Ep. - 1562 - BORN TO BOWL

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Welcome back for another episode of Reality Life with Kate Casey, and I've got a great

episode for you.

So today we're going to talk about a sport that most of us have played at birthday parties,

late-night bowling alleys, or maybe even on a first date where you rent those gross shoes

that never quite fit.

But what if I told you that behind that familiar clatter of pins is actually one of the

most intense professional sports tours in America.

The new HBO documentary series Born to Bowl pulls back the curtain on the world of professional

bowlers association tour.

Now, it's a five-part series.

It is the executive produced by Ben Stiller and directed by James Lee Hernandez and Brian

Lazard.

It follows five of the sports biggest stars as they chase titles, prize money, and something

that feels almost mythic in bowling culture, legacy.

Now if you think bowling is simple, the documentary reminds you very quickly that it is anything

but.

So what it's core bowling is played over 10 frames.

In each frame, a player gets two chances to knock down 10 pins with a ball that weighs

up to 16 pounds.

Knock the ball down on the first throw.

That's a strike.

Now do it in two.

That's a spare.

And here's where it gets interesting.

This in spares earn bonus points based on your next throws, which means every roll

echoes forward into the future.

So a perfect game, 12 strikes in a row, scores 300.

But achieving that requires extraordinary precision, mental endurance, and then the ability

to read constantly changing oil patterns on the lane.

Yes, oil patterns.

So professional bowling lanes are intentionally conditioned with oil that changes how the

ball moves.

So it's forcing players to adjust angles, speed, and spend throughout a match.

So what looks like a casual roll is actually a chess match played at 20 miles an hour.

And culturally, bowling has always had a strange and wonderful place in American life.

It's both blue collar pastime and cinematic symbol.

So I want you to think of the Big Lebowski, where bowling becomes a stage for philosophy,

absurdity, and unforgettable characters like the dude.

Playing alleys have shown up everywhere, from noir films to comedies to documentaries,

because these incredibly social spaces are where personalities collide.

And that's exactly what Warnable captures so beautifully.

So again, the series is going to follow five elite competitors on the PBA tour.

So Kyle Troop instantly is recognizable for his massive afro and electric personality.

And he grew up in a bowling family and brings a showman's energy to every lane.

Benny Simonson is a prodigy who turned professional as a teenager and bulls with a fearless intensity

that's made him one of the most formidable players on tour.

EJ Tackett is a relentless competitor known for his power game and laser focus consistency.

Jason Belmonte is the Australian legend who revolutionized the sport with his two-handed

delivery.

And he became one of the most dominant players in modern bowling history.

And then Cameron Crowe, another compelling figure, navigating the pressures of life on

tour, and the grind of a sport that demands constant travel, resilience, and mental toughness.

Now what's fascinating about this series is that when you first start watching, it almost

feels like fiction.

The personalities are so vivid, the rivalry is so intense, and then the culture of professional

bowling is so specific that it feels like someone carefully crafted these characters.

But these are real people, real bowlers, real stories, and some of the retired legends

who appear throughout the series are so funny and eccentric.

You would swear that they were written by a screenwriter.

And they're not.

They're just part of this incredible world of bowling.

And that's why this documentary works so well.

It captures the humor of the grit, kind of the oddball charm, and the genuine drama of

a sport that most of us thought that we understood until we realized we had no idea.

I absolutely loved this series.

It is funny, it's surprising, and it's a fascinating look at a sub-culture that deserves

way more attention.

So today, I am with the directors behind Warnable, James Lee Hernandez, and Brian Lesart

about how they found their stories, what it was like embedding themselves into the world

of the PBA tour.

And why bowling might just be the most cinematic sport that you never thought about.

Here is my interview.

Thrilled to have you, loved the series.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you.

So an unlikely topic.

What first sparked your interest in the world of professional bowling?

How did this begin as a project?

Well, it started as, in general, the spark for us was the idea that, I mean, if you're

raised in America, you have some sort of connection to bowling.

Whether you grew up in a league or you went out with some friends as an adult or, I mean,

almost everybody went to a some birthday between a grade school.

I, that was at a bowling alley.

And it all started with, there was a photographer named Jared Bowen.

He started, he'll shoot a lot of different sports, a lot of different things.

He went and photographed Kyle Troop, and when he went to go photograph, Kyle, one of

our characters.

He realized there's a much bigger world here, brought in some friends, Tommy and Isaac,

and they started just filming, just not knowing what it's going to be.

And at a certain point, they're like, this really should be something.

And then, you know, other like us as documentary filmmakers, you know, A24, Mike Tolen, Ben

Stiller, Blue Pixel, like all these different companies start to come in together and like,

okay, there really is something here.

How do we crack it though?

Because usually when you see professional bowling or when you see bowling in general,

it's a comedy.

It's some movie or TV show, and it's, you know, part of the joke.

And what we wanted to do is we came at it with, we want to let funny things be funny because

inherently bowling has some funny things to it.

But these guys are living and dying by every single roll down the lane.

If they don't make money, they can't provide for their family.

So the stakes are so much higher than any other professional sport, all while still being

kind of fun and fun.

Funny.

So we wanted to balance those two things together within this world to show you the

light, the levity portion of it and the intensity of it all.

So when you start to approach some of the players, are they also concerned, look, people kind

of make fun of our sport?

We want people to take it seriously.

So did it hinder anything like as far as getting access?

No, no.

Fortunately, all every single one of the the bowlers who participated and really the entire

bowling community is very, very open and wanting to see their sport get the, the acknowledgement

getting like getting more eyeballs, getting people to realize that like it is a really,

really challenging technique to master the skills that they have to master.

And they opened their doors, they opened their lives to us.

It was one of the most incredible, and it's a testament to who they are as people, as

athletes.

And a lot of people talk about how they go to watch bowlers because they're sitting

right on the sidelines.

It's like, you can't go to an NBA unless you have a lot of money, right?

You can't go to an NBA game and sit right on the edge and interact with the athletes.

But in pro bowling, you can do that.

And it's a really cool thing.

It's very personal.

And a lot of the bowlers have forged friendships and relationships with fans who come, like

we met people who were like bringing cakes and cookies and like, kind of they come to

town, like we go and we support.

So it's really cool to see that all come together.

How do you decide on who to follow?

There are five dynamic personalities, but I would assume that there were several people

that were in consideration, but why these five?

You really have to look at everything as a whole.

You start to look at the combination of things that we want to show.

Of course you want to show the best bowlers in the world.

So Jason Belmonte has been the best bowler and is considered largely by a lot of people

the best bowler ever for over a decade.

He is more master, he is more major wins than anybody else.

He's won the most money.

He's dominated.

And then you have AJ Ticket, who is the last three seasons, really taken over as the best.

He's won three players of the player of the year awards in the row.

He's going for his fourth, which has never been done before this year.

And then when we started to hear about them, but then you hear people say, Anthony Simonson

is the most talented person to ever touch a bowling ball.

Not like right now, he is the most out like ever in the history of bowling.

But he is a hothead and he can go off it all time.

So he goes, okay, well, he seems like somebody we should talk to.

And then you get into Kyle Troop, who was raised in bowling.

His dad was the most entertaining baller in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

And he was raised in that world and then he learned how to be entertaining from his dad.

And then he started to play really well and become that entertainer.

And so you think that.

So now you have four of the best bowlers in the world.

But the flip side of that is, what is this like for a rookie?

What is this like for someone who hasn't made any money yet and is fresh out of college?

And was really good in juniors and in college.

But now is the face pros that have been doing it for years and years and years.

And that's where we met up with Cam Crow and his electric personalities got a great smile.

And overall, he is just really good and everybody expects a lot from him.

But how does that play against guys who have been doing this for decades?

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The all the also nutty part about it is the rookie and one of the best players to play

at the sport are sharing a hotel room on the way to a tournament.

What are some of other surprising things that you came across as you began to study the

sport and all of the players as well?

Well, I mean, across, I mean, there are a lot of surprising things and we hope that when

people watch this series, there's a lot of unexpected moments within this series.

One of the things that I don't think we really understood was the way in which the oil

patterns affect the lanes.

Most of us thought like, well, why don't these guys get in three hundreds like every single

time?

Right.

They can do it if they wanted to, but the truth is every single one of these competitions,

there's a unique invisible pattern that's put on these lanes that makes it more challenging

for them.

And we get into it in the series in terms of like how that pattern changes over time with

other bowlers and it really frustrates you see the best bowlers like not being able to

figure out this puzzle that exists on the lane.

That's a huge, huge surprise and then just the surprise of who's going to make it, who's

going to win?

Like, once you're invested in the story and these characters and you realize like, it's

anybody's game and it can be down to the wire and who you want to win at the very end.

It's just like one wrong move or one lucky break can determine if that person is going

to have their year financially taking care of her or not.

I mean, there are a lot of stakes involved there.

Also, they're practically on top of each other and one other sport you think of.

The competitor is right next to you all the time and there's one moment when there's

one player in his back hurts and his biggest competitor is sitting right next to him.

That must drive them insane.

Yeah, it's like a traveling circus in a sense.

All traverse the country together while always trying to beat each other.

It is, and then they're bunking up together.

They're around each other all the time.

It is a really interesting push pull of the camaraderie, but also you want to beat their

head in.

So what's the template of a really successful bowl or how long have they been bowling?

Is there a certain mental game that it requires?

What about the physicality?

Are there injuries that they're prone to?

Well, I mean, obviously our series being called Born to Bowl for a lot of these guys,

they grew up in bowling out.

They spent their entire lives like dedicated having their parents take them to events

or in the case of Simon like it was his daycare, right?

So the more time you put in with anything like anything, you're just going to get better

at it.

And are there injuries like not in the same sense of like football players, there are

concussions in bowling by any stretch.

But every bowler takes a little bit differently, like some take their physical health a little

more seriously than others, some take their mental health.

I mean, it is a mental game, so they all have it with the challenges, the highs and

lows.

And boy, does it really beat them up?

One funny thing I thought of as I was watching this is a pertains to Anthony because having

covered last dance, you learned that Michael Jordan would create almost fights in his

head to keep him like elevated so that it would help him propel him to play harder.

And I wondered if you saw a little bit of that in Anthony as well, the way he's always

cursing and he's fighting with everybody, is that something that he's purposely doing

to play at an elevated level?

It's weird.

I think it is, that's a good example of finding that thing that gives you that extra edge.

And even in the series, you know, other players are talking about like, you know, he plays

better when he's mad.

And whether he's doing it consciously or not, it is like he does need that extra gear to

get the adrenaline boost to get him to a level to do that.

So there is that level of competitiveness where part of that fire, part of all of that

is what makes him so great.

So they're traveling throughout the season.

What is the season and how much is it costing them and are they getting any help financially

in terms of their hotels or transportation?

How much, what kind of cost does this include?

So the season is a four month season.

It's the start date kind of varies usually around February.

It starts in the year.

And they do have to pay an entry fee for every single tournament.

And they do not get support for hotel or gas money.

And they all have to, they all have to drive.

I mean, that's the thing is like, you can't, they travel with like 21 plus bowling balls,

right?

You can't live city to city.

So they are driving eight hours.

And if you win a tournament like EJ Attack, it does in our series in Vegas, he's got to

be in Detroit in 30 hours.

He's driving straight there from Reno to Detroit.

That, you know, that degree of, you know, challenge where yes, and that's why it's so important

for them to win a major.

If they win a major, not only do they win $100,000, which is what those pods usually are,

but what comes with that are sponsors and events and a number, a myriad of different ways

that you could actually make a living as a bowler to offset and compliment what your winnings

might be.

And so they're always trying to angle for like, okay, because you can have a great year,

one year.

You can make it.

I mean, not comparison to like another professional athlete, but like a working day average Joe,

like you can have, you can have a pretty decent year, but the majority don't have that.

The majority are paying out of pocket for their hotel rooms every single week and their

Airbnb's and paying gas money.

If they don't win, they're coming back with less money than they had when they left

the front door, you know, four months earlier.

These are part of you guys, or at least I know I would say this to you.

It almost feels like a hundred foot wave of bowling in terms of what was able to happen

because of the series and how Mercedes bends and all these big companies are now sponsoring

surfers.

Can you envision the same thing could happen because of this series where now they're getting

bigger and better sponsors, they're getting more support so that a lot of these costs

are offset.

We really hope so and the sport of bowling has had a really interesting history in general.

As we show in the in born to bowl in the show, is that bowling for a long time was one

of the most popular sports, as far as televised sports.

It had more higher ratings than the NFL, the NBA.

It had the first athlete to have a million dollar sponsorship was a professional baller.

Those things used to exist and then as things changed and the NFL and the NBA and majorly

baseball really started to take over and professional hockey, you know, bowling has kind of been

forgotten and fallen by the wayside, but it used to have major, major sponsors like Miller

Beer and Chevrolet, all these different things.

So our hope is that people now start to gravitate back towards bowling and understand that

this is like the working man sport.

This is something that we all can relate to in a much bigger way.

And secretly it is a way for us to just try to get a sponsorship for EJ Tackett for Dr.

Pepper.

I mean, I thought the same.

This poor guy, I hope he doesn't get diabetes, oh my lord.

Another question I had in terms of the audience, it seems to range the age gap.

I saw young kids in the audience, I saw old, is there a part of the country where you

see more bowling fans than other?

Well, you know, we've actually heard that the state of Maine goes crazy for us.

So we'll see that for ourselves this season.

But honestly, what's cool about this sort of bowling is just like how the fans come

to the table, like they come prepared.

What's the most surprising thing you learned in all of this?

I mean, because you have that access to, you know, obviously the professional career

with their personal lives, you've seen the toll that it takes in terms of time with

their families, you understand how much this cost just to be a professional bowler.

What has surprised you the most?

Most surprising thing that we've noticed is the level of resilience that goes along

with bowling, not just the bowlers themselves, but the sport of bowling.

The ebbs and flows of not just a season, but the sport as a whole.

It's really interesting to see how big bowling was.

It started to take a while, came back up, lulled again, and now we've seen as far as

like numbers that have come out, you know, gen alpha is bowling at a much higher rate

than generations before, even like since COVID is really taking a huge up swing because

people want to do things in person and collaborate with people they care about more.

And so you get to do something that's a sport, but also like kind of a community, communal

aspect sort of thing, and that leads to more attention and then more people who take

an interest to become professional bowlers.

So the level of resilience of these bowlers and of the sport of bowling really was a

shock.

The other thing that surprised me too is the commentator, this beautiful woman, she's

kind of interviewing everybody and I thought, can you imagine a year from now after this

airs, how much it could change even in terms of like the telecasts, there are people clamoring

to have a job to be the commentator, you know?

I mean, the evolution, obviously we highlight this in episode five, how for many years Fox

had the contract to air these shows, right?

The TV shows, the telecasts of the final events are always featured on a broadcast network

they have for years, and that contract went away last year.

And there was a moment of uncertainty and obviously if people are really, you know,

googling now, they'll know like CW and CVS picked it up for this year and that's a really

cool thing, but you get one little fraction of what it's like to see the top bowlers go

for that $100,000 and it really comes down to, you know, who are you going to root for

along the way and, you know, will they make the telecasts and if they do like, yes, go

support it, go watch it, go, you know, fall in love with this board of bowling all over

you.

Well, I hope I see them at the SB's and then you're going to know that you really achieve

something, don't you think?

I think this is such a good series, I'm so glad that you did it.

Are you now lifelong bowlers?

Yeah, I mean, look, I've bold almost my whole life.

I'm not grow-level, like growing up I was in leagues and, you know, we would have like

family bowling night every Thursday night, but everybody has some sort of connection with

bowling.

That's the beauty of this.

Everybody's been to a birthday party or like, you know, in high school, we've got a lot

of options.

So it's either hang out in a, you know, Taco Bell parking lot or go bowl.

It's just really cool.

It's, it's, you know, we feel very lucky that we got to be a part of making this that

are, you know, the, the teams that have come behind this to make this possible and, you

know, when you, when we were making it, it's like, you can't help but think like, I want

to go bowling.

Yeah.

I do agree with you.

Yeah.

It's so fun.

And it's one of those things that like, it's a community sport.

They're not that many community or a community activity in a lot of ways.

If you're just like doing it with your friends, it's, it's something that you, you know,

you can go play basketball, but there's a certain degree of skill you can't really play

with other people.

Like, I can't play you and expect that that I'm going to beat you.

That's a blast.

But in bowling, I might have a chance.

Like, it's, it's like the playing field of it really comes down to like the time you,

you put in not just because you're six foot five and, and you have, you know, better

genes for jumping.

The last thing I hope to is that those players, I mean, it's such a mental game and you

realize that is that I hope that with this series, they feel even more excited about the

future.

But even if they were having a moment of doubt of continuing to play, that this just

reenergizes their career and their, their love for the sport.

That really has been a, a great thing with this is so much of this is us, you know, in

the lab, editing and putting all this stuff together without people seeing.

And once the trailer came out and then once our, our five main ballers were able to see

the first episode, they were so excited about the idea of showing really what the world

is like and what, what the life of a baller is, and the excitement they had for what

this can mean for bowling as a sport, because as much as they all want to win, they all want

bowling to thrive, you know, it's beyond as them as individuals.

So this can only help that and we're very excited to be part of it.

So what are you guys going to do next?

I don't know, I mean, we already saw a darts doc, so maybe there's a shuffleboard doc out

there.

There are plenty of women's sports that are ripe for you to cover and I hope that you

consider that.

There we are.

I mean, yeah, there is, sorry, go ahead, Brian.

Well, just, I mean, we're extremely hopeful that there will be an audience for this to

allow us to go to a season two.

And we have a lot of really exciting things that we would like to bring to the table in season

two.

And maybe we can talk even more about that.

Yeah, I want to see the female bowlers too.

I kept thinking that too.

One of the key things is bowling something that's very unique is that it's the PVA technically

isn't men's only.

It is any baller who can qualify.

And there is a woman, Kelly Coolick, who won the Terminator of Champions, which is a major

in 2010, which is the equivalent of Serena Williams winning the men's U.S. Open.

I love it.

She made a ball of fame man to win that trophy and it's mind blowing.

So those are some of the great stories that we really would like to keep diving into.

Well, great work and thank you to your team for bringing us this great series.

And again, I am really excited to see what happens after this.

So job all done.

Thank you.

That's great.

I want you to say, really appreciate it.

I want to thank my great guests and remind you to make sure that you click, subscribe,

please leave a five star review.

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