Ep. - 1551 - LADIES OF LONDON: THE NEW REIGN

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Welcome back for another episode of reality life with K Casey and I've got a new show for you to watch it premieres this week.

It is called Ladies of London the new rain on Bravo. Now many of you are going to remember ladies of London which first aired on Bravo.

It quickly became a cult favorite because it blended British aristocracy. You had ambitious American expats and then the sometimes ruthless world of London high society so as you can imagine right at my alley.

Now the world is back with ladies of London like I said the new rain and just like before it's not something about wealth or titles this one is about power influence and who truly belongs in one of the most exclusive social circles in the world.

I say that all of us are just cultural anthropologists. This is one of those shows where their lives are so dissimilar to ours and we're just unpacking their personalities and the social dynamics.

This new cast brings together a mix of people who sit at the crossroads of tradition and modern fame.

So you have members of the old aristocracy like lady Emma so she's the Martianess of bath and she made history as the first black Martianess in Britain.

And then you have Martha sit well whose life story includes if you can believe this homelessness reinvention as a model and a return to London's elite circles.

Now you have a socialite Mark French is Mandela. Now he's known for his wit impeccable manners and he's got all these deep ties to international high society.

So he's one of those people who walks into a restaurant and gets stopped by every single table. Now in addition to this you see global wealth and media influence through figures like Kimi Murdoch.

She's bringing the international glamour. And then you have model me say Betery and she's truly one of the most beautiful women that has ever been on screen.

Then you have American expats that are navigating the rules of British society. You have an etiquette expert by the name of Mika Meyer and then an actress and filmmaker by the name of Margot Stilly.

And then a younger generation represented by socialite lotty Kane who is a designer and somebody I think embodies the modern influencer era version of high society.

So you've got all these figures who orbit this world and appear throughout the season, including on the side, I feel like she kind of dips in and out.

Architect and designer Dara Huang. Now why is this interesting? Well, it is because she shares a son with the husband of Princess Beatrice, the daughter of Prince Andrew.

So you've got a connection that places us just one degree away from British royal family, which I think underscores how intertwine London's elite social aristocratic and then royal circles can be.

So in this world centuries old titles collide with modern branding and social media influence and of course international power.

So connections or currency, reputation is everything and in London's elite circles, the crown isn't just the only thing up for grabs.

So I thought to myself, who can I bring on that can break down to us what it's like to live in London, how these social circles operate, the cool neighborhoods to live.

Is it hard for outsiders to come in? I wanted somebody who could provide for us all of the nuance.

And my guest today is executive producer Christian Vesper. Now Christian happens to be married to Brian Moilin, who many of you know and love from his New York Times best selling books, his Vulture columns, and of course the Bravo recaps and episodes that he's done with me over the years.

Christian Brian moved to London about six years ago because Christian is a season B executive. He's also the former president and CEO of global drama at Fremantle, where he oversaw a wide portfolio of international scripted productions.

So he's in the scripted world, Brian's in the unscripted world and together they live this like fabulous life in London. I can't get enough of their stories.

So again, I asked Christian to break down life in London, the city's unique social dynamics, what makes London such a fascinating setting for a show like this.

And we also talk about how the city's mix of aristocracy, global wealth, creative industries and international newcomers creates this interesting social ecosystem.

So I love this interview because I feel like you're going to be armed with all of the information that you need as you begin to watch ladies of London a new reign and who doesn't want a new show to add to their portfolio of options each week.

I'm telling you, you're going to like this one. So here is my interview with Christian Christian, thrilled to see you again. How are you? Welcome to the show.

It's been a while. It's been a while. Last time we were together was at the quiet woman of was of all places. Yes, where else would we be?

Well, I'm delighted to have you today. And of course, you are not only married to Brian, but you are also the financier of the Real Housewives Institute, which is probably the most important job of all doing God's work.

I believe so supporting God's work, supporting God's work. Well, so tell me a little bit about how you ended up in London and people should know that in your previous life, you were in attorney, which makes me so happy.

So, so, so previous. I ended up in London. I came over to be the run the drama business and film business for a studio, a small studio, European studio called Fremantle in the US. They make American Idol and got talent, but I oversaw TV series and films there across Europe and the US.

And so, what was that daunting? The idea of going to London, were you excited about it? I mean, it is a big jump. It is a big move.

Yeah, I was excited about it. I had so I grew up near you in Southern California, went to New York for 20 something years and then had been in London for eight.

I may, I'm a city person. I like big cities and some ways and lots of people. And so it wasn't, you know, New York is London or similar. So it wasn't intimidating from that perspective. I also had spent many years working in the London, between London and LA and New York on projects, on series and movies. And so the world was pretty familiar. But, you know, it is definitely different.

Now, since you work in the film industry, do you find that in your, in your life outside of work that you like to study people, like almost like everybody seems like a character in their own right?

Yeah, I mean, I, this is part of my grand delusion, I suppose, but I, in New York and in London, I walk around thinking I'm in a film and, you know, like living in places that are quite cinematic.

And, you know, I guess everyone thinks of the star of their own movie. I'm sort of like a secondary character in my own movie. But I, you know, I like to watch everybody.

So when you get to London, right off, right off the mark, what, what are you thinking in terms of how it differs from other cities?

We had heard, and I had heard even traveling here a lot, that people are quite, they keep to themselves. They don't, you know, once people have gone to university here, they've kind of made all of their friends, and they don't really let people in very easily.

And there is a, a reticence that's very different than in America, and certainly in New York, where everyone's from somewhere else and anyone will talk to you about anything at any given time of the day.

It's not that here. That said, I knew a lot of people, so I, and I'm quite, in some ways, I guess I have that American quality, but I'll just talk to anyone about anything.

I do feel like Brian always has some great story about a dinner party that you went to and the cast of characters that you meet along the way.

Yeah, I mean, I think luckily because of what I do and who Brian is, we tend to get invited to some pretty interesting dinner parties. And, and I think Brian is a good dinner party guest, because he's interesting and, and no one sort of the world that he inhabits of housewives and pop culture is quite unique to the world that I inhabit.

So it's always a nice mix. And I think that the British in particular, like his, you know, sort of stupid sense of humor, and they love a, a pun and Brian loves pun.

So he's been, he's been easy to bring around here. And then I, I think, you know, it's, it's a, it's a big city. A lot of interesting people and you just have to kind of go out and find them.

Now, there have been a few occasions where he will tell me that the most unsuspecting person is an enormous reality TV fan fan. For example, Tilda Swinton, he said she loves real housewives has there been somebody else in your experience at one of these parties that surprised you how much.

But, you know, that person and Brian were kind of off on the side talking about something like love Island.

Yeah, no, it's always surprising. Yeah, I mean, Tilda, we met at a party at the Venice full festival. And it was her film with Alma Dovar that she was there for glamorous, like extraordinary.

And once she met Brian, all these other famous people kept coming up to her to say congratulations. And she just kind of nod and smile.

Then turn back to Brian and ask about Durinda, you know, or ask, you know, she obsessed with Durinda. And I think New York is really her favorite housewives. So it always is surprising.

I'd recently at the new Academy membership London welcome party, which ended up being much more glamorous than I had expected.

Pat with all the stars in town in town for the film festival and Academy members. And I was kind of nervous and shy, which is rare for me.

So kind of walked in. I was kind of keeping a low profile. The first person to make a b-line toward me, I thought was the woman that runs the tell your right film festival, who is kind of I find intimidating in general.

And she makes the b-line goes, right, pass me to Brian Boyland. And so, oh my God, your Brian Boyland, I worship you.

And, you know, the tell right film festival is quite, you know, premium.

And, and, and, and smile.

And it's high brow. And, and she's apparently been reading Brian since he was writing for gocker. So that kind of thing. And I think that we were at the National Theatre recently.

And, and he got cornered by someone there, so he did strange how many, how many fans you wrote here.

I love it. Well, okay, we'll talk a little bit about London. In this show, you do feel like London almost feels like its own character on the show, which of course is the best kind of show.

Coming from the States, what do you think makes London such a fascinating backdrop for any story that has to do with like wealth or status or social circles?

Yeah, I think I was even having spent a lot of time here studying English history in English literature, a lot for an American.

I was surprised at how ingrained class is still in the UK. And it's very, very nuanced. And, and everyone judges you first by your accent.

And, and they kind of deny that's true, but then they, they all do it. And, and it's, there's this constant dialogue about that person's posh, that person's not.

And if you're posh, you probably didn't earn necessarily what you have. And, and, you know, it's interesting that the right here is sort of more like the Democrats at home and the left is very far left.

And so it's just weird social dynamic. And I think that it's great for TV because for an American, it's, it's fascinated to dissect. And you stand outside of that.

I mean, you're neither posh or not posh because you're just some vulgar American no matter what. And, and it gives you, you know, the ability to kind of navigate between both sides.

And I think that it also was fascinating, though, is the depth of society here and the, the, the certainty of it.

We were at a lunch and a couple summers ago.

And the friend of mine who's a writer, he's married to this guy who was building a studio here in London. And I'm on the board of that. And so, you know, again, did not know a lot of people.

The first thing I stepped in as I had, I dragged too much at lunch and was going on and on about how stupid the honor system is, you know, serves and nights.

And then the, then I didn't realize I was sitting next to an MP, a member of parliament who then told me he had just been knighted.

But you just kind of run into that. And then across from us was a woman whose son Peregrin was helping the strings. He was like 13 or 14. And he had a suit on. It was a garden party.

And we found out that she was in town from Hong Kong to visit her son at boarding school.

And his, his sports day was on him that they come in Monday. We said, Oh, are you here to go to the sports here? She's well, no, I'm going to ask up.

I didn't even occur to her that she would bother going to the sports day at the school. Ascot was what she had flown around the world for.

And I kind of love that. It's fascinating. Like it's real. You know, and then I think on the reality shows that you don't get a lot of that actual.

Yeah.

There's a lot of other strict radicals, but it filters down everyone is measuring themselves themselves against that.

Mm hmm.

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One point in the show they say there's this American says they're kind of three categories of the royalty of the aristocracy and then you have the socialites.

Yes.

How big a gap is between those groups and would the royals ever associate with the socialites.

I mean famously they did with Glenn Maxwell and Andrew I mean and I think that they would take the lesson from that that you just shouldn't.

I think that they do I think that you know everyone into most everyone intersects pretty easily these days because of business because of.

You know the world is more open than it used to be the establishment here is very very strong and and and defense itself very well but it's been broken into over the last 50 years by middle class people in middle class in England means rich but not.

It can mean anything from our version of middle class to rich but not aristocratic it's anyone that and it's considered a bad thing to be to be middle class because you're not a socialite I mean not a socialist but you're also not an aristocrat you know I personally think it's the people who we would like the ones that just work hard and are smart and have got got themselves someplace in the world.

But I think that there is there's an interaction between the top and them and then the bottom of the top because really the money is now with the socialite class.

So if you are someone who grows up middle class and then you create some company and app or whatever it is and you make an enormous amount of money even with that would you ever be truly accepted by the aristocrats or the royals.

Not like the the royals are not I think certain aristocracy but you're never one of them you know it's sort of like the um.

What is that you're younger than I am but when we were kids they had the preppy handbook oh yeah I actually met the author at least a bird box amazing and the whole idea of not our kind here and okay D and it's really strong here like they'll have you dinner they might have you.

To hunt or something like that but you're never them you know you're never of you're never of that no matter what house you buy in a better.

You know and if you contribute enough to a political party they'll make you a lord or or you'll be part of the House of Lords but you're never quite really part of their team.

Is there a sort of insecurity for lack of a better term between the aristocrats and the royals like are they always cognizant of the fact like.

It doesn't matter if I have a home named after me or I married this person but I will never be accepted as one of them.

I mean I think yeah I think look the the the established aristocratic establishment has just set the rules in a way that they're impenetrable and they become less and less relevant to the true functioning of society as time goes on a lot of them lost their houses but they have their titles they have their codes.

And they have all of that to fall back on and then some of them are still quite rich I think the richest man in England the Duke of Westminster is still his family and he owns most of the central London and even if you buy a house in central London there's like an underlying rent that you pay to him.

It's very like there and I think though that the the next level down that would be on a show like ladies of London I mean I think you know.

I don't think there's much of a resentment because I think you you know people here now carve out their own space or there are people like I loved in the first ladies of London the woman who's very to the role of sandwich.

Juliet Montague.

Juliet Montague.

She's he's legit you know they're legit she and if you marry into it you can kind of actually become it to a certain extent.

One of the things that she explained to me was the the the plight of the new homeowner like so there the castle in which they live they have to maintain it because if they can't then the government basically takes over it so it's constantly thinking of new ways to make money to maintain a property like that and she's been very savvy with that she's done a lot online and people can take doors and so one of the cast members Emma.

She and her husband created a zoo and so people can come and visit but so despite the properties and the land and the and the access to specific parties it does seem like even for that set there's a constant worry about money.

Yeah I mean you look at the the houses are extraordinary like the upkeep on them is and and they have a thing here called the national trust which started after the first World War where this they they decided to start.

Basically sponsoring aristocrats to stay in their homes so long as they open them up to the public and tours and preserve their houses part of history and I think that's what Julie and her husband they you generally wanted to be part of the national trust is their tax breaks and it enables you to make the money you need to keep up the property.

But yeah I think that's a constant I mean you they you're and you have to be so rich to I mean I mean how do you manage like a hundred room house you know.

I have no idea yeah how do you think how different is London's high society today compared to the very traditional image the people outside the UK still have so when you go home you go back to California and what people perceive as what is London's high society in relation to what you have seen.

Living there.

I mean it's still that you still want to be invited to do things with the King and Queen and the you know the Prince of Wales and the Princess of Wales that's still the ultimate kind of place where you want to be.

I think what's interesting here is they don't have a huge culture of charity.

So in philanthropy so there aren't a lot of the parties that you get in New York or Beverly Hills for example that kind of define society like in New York which where I live for a long time it was the ballet the opera the library every you defined to become like the chairwoman of the board of the met that was.

The ultimate high society here it really is just based on how rich you are or how aristocratic you are and sort of the and the mix sometimes at the at the events.

So I remember seeing pictures of a specific party I think it's called the serpentine.

Yeah so who gets invited to a party like that well the serpentine it's it's it's about art and so it'll be a mix of like art world.

Grandees cool galorists artists and you know people that are you know rich people and aristocrats it's actually a very very good broad distillation of what society is here what high society is.

It's one of the few parties that is like that's when we're a Diana war her revenge dress was at the serpentine party famously.

Is it true that money alone doesn't buy entry into certain circles in London totally yeah I mean I think.

Again the aristocrats are the aristocrats you're not good you can't buy your way into that I think then.

Then it becomes about where you went to school and that's a little bit of a pop thing like you into Cambridge or Oxford or couple of the other schools like you're part of your you're you're assumed to be belong to another tier of society whether or not you're rich you know.

Be a poet and still that's your your your place it's a little bit less fluid I think than in the US where money seems to be the primary primary fee.

Do people still consider or do they consider seeing Andrews to be higher high tier yeah it's posh but it's very posh I don't I think people still think academically.

It's weird here because there's like there's a ton of great schools but in their people's minds it's still Oxford or Cambridge and they judge you if you went there or didn't go there yeah accordingly.

And it's interesting in my business how many people like it's it's a went either those two schools and they're called lovies.

Yeah it means that they're kind of posh went to went to those schools went to boarding schools or private schools and are very left winged so they kind of have this bad repeat yeah Emma Thompson and Stephen Fry are all considered lovies like they live in North London.

They judge people here on every little detail.

Thanks.

In this show you have an American and God bless her business is etiquette lessons I'm like I'm you're like asking to be ripped apart exactly someone walks into a room and they went to university of Florida or people like get out while you can.

I think again because you fear an American they won't even they won't have any concept of you know of what that even means really so and if you have a good personality you'll probably be fine because you're already it out you're not cited by definition.

And look I mean here they know a handful schools in the US so I think it's just everything else will just go right by him.

So if you're like oh I went to Auburn and I was in sigma capa blabby blah they're like well we don't know what the hell that means.

Yeah they wouldn't even hear it would just be like noise so.

Okay well I'm interested in the neighborhood situation because on a show like this you hear a lot of judgment about where someone lives and that was certainly true of the first ladies of London as well.

So I'm assuming that the neighborhoods can signal status in a big way so what are the areas in which the most elite people are living is it may fair nodding Hill Chelsea Belgrade because I remember when I was trying to make a show during

the COVID about female CEOs in London there was one woman I interviewed and she talked about Ashley lived in Belgrade and talked about it as if it was the most elite place that anybody had ever lived.

Yeah I mean look I think the standard notion is that the the poshest people live in Kensington night's bridge Belgrade and May fair.

And that's sort of traditionally for a long time in the case and it's where you know Sloan square which is the Sloan Rangers which is Diana was famously part of the Sloan Rangers said.

It's changed it continues to evolve may fair is now honestly a lot of foreign money same with a lot of that part of London I some friends that you know live in a townhouse off of Sloan square.

And they had a young son and they can play in that half of their neighbors at least lived in the Middle East Asia full time and this is their London.

You know 15 million dollar.

Yeah.

So they're not even there it's not like you can up there not going to schools because they're just kind of dip in it now.

Okay.

So that was it was difficult when they had a young kid before school started because there was just no one.

Around even though it's very densely populated and so I think that part of London is very beautiful it's close to it's closer to the Heathrow than where we are.

It's in the center of things it's beautiful to the park but it you know it's not as.

It's not the only place that finances and and you know very rich people live I mean.

Not in Hill used to be kind of cut when I started coming to London the 90s it was cool now it's very kind of American bankers Brian refused to even look west west because he didn't want to live where there were too many strollers and too many rich American women said a little bias against that.

I think I think a lot of the people that see themselves as socialites would would would feel they had to live in west London which are all those neighborhoods.

I think though the reality is north London hamstead is incredibly nice.

A little bit more you know rich people that belong to the labor party actors a lot of actors a lot of rich creatives where we live which is East London is more like.

East village a little bit of can be west villagy but very much like the you know the cool kids or the cool middle aged men like me and Brian you know where do they aristocrats live.

I mean traditionally they built townhouses in west London and so that sort of how that all started and I think that again I think there was an article in.

Tatler or the times a couple years ago about how all the young.

Title kids are moving to hackney which is East London.

Because it's cool and you know they don't want to be seen as stuffy old.

The risk for that so I think it's that's more that few diverse I think.

If you insist on living in and nice bridges because you're a bit conservative or new.

I love me fair to hang out in my fair but you wouldn't live there you know.

Interesting well yeah I got the sense to bell gravy I was like older people maybe.

It is again I think it's a lot of older people it's right behind Buckingham Palace and it's a lot of kind of older people and another again I think overseas owners.

And you know and bankers and stuff like that but it's quiet it's lovely I mean that's it's very beautiful.

No when I will start watching the show I notice that the the women all kind of have their own style and a lot of bold prints red lip which I enjoy.

Yeah.

But it makes you feel like American women are much more muted.

If someone walks into a restaurant what would make you think oh that person is so London.

People.

You know when you're going to nice places in general people dress better here than in London not in England but in London dress better than most Americans.

It's like New York in that way it's it's a capital city and it's a city that's dense and people present themselves you know they don't dress as casually as in California or or most of the US.

I think the there is there is a tendency to go for bright colors I think because it's sort of dreary yeah all the time that makes sense and yeah and it's not as black and gray as like Paris or or New York it has a little bit more flair to it.

I think what's most interesting is even even though there are a lot of great dermatologists and surgeons in London the faces are more natural.

Oh that's nice.

Then in like Beverly Hills or New York and and took me a while to get used to it how um you're like I kind of like what what's wrong with your face you're aging you know you kind of like you know which is which is actually quite nice you know the pressures of it.

It's here and it's what I think it's considered trashy to have like too much work.

God bless geez that sounds wonderful.

Not you don't see Mar-a-Lago face here.

Interesting okay boy like that the show um kind of describes connections as currency in real life how do people actually build influence in London's social world or is it maybe not even that possible.

Yeah I don't know I mean I'm not I'm I you know my experience has just been in the entertainment business which is I understand well and it's about work.

You know I everything I do is about work and about furthering work and meeting people through work that can talk about what I like to talk about I think.

If you came to London it takes a lot of work there really does I mean you have to because you don't have again those charitable opportunities aren't there that you would normally.

I mean I remember when my mother moved to Santa Barbara when she retired and she retired quite young.

She met a lot of people by joining the boards of the music society in the museums and they don't quite you know do that here the same way so I think it takes.

It takes knowing having a friend that can get you invited to things.

Interesting yeah that's that's a very close that's a.

Or you just find your set you have to kind of you have to make individual friends and hope the set expands from there.

And do they have private clubs there.

Yeah they have a lot of clubs I mean they're mainly have traditionally mainly been lots of private clubs for men.

And and people meet that way you know they have social clubs like Annabelle's and five heart for street and and.

All as walls which all have their different vibe and then.

There's a place which I'm obsessed with called the Herlingham club which is right in the middle of town and it has like a nine hole golf course.

It's where it's where princess of what the princess of Wales plays tennis and I have a friend who belongs or he was like a he inherited it from his father.

And um it's in the middle of town and you drive in and there are play and and and grass tennis courts separated by creeks and bridges and it's just.

So you can be people to that way but again you have to still get in.

You know it's tricky and can you tell if somebody is a British social climber like is it as a parent as it is in America.

Yeah it's even more apparent because I think you because most people wouldn't want to be seen as that so you know.

You know what it's any sort of outward expression of ambition be a professional or social is looked down upon here.

You know it's an American in business that's interesting because you actually can go far here by just because you're a little bit more naturally ambitious or you're willing to look it.

You know my friends and the entertainment business that are English and have done real British have done really well are the ones that are.

A little bit more aggressive than the average bridge.

What do you think is the biggest misconception that Americans have about life or the people that live in London I think I'm always amused by this notion that.

With the Americans have that all the English for kind of posh and dignified and and down to an abyss and or you know i.

They're they're not I mean they have their own trashiness I mean the the drinkings insane um and the.

Yeah they're not they're not that dignified actually which I think Americans seem to think they're more quiet they're a little bit more polite but you know.

We were in Tokyo over Christmas and Brian and I were talking about how the Japanese make both brits and Americans just like pigs you know just like.

Yeah you know yeah so it's it's it's not I think that's the biggest misconception I think that um.

But you know the best part though is they're funny I mean they genuinely I was going to ask you.

Day to day funny I mean and they use the language well and yeah and the various snowman clatures and and it's really fun that part of it and we.

In our old house the butcher up I mean drink of it one had to like buy their own food so I go to the butcher which was a new thing for me.

And the guy there always called me gov for real like.

What do you need today governor like oh my god this is like TV yeah so it's fun.

If someone dropped and we're dropped into London's high society for the first time what would surprise them the most.

I think it's pretty narrow you know it's a different you know each each each slice of the high society here is pretty specific whereas I think in the US it can be a little bit more open minded I think I think that that would surprise them I think that um.

And again it money isn't the thing it's it's where do you come from what it what do you what don't you do or if you do something.

What is it rather than you know there's a there's the stratum of like the Beckins and things like that that's again that's on high society really that's entertainment entertainment like pop culture culture celebrity.

Well I think everyone's going to be even more excited watch the show now that we have this further context and one woman in particular I'm excited to hear what you think about she's an architect and her name's Dara and she's quite snobby and then you find out that she had a child with the now husband of.

Prince Andrews daughter.

So she says Mapa Mapa she says oh it's wonderful I feel like my son has the best opportunity because he has all of these parents that love him so deeply and I thought you want to talk shit so bad but you can't yeah because that would be an issue.

So when you look at what what happens to you know yeah yeah you have to we're round all that stuff it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a landmine you know and the press here what's interesting is it's a small place even though the city is like 10 million people that's most of England and so it's very easy to end up in the tabloids here.

Just get brutalized by them there's nothing better to me than watching a show that is has characters and a landscape that is so dissimilar to the people that I meet every day or what I look out you know the window and see and I think this might be a big hit for everybody so yeah well tell me what you're working on now.

I'm actually between gigs but we've got I'm a producer on Bagonia which is up for best picture next week and I didn't you know I worked on the financing side and you know I'm kind of finishing up on a bunch of films that we had going into production we just had a new ritual white film going to production called sands on a wet afternoon.

Which I'm very excited about and to which I'll stay attached and then yeah other than that it's it's it's I have you know I'm planning my next my next act yes well do you think you'll stay in London or do you think you'll eventually go somewhere new.

I hope so my sort of specialty is you know cross border production and distribution and development and all that stuff and I.

I think I fit in well here and I'm a good conduit for a lot of American businesses into the UK yeah so I'd like to stay here but you never know you may see me down at the quiet woman again I would hope so friend and I know you're going back to LA next week so I

congratulations on Bagonia that's so exciting yeah we're very excited about it yeah as you should be well thank you for the work that you've done for the Real Housewives Institute we really do appreciate it.

Sure yes some of your finest work.

Thank you so much thank you.

I want to thank my great guest Christian Vesper I want to remind you to make sure that you click follow and subscribe to this podcast and leave a five star review.

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