Episode #157: Traci Murphy on Recruiting

On the latest edition of the significant coaching podcast, a recruiting presentation of the

Coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel, available audio only everywhere you get your favorite

podcast.

I'm your host, Matt Rogers.

Before we get into today's conversation, I wanted to share a quick story and introduce

a new segment we're adding to the podcast this week, the significant question of the

week.

I'm presently working with a great student athlete who, when we started his recruiting

journey, was dealing with injuries to the point where he wasn't even sure playing in

college was going to be possible.

He dedicated himself to his rehab, his training, and doing everything the right way to get

healthy enough to play.

His dedication and resilience paid off, and this past fall, he became an all-conference

performer as a senior.

Because of that work, and the work we did reaching out to the right schools for him,

he ended up with eight offers from outstanding schools across the country.

This week, he's making the decision about where he will spend the next four years, and

it has been incredibly difficult for him and his mom because their hearts are torn between

three schools that all feel like great fits in three completely different ways.

So as we introduce this new segment of the podcast, I want parents, high school coaches,

and recruits to consider this week's significant question of the week.

If you remove the sport from your recruiting decision, would you still want to attend

that school?

Because coaches can change, teammates can change, sport careers can end sooner than any

of us ever expect, but the school, the people, and the environment you will choose will

shape the next four years of your life.

Put your thoughts in the comments, and let me know what you think.

Now, today's guest is Tracy Murphy, the vice president of athletics at NCAA Division

2, Damon University, and the president of the Division 2 Athletic Directors Association,

which is a part of NACTA, the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics.

What makes Tracy's voice so valuable in this conversation is that she has seen college

athletics from almost every angle.

She has worked as an athletic trainer, she's worked in compliance, student athletes support,

and now as a Division 2 Athletic Director and National Leader helping shape the future

of athletics.

After a thoughtful and very enjoyable conversation about coaching and leadership at the NCAA

Division 2 level in part 1, Tracy and I dove into the world of college recruiting in

today's conversation part 2.

Because of her background across so many areas of college athletics, Tracy brings a level

of knowledge and expertise about recruiting that you simply don't hear very often.

She's direct, she's honest, and she doesn't sugarcoat her advice for parents and teenagers

navigating this journey.

Listening to her about recruiting actually made me pause and ask myself an important question.

Am I being direct and honest enough when I talk to parents and prospective college athletes

about this journey?

In this conversation we talk about what championship culture really means inside a college athletic

department.

How families should evaluate that culture during the recruiting process and why the right

questions can tell you far more than the sales pitch ever will.

If you're a recruit, a parent or a coach helping families through this journey, this is

a conversation worth hearing.

Let's get into it.

Here's part 2 of my conversation with Tracy Murphy.

Go back with the fabulous Tracy Murphy athletic director, vice president.

Thank you for your president for that.

You are on the cabinet at Damon University.

You're also the division to ADA president of NACDA, the national director's collegiate

athletic director's and we had a great conversation about your world in part 1.

I want to get into recruiting part 2.

Okay.

I know you're an athletic trainer and I know you've done just about everything including

the kitchen sink and athletics, but you haven't had to necessarily recruit for your team.

So I'm interested in how you evaluate your teams from that 30,000 foot mark and how a coach

is recruiting, not just the talent but the character they decide to bring in, how they

create that melting pot in their program and I'm intrigued by kind of the nuggets you

give them an advice and observation and how that affects your expectations of them.

Truth be told in today's age, we know we're recruiting every day whether we realize it

or not because retention is so important, especially in higher ed because of the cliff

and then just because of the dreaded transfer report on.

But I will say from a recruiting standpoint, you know, when I get together with our coaches

and our staff, we talk about the expectations of our department.

I have been blessed with the opportunity that one within the year that I got here we

weren't just due for another strategic plan.

So collectively with the staff at the time, we developed a strategic plan and I included

everybody.

So in that we had to develop six pillars and in that we outlined with coaches what are

the details within those pillars when one of them is creating a championship culture

in terms of the people and your academic time and just champions in everything in life.

So because of the fact that I was able to do the strategic plan with everyone, it was

very clear to everyone what the expectations were for our division.

So it's more of a everybody knows what we're looking for.

We know we have we defined what a student athlete for Daemon looks like.

Now each coach determines that per sport, but we know what that athlete is.

It's a good character.

It is strong academic foundation.

It is athletic ability.

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you that they are worth a stud.

My coaches don't just look for the best of the best.

They also look for the diamonds and the rough because you know as a former coach that

most of these kids that are coming into school, haven't even matured all the way physically

yet.

Right.

They're not even into their full bodies.

They don't even have muscle weight, especially at the guys that muscle weight isn't even

there yet.

They're not defined.

They're straight.

There's an even there.

What where do they think they can develop?

They know their strengths as coaches.

They know if they're very good at developing whatever.

And so they I trust them to meet the expectations of what a student at Daemon is like and what

the expectation is with that comes then they need to decide they've already defined the

culture of their program.

So they need to make sure that they're doing their homework on the culture aspects, right?

And then they need to look and make sure of course the first thing they'll always look

at is the academic piece because of NCAA eligibility.

So those are kind of the things that I'm kind of expecting from them in terms of their

recruitment, looking for those things and they helped design it.

So it's not like I'm asking for something like they all have to be left handed or that

it's not like I'm asking, it's not like we designed something that's bizarre, right?

Now you asked about evaluating.

Now funny you say that because I did something in my opinion kind of unique.

I took our strategic plan and I turned it into a six tab spreadsheet and every year it's

broken down into the different action items within each pillar, each tab is a pillar and

then there's action items and in the action I am so it says you know, hey, how many freshmen

did you say we're going to bring in you said you brought in seven, how many do you actually

bring in you only brought in six, okay, but did you bring any transfer to grad students

and okay, you did all right, so you said seven, you brought in seven, you brought in

nine, hey, overachiever, love you, okay, that type of stuff.

And we do this at the end of every year.

The sports supervisors sit down after they have completed the spreadsheet and we look

at retention rate, graduation rate, who they said they were going to recruit, who they

brought in here.

Do they have any, do we have any documentation from behavioral issues?

Do we have anything that came from student affairs?

Do we have any issues financially?

Do we have any, did I, did any of us witness anything or did they get lots of, but they

always get technicals during the games like how many rate cores did they get?

I mean, all these things are in front of us and I did that because I wanted them to see

it.

Yeah.

And I'm not, and in there, there is a page where you put your wins and losses, but

non-conference, regular season, but that's what I'm paying, I'm not staring at that.

I'm looking at, you brought seven kids in, the seven kids were happy, nobody went into

the transfer portal.

Yep.

You had great season, you had less red cards, whatever, I look at it all, it's because

that's what, it's a holistic, it's a holistic opportunity that we're providing here.

It's everything, it's not just black and white, X's and O's, it's all of it, it's, are

they on time for their outfit and training appointments?

Did they go to the team doctor, like they said, they were going to, are they showing up

for physical therapy?

All those things matter.

And that's what we all said we were looking for and that's what we all said that we wanted

because if we have a well around the student ethic, we can do a lot of things with them.

It must look your job, it must make your job searches, your vacancy opening so much easier

when you have that, when you have a rubric like that and you kind of, you're not always

going to get that person fits all those check marks.

But no, this is what we're looking for.

The character can be whatever it may be, we want to be surprised, but we want somebody

that can talk about these things at a higher level, right?

Yes.

Yes.

The thought about it, they put effort into, right?

Yes.

And the coaches are developing because I have some that are newer than others and they're

developing habits and routines so that it's getting easier for them to spot the right

kid at the right time.

Yeah.

And you don't learn that in the first three, four years.

Oh my gosh.

No.

Takes time to understand.

Yes.

And you got to do your homework and I, I mean, I think one of the things that I should

probably add down the line is I should ask everybody to tell me in June, what they

are June 1, how many people are in their contacts, not who they are, but just how many people

in their contacts.

And then by May 31st, what's the number?

Once we hang out, I've got a rubric to show you that I've got it.

I'm building a brand new athletic department for a college in Oregon.

They've never had athletics.

Okay.

It's just, it's making me feel so good because everything you're talking about, we're

literally building it for the indeed.

She's never been an AD before and she's so lost and one store is so hard and do things

right.

So I've literally building her rubrics.

So she, oh, that makes sense.

Yeah, I do need to be asking the coaches about that.

I do understand their plan for this and what their executive function skill looks like.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I do let them organize and demonstrate their programs.

But when they hit a road bump, they have to share, they have to share the road bump.

Okay.

And they have to talk us through what they did and make sure that their plan is good.

Like I make them, in most cases, they can wait 24 hours.

So especially the newer coaches, I say, listen, you know what, hear it call your sports

supervisor, go have a conversation, dwell or sleep on it, come in the morning, a lot

of them can figure it out if they just sleep on it, right?

But what the one of the things that I absolutely love and I think working on the strategic

plan and just who I am and how I promote our division and how I talk with everybody

and how I see us as a collaborative unit, my team doesn't matter who, but my team, when

they walk in any of our senior admin's offices, they don't come in just to dump the, the

issue.

They come in with, here's the problem, I have some suggestions.

What do you think I should do?

So they're coming in ready to problem solve with potential solutions.

I love that.

I mean, I think I'm able to do so many other things because I'm not necessarily putting

out fires every day because other people are thinking for themselves.

I am impressed.

I love it.

Yeah.

I give them the autonomy to do so now.

They have to talk to us to make sure that we're following university policies and division

policies and stuff, but empower them.

They're your coaches.

They're running this organization of that team parent.

I talked about this with another AD yesterday.

If I have to be your boss in your mom, we've got a problem now that we're lost.

And if I have to act like it, that's where the problem comes.

Yeah, I have my own two kids and I have them.

I understand.

I understand.

Let's go out and talk about work and we talked about work life balance, right?

This is part of it.

You've got to be able to, like, somebody else has got to be able to problem solve.

You can't just be all on you.

Now, granted, they have the director of responsibility is that oversight, you know, from the 30,000

feet up.

Our net is extremely, it's cast very, very far.

But I do trust my coaches and my staff to work through the problem and then double check

with me before it goes through to make sure that they're doing the right thing and go for

it.

That's why I'm a consultant and a podcast host because I was terrible at that 15 years

over my four balance.

I'm a parent.

And let's assume there's parents list this because I know I have hundreds and hundreds

of parents that listen to this that are high and have high school kids.

They hear the phrase, championship culture.

That's what you're trying to build.

Every one of those parents is going to have a different perspective on what that means

and how their child gets into that.

How do you define that with your coaches?

Because it's really easy for us to tell you what's that?

The experience that they're having is at first class.

Top not.

Are they getting the development on the court, for example, in their sport?

Are they enjoying the team culture?

Are they getting the support services they need to be successful in the classroom?

Do they have the support from the coach when there's conflicts with exams, study groups,

et cetera?

Are they getting the care of their health and safety covered by nutritionist, mental

performance coach and athletic trainer?

It's everything.

It is not just winning games.

It is not.

This is a life.

This is life.

This is their first life experience with guardrails.

What's that?

Now, here's where I want you to take this because that's your philosophy as an athletic

director.

Your job as the leader of your division is to make sure your coaches and your kids can

be the best versions of themselves.

It's your job to create that foundation where they don't have to worry about why is it

the bus here?

We've got an ankle injury and we don't have an athletic trainer.

You're a little basketball game and we don't have any water.

Your job is to make sure those thoughts don't have to be had.

If they can coach, they can play, they can be teammates, they can be healthy, they

can be happy.

Now, let's look at that from a recruiting standpoint.

Because I bring in the wrong kid and that's affecting the culture that we're building

and it's affecting everybody's job.

It's affecting everybody's world.

If I'm a parent, how does my child fit into the Damon Championship culture?

How do I know my child doesn't fit that culture?

That's where all those questions come into play.

That's why all of those questions are important.

It's so commonplace for me.

It's hard for me to put worse.

I mean, it's hard for me to identify exactly what's a tell a parent, but to ask the

questions.

And I'm asking because that's what I mean, ask questions and I know this is going to

sound weird and I don't think it's, I mean, I did confines for a while.

I don't think this is a rule, but you know, when you're invited to go to a game, go with

your young person and find where the parents are sitting.

Find where the parents are sitting.

Listen, you don't necessarily have to engage with them, but listen.

If they're, hey, to say this, but if they're yay and about the coach or they're grumpy,

or ask them saying, hey, your son or daughter on the team, oh, great.

How do they like it here?

Observe, watch how your young person interacts with the coach.

Watch how your young person does pick up with the team.

Watch, watch, stream a game and watch how they play and see, try to figure out where

your son or daughter maybe fits in that.

Listen, remember what the coach said about their role and responsibility, talk to your

son or daughter, make sure they understand what the coach meant by role and responsibility.

You know, and then when you're on campus, have your son or daughter attend a class, ask

them to audit a class, either go with the student athlete to a class or audit something

that's in the major that they're interested in.

See if that person feels like that professor's going to relate to them and vice versa.

I know that's not what anybody's thinking about because all they're thinking about is

winning and being part of a team and the championships and all that and playing time.

And again, you're going to leave there in four or five years with four years or five

years of eligibility and you're going to leave there with a degree.

And so it all does, in my opinion, it all does.

It all is part of it.

And then the parents again, the parents need to ask all kinds of questions to the coach.

If I have a problem or I have a question, will you take my phone call?

There needs to ask that on the front end.

And I'm hoping that the coach says, no, yeah, hoping the coach says, no, your son or daughter

can come to my office and we can call you together.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm hoping that's what they say because my son or daughter gets injured.

What do we do?

And ask the coach that don't just go to the training room and ask the athletic trainer.

Ask the coach because what you want to hear is the support that the coach is going to

give and the direction the coach is going to give.

If you send them to, if you have an injury and how you go to the training room, hey, I'm

going to come catch you in an away game.

Am I going to be allowed to eat with my son or daughter or am I going to be able to hang

out at the same hotel when my, I know these are tiny little things and they're not something

that you think of when you're talking about recruiting, but all the information from

all these little things matter because you need to hear about, moved and vibe and expectation.

Coaches, you get an expectation from the coach, the coach tells the parent, no, I won't

take a call.

Yes, you could call me, but I won't talk to you about certain things.

That means that tells you that that coach is, it's important for that coach to, for your

son or daughter to grow up, be mature and handle their own situations.

And you need to expect that coach to help your son or daughter do that.

Yeah, exactly.

And it, I'm sure you've heard a lot of the same things over and over again and I'm probably

trying to find things that are a little different because I just think we're at a time now where

things do need to be a little bit different.

You do need to ask a lot of questions.

You should be asking, how many kids transferred out last year?

You should be asking how many people you're bringing in this year.

Don't ask about playing time.

Don't ask about that.

Ask about how many kids, or how many kids are you anticipating to transfer?

How many kids are you graduating?

Those are good questions to ask.

There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm curious, Tracy, you go down the hallway with your coaches.

How many of them can answer those questions the way you expect them to?

And how many of you?

All of you.

Is that because of the conversations you're having and staff meetings and individuals?

Or is that because you know what you're hiring?

Both.

The coaching is never ends.

The conversation, who we are, what championship culture means, how we get there, who we bring

into that culture never ends.

Yeah, yeah, no.

I mean, yes, I talked about the strategic plan.

That's why I made our end of the year evaluations a model image of the strategic plan because

it's always being reinforced.

We reinforce it during staff meetings, which are once a month.

We reinforce it at the end of the year when you do your evaluations.

We talk about it at our kickoff.

We talk about it at our end of the year, at the end of the year meeting, when we're off

side and we're hanging out and we do something fun, it's all connected.

This is something that we have to weave throughout our division the whole time because otherwise

it's harder for the coaches to, we all have to believe this.

I mean, all boats, if you all have to row in the same direction.

And if I don't, if we're not all on the same page, I'll tell you one thing.

When you have a coach that isn't in sync like that, it's real obvious.

It's really obvious.

It hurts.

It hurts.

It hurts.

It is very painful.

It is painful.

You can rip off.

Yeah.

No, it's not.

Endless.

And I'm also, I wouldn't, I don't know.

I also try to rehab, I mean, that's the old treat.

I'd try to rehab people.

So like if I can't get necessarily somebody to, if they're off a little bit or they're

focusing too much on one thing and I don't know if another, I have to redirect.

And we do that and we'll evaluate it and we'll redirect.

And I have some that, like I said, I want to teach them grace and they're very hard.

I have some that are very hard on themselves and I'm trying to tell them, I'm not, please,

I'm not, I can stop to lumbloon the face and they still, that isn't mad.

I mean, it's, I, it's, yes, they can all do this and it's not just because of the

strategic plans because we talk about it all the time.

We all do.

I mean, and that's, we're a family and we're all in this together and it's, I'm very proud

of what we have done here and in my tenure.

And I am very, I am one of the luckiest people to have the coaches that I have and telling

you, I, I am so lucky, I can't, they love what they do, they want to do what they do.

They love every part of their job and they don't take it for granted.

No, they, no, they do not.

And it just, they make it worth, besides my, when the student athletes, or I love my student

athletes, that's right.

The point of speaking of my coaches and even my senior staff, that it makes it worthwhile

to come to work every day and every conversation I have on campus or off campus, it is so easy

to advocate for them.

And it's not for me, I'm advocating for them, and I'm advocating for Damon and I love

it.

I mean, I don't know how much longer, I mean, I don't know how much longer I'll be here.

Year of a waste becomes kind of drowns out after a while because, but I, I'm very fortunate.

You don't want to hear this, but it's the sign of great leadership when, yeah, I wouldn't

expect.

I've been, I've been in places where I didn't feel that, I didn't feel like we were all

rowing the boat the same direction, and there were times where we didn't know what that

direction was, I just spent a year as a high school coach a couple years ago.

We never had a staff meeting, I still can't tell you how their head coaches are on that

staff.

The only ones that I met, the ones that came through my gym during practices, and introduced

themselves.

I have no idea, and with a lot of them, we shared kids, we shared athletes, but we never

had a staff meeting, we never shared ideas, we never shared worries or concerns, and this

was at the high school level, and it was part time job, I show up at three, but that's

how I felt.

I show up, I do my job, and I leave.

This isn't a culture, this isn't a family.

I'll tell you this, I've got a friend who's a D2 basketball coach down the road here,

and I went to his practice a couple of weeks ago, and I sat in a chair, they were already

in practice, and I just sat in a chair over the sidelines, and throughout the next 20 minutes.

I never saw the coach point at me, I never saw the coach acknowledge the boys, one by one,

they would come over and shake my hand and ask me my name, tell me who they were, where

they were from, and they were plight, and they were kind, and they were curious, asked

like, yeah, if I'd known for 10 years, and I'd so thankful that you're still doing

this, you know.

Yeah, I have, well, that's, I'm telling you, I have, because if they're doing that for

me, every recruit and parent that comes in, yes, kids are doing the exact same thing.

I have that, in one shape or form, I have that, I have, I'm just, I can't get over

how, I am very, very lucky, you know, and they're lucky to have you, I appreciate that.

Give a piece of advice for a young coach out there that wants to be a college coach.

Try, just keep trying, talk, you know what, networking is really important, and I guess that's

really what I want them to understand, networking, observing, and watching, and getting, and

talking to a variety of people, good and bad, will make you better.

I mean, what you see in terms of leadership from me, that is from 30 years of working

with very good and very bad leadership.

And so from this, I have been able to identify who I want to be and how I want to lead,

and that's what a young coach should be doing too.

They should be watching mannerisms of their coaches they're working with.

They need to watch, these will listen to how they're communicating.

They need, I'm not talking X's and X's, but I'm talking leadership style, management

style, communication style, there's three things, and they should be spending any free

moment they have, observing that in a variety of areas.

Even if you're a men's coach, you can go observe women coaches.

If you're a women's coach, go observe men's coaches.

There's a lot more similarity there than there are differences, and you should find

a balance, regardless.

And I think that all that stuff is going to make, it's going to help you develop your

philosophy and your foundation, and when you believe, when you take it all in, and you

start to do those things, you will begin to believe it, and then you can articulate it.

That's the biggest thing that I look for when we actually have the, maybe part of a

Zoom, but in person, it's the articulation, and I should be, you should be able to articulate

and I should be able to suspect that this is a variety of influences that have brought

you to my chair, into my office, in the chair, in the hot seat for the interview.

Yeah.

I know it's not one word, but...

No, it's great.

It's an ideal advice.

I put you in a room with 300 parents and athletes.

They all want to play, your kids will all want to play in college.

What would you tell them on how to go about the recruiting process if they want to play

at Damon?

What should they be doing?

Oh, as soon as possible, they should be sending the young person, not the parent.

The young person who wants to play should be sending an email to the coach, providing

them stats, film, even if it's just one clip, and then their home schedule, or their

game schedule.

And that should go to our coach with a very nice opening that has been proofread, that

flows well, that says, hi, I am, and tell them why you're interested in Damon.

So if that means you've got to go spend 30 minutes on our website, then do it.

Don't just cold call, make it seem, for any school that you're looking at, make it seem

that we're, you're interested in us because, and I would put in there as much information

as you possibly can regarding that.

And then you add all of your athletic acumen, okay?

And whether you cut and paste your stats, or you attach your stats, or there's a one

video in there, and then your schedule and say, I would love for you to come watch

we play.

This is the club team I do.

I'm going to be, or, hey, you're going to be in town playing blah, blah, blah, blah,

let them know that.

And you know what?

If you really want to come here, keep emailing, that's right.

You're helping me sell a lot of bookstresses.

You thank you very much.

It's great.

Where's my, where's my cut?

You will get it.

You, that was chapter six.

You just explain it to a team.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Oh, I'm like, I lost my clever.

Thank you.

I got to tell you, I, it's like Conan O'Brien, you know, he's always looking for a friend.

I am collecting friends through this podcast and I'm so thankful to have you in my life.

And I'm so thankful you're in the world of athletics, sharing your knowledge and your

love and compassion and fighting and advocating for student athletes and coaches.

It just fills my heart and I'm just so thankful to know you.

So thank you for doing this.

Oh, Matt, thank you for this opportunity.

This has been so much fun, a lot more fun than I thought, not that I thought it wasn't.

I've just enjoyed the conversation and the topics and I am so glad you are now in my

network.

I am very excited.

You got me whenever you need me, if I can help in any way or if you just ever want to

talk about life and coaching and demonstrating, I'm always open to it.

I miss it.

And, and this is what I miss.

This is, I miss the end of the walk into your office and go, yeah, I got something

I'm dealing with.

Let's talk about it.

This has been great.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Oh, my pleasure.

Absolutely.

I've enjoyed every second.

Thank you.

What a great conversation.

Before we go, I just want to say how much I appreciate Tracy Murphy for joining us

today.

Her perspective on recruiting is incredibly insightful and valuable.

I especially appreciated her honesty about what championship culture really means and

the importance of families asking the right questions as they navigate the college experience.

And don't forget this week's significant question of the week.

If you remove the sport from your recruiting decision, would you still want to attend

that school?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

So make sure you drop them in the comments and let me know what you think.

Two quick reminders before we wrap up.

First, make sure you follow along on my Instagram account, Coach Matt Rogers, where I share

weekly about present and past guests from the significant coaching podcast.

There are so many great leaders in college athletics who have been generous enough to share

their wisdom on this show.

And Instagram is where you can learn a little bit more about them and their journeys and

a little bit about me and my journey.

Second, check out my Instagram post this week about my speaking tour.

I'll be doing this spring and summer.

If your school, your club program, your college, your community, could you someone to talk

with your athletes, parents, and coaches about how to approach their college journey?

The right way.

I'd love to come spend some time with you and your community.

You can learn more about all of that at coachmat Rogers.com and you can schedule a quick discovery

conversation with me over Zoom there as well.

As always, until next time, stay focused on what you can control.

Stay humble and keep chasing significance.