,

you know, I'm curious about Iowa.

I think that if they can get the right,

a little bit added personnel there,

there's a chance for them to be good.

They've been around the doorstep of being good this year,

but they're right now they're kind of a middle of the pack team,

but we'll see the type of personnel

that they can get in there.

I like some of the young guys that they have.

I think take stage is a really, really good player.

I think keep some of the younger guys there

and then add in, you know, splash from the portal

at the lead guard spot and kind of trust your development.

I think you could see Iowa finishing

near the top of the league again.

It's kind of interesting.

There was three new hires all finished right in a row.

Iowa 10 and 10, Indiana 9 and 11, Minnesota 8 and 12.

I think your Iowa, you feel great

because outside of Bennett starts,

I don't know about that roster, right?

So I think the coaching was really, really good.

Minnesota, they were just flirting with more upsets

throughout the year playing above their weight.

Indiana's the one where I'm like, eh,

it's kind of the same thing.

Spent a lot of money.

roster was not that great.

Isaac Omar Wilkerson, huge hit

with the rest of it and that great.

Yeah, I think that the decision to go small

in this era of the big 10 was not wise.

They chose to go small and that obviously did not work out well.

They also need more juice at the point guard spot.

There's multiple times where I felt like their point guard play

just was not at the level of this league this year.

It's been a win when there's just so many awesome guards.

And so Indiana has some really good recruits on the doorstep.

Like a couple of guys that I've really liked

in my limited time watching high school basketball.

But we'll kind of see what they can get going.

I think they've reached a good coach,

but yeah, I feel like no question

like this year's a major disappointment even

if they find a way to sneak their way

into the worst bubble of all time.

I think I agree.

Yeah, no notes.

That's I agree there.

All right, let's get to our big 10 tournament draft

and we'll get you guys the heck out of here.

But here's how we do it.

We do a draft.

We pick one team, go through it, snake order.

And for every win, you get a point.

Just a fun way to kind of break down

who we think is actually going to get wins

in this big 10 tournament.

So the bracket up live on our YouTube here right now.

Isaac, I'm going to give you the first pick.

I'll take second, Mike, you get the turn,

which I think is probably the best place to be.

So we'll honor you with that.

All right, let's get going.

Isaac Trotter, first pick in the big 10 tournament draft

who you got.

So after disparaging them, I will now take Purdue

because I like the draw.

I think that if they get Indiana in their first game

that they can win that one, I think they match up.

Just fine with Nebraska.

And then they have a chance, again, against a Michigan state.

They kind of avoid the Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin,

kind of trio there.

So I think Purdue soul searching for that group.

And if they can find it again a little bit,

I think they have a path here to reel off two or three

in this tournament.

I don't hate it because usually it's like,

who's the most motivated?

I think Purdue should have a lot of motivation

going into this tournament.

I'm not going to overthink this.

I'm taking the best team Michigan.

I'm taking them number two.

I just think they're a tough matchup.

I think they're motivated.

That looks like a team that wants to win everything.

That is in front of it right now.

So not going to overthink it.

Went with the Wolverines.

All right, Mike, you got the turn back to back picks here.

I see.

I disagreed with you, Jeremy, because I

think the turn kind of sucks right now.

Oh, really?

Yeah, because I think Wisconsin's playing so well.

You see LA's playing so well.

So taking Illinois or taking Michigan state feels kind of tough.

It's like, my mind is drifting towards Northwestern,

thinking that they could get two wins.

I think they could be Penn State and be Washington.

So I'll maybe table that.

Give me, you know what?

I hate this.

I love this, but I hate this.

Give me Michigan State.

I was going to say that's why I liked that turn.

I thought Michigan State's going to pick there.

And give me Illinois.

Look at you.

Why could be your big 10 championship game matchup right there?

Why Illinois?

It's a nice CVS.

Why Illinois?

I just think I actually, that game against Wisconsin,

Wisconsin had no business winning that game.

I just think, you know, I think they'll

be better prepared this time around with Kyle and Boswell

on the floor to guard the likes of.

And I do think the Nolan Winter injury at some point.

And we'll see what happens with it.

I think at some point that's going to catch up to them

a little bit.

It's just a made I just, I don't believe that Billy Auskis

and rap can shoot like this in big games every single time,

but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I don't hate this draw for Illinois

because this should be the most motivated.

They will be against these two teams.

Some get back.

You get a revenge game.

You get a revenge game in the tournament, yeah.

Potentially two of them.

All right, number five.

I'm going to go with Iowa.

I like them against Maryland and Oregon.

And then potentially against Iowa State.

I just think they're so disappointed what they do.

They'll kind of grind those games out.

They could lose the first game to Maryland.

Because I think Maryland's feeling good about itself,

but I like those first two matches.

So I'm going to go Iowa there.

Isaac, you get two picks in a row here.

Good pick.

I was going to go Iowa too.

I'll go UCLA, even though I don't trust them

in the central standard time zone.

But they are playing really well right now.

I think they found their identity.

They've actually pivoted to the lineup

that I always wanted them to play with Savior Booker

coming off the bench and going three guards

to build it out and daily up front.

So that's a win, I think, in the first round,

even if they get Minnesota.

Then next, man, this is tough.

Ohio State's been playing a little bit better lately.

I don't know if I can really go there

when they have to walk into Michigan.

That's a terrible matchup for them.

So I will go with Northwestern.

I think that there is a path for them

to reel off a couple in a row.

That's a group that I still like how they're playing.

I think their young guys are keepers.

No doubt.

All right, so we haven't picked Wisconsin yet

as the five seed, even though they will get

a good team there early and potentially Illinois.

So that's a team that I'm considering.

Nebraska is the two seed in this turn,

or three seed, two seed.

Two seed in this tournament.

We haven't picked them quite yet.

But I'm gonna go with a team we just talked about, Minnesota.

Minnesota has Rutgers in the first game.

I love that matchup for them.

And then UCLA, the second round.

You just mentioned the central time zone there, Isaac.

So I'm gonna go with Minnesota and a favorite there.

So back to back for me of Iowa and Minnesota.

Not the most talented teams, but I like the draw.

Well coach, Mike, you're last two picks here.

Yeah, lesson learned.

Don't tip your hands and give your strategy

why you want to pick Northwestern and then not pick them.

So disappointing, but good on you, Trotter.

I will go, I just feel like I'm going,

I'm going with all the big dogs.

Big dogs got to eat.

Give me Nebraska, give me Nebraska.

Motivated, should be motivated.

I mean, that program wants to win this as bad as anybody.

Yes, absolutely.

Good pick, you got one more, Mike.

Um, let's go.

No, no one picked Indiana, right?

No.

All right, I'm gonna go Indiana.

They get either Northwestern Penn State that first game

and then potentially match up Purdue.

That'd be a fun atmosphere on Thursday, Indiana against Purdue.

Trotter, um, you got one more pick, but I got first,

I got Michigan, Iowa and Minnesota.

By the way, Mike wraps up with Michigan State Illinois

to Nebraska three of the top four seeds there

and Indiana, the home state team.

I have Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota.

I will wrap up with Wisconsin

because I do think they'll win their first game.

I think it'll be against Washington.

And then Illinois, probably a toss up game.

And they're one of the few teams that has beaten Michigan

this year, so I will go with Wisconsin.

Isaac, your aspect, who you want?

Um, I'll take, I'll take Washington.

You know, I think USC is a little bit, um,

just snake bitten right now.

Chad Baker, Missouri is obviously gone.

Washington should be able to win that first game.

And then, you know, if they get Wisconsin

in that second round game, I'm just hoping and praying

that all of the Wisconsin bigs don't make every single three.

And so, uh, maybe Washington's a guard plate

and can kind of hold serve there.

Because at the same time, like Yates and Zoom Diallo,

like for all of the issues they play hard

and Steinbach against that Wisconsin front line,

I think you can certainly give them issues.

So maybe the pathway to two.

Yeah.

So the teams we didn't take, six of them.

Penn State, Maryland, Oregon,

didn't have enough confidence in either

who seems against each other.

USC, Rutgers and Ohio State.