Ep 712 | TBS - Double London Marathon Stripped Down

Double London Math and we go through every permutation of what this means for the women's

elite, for good for rage, for the charity places, for the people who are at the paces,

for the people at the back of the pack, are we going to have a 36 hour cutoff time?

Is it going to be a run to the start and then running it and can you do double days?

Is there going to be a male winner on the women's day and if so, what's the time going

to be?

That is on this week's Bad Stuff. Take it away, guys.

Bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye.

Hello, Jay Rainsfield. How are you doing?

Hello, David. How are you?

I mean, we're both going through term or at the moment, but we ignore all these things.

We ignore all these things. You talk about me selling my treadmill here, sir.

Exactly, exactly.

We're talking about...

I've got an injury as well. I've got a doubt. Well, the same injury. It's just not...

Not a recovering, but we can... We can talk about that another day because I think...

I mean, double London Math and...

Oh, we've got straight into it. We've got straight into the big one.

I mean, I think that's the biggest news.

Like, that actually will affect people more than...

We talk about people being banned. We talk about people winning stuff. We talk about

the odd thing with alterations, but double London Math and...

That feels like an April full-level media job. It does feel like an April full-level.

And so just to clarify, these are secret talks, which... I mean, whenever they say secret talks,

that is clearly we're seeding it to the public to see what it's going to be. Those kind of...

Those kind of secret talks... Well, the driver's union come out in the end, sir.

Is not running the London marathon twice. It's having the London marathon on a Saturday and then

another running of it on a Sunday. And also, it means splitting the elite races as well.

So we have elite races on... I think the men's on one day and the women's on one day.

I've not read that, but I see. I've not actually read the details.

Some men and women would be separate. Yeah, yeah. So they'd have...

So you have an elite thing each day. And apparently it's been approved by...

Siddiq Khan, you know, he's already got kind of approval from it.

Siddiq! Siddiq! One, two, three!

There he goes! What's your first thought about it for him for sure?

What were your first thoughts?

My first thoughts were... one, this is amazing.

Two, people are going to be furious for things I've... I don't know why they're going to be

furious. But I genuinely thought this is absolutely brilliant and everything I've ever wanted.

I go say, this is like, for me, it's incredible. I think this is one of the best

pieces of news. And it seems so simple. You're like, all right.

Yeah. Why don't... Well, let's know what I thought of that before.

It's just... Because what it means, like, 100,000 people will be able to

to run the London marathon each year. And all those people who haven't got in,

you know, they're going to do it and it's too... Because the thing is, it's a bit of a shutdown

over the weekend anyway, isn't it? Like, not much can happen

on the Saturday because of what happens on the Sunday. And so,

I just... I can't... Like, as literally as I was walking the dog this morning, I was like,

I cannot think of what the downside would be. I want to hear what the downsides will be.

Because, you know, it's London, it should be able to handle that level of traffic and infrastructure.

If you go up there, you could watch it on the Saturday before doing it on the Sunday,

or you could do it on the Saturday and then watch it. So, you've got the absolute joy.

Because that's one of the other problems, isn't it? You want to be part of the experience.

But if you're running it, you kind of don't expect... You don't get the spectator experience.

And actually, being able to do both will be incredible.

But also, you can... You can get absolutely trashed on Saturday night.

You can get absolutely trashed on Sunday on the side of the marathon.

That has beard table. The... I think the downside is, like, what I don't understand is if...

The marathon brings everyone together.

Yeah.

And what now happens if I want to do it with my...

What happens if I'm doing... So, Brixton and I were going to do a joint costume.

We both get in.

Do we have to do it on different days? Is it just women's on Saturday?

I like the element of that.

I like the idea that there is still an element of...

But could I imagine, because it's opened up so many more spaces,

there will be an element of...

I don't know, I don't know what to do.

But I like the idea that, because you can still...

We select which day you want.

Both. Oh, that's... When you apply?

Yeah.

Yeah, that would be an interesting thing.

I imagine it would allow you to do something like that.

Because what will happen is eventually one day will be known as the better day.

What is it?

Well, the Sunday will always be the better day still.

No, the Wednesday.

No, no, Saturday will be the better day for people that drink.

For people that...

Saturday will be the fun day.

But Sunday will be the one that people will be like, they're real.

But the thing is, it means mom and dad can both run the marathon without being nightmare.

Yeah.

But I would... You do want to...

You do want to run the marathon the same day as your buddy's, don't you?

Do you, if you're not the same pace, does it matter?

Yeah, I think you want to have...

You want to have the war story, you want to have the...

We all meet at the Chandos or wherever it may be, rather than...

And even if you're supporting the marathon,

you want to support, oh, we can catch all our friends and like,

well, we can catch some of our friends today.

Some tomorrow...

It's short, who your real friends are.

It does.

From that perspective, yeah.

Got some people running on Saturday, some people running on Sunday.

Let's see which one you show up for.

But imagine if they did like a one day is just the...

the fun day.

It's almost like the Notting Hill carnival, where you have the kids day,

the family day, and then the hard core day where everyone gets wasted and gets stabbed.

But the...

whether they'd spit it, because does this mean double good for age?

There's only going to be one championship day.

So does that mean if there's championship day, they're going to flood the other day

with all the good for age?

Because there's not going to be the championship start there.

The thing, one of the things that they...

that I've seen in the reports of stuff is talking about

doubling the amount of money for charity.

That's kind of a big part of it.

So that's the angle you go with, though.

That's the angle you go with, isn't it?

Yeah.

That's the thing.

That's the angle you go with.

You make it...

But does it mean it will become cheaper?

Because actually, it's a lot less cost to put stuff up.

I assume they're going to keep things over, not...

Anne, does this mean?

That's the thing, isn't it?

It's just the setup cost is still the same.

There's still a security cost overnight and things like that, probably.

But does the cutoff time for the satiny become the whole 36 hours?

Well, actually, that's not a bad thing.

Is it that sort of bad thing that you could start running on the side?

Because they're always going to be people that are doing it for some...

I'm going to do it, you know, dressed as the big Ben or something,

and it'll take you up to 8 hours to do it or whatever.

So, I don't know.

There's that opportunity, isn't there?

There's that opportunity to have those people starting on the Saturday,

so that they still got coverage during the evening.

And then the next day.

Because the challenge will...

I mean, I was talking to someone last weekend about why on the more...

The founder of Endurance Life,

it was set up, they said, because they wanted to do more Saturday races.

And even more sort of the leeway about his cycle,

where they...

The public cycle on Saturday, they then party hard

while they watch the elites on the Sunday.

No, I wouldn't want to...

One quick thing on a Sunday.

I want to say, I hate to do that on a Sunday.

And so, but if you're...

It does change things slightly if you're requiring someone to

go to the Excel on Friday night.

Or on Friday day, you'll take...

You haven't taken extra day off.

But will it mean that London has run Saturday?

How does it stay open on a Friday?

It's quite...

I think it's quite late.

I think it was...

It's better now, the Excel.

Now the Elizabeth lines there.

Yeah, true.

It's better.

You can actually get to it.

But have there been any naysayers on Instagram?

Let's have a look, if one...

We know what the naysayers are going to be.

What do you think they're going to be?

People have said that it's going to be to do with tradition.

You're devaluing it.

Devaluing it, yeah.

Where would...

I think it's better than going,

oh, it's the London marathon weekend.

And we're going to have a half marathon.

And we're going to have a 5K.

And we're going to have a 10K, right?

And doing it that way, which I think, you know,

there's those things good for certain races.

But I was so...

I was literally overjoyed when I heard it.

And I don't know why I was so overjoyed.

Because it was...

I've run London loads.

So it's not...

It doesn't really make that much of a difference to me.

But I just think it's great for everyone else.

I think it gives more people the chance to do London,

which is great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, personally,

double the number of paces they need.

Maybe they're going to have to say, David, we're sorry.

Do you want to come and pace again?

Imagine that.

Even with 100,000 people,

we still don't want you.

Likely.

But I think for the running community,

like the number of good for age places

will dramatically increase, you'd imagine.

Because that's the space of the front.

Yeah.

Are we saying, then,

that if you are a naysayer,

you are...

you're the worst?

I'm going through the run as well, paste.

I've not seen...

I've not seen anyone...

Only objection you have is going to be a tradition thing.

It's just going to be...

I, I, I, the status quo.

This is what London's about.

It's about, you know.

And I just...

Oh, the...

The funny thing is, the funny thing is,

I don't think many other races could get away with doing it.

I think London can do it because it is so oversubscribed.

It is so...

And London hates...

London hates drivers.

London hates people in cars.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

What I also think is,

it's a reaction to, in fact,

that they're expanding the marathon majors.

It's just going,

you can expand the marathon majors all you want,

but we're so big,

we're doing fucking two days of it,

and we'll fill it like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's amazing.

There will be...

I mean, I can understand if you're...

There will be some businesses affected by this negatively,

I'm sure.

There will be some...

Closed, isn't it? That's the thing.

Well, that's the problem with the Sunday.

Is that if you go and...

Like, all around the city and everything,

when you go and watch it there,

you can't bloody buy anything,

because everything is closed up.

It's really, really annoying as a spectator,

which is why you, you know,

it's better to go further into the centre.

So, actually, do you want to Saturday?

Would be good for those...

Would be great for those businesses.

Yeah, some businesses,

but probably there will be some businesses

that will be massively affected by it.

I don't know which ones off to them here,

but yeah, so now your chances of getting through the ballot

will go from 1% to 2%.

Hello.

Hello.

Or I don't know if that will be true, actually.

They might...

Because...

Double day doesn't mean...

Double everything.

Is it double good for age?

Is it double...

You're not going to have double champion star.

Same amount of water on the course.

Same amount of toilets.

Yeah, I mean, like, those toilets,

they're going to have to do something incredible,

because you don't want to be turning up

to those toilets on a Sunday.

Oh, God, yeah.

The end of a Sunday, those toilets.

I mean, if you have a garden on the route,

I imagine you probably won't be very happy with about this.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're all...

You're...

You're Pagania's are going to grow, like, never before.

Absolutely.

I think it's interesting as well in terms of the spectators,

because I think it opens it up to more spectators.

People see it being able to see it,

who otherwise wouldn't have seen it.

Yeah.

Well, there's already going to be a thousand more places off that,

because championship star is 500 men, 500 women.

They're probably not going to do more elites,

you wouldn't think.

So that's maybe 30 of each.

With the Pacers 40.

So you're already looking at more places, higher ballot.

The question is, do they double the number of charity places,

or do they keep it all for ballot or not?

Sounds like they're going to double charity places.

Yeah.

But do you get a sense that they're...

I think if you want...

It seems to me,

if you want to run the London Math and the charity, you can.

I don't know if they can sell double the number of charity ones easily.

Do you get that center?

I'm quite often messaged by charities saying,

do you know anyone who wants to do London,

we've still got these places?

Is the demand...

Well, we need to speak to a fundraiser,

but do you think there's the demand there that if suddenly,

twice as many people had to raise two, three grand,

they're being snapped up,

because that's not my impression.

And does that mean, actually, the charity places, maybe,

you need to raise less, and they become a bit cheaper?

That's what I said, kid, do they?

Because I mean, the amount you raise is based on the amount,

the cost of the charity place, isn't it?

And the cost of the charity places is a certain amount.

So if they reduce the cost of the charity place,

then there's the potential of reducing the level that you need in order to run London,

which will bring in more people running for charities.

And also, I also think that even with that level of people who are applying,

I think there's a big swather people who just don't bother applying,

because they think there's no chance they're going to get in,

and I think they'll change, because of...

They will get a record number of people applying for the first time ever.

Oh God, does this mean we've got 19 hours of BBC coverage?

Oh, are they going to have to choose one day to just be like,

here's random person from random place who's doing random thing,

isn't this jolly?

Oh, for nine hours.

They're going to have to rethink that, aren't they?

Double the number of people at the expo.

Yeah, God.

Because the expo is on for quite a few days, isn't it?

Yeah, it's pretty round at lunchtime, isn't it?

Oh, is it right?

Oh, yeah, I suppose it was.

And Friday night, and Saturday, and so does this mean then?

So, this is going to be...

Actually, this will be hard for moneying the stands,

because you're going to have to allow people to pick up their passes on Saturday.

They're going to want the expo still.

They're going to want to force you to go to the expo,

because that's where they get their sponsorship,

and that's where they make a lot of their money.

So, if your caffeine bullet, performance bullet, you've got to stand,

you're going to have to be on the expo on the Saturday,

even when there's the marathon on the Saturday.

Whereas, a lot of brands do activations,

well, actually, on the course, run it themselves.

That's quite a tough ask.

So, a lot of the people on the stands as well aren't working for the brands directly.

They're people who are coming into London,

who they're helping out.

They're running it, they're supporting it.

I think the extra sympathy for any running brands at all.

We are really struggling to find a negative here.

Some of the running brands may struggle to work out how to do their activations

while the race is going on, or I mean that.

But a separate mini more caffeine bullets are going to be sold

to people on the stands when you've got to the people in the stands.

Yeah, just the people having to work the expo.

Just think, this is absolutely incredible new.

Because this is PB territory, isn't it?

Like, so many first-timers doing it need to get to the end.

You, literally, this is that's it.

That's it.

Thanks, Mr. Bales.

It's so funny.

You know when it's clear when a journalist has been briefed about something,

because they use language that you just wouldn't otherwise use.

And just looking at the one in the Guardian,

it was saying like last year it raised 87.3 million for charity.

And the ambition is it's 20, 20, 17 for a major boost to the capital.

And then this is straight out of a briefing.

The Guardian can also feel a series of meetings have taken place with various stakeholders.

Part of the proposal is that two-day London marathon would be a unique opportunity

to show unity and community across the country at a time of growing social and economic division.

What, how is it different to a one-day marathon?

How does it, how does it, how does that got to do with anything?

Wow, they're really clutching it strong.

Are we going to say we've got basically because of Brexit?

We now have a two-day London marathon because that's going to, there's nothing that brings

the country together, especially out north, looking at the image, the London doing something.

Looking at the image of the runner's world mag have used in the middle of it,

there's someone with a French flag running. Is this, is this, is this some plot to get us back

into Europe? Is that the deep story here?

We're going to get back to Europe.

I do wonder because you'd think London can absorb the extra numbers fine,

because surely even a London marathon weekend is going to be less than, so good on that.

The, what we've always wondered with, with...

Uber drivers and Deliveroo, and they're the ones that are going to struggle.

Yeah, actually I don't think Uber will struggle, but we'll be brilliant actually,

because they, they don't even have to do, they, they don't even drop you off at the place you

need to go to. They can drop you off kind of near and go, oh, it's all, but it's all blocked off.

People that, on set, yeah, they'll be, they'll be someone out there who's like, I don't know,

but the quite, do we think this is good for women's sport or not?

Because Goentrel have always split the final, or not always, the last years we split the final,

and wherever we can, they've split the race start times, but the, the finals has typically

been on different days. And sometimes, sometimes it can help the sport, because

you're actually giving the full coverage to the women's race. Sometimes it doesn't because

fewer people tune in for that reason. And so actually by almost being in the shadow of the men's,

sometimes the women's actually get more eyeballs. So that's the question is, will this damage

women's sport, the women's running, or will it actually improve it because they get their own

shake-case? Firstly, do we think it will improve the coverage for the, for the women's? Is it

good for the sport? But also, if the men, the men's elite are running on the Sunday,

are they going to stop any man being able to run a sub-220 marathon the day of the women's

elite? It's a really good point. They're going to have to, or do they have a separate start still?

Do they start early than the rest? Because there's going to be someone who wants to be,

who wants to win the London marathon, right? And are we then going to see anyone who's outside of

like a 208, then shifts to Saturday? Because they want to win the London marathon. Well, that's the

thing. If they're going to, if they're going to manage that, then there will be a day that is more

elite, isn't it? That's, that's the thing. And also, the other thing is that we're going to have

though, it's about coverage. Like, you know, BBC gave, essentially, what, six hours to it on a,

on a Sunday, pretty much. Like, are they going to give 12 hours in total? Are they going to do six

hours on a, I doubt it very much. So, so where's the, are they going to have to make decisions?

Because they've got to cover both the elite races. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It drops whatever the, whatever their program is on either days. That might be, that might be good

for them. That might be good. The funny thing is, I think, we're, we're, it's no matter which day

you put it on, people will be unhappy because they'll go, Oh, you put it on the Saturday. Well,

because then that's suggesting the Sunday is like the main event. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Sunday. People were like, Oh, yeah, so why are men getting the priority? So I, no matter what

decisions you make, people will read into it, whatever they want. And that's the, that's the other

thing. But who do we know? We need to find, we need to get someone. Can Enator

get their person to be the first winner of the sat, because that is cute us, right?

Being the first winner, the first male winner of the, well, the first winner male or female of the,

the, the Saturday London marathon is huge. What do we, that's going to be our sweet steak?

What do we predict if this happens will be the finished time for the male winner of the non-elites

day of the London marathon? And also, do they, so do they, if you, how do they, like with the result,

say that I've run the London marathon. So they're both officially the London marathon,

but they're on different days. Like, is there an overall winner of the London marathon?

I mean, they're, what do you call it? Yeah, there must be. And, and that will always,

because if they are officially the London marathon, unless, of course, they're going to have to do some,

some kind of, then, then what happens? So let's just say this, you're the Enator guy. You win

the Saturday, calling a bomb threat Sunday. You win the overall, you take home 200 grand,

hard for a million. I don't know how much it is. There's a big incentive to stop the elite from

completing, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, there is a huge incentive. Like a 200 grand, you,

would the, imagine the bookies, you place a bet on my mate, let's say, John, John album, John

album's going to win the London marathon. You get, you get 10,000 to one, you put that bet on,

there's quite an incentive for you to find a way to stop the others completing the marathon, right?

I love the idea that people run on the Saturday, and then it becomes the job of those people that

have run on the Saturday, for financial reasons, or just purely for mischievous reasons, to disrupt

the Sunday as much as possible. So it takes longer for people to get around the course.

I just, the thing is, what I'm looking forward to, I'm looking forward to the first,

the, all the first year fuck ups. Like, yeah, there will be a lack of something on the course.

There will be just turning up on the wrong day. And I just don't feel on the wrong day.

People will turn up on the wrong days. Spectators will get, you know, turn up on the wrong days.

Like, it will be so much, the, the, the, the first person to do the double is going to annoy

people so much that will happen because someone will get in on ballot or good for age and get a

charity place or apply through, you know, what, what we don't realize is that this is just one

big, um, rules to be able to flood it with more influences. It's true. Yeah. Yeah.

You've got an extra 50,000 people, 45,000 of those is just influences. We're all for

45,000 influences. But I like didn't want to get with, with zero training.

Did Neil say, oh, um, was it Neil Catley was saying, is this going to, is someone going to do

the double, double where you do the, the backwards map? The quadruple. Yeah. The quad.

I mean, that is first, it's a hundred mile. It's the same as 10,500, right?

It's the London marathon, 100 mile. The London 100 mile. Oh, see, that's really good.

That is good. I mean, that would have a good medal. Four pieces together.

But you have to do it completely with fate. I mean, like, Derek, Derek's going to have a,

Derek's going to need it. Isn't he? He's going to need it to 100,000 runners. He's going to,

he's literally like, whoa, this is, this is Christmas for me. There's going to be so much cheating

going on. It's going to be incredible. And how are the other marathon's going to respond?

Is, is this mean this will happen everywhere? Because I just can't see American cities closing

for two days. Not, well, not so when cars rule American cities. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit different

in London. This is genius, because then London just wins. But then, but then suddenly,

if Shanghai come in, Shanghai is going to have 10 days of marathon, because they just decide.

Well, that's it. Dictatorship, so you could do whatever you want, can't you?

Yeah. So maybe the North Korean marathon will come back just to break the record.

Well, I know we've got a tight finish in three minutes. We've only just talked about London,

nothing else than Michael Johnson. That's the big news, isn't it? That's the,

but do bad as in the Facebook group, the question will be, if this happens, what do we predict

the male finish time will be of the women's day of the first London marathon?

I like that way. I bet I absolutely guarantee no one's come up with any of these thoughts.

Well, that any of these other problems or anything. We're already thinking how we disrupt it,

ruin it, everyone. And I've already heard a rumor that they're planning a

London trail marathon to also come on the course with 5K to go. Absolutely. Love it.

If they did a London trail marathon, it wasn't on any trail at all. It's all on tarmac.

Yeah. Well, in fact, there's this quite, we've got two minutes left. Sarah Wittington said there's

a new race in Spain, which is, it's called dual run so that they're clearly trying to start a

new thing. I think they're probably trying to, and this must be commercial or marketing purposes

rather than actual need, where there's mandatory shoe changed at five kilometres. So it's a split

between road running and mountain running where you have to change your shoes. A mandatory shoe

change. Yeah. I mean, that's... I like the idea of a mandatory shoe change. It's got nothing

to do with the terrain. You're just forced to change your shoes. But you never know what shoes

you're going to get. That's the lottery. It's basically, there's a load of shoe boxes that are

unmarked and it might be the right size, might not be the right, it might be clown shoes,

might be the crocs. You don't know, but that's the, that's the risky take. Matt Mason said,

what happens if you're a barefoot runner? Do you then have to put on shoes or do you have to go

on your hands? That's a good point. I do like that idea, though, of, I think there's something fun.

You feel like you're a proper athlete when you have to change into a new equipment because

you're a performer. There's a transition. But I think it's more than that because if you change

from run to bike, that makes sense just cycling. But if you're changing from one shoe to another,

your performance has to be good enough because it makes sense. That makes a difference,

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I love the idea of someone because some people might walk this.

So I love the idea of someone coming in in their walking shoes and having to change

with different walking shoes to just be like, well, these are the rules.

From your crocs to performance crocs. I think we need to do this more. We need a beach shoe.

Let's think of how many different running shoes and running equipment that would make sense for

different water shoe. We need to get at least five different transistors here. Well, I know

you've got to go in two minutes. So that's the bad stuff, guys. We're going to ask you the question

in about the finished time, but also let us know what you think. Well, rather than letting us know

what you think, can anyone think of a genuinely bad reason that will come out of this? Anything

genuinely bad about this decision because we've not found a really decent one ever. No, I imagine,

I imagine like the matterlands and all the ones that, you know, when this kind of going around

some of those residential areas, they'll have a problem with it because it's, you know,

those kind of big books retailers require traffic to go into them and if there's issues,

it's going to reduce their trade. But that's the, oh, I can't think of many, but beyond that.

There is this one house that I peed on in maybe 2005 that every time I run past the house,

someone's peeing on the house. On the house, not on the garden, just on the house.

Just, well, it's through the window. You kind of peed against the wall of the house from the,

it's just, it just makes sense to go there. Other runners will know the house I mean if they've

experienced a similar issue. It's now a tradition. If you don't urinate against that house,

have you really finished underbar? It's true. It's true. Yeah, so do bad is that's the question.

The time and also can anyone think of a genuinely proper reason why this shouldn't happen because

I think it's fucking brilliant. That's just it, guys. We'll see you next time. See you later.

Talk to you, buddy.