Ep. 1171: Shawn Windsor on MSU football and the Michigan-WMU clock fiasco; plus CFB and NFL picks

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1:57Please like and subscribe to the Couch in the Rube YouTube channel. Also download podcast episodes wherever you get your podcasts. For sponsorship opportunities, email Jason at couchandtheRube.com. What do you get when you cross a know-it-all newspaper columnist with an awkward, unsophisticated, every man? Yeah, well I'm just not sure about that right now. Welcome to Couch in the Rube, our Wednesday show presented by our friends at Front 43

3:06Neighborhood Pub in Caskin Company Kitchen and Bar, the original Couch in the Rube sponsor, because they were a perfect fit for us. And if you're looking for a place to watch Michigan State football to watch, pick ten football to watch college football to watch the US open. Maybe not till 3.30 in the morning, but they're open a while. Go to Front 43 in Caskin Company, no better place to just post up at a bar, talk to a friend, have a great meal, a good drink. And it's also a great place for a date night. If you want to make a reservation, go to CaskinCompany.com. They've got happy hour specials, they've got MSU game day specials, just an outstanding place, two distinct places, Front 43 Neighborhood Pub in Caskin Company, one great menu, Jason how you doing brother? Right now you're stuttering or I'm not picking it up because it's a well well well, what so? That's the taint. Jason, do you think that Bill Beakman? Let's go green, go God. What's up buddy? How you doing man?

4:07I'm great refreshed. Well, yeah I feel it, I feel it, you know, feeling good. Yeah, I was up early watching from tennis. Were you excited? Or do you get excited when, because like I saw that and I was like, wow, there is no way I would have stayed up that late, but for you in this whole new world that you live in. Like if you didn't have Kora, would you have woken up? I would have stayed up with that. I would have stayed up. So instead I woke up. Yeah. So I'm on the other end of the story. So you missed a lot of it woke up for the best part. Yeah, I recorded it and I'll watch some of it. Get a crush tape? Yeah, I like tennis. Yeah, I want you to watch it on the treadmill a little bit, you know. What do you watch for though? I just like those two players, I'm not going to do it for like every match, but those two players I like the shot making. I just want to see. Okay. And I'll fast forward. I get that, but then I think about doing some of those things. I'm like, I'll go back and watch some of that stuff. No, I'll do it. But you know, let's say I had clips. So there were some YouTube channel that just showed you like the point, the winning points and stuff like that, because that would be easier than going back and watching the whole match over again. So the first time she woke up, it was, it were in the third set.

5:11And I got to keep, I got to keep sleeping. Okay. Then I see it's going to the fifth and I'm just excited. I'm like, perfect timing, core. Let's go downstairs. And so we bounced down the stairwell and she gets a bottle with her swaddle and I get tennis. Now is the wife a light sleeper or is she in a room where she can't hear anything? So you can kind of walk around. You don't have to. We have so much. No, she wears earplugs. One of us is wearing earplugs at all times. So the first half of the night I wear earplugs and then it's my baby. It's like my airplane, you know, my baby. And then she wears earplugs the second half of the night and I take it over. And we have so many like the white noise machines you do for a baby to try to get her not to hear like creaky floors and other sounds. Our room is like sounds like a plane engine right now. You can't hear anything. It's just, it's black out curtains just about in plane engine noise. It's a great place for your fire. Yes. All the stuff. It's a whole different world than we used to. We used to. Because when you have a hundred year old house, our house is built in 1922.

6:14Every time you're trying not to have the floor creak when you're trying to step away from her bassinet, it makes the loudest sound ever. Like, yeah, come on, how is don't do that? Not now. I'm not exactly light. You know, it's the chairs in the show. It found out. You definitely look like you walk on the balls of your feet. You're out on the front. Yeah. I walk however I have to to not make a sound. That's what I do. So we've got what I think is going to be a fun show today. Sean Windsor is going to join us. We're going to talk some, I miss you football, some Michigan football, Michigan Western, Michigan controversy, all that good stuff. At the end of it too, we're going to have Sean Berkel. The Andrew Berkel, Sean Windsor and Andrew Berkel, also from the free press and talked about the new venture they have going on there at the free press with Sean and Andrew. And the new venture. New venture. Yeah. Interesting. And then we're going to pick some games. First time going into the season, we'll do the listener picks as well.

7:15I'll tweet those out. I have to get Eric Schultz ready to see even fire him up again. He's up for it. We need air shulks. We need someone. We need Harry. We need someone to come in and help us with these picks. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Maybe by halfway through the season. I know that we're going to have Harry with us this year. That's, I know. It's too bad. We really enjoyed our runoff, Harry. But speaking of Harry and his hatred of Bill Simmons, but that match last night made me think of it because I did, you know, as the football season is upon us now and Bill is back doing his cousin, Sal, guess the lines. And I got to say, I'm trying to support my buddy. I know Harry hates Bill Simmons, but I still, I followed Bill Simmons like from the early 2000s. So it's just kind of a staple for me. So sorry, sorry, Harry that I'm talking about Bill Simmons, but he did mention that he just thinks tennis is too long and I absolutely, I do not watch as much as you do. I do like to tune in, but a match like last night, that's an absolute no go. So I do agree with Bill. So last night was a start time problem. It's not a length problem.

8:15Like there are very few matches where something that good, you don't want less of. Like I used to make the argument. More than half hours though. So when they, when they, when they cut college football down by having the clock running all that stuff, my original thought was, why do we want less of this, right? Now, I, as I've gotten older, I don't want four hour games. And in your right, in most situations, I don't want a four and a half hour tennis match. But when you give me a great Alcarez center match, if you give me a great Alcarez Shelton match like last night, if you give me that sort of theater where set by set, you don't know where it's going to go and twist in turns, I'm okay with it. I am. Now you, it is a long match. It is a commitment. And I'm not saying it's, it's, it's for everybody. Maybe it's not, but you have to have the five setters in majors, I think. It's what separates the majors, it's what makes them different. It's what, it's what makes the sport so grueling is your willingness to suffer and, and, and, and just you're out there by yourself. As if you were, or players, no, as, well think about the match with, uh, Michaelson and, uh, and Tiafoh earlier than when five sets.

9:17I mean, part of the US opens problems yesterday is every match they had went the maximum amount of sets. And so that's a scheduling issue and part of the problems they don't use multiple courts and they probably should or they should start a little earlier and they could, because you had the first women's match between Naskava and Savalinko go three sets. Then you have Tiafoh's match go, uh, five sets and then you have the next women's match, Pagula and Embernavaro go three sets and then you have the, the late match and start to 11 p.m. Because of all it. So you got the maximum, ten sets or sorry, uh, what's the math? Six plus sixteen sets was the maximum they could have yesterday and that's what they had. It's the solutions are pretty easy in terms of the scheduling. It's just you have two women's matches on it on night or you have one men's match on the center court. And then you also use Louis Armstrong Stadium, which is an incredible venue and it's, it's, and if, yeah, it makes the ticket not as great there because you're not getting everything

10:17and one arena, but in TV, it won't matter because TV you can have ESPN and ESPN too. And if one match winds up being a dud or over early, everything comes over to ESPN, like you can, you can, for TV, it's not even a problem at all. But the thing is you, you can't have in a night session that already starts an hour late because the day session went that long and the night session probably started six anyway and starts seven and then it started eight. You can't have eight sets of tennis. And if you had just one men's match or two women's matches, you have maximum five or six. And that's much more palatable because of that mat, if that match last night starts at nine instead of 11, yeah, it's late, but it ends in the 1 AM hour. We deal with that. Well, the West Coast basketball and things happen. Like that's a little different. Like that's a match people can start watching. Like 11 PM's like a no go for a lot of people even to begin watching. Yeah. A lot of people start they get into it. All right, gonna put on some coffee. This one's going a little late, be a little tough tomorrow. 1 AM's 3 30 in the morning's the middle of the freaking night.

11:18Most people just can't do that. And so I, you know, unless you have a child or something like that in a way, you can blame it on. Yeah. But you know, and I don't mind if those are one off things, like those kind of the length of those matches, but it seems, it just seems like some of these things that we enjoy doing, like movies and certain sporting events are creeping into the four hour territory and then we just have to, you know, be okay with that. I just can't. I was with Bill Simmons on that too. I just, I don't want to do anything really for four hours. But see, what I love about tennis is there is no clock on the sport. Like you have to beat your opponent. You're not just like my wife has this great point that I think and she, it was actually really sort of interesting with the Western Michigan, Michigan football. She does not think anybody wins any game. She just thinks somebody happens to be ahead when the time runs out. Like she's like, why do you think you won? The clock just ran out and you were ahead. That doesn't mean that you didn't do anything, but it's a weird point and she's not definitely the greatest, you know, boy, what an acting job I used to have to take that seriously. I do know. Hey, that's a great point. Hey, if she'll listen to my stories, I will, I will pretend.

12:19She doesn't though. She tells you your stories are boring. She drops a take on you like that. You got to say some. You're just standing there stone phase. I, you know what babe? That's a great point. I don't know. No one really wins these, huh? What the fuck? Hey, I love trees. But if she sets them shit like that, dude, that's a no go. They're like, what are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. Hey, man, if you want to couch, if you can, if you can, if you can, if you live with me, with my opinions and my stories, you know, there are things there's some give and take. And she's got to get called out for that one. That one's terrible. I mean, she knows, I think she knows. She's tongue in cheek, but it's definitely tongue in cheek. Although she found it very funny when the Northwest era, when the Western Michigan, Michigan game had like an extra second, she's like, oh, that's interesting. I don't see how they're doing that. I know. It must be a great way to go through life. And I have to live and die and drop hot takes the next day on it. She isn't. Yeah. We're working on four downs in football with her. We're trying to get it to understand what that is. Just for you, I would say forget it at this point. It is. There's no need for you to come on the side, you know, totally forgotten.

13:21Yeah. Just ignore sports. It's probably better. It's great for our marriage. We, that part of things is a little separate. So I don't know. I just love that you were just going into a going, you know, and she made a really, really great point. I was talking, it's terrible. It's terrible. It was an unbelievable match. If you get a chance to watch the highlights though, it was, it was fun. I did this morning. Yeah. That's how I watch sports now that go past 11 o'clock because there's no way in hell. I mean, I just, I guess that makes me less of a sports fan now, but I just would rather get a good night's sleep and sit there up till 3 30 in the morning unless I had a thousand dollars, which I don't have on either player to make it that exciting. There's some opportunities of tennis live betting if you really, I mean, I, it's, it's, oh, there's money to me. It moves too quickly for me. Like you really have to pay attention because the, the in play line swings are so severe that if you really know what you're doing, you can be on both sides of a winter. Like you can be on a situation where you can't lose if you get it right, but I, I, it just moved. It's not something I, it's too much for me. The, um, yeah, but I think it's great for American tennis.

14:22Great for, the fact that Zverev is, you know, broke through the fact that Shelton finally got past Alcarez and you still have these two guys in center and Alcarez at the top of the game. A whole lot of fun. So, um, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty excited about it. We will take a quick break when we come back. Sean Windsor from the Detroit Free Press. We're not some Michigan State football, some Michigan, western Michigan controversy and, um, and then about their new venture. Uh, it's a Detroit Free Press as well. Couching the group, our, uh, Wednesday show presented by our friends at Front 43 Neighborhood Pub and Caskin Company Kitchen and Bar. Ever wonder how comfortable you can be and how good you can look? Put on a Muscox flannel and find out. Muscox has new arrivals for this fall, including the Capert Green Grand Flandel, which either makes Couch look good. Muscox is a Detroit-based flannel company that creates soft and durable flannels made the last of lifetime. They become a great partner with Couching the group, not just because they make us look good and feel good, but because they're good people too and a socially conscious company.

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16:25There's showdowns every week in football that you can't miss. Plus the college and pro hoops are red hot and the pucks are cool. Get your first Casino deposit and sports wager mashed up to $500 each. Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and located in Michigan. Any problem? Call the Michigan Problem Gambling helpline at 1-800-270-7117. The Rube. Our Wednesday show presented by our friends at Front 43 in neighborhood pub and Cascad Company kitchen and bar that's just north of Frandour near the Lansing East Lansing border on East

17:26Saginaw. Outstanding place to watch a game for a date night. For happy hour for lunch underrated patio as well. They also have a private room so if you want to have a gathering there to watch a game, a work function or you just hate your family and need a break. You just want to room yourself and be catered. You can do that at Front 43 in Cascad Company in the private room. Go to Cascad Company dot com. Very pleased now to be joined by my good friend and the columnist at the Detroit free press. Knocking down the blue wall. One column at a time these days. Sean Windsor. Sean how you doing man? Not too bad. How you doing? By the way, you're getting pretty good at those reads. Look at you man. They're a real host. They don't even need even need J for the more what's going on. It's all AI. I don't that's not actually me. I come in at the end and after the after the read, but because if you don't need them, we'll take them. You'll okay. Yeah. Well, we'll get it. Yeah. You've got a venture going on. I know there are a lot of. The room makes this.

18:27Makes the show go. I'm very well aware of that. A lot of people come up to me. They're like, I love you guys. I really love the room. But you guys are great. You know, it's always. I always want something. I'm not the king. Oh, thank you. Thank you for that. What can we say? Can we say to assume that the room was not up watching tennis last night? Because they probably didn't tolerate your soccer very well either. That's he likes the tennis so, but no, he did. Yeah, he was not up. He was not up at 3 30 in the morning. Did you, did you stay out for? Okay. For part of it, I did. It's. Yeah. And you look at your listeners don't want to park by time. We just did for ten minutes. We don't know what our listeners want. You're good. I guess that's funny. Well, I figured you abused them enough with your football fetish. Your European football fetish. Yeah. Yeah, no. No, it was. It was. It's late, but. And they've got to fix the scheduling. I don't mind the five sets. I don't mind the time. You just got to make sure that match starts at 9 p.m. and not 11 p.m. If they're going to do that.

19:28I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. You didn't want me to talk about Carl Socker as his best fund and breathtaking is to watch. I don't mind because he is that great. And I mean, if he was like, there are, and I try to tell Jason that there are soccer players where that fund and breathtaking to watch too if he ever wants to try. No, he is. That's true. He is like, I mean, there, there have been a few players like Federer was the most beautiful tennis player I've ever seen. And there have been, I used to love growing up like Becker and the way through his body around. And there are lots of different people. But I think the complete package in terms of total enjoyment. Carl Socker is probably number one for me all time. Yeah. Yeah. He's pretty unique. I was an adult guy for a long time. And I like it. Yeah. It's fun to watch all of them. But anyway, I was when I was young. It was Mackinro. I liked him over Connors. And my kids were asking me not that long ago. You know, okay, what was it about Mackinro? I mean, because he was kind of an A-hole, right?

20:29But Connors was so much bigger one. Oh, yeah. I just, I like the hand. The hand-back coordination. That's always when it comes back down to for me with no matter the sport, right? I was talking to somebody the other day. There was a stretch in my career. I was a Yankee Stadium for a lot. For whatever reason, like several, several seasons in a row was there for a couple of playoffs. And there was a time where Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter before every game would warm each other up. And one would be in the Connors home play in the Falt Tour or the other one would be sort of halfway out the outfield in Falt Tour. And then they would throw to each other that distance and then increasingly kind of close the gap. But just watching them play catch was mesmerizing, right? The fluidity, the movement, the way they catch and then pull the ball out and go back. Everything was just so grateful. You wouldn't think that you could be mesmerized watching a couple of do's play catch, but you can. When the body is like that, right? The speech of what you're talking about without chorus. It's sort of like reading one of your columns East Asian.

21:30So it's right up there, right up there. Yeah, no, I agree. It Mackinro for me in early days and like, I mean, he was at the tail end when I was sort of coming up. But his net play and I just, we could go on. We ought to just be honest with you, let's just please. I'm older than you let know, right? Look, it's okay to have children in your 60s. I will be what's going to happen to me. No, I mean, so Mackinro is, you know, I was born in the end of 79, 80 basically. And so my early tennis memories are, you know, are certainly Mackinro. They're Edberg and Becker and then, you know, Chang beating Edberg in the 90 French Open Final or 89 French Open Final, whatever it was. Not all that stuff. Is the rubral in a size yet, by the way? Yeah, he's asleep. He's been asleep. He's out. I'm just laughing at couch saying that he was born in 1980 because you were calling him out from the kid at 60 years old.

22:34I was born in 79, actually, 80. No, Graham, the Graham looks amazing for his age. Yeah, right? Yeah, he's got the swag. Oh, God. I'm not sure where Muscox flannel the extra jeans and man boobs. But let's talk some Mack football and a number of fronts where everybody's heads are. But starting with Michigan State, you were there Friday night. Probably, you know, definitely thought that was going to be the story that we can, which most likely was, or most certainly was not. What were your overall impressions of what you saw Friday relative to what you've seen over the last couple of years? Isn't it funny, by the way, that this part of fans feel a whole lot better? I mean, we'll talk about the Saturday second in terms of how much better they would have felt that would have, that last second, wouldn't have been added on. But they felt a lot better about their team. I would imagine, right, just that we, you and I talked about this all the time. A lot of college football people fans do just, hey, I can beat your team and they beat this team and they beat the whole trans.

23:39It's a little too soon for that. But no, I thought that looked, we talked about this in the press box Friday night up in, up in, as part of the stadium that they'd look more, you know, he's hit, right? They look more together. They'd look like there was a little bit more of an identity, a little bit more of a plan. They certainly looked better on the offensive line until Ben and Murat Muroski. Yeah. Am I saying that name or? Yeah. I'm just saying that, don't he went down early in the third quarter? But they were, because they ran the ball well, right? Yeah. And, and, um, see, you, you could just see it. One thing we can say for sure is that they're going to get, and child's had his, my, even child's had his moments, but they're going to get better quarterback play. They're going to get more consistent quarterback play. And that alone changes the team from a year ago, right? I think, you know, one of the things, you know, I, I'm sorry for shitting on Tom Tom there and every year in my life, because he's such a good guy and he's a good coach. And it just, but he's a great example of somebody to use a quarterback. When he was the point guard at Michigan State, I always thought, you know, I wasn't sure what he was seeing.

24:43And I don't think his teammates were sure what he was seeing. And the effect of that was not just that there was no improvisation from him, but it was his teammates didn't, you know, there was nothing, no playing off each other. So it affected everybody else. Everybody else became a lesser player. In other words, and I think when you have a quarterback who doesn't like make the, receivers don't trust they see it or that they're going to hang in there. And I think child's had a little of this, especially when he lost his confidence in their other quarterbacks, I have this. I think you probably have that with with Bryce Underwood right now at Michigan. And it, the effect it has on the whole passing game and the receivers and the whole offense because people don't, you know, they know athletically they can do something, but like they don't think they're going to see it. And I think with a less you know, Milovovich, they, people think he's going to see it. And I think that's the big difference in the coaches have talked about that a little bit and just how he, you know, they go to the iPads and he sees what they see. And that's, if you're going to develop as a quarterback, you know, the eyes are a big part of it.

25:44And I think that's one thing, one thing he's got now, you know, we'll see what his ceiling is. We'll see what, how much talent there truly is on that team is the schedule stiffens. And they've got to get better in the red zone and all that stuff. But yeah, I think they were, they were better at that set. I was going back and reading my quick takes from a year earlier and they weren't all that different unfortunately. So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Well, yeah, we'll see when they get to stop that a little week and a half for show, right? And not the idea. Absolutely. I mean, I guess they got to beat their former quarterback first and do a diss at it with Eastern, but and Mr. Noah Kim. Yeah, no, that'll, that'll tell us a lot. But you're right. It is overstate after, after one game, it's a lot can change. But I don't know. I feel like you can see they just look. Yeah, they just look like they knew what they were doing a little bit, right? And they showed a little bit of resiliency. I mean, they, they're in Toledo, came and took the lead.

26:45Yeah, no, I think that's the way they responded. You can dismiss that, say, I was Toledo, but the way they responded, that's, that's not nothing. No, that net next drive to me was, was really telling because if you've got a team, that can go two ways. And people can get the crowd can get nervous and you can play nervous. And then that can become part of your identity to all season. I've seen Michigan State teams have that where they lost a lot of late games. So that's, that's a positive sign even as the competition steps up. All right, Saturday night happens. What I've been at the big house when some things have screwed up some columns for me and I most notably the, the, the, the, the, the lack of trouble with the snap, right play, then I had different versions written and, and, you know, what I remember is hardly seeing the play and then I've been scrambled. What, what was your initial thought when you see the second opportunity at a Hail Mary and then it's completed and you've probably got one instant column written like what what's going through your mind?

27:49Well, there are a few things. It's funny because I would sit next to Tony Garcia who I would also say is not a member of the blue wall. You know, he covers Michigan for us for the, for the string free press. And as soon as the press announced the P.A. said, hey, they're going to put a second back on the clock. You look at me said they're going to score. You know, they're going to score. You know what's coming. I can see it. Sports sports fan trope, right? Well, of course, I mean, it's just, we're not based on that on eating real other than just lived experience of, of karma and how hell. It's not karma. I don't even, I don't even know what you call it. Just whatever way out and whatever's going to happen is we've all seen we can happen. You can feel it. Yep. So, so, so in the self ways that wasn't a shock. Yet, of course, it's still a shock. I mean, how often do you add a stadium where there's a Hail Mary? Right? How often if you're a fan watching your team, you see a Hail Mary.

28:51Once in your life, maybe if you follow a particular football team, unless it's Aaron Rogers and the Lions, but otherwise, yeah, it's usually once, once in a lifetime. Exactly. It's just so it's so there's the level of shock. So, so for me in the role, what I had to do, yeah, for the, for the list of the InstaCut, you, I write a column. Graham does his three takes. I was thinking you, you all are all familiar with that. Sorry to talk directly to your listeners and not include you, Graham, but. Yeah, no, I write a column that had to file basically at the buzzer. Obviously that column was about one of the worst losses. Michigan's had in a while and what what to start this was a car. What do you have, Mary, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The brights underwood didn't look a whole lot different than he did a year ago. All that self, that part, by the way, that you can keep a little bit of the other one part, but, but yeah, you it's going. There's nothing. Yeah, it's going. So I sit there and I take a deep breath and I just sort of smiled. I'm like, OK, I can do this. I can do this. So you take a 60 seconds and you think about what you want to say.

29:56You're knowing you're not going to be able to deep, dig too deeply into all the stuff that you're going to need to conspirate. You know, you got to acknowledge that a little bit, but also it's crazy and the fans are showing the field. So there's still that part of it yet nobody. Yeah, it was the weirdness to say one of the. Anyway, I did that in 20 25 minutes, run down and then come back up and then think about, OK, what am I really going to say? Yeah, the main column that I'm going to spend all night writing. That's such a it's such a. I once did a talk about this about the panic of that and there was a Michigan State game at Penn State a few years ago and. I think it was Brian LaWorky to Felton Davis to win it and I'd written the quick takes the whole game assuming they were going to lose the tone, all the transitions, everything. And on the last drive, I was like, Oh crap, wait a second, they're actually going to win this thing and they did and you know, there's like a few seconds where you just think, this is when everybody discovers I'm a fraud. Yeah, I can't do this and maybe I should just leave and quit now and then you know, all your experience doing this stuff and whatever you put it together and you write something that turns out halfway decent and it's fine and it's like a you blackout for three, four minutes and you pull it together, right?

31:07So that's that's the job and it's everyone's while it happens. Okay, so the controversy surrounding it, do you think like my general feeling on it was like, I know this isn't Michigan's fault and you've written this to some degree now and but it is, you know, there's a reason that people are rooting against them here. There's a reason that they're not getting the benefit of the doubt. There's a reason they're sort of tied into it. There's a reason it's of course it's Michigan. And I do think in my my heart of hearts that if the rules are completely reversed that Western Michigan doesn't get another's tick and another chance to throw it that people are already probably on the field. I excited and they just, okay, that's it, you know, that that I don't think if the rules were reversed, they would have gotten another opportunity. What say you? Oh, that's a that's a tough one. That's a tough one. I feel like it might actually just because if you think about the people doing those jobs, first of all, think about the officials and they're not going to be, I mean, obviously we've had officials on the take before.

32:14But but by and large, they're not right. I think we think we can agree on that. It's not all WZE just yet. Yep. So they're going to take pride that people doing the reviews and the technology was partly a blame here, right? You can say it's said, hey, this is the protocol you're going to follow, which is sucks for Western Michigan because they follow that protocol. They win the game, but but in any case, there is a sense of people want to do their job. And so I feel like if you have no faith in humanity, all in yeah, okay, then they would they Western would have not got that second. But if you believe in your neighbors at all, then I like to think that yeah, they would have got that second. It's the same with the think about what the fans rushing on the field and all this talk about what an embarrassment that was. If you're 19 years, think about this. If you're 19 years old, 20 years old. And what would we just talk about? How often you see a hell marry and you're sitting there. And by the way, the fans starting, the fans that started it were of course,

33:20coming from the student session in the Northwest corner of that stadium. You're 19, 20 years old and you just saw a hell marry. That's why they were going on the field and nothing to do it was. And the other thing else for kind, it is it's a human gut reaction to something. Oh my god, I can't believe that just happened. I got to get on to the field. That's all it was. I've been thinking about this a lot because you know, first of all, it's a little bit of a sign of respect that you know, when you're in the time you rush the field when your team is beaten. So there's a sign of respect for the opponent. But it's also this is something that people around college football should want because we talk about all the time, the loss of connection between the game experience, the players, the young fans and the moments like the idea that the college kids today aren't going to be as invested in their programs when they're in their 30s, 40s and 50s. And that's the key to this whole thing surviving. And moments like that, when you when you're 40 years old and you're talking to your buddies, the day you rush the field, you know, the big house out of the student section, that's stuff that keeps you coming back.

34:24That's something that's a lifetime moment thing. And so like an overarching thing that you want as many of those as possible. You want the student sections having moments like that. So I don't know, you know, I don't begrudge students for anything like that. Yeah, the reason I bring that up and like, okay, how are they related? Maybe not you, but it's just the idea of taking a breath, what I did when I wrote that into the column and thinking through something for a second. And then thinking about the logic and everything, you know, well, of course, the 19, 20 year old student who's a Michigan student is going to react to that craziness. But it's also true. It's also true. Just like the people in that review booth, if they have any integrity at all, right? And it's maybe it's easy to say nobody does that nobody does and that we're doomed and that the apocalypse is here. And why are we even going to the grocery store anymore? I mean, that's fine. You know, we can, we can be nihilists. We can all pretend, you know, we're back in the Big Lebowski and sorry to date myself here. But, but, but, but maybe not. Maybe there's, maybe there's some kind of an explanation if you start to think it through.

35:34Just like people can react and run on a field, Graham, right? But then afterwards, not feel good about that win at all. Which I think is true. I heard from so many Michigan fans who are embarrassed by the whole thing. Well, let's want to give the win back to Michigan. What's the Michigan? Let's go there and not so much the, you know, I mean, the state of that team, how good or bad do you think Michigan is? How much of it is on price underwood, the quarterback who struggled mightily in that game. And like, is this a, is this a team that can grow into a season? Still are these, is this a, is it a, they a seven win team that's in big trouble this week at home. We can talk to home. That's interesting to think about it because I remember thinking of wandering the same thing a year ago and they grew in a little bit, but they didn't have enough to compete with the best, right? And that's a lot of that quarterback. Yeah, that's, that's a tough one. I, I wouldn't say real quick when I was coming back up after, after this and the cow running him and some of the players.

36:37That's where I got my idea for the, the broader second column because they weren't happy. The, the players are miserable. Winning him was miserable. He said nobody celebrated in a locker room. I know the students in some fans around on the field, but a lot of broader Michigan fans weren't happy. Clearly what's the Michigan wasn't happy? The commissioners weren't happy. The president of the coach. Nobody was happy, right? And that was what it's so out about. You have this, obviously a Hill Mary always produces a crushing feeling for half the stadium or half the, you know, the, the watch or the viewers. Right. I mean, it's, it's a brutal way to lose. That's always going to be true. But the flip side is that the other half is a static and we'll have that memory of the rest of our life. It's not to use the word, Tanya here again, but it's going to be dated. It is. It'll, it'll be yes. And in some ways, I, I don't want to go as far as we, we talk a lot like the, the gym joys, Colorado situation with the perfect game is, is in some ways you think, well, that almost wanted working out because it's much more famous as a perfect game, right?

37:38I mean, I don't know if you're going to have to, it probably hastened the move to replay. It was, it's, it's in law. I do think Western Michigan beating Michigan for that team for that, they've never beaten Michigan. Like the idea that, that team coming back 30 years from now for reunions, whatever the rest of the season, but can't, that would have been a moment that you, I don't think there's any, there's no solace, you know, I mean, I guess if they went, you know, just about on beaten and gotten to the playoff and something and it was this wasn't held against them. Okay, that, that's fine. But like, short of that, this is a, that's not the only thing that I'm going to do. Short of that, this is, this is still going to be crushing. And I think that's, that's one of the things that I think was hard for a lot of people is you just feel for Western Michigan, whatever you feel about Michigan, you feel for a school like that, the underdog, playing the game they did where they were better than Michigan for a lot of ways. And then not getting the reward. I think that's, that's also a play here. I think Michigan Michigan being Michigan is part of it. But if it had been, you know, Alabama. And, and it had been, you know, you know, some little school down south, people to felt the same way. You know, I think, no, no, no, no, no question. You'll question on the other hand, how many people remember the Toledo beat Michigan? There's a retro. I mean, I know people will remember App State. It's a little different, but they don't, not too many people remember Toledo.

38:52I, that's, that's what you feel exactly. You feel for the team, obviously, the players coaches that fan based those students in Kalamazoo. But it's a lot more memorable this way. I'm not dismissing that feeling all right. That's, that's, that's what you're talking about with Galaraga. It's more memorable because of the blown call. It's a, what's the Kevin Costner movie tin cup, right where he, he crashes out in the final hole or whatever, can I spend up in the hall, I can't remember which one it was to win the US Open, dup in the ball in the water over and over and over. And the whole point is that's what they're going to remember. They're going to remember the crush. Van Develd. They know real life example at the British Open. Yeah, people still know that name because he lost not because he won the British Open. So there's a little bit of that going on here as well. Don't you think? I do. I do. Yeah. And, and like I covered that Western Michigan program for a long time. I know what this would have meant. I've covered games at Michigan where, you know, I talked about this the other day in 2011. The game got, you know, Western Michigan at a decent T Michigan was okay. Game was close for a while. Probably should have been closer and it was.

40:01And it got called late in the third quarter for weather. And I remember the Western Michigan coach saying, you know, if this had been reversed, there's no way they don't finish that game. They got kind of bully didn't do it. And I so I know how that feels on that end, you know, to get sort of that that side. You, it feels like the bully, right. And that's, I think that's what what what they're what. Yeah, what they're what they're ultimately feeling about. Let's. Just. Just. Just. By the way, yeah, Michigan's got some issues and underwood doesn't look. I mean, who knows it's earlier. Our colleague former colleague, good buddy Joe restaurant wrote a column saying, hey, give, give underwood some time. And maybe so. He's a young sophomore. The question is the happy feed, right? Yeah. Some of the traits he has don't don't change. That's the thing I'm worried about with him. Like if he was. You don't see a lot of guys with and there might be examples that that do, but you don't see a lot of quarterbacks with his issues become great. You know, if they do what they're going to have to, you know, it's it's jaden Daniels and they need to stick around college five years and go a couple places and that sort of thing and really find themselves in different ways, I guess. And so maybe that's that maybe that's his path. It's certainly not a quick quick trip to the NFL. That's that's for sure.

41:16I want to bring in your colleague, technically your boss assistant sports editor Andrew Berkel, who is by the way, yeah, no, Andrew is somebody who eventually will be high, high up in this business. And when I've Yeah, and so it can you know, learn that name and at some point he will make some big decisions and sports journalism. And one of the things they're doing now is the free press is launched a sports live show and podcast three times a week. And it's the free sports show with Sean and Andrew. My only question for you guys in terms of doubting what you're doing here is putting Sean's picture as part of the promotional image, like I get you know, Andrew's a young guy hopes high life. We're living all that Sean does not I don't know what you're thinking there. And you're how you doing man. Good man. Super glad to be on. Thanks for having me. And of course, my dog is certain about. I know what right inside. I phone it. So thanks for having me on. We appreciate all pets on the show. So you're what's your dog's name?

42:26Millie. She's about 90 pounds and takes up half my bed every night. So there's lots of sacrifices made including phone calls getting interrupted for some kind of presence at home. Well sweet. Welcome. Welcome, Millie. All right. So what was the Genesis behind this this idea of hosting a sports show and what do you hope to do with it? Well, honestly, it's pretty simple. So like after these games, there's just like a rabid fan base just swarming online, right? Like all of a sudden, like, honestly, the Michigan game was the perfect example. We just didn't have the show ready yet. But like there's just so much concept discourse going on online that like I feel like sometimes when we post a column the next morning or or we do a podcast like we have Halia's the Michigan football podcast at Tony Garcia and I host. Like we're talking about something like four days later, right? And by then it's like it's too late. So the idea was that this show three days a week covering all the different themes we can hopefully.

43:32It whatever is the topical thing at the moment, you know, that I like the idea. What was so if in a perfect world, the show is ready to go. The show had launched the Michigan game happens. What do you guys do? Well, honestly, it depends on where Sean is partially, right? So if Sean is at the game, we're going to I'm going to be first thing I'm going to be doing is texting Sean be like, Hey, are you going down to the locker room? Are we going live right now? So with Lions games, we've decided all 17 games. The second we're done with the game, we're going live because we just don't want to be too late on that with Michigan stuff and you know maybe it's a tiger's playoff game or something like that. We want to be probably a little bit more flexible and give Sean the possibility to go to the locker room, talk to people because he's still calmness at the end of the day. But it's going to be a work in progress. Honestly, we only have one show in the books. I'm kind of excited to see kind of where it goes. But when is to just basically get to the people as fast as possible, but also there's so much like nitty gritty boring stuff too. Like how do we splice up the show? Like how do you name the show? How do you title it?

44:39I've been spending like a lot of time like looking into that stuff so that like we can catch up with the people who are doing it successfully and we've kind of, you know, in the multimedia space, we're a newspaper, right? So it's not necessarily something in the past we've done at a super high level. We're trying to take it to the next level and do it at the same standard that we hold ourselves to on columns and articles and all that stuff. And this will be a podcast available as well. Correct? Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to add, this is probably the most important thing to say in all this. I did not go to Michigan and Andrew, I'm not going to, you know, you don't necessarily need to know where I want to school. I want to do a couple of them, but Andrew who grabbed a he ran away from Michigan State. This is a continuing assault with a sludge hammer. Against the blue wall. You mentioned at the top of the show, right? That I was trying to break a blue wall down like one kilometer time. Well, here we are with one one podcast at a time, one show at a time by bringing in Mr. Young and Andrew, right?

45:39I mean, Tony Garcia's a Michigan. I'm just putting up there still, by the way, what's that Tony Garcia's a Michigan State guy, right? And we can't remiss. Yeah, yeah, the blue wall is getting some chipstaking to you know, some some, yeah, yeah, no, no, it's. Yeah, no, that's Andrews. He's from around here like this is not. Yeah. I the blue wall is one of my favorite and least favorite subjects we hit on this show because I I enjoy the blue wall and enjoy the discourse to a degree. And and also understand people's frustrations, but the vast conspiracy that people think is there. I would urge people to read Sean your last two columns about Michigan. And that will help them feel a little bit better about to where the free is. With the with the blue wall. Andrew, I think this is a cool idea. I hope at some point you'll you'll have me on maybe even the roof. And we can we can you know, pop in for a guest appearance once or while or something.

46:41Yeah, hopefully soon in the later we do have a big old rivalry game. I mean, I don't can you even consider Michigan State and no name rivals anymore. I feel like they I think when you play the game on like NCAA 27 or whatever, they still show up the trophy on there. So I guess. I think they'll probably still do the trophy, right? But I mean, they barely play, but it technically still a rough work game and a big test for MSU. So we possibly love to have you on for that too. If you can swing it. Absolutely. No, it should it's a game that should be played more often. It sucks that it's lost its its regularity because I you know, I mean, it's it's a classic. MS 2 is when Michigan and Michigan State would play them back to back because it was the ultimate early scene season barometer. Yeah, I remember back in the day of the like what Michigan would play in week two MSU would play in week three. And then you'd have some like idea of maybe where those two teams would stand and you had a common opponent. It just gave so much it made more sense when you did that way. And now Michigan's kind of in the same boat as MSU, but it's all part of this college football. Yes, it's all mass conferences non-competives. Don't get Graham started Andrew. Don't get started. No, it's not on the lack of joy college football. No, it's it's one of the things it's been lost. It's it really has. It's it's too bad. I mean, it's 10 years since Michigan State has been down there. That's that's absolutely insane. But yeah, well, I look forward to see what you guys do with it and and and hopefully coming on come on myself as well and appreciate you both being on couch on the roof. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks as always. Thanks, Graham.

48:09That is Andrew Berkel and Sean Windsor from the Detroit Free Press and their new venture. The blue wall podcast. The blue wall podcast. Now the free sports show that just happened to start after the Western game. But we're Michigan State grad. Yeah. We don't know where Windsor went to school, but it just so happened on one of the biggest later conspiracy theory things that happened in college football and quite some time. The podcast starts next week though. Yeah. Windsor Windsor went to like seven different community colleges. So it's he's he's a listen. I can't knock that. No, I mean, I went to one community college. That was enough. Yeah. Let me know how dumb I was. You know, they actually leave right there. No, they love my money. It was free money. It's like these gambling websites. They know, I absolutely come on in. Pay for your your soccer indoor soccer class. You had to take for $400. Try to get a communications associate's paper. Yeah. Oh, man. That was great. All right. Take away from the discussion with Sean about Michigan, Michigan state and everything. I totally disagree with Sean about storming the field. I was 19. I like to put myself in the position of a student. And I wanted to and I did. And I just know when I was 19 if we were losing to Western. And we had a Hail Mary. There's no way I would store.

49:25The field in any scenario. And that was just it was really shocking. And you can blame it on being young and all that other stuff. But I just could not imagine being on that field cheering on. After that whole aftermath. I think it's also it was a student section that was part of a fan base that was just waiting for anything thrilling. And then it happened. So you went from like. Yeah, but you have to jump over the balcony thing there. And you have to get down on the field. It isn't like you just go like, yay. And then you're just on the field. Yeah. You just do one jump. You got to get down these barriers. And go past security. And there's a lot of you know, it's not like early 90s Spartan Stadium where you just stepped over like a two foot wall on your. Yeah. There was a 90 year old guy that you just pushed to the side of me. That was one of my scariest moments in life still. And I remember being there. It was a was a constant Michigan state game. I think like mill the thrill Coleman was playing quarterback in like the early 90s. And I didn't know. And my buddy and I like 12. So we're just walking around the stadium. And we go back then the bottom of the stadium seats were so low. You couldn't see over the teams. So they were pretty empty. I mean that's part of the reason they get rid of that area. Right. You get the they weren't great seats. If you were seated in rows like one through four, you couldn't see over anybody.

50:35So but we were down there drinking the teams Gatorade on the I can't remember which I know I think was the content side, but set a table set up. It was right next to it. So we just go mind if I do. No, I want to lose. I want to lose. That's my voice. Anyway. But so the game ends and everybody goes on the field. And they have that camera that like swoops down from up high, the ABC camera, whatever. You know, and everybody's getting under like number one, all this stuff. And I felt the crush of humanity coming around my 12 year old self. I've never been that was the first time I'd ever been like scared about like suffocation. I was like, I got this is never what I'm never and that would to this day. I've been around some court stormings and field stormings in the press. But that is my like as a fan, I would never even consider it anymore because that's my first thought. I think about being 12 and feeling the sea of humanity crush into my ribs and being like, I don't want this. I don't want to die this. I feel like the first girl you had sex with has the same kind of story.

51:39And you write that. And you write that. And I had sex with Graham couch. My ribs hurt. Anyway, the um. No, but I just can I ask the free press people something? Yes. Do they understand where the blue wall stuff comes from? I know like Sean is they do. And I'm never claim. You know, that Sean is a blue wall member. But you have to do at least admit that there is some discrepancies there. Well, they they know where things are covered. They know the way it stems. It both. I know, but it's like, well, he's from Michigan. So therefore there's going to be none of this. And I just don't know if that matters because someone above them is, well, largely above them. They've had a lot of Michigan. Say people to what I would say is this, but you still need a job, though. You don't want to lose your job. Ultimately, where the blue wall stems from. And then there are specific instances that that feed this. But the greater thing is a major columnist voices who lean that way. It's it's Mitch Alb with the free and it's about it's a vote show with the news.

52:41And in they, you know, it's it's people. The way they are seen. And those are the two most prominent voices over time. Now Mitch barely writes for the free press. Frankly, anymore. I mean, Sean is there is is is there most visible sports columnist. Unless Loose is writing that day or something. But when's his podcast? Well, you see the lows. Lowell will be on the. Oh, he's still employed. All right. Good for him. Yeah. Anyway. Can't wait to not read his stuff this year. Should have brought that up. Sorry. It's okay. We don't have opinions. Can we? Yeah. Anyway, there's no blue wall just a low swall. Apparently. Loose is not part of the wall. That is one thing he is not. You may not like his opinions, but he is not. He's not part of the wall. He's not part of the blue wall. I'm trying to think there's anything else we we we need to get into before we. Yeah, I had something else. But I lost. Sorry. Maybe Bob's right. Maybe I might my little quips. You know, they interrupt couches. Train of thought. I just was saying it like you know it's not like the be all end all with this blue wall.

53:45But I just can't imagine that you're just not understanding why though. Like you know, and people are crazy for saying that just there's too many instances where you can point to and go like, okay. That's covered a lot differently than the way it should be. There is no blue wall sometimes there's some down hatred for the University of Michigan state. I don't I wouldn't think so, but I mean, I don't. Sometimes what happens is you see what you want to see you see what bothers you and you don't read as much and follow as closely. It's to a lesser extent. It's the argument about, you know, Michigan state injuries are worse than everybody else's because nobody reads about Oklahoma's injuries or Iowa state injuries or Washington's injuries. Right. So they think what's happening here. If you were like this, you know, if if you spent a year. Just you know really focused on some other school and their rivalry and everything like that you might you might find a lot of similarities in terms of the way things and if you if you for a while try to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. This would be I'm not saying this is an exercise anybody should do.

54:47But I think you feel a little differently and maybe not maybe this would be proof that the blue curtain or something exists. But if you for a year try to think of yourself as a fan of the other school. And read everything from a from the perspective of you're getting you're getting job by the media every time something's written about from that perspective. I don't think you'd completely get there with the Michigan side of things, but I think you'd see the world differently. I think you see the world. But when something similar happens to Michigan, it's covered different there. Not I wouldn't say that's okay. I'm just saying what people have been saying this whole time with the blue wall. I know what people have been saying. I understand. Like I'm not a huge like I just can't I just try to ignore a lot of that stuff because it just doesn't do me any good. But I do pay attention to what some of the blue wall and some of the you know the people that the claims that they may. You know who's going to shit on me for this conversation Dominic just going to hammer me on Friday's groovy doing it to our questions. That's what I mean right. I'm Friday.

55:48Yeah bring it bring it bring some examples about this blue wall better than I can. Yeah well anyway do it justice. I just thought it was funny that it has to be pointed out this. This person goes to Michigan state. This person doesn't I mean if they went to Michigan. I don't know like but where's your reporting? Is it is it based the same way? Are you writing the same things you would write about the University of Michigan that you write about Michigan state. There's been a lot of hard stuff written about Michigan and there's I would say you know even beyond the really serious stuff. The stuff that Sean wrote the last two days are our great examples of sort of that balance. And the free press sports shows a good place to judge for yourself. I would say that happens to start a week after the well I mean they didn't plan that. Oh that would be brutal. Yeah you imagine when the food we're just starting this podcast and something like that you're like oh yeah we'll start. It's all of a sudden a Michigan western Michigan thing like that you feel like you just have to start whatever you have. Just go live. Yeah just like seriously. What? Pull an ebbling just pull out your phone and just get out of that and start talking into it.

56:49It's up to be more interesting. I know that I'm curious to see how it works in certain days with Sean because I know what that's like the end of games when you've got a million things going and you're trying also to do. Hey Sean we need your hot takes. Put a headset on. Hold on I got to sit over here and process. Well I mean I'll give you a great example of the challenge of the some of the stuff post game and I don't mean to ramble on about the process that we go through. Oh please tell me yeah. Yeah but no the tunnel gate is a great example. So the the the game that the tunnel fight happens between Michigan state Michigan state Michigan players. Yeah. At the big house I am finishing my three quick takes and Michigan's like the worst place. It's not just the worst tunnel it's like the worst place to get to the post game presser. It's on the other side from the press box. It's you're going through a sea of people you got to go outside the stadium and back it's not it's not well constructed. Nobody to get to the visiting media but I finally get over there but I'm. Ten minutes after you know people who didn't have to file quick takes are over there and I get over there and it's clearly something has happened.

57:55But I'm listening to people trying to figure out what the hell they're talking about. I didn't know like Salari is in the middle of this. This scuffle you know and what was going on with this video now. So yeah. But so that's a that's a situation where it really hurts the the later column you do where if I had been there initially. I probably write a very different column. I have a different vantage point. I still think I would have broken up the fight and said that before. But that's oh that's right. That was your take. Yeah it was my take. Guys guys guys. There's enough guys. Oh chill. It's be chill. Not the one with the helmet. I'm not saying that but the one that was right in front of Salari were where you went to go take a video and he pressed his camera or whatever. Yeah. But anyway I missed that whole thing and then there's like I don't even have any questions. People are asking sort of about it and I'm going what happened over here. God you know. So that's what I'm that's why it's hard. You sort of have to pick and choose your your your battles sometimes with that with that with that stuff. At least before we go before we go before we go before we take a break and come back with our picks.

58:57I want to touch briefly on a column I wrote for today on a less you middle boy. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Gave me hope. It was interesting. I didn't set out to write that column. I mean I set out to write a column on him. Michigan states quarterback. But I had no idea that he was like what his numbers would be relative to other Michigan state quarterbacks for five starts. Right. So I thought all right. I'll look at the last few quarterbacks and just see how he compares. And so you're looking at you know everybody from eight and childs to Peyton Thorne, Lourke, Kurt Cousins kind of cook all that stuff. Yeah. I think you're moving backwards. You know how he. His numbers are better than everybody's first five starts and sometimes you have to go back because you know they started two games here and then three games that next year their first five and. You get back. Oh better understand. Okay. Better and smoker. All right. Better and Bill Burke. Tony Banks. Jim Miller. Okay. You're far we going back. Well I had to go back and then it's like I'm opening up the L.S.J. archives because then I have to find old box scores or old stats like five games.

59:57Fortunately the L.S.J. Used to be way better than it is now. And we used to have this green line game day section. The things we could do. Oh my god. And and like every Saturday going into a week they had the full stats for the season at that point. So you could find out where guys started and find the stats at that point and because some certain point it just it ends online and you need those kind of archives. But yeah anyway going back. It turns out I mean in terms of completion percentage number of completions and yards. No quarterback has ever been better than L.S.J. Middle Boy which is first five starts. And then you know in terms of overall efficiency you could argue actually patent thorn at 13 touchdowns in first five starts and just two interceptions and almost there on the other numbers. And so again and he had a really good year in 2021 if you look at 27 touchdowns 10 interceptions it didn't continue like he didn't a lot of that was he had two NFL receivers and and then a full Super Bowl MVP running back that helps.

1:00:57Power bushes. And so and his career didn't continue on that trajectory at Michigan State but and so all these guys are in different situations. I'm not saying everything's the same I'm not saying he's the best quarterback ever five starts in statistically he is. But that's enough to be intrigued by what's to come and I you know I had some quotes in there that were decent but then today Wednesday Joe Rossi talked about him a little bit and you know this wasn't in my column because it had already been written but I mean Rossi basically said he's he's. He's going to be really good that that he you're talking about the defensive coordinator watches this guy and and the. You heard it the decisions he makes and and didn't and didn't know that was going to happen early because his first two picks first two passes were interceptions in Michigan State including a pick six. Oh yeah and a lot of times that you know what what is this guy made up like what is he and then he said last year when he was getting beat up they didn't have the greatest protection. And the throws he made late last season he just said this guys there's something there and anyway so it'll be interesting to follow my I just I found that interesting to see that statistically at this point there's lots he's got to prove he's got a you know they're just not great in the red zone they weren't last year with him all the time.

1:02:12But I love this energy on the field and like Sean said is you know as lame as it is storming the field but coming back against you know being down 20 to 19 against to lead oh at home first game of the season a lot of things can go wrong. And he let him back down like you know I mean so like those little things kind of do matter when you're trying to build some momentum like you're trying to do with this football program that drive after they. Give up the lead and he goes I think four for five he has a 26 yard pass in there 15 yard pass these weren't dim you know dink and dunk things 15 yard pass in there completes a fourth down you know for a touchdown and then a two point conversion like that that drive to me is the next drive was good I mean he you know he I think you had one pass and ran a little they were running it they were starting to lean on to lead a little bit but that drive that that response. Because you know you can say well it's Toledo well Toledo had the lead and and you can get nervous and and I you know that was impressive now again but if Toledo didn't break like we've talked about it but if they didn't break those two big offensive plays correct right you know if Toledo was doing it up and down the field here and there that's part of the reasons I think Michigan states can actually be these from Michigan pretty handling we'll get into that here I mean we picked the games but the you know one of the things will be interesting is you know now I'm going to do it.

1:03:30You know now when when they when they step up in competition can he elevate people around him can he make bigger throws and key moments again and again but we had the price underwood conversation one of the problems for price underwood is you don't see the makings of that quarterback with with a less you do and so that's the thing even as he grows at the baseline as a guy who's seeing what the coaches see and making the right reads and as the toughness to hang in the pocket not flea like if that's your start starting point you can you can grow from there and I just thought that the numbers supported it so much we're interesting so anyway I wrote a column about it let's let's take a really quick break and we come back we will do our first couch in the room pick and picks and our Wednesday show presented by our friends at Front 43 neighborhood pub and casking company kitchen bar. Where else can you cheer on your team enjoy a mouthwatering burger or savory sushi zip on handcrafted cocktails or one of 46 beers on tap take your game day or date night to casking company kitchen bar or front 43 neighborhood pub near friend or two amazing places with one awesome blended modern

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1:05:39Please like and subscribe to the couch in the room YouTube channel also download podcast episodes wherever you get your podcasts for sponsorship opportunities email Jason at couch and the room dot com. couch in the room are Wednesday show presented by front forty three neighborhood pub and casking company kitchen and bar for a place to watch the games or a date night while you're watching the games you know but set up your significant others so you can see over the shoulder and all that so casking company in front forty three is a great place to do so casking company dot com to make a reservation which I recommend in the evenings Thursday through the weekend but if you show for happy hour happy hour specials start there one need a reservation just get there and start drinking and watching the games and it can be a heck of a night front forty three and casking company now time to pick this week's college football

1:06:40NFL games it is finally here presented by our friends at firekeepers casino and the firekeepers I casino in sports book app download the app bet responsibly Jason yes are you ready sir absolutely you ready for Wednesday night NFL football is incredible chicken it off incredible kind of weird it is weird you know I don't I can't be mad at it I guess but like I don't mind it week one start on third yeah I would hate it if it starts being that regular thing Wednesday night always going to be good now once is Tuesday through Sunday it's just it's too much Monday through Sunday now Monday night football you want to say you want a little bit of the specialness like oh my god it's back you know football is back you have a couple days to breathe you know watch afternoon soccer Champions League stuff in Tuesday and Wednesday hour US Open match that's right that's what that's what I'm alright so this year we may at some point at a gambling expert like a hairy or somebody else to the show but for for now it is it is the the two of us and maybe what we do is we just have a guest picker maybe we have a

1:07:44a one of our listeners every week comes on a regular bring a listener not you know what I mean that we kind of fun John freeberg you're up for yeah let's go I think that be a fun we can talk about different ways to do this because I think it would be fun to have a third person come in and do intern Nolan yes there we back to pick games oh god I have to skip that for Nolan no I just no nothing against them yeah all right let's so we're going to the three college games and sorry four college games three NFL games this week and we'll put six of these out for the couch and the rubelessness to pick as well let's start with Ohio State at Texas yeah Texas at home minus one and a half a game that Ohio State you know one with somewhat convincingly certain ways last year what what's your sense of I like I know Texas is home yeah I know it's going to be hot as hell Ohio lost a lot Texas is motivated so I sometimes though the I don't know I have a Ryan day lost though right this is you think so yeah like because you know it's basically telling you it's a coin flip game right

1:08:56so I'm just taking Texas I have no idea I don't know how I just I could see Ryan Day losing a game like this at Texas this you know Vegas has no idea so it's a basically a coin flip I'm flipping a coin give me the home the home team here yeah unfortunately I mean there's nothing week one that this you know tells me one team is significantly better than that's that's the job supposed to say yeah I it'll be a fun game I can't wait to watch yeah and then looking forward to archmaning and college with right what is archmaning like is he really because he's a very different quarterback than his his uncles right and so is he finally I don't know I'm going to I'm going to stay here Jason's got got Texas I like Texas it's it's it's it's my it's my it's my it's my gut feeling okay next game Eastern Michigan at Michigan state MSU minus 17 and a half some times you see it's 17 check on the firekeepers eye casino and sports book I Jason I like Michigan state here and this goes down to

1:10:00their inability to finish drives last week I think some of those I think some of that will be corrected by also think the difference between Toledo and Eastern Michigan will be Michigan state will finish some of those drives and I you know the mistake like if you replay that Toledo Michigan state game 10 times I would say eight of the times it's more lopsided than 10 points and so I don't think Eastern Michigan which is already you know lost the game to San Jose state is there's there's you know we know a little about the quarterback look Chris Creighton's that an incredible job there with that program and do I think he could probably win more consistently at a different program yes I think he's a heck of a football coach I'm glad they have been patient and hung on I'm glad he's stuck it out and I think it's kind of ridiculous he hasn't gotten a better job I think MSU is going to win this one though closer to some of the stuff you know 17 and a half it's a huge number especially for what we talked about giving a big plays against Toledo I think they're going to correct

1:11:03hopefully correct those in Eastern is terrible I think it's 38 third of the year with a quarter bag I just yeah 38 13 range you know you can find you can ladder these sort of things if if and again I don't I'm not going to bet the game because I'm covering MSU I always state that but to go do you will find lines out there where you can bet alternative lines like to win by 43 or more and it's like minus 1900 and if you find that line I mean those are the sort of things these are the games that sort of think about a little bit near that line is one 800 gambling hotline they had they sneak it in right there if you find it they go just if you need it here you go so we're both on machines both on Michigan state here to cover yes okay 17 and a half seems heavy but by God Easter yeah most all right let's go Oklahoma at Michigan Oklahoma minus five and a half I now I've seen this line dance between six and a half and five and a half it's it's stayed really at five and you know it's it's not gone up despite Michigan's performance last week Oklahoma though has not been a program that's run away from people I think this is a this is a tricky line because I do think Michigan is

1:12:06good enough at home that defensively that they're not going to get I don't think this is going to be the Texas game I I think I don't think they're going to get run over here I think it could be a game that's within seven to ten points I do I think it could be within seven points so we were what we're saying is we think Western is I think Western is pretty good yeah Western kept a lot of it is some of it have to do with getting screwed that we think that way about because I mean Oklahoma is ranked and it's five and a half and it hasn't moved whatsoever which is concerned ranked by who ranked by people like me we don't know shit which is why I'm saying the ranked I don't know if you believe it or not right that we thought you know I know I'm taking things to also last week 51 nothing I'm taking I'm taking Oklahoma I'm just saying I think it's more like seven to ten points and not a blowout and so I would be a little careful on like you're just giving up five and a half right yeah yeah so I think Oklahoma here you like Oklahoma I love Oklahoma here okay that's a preview of the the norm model three leg parlay that we're going to be giving out in a second I love Oklahoma minus five and a half

1:13:11although even though the line not moving kind of concerns me but whatever yeah you know early and you got to go the gut feel here okay there's a line coming up now that I'm really struggling with Iowa State and Iowa I it's like 14 14 and a half depending on where you see the line check out the fire keepers eye casino and sports book app also you just had on the daisies tap room fire keepers casino and watch the game and have the full fire keepers experience or again front 43 and casking company but let me let me read you some results Jason of this rivalry and and I think Iowa State is a diminished roster they lost a lot of their best guys with Matt Campbell to Penn State but last year Iowa State 16 Iowa 13 two years ago Iowa State 20 Iowa 19 one point game then it was then it was a seven point game then a three point game then a ten point game then a one point game then a ten point game then a three point game you have to go back to ten years to get a blowout and there's a stretch where Iowa State was not very good for a couple years and Iowa really thumbed them

1:14:11but you know you're going back ten years since this thing was more than ten points in its 14 points and Iowa do you trust him at 14 I think Iowa is pretty good let me see the sicko's but in 14 and a half I just can't do it I just can't do it I'm on your slip I'm on Iowa State here I don't love Iowa State's team but I do not I'm not taking Iowa and a rivalry game more than 14 points I need to see it you have to show me first yeah right give me Iowa State in those two touchdowns especially 14 and a half yes it's even if you're in Iowa it's got it's got dr. Manley in 14 and a half that's the question I know he has integrity like you so he probably doesn't bet but it means seriously Scott doc if he lays 14 and a half the maybe but otherwise you're I can't imagine putting that bed in anywhere yeah no it's I mean it's obviously a fade and we're doing it for the fun but yeah all right to the NFL games the NFL is here less it's it's I mean I'm I'm fired up for this weekend and try and explain the core wire schedules can be different and nap times are certain things has been interesting you know like this is when the games are don't

1:15:13just 12 hours of the day you need to be asleep um saints at lions saints minus seven I love this in teasers and I and I wouldn't throw anybody off a you can find some some money line parles with the lions and Oklahoma and things like that there's some other probably decent options out there as well um but saints it's seven out taking the lines at home I think they're going to be fired up for the season I think coming out of last year I like some of the things have going for them but I just think the lions are a better roster and at home I'd like the seven and give me the lions here to to when comfortably by a couple scores and have that feel good opener whether the whole season goes that way I don't know I just feel like this I feel like this week will I'm on the lions Jason where are you or what's this number at seven seven six and a half yeah yeah if the Saints can come in here I'm worried about that there are secondary yeah but I think that the lions get off to a hot start and we beat them by two touchdowns come on it's the saints at home first game let's go

1:16:18okay Packers Vikings at Minnesota Vikings minus one and a half here um this is uh I've gone back and forth on this I actually really like the Packers for a while now I like the Vikings which means I should stay the hell away from this game because I just Kyler Murray yeah people invested Kyler Murray early season Kyler Murray is always fun so who knows and I feel like in the dome first game there'll be a lot of feel good vibes feel good vibes I'm probably reading way too much into with the lions the Vikings because I like the Packers as a team this year but I like Minnesota's defense I think a week one Kyler Murray works I'm I'm gonna go with the home team here um minus one and a half Jason I really like the Vikings here just because I don't know without Josh Jacobs and you got Marcia Lloyd going in for Green Bay at running back I just especially on the road give me the Vikings at home especially with that low of a spread I kind of like Minnesota okay lastly yeah bills of Texan is in prime time um I uh I love Josh Allen and I think he's one of those quarterbacks that if you gave me one guy right now in the NFL that you

1:17:25had to choose as a quarterback it would be Josh Allen which is you know given my opinion of him on this show when when things were started your college is one of my worst takes of all time you think I've got some bad takes my Josh Allen take at the beginning is as epicly horrible it's when you hated white people even more though that's true that's true and he was from my Wyoming yeah I love things going against right I think the Texans defense is outstanding and I you know a home dog I know it's slight you know one and a half I'm I'm on the Texans here I just I love Josh Allen I love I think the bills will be in the playoffs again all that I just think the Texans are pretty good and I'm on the Texans here um and I this is one of those games that if I could go either way if I could tease it too and you give me up to like seven and a half of the Texans or whatever I really like it what does that pay out minus one nine well you have to use it with another game you know you stand with you tease works but you tease the lines and the Texans all the sudden you're in a really good place so I'm going with the Texans where you teasers are so scary sometimes bills on the road Texans minus I come on it's basically a

1:18:32pick them giving the Texans with that defense yeah yeah the bills what if the what is it what is it what what's the price on bills missing the playoffs this year I do I mean like someone something like that and Allen getting away with all these things forever scurrying injuries he's a tough SOB but anyway give me the Texans all right that is our week one picks and then you also have norm as coming out with football picks this year the normal baby yeah we also have some anytime touchdown stuff to that we're going to be sprinkling on a brink for Sunday but this is a three leg parlay we talked about it Oklahoma at Michigan minus five and a half no line movement scary to me but I just don't understand with everything that's gone on Oklahoma doesn't come in at minus five and a half and gets the win and covers that everybody's talking about how Michigan's going to go eight and four basically picking Oklahoma even Michigan people are saying there's no way they beat Oklahoma right so give me Oklahoma minus five and a half Oregon minus 22 and a half at Oklahoma state

1:19:34and I know Oregon last week kind of toyed around with Boise and everybody's up for great alarm with Oregon but I just feel Oklahoma state that program is an absolute disarray I mean they absolutely mean anyway so give me Oregon minus 22 and a half at Oklahoma state and to round it out three leg parlay we're going to do an NFL panthers plus three versus the bears and you know why that is the dominant after the bears no I like Dominic okay just a shame he's a bears fan I love my wife it's a shame that she's a bears fan my all my in-laws are bears fans and it's a complete shame either way you love some of them but the bears you know they're a big public favor everybody's loving the bears and what do we do when we hear a public favorite a absolutely go the other way and you take the panthers plus three is how good could it would it be if I get the first two legs of this in the college slate and then on Sunday I get to root against the bears to round out this plus 6 19 three leg parlay so give me the panthers panthers plus

1:20:37three Oregon minus 22 and a hook and Oklahoma minus five and a half oh it's good I am the more I think about like the Bryce hundredwood situation I don't think people quite grass like if you don't have a quarterback who can separate you it is so hard to win in college football it doesn't mean you can't do it some weeks you know like you give a great example is a Michigan state term is like the 2012 season very good defense not their most elite you know great running back okay offensive line just didn't have a passing game that could separate you and it's just every every win is a grind everything is difficult and it just wears on a season it's hard to be much more than 500 you have some player props do you want no I sorry I didn't write those in oh okay I'm gonna have some okay look for the North North fix excellent that's okay that is what we are betting this weekend presented by our

1:21:37friends at firekeepers and the firekeepers I casino and sports book app we appreciate them we also appreciate our friends at front 43 neighborhood pub and casking company kitchen a bar great place for just any occasion for a work lunch I'm telling you it's when people ask me where should I take somebody it's front 43 and it's casking company two distinct vibes one fantastic menu drink selection all that stuff great place to watch games for a date for a business lunch unbelievable menu at casking company dot com we appreciate Sean and Andrew coming on for and talking about their new venture with the free sports show and we'll be back on Friday with some groovy donut Twitter questions good show man yeah man touch in the room