Episode #103 Featuring Shawn Wells! The MOST TRUSTED Name in Supplements! ASTONISHING INSIGHT from the wide world of supplements! Also discussions on Peptides, SARMS, Scams and MORE!

With over 20 years in the supplement industry I have seen and heard it all, empty promises,

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with Tonum.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jamelli podcast.

So this is a different one for me today.

I am in a very famous setting, I would say, at the Soundshed Studios, thanks to my guest

today who set this all up and I'm traveling doing a nice little run here in Austin, Texas.

And I am beyond blessed as I was just telling my friend here before, but my guest today is

a close friend, first and foremost, so I can give him every accolade in the world and

give him an intro.

But I want to make sure that I say he's my boy.

And I met him through a friend of ours named Molly Eastman.

And actually, it's funny because I was checking out my friend's work and she wrote me

and so I have a friend that wants to connect with you.

And it was, I told my wife, I said, whoa, I said, this is, I was just, I had my own, because

I don't sit around and look and reach out for people very often anymore.

I did that when I got into the space, but it was just, it's God's work.

So, but my friend today, listen, first and foremost, he is known as the most trusted voice

and supplements.

And that's why I was deferring to him beforehand and discussing everything.

And I want to talk just a couple of other things he's done, biochemist, sports nutritionist,

he's a clinical dietician and he's helped people all over the world for many, many years,

super respected, well known.

I can go on and on, but anyway, my friends, Sean Wells, thank you, brother.

That means a lot that you're a great friend as well and looking forward to diving in here

and glad he came out to Austin and I'm stoked right now.

You know, I know that you made some sacrifices for me today to even even be here, cut in a

trip short that most people would never dream of doing.

And I appreciate you, I appreciate everything more.

So I appreciate the friendships and the discussions and the talks and the voice notes and everything

else.

It's really nice because you have a lot of friends, but you have very few real friends.

So thank you for that more than anything.

Thank you, Tim.

All right, so I've got a lot to talk to you about, I've been in the supplement industry

since 2011, probably in and out and I've seen a lot, I've done a lot, I've heard a lot,

and I've been around a lot, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly.

I want to talk to you first about how you got into supplements in general,

because it's a slippery slope when it comes to the whole game and how it works.

And then I just want you to talk about some of the really bad things that have gone on

and why you are a beacon of hope in the industry.

Yeah, thanks.

For me, I guess I'll go all the way back.

I'm 51 closing in on 52.

My mom in the 70s was like kind of a pioneer with this company,

Shackley, she was obsessed with supplements.

Had the tackle box way before anyone else I know, and there was like the whole food,

it was called Vitalee, multivitamin, and there is a vitamin E that she would like break open,

put on my wounds, bad wounds, we had vitamin C because Linus Pauling's work was just coming out

on orthomolecular dosing of vitamin C and like the benefits it might have far beyond just

scurvy around and vitamin C deficiency.

But fast forward, so that was where I grew up with the belief that these tablets, capsules,

soft gels had power, but I did grow up with a difficult time at home, at school.

There was bullying, there was a lot going on, and I became morbidly obese, I became very sick.

I was going to school at a very prestigious business school, Babson,

and getting my business degree because that's what I was told to do,

you know, just go out there, make money.

I didn't know what really sparked my passion at that point,

but I started working out.

I was reading these magazines, reading these bodybuilding encyclopedias, like from Arnold.

There was these supplement review guides and all these things that I was at GNC.

I was at the time Barnes & Noble, or you know, Walden Books, or whatever reading all the magazines.

And I was just obsessed with it, and I would spend like three, four hours in a GNC,

just reading labels, and I believed in the power of these supplements.

I believed in the power of working out.

I started working out, and you know, especially when you're first working out,

you know, you're moving up like a set of dumbbells every time you go back to the gym.

It's super exciting.

And at that same time of yes, me working out, yes, protein,

creatine had just dropped into the market.

And it had radically changed the landscape of sports nutrition at the time.

And with that came a lot of other innovation from companies like EAS.

And I was just working out like crazy, taking all the supplements, seeing changes.

And I went to my doctor in between my sophomore and junior year for an annual physical.

And I was telling them all about like my passion on this,

and just how exciting it was, and all the changes, and he saw the changes in my body composition,

my health, and was very happy for me.

And I remember seeing these ads where there was this guy who I eventually got to meet.

Dr. Marv Hoyer with Muscle Tech.

And he had like these like colored bottles and there's bodybuilders in the lab with him.

And I was like, fat's cool.

I want to do that.

And I was telling them all about this.

And I thought he was just going to laugh at me and tell me that's stupid.

And instead, he drew out a lifeline for me and told me why not be happy between here and here.

And that was the first person in my life that gave me permission

to not do what's smart or what's logical, but pursue my passion.

You know, I didn't have the Tony Robbins, the Oprah Winfrey, the Instagram,

the all the entrepreneurs, like at that time, everyone was

doing what they're told to do and working corporate.

There were no entrepreneurs that I knew of for the most part.

And that shifted everything for me.

I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go back to school, even though it's going to be difficult.

I'm going to get like two, three years worth of pre-rex and sciences.

Then I'm going to get into my masters at a great school and I did at Chapel Hill.

And then that led to me becoming a dietician.

And then I had to work as a chief clinical dietician and long-term care

and acute care like hospitals.

But all the while on the evenings, on holidays, on weekends,

I was working at supplement shops.

I was working on at that time the different forums for different companies,

doing white papers, going to the Arnold the Olympia,

doing all these kinds of things and building my cred.

And eventually, after about 10 years of working clinically,

I got on in industry to become the director of R&D at Dimitize,

and which is a massive company.

And we helped take it to sale to post for $425 million.

And then that just set my whole career ablaze.

Because one, I had worked at a top,

one of the top, maybe like VAM and optimum nutrition,

where the top at the time, supplement companies and sports nutrition.

And I helped sell a company.

I was instrumental in taking that company to sales.

And now all the sports nutrition companies were coming to me.

And especially supplement companies that were looking to go to sale

to private equity, to strategic, were seeking me out.

And then I even started working on my own ingredients,

the background like tea, cream, and dynamite,

where my first, and I've done about 40 cents.

And I've formulated about 1200 products since.

I've had a best-selling book since called The Energy Formula.

And a course to go with it.

I've been on Mind Valley with the ultimate guide to supplements.

I've spoken 60 countries.

Like it's been amazing from just a fat kid with a dream at one point.

To where I am now.

It's pretty incredible.

That's amazing.

Absolutely amazing.

Dimitize was pretty damn and insanely big.

I mean, like you said, it was at that time

that I remember optimum nutrition and dimitize.

And there were just a couple others that were like the top four or five.

So well known.

That's amazing, man.

So are you creating ingredients yourself?

I have a team of 100 scientists that I work with in China

and a business partner in China in Nijing.

And it is a pharmaceutical level, multiple facilities.

We work with a number of not only elite brands,

but truly like a number of pharmaceutical companies.

So you know, you may hear China,

but this is like the most elite level of manufacturing and synthesis.

And as I'm saying, when you have 100 scientists,

like you can create a lot of things.

So I'll dream things up and literally like a week or two later,

I have it in my hands.

Wow.

And that's pretty exciting.

So then we do synthesis, enzymatic,

herbal extraction of a number of methods,

fermentation, which I believe is the future of this

bacteriologic fermentation where you can create an ingredient

cleanly by you take like yeast and you modify it genetically.

And then the yeast can make this compound.

And so instead of having like a starter material and solvents and all of this stuff,

like normally with with a typical synthesis, synthetic ingredient, fermentation,

it's just made.

There is no like solvent.

There's no like other starter products.

I mean, besides like maybe glucose or something.

So it's a really clean process, a vegan process,

a sustainable process for the environment and for your health and

fermentation's the future.

So that's what we've been working heavily on

is making ingredients through fermentation.

And then I've been very focused at shifting a lot of trends in the industry.

Like with N&B, the company that I created ingredients with,

we went to a new concept, the pure potent precise.

We're very focused on ready to drink in the industry.

It's called RTD.

So that's things like update here or life cider, you know, things like that.

You know, basically cans, bottles, etc.

We're also in like ready to consume.

I would say is, you know, things like oral pouches, gummies, sublingual strips.

We're seeing the market mood shots.

We're seeing the market move this direction

because the ready to mix powders and then most certainly the tablets,

soft gels, capsules are just not as popular anymore, especially with Gen Z

and in particular, Gen Alpha, they want ready to consume.

Is that more expensive?

Is that more complex?

Yes, because you're flavoring it.

There's stability issues.

How well does it dissolve into things like with gummies,

like is it stable in heat in the moisture and sugar and, you know,

whatever it is?

There's more complexity to it.

But younger people just want to consume

whatever it is they're having and enjoy that experience rather than choking down a handful of

capsules or, you know, having too much powders and all those kinds of things.

So with the market shifting, our company is shifting and we're doing pure potent

precise and so we are looking at no herbal extractions, no extra biomass, you know,

and some things are one percent or five percent.

That means that there's 99 percent or 95 percent other stuff than the active.

You know, that's going to settle to the bottom.

That's going to have what we call organoleptic or basically taste issues.

It'll have solubility issues, stability issues.

We're putting that to the side.

We're just doing pure compounds.

Then we want potent, which means tiny doses.

A lot of the things that we're working on have like five, 10, 50 milligram doses.

Very small doses, not typically like multi gram doses.

And then precise is around all the technologies that we're using for delivery and enhancing

stability, whether it's liposomes, micro encapsulation,

emulsions, like a lot of these different things that we're looking at as well.

So we're pioneering, I believe, what's coming next and we're setting the tone for that.

There's a lot of difficulty.

I think people don't understand like, for instance, like with a creatine gummy or

how much you can fit in there to where it actually works.

Doesn't taste bad.

Doesn't stick.

Isn't chalky.

I've seen it so often and there's so many things that turn out bad.

You guys are pretty precise with how you do that.

And how it works and like the sugar contents and all of these things.

I mean, I see these everywhere and I sit there and I ask myself,

why would you sell some of these things with this much crap in there?

I mean, do you advise people when they come to you?

Do you tell them like this or do you say this is how it has to be?

Because I'm curious because I see it and I sit there and I say,

well, for people in our industry,

sucralose, I mean, things like this that we speak out against.

Should I see so many of them being sold in front of all of the people that we work with?

Tell me about that a little bit.

Yeah.

So I have another company called Zone Halo and I have a team around that where we do

formulations, QA, QC, packaging, innovation, regulatory, studies, patent filings,

third party logistics, all this kinds of stuff.

And we definitely do formulations like you're talking about.

And typically, I'll tell you with creatine gummies in particular,

you may have seen the data that now foods tested from Amazon as well as Subco,

another new company, a new app.

They've looked at creatine gummies and between both of them, about 90 to 95% of the products on

the market are a bunk.

Yeah.

And the reason this is is because creatine in particular converts to creatinine under moisture.

And so this is the problem why you can't currently.

You know, we're all trying to work on this.

I'm working on this.

I think the industry is trying to work on this, solving creatine in ready to consume and

particular, ready to drink beverages because as soon as you put it in moisture,

it starts converting to creatinine.

And therefore, it is not stable and you won't deliver active creatine.

You're delivering essentially inert creatinine.

And that was the case in all the testing that's been done.

Even companies that have overages, I would say the only creatine candy, if you will,

that I would trust, that's not, it's not a gummy.

I wouldn't trust that.

But something that's more like in the dry, sweet tart kind of idea.

I know muscle tech, Iovate, they make one.

I think animal, which is a brand in sports nutrition, they make some

creatine choose or sweet tarts or whatever, you know, smarties, you know, that kind of thing.

That makes sense.

Anything with significant moisture, like a gummy or certainly a drink,

it's not going to last, it's not going to test out.

Further with Amazon and the testing that was done by now foods, who has been a

just gold standard for 30, 40 years now.

Like I love now foods, great price.

And I think they were taking a beating because they've been in retail in particular,

the mom and pop shops in supplements.

And they've been taking a beating obviously from Amazon.

And in particular, the Amazon choice supplements that are basically whatever's cheapest.

Yeah.

And they have manipulated reviews.

And they did about 14 different single ingredients.

And maybe as many as 20 or 30 different products on Amazon per ingredient.

So think of like astazanthin,

burberine, maybe it was like ginseng or, you know, something like this.

And they tested out all these different products.

And about 80% of them tested short of label claim.

About 30% of them had no active at all.

And this is allowed on Amazon.

So be careful what you're consuming.

Be careful what you're paying for just because it has a great price.

Just because it has great reviews, I would be very reluctant to buy it.

If it's not a great company like a Thorn, a pure encapsulations, Nordic naturals,

now foods, designs for health, zymogen, like some of these really great trusted names that

have been around for multiple decades and have quality control departments bigger than these

companies have employees. Think about that because I've been at these companies where we had

20 plus people in quality control just doing testing.

These other companies that are on Amazon, some of them are making nine figures on Amazon

have one or two employees and they're just pumping out dust and a capsule.

And not only that, what I also worry about is,

yeah, we're talking about the things that you want in there, not being in there.

But what about the things you don't want in there being in there,

like heavy metals, like bacteria, like some foreign substances or even banned substances.

If you're tested at your job, if you're a pro athlete, be very careful.

You know, this stuff can lead to health issues, even like companies that don't have great

quality control and their contract manufacturers where they're made. There's been cases where

they were off on the vitamin D by 10 or 100 fold and then people got very sick because there's

way too much in there. And so I will just put this out there right now. Just please stop buying

10 bad supplements and just buy one really good supplement and start from there. And that's

the scientific method, too, is to do one thing at a time, see how it works for you and then

move to the next thing. So if you're going to add one thing, make sure it's the right thing and

from a quality company and it's got what you want in there and doesn't have what you don't want in

there. And then add another thing. But don't tell me how supplements don't work because you're

using crap from Amazon that has saw dust in it and maybe some heavy metals. Right. Because

supplements absolutely do work and there's thousands and thousands of studies showing that.

And I've been behind a number of these ingredients and formulas and I'm very proud of them. And I

take, I know people are shocked off and I'd take more than a hundred capsules a day probably.

You know, I'm almost 52 and I feel very young. I think my metabolic age was on a recent test,

was 33 years old. So I'm doing something right. Would you say then that on Amazon and we're

going to just talk about Amazon briefly right now that as long as it's a company like you set a

reputable company, you're still going to get what you're supposed to get or is there anything

being faked around there like if it says sold and distributed by Amazon or if it's coming from

said company store like should you even buy anything from there? Yeah, great question. I love this

question because it's very relevant. So be very careful when some things third party seller on Amazon.

You can, there's a lot of counterfeiting on Amazon. Some of these elite brands that I was just

talking about are the ones that get knocked off in sports nutrition. It is like a company like a

muscle tech and you know, in kind of wellness, it would be the, the now the Jero, the life extension,

you know, these really great brands are the ones that get knocked off. In particular, in foreign

countries like India, it is about 85% of the supplements in India are counterfeit and have nothing

in them. That's a whole other discussion. But on Amazon, 20 to 30% of these high quality products

are also counterfeits that's been found as well. So be very careful when you're purchasing on Amazon,

even these elite brands, make sure you're buying them from a first party seller. So if it's now

foods, you're buying from now food store on Amazon or someone who is trusted like if GNC or

vitamin chopper on Amazon or someone that's a trusted seller, I don't know who else, a target or

you know, someone on Amazon that that you know is legitimate. Great. But if it's some company you've

never heard of selling the thorn or pure encapsulations, I would be very happy of that.

And make sure that and people watch it. Make sure you actually look because it's very easy to just

click, click bye-bye because it says Amazon Prime. I've done it. I made that mistake before and caught

it and was like, oh, cancel, you know, because it will say right on their soul and ship by Amazon and

you can see if it's coming from the actual store because that's scary, man. Like I can go back

on so many instances where I know for sure that people have overdosed things. And I'm going to

touch on that in a little bit. I'm going to go down down the line on some things I encountered and

see your thoughts on it. But it's dangerous. It's actually worse to get too much of it than to not

get any at all. I mean, and that's what's scary because I mean, it's it's been the Wild West out

there. I remember particularly, I think I was 18 years old and and it was called Xenodrin. Yep.

And I took a couple and I mean, there had to have been way too much in there because my heart was

coming under my chest and I thought I was going to die. Like I remember going to my mom and

dad panicking like shaking and my heart was skipping beats and all over the place and

it's these things that they're not and I don't want to touch on that. The FDA regulated and how do we

know if we're getting what we're supposed to with supplements? They is anything FDA regulated?

How does this work so we know what we're actually getting?

We are it is a regulated industry. I know it gets said often that it is and it is the FDA,

the FTC, the FTC when it comes to like messaging in print on on radio or voice ads, social media,

FTC is part of that regulation and then FDA would be over supplement products. The problem is

the FDA is woefully undermined. Yeah. And supplement companies are coming out by the hundreds

every day and it's an industry that really can't be kept up with. So it has to be pretty

egregious for the FDA to red flag it and step in. As you've mentioned, like there are situations with

like athedran or DMAA or some of these ingredients through the years that have been an issue.

Certain brands, there's been owners that have gone to jail from the FDA like USP labs speak MDMA

but it is rare. It is rare that this kind of thing happens. The FDA typically will do more on the

contract manufacturing level with audits of the contract manufacturers. They'll inspect these

facilities and make sure that these facilities are doing what's called GMP good manufacturing practices.

So that's where we see the FDA. But by and large, it's it is regulated but woefully

under-regulated, I will say. Okay. That's what I thought. And there's so many people that run

their mouth that say things that don't know what they're saying out there. And it only gets worse,

especially in bodybuilding industries, things get passed along and then people believe it. And I've

been seeing it since the since I started doing this. It's been going on forever. Now we you went

way back in time. When do you think was this major shift towards supplement use? Creatine for me

was always one of the first things I heard of in high school. I was that was like later 90s, 96, 97 was

when it kind of became popular to me. Is that when you feel like there was more of a shift towards

supplements? Was it prior? Because there was a lot of multi vitamins were being pushed a lot.

And and I do want your thoughts on multi vitamins, too, as opposed to taking singular things. But

what was it? Was it creatine that you think was the biggest thing? First and this is not we're not

talking steroids or PDs. I'm just talking regular legal supplements. Do you think that was the

first one that really got it really smoke in here? It is like mid to late 90s when we saw not only

creatine but a fedron. Yeah. And a fedron like shook the country like in a good and bad way.

I mean, there was as you mentioned, like Xena dream, but also metabolife and hydroxy cut and

rip fuel and diet fuel. And there was so many these and everyone was using a fedron. Everyone was

talking about a fedron. Creatine was something that truly worked. And before then a lot of products

and sports nutrition were just hype and sawdust. And that was that was the game changer for sure.

Where and then we started seeing the ready to drink products. There was American bodybuilding

that had like that was at your gyms that had, you know, carb drinks, protein drinks, pre-workout

type drinks. And then there was the birth of the pre-workout around that time with NO Explode.

Yep. And that was a game changer too. Pre-workouts became a staple for anyone working out and still

is to this day. Those were huge. And then that we also had the berry bonds, Patrick Arnold,

Mark McGuire scandals with PEDs. And a lot of these athletes were starting to delve into steroids

or designer steroids, breaking records, becoming like kind of uber athletes if you will that were

a generation defining. And then that was the the era pro hormones. And we saw a lot of these pro

hormones that on some levels were rivaling the steroids that bodybuilders were using for decades.

You had ones like super droll and pharaohplex and methyl one testosterone that were, I mean,

people were putting on, you know, 10 plus pounds in a month of lean muscle from a quote unquote

supplement. And trust me, the FDA had this step in on that one as well with pro hormones. And then

of course later on it, there were charms of kind of another era. But I think it was around that

time. It was like mid 90s to maybe mid 2000s that we saw like a huge boom in particular in sports

nutrition. All right, here we go. This is my wheelhouse. And so this is where I really want to go

with you. I started to get the fascination studying steroids because of such a massive sports fan.

And so in the era of Andro and HGH and steroids and everything else under the sun,

and all these stories of them telling you, oh, I didn't know I was taking this or it was

flax oil. And I quickly understood the nonsense behind all of this. But I also understood

what they did and what they didn't do. And how crazy and wild the things that you hear in the

media are that just clueless, just clueless on what they say about these things. And then it

became shifted towards the pro hormones like you're talking about. And I want to get into

all of this with the pro hormones to the charms because that's kind of where I really

got into everything and what I became known for on YouTube. So I want to hear your thoughts

on all of this. So it was 20, 2010, 11 was when the pro hormones really, really became popularized.

And like you said, Superdraw was a big one. Epistane was a very popular. Hayla Draw was very

popular. There were many, many, many. And some were methylated. So I'm not methylated. And

these like you said, design or steroids, but you know, often more toxic than just taking

straight anavar or wind straw 100%. I mean, Superdraw made me feel the worst of any steroid I

ever used aside from trend. I could tell you that was the worst experience in my life where I

gained 20 some odd pounds in three to four weeks. But I felt horrible. And when I tell you I felt

horrible, I mean, I hated the world. I mean, don't want to get in bed. My liver values through the

roof. How, how did these get to become legal? Like how did, how were these ever legitimately

overlooked with what they were doing? And when did they really first come out? It started,

it started with the EAS who I said was like behind creatine and they had phosphogen, which is

they're creating phosphogen HP, which was creatine plus carb. Phosphogane was creatine and protein.

But they became huge and eventually Abbott bought them out and then actually shut them down. But EAS

was massive at one point. Really, the ones leading the charge in sports nutrition and everyone

was following. The first one was a product called Andrasten Diome. Yep. And that was the first

thing. And it was a kind of like post cursor to DHA, a DHA mild, very mild. But they found that

it occurred naturally in scotch pine. And so they found like a naturally occurring source.

And with that, you can have DHA, the dietary self, dietary supplements, health, education,

act, which means if it is naturally occurring or a metabolite of something naturally occurring in

quote unquote food supply, it can be a dietary supplement potentially.

So that led to a pro hormone, which was a, this Andrasten Diome is a precursor to testosterone.

Being on the market and people were stacking it with DHA and saw Palmetto and whatever

these things at the time, seeing very minor effects. But that led to basically other people coming in

and saying, well, we'll just release steroids. And it was completely overlooked and underregulated

at the time. And it got so extreme to the point that you're talking about where these

methylated steroids that absolutely shouldn't have been on the market that do not occur naturally

in any plants or anything in the food supply. We're on the market and literally killing people.

In some cases, like what you're talking about with, with superdraw on pharaohplex and these

methylated steroids of people are stacking, getting all kinds of liver damage. And people were

thinking that they are safe because they're supplements. And that clearly wasn't the case.

And at least with steroids, we have 30, 40, 50 years of data of bodybuilders using them knowing

how to use them safely, safely getting labs and working with a doctor potentially and a coach.

You had just kids going into GNC and vitamin shop, just buying steroids and saying more is

better and not doing a proper post-cycle therapy or knowing what their labs are, any of that kind of

stuff. And certainly stacking it with things like a fedron and it became very dangerous, for sure.

I remember I was testing this out at the time and I was writing some of the companies and I was

saying, well, what's your protocol? And how do you come off of these? You know how many people

are saying, oh, just take our post-cycle supplement and or you just don't even need one. And you and I

both know, taking these, you absolutely need a post-cycle therapy or you're going to rack your

testosterone production. I don't know how many people that were teenagers or in their 20s that

probably put themselves on TRT using these not running a post-cycle and never doing blood work,

thrashing their liver, thrashing their blood pressure, cholesterol, everything through the

roof. I mean, that havoc was one that was super popular. That was an epistane form, but

running something like superdraw and not taking proper protection and protocols. That's just like

running anodraw. I mean, essentially, and DMZ was another one. So here, here's what happens.

2011, 2012, I was working with several companies. They were producing pro hormones and they

got me on YouTube and got me their two videos. And one of the things they wanted me to start

discussing was SARMS and peptides. And I said, I don't know.

Shit, about any of these things. I've got to learn them and study them because the only way to get

these is on the research market underground. So I became known as the SARMS guy at the time because

peptides were not popular. Bodybuilders, they were pretty useless. I mean, there was like seven,

eight to pick from GHRPs, Melanitan. There really was next to nothing. And they weren't producing

size or anything. So SARMS obviously became of interest, as you know, with what they can do.

And the first things I ran, because there was only a few at the time, was MK286 and S4.

And that was really it. MK677, when I learned about them, then they started coming out with more.

Well, then what happened? Pro hormones get banned. And then one android, two android, those are still

legal. They're looking for loopholes. But what happens? All these people get stuck with all of their

pro hormone powders and they find SARMS and start selling those and supplements. Now one of the things

that I found rather quickly was that people were putting their pro hormone powders in their

and selling them with SARMS. And people were getting side effects. They shouldn't get with SARMS.

And then all of this stuff compounds and all of these articles come out about how dangerous they

are when in reality they weren't. They are, but not to the extent. What happened there? I mean,

how did this shift so quickly? And do you remember who the first like companies were that started

doing this? Well, there was a lot of companies that were making a fair amount of money being like

hardcore and underground by selling pro hormones as they were getting banned or pulled off the market

or the bigger companies removed themselves from the market either because of lawsuit, bad press,

FDA pressure, etc. But the smaller companies knew there was still money to be made. And with that

vacuum filled in SARMS, the selective androgen receptor modulators, I will say that the SARMS,

while potentially the idea was that they were safer than these pro hormones, but had the effects

of steroids. The promise was the effects of steroids without the side effects. The problem is

the HPTA, this hype of phalamic up to itary access, that you were still getting suppression

because these doses were much higher than they were supposed to be because that's where you were

seeing the significant effects. So these like YK11 and Rad 140 and you know, there's a there's a

slew of S23s like in a steroid. Yeah, impressive. Exactly. There's there's a number of them that are

out there and and they are very potent in their effects, but they're potentially very potent in

their side effects and you still need to run post cycle therapy and all these things and they are

orals and in some cases are potentially still hard on the liver. So I don't know that they're

really at this point any safer than the pro hormone era. I have come to the realization that I

and part of this is the evolution of them because when it started, they were lighter and the more

that they made the YK11 as actually got methylation in it. For example, so it's very very toxic

to the liver, but then we started to see more blood panels where, oh, wow, MK2866 has

really hurt the liver and we see some estrogen activity. It's aggravating people with

kind of comastia, which wasn't supposed to do. And then the S4 side effects with the vision

and then they came out with S23 and I started to see, well, this is this was it was nicknamed,

it was like a male contraceptive. That was the nickname of it. It's just completely shutting

down testosterone. Well, you can recover from it quicker. Well, how do you know that? You know,

and it's just the marketing trick. I guess that I've seen that evolution go on and it's scary.

You know, it's very scary. The uneducation that people have and what they're doing to themselves.

And that's why, you know, everybody's looking for an edge. Everybody's looking for to build muscle.

And that's where I'm transitioning. So we've got all of these. We've got your pro hormones. We've

got the charms. We know what they can do. We also know the damage they can do. For you,

where is this gone for something that's natural and safe? Like what are the options aside from

creatine, which we know. And I want, we'll go back to creatine on the other benefits. But what

else is there that we could potentially build good strength and good muscle without shutting down

our natural testosterone without thrashing our endocrine system and having all of these side

effects? What are the options? Yeah, I have a handful that I would say are actually quite potent

and effective. Are they going to be steroid like? Probably not, but radically safer for sure.

Dylucine is an ingredient I've helped bring to market. It's a dipeptide of

lucine. Lucine drives muscle protein synthesis. The key amino acid, the branch chain amino acid,

the essential amino acid that drives the creation of more muscle. Very key in your body for this

reason when you care about skeletal muscle hypertrophy or muscle growth. And certainly this

applies to repair and recovery and athletes in general, not just bodybuilders or people looking

to put on muscle, but but those that need muscle repair and recovery. Dylucine is a dipeptide and

it's much faster than lucine and uses what's called this pepped one transporter in the gut

to deliver it about 189 percent faster. And what we've seen is 60 percent more muscle protein

synthesis over lucine and 159 percent more muscle protein synthesis than exercise alone.

And this is really impressive because lucine is what we would call refractory where it doesn't

matter how much you deliver at some point. It just shuts off. That's as much muscle protein synthesis

as you can get. We're seeing a dramatic difference in muscle protein synthesis, strength and recovery.

With dilucine versus lucine or anything else.

So this has been exciting. This is one that bodybuilder, natural or unnatural would be excited

about because this outperforms EAAs, BCAAs, any like lucine based anything. So this is the most

potent natural antibiotic that we know of. How's the safety profile? Incredibly safe. This occurs

naturally when you hydrolyze or break down a protein, you get down to dipeptides.

And it may seem counterintuitive that a dipeptide is, which is two amino acids together,

is faster than a single amino acid, but that's the case where this special transporter in the

gut takes up dye and tripeptides because of signaling. Actually, we now understand that as

peptide signaling, where this peptide is going ahead of all the free amino acids and telling them

what to do and where to go. So that's what's happening with dilucine. With that, there's two sides

of the equation, muscle protein synthesis, muscle protein breakdown. So to prevent the breakdown of

muscle, HMB is an ingredient that's been around for a decade, but is great, especially paired with

dilucine. So HMB dilucine. And then with that, I love obviously creatine, as we've mentioned,

that protects skeletal muscle mass, increases power, but we're also seeing

it be protective to DNA, to traumatic brain injury, reduces fatigue, improves bone strength

and bone mineral density, improves fertility and protects the ovaries and testes, improves eyesight.

I could just keep going down the line of all the benefits we're seeing of creatine. I think

everyone should be on that. And it truly protects muscle as we age, which is that muscle loss as we

age is called sarcopenia. Everyone should be on creatine. Another strength enhancer that I like

is b-tain. Okay. I'm also called tri-method glycine. Yep. That's a great one as well. So this is

like kind of my ultimate stack. There are some of these peptides out there that are

claiming to be peptides from like fava bean. There's a brand called the pepti-strong

thing. And I don't know that the data seems a little confusing to me. Whether that works or not,

maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. I'm not really sure. I haven't truly seen compelling data to

this point, but maybe that's helpful. I don't think taking additional BCA's or EAs are that

helpful unless you're on some kind of extreme caloric restriction. If you're getting enough protein,

if you're getting enough calories, I think those have little to no benefit. I think taking

dilucine two or three times a day with HMB and creatine at each of those potential two or three

doses is going to have far more impact. So that would be my ultimate stack. So creatine,

chim-b, b-tain, and dilucine. Correct. Okay. Sweet. Can you just stay on those? Do you need a cycle

off of them? I believe you can stay like it's safe to stay on them. There is an idea maybe with pathways,

receptor, density, all these kinds of things. Maybe cycle off things for, you know, you're on them

12 weeks, get off them for two to four weeks, you know, that kind of thing. Okay. So your body

could acclimate to them, but not necessarily. Yeah. Okay. I always like to cycle things in like

12, 16 weeks on, take a couple weeks off, reintroduce them. That's just how I've always operated,

but I'm always curious. Creatine, I just stay on. Okay. Let's talk a little bit more about

creatine. I want your thoughts on this because this is one of those things that drives me nuts.

Loading phase, which are thoughts on loading phase of creatine. There is

legitimacy into the idea of a loading phase and that you can have what you're trying to do is

increase creatine phosphate levels in the muscle. And by taking creatine monohydrate or

you know, some form of creatine like that, you're going to increase endogenous in the body levels

of creatine phosphate. Right. The higher you dose the creatine, the faster you get to saturation

levels in the muscle. So with creatine loading, which is typically around 20 grams a day,

we see saturation in the muscle at about five days. If you were to do three grams a day,

we see it at about 28 to 30 days. And of course, somewhere in between, if you were

dosing 10 grams a day, maybe it's, you know, I don't know, 10 days, you know, something like that.

But that's where the logic is beyond that. There is some really compelling data now that the muscle

has active transport of creatine into the muscle. The brain does not. We see a lot of effects of

creatine on the brain, but it's a passive transport. What this means is that only very large doses

of creatine are affecting the brain. Got it. And that's where we're seeing effects on

traumatic brain injury, like literally one being prophylactic or neuro protective or two being

therapeutic or healing to the brain when you already have a brain injury. But also, and by the way,

ketones would actually be really good to combine with a traumatic brain injury with creatine.

But also, we're seeing new studies talk about fatigue and resistance to fatigue and those

being underslept. There was a study with the 20 to 30 grams where they only got like five hours

of sleep, I believe. And they felt as good as and performed as good as those that had eight hours

of sleep. And so we're seeing creatine be remarkable, truly remarkable. You have to think about

how big of a difference that is. I mean, that would be being three hours underslept would probably

be the equivalent of having like four alcoholic drinks in terms of your performance. Oh, yeah.

It has a dramatic effect. So having your brain perform at a well-slept level just because of one

intervention because of 20 plus grams of creatine is quite profound. Where we're also seeing some

interesting research and the data is not complete here yet is a precursor to creatine called GAA.

And this is fairly new to the market. GAA may help push the creatine to the brain in a way that

just taking creatine alone doesn't seem to work. We're seeing one or two grams of GAA

with a few grams of creatine, say three grams of creatine, work as well as 20 grams of creatine.

Really? So this is very interesting, especially because that's a very large dose of creatine and

two, there may be some GI distress associated with in particular women seem to have a harder time

with larger doses of creatine. This could be a game changer there. So that's been very exciting

is this GAA along with creatine. Any products that have this GAA in it or any solo products yet?

I am not sure that this data is pretty new. I think that I think maybe at the time of this

podcast dropping, maybe there'll be a few companies. So it's very that there was like a good

neurological benefit then to take in the GAA with me. Just thought of my friend's company,

actually unmatched, Chris Gaffin. Yeah. It was the face of bodybuilding.com back in the day. I

loved them for years. He is a product called Cregatine. I've taken it. I love it. And it has

creatine GAA in it. And yeah, so that is a product that you can take. I'm a huge fan of all

things, Chris Gaffin. He's my guy, man. He sent me that when he first was coming out with it.

And I always tell him, hey, man, I got to get some more than him out. I got to get some more.

That's one of my favorite products. I love it. Okay. One secret ingredient I did not mention

if you're into working out and maybe it could enhance certainly muscle but like workout adaptation

much faster. Think of it as getting more reps, more steps out of every workout is an ingredient

I've worked on that is an exercise mimetic. We've seen ingredients in that Sarm

market that you were mentioning in the past that GW 501-5-6 or A-Car or S-R. Exactly.

These kinds of ingredients that mimic exercise literally quote-unquote exercise in a bottle.

We can't say that with the FDA. You have to say with good diet and exercise and all that.

Baiba, beta amino isobutiric acid, especially the L isomer, which is sold as mitoburn,

enhances this exorkind. So as you're working out, your BCAA pool, which is about 50% of your muscle,

breaks down to some degree. This was the theory around taking BCAAs while you're working out.

And in particular, valine is one of the three BCAAs. Valing will convert into an exorkind,

meaning like a signal from exercise. It's also called a myokine because it's a signal from muscle

breakdown. And this signal says to the body, we're working out intensely. All the adaptations

associated with intense working out, let's ramp those up. So, Baiba is literally associated with

improved VO2 max, neuroclasticity, bone mineral density, muscle, innervation, and strength,

increased skeletal muscle mass. All the things that you would associate with working out intensely

are associated with Baiba. And we've shown that oral Baiba, the mitoburn, will increase your

endogenous or in the body levels of Baiba around a workout quite dramatically. So this is literally,

like I said, like getting more reps or more steps out of every workout. So that's pretty

compelling as well. And we're also seeing decreased fat mass improved the ketone utilization,

glycogen utilization, or storage, like all of these kinds of things that we associate with exercise.

We've talked about creatine a lot, but I want to ask one more on your thoughts here because

you and I have both seen the evolution of creatine in all of the different forms of it and the price

of things that have gone up and down and the popularity now all of a sudden is out of this world,

just all of a sudden, past couple years when it's been sitting there the whole time. Two-part question,

one is good ol' monohydrate the best or is HCL or any of these other forms right on par,

what your thoughts there. And two, when did it occur that it just all of a sudden everybody knows

now all of the benefits whereas before it was just for muscle and strength and that's really all

it was known for, water retention because that's like essentially that's what was always talked

about amongst everybody. It's going to make me stronger, it's going to make me bigger and it's

going to hold water. Yeah, by the way, I'm a fellow in the ISS and the International Society

Sports Nutrition and I have my fellowship there and it's very prestigious and I'm thankful, but

we worked on really like a potent textbook around sports nutrition and I got to be one of the

authors around 2010 and at that time I was writing of the neurological cognitive enhancing

benefits of creatine really. At that time there was only some preclinicals which means animal data,

maybe some in vitro data and I took so much heat over that you can't even imagine like how

much of a beating I took just talking about the theoretical benefits well beyond muscle of creatine.

I mentioned bone, fertility, eyesight, you know brain function and potentially being a tool that

we will tap into in the future around traumatic brain injury. I was saying that over 15 years ago

and I took so much heat from the academic community and I honestly forgot all about that until

right now. So this is a little bit of vindication. I was just saying it's a little bit of

vindication. It is incredible as I said everyone should be on it. Yeah and it is not just strength

and power and what we've come to think of as a bodybuilder or athletes ingredient like a sprinters

ingredient. It is for everyone, it is for grandma, it is for everyone because it is protecting muscle

loss as we age that sarcopenia. It is protecting your DNA, it is protecting against cancer,

protecting your brain, protecting your eyesight. Like I said, fertility, all these bones,

it's powerful like for your full body and how well you're aging. I do believe everyone, everyone

should be taking at least three grams a day of creativine, 100% period the end. So there is

over a thousand published studies now. This is another place that I took a beating when I was

working clinically. I tried to put all my patients in a nursing home on creatine because of

muscle mass loss as I'm talking about with sarcopenia as well as cakexia with those just not

getting enough protein. We had pressure ulcers from those that were not being turned or moving

enough and were laying in bed. Literally the skin and muscle breaks down and can become

necrotic and infected and they can just die of just their muscle breaking down.

And I tried to put them all on creatine and my rounding physician, the house physician

said, there's no good studies on supplements. And I was like, buddy, there is 500 plus

studies at that time. Now there's over a thousand. And I was like most of the medications you're

putting them on have one or two studies and quite often they've been manipulated with many rounds

to show minor positive benefit enough to push it through the FDA. And you're telling me that's

better data than the 500 plus studies that we have on creatine. And this is safe and I could literally

prevent the decline of these people dramatically. And that was one of the reasons I ended up

getting out of my clinical practice and just going into supplements entirely. I was so frustrated

at trying to make an impact on that level. Yeah, it felt like I was just constantly

working against intuition or knowledge or innovation. It's just so frustrating. Yeah,

it's like a barricade. So I believe fully in creatine, I believe everyone should be taking

creatine. Everyone should be taking at least three grams, maybe up to five grams a day. Again,

cognitive benefits, maybe up to 20 grams, maybe GAA at a couple grams plus three grams of creatine

could be the easier, the better way. You do have to actually look at and Cregatine has these other

compounds in it. With GAA, you can raise levels of homocysteine. So this formula Cregatine that

I know Chris Geffen has has the B12 and folate in it to actually offset that. So that's really

important to keep homocysteine levels in check. And they've actually shown with the data that homocysteine

levels were lower with supplementation as a result. So that's ideal. What about the form to

creatine? Yeah. So creatine monohydrate is easiest to say and most everyone that's a fellow in the

ISSN or people that I know would say creatine monohydrate, that's the gold standard, that's the one

that everyone uses. It's the best price. Be careful what you're buying. I've come out with a

form called the purist creatine that's actually purer than the well-known German creatine.

It's the purist one on the market. Is that clear? That is that is a brand that's well-known,

but I have one that's called purist that actually exceeds that one. Those are both great creatines

though, but there is a lot of creatine monohydrate on the market that has an impurity called DCD

in it. And we're bringing light to some of these toxins that are present in the creatine.

So I would be careful and only by the highest quality creatine that you can. As far as creatine HCl

and creatine mallet or creatine citrator, all these different forms that have been on the market,

there's probably been 30 former. Euredion ethylester. There's vanilla,

orealane, and hidris. There is a lot of creatines on the market.

You're just overpaying. Yeah, I believe. It's really just creatine has good bioavailability,

great conversion to creatine phosphate. So I don't think there's additional benefits

in dispending more money on your creatine. One thing I will say is creatine monohydrate does not

have good solubility. So what I would do is actually take the teaspoon of creatine.

Throw it in your mouth, then kick it back with some water, some juice, some milk,

your protein shake, whatever, as a way to ensure that you're getting it all. I think that's

the smartest way to do it. Otherwise, if you're just putting it in your shaker cup or

your pre-workout or those kinds of things, it can end up being something that settles to the bottom

of the cup and you may never drink it. So that would be the smartest thing to do.

What about the water retention myth that everybody is so fearful of that always wants to bring up?

And I think that it's gotten better over the years because before that was like the biggest

fear with it was the GI and then the water retention. So tell me, is that I think a little bit,

the higher the body fat and so women tend to carry more body fat potentially than men.

Just for maintaining fertility and all the things. Men like maybe an ideal might be

somewhere like 12 to 20% body fat for women, it's going to be 18 to 26% or something like that.

They're a little bit higher in body fat. The more body fat you have, there is a little bit more

water retention that's visible. This is very small. It might be two, three pounds if you're fully

saturated. Some of the other weight that you're maintaining is actually intramuscular.

There may be a little bit of water weight retention. What we've found through the years is that

dividing your doses seems to resolve that dramatically. So if you're taking, you want to take 10 grams

a day, just take three grams, three times a day, or if you want to take five grams, take one and

a half grams three times a day or something like that, and we tend to see that results. I was

like, okay, all right. So my shift, I would say, really, when I met Dr. Dave Rabin, I went from

being so focused on fitness and strength and nutrition and muscle, which is all important,

obviously, but that's only one piece of the puzzle, really, because for me, what I've gathered

over time is, and I always talk about this now as a mind and body connection, and you have to have

them both. Now, I start from a, like, take it like a top and then I branch it down. So I start with

spirituality and go then to neurological ends, like, nutrition training. I know some people don't

want to hear that. I don't care. That's my, that's my belief. We'll just focus today on the,

the neurological and then the physical side of things. How important do you feel it is to have

those both dialed in? Do you think people are so focused on the physical side with the supplements

especially that we're taking that they kind of bypass the importance and the understanding that

if you're misaligned up here, you're never going to be aligned over here and vice versa. But I

think the amount of understanding that needs to be said on being good neurologically and

having a balance between your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system, understanding that

there's trauma as there that linger and how much of a drastic effect that has on all of our blood

panels, the stress, the anxiety. I don't care how good we train and how we eat and how much

creatine and supplement we take if this is off. I mean, what's your thoughts? Because what I

am finding is you just never going to be aligned. Absolutely. One, I had read a study not too long ago

that one use of any type of psychedelic in any environment in any dose, one use or more was

associated with a one third reduction in all cause mortality. Wow. And I believe that is because

of trauma and stress and these things that are stored in the body, that are stored in your operating

system, stored in your belief system, your ego of how you play out the routines that you're going

through day to day. It's only in these kind of highly neuroplastic environments that we can rewrite

that code that we can go into the operating system like Neo and to change that those lines of

code and say that no longer serves me anymore. Otherwise, the ego is very good at justifying your

trauma, creating identity around that trauma where you believe that is who you are. And that's

where powerful dissociatives like a ketamine, for example, that can actually pull you apart from your

identity where you can actually see yourself as a spirit, if you will, or a soul, if you will,

or something like that apart from this created identity. If you're not your name, you're not your

job, you're not all these things, those are identities. And these are routines that we've created

on who we are while we've been experiencing ourself on this planet. When you see yourself apart

from that, then you can say, whoa, I'm safe. I am someone outside of that identity.

And then once you see that, once you tease that out, then you can again rewrite that code and

potentially delete that code and say that line of code that doesn't work. I've got a lot of

deleting. I need a brother like a lot. So most people do. And so you know, that's why we do see

the alcohol use and other things like that just because people are overwhelmed, overstressed.

And you know, maybe it's not alcohol, but it's Xanax. Maybe it's not alcohol or Xanax, but it's

create them. Or you know, whatever it is, like people are always trying to figure out a way to

kind of escape their thoughts and these routines that are playing out, especially for those of us,

I had pretty severe depression, like ruminating thoughts. Like I would tend to like dwell on things

for weeks and weeks and just stay in circles. And you know, those are, those are definitely

counterproductive to your to your health and well-being. And so 100%. We're seeing, as you mentioned,

that mind muscle connection or the gut brain axis, or we're hearing about the brain in all kinds

of ways. And certainly athletes are trying to tap into neutropics and, you know, cognitive

enhancement and all these kinds of things now because, yes, like parasantine, for example,

which we can talk about where athletes are talking about things slowing down. And you know,

being in a flow state and being tapped in, and how much easier life athletics performance can be

when you're in these flow states. And you mentioned sympathetic parasympathetic, which is your

autonomic nervous system. This is kind of that yin and yang, if you will, that balance that we

need where, yes, we need to be in sympathetic some of the time, which is fight flight or freeze,

where we're stimulated. You know, and think of like dopamine more on that side of things where it's

like the the get stuff done neurotransmitter. But then you have like, you know, more on the other

side, the parasympathetic, which is more like GABA and some of these neurotransmitters where

you're more relaxed, which is, you know, like rest and digest, for example, like where you're

recovering. And then I believe flow state is this combination of the two where you're stimulated,

but things are coming easily. Like this one composer talked about the phantom hand,

whereas like he was like looking at his hand, observing his hand, like not even knowing what it

was doing, because it was just reacting in real time to the orchestration. Yeah. You know, or like a

Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, again, where things get quiet, things slow down, things become easier.

It's like you're again, going back to Neo when when he's just kind of like smiling and he's like,

you know, moving his body around the bullets. And it's like no problem. And it's like, you know,

he's kind of like flicking the bullets out of the air. And he's like, oh, this is like nothing.

He's in like kind of the ultimate ultimate flow state. Yeah. And so that would be

how I would discuss that. But certainly we're seeing

neutropics in general go through the roof. There's a lot of similar to

Psalms and prohormones, as we've discussed, and we can get into peptides and certainly get into

Paris, Anthony. But there's a lot of neutropic sites that are selling research compounds that are

not well researched. Some of them are some of them are not. Some of them are very new compounds that

are experimental compounds that may have some acute benefits. But we're not sure what the long-term

benefits are. We don't know what the polypharmacy effects are where they're being combined that like

no one studied this crazy research compound and this crazy research compound and this crazy

research compound, all, you know, stacked. That's obviously very understudied. And so we don't know

what the net effect of some of these things are that people are just stacking. Yeah. There's a lot

of people taking a lot of different things and it's risky. I used to be that way and I won't touch

things so without years and years of data because I get that fear unfortunately and fortunately

in like that type one where I never shut off. So when I'm good, I'm great. But when I'm stressed

and anxiety-filled, I am like rock bottom because I can't get out of my own way. In fact, on the way,

the drive here I was doing like a morning prayer and I was just asking for help to just like

stop letting anxieties and stresses dominate my bad days. Because like I said, when I'm on,

like when you're like my type, you're on. But when you're bad, it's bad. And I used to use

marijuana to calm, but then it got to the point where it was causing me more stress because it was

over years and years I became to be panicky with it and it was counterproductive.

And I'm trying now to use prayer to calm and like actually took a step back and do like gaming

because I never do it and I want to at night. And that's actually provided me relief even last night

when I was worried about, oh, am I going to be late tomorrow to this? And I've got such a stack

day and I sat there and played for an hour dude and I passed out and I was happy as could be.

But I think finding something that can do that for you to put you in that state is important.

That's kind of like the Apollo here. We both were that that helps me stimulate my vagus nerve.

And I want to talk to you and I'm going to pull these out now because I look for as you do

companies that are smaller, newer, innovative and we, you know, where I'm going because these

are our friends here that we both, but these are Tonum's products and I want to talk to you

about them because I found them in November at Utamonia and they said, oh, we know Sean and Sean

and I said, okay, well, legitimacy. I'm sold because if Sean's backing it, I'm going to be

introduced to it and have interest in it. Now, these two neuro and modus I want to talk to you

about because you brought up parazanthene and I know parazanthene is one of the

bigger ingredients in the neuro product. I'm more drawn to the neuro for the personal side

and the modus for the client side because I don't, I'm not really focused on weight loss right now,

but I know and you know how many people struggle with weight loss and GLP1 use,

which I want to get into with you too when we get to the peptides. But I want to start with the

neuro side in this product in particular because the alpha GPC is the one that interests me

and the parazanthene. There's great in seven ingredients in here, but I want to talk to you

specifically about those two, especially since you brought up the parazanthene.

Tell me about that, how it helps for focus. What, what, for, so parazanthene is one of the three

metabolites of caffeine. When you consume caffeine, your body breaks it down into de-methylates it

into 103 compounds, the ophthalene, theobromine and parazanthene. Parazanthene, we used to talk about

as the metabolite of caffeine, but said better, caffeine is the dirty precursor to parazanthene.

Parazanthene is the active that we really want. Caffeine and in particular, the ophthalene are

responsible for a lot of the side effects we don't want. So getting rid of caffeine and, or at least

minimizing it as much as you can, I mean, we've shown with data that anything after noon with

caffeine, any level has been shown to impair sleep. So this is where switching to parazanthene.

You'll see increased neuroplasticity, meaning like youthfulness of the brain and a kind of

regeneration and protection of neurons, the brain cells. You'll see increased nitric oxide to

the brain, blood flow. You'll see increased glutathione and catalyse the master antioxidant

and decreased oxidative stress as a result. Decreased beta amyloid plaque, which is associated

with Alzheimer's, increased acetylcholine dopamine serotonin. What are all the ways we know that

the brain ages? Increased oxidation, decreased glutathione, decreased nitric oxide, increased

beta amyloid plaque. You know, all of these things decreased dopamine. Those are all

neurodegeneration and aging of the brain. Literally, parazanthene is reversing the aging.

And so not only is it acutely neutropic, meaning we've shown in many studies in the one use,

like we showed with athletes in a 10k race where they took a multitasking test before and after

the race, that they performed better after they raised, after they were exhausted because of

parazanthene. They had 11% decreased mental errors, whereas the caffeine group had 23% increase in

mental errors. So literally parazanthene is the flow and caffeine is the frazzle. And this is where

they're just radically different. They're not the same at all. And so we're seeing both that

acute neutropic as well as that neuroprotective effect. Then we actually see the reinforcement

of this idea of being neuroprotective and enhancing the brain in an e-gaming study we did

where we saw the e-gaming athletes over the course of six weeks and playing for two hours

per session that not only was there an acute time effect where with each gaming session,

we saw that they improved in resistance to fatigue, like literally where at two hours,

they were basically playing at the same level. They were at hour zero, whereas with nothing,

when they took nothing, they had a steep drop off at hour one, at hour two.

And literally at six weeks, we saw basically they stayed the same across two hours.

And so there was a time effect acutely, meaning with each session, but there was a time effect across

the six weeks too, where they seem to be getting better and better and better with continued use.

With caffeine, we see a negative time effect where you get worse and worse and worse with continued use.

So this is just a night and day difference in how perazantine works. We've been obviously

very excited about it. And I've talked to you about update, which is one brand that I've been

involved with. And there's a celebrity that's probably one of the top five most well-known

human beings on the planet that is coming on board with update. And it's launching into the

rebrand is launching into Walmart and a lot of other places. There's also another

ring called Life Sider X that has apple cider vinegar and perazantine that's quite delicious as

well. So perazantine is certainly having its moment right now. There's also if you like pouches,

there's these oral pouches similar to like the idea of these tobacco or nicotine pouches,

like Zen, there's one called ultra that has perazantine in it. But alpha GPC is another

neutrophic that you mentioned in particular, our studied version called Genius Pure.

Yeah. Yeah. And we showed that with the 330 milligram dose that we doubled focus literally

2x to focus. So that is a huge deal. That number is a staggering number to improve productivity

and focus to that degree from just one nutrient. And certainly when you have alpha GPC

and perazantine together, that is the most potent thing I know of that you can

you can have for for focus and flow. So the perazantine because I saw your face when we brought

that up. So I know it's a big deal to you. Let's just make this very simple because you've covered

all of the good science part of it. Essentially it's the good part of caffeine. Yeah. Okay. And

you can take that later in the day without losing sleep or getting jittery or any of that. It's not

going to have that kind of effect on you, right? It typically lasts about three hours. Maybe three

and a half hours, four hours, absolute max. People that are working out in the evening get great

sleep. We've actually shown improved the HRVs. Whereas with caffeine as I mentioned,

like even at 2 p.m., it worsens your sleep at 10 or 11. So let alone working out on a pre workout

in the evening with 400 milligrams of caffeine and all this other stuff like it will jack you up.

So absolutely, much cleaner, better sleep. You don't have the bio individuality. We have with

caffeine, there's fast and slow metabolizers where the fast metabolizers can have like an hour

and a half half life, the slow metabolizers, which is 60% of the population, the majority of us

can have up to 10 and a half hour half life, where it's literally taking days to get that caffeine

out of your system. I wish I could make my coffee and just pull a pair of zanthine and no caffeine

and shit. So I got to stop. I could be calf coffee, use the Swiss water method, not some chemical

method. I get a Swiss water, you know, mold-free decaf. I believe life boost, purity. Yeah,

there's some good coffees out there that you could find. But those would be the ideal way to do it

and just take a pair of zanthine and capsule gummy, oral pouch, drink, you know, whatever.

Okay, so because I think that this product is the best one that I've seen for neuro products,

and I haven't seen millions of them, but I swear by this one, a couple of the other ingredients

in here that I know that I like that I'm curious on the alpha-lipoic acid. And then this berberine

is a berberine phospholipid. So what are your thoughts on those? Because I mean,

touring very well aware of the milk thistle, this is a better form of milk thistle in here too,

from what I understand. And then niacin is nicotinamide. I want to get into that too, but alpha-lipoic

acid, tell me about that one a little bit. It is an antioxidant that is a very, one of the most

powerful antioxidants, but it's also associated with regulation of blood sugar. So it's in there

along with some of these other compounds that help to regulate blood glucose, keep insulin

and blood glucose low, which keeps growth hormone, GLP1, etc., higher. So that's the thought process.

Tonum has done some very powerful research at Duke comparing the modus product to GLP1s.

And what they saw is very similar results, but the dramatic difference was actually in

maintaining muscle mass. And most of the weight loss was coming from fat mass, whereas with the

GLP1s, they were seeing most of the weight loss be bone and muscle, which is definitely not ideal.

Actually, a very small percentage was actually from fat. It's dangerous. I don't think people

realize when they're doing this, what goes along with the GLP1 use and why alternative methods

are much better. But you know how it is? Everybody wants stuff right now. And they want it down. They

want it fast. And oftentimes they don't care how they get it or what the side effects are going to

be. That was always my problem with bodybuilders. They never thought about tomorrow. It was like,

we want to run these cycles. We want to get big. And we don't care what's going to happen down

the road. That's why when I was looking at this and when I was getting the explanation on

the weight loss side of it and how it was preserving muscle, with the GLP1s, one of the things

that I've sat in on that most people have the biggest problem with is how do we eat on this?

We can't even eat because I mean, all you're really doing is shutting your brain off from being

hungry, right? Well, and gastric motility. And yeah, like you're talking about it, for some people,

it can be pretty severe constipation and learn burn and just food essentially is not moving through

the gut, especially a higher doses. Well, and then big weight gain when you stop taking it.

You know what's happening. You're gaining all the way back and sometimes more than what some

logs more. Yeah. Which is really bad. There's signaling. There's processes where your body feels like

it's been starving. And then they don't oddly, they don't recommend that you would titrate down

off a GLP1. Should it take it forever? People just stop. Yeah. When they're taking like the

highest doses and then they just stop and then they have horrible side effects, which is obviously

not ideal. And so having a product like modus that is natural that's easy to take that doesn't have

the habituation adaptation, you know, side effects. And by the way, that that burbring is a fight

asome. And it's very bioavailable that they're switching to my version of burbring called dihydro

burbring, which is exciting. But honestly, in this form, obviously it's performing head-to-head

pretty well with GLP1s. And again, a lot better in some ways in terms of protecting muscle and

bone and almost all the weight loss being from fat. But that's going to dihydro burbring is even

more exciting. That's a metabolite of burbring. We don't see any GI distress. We see 5 to 20 times

the bioavailability. We see it last twice as long in the plasma than regular burbring. So it's just

going to take modus up another couple of notches and we also see with burbring and dihydro burbring

that they're a positive, hormetic stress on the mitochondria. So by working on this AMPK pathway,

it's enhancing the number of and the activity of the mitochondria through stress. And so that can

be powerfully anti-aging for anyone. This is like one of the ways that metformin works. And

metformin was a great diabetic drug. But we also saw people that were 8% body fat,

that had been anti-aging using metformin. And so it's the same idea that we keep insulin low,

we keep blood glucose low, we keep ketones higher, growth hormone, IGF1, growth factors,

autophagy. All these things are much higher when we suppress insulin and blood glucose,

along with inflammation being lower. And that's what we see on burbring and dihydro burbring we see

improved lipids, triglycerides, inflammation as well to go with that lower blood glucose.

When you talk about triglycerides and everything like lower cholesterol, that's heart health,

I mean cardiovascular health. So there's multitudes of benefits here that we're looking at. That's why

when I when I saw this and I was like reading over the literature and the makeup and the compounds,

I just kept going holy shit, like this was done well. I mean very well because you know this,

I see a lot of the same types of products out there that kind of pair it off each other,

and they'll be one degree and different a little bit higher dose here or there. And there's just

not a lot of differentiation and definitely not a lot of money spent on proper studies.

The nicotinamide, niacin is nicotinamide. What does that mean?

It's a no flush form and niacin, niconic acid would be the the full flush version of niacinamide

or nicotinamide as an amide bound niacin that is going to one B vitamin B five enhance your

deficiency in potentially nicotinic acid, but it also leads to increased sorry B3,

increase NAD levels as well. So this is where we're getting more energy and that was the reason

there, including it is is to increase energy production because around weight loss can be

cellular fatigue. Yeah, oh yeah. So you have the burberine enhancing mitochondrial biogenesis,

increasing the number of mitochondria, but you also have that a pretty potent dose of niacinamide,

nicotinamide to increase NAD production, which is cellular energy. And what was wild was

as they were making the neuro product and then found the weight loss benefits through some of the

well, what I love about them is I've been in the industry a long time, 25 years probably,

and I see so many companies I mean that have been around 20 plus years that won't spend

$50,000 on a study. I know they spent millions. I know, that's why millions and you know,

are they studied at not just some random dook university. Yeah, that's why it was you could,

if you've been around long enough, you know, like you do, I don't know maybe we're to the near

of the extent that you do, but I do know a great deal and I know what people do in the shortcuts they

take and the money they spend and where it goes. And most of it's on tricky marketing. It's certainly

not on this. And that's why I said, okay, count me in, I just gave them my flagship 2026, like this

is my company of the year. I just put it out yesterday online. That's like where I'm at with it.

And I'm, I'm super excited. I'm, I'm glad that I met them. But like I said, when I heard your name

involved, that's when I continued the conversation was like, okay, all right, let's roll. Let's do

this. So okay, you know what? I want to ask you about something I wasn't planning on, but because

we just touched on it with this, you talked about NAD. Now I've been talking about NAD, a good

bit here recently, because there seems there's not an understanding with the NAD supplements on what

works and what doesn't. A lot of people are have low last, I would say two, maybe three years,

flooded themselves with NAD supplements, NAD IVs. It's just one of those trends where everybody's

kind of on to it and pushing it. I'm more of and I've talked to many experts of the precursors,

the NMN, especially NR, the NAD supplementation itself from what I understand doesn't really

penetrate the cell if you're taking straight NAD because it's too large. NMN is the easiest to get

in there because NR actually converts to NMN and then it, you know, increases our NAD levels.

So what you're thinking there is just a prevalent problem and do more people need to be taken NMN

or what's what's the deal? Yes. NAD IVs probably do little to nothing.

Exactly. NAD IVs probably do little to nothing. They actually may cause more inflammation than

actually do positive benefit, right? There is very little of that NAD that will get in the cell.

To that point, because you have to get into the salvage pathway and all of this when we talk about

NAD. So yes, I do believe NMN is better than NR and a liposomal NMN or maybe there is a new

form called NMNH that could be potentially better. There's almost no data on it. So take caution

on that. That's a maybe, but like a liposomal NMN or some kind of protected form of NMN maybe

the best form, but also delivering it with nicotinic acid niacin would be ideal to have both of those

delivered. And then lastly, add in NADAs inhibitor, which is also called CD38. The enzyme that breaks

down NAD. Yep. So this is where all the polyphenols are actually very exciting. So things like

apigenin, facetin, quercetin, EGCG, resveratrol, terastil beam, you know, these things like that.

And it seems like facetin may be the most potent at doing this. So that would be kind of an

ultimate stack and then adding some other ingredients, like ones that are brought to the market,

like ergo thining, which is a potent mitochondrial antioxidant and mitochondrial enhancer.

And maybe like a coq10 in particular ubiquinol and then a pqq. Now you've got the ultimate mitochondrial

formulas. A liposomal NMN facetin, the pqq, the coq10 and ergo thining and high dose like 50 plus

milligrams. My have spoken could deal with the wonder field, Dr. Andrew Salvesman, I interviewed and

he kind of educated me on the NAD NMN side of things. And they were, that's where I learned about

CD38 too, because I didn't know anything about any of that at all. And they have their younger

product that addresses CD38 because you brought up resveratrol. I'm off the top of my head. I know

that's in there, but I think people don't understand how much we actually lose as we get older in

that CD38 is a prevalent issue and has to be addressed. You can't just take anything without

addressing that that is NAD related, right? Yeah, it's a double whammy where we produce less NAD

as we age and then we break NAD down faster as we are so that's the double whammy. So it certainly

makes sense to try and enhance NAD levels directly and then inhibit the breakdown of NAD. And just

stress, alcohol, poor sleep, bad lighting, junk lighting, you know, you can go down the line of

all the reasons why we are making less NAD and breaking it down faster. Let's discuss peptides.

Now I told you I started researching them. It was 2011. There was literally, I believe it was

GHRP 2 and 6, CJC 1295, Cermarell and Hexarell and Melana Tantu. And that was about it that you could

buy. There was really nothing else that was really being sold on underground markets. I'm probably

leaving out a couple, but that was about it. And I've watched it evolve now into thousands and

gone insane and now more obviously everybody's into it. Everybody wants to learn about it.

What I'm curious, what are some of your favorites that you lean towards? I'm going to give you a

couple of mine. KPV is one of my favorites. MOTC is one of my favorites. And I'm sure you can

understand why on both of those. I tend, of course, everybody in their mom wants to talk about BPC 157

and GLP ones. Now BPC rightfully so obviously for multitudes of reasons, I'll let you get into.

But GHKC use another one of my favorites because I'm a longevity skin care guy. Yeah,

but those are some of my favorites. IPamoralin is and that's when I left out is probably the

I don't know. I would say old reliable because it does a little bit of everything. I like that one

as well. But those are for me, those are my favorites. I look more on the cellular side,

more of the longevity side, more of the skin side and then the healing and all of that. And then

SS31 because it's the heart. For you, what are some of your favorites and why and how do you

how do you feel about their place now and moving forward? I think they're absolutely profound in

terms of their effects. I think there's no going back. What's frustrating right now is many of them

are getting pulled off these sites. There was a 150 page document that went out from the FDA

and Big Pharma to most of these companies that are selling research peptides certainly around

the GLP ones, which are medications. But there is a changing of the law that's happening where peptides

initially weren't allowed to be patented because they're naturally occurring compounds in the body

think of BPC in the gut or even the old school ones like GH or IG or sorry of insulin

that are peptides that are naturally occurring. You can't patent them. Are they sold by Big Pharma?

Yes, but you know, maybe it's in a modified form. Maybe it's because of the brand and it's in a

auto injector syringe or you know, something like that. But that's changing really because these

things are so potent, Big Pharma's put pressure on the FDA to change this and now they will be

able to be patented and they are taking them away from these research sites in particular.

So not only are the GLP ones getting removed, but you're also seeing potentially a lot of the other

compounds may get removed and are going to be behind a prescription wall or any that you know of

that you would almost all of them. Really, yes, they're, it's being hotly discussed right now.

Certainly the most effective ones that you're mentioning are the ones that they care about. So

going to the the stacks that I would mention right now BPC 157 as you mentioned is just I can't even

tell you I'm probably in the hundreds now over the last 10 years of people that told me they were

going to have surgery, but then didn't need surgery because of BPC. I agree. Tendon damage,

ligament damage, bone damage, muscle damage. I've seen discs damage. Yeah, it's wild like how

quickly people are healing with BPC. So clearly, there's interest there before you go BPC

methods of delivery when we talk about those because I've been using a cream honestly that I love

and it's a BPC TV 500 cream. Discuss the capsules like oral form versus injecting site injection.

Yeah, capsule think is not systemic. I think largely it is peptides are smaller proteins that are

very prone to be broken down by the the stomach and certainly the liver and you're just

for the most part you need to inject these now when we say injection we're talking about subcutaneous

injection which is a tiny insulin needle which is in your body fat which he feels like nothing.

So for those of you that are that are needle phobic we're not talking about I am which is

intramuscular we're not talking about which is a big gauge needle and much deeper and much more

painful like a testosterone shot or something like that and we're not talking about certainly IV

where we're going intravenous and they need to know how to put it in the blood concerns or whatever

this is very easy to do and yes you have to add bacteriostatic water to hydrate the peptide powder

that's in the little vial and and draw it up and then inject it but this oral capsule I believe

is just working more at a local level on the stomach so if there are gut issues I do believe oral

BPC 157 can be very helpful KPV could be helpful TB 500 could be helpful in the TB for fragments I

think it is yeah that can be orally active to some degree and there may be some systemic benefits

but I believe most of it is is working at the gut that if you want the true systemic benefit then

you're going to need to inject now as far as site specific this gets argued a lot but

I will say anecdotally everyone I've talked to it seems to help to some degree it's certainly

not going to hurt if you're injecting in the area that there's been some kind of trauma harm

damage that we want to repair it does seem maybe there's a slightly better benefit to injecting

in that area versus just injecting into like you know your stomach fat for example for sure

so what else I cut you up there because I wanted I needed your answers there what else are you

looking at that you are really the ones you mentioned like BPC 157 TB 500 KPV and GHKCU which is like

the glow stack or the closed stack like those are all very healing peptides and you know

Ben Greenfield used to call the Wolverine stack with a TB 500 BPC those are very powerful

and then certainly the GH to create a dogs as you mentioned like Tessamorla as my

Fibromorla in CJC no DAC you know those are are very helpful too you know growth hormone is going to be

and especially these ones because they're keeping up pulsatile growth hormone which is actually

better than like directly injecting growth hormone which is not pulsatile it's just a big

bolus of growth hormone whereas your pituitary releases growth hormone about six times a day so

you actually want this rhythm because all of these hormones and peptides are and neurotransmitters

are all tied into like this undulating circadian rhythm of your body and having things be more

pulsatile is ideal behind growth hormone is growth hormone releasing hormone and so like working

on that level allows your body to produce more but in a natural way so all that to say that

that's that's a better way of of doing growth hormone yeah Tessamorla is one of my favorites

because of the ability to lose fat and maintain muscle and even build upon the muscle that's

like a decomposition in a bottle type of thing I look at it as if you're eating right you know with

it of all the DLP ones like semi-glutide you know which monjaro and and ozimpic and then

tersepatide which is the second generation red or trutide smokes everything it is my insane

that one is incredible but it's right now it's gone from almost all the sites incredible

compound I have seen tremendous benefits from myself and other people I've worked with

whether you're lean or overweight you'll see benefits with redda if you're already lean

then I would use kind of more micro dosing level and you'll see like that metabolic advantage

because it's working on three mechanism levels it's working on yes GLP one but also working on

GIP and then glucagon and glucagon is kind of the the new one and it just keeps your blood sugar

super stable all day long it helps maintain muscle mass whereas the other GLP ones as we talked about

can be terrible when it comes to muscle mass and that's going to improve inflammation healing

in general you know give you that metabolic advantage similar to like when you're 18 20 years old

and the way you could eat so at least on the micro dosing level for longevity we're seeing a lot of

people love redda and then certainly if you're overweight but maybe four to six milligrams the

12 milligram in the study is way too much the side effects increased dramatically so I don't think

you really need to go above four milligrams a week or is not always right next up in terms of

peptides let me think here I forgot to my other two okay tell me the length and c-max okay great

let's go cognitive peptides yeah so c-max especially the n acetyl c-max amydate is actually the

kind of the acetylated versions of c-max and c-lank are actually a little bit better in terms of

bioavailability these are nasal sprays super easy and c-max is honestly as experiential as

parazantine for me like it is awesome I feel like a huge cognitive lift I feel much sharper so

lank is almost like kind of your anxiolytic like it really reduces anxiety like helps you feel

like more eddies relax this is going to be something like a thienine or rodeola or maybe like a

magnolia bark or you know something like that herbally like where you just feel like a kind of wave

of relaxation and ease and then of course some people love combining the two because that is

flow state where you have cognitive enhancement and a relaxation this is just like how all the studies

that have shown caffeine paired with the thienine are very powerful together because it smooths out

the negative side effects of caffeine I don't know that c-max needs like smoothing out per se but

the flow state as we mentioned is kind of that relaxed versus stimulated and really the two

works so well together there are other peptides that are neutropic peptides like cerebrolycin

dihexa I mean there's there's a number of them that are probably forget a penny along like

there's some really good ones but it I would say the most experiential like the best ones are

those two yeah in particular if you use that the anacetyl form and the energy yeah they seem

key they seem to have great synergy when you're talking nasal sprays one benefit that you can have

as one you should know how much the concentration is because you could just get a bottle from someone

and it could be a tenth of the concentration of someone else's due it's good if you clean or rinse

your nasal passages first because for the spray to adhere and then pass through the nasal membrane

to these vascular tissue and nose it's ideal if you're getting rid of kind of excess mucus or

you know what have you so like doing like a saline rinse right before and then maybe you know

giving it 10 minutes and then doing the nasal spray you're actually going to maximize it more

and be careful if you have 10 or 15 nasal sprays from some peptide company one a lot of these

peptides will not work intranasal they're a lot of them being sold but they're too big of peptides

to actually cross intranasally so salink and smacks do but just be careful and you know trying to

do too many peptides or too many sprays like melana tan actually does work yeah intranasally I'd

love that one especially melana tan 2 I had the worst period was on people at multiple times some

people have nausea some people don't but it just it's it seems bio individual so if you do have

nausea with melana tan melana tan 2 does have some like thermogenic benefits that are kind of like

along with the tanning you can like lose a little bit of fat so if you can use it melana tan 2 if

you can't go melana tan also and you explain a little bit on how to use the nasal sprays for

people that are wondering like because I I've had that question now this is a great question yeah

this is true with like you know intranasal ketamine this is true with like some of these other

research peptides that are coming out to the market that are compounding pharmacies using like

PET to I believe maybe there is even like a test offend scene and like some other things that are

that are more like research drug level compounds that are being delivered intranasally

so one clean the nasal passages that's ideal two don't stick the whole thing up your nose you're

going to get like that post nasal drip it's going to go behind your sinuses and then just drip

into your throat and you're getting very little benefit from that literally just barely have it

at the opening of your nose the tip of the comb if you will and then make sure that you're pulling

down as in a in a pretty firm way so you're getting a full spray if you kind of pull down slowly

or not as firmly like you won't get as a good as spray so don't go too deep make sure you're pulling

down firmly and then don't breathe in I think it's like a natural idea to like like when you do

it I think everyone does that you're pulling it back again like to your getting that post nasal

drip just don't breathe for a second let it kind of coat the nasal passages and hit that vascular

tissue and and that's ideal okay all right yeah because I mean that's a it is different and they

can't explain how to do it on research sites because the minute they start doing that it's

it's over right right soon as somebody sees it they're shut down because of research I think a

lot of people don't understand that those research sites they're they can't market it and they

can't tell you what to do or how to do it then it's not research anymore I mean that's why it says

not for human consumption and so many people don't understand yeah these sites aren't supposed to

say anything about the ingredient but then you'll see some of these sites saying all the

benefits and they get shut down yeah and that's clearly no longer for research use only that's

what are you oh means yeah research use only if you see that term on these peptide sites that's

what that means yeah um yes and then also be wary of say you may oh so motsie I'm a huge fan

of yeah motsie especially if you're using redda like that's the ultimate combination that reddit

true tide um you'll keep your your mitochondrial function up you'll keep your cellular energy up but

actually works like via that amp K like ormetic stress as well um that is a really powerful one

and as you mentioned SS 31 really powerful as well those are like I think we've mentioned all the

ones that I would definitely put towards the top of my list there's some other ones that are

interesting along the lines of NAD and anti-aging 5 amino 1MQ yeah fat loss but also increasing NM

and T and NAD levels really compelling that one is actually effective orally in the right dose

and then there are some ones if you dose high enough the SLU people or BAM 15 that are exercise

mimetics thermogenics will slip was always told to be used at a really really small

source load and it does nothing does nothing they've been selling at it like orally at 50 micro grams

500 my year grams doesn't we're seeing that 50 milligrams or 100 milligrams I wouldn't go above

100 there are some people playing with mega mega doses but 100 is I think where I'd max out

but 50 milligrams so you're talking about literally a thousand x difference

in the dose here so saying no one was seeing benefit in the microgram levels

so yes so SLU PP332 very potent for fat loss and I like what you exercise thermogenesis combo

with BAM 15 is mean if as long as you're getting the right dose that's another one that I would say

about 50 milligrams so 50 milligrams for each that is if that is a really awesome combination

yeah it really is and a lot of these have multi benefits you know I mean like motc for example

multi beneficial I like was drawn to SS 31 because I had a low ejection fraction issue and I think

that people don't know or don't understand like that that can help with potential heart failure

or lowering of eject it can raise your ejection fraction make your heart pump more efficiently

stronger I do question then moving forward since we're talking about heart and everything so

what's your opinion on SGLT2 inhibitors like Giardians do you have any opinion or thought on those

because a lot of the people in my realm disagree on a lot but they all agree on Giardians

and I'm taking Giardians for specific need and I noticed though too it's inhibited some of the

things for me I'm urinating frequently and I'm pissing out glucose and what it's done I already

had low potassium from all of the training and not eating enough and now I've noticed like when I

started to have a funky heart palpitations I just go slam potassium it stops because and I'm

going to transition into electrolyte importance but I am curious as your thought on these medications

it is a new frontier this pathway that you're talking about is while some of the pathways like

with a metformin or insulin are kind of capturing blood glucose after it's happened SGL2 inhibitors

are preventing the absorption of glucose in the first place and literally just as you said

pushing it through urinary pathway so for anti-aging there's been some excitement around that

because it does seem like while we all talk about like hypoglycemia and oh my blood sugar is

crashing it does seem like especially when we look at ketogenic models lifetime models and animals

and things like that the lower the blood sugar the better where we're just not seeing that like

oh it needs to be in this kind of normal glycemic range I mean obviously you don't want it to be

like below like 25 30 or something like that right I'm saying that like where the body can

regulate and make its own blood glucose irrespective of diet glucose that the lower the blood glucose

the lower the insulin the lower the inflammation the higher the growth hormone the higher the IGF

one the higher the autophagy the reduced oxidation and oxidative stress the higher the glutathionic

catalyst etc like it just higher the ketones all of this seems to be correlated that the lower the

better yeah so that's where a lot of people are using the SGL2 inhibitors and it's compelling but

certainly I would agree like what's the kind of longer term side effects like we don't know and

certainly there's always a price to pay when you're kind of messing with a pathway chronically

there's always downstream effects of other pathways we know that the body is so great at homeostasis

and what we like call like cascades like you know the endocrine cascade this hormone affects another

hormone affects another hormone like they're not working in isolation their bodies working in

this beautiful concert of hormones and peptides and neurotransmitters and all these signals that are

happening and it tends to be when you inhibit something chronically that something else is affected

and I think you were seeing that to some degree and so I guess if I was to use it then I would

certainly not add other things while I was using it you just do a kind of self-experiment work

with your doctor work on keeping labs and use the kind of minimum effect of dose instead of max

dosing things see that's what it's just one of those things where it was designed for one thing and

then I was prescribed for the low ejection fraction and I will tell you I had that episode in June and

I got that the echo done in my ejection fraction was 44 and I had it tested again about three and

a half months after I started Giardians and I'm taking D ribose powder and high ubiquinol with it

and I was up to 50 I want to be a normal range which is 55 to 70 but that was a pretty significant increase

in a short amount of time but you know like I said I get those funny heart palpitations then I

started to panic and then I was trying I kept trying to piece this together and I kept getting

low potassium readings which I was already getting anyway before the Giardians and so it's like

okay I got to eat more because that you're you piss out 500 to 600 calories a day automatically

with the Giardians and then you're losing electrolytes you're losing potassium with all the frequent

urinating and like I said I have potassium pill where glucose slash glycogen goes you know this

anyone who's done keto when you lose so much weight in like the first week yeah a lot of that's

that water weight yeah like where glycogen slash glucose goes water follows so yeah absolutely

and that's why on keto as well like you need to keep your electrolytes up in particular sodium but

as you're mentioning sodium potassium play a role together they're the plus one ion and

and you know there's the sodium potassium cellular gates you know the voltage channels and

and all of that where it's absolutely critical that to have those levels up and most people

on their diet eat way more sodium than they're supposed to and not nearly enough potassium than

that they're supposed to get I've encountered that time and time again and a lot of HGH retention

revolved around sodium potassium ratios because I mean realistically you should be getting close to

like 4,500 milligrams of potassium a day some people will say 35, 3600 yeah I think but for somebody

like me that sweats a lot that trains a lot and then also on these medications need to be closer

to that 4700 and then it's finding the right foods that you know for that which is not the easiest

thing always to get I do a lot of avocados that have a lot in it because I eat a lot of avocado

like probably way more than the normal human but like zucchini a big zucchini I have a thousand

milligrams of potassium it's just finding the right foods and balancing agreed and sodium honestly

I believe should be a much higher level than you know 2000 milligrams yeah that's not enough

especially if like what you're saying like you're shedding a lot of fluid and and glucose and

electrolytes that you know I'd probably be looking to get a similar level of sodium I said sodium

is plus one but it's plus two and potassium is plus one but make sure you're getting something like

yeah four or five grams of of sodium if you're an athlete and losing a lot of electrolytes if

you're certainly a diabetic if you're someone who's doing a lot of sweating maybe doing sauna work

you know it's very important to replace fluid but also electrolytes you minute cardio sessions

like come out pretty drenched brother that's impressive yeah it's it's probably overtraining but

I've toned it down um but in Arizona even inside even in the winter you're sweating a lot man

you know and well it's important one of the things that I love from an exercise is a graduate class

I had a chapel hill my teacher told me maybe don't think of it as overtraining but under

recovering and I think that's uh that's a good point that's a potent thought shift or thought

experiment right there is to think about how you're nourishing your body to recover from that

difficult training it's so true I under eight for so many years like just eating disorder and

struggling with how I look and everything and I'm talking burn in four and five thousand calories a

day and eat in like fifteen to eighteen hundred even now eat three thousand and paper I'm still

under eating but I I don't know how to eat anymore than that you know it's it's hard but

you're right one of the things that even as a teacher of this for years that a lot of times

where hypocrites or at least me was the lack of recovery rest taken days off sleeping better

I have really had to force myself and now come to the realization because it's hard as you get older

to accept I can't do this like I used to but I can do it smarter and I can actually be

better by resting and doing these things how important is the rest part of the training

in your view the rest seem massive like massive I think foundational you know you were talking

about Molly Eastman who's a friend of ours sleep as a skill I believe it's the most foundational

part of biohacking is to get enough sleep and there is data to show that seven hours or less which

is probably what most people think is normal or a great night sleep for many people you start to see

a dramatic increase like a x increase in heart attack risk and a five x increase and diabetic

risk and why is that because you're increasing the stress on the neurons on the neurons become

acutely insulin resistant and when you're under slept and this becomes what they call type three

diabetes or essentially acute Alzheimer's and then you need it's setting the tone for your whole

body and actually increasing inflammation because there's not enough cellular energy and the brain

uses a ton of energy and all kinds of things are happening you're not getting the autophagy

mitophagy kind of defragging of the brain that's supposed to happen at night and so brain health

suffers dramatically and with that a lot of the neurotransmitters and signals and hormones that are

in that milieu are having downstream effects throughout the body like where you're seeing increased

oxidation inflammation glycation lack of cellular energy and when done chronically when chronically

under slept that's when you're seeing just horrible net effect like really just a terrible net

effect there's no like cortisol is going to be increased epinephrine or epinephrine which is

adrenaline or adrenaline all these things will be increased and you're just struggling to make it

through your day and then you're compensating with lots of caffeine or adderol or you know whatever

and this is having an impact and then add to it I would say in for men in particular that

are already overweight or maybe have used steroids and you know I have like thicker necks and

you're seeing a sleep apnea yeah I think a huge thing just that snoring that you think is normal

is not normal you're going sometimes over a minute without breathing and you're having these

apnea episodes where you're choking and gagging and you wake up and you know you think someone's

been attacking you and it's nightmares and or your your spouse can't sleep next to you like all

of this is you're not getting enough oxygen to the tissues and that leads directly to heart

attack and stroke are you lower testosterone from not sleeping enough harder more difficulty

losing weight obviously inability to focus probably shitty your attitude I can attest to that

yeah a lack of resilience yeah yeah just a yeah more agitation frustration anxiety

absolutely lower testosterone estrogen you know all the things whether male or female growth hormone

anything that's ideal is going to be impaired you will not be optimized here at the end if you're

not getting eight hours to sleep yeah totally so give me your list of what you would say are

just like absolute essentials that we need to take every day vitamin-wise or whatever I'm sure

there's a list but in comparison to a multivitamin which your thoughts on taking a multivitamin versus

supplementing each thing separately that we need I do think a multivitamin is ideal for most

people that are there is a lot of pill fatigue and I don't like kind of these all-in-one ag-one

kind of powders that are like jack of all trades master of none but I do think that you know

some of these super high-end multis like a a thorn a pure encapsulations they make really good

products I will say that the testing I've formulated some multis you have to look at the

each nutrients interaction and their stability meaning like what overages you put so that they

stay stable across the life of the product the two years of the product that takes so much work

in a multi because you're not talking about a couple ingredients you're talking about 50 ingredients

or whatever it is and I've taken three years of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in

testing to try and figure all that out so it is very complex to work on a multi and and do it well

so I would only trust like a really elite brand yeah um you do want to look for like the

methylated B vitamins organic forms of minerals uh the right dose is I don't think you need like

10,000 percent of anything like I think I would keep it in the sub 1,000 percent look at some of those

I know rain myself what like why yeah yeah I think some of them are too high and don't need to be

that high let me ask you this wouldn't that be like just not eating all day they'll can't you get

some of those from food you can you can get some from food but you know the argument is that

what's different now is there's soil depletion there's EMFs there's all these toxins that are

in the food supply the air that are in our clothing there you know endocrine disruption you know

G whatever there's all kinds of stuff that we're being assaulted with on a daily basis and we're

not getting the nutrients that we used to be getting here's a big one actually this is one of the

most exciting things that I've really stumbled into in terms of research and is right in line with

this and a good multi hopefully should have this if not buy this right away lithium or a date now

you might think lithium like uh someone has you know what would be called schizophrenia multiple

personnel you know all this kind of stuff all these right no that is literally 1000 x the difference

of what I'm talking about lithium at low levels and again 1000 the level of a medication has been

shown in a recent study they looked at all the minerals and how they associate with brain health

and they were plotted along the line and they were all kind of going here like along the line and

then way up in this kind of north star other side of the graph was lithium it has a profound

effect on cognitive health preventing Alzheimer's cognitive resilience it is a game changer and

our soil is all but depleted of it our water supplies all but depleted of it and maybe even some

of the other things that are in our soil and water supplier actually preventing what small amounts

are even left there from even getting absorbed so if we look at lithium oritate

game changer so five milligrams really potent profound dose take it at night take it consistently

and you'll see incredible benefits I have one from parent capsulations that has anacelosistine

with it which I'm a huge fan of that boost glutathione levels at night um so that I was looking

so that would be the the one that I would uh that I would suggest you add if it's not in a multi

what else then I mean we need magnesium we need potassium we need so we need our

magnesium you're probably not getting enough of in a multi it just needs to be bigger doses I'm a

big fan of magnesium biscliscinate magnesium glycinate or magnesium three and eight those are

really the two best forms are both amino acid keylates meaning the amino acid helps the bioavailability

glycine or three and eight so the three and eight tends to be better on a cognitive level and

the glycinate might be better on kind of a relaxing level maybe mag team mag three and eight

during the day maybe mag glycinate at night something like that obviously you're going to see

there's a huge percentage of the population I think it's up to 70 percent of the population is

magnesium deficient and we see that it improves obviously bowel habits and constipation we see

it improves muscle contraction cognitive function improve blood sugar effects and regulation and

insulin control better certainly bone health stress and resilience like there's so many things

that magnesium is helping with it's more than 200 chemical reactions in the body and that's where

we see magnesium just be kind of the the gold star of of all supplements everyone wants magnesium

seeing the benefits of magnesium it works you feel it you see a difference in your life

so that would be one I would certainly add I mean severe problems if your electrolytes are off

obviously yeah like I was saying heart rhythms one big one hydration like heart rhythm yeah exactly

for sure magnesium yeah so many places what about D3 and K2 did you put those up there as

essential I would and I do think this is another one that I may add separately from the multivitamin

that D3 we've seen in data that oil based is better than the dry I've seen as much as like a

three or four X difference in terms of the bioavailability where the soft gel the oil based D3 is

better and in particular if you have your oil based D3 with a fatty meal then you see the best

uptake and yes K2 not only for bone health but as both have been shown to improve bone health with

D3 and K2 but also D3 has a co-participant in K2 and a number of its reactions we're delivering

them both together has been shown to really have true synergy yeah and so there's the MK4

yeah MK7 has more studies last longer MK4 maybe actually more potent but is very short acting

if I was to use just one or the other be MK7 of K2 ideally you could get both together

and that's even better but I don't know who's selling that that way but that would be cool if

you could get MK4 and MK7 together I took one I can't remember off the top of my head it was

this four and a seven together and I for the life of me I don't know I'll figure it out and I'll let

you know later but I know I was taken one that way I was turned on to K2 for the heart health

and everything with it what about selenium iodine those how essential are those

the supplement like trace minerals yeah I think they are important you don't want to get too much

of them and they can end up becoming toxic or kind of interfering with the absorption of other

minerals I do think this in particular when we're talking about soil depletion and kind of over

farm soil and all of that that you're seeing a lot less of in particular those trace minerals

and those are going to have the greatest effect when you reduce something that's already tiny

and make that half as much or attempt as much it's going to have more of an impact so honestly

there's probably not enough research on the trace minerals selenium yes there's some good data like

especially around vitamin E and how it works with vitamin E and heart health and antioxidant

activity and things like that but I do think that this is where a multi is good insurance

in particular on the trace mineral aspect so make sure that it does have some of those trace minerals

and iodine as you mentioned is really interesting because salt used to be iodized yeah yeah like the

typical Morton salt or iodized salt but now everyone wants their you know dead sea salt sort of

you know whatever like this salt from here or there and it's not iodized anymore it's

quote-unquote more natural which is cool it may taste better and all that but it doesn't have

the iodine that the salt that was highly distributed before had and so we are seeing like a greater

increase in thyroid dysfunction and goiters and things along those lines so again just making

sure you're getting some of these trace minerals is important okay well I just looked at the clock

and I said 90 minutes and we went tell we're longer I got another probably 10 hours of questions

I want to go over with you so we're going to have to do several parts to this I can't tell you how

much I enjoy this I mean not just because we're boys but this conversation is I can I can talk

about this all day and especially with you I have had such a blast doing this man and I really

appreciate you leaving a trip with your fiancee early for me in Mexico setting this all up for me

here having me down here making the time for me just the daily interactions that I have with you

or weekly however they may occur I value the shit out of it I really do and I mean that for the

bottom of my heart and I thank you for all of this especially for your work no thank you brother

I appreciate that it's an it's an honor to be sitting here with you and to share my heart and

my knowledge with you and you're you're following and anyway I can help anyone listening please DM

me if you have a question I answer all of my DMs follow me on a Instagram and all the different

things just at Sean Wells SHAWNWELS go to Sean Wells doc again SHAWN and I have everything about

my formulations or various companies but also like a lot of cool free downloadable guides newsletters

that are all free everything's you know free I have a different list of cool supplements that

that I think are good stacks or whatever and where to buy them and all that good stuff so

should be anything you need on the site and should be all free as far as I know the only thing I

charge for out there is my book and and I have a chorus around the book but that's a well I can say

this without a shadow without most trusted name and supplements as an understatement and and it

sounds like it's the highest level that you could get but I think there's even more to it and I

already knew how much you knew but sitting down here and talking with you and doing it face to face

and going back and forth and everything and the quickness and the efficiency of your answers without

hesitation the way that you just go boom boom boom boom boom without doing the political politician

answer to dance around the fact that you don't know you never did that in fact you had an answer

for an answer for an answer every single time and that shows me not only the credibility but the

amount of dedication and just time that you've put into this that I can see so I just want everybody

will see this video but if you're only listening to audio you can hear it but when you see it

it's totally different so my friend thank you for everything for all of this like I said it's

been a pleasure and honor and everything in between now thank you yes so all right everybody

that wraps up another one I will have all of Sean's info in the description thank you for watching

I am sure that this has been the best episode I've ever done so take as much as you can from this

that being said stay tuned for plenty more to come Dylan Jamelie and Sean Wells

signing off

you