Ep. 2290 John and EJ Craig: Proactive Disclosure

0:00There's a moment, right before Homer Pergo's wrong, when you say, what if I try this? That's when things start getting... tricky. Next time, just leave it to the experts. Book with Crop Metcalf today and save $90 on an HVAC Precision Tune-Up. This smoke radio for the masses has lined up this major life piece, nineteen forty-seven. The Army Air Force has announced that applying this purpose found and is now in the possession of the Army. The game is rigged, change the game, change it here.

1:00I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. This is Fade to Black with your host, Ginny Church, on the Game Changer Radio Network. Good evening. All right. I'm good. I'm good. Good evening. How you doing? Fade to Black. Yeah. Today is Wednesday, March 25th, 2026. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Let's do this. Man. I'll explain that last night. I'm never going to do it again this week on Fade to Black. Monday night, the guest was me. That's right. Last night, Kim Derosie was with this. That was absolutely an amazing show.

2:02I love being able to say that, right? Just so many shows and everything. But last night was amazing. And pre-cognition and PK and the bending of spoons live on the air. That was man, man, man. I'm still scratching my head on that whole thing. It was a lot of fun. Tonight, excuse me. I have a cough button right there. Right there. Didn't use it. That is not professional. Tonight on the show, John and E.J. Craig are with us. Proactive disclosure. That's right. It is my favorite thing. All you oppose. All ET. I didn't say UAP. Not going to do it. Not going to do it. Let's see what John and E.J. do. Let's see what side of the fence they are. Oh, man. Great t-shirts though.

3:03Yeah. All you oppose. All ET all night long. Proactive disclosure. Tomorrow night, kids, we have a programming change. Tyler Engel is with us tomorrow night. And Danian is under the weather. We will reschedule Danian as soon as we can. Tyler is joining us and base forge. Not base forge. Base forge. That's right. Tyler is with us tomorrow night. And I had the honor and the privilege a couple of weeks ago to interview Tyler for Beyond Belief. And I've been a fan of Tyler's for a minute now. And his content and his research and how he handles it is just extraordinary. He's really, really, really good. Really good. And a really cool internet personality.

4:04And so I got to know Tyler a little bit and ended up going out and hanging out for the evening with him. And his better half, Lily, she's amazing. And her best friend too as well. So the four of us went out. And we just got to sit and talk for hours. And I couldn't wait to get him on to fade to black. So this opportunity came up early this morning. And I reached out to talk to his guy. Dude, man. Let's do this. That's like, right on. So Tyler Angle, uh, base forge is with us tomorrow night. If you want to go, if you haven't already and you want to jump out in advance and, and head over to his YouTube channel or his, uh, Instagram and, and check out some of his stuff. Uh, it, it, it, it'll be worth it. He is really, really good. So that's what we're doing tomorrow night on fade to black. Another great week here. I did, I, I really did enjoy Monday night.

5:09Uh, and as you know, uh, over the years, I have only done a couple. It's only been a couple, maybe a few, uh, solo shows like that. I'm not talking about the AMAs, you know, we do that all the time. But just, uh, uh, a stream of consciousness show like that. Uh, it was very fun for me to do. And I would like to do more of those. And I got to tell you, uh, when I got done Monday night, uh, I went, oh, I should have, I should have, I should have, I, I didn't. I should have, I should have. And that's the thing though, it was just flow of consciousness, a stream of consciousness. And, uh, yeah, a lot, uh, a lot was left unsaid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got to do more of those. I really had a good time doing it. All right. Uh, where are we? You guys want to start this thing?

6:09You guys ready? I'm ready. Uh, my next event coming up, which is in just, uh, a month for short weeks from now, the contact modalities expo. And it is May 1st through the 3rd, 2026. And Delebin was constant at the Lake Lawn Resort. Uh, very excited, beautiful resort. Uh, uh, just, uh, very close to Milwaukee, right there in the Illinois, uh, Wisconsin border, not too far from Chicago, which is where I'm from. I was born in Washington. And this is it. This is the middle of the heartland. The resort is five star world class. And Melissa Cain and her team and how they put this, uh, amazing event together is, is the, they just deserve so much credit. So get your tickets, get up there. Uh, people are constantly screaming in the Midwest.

7:09Where, where's our event? If you get everything out there in Los Angeles, man, not so fast. It's not that way anymore. No, we've got the contact modalities expo right there in Delebin was constant. Now it's contact modalities expo that's expo contact modalities expo.com, uh, tickets and information and everything else that you need is right there. All right. All right. I'm ready. Are you tonight? John and EJ Craig are with us. We're going to be talking about their work with proactive disclosure. Now, if you head over to their website and it's, it's really cool, which is UFO hyphen dash, UFO track.com. We have the links for it below on our website and throughout social media. Head over there and just scroll down that home page and check out what they've got going on. It is going to be a great show.

8:10Uh, not only are they dedicated, right, but this is about us and our community taking a position of being proactive with disclosure. Why? You can sit on your hands. You wait for somebody else to do the work and I have said it a million times. This is not the time in history to be relaxed to let somebody else do the work. No. Let's do this. They have, uh, they have some really cool gear. They've got their tracking software. Uh, everything is in real time and they've got some other things too as well over on the website that we'll be talking about tonight. And, uh, so I would like to welcome both for the first time to fade to black. There's EJ. There's John. How are you guys doing good? Oh, terrific. How are you? I am fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. All right. Uh, okay.

9:10Wait a minute. See, I was all relaxed because this is you opposed tonight. Now, we just get to just let it roll. But, um, both of you get the first time guest disclaimer. So let's get that out of the way so we can. It's, it's your tradition around here, right? All first time guests get it. Um, so I'll give it to you both at the same time instead of individually. Okay. So EJ and John, it's just you and I sitting on my couch having a conversation as friends somewhere that conversation starts and starts where it ends and ends. But we're going to end his friends. Now, you both have to accept so we can move on. Accept. Accept too. That sounds great. Ah. Okay. There you go. Um, I actually, um, I want to start here with some foundational stuff. Uh, so let me, uh, everybody wants to know the answers to this first question. I'll throw this to EJ first. EJ, have you ever seen anything strange in the sky that you can't explain?

10:14What was the first time? The first time was in 1987. Uh, I saw something that I basically think was. In our secret space program, uh, it looked man-made, but it had, uh, features that. Aren't, aren't normal. So basically imagine seeing an SR 71 go over low and slow and silent. And so low that I could events and rivets. Wow. You, Salash. Wow. But low, slow and silent. So I, I think I saw something from the secret space program. I'm not sure it was alien. I think it was. I think it was. I don't get your attention though, won't it? Uh, if you, if you saw rivets, EJ, was that during the day? No, it was at night. Um, and we were out in rural Idaho and there was yard lights. And it was underlit. It was not lit itself, but it was underlit by, uh, the yard lights.

11:16And it was, it was very low. And years later, I saw why I know it's an SR 71 was. Years later, I was in Hutchinson and Kansas. And I looked up at the ceiling and there was an SR 71 hanging from the roof. And that was about half a, half the distance that the other thing was. And the only distance was is the vents that I saw, uh, were perpendicular to the fuselage. When I saw it, um, applying it, they were parallel to the fuselage. But that was the only difference. It was exact same site. Now, Okay, okay. Like I said, that'll get your attention. What was your first sighting EJ of something that you suspect that wasn't from Earth? Um, that would have been, um, with John, uh, when we did a communication and kind and, uh, or, you know, what people call CE5s now, what we call communication and kind.

12:17Um, just a light in the sky that just couldn't and shouldn't have been there and was so bright and brilliant and amazing and in response to something that we'd put out. Okay. Yeah, that works. Yes, sir. It was like an answer. So, John, is your answer the same as EJs? Not really. I've had a lifelong, uh, series of experiences from when I was very young. My whole family saw something. But in high school, I saw something and even, uh, had in later years had a hypnotic regression and strange cuts a long, strange story. But, um, that was another event, uh, had a medical intervention when I was living in Alaska. And I've seen things in the sky a lot of times, but I'm always looking up. I'm trying always to look up because that's written. That's when you're going to see something. Yeah, absolutely. When, uh, I was working for a company and I had a friend. This is here in LA.

13:17Now, I live in Palmdale now. Okay. This event that I'm about to describe to you happen to be in Palmdale, but it was before I lived here. And so we had to speak for the, uh, school district up here. It was music related and, you know, whatever. But anyway, maybe it was the education, uh, the music department for the schools. But we had to come up and do this presentation. And so we're driving back. We did the presentation. We're driving, um, on the 14 freeway. And off to the left. I see something I'm driving. Dan is in the passenger seat, but I see something right off the deck. You know, just stirring up dust and it's black. Okay. Dan, check that out. It's coming straight out. We're on the freeway, right? Okay. And this thing came and flew right over the top of my car.

14:18And I looked right at it was the B2 stealth bomber. Never heard of it. Never seen it. Right. And it was probably, and I'm not kidding. I didn't live out here now. Um, they do some crazy stuff with test flying. But this was probably 200 feet off the ground, which by all measure, right? My as well, you know, been on the ground. Anyway, so right over, right away. I, it might as well have been a Martian, right? I had never seen anything like that in a giant black triangle. A C just. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's. It's not. It's the top of the car.

15:18And that's when you have those moments, like Ej, just said, well. They're developing something in secret. Right. nobody gives a shit they don't it happens all you know what I mean no people still push in their shopping carts to the car I'm standing there like what you know it's life is so normal and I'm watching this thing circle or whatever it whatever you know whatever it could be but nobody really looks up here now no it's it's it's very it's a very strange place to live where probably everybody that I'm looking at in the parking lot while I'm looking up they work at Lockheed right so you know it's like wow okay so it's Wednesday in Palmdale was the big deal now before we jump into your work what do you

16:21John I'm going to ask you this first what's your definition of disclosure and the the current state of disclosure with the media and and Washington and you know Washington DC what what's your position on on all of that it's really interesting it seems like it's changing day by day I was just reading about something Danny she hadn't said today where he was saying we do need the government disclosure I've been kind of the philosophy of we should do ourselves but I think it needs to be both we need to put the pressure on and we've got we've got several things we're doing ever since I saw something in 1968 high school that I couldn't explain as I got to figure out what this is and you know it's been 80 years of non-disclosure and cover up I'm sure it's my opinion of course but 80 years is just ridiculous we there's something going on

17:24we need to know what it is and I think we can do a lot to kind of push the buttons a little bit and and get it to go a little bit faster I think it's going to happen I think it's kind of unfolding slowly as we go but every time I've thought that over the years it seems like something is just kind of you know gone back and just have to wait and wait and wait how long have you been researching John oh I probably since high school yeah I interviewed somebody when I was in the 70s so yeah I just been so interested in the subject I just so a solid 50 years like myself yeah yeah yeah 50 years and when I look at the youngsters today in EJ you can laugh at this when when I see the youngsters today that better new to the subject since like let's go with TTSA in 2017 right that new crowd that came in they thought it was over right ah that was easy

18:26disclosure yeah here we go well now it's 2026 that was 10 years ago and the amount of times that I have been excited I can't count them now right it's always a reset it's always a reset it's always a reset I don't want it to be a reset this time EJ what's your definition of disclosure and what do you what's your position on the way the media and Washington is handling things right now I don't think it's ever gonna come out of Washington willingly I think they'll just dribble and and trickle information down and you know enough to make a headline here a headline there and you know just kind of the distraction game just don't look over here and I just don't think we're gonna get real disclosure through that so I think John and I've been discussing this for we've

19:27been together 20 while we've known each other since 81 but we have been married since 2007 so we've been discussing for many years how do we prove this what do we do to actually prove mathematically scientifically that we're seeing something and we're looking in places that other people are pretty much dismissing and what we want to bring to it is a rigorous scientific data that has to be answered for and as soon as we get that we're going to escalate it to the people that can actually rattle the chains and get some answers and have to have to give us more than what they've been giving us but we also know I think we know where to look or at least we're looking places that people generally aren't looking wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait where where I want the secret spot you guys are in Colorado I'm out there all the time

20:30are you gonna take me to the secret spot it's not it's not local to Colorado and it's not a hot spot but I'll let John answer because this is John's theory yeah I've had this theory for a long time that if we can get two cameras on the same object and get triangulation going and we've got a lot of things going in that direction if you can do that you can determine altitude velocity acceleration you know motion all these things that when people take a video or a photo of a dot of light in the sky you really can't tell how far away it is you can't tell how fast it's going but if one of the big goals is if we can get two cameras and if we can get enough people to get notified come out the door go outside and you know people down the street also if everybody can come out and get multiple camera views of the same object at the same time it increases the odds that we can do these triangulation calculations that I've got going we've done it ourselves with two cameras we we'd go out on sky watches ourselves and we've

21:31actually measured the altitude of the international space station but the real the real trick here is that there's what we call the no-fly zone no blooms or planes or anything that's manmade can fly above 20 miles roughly and nothing can orbit below about a hundred miles it's actually a little higher than that but there's a big zone from 20 to a hundred miles nothing should be there except maybe rocks coming down or rockets going through and if you can find something that's glading along or hovering in that altitude zone then that demands an explanation and that starts to be the push button that we need to start demanding answers and it's so it's a scientific way to get some data that can kind of beg the question of you know how do you explain this it's either secret space programming some sort of very bizarre um anti-gravity or other exotic right but we don't it's not publicly known or it's ET or some other explanation you know

22:31if it's something's going on we need to determine what it is and it needs to be fast it needs to be fast and in in real time so people can respond we we all know how quick this stuff will appear and disappear right in front of us we barely have enough time to to think about pulling out a cell phone let alone pulling out the cell phone and shooting it so yeah the faster it is you remember a couple of years ago of course you do the drone thing right and that that starts jumping off and after the show one night I live in I live I'm just gonna tell you I live on a golf course okay so not your typical I don't know what's typical but the people that live around me are not tinfoil hat okay anyway but we have this neighborhood group that somebody here in the

23:33neighborhood put together and we've got this chat app that they put together night got it in the mailbox one day high neighbor blah blah blah and so we're all signed up on it it's really cool actually it's mainly missing dogs and cats you know stuff like that that's on there but it's a really cool app okay so after the show so the drones are happening I'm in my kitchen and my phone beeps and I looked on it's the app and I look and somebody says and it's like house number five is anybody outside watching the drones over the fairway the lights over the fairway I said what and I see the next yeah see there's a bunch they're going and boom boom boom all the neighbors now are like and so I grabbed my phone I'm making dinner I waited about two minutes three minute went outside and there was nothing and there was there was I posted this stuff on

24:37social media you know the comments from everybody but I missed it and why I delayed right you need to get out so so that's that's what's really cool about your software and your other alert systems we'll get into that to to go out photograph time stamp and triangulate I think that's very very important time is so critical in getting outside and seeing something before disappears yes yep for sure who is the inventor here that's basically my department I've been in electronics and software engineering a road books for Microsoft on software and I've been in electronics forever just love it I'm just a high tech kind of a person and he days of mathematicians so we've been a perfect partnership here and the tell us about okay so is the is the app itself called keep looking up no

25:44it's not UFO track it's you well that's the that's the not that's fine that's the web you a photo track is the website and the name of the app well to report UFOs you go to report dot UFO track dot com to see the UFOs on the real-time map you go to sightings dot UFO track dot com and then to see where our members are you go to members dot UFO track dot com when you're doing analysis you go to tools dot UFO track dot com so everything is a hub off of UFO track dot com so if you go to the main website you can see everything we got you've got the books you got the articles this books dot UFO track dot com anyways but just remember that when you want to report something report it very quickly at report dot UFO track dot com all you do is tag your longitude latitude say what kind of object it is and then what direction it happens to be going and anything else if you want to like color or you know

26:48number of craft or who knows something meaningful and then it will go out if you hit send it will go out and anybody within a 50 mile radius of you that is signed up to be one of our members and again you go to UFO track dot com and become a member then you will get a real-time alert so as quick as they put in that report the alert goes out to the membership and then if somebody else sees it they're supposed to report it and then it'll go out to membership within 50 miles of them and then if somebody else sees it they report and it goes out to 50 miles with them so we can actually start tracking the object across the countryside this is this is really cool so I'm there now right and I mean I don't want to do a report because that would be not truthful right but but so I'm here now so I've clicked on report which is all on the

27:54homepage everybody you can just do that it's the map is brilliant okay very simple to operate I've now selected now I'm over my house and save and continue to report form there it is there's your locate yeah okay this is really cool primary characteristic and then that's when you say the shape of it and then the direction it's going so that whoever receives that text message is going to receive that map imprint and then you say what direction it is they can look at the maps he were it is in relation to them so they actually can go outside camera in hand ready to know where to look and what to look for now so in the drop-down for not moving which direction is it moving towards not moving significantly you need to have hauling hauling balls no this is really cool so we've got north northeast east yep yep it's all here other and yeah

28:58this is this is really well thought out it's a quick approximation so you know to get just get the information out there real quick and the first time you come in and you enter you figure out your latitude and longitude and one of the things that's remembered on your computer so the next time you come in you don't have to enter those even it's just a real real fast form at that point yeah this is we want people to go to report.ufotrack.com right now and then enter their location and their phone just to have that ready save it that way if they get into a high-stress situation where they want to track something all I'll have to do is say what shape it is what direction it's going and the rest is been remembered and then it'll go out just that fast so I'm already in the system now that I've put in my email I don't see a place for a phone number okay options that in email at the at the right time then then that will trigger email to you and then will correspond with any more details or videos or photos that

29:59you'd like to send back in and I will tag that to the icon on the map oh this is the video in as near real time is is I can get a hold of it people start to see the video so you'll see this stuff in real time yes and so it says report submitted alerts have been sent to two recipients okay yeah probably this is this is really really cool all right now this there's a lot of work how long did it take the two of you to put this site together we're gonna continue this discussion but there this is this is really well put together how am I to take oh the design and the and the thought process and the creation probably took us a couple of years right been in beta since May and we've gone live since November and we've gotten 51 reports since like November 1st

31:03yeah we're getting about 10 a month right now and we're not as engaged with the people as we want to be I mean still you know double did just a few dozen people we want hundreds and thousands yeah of course you do of course you do of course you do you work best with a lot of people this for sure yeah that's the point isn't it Bill thank you for that we need the network yeah we've got it up here in the chat he's got it right here I'm gonna I'm gonna do it this way so Bill's got this up and are your email on the form here report you a vote track you have on there it is thank you for that Bill and we will continue to do that and we'll get it out also on social media but this is this is fantastic with the limited release that you have on this right now you know you've got a PR company and you've got some people behind you including myself and in this community but you said you're getting already with the launch of this being so new but you're getting maybe 10 reports

32:06a month yeah we've got 51 on there now we've been live since November so basically that's rough math it's been more of late so maybe it's one like 12 or 13 and it's like eight or nine earlier but anyways we are getting quite a bit of traction and and it's fun people are sending in videos the latest YouTube video that I put up was for a gentleman and Greenbrier Arkansas who saw something in the middle of the night but the system worked perfectly he hit report he received the triggered email and he responded to that with his video he took so I could get it up on the site just that quick we didn't have any more members within the 50 miles of Arkansas but then I put it out on Patreon to the whole you know membership that was there but he also said that it was he'd seen it twice or three times so we're hoping

33:06that Greenbrier Arkansas wakes up and becomes members and then we can track down this thing if it ever appears again okay we've just put up your YouTube channel also in in the chat yeah I'm looking at that video right here that's actually pretty good yeah I was really pleased with it and then we were able to actually track it down based on the clues in the video compared with Google Maps and get his exact location he had given us his longitude and latitude in the report so anyways it all it all lined up and even the metadata on the video lined up perfectly so this was this was good and legit and an authentic um anomalous video it was really fun isn't it amazing how technology can merge with the community and something like this can be put together John isn't that just like the coolest thing right now yeah I go back to the phoenix lights event in my mind and there were hundreds of people that saw something very few videos and photos were taken

34:09I mean ridiculously few and if it had happened today and if we had you have to track going and if there were let's say a hundred people there that remembers there would have been a lot more people out in the in the street ticking videos and and getting really good documentation we could have maybe done the triangulation we got the size and altitude and a lot more data so that's that's kind of our goal we would have had data that they couldn't refute yeah if we got it from that many different sources it had been it had been iron clad and that's what we want with this is to collect that kind of data that we can then promote up to the academics or whoever wants to see it check our data uh and then you know get it out there somebody something like this is flying around in a sky we can prove what it is we can prove how big it is um this is solid solid information um what is it and see what kind of answers we actually do get even the uh even the really poor videos that people complain about where

35:12there's just a dotted light in the sky which you can't do much with that but when you have two cameras and you really can you can get information that nobody's ever gotten before basically with the you know triangulation going on do you think that uh do you think that there is some kind of conscious communication between ET and us I kind of do we've we've got a whole theory about communication and kind and you know like people will flash their headlights and the thing will flash back and we've done some research and there's a lot of cases similar to that where some sort of a signal will go out or even a mental thought about it and I've noticed a lot of UFO cases where somebody was thinking about UFOs in fact that happened to me in 1968 I was in a movie theater with my brother and a friend we came out walking down the alley and there's a band of light across the sky and I thought what the heck is what the aliens invade while we were in the movie theater and it turned out that was just a band of light from a bank building later you know research that and figured it out but that's when we we're

36:14thinking about that I was thinking about that alien band of light most of that's when the ball of light started going across the sky and made a U-turn suddenly and then faded out so you know no airplane or anything else could do that and so yeah when you're thinking about it or in your in the right mood I think they must pick up on that because I've noticed that pattern a lot yeah isn't it when you hear people talk about this before you've had an experience with some kind of communication or conscious communication whatever it is but when you hear people talk about it like nah it's too move for me right you do that's okay and then you experience it and you know like what um I had two things now this reaches back into your text so we're going to talk about that in a second I had two things that happened to me from the same person Steve Marillo who I'm sure you guys know Steve's amazing and you know he ran move on here

37:16in in in LA for like 15 years you know a long time and but uh uh naval marine fighter pilot smart guy he goes okay so church see that light I'm going yeah I'm going to talk to it he takes out a laser he points at it and goes and I'm like and that friggin light goes blip blip back and I was like give me give me that blip blip blip right and I could not believe what I was seeing and not long after that um there's a few months we're out in the desert and Steve and I and Alex Mistretta and some other friends right on this patio we're in the desert Palm Springs area Joshua Tree and somebody says and I'm holding a stack of pizzas

38:17right or having a little party at this cabin and somebody goes wouldn't it be cool if we just saw you a foe right now John EJ as I live and breathe at that moment from the desert floor this white orb shot up into the sky from the desert on cue you know what I mean not not a minute later like right then and you have to just step back and go okay there's something that we don't fully understand here um there is a conscious connection that's got to be universal that we're we're trying to figure out but when you see it like that and you see it happen yeah you can't really deny that that is going on I just don't know how it's happening I tend to be real nuts and bolts and most everything I think about on on the topic but I have to admit there's definitely something more to it there's you know I don't think we've got a

39:20really good handle on it yet but well we've had CE5 experiences John has great CE5 story from 1974 but we've had CE5 experiences and that's why we invented the UFO CQ which said you'll talk about in a minute but uh yeah we think that it's called communication and kind or it's kind of like the the Star Trek um they can respond to us at the level that we respond to them kind of uh kind of thought well okay before we uh I don't I don't want to jump to the CQ yet okay you know what I want to talk about the detector box yeah now which is kind of what we're talking about here too as well right so this is really really cool it's called the UFO sense right the anomaly detector box have you got one there John?

40:22yeah right here whoa it's a it's black but um yeah it's called UFO sense got the label on the front and it's got a usb kind of a cable you plug it into the wall just plug it into the wall set it on a bookshelf or somewhere where it won't be just disturbed you hook it up to your Wi-Fi system through a setup process and then you just leave it and there's a way to test it to make sure it's still awake but otherwise it's just quiet and silent but it detects the earth's magnetic field if it shifts for more than two seconds or if the gravitational acceleration of the earth you know like what you feel in an elevator how that changes when you start up and stuff if it goes heavier than normal for two seconds or or lighter than normal for two seconds even a fraction of the amount of acceleration of the earth then it'll set off an alert uh an alarm and you'll hear beeping for 30 seconds but more importantly it'll send an alert in to the server through the Wi-Fi you've got it connected to and then again it goes out to the 50 mile radius all the members

41:26so you can report manually with that report form eJ described or this will automatically happen 24-7 and even if you're uh like down at the grocery store something is near your house and sets this off it'll uh your your phone will give you an alert too you and 50 50 mile radius people will get an alert so you can all go outside and see what's going on well okay what's the science behind that what is it that um is triggering i understand what you just described the two ways of uh it being triggered but what would a craft be doing to trigger it well we've we've done a lot of research and there's a lot of cases hundreds of cases or maybe more i don't know there's a lot of cases where compasses spin or other electromagnetic phenomena happen there's a case and i came over a year was we're like 54 cars all stalled and uh so the electrical system and the car was affected

42:28so my theory is that it's going to if it makes compasses spin then the sensor in this box is very similar it is a sort of a compass chip x-waysy axes it can tell what direction and strength the earth's magnetic field is and it's usually very stable so if anything shifts it you can get a false alert if you bring a big chunk of metal near it that we were bringing a washing machine down our stairs within about 10 feet of it and it set it off once so you know you have to be careful of that or you've got to set it somewhere in your house that's just behind a bookshelf or something and just they're on a bookshelf and uh not affected by normal electromagnetic things so it's just a kind of like a super compass it's just checking to see which direction and strength north is and if it changes then something is going on and um there's a lot of evidence that i don't know if you want that to go off we get a few false alerts but we haven't had enough to really be a problem

43:30at all yeah and we've had you we've had a few that then correlate with something seen in the sky so that's fantastic i i i want one of these i'm going to get one uh here's you know for me living next to Edwards Air Force Base right living next to Lockheed right NASA is Air Force Plant 42 one mile for my house it's we can see it right uh having that would be pretty interesting why i think that they're testing any gravity stuff out there okay right right it wouldn't surprise me sure right uh that thing be going off all day long oh man not again but if it is then planes won't set this off we live close enough to another airport uh here it would meet our airport but planes don't set it off um but a plane using an interesting propulsion system right right right and if that happens then go on and take a picture right then

44:35and then see if you can develop a pattern and then maybe there's something a little bit more that we can discuss again i like this i like this idea more like the data and see what we can do so they're they're getting away with i mean i guess they're getting away with uh things because we're not testing for it or we're not looking for it right right but if we can if we can get a detection and a sighting and maybe you have three of those and it's the same kind of plane going over maybe there's something going on i mean it's circumstantial at that point you got to dig a little deeper but uh at least you know what you might be looking for that is interesting i i had a sighting i'm going to get one of those i'm going to or i'm going to order one uh right after the show or maybe i can do it right now hold on for a second how easy is it to buy let's see uh oh okay all right yep quantity one accompanying membership phone number

45:38whether you want the monthly membership through patreon or just via an annual lifetime membership so that you get the reports back to you okay i have no idea i thought i was just buying the gear just by the gear then okay how do i do it okay so let's see oh i see i see okay so accompanying membership okay i am oh there it is okay all right two two two two i can't believe i'm doing this the fee for the membership helps cover the cost of the uh the that's the texting that we have to pay for and the server um saying so you can just get the unit and it'll beep and you know it's just a normal um you have to exactly other people have made those but the big advantages with that networking as the social aspect of it sold okay how do you like that

46:41how do you like that nice all right no that's really cool that is really so um man i take this i i'm so into this uh about uh maybe two years ago now i don't think it was last years the year before but i had the sighting that was above i'm gonna make this really quick above skunk works after the show i was out there looking for the meteor shower that was happening at the time see this light and the and it's right above skunk works and then it comes out above my house and stops i looked at it but it was silent and it had three strobing lights so was it a triangle i don't know but it's three lights three lights are always going to be a triangle right okay but so i'm looking but it was silent and it was strobing like that very fast strobe and then it went back over now if i had you a foe sense here in the house

47:44that might tell me something because i think that was anti-gravity that's what i think that was some kind of anti-gravity uh propulsion system and before anybody thinks uh thank you for that i am excited uh i can't wait to get this in the mail i'll do an unboxing live on fade to black nice um but um uh for me with with this kind of stuff going on and and having this ability you know not only to see it but people want a question well how do you know why would they have a secret did you know did you hear what NASA announced today did you guys hear this i don't think so they are launching a nuclear powered spacecraft to Mars next year

48:44i didn't see something nuclear powered nuclear power now it's like the holy grail right now wait a minute they're not going to build it and design it in the next six months this has been in development forever right and then they just come out and it was kind of weird how they did it well you know so we're going to do this nuclear powered spacecraft to Mars we're going to get there really quick and we're going to launch helicopters on Mars and and that was in the press really i'm like wait wait wait nuclear propulsion system well that's an example of something that being done in secret we don't know until they show it to you just another leak another step in the leaking of information just that's a it's a nice soft it's not really soft but it's it's a major step but i think there's a lot more steps they could make yeah yeah yeah yeah eJ you wanted to say something no no i just i was just agreeing with you i think that they are making a lot my father used to work in aerospace

49:46and um i knew of things when i was a kid i i don't know how i did but i mean stuff was coming through uh like what solar warden was and some other stuff like that i when i was a teenager in the 70s 80s i i knew these terms and i'm like why did i know these terms is really really weird but um i think he worked in a hollow he worked at Skylab or on Skylab at JPL and he worked in martin marietta he was working on these things he worked on Viking i was i was with all the Viking engineers the night that it landed in 76 that was a really fun night um but did you know did you know gentry did you know gentry lee no okay he was he was the head of the Viking program but he was also Arthur C. Clarke's co-author on on a bunch of books but he worked at JPL yeah of course yeah yeah

50:49if you were there for Viking that was a gentry lee project um but how fascinating is that right where you're hearing those terms and then you grow up as an adult and you're hearing you're like wait a minute i remember you know the the good old boys club sitting around talking about this stuff yeah so yeah i years later when people were tired i was watching old cosmic disclosures and stuff and people were talking about the conspiracy of this or that and the other thing and uh i'm like i don't know why that's so familiar but it is definitely familiar and yeah i do i i have met uh dozens and i can't say hundreds but certainly dozens and dozens of people out here who either work at Lockheed or their parents work at Lockheed so i've and and the kids that i are now you know they're my they're 50 years old right i'm 62 so you know they're grown up they're adults

51:52they would say oh you know yeah my dad you know worked at Lockheed for 30 years okay what do you do don't know right don't know i and it's the same answer repeated over and over and over again yeah we went to the family open house uh but uh once a year but oh no i don't know what he did nope and and you know how can you keep secrets well if you keep secrets from your family like that where your kids don't have a clue or even better they don't want to have a clue because you don't make it an issue right right yeah you don't don't make it a big deal now the the family open house is funny i triggered a memory uh if i may the um one time my mother was flying back from LA to Denver and she said that something came up next to the airplane and it was this plane that didn't it was it looked like a plane but didn't

52:54have any wings and she said it was short and everything and it just came up next the plane for a little bit and then flew back off and we were at one of the family open houses out there and she just started hitting my dad and said that's the thing that's what i saw and dad was like oh it was this that the other thing let's go over here now so but uh yeah so i had the family open house i hadn't thought about that in a long time yeah i was uh it was with some friends last month and they were talking to me about uh i don't know if this Thanksgiving or Christmas or something and they were you know it's concourse uh and and this is what she told me oh i just disclosed so it's a sheet but i don't like same people's name but she goes so you know what they would do they would give us a tour but we were we had guardrails i said what do you mean

53:55no we weren't a lot no we had to walk it was like velvet ropes right and and that was it we couldn't so that was the tour we never really saw anything and we weren't allowed to go anywhere we just had to walk on uh through where they were guiding us and taking us through i said well would you see nothing well was the tour for you know don't know don't know isn't that interesting how um it i think for the families military families are like this in general it's just a way of life your parents have a job to do and maybe they're dealing with sensitive stuff you just let it go you know i'm an army brat i i had friends whose dads were admirals or generals right running crazy stuff it wasn't like we were sitting around

54:55talking about what our parents did for a gig no no it's it's part of being uh at that part of the industry or the military we just he you don't ask questions i find that uh the other part with this though is when i want to talk about CE5's the things that our community has talked about for a long time consciousness and and and and what may be isn't it interesting how the Pentagon is now talking about religion and consciousness and and be careful about who we're reaching out to because you don't necessarily know if they're good or bad i was like wait a minute that was our community that's our discussion now the Pentagon and congress wants to bring up these sane things does that tell you uh i'll go to john first does that tell you

55:58that they are fully aware of of what is going on that they know more than they're telling us sir sounds like there's something going on in that sense yeah there's um yeah uh we we've got a device that has not some bolts that helps try to send out a message we've actually had a couple of results with it but um yeah it's just there's there's definitely some communication and kind going on we think at different levels i can show you what that is it's called UFO cq and it looks very it looks very similar to the uh UFO sense but there's no wires to it there's not even an on-off switch you just rotate it if you store it this way the batteries are off you flip it up and it'll flash and it's got a very very very bright red LED and you use a QR code to hook your phone up to it just you know i set this over on picnic table then use a QR code to hook to it and then you can type in messages and it'll send it out in

57:01Morse code and i i think that's kind of a what that is so cool and we've had a couple of responses from it we can you can set the speed to you know human speed or alien speed it flashes very fast but with an LED you can flash pure Morse code and uh towards the sky just see if you get a response and so you can combine this with the you know mental meditation and projection or whatever however that works too but i can't like the idea of a nuts and bolts approach we've had a couple anecdotal coincidences that are kind of fun i can't prove anything but one time well before this when i had these smaller units or were very red LED flashes that we programmed to have three of these at our campsite and we set them up and uh saying uh please uh flash a light and you know just respond by flashing a light we're trying to send out a positive message not a negative message so i think it's important

58:05but uh anyway eJ got freaked out in the middle of it you want to talk about it? eJ just raised her hand now the message was we're friendly uh if you are flashback and so and it was running all night um and then i went to sleep it was it was obvious stuff in the mountains dark sky area we're trying to see the per seed meter shower uh but it was cloudy uh so we went to bed early and then uh but suddenly in the middle of the night there is just just hundreds of stuff just starting to just rattle the tent just just sounded like it was getting hit from all sides and it was just woke up it's like what in the world and um clearly something physical was outside our tent and john john goes over to me and he's just as weirded out by this as as i am but he goes if it's an alien don't react

59:07i'm considering how you can have a back i want to do it i mean don't don't tell me what to do anyway i didn't respond well uh to that uh coaching and um but anyways he feel put it up and basically we had hundreds thousands of just these bugs like grasshoppers hitting our tent just just banging on our tent and it was like okay um where'd that come from oh what in the world but anyways we were awake so we got up and we sat out at the picnic table and just started looking up and that's when we saw uh two clouds coming in towards each other so not like a front where the clouds would i'll be moving the same way uh these were coming towards each other and just before they combined the brightest flash i'd ever seen in my entire life happened really and it was it was not lightning it was a single point but it was it was incredibly big

1:00:11and again the two clouds were coming together so it's atmospherically not you know normal and then something something had to happen to wake us up so that we would be out there to look and then um john did you see the flash your light yeah it was just totally weird it's like i'm watching a movie or something with these two clouds coming together and and the only thing i could think i would be a satellite you know reflecting sometimes they can do that but nowhere near that bright is it was much brighter than a flash of lightning there's no sound there was no thunder heads around it there's no it wasn't lightning so i don't know how to explain it other than we had been sending up a message to flash light on that and ask for a flashback damn wow wow wow wow not coincidence not coincident can't prove anything but it was it was more than what you remember would uh Carl Sagan did uh with voyager uh where he uh you know the album right the cold record and the other

1:01:12information that he had there so um and in the binary code uh that um were hydrogen was one of the and so and his idea behind that was well hydrogen is universal right literally what the universe is you know built on and so et would have to understand a basic description of hydrogen and if we could do that then then you can start to establish maybe a form of communication because now you're figuring out numbers and letters and and so forth okay so that makes sense what if you did hydrogen in Morse code right or or math math in a Morse is something one of our people that that uh got the first uh UFO CQ um actually he took the the phone version and he started putting out

1:02:13his own he's been studying math and he's been trying to communicate through mathematics so he said i'm just going to put my math equations in there because there's no limit to uh the size of the message and so he has uh put math out there uh we've not heard back what his responses work but um he was so excited that he could just you know it's not a 16 character of thing or something limited to that you can put out whatever message that you want and it'll go out Morse code so it was it was his intent to communicate with math and i'm like that's an amazing thought yeah yeah yeah what if et uh we're going to take our break right here but what if et you know lands and goes you know you guys have been sending this math stuff nah that is so passing yeah yeah math is math is oh no no we deal with with colors and consciousness you know they said something like we gave up a math a million years ago

1:03:15yeah just just i mean that's that's that's kneeled to grass Tyson's problem right if you know what i mean you know what i'm saying where they uh the ideas of consciousness or maybe entangle men or houses communication happening or faster than light how is it interdimensional but how is this going down well kneeled to grass and others are are so tied to known laws of physics right we're talking they're breaking the known laws of physics dude what if they don't give a crap about any of that they don't understand our limitations yeah that's what i'm saying wait i mean with uh whatever they're doing it's easy um you mentioned uh CE5s but you don't call them CE5s can let's go back and visit what what do you what's what's your what's your name for communication in kind communication in kind who came up with that

1:04:19that would be john again communication in kind um what what is it about uh okay well i don't want to throw this to john i'm going to keep this on ej right now well john we're going to come back to you in a second what's different about your approach to uh group contact you know a CE5 version of it what's do you have your own protocols well uh yes well with the uh with the UFO secure or or any one of our pre-devices where we just put out a message you know just a positive one just actually make a request and um you'd like with that flash they they answered um in the same vein that we put out so we flashed lights at them they flashed lights at us that's in kind so and if it's in thought then you know maybe the communications telepathic or

1:05:19if you make a request that they appear um then it would be uh just making that connection but communication in kind is what we call it assuming again something like that they have a rule that they can't just overwhelm us but they can respond uh to the level that we actually communicate with them they can respond back at that same level again it's a it's a working theory that we have everything that we do is a working theory um but uh it's bearing itself out so that's that's why we call it communication in kind uh but it's it's human-initiated contact so it is technically CE5 do you do you guys meditate or play ET soundball music we have but not on skywatches um generally on the stage we're working on uh we're running cameras and various other things so

1:06:19we're quite active so to to quiet our minds and quite our that's difficult because we're um trying to run the equipment uh but we do have uh john is actually trying to work in the dog whistle tones into some of our skywatches but we've had again it's on the youtube channel but we've had great success uh in Colorado i think it's the guffy um sightings but we had just one CE5 and in dozens of lights appeared on the horizon but they weren't lights you could see but the cameras picked them up and uh low light uh night vision picked them up and so and we did it with two different cameras so we could see with both cameras um where this was we triangulated it we got seat speed altitude um and everything we found out that they were about 30 miles away and about 27,000 feet up so higher than helicopters but these guys danced around the horizon all night i mean like four hours

1:07:24and but you couldn't see them with your naked eye but you could see them with the equipment but we had put out the the request UFO show yourselves and we got an amazing response and then uh halfway through we said thank you and they they kept playing but i mean we were we were grateful for uh the response that we felt we got so john you don't meditate not not uh on this high watches or anything like that i don't really meditate on association with uh calling a man maybe i should try that more i think i probably should after you know well i i i've i've done uh major CE5 type events uh it's very frustrating for me to do those events because i'm allowed um i'm off that i'm offensive i um and so it's difficult for me to reel myself in and it's

1:08:25look people are taking the stuff very serious and and and seriously and they have their process and i and i do want to respect that i just don't have the patience for that and but respectfully i've i've gone through those processes most of those CE5 real CE5 events that i've done not much happens it's when you just do a sky watch i think it's more about intention with the group has you know what i mean a positive outflow of energy i think is the is the most important thing and because i've been out on sky watches with you know no meditation no sound bowls no singing bowls or whatever and just allowed boisterous happy crowd and stuff was jumping off all night long like incredible stuff so i think it's always about the intention i think that makes sense yeah just you know if you're thinking about

1:09:28them it tends to help i tend to be nuts and bolts and uh so i have a little hesitation to try things like that but in recent months or years here um you know i've really kind of opened my mind it there's nothing that's impossible most things might be highly improbable but you can't close your mind to anything anything is possible so just you know we we should try everything that's how i kind of feel e.j we um are quite spiritual between the two of us we we absolutely are and believe in all of that good stuff like i said but when we go out on sky watches we just go out open to whatever and hope that we can just ever something hope that something will show themselves um i don't like to go out with too many people because you start cross-wiring uh you know just there's a lot of interference psychically and you know the things so um we keep it to a smaller crowd and

1:10:33uh again we're just observing and and having a good time just enjoying the beauty this guy i've been looking up at the sky since i was a little kid and i when i'm out there it's it is spiritual i mean i don't have to be of meditating i'm just you know that's right that's right i totally agree with that um me you know what my CE5 protocol is what's that? Van Halen and pastrami sandwiches works every time works every time i i'm not i'm not cracking jokes here people i'm being very serious um i have i have shown up for sky watches with pastrami sandwiches you know and because i want to repeat the luck you know it's like game day you want to wear your favorite jersey or whatever it is right you don't want to jinx the situation um but yeah one night um uh

1:11:34again this is with steve marillo i've done hundred not hundreds but i've done a lot of sky watches with them and pat his wife and i and steve rollin lying in and chase lounges right? we're you know we've got our our binoculars and our night vision and stuff and we're just sitting and and and steve and i noticed this bright light inside of the big dipper and it's off up to my left i'm just kind of like man that wasn't there before now this this is over about an hour that i noticed this bright thing inside of the big dipper steve and i are sitting there uh talking and pat goes said anybody looking at that that bright light that just appeared in the big dipper i said yeah me and steve goes i noticed it too and so we're sitting there and it wasn't moving it was just there but it was bright and steve starts hitting it with the laser

1:12:36and this thing was flashing back and we spent i'd have to ask steve but i think we did that for about two hours yep just flipping back and forth with this thing until it it actually uh uh phase faded out it didn't fly away just like wasn't there anymore but it's there for two hours well that's some pressure oh man we we sat there for a long time um it was just funny how we all noticed it but nobody was saying anything you know what i mean and yeah but but that's part of looking up at the sky for so long you you notice when something is new we have we had an experience with the big dipper and the late also we were out uh doing uh uh well actually using the UFO CQ app on my phone that i developed it doesn't work as well but it does work and it's not near as bright as one of the problems but we had it going and saying UFO um flash light near the big dipper

1:13:38and after about 20 minutes or so we suddenly saw we were at the wet valley and big open area out in colorados and we saw often the distance just below the big dipper on the horizon just below it there was a green laser pointer from the ground coming up and sweeping around on the big dipper kind of and over the head above us too but you know it was like right there at the big dipper laser pointer from the ground so um can't prove that that was you know et or anything but it was we asked the guy that we were we were staying at an Airbnb and asked the guy so he never seen something like that and says never so you know another coincidence that's just kind of fun and it all heads up you know that's what makes all of this so special nobody has the answers you know i don't have them but nobody has the answers that's not the point of all of this is it it's going out and having fun

1:14:40and discovering for your own i think that is the most you're with a group of friends right you're just out having a good time you know something strange is going on so let's just see if we can see something together that is for me that is one of the most magical parts about all of this is going out and and doing i do it in my backyard i'll have ten ten friends over i've got a chair collection binoculars telescopes night vision and we just sit in the backyard and cook out and and look at the sky all night and you know what it's a good time it is and if you can add in kind of pushing the envelope a little bit on getting some real data at the same time that's kind of where we're at we're having fun with two cameras we go out and yeah when you when you do that again and you do see something hit report. euphotruck.com and see if other people can and and take a picture and see what happens so we can actually triangulate and see

1:15:43what's going on out there well what do you guys use uh EJ what's your favorite piece of gear? uh one we don't own yet which is the night vision monocular that is so cool but i love our i love our cameras the the uh really low light cameras so we can just see stuff uh it's you can see so much more uh than what you can see with the naked eye and somebody noticed i have two sets of glasses on so i just call me six eyes but um i'm constantly switching between seeing far away and seeing up close and um i don't have the best vision but when i get the camera uh film back oh my gosh just watching those stars and watching those star uh star watches sky watches uh just on my computer i put my i put music to it and i put my uh grandkids to sleep with them and i

1:16:44just watch the stars every afternoon with the kids as they go to sleep i just love watching the stars and i'm just in love with having those cameras capture as much as it can so um i like the camera that's my favorite John yeah yeah we've got a two Sony a7s two's or the or favorite cameras that are really low light and we can separate them two to ten twenty miles and get that triangulation going if we we have i also made a device that lets us synchronize in time perfectly to the nearest frame so we can uh really do the analysis accurately against the background of the stars we can calculate the azimuth and elevation of each star that we see and it's all possible it's really complicated math and stuff but it's kind of what we enjoy doing and yeah i uh i'd be lying if i didn't say that uh my night vision is my favorite piece of gear i've got two uh two pairs of uh

1:17:45of the good stuff yes for sure amazing but probably i think the most necessary piece of gear laser you have to when you see something you need to guide everybody else to it right oh i see something in somebody's pointing that's worthless right well no that's what i do with that um skywatches is i trained people when we go out with the group if we do we find what i call sky anchors and it's not north southeast west or anything like that it's like sky anchors so i'll say that's Cassiopeia that's the dipper uh that's whatever we all find them and then when people start seeing stuff they'll say look look at Cassiopeia and then we don't have to look at where they're pointing we know the general area of the sky so i call it grabbing sky anchors um that's good that's good yeah i didn't think about that but um they've got to be willing to be trained on that a little bit

1:18:48yeah yeah that's true yeah yeah it's time to learn constellations too yeah to do a skywatch for me without a laser and i've i've gone on on skywatches i have maybe a dozen lasers right so i can hand them out to everybody and uh one day i forgot the backpack with the lasers in it that skywatch was a draw i had the night vision right but when you have somebody looking and they see something and you don't have lasers that's uh that's uh that's a tough one you really need for me i think the laser you know people want to see i get that i yes but without a laser with a group of people it's uh it can get very frustrating it's the most uh easiest fun a tool to have when you're out there doing that kind of stuff that's my that's my thing but um i don't have to go ahead john yes of course you got to be real careful not

1:19:51to flash at a commercial airliner or anything like that so it's the first thing i do yeah that's that's more for everybody to be aware of so get circle things with the laser pointer or something like that but yeah i don't don't get in trouble oh uh one night before we move on uh i'm i'm on this mountain with billy Carson and we've got maybe 15 people with us and we've got night vision we've got the lasers and everything so we're on this mountain clear view milky way incredible out in the in the desert and uh and i look off to my left which would have been due west but i see this gold ball coming towards us gold it's gold orange pretty bright and this is what billy says john okay man then it looks like an airplane nobody points your lasers at it and we don't want the police coming on here i was like okay camp counselor okay we're not going to point the lasers at it

1:20:56and this thing comes all the way over and billy's it's an airplane man it's an airplane and it stops right above us and now it's pretty good size too it's gold ball and then it goes whoop straight up out into space and Carson goes and i quote well i guess that wasn't an airplane oh man but yeah you can't you don't want to be uh especially with some of the high powered lasers that i'm sure you guys have um you know that that can kill a small rodent right if you pointed it at it uh yeah yeah you don't want to be pointing that at an airplane that is not cool uh not cool at all um the reason why i brought that up is because you um uh the invest uh the investigators tool kit um can you take us through that uh sure i um i like to write tools and software and stuff so

1:22:06uh create i've been creating little apps and stuff that uh run on the web so you can run it on your phone you don't have to download an app or anything they're all free to use it's on the tool kits. ufo-track.com and tools.ufo-track.com tools yes that's it tools.ufo-track.com there's a few that are kind of not that useful but there's some that are very useful the one i think is most useful is the sky data it i've i've got tired of trying to figure out if Venus is in the sky by going to Stellarium you know you can get all this information one way or the other but so i pull it all together and did the calculations to uh instantly tell you right here and now or you can put in a date and time in a location that's different and it'll show you exactly which of the major planets the visible planets and the sun and the moon uh where they're at the sky and uh just you know right instantly so it makes it a lot easier to get that data so somebody says i had to bend Venus we can find out real quick and verify yours you reading a book and it says

1:23:09that a sighting in 1954 by a pilot well you can go find out if it was above the horizon or not or where it was and if they were flying the right direction yeah uh when you scroll down through this so uh ufo-cq uh which we have been talking about but the angular size this program helps convert inches or center meters held at typical arms length this is a common sense tool that everybody should so how big was it well uh when i right okay well there you go um uh astral compass right uh finding true north uh by using the sun in the moon or your shadow this phone app is designed to help you find absolute directions that is a huge necessary tool i like that 50 mile radius tool of uh a circle of influence color identification go ahead ej that the 50 mile tool is for the members to figure out uh because we can't go out 50 miles or

1:24:14100 miles or even up to 500 miles if you become a member of ufo track you can receive alerts in from that far away if you'd like uh so you can visually see what a 50 mile uh circle looks like with you know your house pinpointed and then what a hundred looks like and everything like that so it's just a really nice visual tool and we use that for uh having the members choose how far they want to get notified from and it's pretty cool that john is a geek oh yeah he's a full geek he's a full nerd he's a he doesn't look like one but um but hey it's a compliment um but decimal degrees to convert degrees minutes and seconds invaluable tool uh simple right uh earth distance and bearing that's the cool that's a really handy one that's handy yep yep you want when you're

1:25:16out and if you're investigating a sighting and somebody says well it was right in that direction and you want to get the asthma towards what they saw there's a standard you know hold a compass and try to figure it out as accurate as you can and that's fairly accurate but if you use that tool you can actually get your latitude and longitude from a GPS on your phone where the sighting took place and you can have somebody walk out uh 100 yards or the further the better actually but let's say 100 yards get the asthma or the latitude and longitude at that location you put those two into this tool and then you have the exact direction asthma uh where north is zero and east is 90 and on so on so it can really help with things like that that you don't think about how to get it really accurate asthma yeah yeah yeah yeah the this is uh this is really cool stuff um and also the elevation angle and i'll tell you why well you're gonna tell me why but how many times have you heard and it doesn't even have to be about UFOs it could be about anything right where they

1:26:21go well you know it was at 28 degrees and and most people right over their head they have no idea what they are referencing this is a big deal when you go well it was about right that's that's what we're talking about here elevation angle uh from the horizon to an object is invaluable i mean that is that's a non-trivial aspect to all of this and people get it wrong all the time to if one of the things you can do is use that sky data if you see the moon in the sky before you do anything else just try to guess what is the elevation angle up to the moon and then go to the sky data and see what it really is and you can get that feedback to get a better estimate because people really like something that's at 45 degrees they'll they'll guess it's way different than that and that kind of practice can really help get more accuracy yeah yeah exactly what's the field of view oh that that gets into the analysis of photos and videos where you get the metadata for a photo

1:27:25let's say and it tells you how many pixels and the the focal length you can do the calculations to find out for every pixel across the screen how many degrees that little each pixel step is so you can like if you see a disc you could get the left edge and the right edge in terms of the pixel location in your photo and then from these tools you can do calculations like well that's an angular size an angular size is another thing that confuses people you know people say it was about size of a basketball held at arms length or it was a size of an orange an orange at arms length are across the parking lot what you know what do you mean by an orange and work there were two pictures those would be where you can get solid data for size distance and everything we've got another video that's called the lyrid objects where two cameras 26 feet apart and we saw something

1:28:26strange in the sky and we were able to measure it get its speed size altitude and distance just because we could do that and with his field of view we knew how many how big the each pixel really was in real life because we had two cameras measuring it so but so field of view we'll use in the triangulation as well is EJ the real geek EJ's mathematician she's she's she's she's she's we uh when we met we both had the same job programming I was I was like a college intern and then um my father who by the way you're shouting out to my father every time I see your shirt because his name was Floyd I love it very cool very cool but yeah anyways uh I through nepotism I worked for him but uh John was hired by him and so we worked together in the eighties uh both as programmers uh and then I went away to college and lived

1:29:32lived my life and then we got together much later but we've been friends since 81 and uh yeah we're we're hit we we fire on the same cylinders I just I just went a more math route and and he was the more electronics and technical fantastic fantastic I mean that is just uh there's words for it there's some deep philosophical things uh for that kind of a meeting and the relationship but that's that's really really cool um for for the two of you to to add to the other like that that I'm not talking about math that you know to to support each other like that that's just amazing um one of the things uh I'm talking about the field of view again when when you're looking at the sky today okay so you look at the sky normal night normal night if you talk to an astronomer they're

1:30:37going to tell you on an average night no matter where you are on earth if you look up to the sky you you can observe between three and five thousand stars okay all right all right that's kind of the accepted number um now we know that every star that we look at has a planet and it wasn't like that 30 years ago we were still the only thing right and now today everything and then throw in night vision throw in your low light cameras and where you're not looking at 5,000 stars you're looking at 250,000 stars and 250,000 planets or more right or more depending on on the situation how wonderful is that John how how just beautiful is that well you're mind me of one of the tools in that toolkit if you scroll down is I think it's named pennies from

1:31:42heaven um I did an interesting calculation that is along the same lines what you're talking about but it just blows my mind every time I think about it if you uh get the very latest information from NASA and other sources and it's in the app you can run this planet predictor planet predictor okay you can play with the numbers but it basically boils down to yes there's on the average one planet per star that's what they think right now and they know that approximate number of stars in our galaxy I think it's 200 billion they know now that number of galaxies in the visible universe and might be more if you take all those numbers and then you also consider of all those planets how many are in the habitable zone that is where liquid water can exist so that it can be like the earth if you take all those factors and you do the math and you see well how many habitable zone planets are there in the known universe it's a staggering number it's much bigger than people can you we can't even understand how big of a number that is well what I did was I said well if

1:32:45if each of those are a US penny you could lay them side by side row by row and start covering you know a square meter and then you could start covering the whole continental United States the whole land area the whole continental United States cover pennies side by side and then you have to stack that up higher till it's about six miles deep that's how many habitable zone planets are predicted to be out there so the fact is it's it's it's an unbelievably big number okay so along those same lines okay all right along those same lines this is a guitar pick okay we all know how big a guitar pick is not very big right the size of a quarter if you take this in your backyard and put it up anywhere any point in the night sky you're looking at 250,000 galaxies well think about that on any point on earth

1:33:55and if you move it over 250,000 more and 250,000 more and 250,000 that's right and all I the number is so big you know it's yeah you take this here's the other crazy part take this and put it into a blank spot in the sky where there's no stars 250,000 galaxies are there yeah it's mind blowing it's mind blowing okay okay very important geosynchronous and geostationary satellite calculation the the announcement came last week I I don't know if you heard this officially SpaceX has over 10,000 satellites now it's the

1:35:00numbers 10,023 how did they get to that well last week they launched on a Falcon 9 25 more SpaceX satellites which took them to 10,023 the goal now for them in the next seven years is they want to get to a million the number is a million and they want mirrors now they want to be able to direct he wants data centers right AI data centers that low gravity and using the energy from the sun with solar panels is more efficient than processing stuff on earth what is that going to do to the night sky right yeah it could really mess things up it's was a big trade off definitely it's a really awesome technology but yeah it's gonna be it's gonna change how we look at the sky at night that's for sure how many if SpaceX has got 10,000 just in their constellation with everything

1:36:11else that's up there I forget the latest numbers but there is a lot of what's gonna happen if something goes whack and once satellite collides into another and then collides into another and then we have debris and the next thing you know we've got a pile up you know that you have during a winter snow storm on the freeway of satellites do you fear something like that happening I think that could be a real problem like you see the old I think it was Disney made a movie where they had mouse traps all over room and they had ping pong balls on them and throw one in there and all of a sudden they all start going off so if you have a crash between these things and two satellites and they throw out a lot of particles those are bullets and the high speed bullets that can cause damage and cause other satellites to crash so if you get to a certain critical mass it could do it I did read an article recently that it's not quite as dangerous as they thought it would be at this point but it still

1:37:13worries me and how that Kessler Kessler event yeah Kessler event yep yeah that's right but yeah going back to the satellites um with our low light cameras we see satellites going over all the time lots and lots of satellites can't even see if the human eye or the naked eye and uh but that's where when people report a light going across this kite as an investigator you almost have say well if it could have been a satellite that's as far as you can go with it but that's one of the things with the two cameras that we're out to do is to measure the altitude of that thing and if we can find a satellite that's at 60 miles it's not a satellite and that pushes the point we can say somebody needs to explain this one this is not a satellite because triangulation shows it's at 60 miles or something in the no-fly zone we talked about now what about what about uh I have the feeling EJs can answer this what about the direction of satellites uh in uh or objects uh that are

1:38:14traveling east west or west east east west and then north and south and then others that are at off axis completely that are running north northeast you know south you know what I mean that typically we're going to see something you know east west equator bound that makes a lot of sense but north west so what about those objects that that aren't traveling in your typical satellite orbit well there's so many different orbits there's polar orbits there's geostationary orbits there's elliptical orbits this that and the other thing and they're all up there for some reason because they're doing something trying to watch a certain area of the earth or being something back to a certain area of there so the the math for that specific orbit is not exactly unique to each one but there's so many that it's it's tough to to keep track of so but when

1:39:18you look at the night sky you'll see uh satellites that are going this way and then it just looks like they're just about to cross paths or collide because uh you just there there's so many up there that you just it looks like they're on a freeway but what we like with one of the things we want to do again with our math is figure out if things are in the no-fly zone between 20 miles and 100 miles but in addition to that if it's above 100 miles so it is in orbit one of the things that we can do is again with triangulation get the speed and if it's not at orbital velocity then it's being propelled so we'll be able to tell if the straight line lights are moving at the appropriate speed as well so we'll be able to again look for UFOs in places that nobody else is looking at our places where generally they get dismissed because they're just a straight line light but if they're

1:40:20behaving strangely if they move it all if they you know deviate from the path will have them on camera from here to here and we'll be able to you know have you guys found something in the no-fly zone? uh not yet but we have found thing we have found satellites that curve so they are they satellites we only had one camera on that one at that point in time uh and we've seen the things where we've triangulated at uh at the 27,000 foot level so weight low but again not quite where airplanes go and they don't stay in the same general areas not helicopters because helicopters don't generally go above 5,000 so we've found things that are in places that they shouldn't be or aren't typically anyways and uh but no we're we've yet to get to the holy grail of the no-fly zone we just need to do more and more sky watches and that's again one of the things that we do we're going to

1:41:24have I don't know how many sky watches we've got planned this year but we've got uh stay tuned get on that UFO uh track YouTube channel because we're gonna publish what we do is we we overlay both of the cameras uh images and one of them is half opaque so you can see through it and we overlay and you can see the satellites go through uh from both cameras so you can see if it's on the same path and you can see if they're super close or far away so we can start telling just from that overlay that one's suspicious because you shouldn't have that much of an optical difference um if it's a normal satellite so it's probably lower so we'll be able to tell these guys uh pretty quickly if we're seeing strange ones but then we're gonna have to do the math for what's their speed uh I'm very so the things to see if we're seeing anything exotic and uh it takes a little while for those that analysis and things like that but we're we're finding some weird shit yeah I know all you have to do if

1:42:32you want to see weird shit look up you're not gonna see it if you're looking down people you know now I'm gonna you know I'm in I'm in Denver you guys are in Denver I'm in Denver every month um uh period right so maybe we can get something lined up and I would like to come out and hang out with you guys uh one of these nights and and let's let's do something together plus summers here and hopefully this weird weather in Denver I gotta tell you that was the strangest winter I've ever experienced in Denver I agree I agree today it was 15 degrees above the record the previous record high record high was well 14 degrees was 75 and 89 we blew past that record high that was crazy yeah it's so last week uh two weeks ago it's a it's a blur now two weeks ago I'm out there uh I land I'm at the hotel it's 70 degrees okay I woke up in the morning it was zero

1:43:45and the cold the coldest I'm like what happened so I'm I'm on my app I'm like okay light jacket you know it's gonna be fine and for the next three days I was like what happened and uh it was just like bizarre uh the temperatures like that from from day to day just up and down up and down up and down and not much snow um and but you know what it's snowed two weeks ago when I was there it's snowed it's snowed two weeks ago that one night then it's and then two days later was in the 80s yes I know I know I got back to LA what's going on but uh so I'll be out there all summer and uh yeah let's see if we can line something up uh let's keep uh let's there's a couple other things this toolkit is very very cool and very important um so let's uh uh let's dance on the shake the cyst uh uh identifier um I've seen a little bit of everything and I

1:44:51think everybody kind of does I don't I don't understand why most people think that all you opposed are the same no I think I honestly I think they should all be different that makes more sense to me my theory is that there's I think we're being uh visited by a few civilizations on a routine basis but I think we're getting uh people or entities ET whatever coming here one off just every once in a while but at a constant rate it's just kind of trickling in so and each and every one of those uh anti-gravity vehicles is probably built different you know so you get all kinds of shapes and sizes that's my theory is that we're not dealing with one civilization here we're dealing with when you look at the number of pennies each of those planets represents you know infinite infinite yeah and if they if they can break the speed of light once they can get to anywhere um and if one civilization can break the speed of light then thousands and millions of them probably can't yeah that's right that's right uh balls of light

1:45:57and especially at night you can't see necessarily the shape of it and that can be a little bit repetitive because you're looking at colors and you can't see a general shape but if you see something during the day uh are you going to see things to end your lifetime like the same exact object that you saw be I don't know I don't think so I think it's all different I've never seen two things that were the same right I don't think I have either I've seen a couple very weird things but they weren't the same you're right right right right which is the way it should be now uh the sky data uh given any latitude is this like um I use uh I have to look up on my phone but is this a night sky I use night sky is that what this is a version of that it's kind of like when I worked for EJ's dad uh we were doing solar energy calculations for um aiming heliostats

1:47:01and photovoltaic trackers so I got to calculate where the sun was at with high accuracy and that involves all kinds of astronomical formulas so I learned a lot about that kind of calculation and there's what is called the VSOP 87 theory it's it's very very high accurate so I use that in the sky data to get really accurate numbers so when you look at there and it says the azimuth is 57.25 it really was very very close to that right right right um sky data is versatile in the way that uh if you are investigating a UFO sighting just that quick you can find out what else is in the sky and you know wasn't Jupiter wasn't Venus etc what about what about what about what about SpaceX um no no no uh what I'm saying is so many people are looking up and seeing a train of SpaceX objects you know going by I've seen it I got to tell you I freaked out the first time I saw

1:48:04it I didn't know what they have starlings yeah starlings and so what about that uh do you have satellite tracking and and starling data well the starling satellites are just like the other satellites there's just so many of them up there and if you see them you're kind of following each other that's probably a starling train they can be close together over time they spread out but we we don't need to double up on some of the data that's already out there that would be in Stellarium already right right right we already know where those tools are we can just use those tools but no the the sky data again you can use it to investigate UFO stuff but you can also use it when you're on a real-time sky watch um and just do here and now and find out what's in your field of view right then when you're out there and that's one great way again sorry to get a sky anchor and help people find um or you know help people communicate when they're all on a sky watch together that's why that's why I say it's versatile you can use it in real-time you can use it in

1:49:07investigations and solving triangles we just have a couple of minutes left but we have a two-camera object we have digitizing ratios uh the bone sensor accelerometer uh magnetometer uh this is uh uh this is insane and do you teach people how do you use all of this um they're not really well let's see what we do on two nights that's part of the membership is that we teach people how to do the tools on Tuesday nights we meet on a weekly basis we want for the next three weeks because I'm having another grand baby but uh starting congratulations thank you wow and you said another I haven't had my first one yet I have had I didn't have any till I was 62 and now I've got four you are blessed that's amazing yeah I'm excited they're all little I'm 62 I'm still at

1:50:11I'm still at zero so I keep writing my daughter I keep I'm it's E Jam mom okay so what's going on you know are we gonna do this or not you know there's there's angel stories that go with the all of our babies so it's really fun yeah it's awesome that is awesome so uh we just got a minute left so you said uh when do you guys get together uh uh two spin nights at seven o'clock okay um long time uh we always have a zoom where we go over the sightings of the week you know whether it was a report dot UFO track com or something that came in from one of the UFO sense devices we talk about uh you know anything that that might be pertinent to those sightings uh where they were how many people got notified uh what they saw how many people saw it and uh so we do a debrief a weekly debrief and then we'll do um a weekly training uh going down

1:51:14this or you know something else that might be pertinent for uh what people are experiencing out there so we just open it up for general conversation and uh training and uh the weekly debrief this you guys are amazing uh please keep your foot on the gas all right keep your foot on the gas you guys have done some uh uh amazing things and huge strides but the community needs you needs more like you and and the world needs you but uh your work and you guys are fun um this is just a really really good show in any way that i can help uh please reach out to us and and reach out to michelle and if there's anything that we can do uh to help it uh support you what we're here for you thank you so much thank you very much yeah wait did you chat on the sky watch that man oh okay remember man hailing yeah pastrami sandwiches okay i'll bring the pastrami okay i'll talk to you guys so uh yeah i'll be out there in two weeks but uh i'll reach out to

1:52:18you offline uh eJ thank you so much john thank you so much and i really enjoyed it and i look forward to having you on the show again very soon thank you so much thank you have a great night you're back perfect that's a perfect night on the show now everybody uh it's very very very simple to do we've got it up in the chat it's all right there it's uf o track and dot com uf o hyphen track dot com we have the links for below on our website and on social media and also right here in the chat um and thank you john uh thank you bill and thank you jesica for keeping everything up on the chat tonight thank you again bill i see it right there uh i'll get this up there it is right there okay uf o track dot com i am your host image church i did want to mention uh

1:53:21really quick uh we have a little programming uh announcement for tomorrow night tomorrow night Tyler Engle is going to be with us uh base forge that's right so go check out base forge uh check out Tyler uh tonight on his instagram and his youtube channel uh very interesting work and research that he is doing right now um uh largely focused on ancient civilizations uh around the world uh with the focus on egypt um and also what is going on with current research uh in on the key supply toe so we're going to be doing all of that a much more tomorrow night uh with base forge Tyler Engle is with us danian brinkley is under the weather we will reschedule danian uh very soon all right so i'll see everybody tomorrow night but for now all i've got is go backly tepe baby black is produced by hilton j palmer and a newman and michelle free special thanks to bill

1:54:29jock dex jessica denis and kevin wet master is drew the geek music by dugolbridge in trove's space boy baby black is produced by kjcr for the game changer network this broadcast is owned and copyrighted two thousand twenty four by fade the black and the game changer network ink it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded copy to be used anywhere in the known universe without written permission for fade the black or the game changer network i'm your host jimmy church go backly tepe you

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