Ep.6 – Spoilers & Gainline monsters with Harry Jones

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Hello, 89 Rugby for your Rugby Week.

And it is a very special guest.

Into the car first chair this week from the leka rugby pod.

And formally of this very parish, the original eight half of the combo.

Welcome back, Harry Jones.

Hello, my friends. How are you going?

It's it's it's weird.

It's weird to come home to something you are sort of part of creating.

But now it's it's grown up.

It's different.

Everything gets different.

But mate, it's really nice to see you and chat about whatever you're going to chat about.

What's interesting too is we always have a little bit of a plan.

Now I'm just going on saying do with me as you will.

Yeah, it's it's not too different to what we to what we used to do.

It's about the same amount of planning.

So so a very, very quick recap of how this is all working in 2026.

This is the next evolution of what you know and love from the 89 combo.

This guy's departure means the combo is made way for a whole host of guests host each week.

Rather than any permanent coast.

And that has yes.

Left the door open for the return of Harry Jones.

So thank you, mate.

I'm actually genuinely glad we could make we could we could do this so soon.

I wasn't sure where that might happen.

So it's pretty cool to be doing it so quickly.

That's very cool.

I've been watching obviously with a great interest about what you're doing on

sub-stack and aggregating rugby knowledge and writing.

And that's something that I think is in, you know, surely needed, missed in Australia.

And for sure, I think with the demise, if it is the demise, you know, so the roar.

This has joined vacuum, you know, into which something must go.

And good was on you for jumping in.

Yeah, that's been a lot of fun.

Jeff, Jeff Parkstein, we've made ourselves busier.

There's no doubt about that, but it's been it's been good,

it's been really, really good.

So and we'll touch on that later on, I'm sure.

Straight into his cheese, mate.

It's still going in 2026.

What are you cheering for around the world this weekend?

Hey, I'll cheer, I'll cheer the value of competence, extreme competence.

You know, we look a lot about goats and talent and speed and aerials and strength.

But there's something to be said for a guy like Kyle Stain.

Even his name, it suggests sort of just this competent workman-like guy.

And for a while now, and we had Franco Smith on that guy robot, and he talked about how Kyle

was the best at regaining kicks.

And it's right in an era when that becomes super important.

Sort of big, but not as quick as some of the other wings, slithery-ish, but not as evasive.

It's just sort of the idea of really getting good at something.

And it just all came together against a French.

When it just seemed like he could do no wrong.

He got a cut on his leg.

His dad told me it wasn't actually an injury near the end.

So he'll be back for Ireland.

But it just idea that he was winning the aerials, winning the scraps, being the crumbs man.

You know, and rugby now with all these ricochets and pinball rugby.

You've got to have people who are quick, like Jorgensen type people who can pick up the scraps,

Louis Bielberg.

There's not an coincidence that Louis Bielbirae and Chesslyn Colby, these guys are doing well.

The little guys who have it, but Kyle's a big guy who is an opportunist.

And I think that's so brilliant to watch his rise.

And I do, you don't have to be the quickest.

You don't really have to have all these KPI's and gym, personal record lifting.

Be really good at the frenetic cable.

Yeah, yeah.

And the interesting part there is that Scotland with,

with Dusty Graham and Castane have sort of gone for the, the smaller

winger and you know, a guy like,

doing fundamental, who was just a beast out on the edge.

Suddenly you're sort of wondering how, how he fits in to the way

he's got a little playing right at this very moment.

So yeah, that's a good shout.

I don't mind that.

I've got a bit, I've got a bit broader than that.

And I'm just sculling the, sculling the brave.

They, they, I mean, just wow.

That performance on the weekend was just absolutely magnificent.

I'm so, so glad I watched that game live.

It adds it happened.

I was not long home from campus day because the,

the lateness at which the Brumbi's Reds game finished after a 90 minute

lightning delay to kick off.

Basically meant that I was still wide by the time of the home of the stadium.

So I just rolled straight into, into Scotland France.

And I was so glad I did.

It was just an incredible game.

The, the scoreline absolutely flat as France.

They were just, they were just thumped in that game.

And now there was some junk, junk time tries at the end.

I mean, yeah.

Comprehensive for the final 20 minutes.

You, you knew it was only one way.

It was record setting.

It was fantastic.

How much of your DNA is Scottish?

So how much of this was ancient stirings of pride?

Yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's clans.

There's clans in the, in the northern highlands,

I believe.

This is the way it's been told to me over the time.

So yes, yes, there was, there was a little bit of pride there.

There were moments I shouted during that match.

I mean, there were fist pong beans.

It was that kind of thing to watch.

You know, it was exhilarating.

That's what it was.

It really was.

There were, there were a few things.

There was a try.

That's where my cult's disgusting.

Where there was a beautiful.

I was thought of you like the, the first phase setup tried.

That is beautiful.

It was high top.

And then fed down a George Turner for all the world.

Look like a, you know, the classic hooker storming

diagonally towards the poles.

It's going to set up a series around the corner,

bash by corn by by the other forwards going right, right, right, right.

Instead, it's a flip over the head.

The ball goes to Kyle's ear.

He just about catches it.

Yeah, he just sort of caught it there.

Just cheers to the corner flag.

And it was such a thing of beauty.

I don't think it would work every time,

but every now and then you pull that out of the hat.

Our first phase, first phase trial like that is hard to defend.

60% of the time it works every time.

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Six nations round for my what weekend of rugby it was.

Obviously headlined by Scotland's dominant win over France 50 to 40.

But kicked off by Ireland beating Wales.

I think that was pretty well expected.

And then as if Scotland dominating France wasn't enough,

Italy 23 beat England 18.

Let's want to why don't we start.

Why don't we start there with that?

They were just they were just comfortable over England.

Italy weren't they it was a performance for the ages.

And I think the recognition and the immediate respect

that has has grown in Italy this year,

this torn particularly has is is is very, very real.

Like that's it's no it doesn't know it doesn't any longer feel like

you know the five nations plus Italy now.

It's generally six six teams in this tournament now.

So many angles to put here.

So I'll sort of take a few on.

Before the tournament started,

Rassia Rasmus put it came out and said,

watch Italy and people act like you're trolling.

What are you trying to do?

Just throw in stuff in there.

But I think you knew something first of all.

Franco Smith when he's on our part,

he talked about building national play of interest when he was there.

So how long it took to get there is is over is is is is underestimated.

And building that and he said,

Franco said that he expects Italy to have one of the higher cap counts as a whole in 2027,

but the highest in 2031 because of the things put in place.

So structures are real.

The reflection I'll bring for the Aussie audience is,

Dave Renning just became the all black coach.

In some big part, he was fired as a well of coach because of lost to Italy.

When you look at the team sheet of Italy now,

it doesn't look like you thought that team sheet looked like then.

I mean, those are the same kind of knownies.

Brex, Beloncello, these guys were very young.

And it looks in retrospect like, you know, Dave,

that wasn't that unusual on a five test tour that you might drop one to Italy.

Yeah, it's not.

It's not fluky anymore.

And they've lost to Italy again since then.

So as we all said at the time, you know,

maybe that was an overreaction and it absolutely was.

But, you know, that's definitely another conversation for another day.

You know, it's a very smart team too.

And I was thinking about it when you look at some of the,

we almost think they're doing lots of dashing tries and,

and extremely speedy work.

It's not really, it's not scoring that many tries.

They're being very clever with the ball.

They're playing in the right areas.

They're doing, they're avoiding things that Italian teams used to do,

which is, you know, not exiting properly,

not kicking in the proper places.

They're making their goals.

I thought, so I pulled out a quote for you from one of my favorite

Roman court machines, Cicero.

And what he's, because he's a stoic and I'm a stoic,

he said, it is not by muscle, speed, or physical dexterity

that great things are achieved,

but by reflection, force of character.

And, and I think that's something to that.

This Italian team, the way they're winning is gritty.

And they aren't tackling themselves into a coma.

I'll give you an example of the guy that I think is, you know,

is maybe making Sergio Parisi less spoken of as the only great Italian player.

So Lorenzo Cannoni, he's played 36 minutes, 64 tackles at 92% completion, right?

Yeah.

12 of those dominant three of them turn out,

hey, but he also carries 37 carries, gets over the game line,

62% of the time, he evades tackles,

he's got the most post contact meters in his team,

and he hits rocks.

I mean, that's some machine and that's the kind of player that I don't think,

I don't know that much about him.

This tournament is making me watch Lorenzo Cannoni.

Yeah, and it's been interesting to pick up on a few articles out of

out of England, particularly in a few podcasts here and there,

and the very mention of him execs the same sort of emotion.

It was like, yeah, remember not that long ago we used to talk about Parisi being,

you know, the greatest Italian player of all time and forever,

like he would just never be challenged.

Essentially.

All of a sudden, it's just like Sergio, who?

It's, yeah, that...

Oh, we know their names now.

I mean, like, we could...

I don't think three years ago,

when they, whatever they've been eating last was,

if you had challenged me, and I followed Rugby incessantly,

like a maniac, I couldn't have given you more than about five names,

you know, got a B.C.

A cool-up could be odd.

So, I mean, but now I know Fischetti, Ferrari,

and Nicotera.

I mean, mostly because the names are fun to say,

but I actually know them because they're good.

Yeah, very, very good.

You know, like, let me tell you guys,

had the absolute tournament to die for.

And conversational panel show down here this week is just,

like, yeah, right now, if you think of the inside centers

in the league that are dominating the world game,

can you think of anyone better than Leventurello right now?

And the conversation went, well...

He's top three.

Top three of four.

Maybe I could tell, maybe Dylende,

but he's absolutely in...

He's well-versed in top three, yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So, yeah, it's just, it's just magnificent.

So then, Scotland just absolutely dominated France.

And so, I've got a question for you about this.

Because France picked up the late bonus point

by Curtis, you've scored in the four tries.

And so, I know that you've never been a fan of bonus points.

And I wonder whether it is particularly the four-try bonus point

that you don't like.

Because France were disinterested in this game

up until the point where DuPont scored his try.

And all of a sudden, they realized,

oh, we could actually salvage something from this game.

And so, they lifted a gear,

and they were a little bit more physical.

They played more, they had more shape about them.

And then, they got the fourth try.

And I was like, okay, good.

Now, I work here, he's done.

And everything else after that was genuine joke.

But there was just that...

There was that little moment where they just were,

oh, hang on, there is actually something to play for in this game.

They, until that point that DuPont scored his try,

they were content with being beaten by 30 points.

So, I just, I wonder if that's the source of your bonus point,

dislike, because in that scenario,

I really remind myself why I still really dislike the four-try bonus point.

Yeah, so it's an Elijah issue.

I think sometimes it doesn't motivate

what I think it's supposed to.

I do see that sometimes that.

So, bonus pointism has a thing.

I know I get it.

But also, don't think on the integrity of the competition,

you should never have a team that lost more,

be a head of a team that won more ever under any circumstances.

But it does sometimes.

More in a long tournament.

When you have 16 rounds, I can see it happening.

I also sometimes it makes the leaders so far away

that it's impossible to catch them.

And so, I kind of like always jeopardy.

So, especially in the Six Nations with such a short tournament,

I like everything to just come down to wins and losses

and points differential or head to head,

depending on what you like.

I just like that.

But, you know, it's interesting now that Scotland saved the tournament,

basically.

So, now you have three teams that are three in one.

Yeah, well, he's the standings here.

Yeah, yeah.

And they're looking to understand.

I think every fan now knows

if France wins with the bonus point, they win.

If Scotland wins, but France doesn't get a bonus point,

then there's a chance there.

And then Ireland could win if France loses.

And other things happen.

So, you have literally the fight.

And you have England totally invested, right,

as a kingmaker or a spoiler.

Yes.

You have four teams, really value.

And then you have the drama of the wooden spoon as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it has the wooden spoon.

But, but there's a, the drama of good whales.

Probably saved.

I don't be huge if they would be Italy.

Because now it's these, you know, I think it's, it's all the,

there are times changed around each one.

Italy's sort of the middle of the table team now instead of the right next to whales.

And, and equally, they're playing this weekend for,

for, for a third win in the tournament, which they've never done before.

So, you know, there's so much, there's so much, I made the point pretty well on full-time.

Um, um, after, after Scotland France is that the problem I have now is that there are too many

must-watch games at stupid hours of the morning.

Yeah, it's true.

Yeah, it's just on, on Scotland, I will say this to, um, they've,

and a reflection is on all these top, the top three teams now.

They did it different ways.

Um, it's not like everyone followed the data.

And I think here is where I'm probably making, I'm sort of tweaking England a bit.

I think England's been too much invested, both under Boothwick of, here is an analytic.

We must follow this.

If you look at Scotland and the French, they were coming about in very different ways on the

kick length, on how they approach set pieces, and what they would do with it.

But, you know, Scotland carried a lot.

Even though they're not game-line monsters, what they do is they commit two

attackers a lot, and they, they're very good at the red zone.

That's Ireland too.

Ireland's just good.

When they get there, they'll score.

Um, also Scotland feeds off the, you know, the cover defense.

They have a great tackle.

This fence, the percentage.

But their set pieces are iffy.

I mean, Scotland sort of just survived some of the set pieces through the tournament.

Um, you know, and so it's interesting to see that there's so much,

what I would say this when we try to mess with the game and mess up.

I like a game where it's really different ways to win,

and at the end, at the point the end of tournaments, you have different styles.

I think that's brilliant.

I cannot wait to see England clash against France.

I cannot wait to see Ireland, Scotland,

because they're going to bring different stuff.

And that's, I think that is what's made this year's tournament so great this year,

because they have been different, different ways of winning.

And you're right.

England, England have been playing this, um, almost metronomic.

Yes, this, this is how this is how we're going to play.

We're going to kick and we're going to regain and you won't be able to beat us.

And for 12 games, that worked really, really well.

And they were like, aha, see, we told you.

And it's like boxes.

Yeah, tick, tick, tick, tick.

And they go, therefore we shall win.

So a run speed with them by far the quickest.

Oh, good my percentage.

Tick, game lines are now tick, set piece.

But where was the magic?

You know, I think all the teams that are top three now,

you see there's a some player that ballacune or there's

Bilberry or there's, uh, you know, huge zones.

It's just someone who's breaking it.

And then you just kept waiting for England to do something.

I don't know.

I think, you know, all we've got left now is England's incredible desire

to spoil the French party.

Yes, yes.

The funniest thing will be for England to have their best game in round five.

And, and we can't, we can't rule that out now.

This weekend.

So I suppose that's actually the perfect

secret.

It'll be speech time, man.

It'll be with you.

We have a few.

We banned our brothers, you know, you know, that stuff.

And it's going to be reminiscent of the old days.

And I looked across that rivalry, by the way.

And it's very interesting between, for instance, and England.

I mean, they've kind of been forever enemies, right?

In, in the world.

And I think here's what happened.

You'll be on the right be field.

Yes.

Right.

That the Capitão, Plangenettes, the Hundred Years War,

Napoleonic, the, and then all ended when they got to be friends in 1904.

And so what's replaced all that actual war is, is this.

And as a French writer, for loans said, England is our most dear enemy.

And I think that's just so great.

I mean, it's going to be so fun to see the English try to spoil their friends parade.

It really is.

It really is.

So that, that definitely does then bring us to, to the games this, this weekend.

And it starts with Ireland, Scotland in Dublin.

Wales, Italy is sort of like the, sort of like the, the interval, you know,

that's the, that's the, that's the, the go and go and fill the popcorn,

go and get, go and get another, another cup of tea.

And then, and then England, then France, France, England to finish.

Why?

I mean, it's a really trite question.

What are you expecting?

Can, can, can expect anything in the true sense of expectation?

Because if, if the tournament has given us anything this year,

it's to expect the unexpected.

So, yeah, what are we going to get?

Chip the game has resulted in more high scores, blowouts.

It's almost like if you start losing, you lose bigger now.

In some of the ways that it's adjudicated and encouraged,

not even just law changes, but you can have an emphasis.

And there's, as Bernard Jackman talks about, is there's more gray in the game now.

There's not just black and white.

You know, it's just not, you know, training now.

You see how the teams prepare for chaos and they're both for, you know,

for men's chaos, but also they know it's going to happen.

So, yeah, the, the score can really snowball on you,

but that, that plays both ways because then you can also catch up a lot.

And so, the rapidity of scoring is up.

So, only a fool would say they know what's going to happen,

but these are things that are real, which is Ireland owns the rivalry right now,

but it was Scotland's.

I think they won 11 straight.

That is the longest winning streak.

And if they go to 12, that will be the longest off either of them.

So, it does a win in a row.

So, 2017 was the last time that Scotland won.

On the other hand, the way that they're playing right now,

and given that Scotland's knocked off, you know,

arguably the two biggest scops, and this is the, to be the third,

you know, it's, I have a very difficult time seeing this match up

and predicting it.

So, Scotland is high carry, rock retainers, short tacklers,

a bit dodgy on the exit and leaky line out.

Ireland is a sort of safe line out, line out thieves,

the turnover kings and their dominant tacklers.

And so, that, that just, oh, I cannot wait for this match

just from a style contest.

And I also love it when Scotland becomes cocky.

It always reminds me of Sean Connery.

Sean Connery, he has the greatest quotes.

And what, his best quote from me was,

I've always hated that damn James Bond,

I like to kill him.

You know, like the guy that, the actual character that made him famous,

he wanted to live, but they're getting to be,

I just feel like, okay, this is very weird,

because there's, there's two Australians and two Africans

that are very instrumental right now on the Scottish team.

But I feel like the, what's our playing like, scots?

Like they're finally playing the way I want them to play

in a romantic sense, you know, hard and soul.

See only two palo too.

I don't know what part of him is tapping into that,

but it's absolute magic the way he's motivating.

I love Jack Dempsey chatting about what he said to them,

even post-match, he said,

he only told the boys we kept our promise.

Yeah, so I heard him say that.

And I think that's, oh, that's inspirational.

We, I think, you know, Kyle Stain talks a lot about how hard they're working for each other.

They're coming, a lot of them from Glasgow,

and a lot of them, and also this significant Edinburgh.

And I think there's a, you know,

Ben Garman talking about cohesion.

And look at the four guys, the two Aussies and two sephas,

you know, two palo too, Dempsey, Stain and Scuman.

It's 39 carries for two palo too.

What do you want to project?

Dempsey hard carries from Stanstone, 29 Stain and 37 for Scuman.

They're the most evasive.

They're one, two, four and five in meter,

meters post contact in the team.

They're all gain line monsters,

and they are involved in lots of tries.

So I think, you know, I hate people harping on this from an immigrant standpoint.

I just think it's interesting to have that much dynamism for those four guys.

Yeah, it completely grows you.

And as an Australian fan, we look at Cioni Tuplato

and we look at Jack Dempsey.

And Dempsey particularly, I can't help but think, you know,

I've thought this for a good number of years,

because he's been playing for Scotland for a good number of years now.

If you played even 80% as consistently as you do for Scotland now,

he would be a hundred test quality.

Oh, I just think he's just, he just would be.

There would just, there would never have been any floating out of the game

like he did toward the back end of his career in Australia.

To the point that when he left to go to Scotland,

it was just like,

see if I'm strange, right?

It just wasn't missed.

And the Tuplato is playing and he has become exactly

the kind of blockbusting inside center

that the Melbourne Rebels coaches 10 years ago thought he could be

and that he just didn't apply himself enough to become.

And so it's taken going to literally the opposite corner of the world

for him to become the player that he was identified to be as a 15-year-old email.

And such an acknowledged leader, you know,

like a lot of people have done well going to other countries,

but I don't know that many that went to another country

and became the captain and I absolutely acknowledged as the captain.

It's quite interesting, the social cues and all that stuff.

He's indeed himself to Scotland rugby so, so well,

that the vision of him getting up there to accept the cup

and he comes to to Princess Ed's is this is going to happen?

Are we going to do the hug thing?

And she's eating on it as well.

Like she knows that, you know, at some point in time,

they are going to have this hug but they should never ever have.

And they're just building up to it as it's wonderful to see.

It's just it's so good to see.

So on the other side of that match, though,

I actually think I put my I put my pounds on Ireland and I'll say this.

I think Ireland, you know,

but Scotland and Ireland both stumbled in round one.

And they've had to rebuild through the tournament.

And so I'm not saying this particular about Ireland because Scotland's

saying, but I think Ireland really had their arse handed to them.

And I think there was such a rude awakening that allowed Andy Ferrell

to show his best side, which I think is man management,

personnel, you know, sucker punch right in the face bleeding and he had to sort of go.

Hey, Josh Fenderfleer, I'm sitting you down from a world play of the year

and I'm putting too many heat on you.

I'm bringing Balakoon McClock ski in.

I'm bringing in the Ulster contingent.

Maybe even I'm sitting down,

Jemisin and I'm going to light a fire under you.

And every single thing he did came off.

And I was thinking there's such a level of trust because Josh Fenderfleer

having been sat down in favor of Tom Kyrie and the Lions.

He might have already had some sort of loss of confidence.

Then you have too many breathes on his neck, but I think Andy knew his man.

And he said step up.

So it's interesting to see how well they're cooking.

I think they might, Scotland might catch them on a post,

French beating high, just kind of wonder that Ireland just might have too much,

you know, in the tech to do this.

And I think they're friends.

The friendship of the Ireland camp is appealing to me too.

There's a lot of, they really came through a hard time and the line's thing was

grueling, you know, it sort of reminds me of, and I'm going to call it gates now,

the great Irish poet.

I think where man's glory most begins and ends and say,

you never used to run out quite like this when we did this every week.

So Yates said, think where man's glory most begins and ends and say,

my glory was, I had such friends.

When you hear Kaelin Doris, when you hear Josh Fenderfleer, when you're

Ty Burr and these guys, sometimes from Monster or Lister,

they really have a great love for each other.

So we're seeing a clash here between two Celtic nations.

And I would probably put, yeah, I put my fiber on Ireland.

I just think that that's particular matchup problems for Scotland.

And I think also they're a little bit more thinking.

I'm not bagging the French, but sometimes when the French get in trouble,

they just look a bit panicky to me still.

Just a little bit.

And they still, well, they still look like they just turned it up.

They're just going to, they're just going to, yeah, this game's done.

Okay, I'll do.

What do you, what do you think, what do you think about that?

Because the French at sometimes look imperious.

They looked imperious until that moment.

And then I don't know about, I mean, giving 50 points up,

is that even close to being, you know, you don't ever think of the old Blacks

or the Springboks going into a trophy potential match.

I mean, the trophy was sitting right there.

They could have grabbed it and taken it.

Yes.

They don't let a team, it's called 50.

What's, what's up with that?

No, no, no, no, you couldn't,

you don't see New Zealand and South Africa in the panel of the weekend

of the Rugby Championship with the trophy on display.

You don't see them this guy.

Okay, we're planning it next week.

You don't, you just don't see that.

You just, you just don't, because you never know.

You never know what's going to happen.

You never know.

You never know.

Just back on Ireland, I think that contest, if that, that one is so close

that if it was played in Edinburgh, you would probably pick Scotland

for all the same reasons that you've just outlined.

Agreed.

I, I, I think, I think I'm caught up in the, in the, in the romance of it.

Like, I really want Scotland to win the tournament this year.

They'd be a popular winner, they'd be the most popular winner.

They'd be hugely popular, hugely popular.

So, so I think I, I think I want to say Scotland win for that reason.

But I can't argue with the way Ireland have rebuilt themselves on the run.

McCloskey at 12 has been absolutely outstanding.

And there's that, there's that conversation earlier about, you know,

the best 12s in the game right now.

McCloskey's in that argument as well.

So, you know, our top three has just become a top four.

So there, there was a case to be made for Scotland winning this.

And it's based on this, which is Ireland is still messing around a bit of 10.

Finn Russell will absolutely walk into that game thinking,

I am the, I am Mr. 10.

I am the 10 on this field.

Yeah.

Ben, watch and learn, young Philat,

I'm going to tell you a few things.

It's tasty, not the nines.

The Jamison hits a part plane, but Ben or white.

But what was that?

He brought some so good space.

So, he was, he was, he was full peak nine.

He was, he was, he was chattering all day.

It was Antonio Pant.

He put him on the ground and was cleaning in his face.

That was the nine behavior.

Oh, good. He was riding these fights.

Wasn't he?

Yeah, it was, it was, it's, and what,

and what a lot of it did pick up on the social is a lot of people are just going,

oh, to lose too long is going to be interesting when they face off next.

So, I thought this, I thought the same thing.

I thought that really was probably something from too long to lose.

Probably.

Yeah.

Almost.

Ben White would have, I mean, I'm sure he would have been sort of spicy,

but I think it was a special layer of spice.

Yeah.

Which is funny, because King Horner think his players were there.

Like they have some sort of Finn Russell's played in Paris.

You know, the French are still the most interesting team I suppose for me to analyze,

because they, they have, they can look so good that it's scary.

I mean, scary, 2027 scary, like Australia or World Cup scary.

But then again, you have these sort of weird things.

And I'm reminded of Descartes.

So here's the Descartes, you end quote,

which you already know, Japan's donks are sweet, just sweet,

or cogito, ergo sum, which means I, I, I, I, I think,

or maybe I offload there for I am.

But he also said, he also said,

ergo cogito, ergo sum, I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am.

And I think there's some doubts creeping into the French story.

I think we keep hearing the same thing.

What do you hear when they start every broadcast from the Northern hemisphere starts?

Well, they have the best player in the world.

They're the best wing in the world.

They're the best, whatever, whatever.

And they keep saying best, best, best.

Show me, at some point, you've got to win the trophy.

At some point, as it needs to start looking like that.

Yeah, I agree with you, I agree with you.

I think, so I think we, I think we want Italy to get the third win.

I think we want them to reach a level they've never reached before.

So as much as, as much as it means that it means that,

it means that Wales go, go winless in that, and that is sad.

But I have been impressed with the way,

Wales have shown more fight in contests as the tournament has gone on.

So there's an argument that Wales have built up in this tournament as well.

And that's worth worth recognizing.

So how do England play the spoiler in Paris this weekend?

Yeah, so England has, in some ways, the perfect opportunity,

because they've been so formulaic that if there were a team to do something different,

and it would catch you by surprise, it would be England, right?

So there's been a bit of variation in the Irish system.

There's been a bit of game-shaped difference with Scotland.

For sure, Scotland's played different game plans.

And the French have been obviously a little volatile.

England's been the same, same, same, same.

So if there were a time when you'd select maybe a bit differently,

where you'd maybe take that access on the pullback to 10, 12,

and have a second line of attack,

perhaps the variety of kicking is most at fault.

And then whatever 5% of rabid frenzy that you need to get,

there's always that.

It seems to be that you need to get a lead.

The French are really good front runners.

It's just hard to reel them back in.

Once they get their tails up, their confidence players,

so make the game into little games.

Just say, first eight minutes, that's we're going to kill them for eight minutes.

And then do a long red set piece, we'll reload,

we'll get our breath back, water boys, whatever,

and then go again and again.

Fourth week has shown that he's able to get up for one big,

cataclysmic match, and how?

He might be playing for his job right now,

and that can really motivate players.

That's what I was going to say.

It feels like there is a lot on the line on this game.

There is a lot for England to lose this weekend.

Well, they're staring at one of the worst campaigns ever, I think.

Yeah, and that's going to be a motivator.

There's a lot of players' reputations have been

dented in this tournament, so individually,

they've got a lot to play for.

As a team, they'll feel like they owe Boothwick something

because the way they've played is putting back in the crosshairs

that 12 straight wins were supposed to have got him out of.

I actually think their kick chase has been off.

It just hasn't been as effective and devastating

as it was in November or over the last year.

So I think it could be as simple as that.

If they just chase their kicks better,

they don't have to necessarily have to retain more of them.

But if they just contest those more,

things will fall in their direction.

That's just the way the kick chase chaos works now.

But if they can just make that contest,

more of a contest, I think things start falling their way.

And so, yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

It's just going to be a fascinating weekend.

Those three games are just...

They are just absolutely brilliant.

And there is not enough hours for me in the early hours of Sunday morning.

They're definitely not all going to be watched live.

I know that, but it is just going to be a fascinating weekend.

It's been so cool to go through with all this with you again.

It's been so good to catch up, mate.

So thanks so much to your people,

particularly for finding some time for remembering where you came from.

In my giant conglomerate, the best chats are always where you actually

forgot that you were chatting and you just ended up having a conversation

with a friend.

That's how that felt like to me.

I do want to remind you, because you question whether this,

whether the earth is real.

Little Stormersman says that it's...

That shit is real.

If there is one thing that I've missed about it,

it's the ability to give you a stick every way you can

about how you're interested in the earth you get.

That's not real unless we're doing well.

Yes, that's how I do it.

Yes, that's true.

That's true.

Thanks so much, mate. It's been good.

All right, cheers, man.

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So good to have Harry Jones on 8.9 rugby for the first time in 2026.

It was always the plan that he would come back on as a guest at some point.

So we'll work up some more opportunities throughout the year.

It was just great to catch up.

It really was like old times.

On the Oz rugby scene this week,

Ben Smith from the Western Australia,

not that Ben Smith, and not that Ben Smith either.

He joins me on the next episode of the Oz rugby scene.

We will get around another weekend of Super Rugby Pacific.

And we'll dig into a fairly big cup of days for the Western Force as well.

So don't miss that.

8.9 rugby on YouTube, plus wherever you pod.

And thanks so much to Sean Baloney for the shout out on between

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Hope you've found it.

Jeff Parks and I have been busy over the Australian summer

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building up a new outlet for rugby coverage down this way.

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And we really, really hope that you would join us.

And joining the discussion has been absolutely fantastic.

We've already featured names that you know,

opinions that you really, really respect.

So, fight us on sub-stack.

Subscribe now to the exclusive home of Jeff's

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Plus more great riding through the rest of the rugby week as well.

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Tell us what you think by finding 8.9 rugby on the socials.

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