Ep. 287 - BUDDY MILLER (Does My Ring Burn Your Finger?)

0:00Welcome to SongCraft. I'm Paul Duncan. And I'm Scott B. Beaumont. You're listening to Loser's Celebration, written and recorded by our guest, Bloody Miller. Singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer and Americana music legend, Buddy Miller, has worked with Willie Nelson, Linda Ronstadt, Robert Plant, Elvis Castello, John Fogarty, Emilio Harris, Lucinda Williams, Solomon Burke, Richard Thompson, Steve Earl and many others. The four-time nominee earned a Grammy for his production work on Patigriffins acclaimed Downtown Church Album. He has taken home 14 Americana music awards, including multiple album of the year,

1:00song of the year, instrumentalist of the year and artist of the year, Wens. Buddy was honored with the organization's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2022 and was previously named Artist of the Decade by No Depression. In addition to serving as Executive Music Producer for ABC TV's Nashville series, Buddy has released seven studio albums as a solo artist, a duo album with Jim Lauderdale, and four duo albums with his wife and longtime musical partner, Julie Miller. Buddy's most recent project, his first solo album in 22 years, is the self-titled Buddy Miller. Part One. Well, Scott, you and I have been to a lot of shows together over the years since we met in 1990 or whenever it was. And one of those shows, I think, was in 2012. We went to the Trubidor here in Los Angeles to see Jim Lauderdale and Buddy Miller, which is an awesome night. And we went to that show together, but when we had the opportunity to talk to Buddy Miller, unfortunately, we weren't

2:05able to do that together. No, I did this one solo. Yeah, I was out of town. You were. And I got to be honest, I was a little nervous about this one. Not because I wasn't here. Not because you weren't here, although you are a bit of a security blanket to me. But I have followed Buddy Miller's career from the beginning, basically, and I'm a big fan. So sometimes when we're getting ready to interview somebody that I really admire their music, I get a little bit more worked up about it. And you can identify with that little spoiler alert. We've got a Bernie Topp and interview coming up soon. I think when we did that interview, you felt very similarly that my hands are still a little shank. Right. So I think it's like when you admire somebody's work, you already have a certain degree of respect for them, but to them, you're a stranger. And you want them to

3:09appreciate your appreciation of them. Right. And like, how do you communicate that without tripping out over your cell? Well, there's such a fine line, right? You know, I move out of the Chris Farley show sketches on SNL, which is kind of maybe the worst nightmare. But you know, you don't want to be the guy that's like, and I have every record. Right. And I've heard every song, and I made you a cake. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So what was like wildly disarming and also like pretty cool is we got on the zoom and we just kind of started chatting and buddy was familiar with some of my work and specifically referenced book that I had written and a box set that I produced. So that was very cool that he appreciated my work. So we had this great conversation and it was I was hugely relieved. There was no need for me to have been nervous. He's a very cool guy. And yeah, so it was it was a lot of fun and sorry you weren't here for it. Yeah. Well, you know what, I'm

4:10going to have a chance to listen to it like everybody else. I thought about just putting myself in the interview and maybe taking the session home. Right. Or just let AI do it. Yeah, just let AI do it. And but then I thought I won't do that yet. No, I'm going to maybe do that later in the year. Maybe next year. But for now, we're going to stay analog. You might go on vacation for a year and just have AI Paul do it all for you. So one of the things that buddy and I talked about is Solomon Burke. He produced an album on Solomon Burke and he was talking about the songs that they discussed doing and there was only one song that he said Solomon was pretty adamant about. And he said it was a Dalai Parton song. And basically he said, you know, Solomon basically just wanted to meet Dalai Parton. And so they did the song and Dalai Parton did in fact come over to Buddy's house where they produced it and and appeared on it. And he had some great stories about working with Solomon Burke and just mentioning that Dalai Parton thing. And it was the day after

5:14that I did this interview with Buddy that Dalai died. And you know, our parents and people of that generation can always tell you, this is where I was when John F Kennedy was shot. You know, they all have a specific memory. I was at the doctors at Kaiser Permanente sitting waiting for them to call me into my doctor's appointment when I got a New York Times news alert on my phone that's a Dalai Parton has died. I did not see that coming. And man, I mean, it was just like she's such, she's truly kind of the one person that all of America agrees on. I mean, I'm sure you can find some weirdos on the internet that have some sort of criticism. But for the most part, I think all Americans love and respect Dalai Parton. And she was such a media figure and such a kind of larger than life character that it's easy to forget that one of the most bedrock things about her was she was a killer songwriter. Yeah. It's I can't think of anyone else who has felt like the girl next

6:22door in so many ways, but who is so clearly not the girl next door. Everything about it was kind of larger than life in her presentation. And yet she somehow kind of made eye contact with the entire world. Right. And everyone felt even people that had never met her felt seen. Right. Which is pretty crazy. And she somehow kept her small townness. Right. As she kind of reached the very apexes of success and became well known in societies across the world. But you're right. I mean, the fact that Dalai Parton was a world class, one of a kind songwriter has almost been overshadowed, but overshadowed by things that I almost don't mind that they're by her goodness. Right. You know, by philanthropy. Exactly. It's not like they've been overshadowed by scandal. They've been overshadowed by these other incredibly positive parts of her personality. And I don't really ever hear anyone say, oh, well, let me tell you about this Dalai Parton horror story that you know, and if anyone has

7:26one of those, I don't want to hear it. But if anybody has, you probably would have heard it, you know, considering the proximity to, you know, people who were active in the music business during the time when she was most active. Both of us grown up in Nashville. People don't mind telling you the dirt on somebody. Yeah. Yeah. People don't mind bringing a hero down. Right. And if there was any dirt to be found, I'm pretty sure one of us would have heard it by this point. You know, don't you think? Yeah. I posted this story on the interwebs recently on the social media as they as the kids say. They're the kids are so in it. But like two weeks before Dalai died, my dad told me this story that he hadn't told me before. And we actually had an episode of Songcraft with my dad as the guest. So Woody Beaumont, you guys can go back and listen to that. But he was telling this story about when he was in college and he went to Combine Music, which was a publishing company. And he was meeting with Bob Beckham who ran Combine Music. And my dad's like, you know, this college kid who's trying to get a publisher to listen to his songs.

8:30Yeah. And he's like, Bob Beckham was in the room. A couple other guys were in the room that worked at Combine. And they were kind of like just joking around. And he's like, I'm just this young kid desperately trying to get their attention to listen to my songs. And here I've got this opportunity to play a song for a real publisher. And he said, and then this girl walks in the room. And she pops in and she goes, Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just had to let you know I just got a call from Porter Wagner. He asked me to be the girl singer on his show. And you know, my dad didn't know who this was, but he says this woman who came in was just so magnetic. He's like, she was beautiful, but very down to earth and just instantly likable. Instantly just changed the room when she walked into it. And then he says, you know, a few weeks later, I'm watching TV. And I see her again. And Porter Wagner says, please welcome Dolly Parton. And he said, you know, so he said already just in her, she was about the same age as

9:32my dad. So she would have been, you know, very young 20s. He was like, already she just had that absolutely mesmerizing charisma that when she walked in a room, you knew it. And he's like, it certainly didn't help me get everybody's attention on my songs. But I don't know how my dad had never told me that story somehow in all these years. But he had just a couple weeks before she died. Told me that which I was like, man, what a great story. And think of how many of those stories there are, you know, from people that met her, knew her. And I think about how many stories she had. And I think about what a thrill it would have been to talk to Dolly about her career and about her songs. And we did try. It's not that we didn't try. So, but I feel like we just, we sort of join America and the world in a collective morning. And to be honest, there is something kind of refreshing about all of us thinking the same thing, you know, even for a few days. But that could be one of the biggest parts of her legacy. And I would also add as an equal pillar

10:35to that is the songwriting is such a great songwriter. I mean, Code of Many Colors, she's got an early song called The Bridge, which is like so dark. She could just write about life, you know. And, you know, my Tennessee Mountain Home and all those things that sort of kept her connected to her roots like you were talking about. But to be able to then write nine to five, which is about sort of the urban, you know, grind with as much authenticity. She was able to just take a song and embody whatever character she was writing about a truly gifted songwriter and a truly special person. So the unifying force that was Dolly Parton, I don't know that anybody could fill those shoes. Part two. Buddy, welcome to Songcraft. Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to it. It's great to speak with you. I have been a fan of your music all the way since your first album. And other fans might not even realize the album I'm talking about because it was a

11:36bit of an obscure album that came out before your better known what people probably think of as your first album. And we'll get into that. But today I want to start by talking about your newest album, which is self titled. It's called Buddy Miller. And you have been putting out music for a long time now. Normally you see somebody putting out a self titled record earlier in their career as a way of introducing themselves. I'd love to get your insights on why at this point in your career is, hey, this is self titled. This is just my name. Well, if I knew it was going to be any kind of deal about that it made, I probably would have thought of another name for it. It was just the lack of, I couldn't usually, when I'm working on a record, it takes on a life of its own. I might have an idea of what I want it to be when I start and I'm completely open to going

12:41wherever it goes. And then as it finds itself titles might pop out from lyrics or something. In this case, nothing was popping out. And after a while, and I needed to turn the record in, I thought, you know, I feel okay about it. Just how about it just is me? Yeah. Yeah. You've done a lot of projects over the years, particularly with your wife and musical partner Julie. You guys have put out a number of duo records. And you put out a fair amount of solo records and she's done solo records as well. So you guys have kind of appeared in different configurations. And the press for your new album says that you hadn't put out a solo album in 15 years, which I guess would refer to the Majestic Silver Strings project, which I almost think of as living in its own

13:45sort of realm. Yeah, that didn't feel like a solo record. I don't even know how much of that I sing on. That was just kind of another circus project that I put together, that you know, a dream project that I wanted to do. Right. I think the last record I put out was a Universal United House of Prayer, which 2004. I don't know. Is that when that was 2004? That was before that. Yeah. 2004. So we're talking, you know, 22 years. That's hard to believe. I feel like that record. I feel like I remember when it came out. It doesn't feel like it's been that long ago. But I did want to ask you about timing, because that was kind of the last buddy Miller solo record. And you've certainly been a very busy person as a producer, as a performer. Like I said, doing duet records with Julie, but a fair amount of time has passed since we've had a record that's just buddy Miller. So why now? You know, I don't know. I wasn't planning on recording.

14:46I worked on a TV show, Nashville for ABC. That was a, my wife got Julie. Had gotten a lot of health issues. And I felt like I'd spent so much time on the road. When she couldn't tour anymore with me, or you know, us together, I just had such a, I was broke for so much of our lives that I just just, you know, always you get stuck in that mentality, everything you do. I just wanted to do all the work. And you know what? All the work I got offered was incredibly fulfilling and great and creative. And I loved every minute of it. But after around that time, whenever that ABC Nashville show started, I also realized it's time for me to transition to being home and hang in with Julie more. And if she's not going to be out,

15:46I'm just taking care of her. And, you know, I love her. That's my job, really. So yeah, it was, I got a call from Callie Curry. Whenever that ABC pilot was made, it was a funny thing. I was on this Kayamo cruise. You might have heard of that. There's a bunch of cruises now. There weren't too many back then. And waiting to call home, waiting to call Julie, getting one bar, you know, we're just pulling into port two bars. Okay, I'm about to dial. And my phone rings and it's Callie Curry, who I knew from the Raising Sand, Robert Plant Alice and Kraus Ture. I was playing guitar on that. And she said, hey, I'm, I'm going to be doing a pilot for a show. Do you want to do music? It turned out it wasn't all the music, but it was a bunch of songs for it, some of which set the tone for the for the show. And I said, yeah, sure, I'd been recording at my house around that time with Robert Plant a lot writing and recording in our little, you've been in, I think you were in the

16:50studio when it was a studio. You had a big console. Yeah. It's never been a studio, but it had gear. Now it's a kitchen. But anyway, that felt like a real good time to transition to being home. Yeah. A possible TV show. And the pilot got picked up, obviously, and T-bone stepped in when it got picked up to be executive music producer. But I worked really closely with T-bone for that season one. Everything he did in Nashville. I was doing with him and learned so much. And then when it drove him crazy, and he stepped away from the vehicle, I took over his executive music producer for seasons two, three, and four. And I loved it. And it was a great way to be home. It was a lot of work, but it was being in the studio a few times a week and production chops got up. Yeah. So it was fun. Yeah. Anyway, it was a long answer to a question you didn't ask.

17:55It was a perfectly long answer to a question I did ask. Okay. I want to talk about your identity as a songwriter. You are a virtuoso guitarist. You are an incredible singer and performer. You are a band leader. You are a producer. You wear a lot of musical hats. One thing I have noticed about your songwriting credits is that to my knowledge, there's not a buddy Miller song credited to buddy Miller solo. So what that tells me is that you are very much a collaborator. And I would also call you a curator in the way that I think Emile Harris is. You have an ability to take original songs, put them on records with these unearthed gyms that you found. And for instance, on your new record, you've got this

19:00Garnett Memes cover. And that is sitting alongside original songs. In the case of the new record, you've got three original songs credited to you and Julie. And you find a way as curator and collaborator, I think to make all of these things interlock on a record and sound like they all belong to each other. And I suspect that your role as a songwriter might be a little nontraditional in that sense that I see you almost in that collaborative curation role. And I'd like to get your thoughts on my observation if I'm kind of barking up the right tree there or how you view yourself as a as a writer and creative person. Well, I was so drawn to songwriters from a really young age. I mean, I would study the backs of records when they'd come out. And that's where I would see all the names of songwriters. And I'd go out and look for records that have those

20:06songwriters that I was drawn to on there. I found that I could, you know, I could do music and melody. And that's, you know, I can throw out some pretty horrible words sometimes they get in there. But my my my trick for being a good songwriter is to marry well. Literally Julie's a great yeah, she's a great songwriter. And I found less of a need for me to labor in that department with her in the house and her having notebooks full of stuff that was beautiful. So yeah, I'd come up with a few lines here and there, but I wouldn't feel that it's not that's not in me. I was drawn. I wanted something to sing when I was a kid. Yeah, you know, I wanted to sing. I wanted to play guitar when I got my first guitar. I thought this is magical. At the same time, I would, you know, I got my first little taper quarter, a little

21:13tiny. It took three inch reels, had two D cells, I think I don't remember or C cell batteries in it. No, no capstone. I don't think. So I don't, so the speed was, you know, very warbly, but it had a microphone. And my grandfather had a five and ten cent store. So he knew I was drawn to this stuff. And at that point, however young I was when I got my first guitar, I don't know, nine or ten, I was able to clip the microphone on the sound hole. I was able to get my father's wooden little radio, tabletop radio, and somehow I figured out that there was an RCA connector connecting the tuner section to the amplifier section. And I would, you know, destroy, it was still workable, but he'd get it back from my room sometimes with that wire disconnected and I'd find a way to get the microphone plugged in there and run my guitar through his radio. And just,

22:15I'd start experimenting. I would, when a little bit older, and we got a, and I had a stereo, we had a stereo, I realized, yeah, I guess, you know, high school years, I realized I could rewire or just switch wires on the phono cartridge. And it would throw the stereo program out of phase, through the speakers, and it would cancel out stuff that was, I guess, in the middle, I forget what it was now, because it's been a minute. And, you know, I'd take acid and listen to George Jones records that were, it was like a whole different mix that I was listening to and go, what's going on with this? So I was drawn to production, I was drawn to playing, I didn't know what making records even entailed, but I loved the process, what I thought it was. And kind of dove into that and just, you know, I was never a great guitar player, but I got better. And I think you

23:16just, just from doing it every night. It's interesting because I very much perceive you as someone who is entirely disinterested in the spotlight. You seem to be someone who's just passionate about music and in love with music, and you're an incredibly talented musician and artist, but you don't strike me as someone who needs attention or needs to be praised necessarily. And when I look at songwriting credits, you know, I, there's entire albums that you and Julie have done where everything is credited to Julie and you have, you know, no writer credit at all. But then there are plenty of examples of songs that are credited to, to both of you. And I don't see you as a guy who's like, well, I got to get my name on a, on a song if I can, you know, so there is, there is something that is a delineation there that I'd like to dig into a bit. In terms of where you view,

24:22you know, arranging or coming up with a guitar lick or something like that that you wouldn't necessarily consider songwriting, but then there are obviously times where something, the contribution veers enough into the category of co-written song. How do you guys navigate that? I mean, is that or does it just very natural? It's different over the years. I think there have been records and times when I would just come up with a track. Do the track have a melody? Sing it might have a line here or there, but know that I had somebody in the house that could get what where my heart was with it. Like there's a song, Wide Rivered Across. There's a few songs on that, on that universally united house of prayer record that I did that I love actually that song, Wide Rivered Across, that has been recorded. Leave on helm did a beautiful version, Diana

25:26Crawl did a great version. But I wrote that. I started that just thinking because our dear friend and hero, Amy Luharis, is sung on every one of my records. I just started singing something just imagining her voice on a song. This melody and this thing came out. Yeah. I put the track together and put down what I've got melody-wise. If there are any words at all, then I turned it over to the bass.

26:32I've got a wide, wide, real to cross. Well, and speaking of that record, the universal united house of prayer, I think of a song like Shelter Me. That's another one. That's a song where you take away that guitar lick and it's not the same song. That opening guitar rev is like just grabs you by the throat. It is as integral to the song as any other piece of that song is. Check it out.

27:37I hope it hangs in there as a song but yeah I think the guitar part I do love that that's another one at the time is just kind of like putting down tracks, putting in demos with guitar and coming up with melodies and guitar parts and then bringing Julie in. I think she's the one that put the words down to that. So yeah, it's that, you know, words and music. Which, you know, I can feel okay about that. There are so many buddy Miller songs that have that distinctive guitar sound and you know, I feel like there's, I feel like I could hear a track that you produced and know

28:42it was you, you know, if I heard the guitar part and because of that, I was pleasantly surprised with some things on the new record that are a little out of left field and one of them is the song Masterpiece in the Sand. A song credited to you and Julie and I'm listening to that and I thought, wow, if there was someone else singing this, I would not know that this was a buddy Miller record. I would say it was a Mike Reed record, you know, the piano is at the forefront and the chord structures and everything about it was a little bit like, oh wow, I wasn't expecting that. It just didn't seem like what I would have predicted and in a very in a in a good way.

29:53Alice's grand, put a claim on someone's lane, put all the works of our hands, our just masterpiece in the sand. That song, Julie had started, gosh, I don't remember when. It's gotta be, you know, 10, 15 years ago. She started, she's got like notebooks and no tons of notebooks, you know, two, three feet deep. I need to go through it, but that's a song that just that stuck with me. No, when I was on the road 17 years ago now, I had a heart attack on stage and we were in Baltimore

30:55fortunately. I was out with, it was called Three Girls and their Buddy. Yeah, I don't know how they came up with that name, but it was Emileu Harris, Sean Colvin, Patty Griffin and myself. Our first gig was in Baltimore the night before we came in early. We all went out to eat. We all ordered some black and fish and, you know, they never finished their, they dumped all their food on my plate and I eat it all. So that night about two, three in the morning, I had the worst pain in my chest and what I assumed was heartburn and I was soaking wet and sweating and I wrote it out. I just thought, because it's too late to go out looking for roll aids or tons or so. Right. So the next night on stage in the last song I'm singing, which was Why I'd Rivered Across, I had the same feeling in my chest and was covered in sweat and realized this isn't good. I didn't eat dinner tonight. So it turned out I was having a heart attack and our

32:01tour manager, Carolyn Rosenfeld, who works a ton with Sean, works with Patty right now. She said, you're going to the hospital. I was going to just lie down and ride it out and she said there's a close hospital and a good hospital and we went to Johns Hopkins and I had emergency triple bypass. There's a long way of getting to coming out of anesthesia and which is a word my wife points out to me. I don't know how to pronounce. It's I was my emotions or so raw. I could just hear two notes on a piano. Fortunately, I had my music with me. My laptop was there. You know, and as bad as it sounds, it was one of my saving graces there that I have that. I'd listen. I was so raw emotionally and so open that I just would tear up and weep at the sound

33:05of the simplest opening to a song that I'd heard a hundred times before. I don't know what it had to do with, but I just knew man, I want to hold onto this and I'd been playing every night or working on records in every spare minute that I had and maybe music had just drifted a little down the down the river, the emotional impact of it. So that song is one of the songs that after that whole experience had gone through this life changing surgery and really reconnection in certain ways to music. I just look at things eternal and want to at least acknowledge that on the record. And so that was a song of Julie's. I just needed a little finishing

34:06and a little editor in chief and work on the music. And that lyric, you know, and time keeps moving on till all we've known is gone and the greatest works of man are just a masterpiece in the sand, particularly poignant in light of what you just shared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go back to the early days of your career even before you were a recording artist. I've heard different things about how you started out and you can set the record straight, but my understanding is that you were based in New York at one point and that you were leading a country band that Jim Lauderdale may have been a part of. Sean Colman may have been a part of. I don't know how all of that worked, but I'd love to get a little bit of insight into what you were doing then and especially with a view towards somebody who really appreciates songs and songwriting. What playing in a cover band does for one's ability to pick a part of song,

35:14to analyze it, to learn it, to play it over and over, you got to, you know, you got to study the great songs to perform the great songs. So I'd love to hear about that kind of early part of your career and how that shaped your ear for good songs and good songwriting. Yeah. I went to high school in New Jersey, Central Jersey, which turns out it was a great place. I was, because you're kind of halfway between Philadelphia and New York City and thanks to some not intentional, but, not great parenting. They didn't care what I did. As a teenager, I could go spend time in Greenwich Village, just take a bus. There was a bus a few blocks from our house that went there, went to the city. A guy that I knew through a friend was the sound man at the filmore East. And I went to a ton of shows there and went and went and went to some great shows at

36:22gosh, what's it called in Brynmar, the main point. A great full club. I saw the dillards there, so I think Tim Hardin, so all sorts of people. And I just, like you saying, I soaked it all in radio, which was so important and so free back then was a gift. And everything. I just soaked it all in. Who knows why we're drawn to the music that we are, but you know, moral-hagged records at the same time coming out with the burrito brothers doing their version of it and the birds with the sweetheart of the rodeo and the band coming out. And I was very into the grateful dead from the first time they played in the East Coast. I must have seen, I don't know, 50 or 60 dead shows before 71. Well, just everywhere. And I got the whole, what they were doing with it, but the freedom in that, what they applied to that music. As a guitar player, it's just, it was the very beginnings of that dead community, you know,

37:30whatever it's called. But it was just the very, very germ of it that, you know, in the film more East, there was like a lobby outside the balcony where we hang out in between shows. And my friend would let me, one week, he let me record because I was still into recording too. And I had a little stereo Sony 2 track with a tabletop Dolby unit that just come out. And he let me record a week of the dead with, and it was the week. Our CEO is also playing pedal steel with the new riders of the purple sage. And they were doing two shows a night, which is insane if you think about it. I mean, two shows a night is work. He was doing four shows a night. And so I recorded this whole week and I'd study this stuff. And here, and I'd even study what they were doing in between, because the gaps in between the songs were as long as the songs sometime. And, you know, there was a lot of a lot you could gain roadmaps. Yeah. Listen to that. Listen to Merle Haggard's

38:36live albums that were out then too. And, and if folk music was great, there was a woman who, down the street for me, that taught me a little guitar. That's where I learned the Wildwood flower. And she sent me, said there's somebody else who teaches at the university, not teaches, but, you know, on one evening of the week, she'll be there with her guitar in Alexander Hall. And if you put $5 in her case, you can watch her. And I was probably 11, 12, maybe 12. And I would go there and, and she would, you know, know Carter Scratch and some great finger picking. She was a large seager at the time. She was married to Mike Seager, who I guess they lived nearby. And she was very kind to me. And it would come over the house occasionally and convinced my parents that the guitar that I was playing, which had a huge crack

39:40down the middle of it, when I was riding my bicycle and fell off it. Broke is still playable. She said he should have something better. So with that encouragement and with the, you know, incredible music on the radio and available all over the place, I think I was just somehow drawn to good stuff. She helped with that too. Yeah. Yeah. So take me to New York and your and your bond. Yeah. Sorry. That's great. I love the band in New York. It's always been about man, wherever the music is going to take me. I want to go. As soon as I was out of high school, or shortly after there was a, I saw an ad in the village voice as this band was looking for a bass player and played bass. But I thought how hard can it be? It only has four strings. So I think I borrowed a friend's bass and somehow auditioned and played with them. After a while,

40:48I saw that Country Music magazine had an article on Willie's picnic. I think Chet Flipo maybe wrote it. I'm not sure. Whoever wrote it, it got to me. And I went, this was probably 74 or 5. I said, that's where that's where I want to be. So I'll just go wherever the music was. I just, I thought that's where the music I like is being made. And I, you know, you romanticize everything. Right. But this was even greater than anything I'd imagined. So I think it was 76 or 75. I moved down to Austin. Didn't know a soul. And within a few days, I had a gig playing guitar for Ray Campy. Rockabilly Rebel. And the great, great, wonderful man. So I started doing that and then I, you know, needed a little money because I had a move. My wife and her son were moving down. I

41:54think had by that point. So I got in a band where Julie was the chick singer. That's where I met her. Well, and the other scene down there was, you know, eye opening too. I mean, I was, all the little stuff I was into. Gosh, who did I, Blacky Farrow was one of the first guys. He was, I loved his songwriting and I met him. And he had a great record collection. I asked him if I could come over with my reel to reel and record some stuff that I didn't have. Yeah. Like Dan Penn's Nobody's Fool record. He had that. I saw it when it came out and I'd missed out on buying it and could never find it again. Then in Austin, I didn't have any money for records or anything. So there was a community there. Yeah. There's always a community. Yeah. And so yeah, if Julie and I were playing in bands in Austin and we got booked to play the Lone Star Cafe in 79, I think.

42:55And we went up there. We drove up there with our little band to open for Delwem McClinton. Well, and who was the King of New York at that time and was outstanding. And we thought this is the scene. This is the next place we need to be. So I think it was on January 1 of 1980 in a snow storm. It was January 1 because I had a good New Year's Eve gig in Austin. All right. That would, and we piled everything in my van and we drove to New York to move there. I had a friend outside there that we stayed with for a few weeks and we settled into Union City because I thought, well, it's just too dangerous to have a van full of equipment in New York. And we got broken into two nights in a row in Union City. But actually the guitar I play, I don't know if you're familiar with this. The main one, it's this crazy Italian thing. Yeah. That was stolen when we were up there. That was one of the things that was stolen out of my van and I drew a picture of it

43:58with a Sharpie. Put it on, you know, just said reward. I didn't say how much. Right. I only paid 50 bucks for the thing. And somebody called me up, you know, we didn't know cell phones just a cotaphone and a phone. So I said, hey, man, I think I found your guitar under my truck. Oh my gosh. And sure, and sure enough, I got the guitar back. So I went Julie left that band. And that band, it was Larry Campbell. It was in that band. Our bass player Lincoln Schleifer, who's worked with, you know, the steely Dan guys, work with Leavon, work with a lot of people. He was a bass player. And somehow Carl Himmel, I'm sure you know, Carl Himmel is. Yeah. The legendary session drummer here in Nashville who somehow had burned some bridges, moved up to New York. And I mean, he'd worked from every, you know, all these Gary Stewart records and all Roy Day production, all kinds of stuff. And JJ Kale and Neo Young and all the stuff.

45:03He was our drummer. Well, from, from home, Louisiana. Yeah. And so it was a crazy band. And when Julie left, she had sort of an epiphany with the Lord and disappeared one day. I remember Ray Benson telling me, you got to have a girl singer. First word and show business is show. So he said, and he had two girl singers at that time. He had the great Chris O'Connell and Mary in price. So I thought, well, Sean was a friend from Austin and she was living in California. She came and heard our band. And even though she heard it, she came and joined it. Right. Amazing. So that was a story of that band. Yeah. You said, Chip Flippo a minute ago, which triggered something in my mind. I only met Chip Flippo once. I'm going to, we're going to go on a little journey here to get to the point of my question. But

46:07I only ever met Chip Flippo once. It was at the Bell Court Theatre in Nashville. I was seated next to him for the concert you did there with Solomon Burke. Wow. Really? When you did the Solomon Burke record. I live in LA, but I was in Nashville at that time for whatever reason. So I met Chip Flippo at that show. It was the only time I ever met him. Very, very nice, wonderful man based on that conversation. But I'm bringing up Solomon Burke for around about reason. Part of this is just because I think it will be fun to ask you about before I get to my real point. But I remember going to Americana Fest probably around 2005. And you and Solomon Burke were playing back to back. And Solomon Burke goes on.

47:11And I guess he probably had 45 minutes or an hour or whatever it was. And he was not stopping. And I thought it was fantastic. There were people in the audience who were getting really restless, who had come to see you. And there was there was like this kind of angst that was forming in the crowd that Solomon wouldn't wouldn't stop. But I saw you at the side of the stage. And the look on your face was like childlike delight. And then you did that record with Solomon Burke. And I'm like man, I feel like I witnessed the moment that Buddy Miller decided he wanted to make a record with Solomon Burke standing on the side of that stage watching, watching that, watching him just refuse to leave, which was, which was incredible. I love that. I love that you were there. And during that, yeah, it's supposed to been 45 minutes said. I think you're right. And his wife at

48:13the time that Jane was over there running the teleprompter for him. And over by the monitor board on stage right. And she'd go five minutes. You know, she put on that on there. Or you know, 10 minutes, five minutes. You're done. Get off. Get really get off. She keep printing that in there. Get off now. And he would not but no, he was going. There was something where I forget, well, club that was at the lighting was so weird. It was at the canary. It was at the canary. And I don't know why, but the lighting was like from underneath. And it was like spooky lighting. Yeah. And his organ player, I believe, was blind. It was like all over the place. And yeah, Solomon Burke, he's, you know, he's one of our heroes anyway. So it was later on. It was actually after that, that his friend and who worked at Shout Music, Sean Amist said, hey, would you be interested in

49:15doing a country record with Solomon? You want to meet with him? I was out in LA. I forget with who it must have been, Amy Lou. I don't know. But anyway, so I went over to his house. They picked me up and drove me to his house. It was covered in flower. You know, there are flowers everywhere. Amazing. I think I could be wrong. I think there were three thrones in the house when you walk in and two B3s. Well, and he explained to me, yeah, the flowers. No, I forgot floor. I'm into, you know, I have florists at florists because he's also, you know, he grew up. It's not a mortician, but it's something like that. I think he had his mortician's license. I think you're right. I think he was a minister and he said, I get him coming and going. And I think what he wanted really was a duet with Dolly Parton. And that's why he wanted to do a country record. But besides his deep love and appreciation for country music. But

50:20I said, well, you know, the way you could probably get a Dolly Parton on your record is to do one of her songs and turned out that we did that. And she came over and she said, man, my husband used to take me over to the east side to hear Solomon Burke. Well, when she was, you know, just new in Nashville. Yeah. So take my hand and run with me out of the past. Called yesterday. Walk with me into the future up tomorrow. Yesterday must be forgot. No looking back. No matter what. There's nothing there but memories. That ring. So yesterday. It's gone. But tomorrow is forever.

51:37This is a record that you want to record every minute that he's in the house. Right. Not just every take. Right. But everything he says, wow, is priceless. I mean, his ordering the Chinese food for lunch. Right. That was, I could put that out on a record and it would be better than half the stuff I've released. Now, he, that was just, it was beautiful. I learned so much. I knew so little before he got here. And I got to find those tapes and listen to some of it. But, you know, I knew you get bands. I'm used to making records. Certainly at that point. And still I have that mentality of doing things with out much of a budget. Yeah. And, you know, the bands here, when it's time for lunch wrap, go, you know, go your own way. I just had a call in this little room. I had a coffee maker and maybe a microwave. I didn't have snacks out. I don't know. I didn't even have, I did not have a microwave. I did not have a coffee maker. He showed up on day two with,

52:42with a coffee maker and a microwave. And on day one, when he showed up, you know, I was told to get a ramp and how big of a ramp to get. Yeah. Because we have pretty steep. You probably don't remember, but there's steps going into the house. Yeah. And they're kind of steep. So I went to, and got, and got a ramp. And we're all waiting. It's, you know, a couple hours after the time he's supposed to arrive day one, the bands all is sitting on the porch and waiting and up to pulls a link, link and continental. And the, the, the passengers side window rolls down, a large figure in a cowboy hat. This looks out shakes his head, no, the window rolls up, the car drives off. And I get a call about a minute later that says, get a bigger ramp. But, and, and it was a good thing we did. Yeah. But it was what a joy to have that voice in the house. He didn't learn the songs. I was, I had warning. I talked to Joe Henry, right? Because about,

53:48about that, but I don't care. Right. You know, he said, and he would always, he would call me, sorry to go on about this, but I love this record so much. I pitched a lot of songs to him. And he would want to call me and talk about the meanings of every line in every song. Wow. He, I mean, he'd end up changing some of them just on the fly because it's Solomon Burke. But, and we, when we stayed in touch and actually he wanted to do another record. We talk about it a lot. And then, of course, he passed away. He would send, Harry and David fruit to us a few times a year, you know, the subscription thing. Right. But it was not just addressed to Buddy and Julie. He knew the names of all of our, like, seven cats and dogs at the time. So it was addressed to all of us. It's so thoughtful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I will say I saw him do the exact same refuse to get off the stage thing to Aritha Franklin at the Hollywood Bowl. So, whoa. So yeah. He, he, he would just do, I mean,

54:52they literally pulled, they, they cut the power after a point. I thought it was fabulous. But I wanted to ask you about the song. That's how I got to Memphis, which, of course, is a Tom T. Hall song. And we were fortunate enough to have the final interview with, with Tom T on this show. But that's a song that you selected for the Solomon project. It's also a song that was on, what people think of as, as your first record, your love and otherwise. And I had referenced earlier that there was an earlier first record, which was called Buddy Miller and the Sacred Cals Man on the Moon was the title of that, which I think was not even released in the US. I believe that was a European. I think it was Netherlands. And I'm not sure, you know, more than a hundred copies made it out there. Well, I've got one of them. Oh, but thank you. You might have one more than I do. But you, you, you, you had that's how I got to Memphis on that record too,

55:55which tells me that this Tom T. Hall song is a very special song that's obviously close to your heart. And I'd like to hear what it is about that song that has become, you know, I identify that song as much with you now as I do. Tom T. Hall, you've kind of made it a part of your own artistry. Talk about what it is that drew you to that particular song. You know, and what is it, man? I wish I understood that more that makes certain things resonate in us. And where we're drawn to certain music and other things were not. But that song, it did it for me the very first time I heard it when it came out. Yeah. Whenever that was, early 70s maybe, it was, yeah, I started, I learned it and sang it every single gig I did. And when I was playing the dance hall circuit in Texas, it got to the point where, you know, people, it was a song that was, yeah, a signature song that I

56:59would do then. I'd get first, you know, people would bring me beers, five or six beers, and then they would wheel up cases of fear and put them on the stage. And it just, but that, it wasn't about that, that song just touches people. It's about that, that it's more than just following your heart in a woman. It's about that yearning inside and Tom Teague, man, he nailed it. And he, I loved him. I'm so glad you got that interview. I got to hear that. Because, yeah, he would, I got a letter. I just found it recently from him when, because I tried to get a lot of people to record that song when they'd come to my house to make a record, because I think everybody should sing it or hear it at least. And Solomon, we recorded it in this room I'm sitting in when it was like a little kitchenette. We just all circled around Solomon and set up and recorded it live. But, yeah, that, I mean, Solomon would open his set with that for a long time, just him and an acoustic guitar player and then they'd bring the band in half way.

58:03And Tom Teague wrote me and how much he liked that version. And Solomon, he trips from the melody and he personalizes it and makes it his own, but it doesn't matter. It's just, it's got the essence of that song. And Tom Teague would, even, we'd email, you know, later on and he'd say, I heard another version of our song lately. And that meant like that just knocked me out. He's a warm, good-hearted, unbelievable genius of a writer. I want to talk about your second record or third depending on how we're counting these,

59:21which was Poison Love. And you've got a cover of Roosevelt, Jameson's, that's how strong my love is, which was, I guess most people would say an Otis writing record. I'm guessing you would say it's an OV-right record. But it's a classic soul song. And that same album has, don't tell me, which is the song that you and Julie wrote. And what's remarkable to me about that is that those two songs sound like they belong together, even though one comes from this sort of deep southern soul tradition. And the other one is coming from this country artist, but the way that you kind of weave that southern soul sensibility into kind of your version of country and Americana music makes them sound like companion pieces. And they sound like, they sound like they could have been written by the same person, they sound like they fit, they sound like they just sit naturally very well together on that record.

1:00:28Till my heart stop beating, Till my mind I'd like to think, throw a stone in the ocean, Till that stone I'd like to think, Till the world to stop turning around, Till the sky I'd like to be so blue, Till the rain to stop falling down like tears. Don't tell me to stop loving you. Which brings me to a question of quality control. I talked about you as a curator and you are great at

1:01:35finding these songs to cover that are not always obvious covers. Sometimes they're kind of deep cuts, but you put your spin on them in a way that makes them buddy miller songs for that project. But at the same time they've got to sit next to your original material, which means your original material has got to be, you can't slack. I mean if you're going to pick great classic songs that are worthy of being covered and interpreting to sit next to your originals, your originals have to maintain the same level. And I've always been struck by your ability to do that, to do cover songs and to do originals that when placed next to each other all sound like you. They all sound like your personality. And I guess really my question there is about the standards that you set for yourself as a creative person to know that you're not just putting out a record

1:02:38that's got all original songs and there's no template or nothing that anyone else could reference. You're putting stuff out there where you're adding to something and elevating something in a way to make it your own. But it also means you got to bring your A-game for your original stuff that's going to sit right next to it. Talk a bit about that balance. Yeah, I had a list in a notebook of all these cover songs that I wanted to do if I ever got to make a record before anybody asked me to and I got that opportunity. That's how strong my love is was on that list as were so many songs and because I love writers and I love just I just love songs. So yeah, it felt like and it felt like it could take a pedal steal. That's my base point. Yeah, because I certainly can't do it Otis Redding or anybody else did on that song.

1:03:48Yeah, I have to do it what I do with it and that would be maybe taking it one step into country. But it's all the same, isn't it? I mean, it's all music and it all has the same roots and you know everybody whether they even realize it or not loves that. I mean Solomon Burke's love of country music and so many R&B singers you know better than me that they're deep love and respect of country music. It's the song and it's about the heart. And so yeah, don't tell me I heard that in that song that was an unfinished Julie it actually literally thrown the cassette in the trash and I was just wondering what it was on it and and dug it out and heard a half finished version of that and you know it's a great song and it feels like that could have been cut by a Percy sledge or something. It was cut by

1:04:55Leon Walmeck which is just as good in my book. She's but yeah, it's that common thread that it's just music you know that touches you. Well, by the same token, you are covering songs and putting your own artistic spin on certain songs but then that something you may not have imagined at one point would ever happen something that has happened to you. You mentioned Leanne Walmeck cut that song. You've also had songs like my love will follow you was covered by Brooks and Don and Derek's Bentley did a version of it. You had a hole in my head that you're at with Jim Latter-Dale that the Dixie Chicks recorded.

1:06:06You're gonna take me for the Wild Goose Chicks. You're gonna take me for the Wild Goose Chicks. You better find somebody to take my place. It has to be a bit of a trip to hear other artists interpret your music as someone who interprets other artists music. Yeah and that was something that was never we never like went after getting cuts. That was a strange, a put great thing that just happened when my first record came out. I did a little showcase. You know it was high tone. I forget what the budget was. You know it was like $8,000 something like that or $10,000. I doubt it was that much but I was just thrilled to be able to make a record and you know and ask my heroes because that's what it's all about for me getting a Dan Penn is on my first record. Right.

1:07:10Because I met him. He came over looking at a two-inch tape machine I had for sale in the Penny Saver and it wasn't working out with the RF here in Nashville and Amy Liu I'd met I don't think I was playing guitar for her yet at that point. I met with her when I was playing with Jim Lauderdale in Europe and Lucinda I knew from LA days. Yeah. It was just an opportunity to get people that I love and respect and make a record more meaningful to me. Yeah. Because I've got you know think of every record could be the last you never know. And so and of course Julie I think is on that thing too. And of course Jim Lauderdale. Yeah actually high tone heard Julie singing on that song hole in my head of mine and Jim and and and Larry Sloven at high tone record said you know I like her singing she sounds tough. I think she'd want to make a record

1:08:16and that he offered her a record deal she had a record deal in the CCM Christian world but they didn't really get her songs or her singing. As a matter of fact they it wasn't they didn't get it they didn't like her singing. Right. And I think the songs were good it's same kind of song she's writing now and kept writing. Yeah. But I don't know why I remember this but when I was I went to school at Belmont University in Nashville and I had a roommate I think we were probably sophomores in college and this would have been 95-ish but we were eating it we saw as go to sunset grill late at night because they had cheap food and yeah after after 10 after 10 the voodoo pasta. Oh man I forgot about the voodoo pasta. Ooh I wish I could have some of that right now. But I we my roommate and I were sitting in sunset grill one night at like midnight and

1:09:21you and Julie I didn't know who you guys were at the time but you and Julie were there with Victoria Williams and my roommate who like was way more familiar with the CCM world he was like dude that's Julie Miller over there and I was like oh you know who's Julie he's like she's a singer she's a great great singer and and that's Victoria Williams you know this in there and now that I look back I'm like oh and yeah that was buddy obviously too you know with with Julie but I and Lucinda was there a lot too. Oh yeah yeah but that was when I first heard of Julie Miller you know as a CCM artist I remember when it back to our apartment and my roommate was playing me a cassette of like maybe broken things or one of those you know early songs I can't remember but that was my that was my whole introduction to your to your world which I just happened to to remember and also now you've got me thinking about that voodoo pasta.

1:10:24I want to talk about the song does my ring burn your finger which is on your cruel moon record from 1999 I was like this is a really interesting song structure because in a way the lick is almost kind of the chorus and you could sort of argue that the song is like verse verse bridge verse that it doesn't really have a traditional chorus and that that guitar lick kind of serves as the chorus and to me is the to me the guitar lick is like the star of the of the song. When I gave you my heart it was not what you wanted now the wall say your name and the pictures are haunted

1:11:28does my ring burn your finger did my love with you down was a promise too much to keep a ring I remember it was when I keep the cry but it's such an unusual structure in that normal you would have like verse verse big chorus verse big chorus bridge you know but really it's that it's that hook rather than the big chorus and I'd like to hear a bit about how that song came together because I think it's just such a great tune. I love that I'd never we never think about that stuff. We are so disconnected from

1:12:28the songwriting process in here in Nashville and we never got we got offered a I think after my first record a publishing deal you know where for an advance of money which we were broke man we literally had filed bankruptcy in California when we moved to Nashville just not that long before we only moved here because houses were so cheap. Julie was at the end of her CCM deal we figured there's a way we can warm our way into an inexpensive house and but anyway but you know Julie said I don't want to sign a publishing I don't want to write song half to write songs have to turn in whatever it is 10 songs 12 songs I don't care what it is I can yeah yeah I write a lot of songs but I don't want money to be connected to that and I don't want to have to do that so we have no idea what you know makes a song and we just sit around and played and I love that

1:13:32that it feels like that too yeah that guitar guitar lick is kind of a become a star to me too the guitar parts are I try to get my licks in because I do still love playing yeah and even in something like that that you wouldn't think that the grateful dead can warm its way into it does in my mind I think there is a you can go out on a dark night or a long limb with something like that in the middle of that song and just take it to the moon which a lot of people are these days but you know that's always kind of been in the back of my head yeah guitar playing yeah yeah yeah on the new record there's a song called loser celebration you and you and Julie wrote and it's got this slinky distorted kind of vibe you know speaking of great licks

1:14:37yeah You know, the production of that song could have been approached in multiple ways. I can imagine that song being interpreted, you know, a number of different directions. And I'm wondering if you are someone who sees songwriting and production as distinct processes, in other words, you and Julie may be finished a song and the song is done and then you go,

1:15:40oh, let's see what we could do with this. Or are you kind of hearing as a song is being birthed? Are you kind of hearing arrangement, hearing guitar parts, hearing a vibe in your head during the actual creation process? I'm hearing a sound that's not there. A lot. I'm always hearing a sound that's not there that I have to sort of make. That song though, I love that you did that guitar part. I am so happy to tell you was completely Julie. And I have this, the demo of her, when she came up with that, I almost stuck it on the record of her going, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, just slowly and I'm me messing it up over and over again, because she is funky. That is her, the sound is me. We record in what's now the kitchen that room you were in and it's things sound small and clean and that was not a small and clean song in my mind.

1:16:44So there's some construction work that has to be done. But that's the fun part too. I love every part of the record making process. Yeah, I mean, even songs like gasoline and matches, you know, you come up with these guitar, where these guitar licks are so integral to the delivery of the song. That was a fun one. I knew that song was great, but man, that took some chasing. I think we recorded it three different times and it always just sounded too stock like a rock song with the drummer playing on the high hat and everything and I just got frustrated after the third time with three, you know, the third different sets of players in the house about this is not working. Take the drums apart, lay them on their sides on the floor, sit on the floor and use some fuzzy mallets and just put some towels on them and just bang them instead of playing drums. And fortunately, I had a drummer with a really great attitude and didn't take offense

1:17:48at that. I think that was my dear friend Brian Owings and he just had always has a big smile on his face and that unlocked that song. So you never know what's going to do it. Usually, I kind of know what I want and it gets there, but that was a tough one.

1:18:49Yeah, I just apropos of nothing other than we're talking about guitar licks. Nothing can stop my love in you. The guitar solo, you know, I know that's a cover song, but the guitar solo, the sort of like semi-chicken pick-in kind of like vibe. I mean, that's another just buddy Miller greatest hits moment for me is that I can put that guitar solo on repeat and just listen to the thing to the solo. Well, that I don't even remember the guitar solo, but I sure remember that song.

1:19:56It was on my list of cover songs if I get to make a record. I don't remember if that was on my first or second record, but it was on that list. Roger Miller record was a trip to the country or trip in the country that he made in the middle of his career after all the big hits. He revisited his early songs that he wrote for like Ray Price and George Jones and everybody else and with Buddy Emmons on the steel. I mean, the reason I was so drawn to that record, that Roger Miller record and so many people are the steel playing. It's like it's one of in the steel players canon in the record collection. You might find that record if they could find it. So yeah, that song and that whole record of Roger Miller's. Well, I've started this whole little buddy Miller guitar lick fanboy section of our conversation with Does My Ring Burn Your Finger? And I've always wanted to ask you about Charlie Pride.

1:20:56Does My Ring hurt your finger? Was that coincidence or was that a nod? No, it was coincidence. As a matter of fact, it was one of those probably and it's not the only time when after the fact I went, oh crap. That's right. But fortunately not everybody else did that when it came out. Another one that Lee Ann Womack ripped up and completely unexpected. Well every cover we've had is unexpected. Hello, and for that one, it was the year old brother. A brother were out there. We were out with Emileu on that first down from the mountain tour. But Lee Ann recorded, don't tell me. And then she recorded. She had this huge hit with I Hope You Dance. And she, which was huge at the time, I think it was the country musical awards were going on. And she had asked Julie and I to come on and sing harmony with her back up for her and

1:22:02do Does My Ring Burn Your Finger. I'm sure they didn't want her doing that song. I'm sure they wanted her to do I Hope You Dance. But she is single-minded and love her. And yeah, we went on there and did that with her and she tore it up. Right. Right. Another song on the new record that I want to ask you about, which is not a song you wrote, but the song to The Wheels Come Off, which was written by Ash I got a text message from Ashley who I knew when I was working on the Nashville TV show. We recorded some of her songs and I just thought the world of her. Anyway, great singer, great songwriter. And yeah, just out of the blue and this was probably three years ago.

1:23:05I can look and see I still have the text. She just sent this song, we just wrote a song inspired by you and Julie's love and I played it for Julie. I was just, you know, happened to be sitting by her. We listened and we both, you know, teared up. It was very, it was moving and it was very, it's different than the version I did. It was very sweet and softer and acoustic. And I hope I didn't ruin it when Ashley and Elizabeth came over to sing on it because those are the two I know the best. Yeah. They said, huh. Well, that's, yeah, that's it. You know, it's a different kind of as a tougher love. Yeah. Yeah. Gonna shine a light. Gonna hold your hand.

1:24:08Let's get out of line. While we still can, everything we have, everything we lost, gonna write it out till the wheels come off. But they dug it and yeah, that was really, really moving to get that in the text. Yeah. And so held onto that. Well, this could kind of fit into whatever the heck kind of record I was making, which I thought was, you know, different than the way it turned out. Well, not only are Ashley and Elizabeth cook on the record, but Lee and Wilmak appears on the song, stop me, which we've mentioned her a couple times as someone who's covered your songs. Sean Colvin appears on the record, Jim Waterdale, the war and treaty, Emilio Harris, Dan Penn. This is kind of like, you know, buddy, buddy gets together with his friends and makes music for the love of making music, which it's just got this kind of joyful spirit about it.

1:25:21But then at the same time, there is a thread that runs through the record. And I think maybe the song, you never really get over it, which is one that Sean Colvin appears on. Scott this lyric, God won't always hold back the rain. He just makes your heart bigger to hold all the pain and that might be the most hopeful line of the song. There's a thread of sadness, even amidst the joy of the music making. There's a thread of grief. There's a thread of loss that I hear through this record. And I wonder how much of that is having been an artist for decades and being willing to, at some point in your career go, I'm going to take this to another level of depth and honesty that maybe I wouldn't have in my younger years. Yeah, and as a song that was started by Julie a long time ago and never finished just was it, you know, about a half song.

1:26:30And I just felt like it needed to be finished. She lost her brother. Gosh, was this 2001 or two? We were struck by lightning in Texas where they lived in China, spring, Texas when he was coming in, where there's a fast moving storm coming in, but he's struck by lightning in the same place that he'd been in a crippling motorcycle accident years before. And it was just tragic and hard to bear. And I think Julie was thinking about that when she started that song and about our dear friend Regina McCurry, whose son was murdered years and years and years ago when we think about her and her loss. And yeah, it's lost. And that's just, I think that may be my favorite song on the record. It's every time I sing it, it's raw.

1:27:31Yeah. It replicates, I'm always wearing this heartache. I pull back the world's black, you're something I can't shake. I'm sorry if I've been said for too long. Here's come down when I ought to be strong and they will for the rest of my life. Sometimes you'll never really get over it. You'll never really get over it. You'll never really get over it. Whatever they say.

1:28:31I want to close this out with one last question about Julie. And we started this conversation with me saying that you strike me as a collaborator and a curator. And I have in the course of this conversation honed that curation observation even more with you talking about digging cassette tapes out of the trash and talking about stacks and stacks of journals. I mean, it literally sounds like you are Julie's curator that there are things that maybe would have been lost to time. Had you not kind of served as her archivist and cheerleader to say, don't throw away this tape. This is a great idea. Or, you know, don't set aside that journal. You know, in what ways do you think of yourself as her champion or archivist or even the person who's encouraging or long saying, no, don't discard this.

1:29:32This is great. Well, first and foremost, I love her. We've been married coming up on 45 years in a few weeks and we're hanging out for years before that. But it's been tough a lot and she's been sick a lot. But I think she's just a remarkable songwriter from the very first songs I heard of hers and it made me feel like, yeah, I just want to hang around that. And she wrote so much for, you know, a lot of it when it comes to you and you're in the middle of it and it's flowing through you. The song songs, it just, you don't want to turn it off. It's like a spiket that's open and you can just receive it and it just kind of like pouring out. Well, she was in that way, which I've never had that. But man, there was like a couple of years of that is on and off over the years.

1:30:33There's been a lot of it. But I mean, there was like a year, year and a half, which is constant and there are notebooks. I feel responsible to yet dig through that stuff and mine it and find the things that could be songs. And I have so many an overwhelming amount of voice memos on my phone. I'm glad that they transfer from phone to phone when they upgrade. And, you know, just in whatever recording on before that and just tons of cassette tapes I've transferred over. Yeah, I do it because she's great. Yeah. And yeah, she's, and I love working with her. I don't know if we will be recording again or not, but you know, I hope so. Yeah. Well, I hope so too. And in the meantime, I want to encourage our listeners to go check out the new self titled record, Buddy Miller. It is as great as you would hope it is. And I really enjoyed digging into this new project. And it's truly as a fan.

1:31:35It's honored to have you on the show and to pick your brain a little bit about your creative process. It's been a lot of fun. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me and it's honored to hang with you. Sometimes we need to talk about everything you've done that I love to ask you about. Absolutely. Thanks for listening to make sure you don't miss an episode of Songcraft. Please take a moment right now to subscribe to the show via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can keep up with us on Instagram at Songcraft Conversations or Facebook at Songcraft Show. To join our team and help support our content, become a Songcraft Patron at patreon.com. Visit datroin.com slash songcraft show. And you can always find us at songcraftshow.com.