Episode 327: Near Disaster averted at Cape Town Stadium

0:00So next time, I'll talk to the content. 321. You're sorry that that timing has come down to the look. Hello, welcome. Good evening everybody. Sorry, I started watching some some some scrum. No, no, this is part of it. This is an act for them. Anyway, okay. Now you have to count me down again because you've ruined the magic of stage craft. Hello and welcome to a much more positive lead regular band to this week. I'm expecting and you know, a book when I'm the belt feels really good. And you know, for those of us that were in stadium, you know, to just survive the match. And that wasn't because the key fans were in particular aggressive. Those were because of some very globally controversial but locally applauded flight planes. And yeah, it was a much much more enjoyable Saturday. I think maybe maybe more in post.

1:01I think the experience through it was stressful, but yeah, we will dive into all of that this evening. And that we are joined by full. How's going on your son? Did you get a haircut this weekend? Very close. I was right at the top of the stands where the where the plane came. Didn't even realize the plane was coming. If I'm being honest, it was just so loud and so crazy. And the roof was about me. So almost got a haircut, but I didn't. I do need a haircut, though. So I'll be going soon. I'm all good. Otherwise, thanks. How are you? Yeah, very, very well. Andrew, how are you doing? All right. Thanks. It seems I should just stop going to rugby matches because the ones that I go to we always lose. So you guys enjoy the fixtures and Cape Town. I won't come and pollute you all good. I'm not going to go there. Going on there, but job very happy for a win. Maybe, maybe again, this is just your motivation. Just get it. Let's park knock down on. And you don't have to go there anymore for losses. Are you going to match this weekend just as well? We're on that topic. I'm doing need to, you know, it's putting some sneaky bets.

2:04Before or against. No, I'm not going. So it'll be a comfortable spring walk when you'll be happy to hear. That's that that is exciting. And yeah, look, there is a lot going on. Should we should we jump and dive into it? And. Yeah, lots of controversy off the field and lots of stuff happening on the field and lots of reflection. I think from both fan bases on on relative performances week on week. And I think it probably is, you know, one of the really cool things about having a proper tour. And it's been interesting as much as all the fan fear about the nation's cup and situations they've got. People are really just back and engaged with a tour where you can kind of go week to week and. Fix mistakes from the previous week and kind of get one back over the team that beat you. And you know, I think people. Maybe didn't appreciate that that aspect of the traditional team to us. But job. As it.

3:04It was fairly comfortable. Asks spring walk when in the end, full of us, you'll kind of take away. You said you're in the stadium. It was loud. It was noisy. It was enthusiastic. What was your kind of. A emotional level throughout again. I'll start with at the end where definitely not comfortable enough because I was stressing. Because we were only seven points ahead and we know that. I think it was a very, very easy and one thing that they can do is punish from deep. And Jordan had the ball. About 50 meters before he got turned over by Hanukkah. I think so at that point I was stressed and I was happy. I think it was Hanukkah. Not 100% show but I think it's Hanukkah. So that was really stressful, especially because as you say, it felt a little bit more comfortable throughout the game. But I think we played a lot better. We improved almost every aspect of our game from last week I thought.

4:06And yeah, we didn't see it all in come to fruition. Of course we had some issues with scrums with the referees as I'm sure you'll get into. But yeah, it felt like a much stronger performance to me. Oh, no, this is where I think is really interesting because I don't know if I agree with that necessarily. I mean, you said a stats table today and pretty much every single status identical to last week. Carries 96 versus 103 line breaks seven versus five. We had fewer line breaks. Those contact meters 298 is 27 turn up is one five versus six tackle completion 78 versus 82 rocks 173 versus 79. The big thing was penalties conceded was down by five, but I don't think that's too much to do with us. I think like it pretty much every metric apart from obviously the scoreboard, which is the one that matters and potentially scrum penalty is one. Like I think we played I personally think we played better last week than me this week. And you're right. Am I am I also the case there?

5:07I think we played differently. Obviously, well, one very much played differently, but I'll give you. Well, then was shortly you've found it and you've been on mind a little bit. I think you know, we we expected with Pollard supposed to play in this game. Obviously, he's had an injury 90 you can't play in session was named the did he have an injury or is this all just a rassy mind games? Well, you know, it's with changing the pen for an hour before the game. You know, there's those kind of mind tactics. It's rassy, so everyone suspects that this was premeditated. Because he's in your head in your head. So certainly in the key these heads. Yeah, although any is doing is very good mind games too, but anyway back to the question. I think we we expected a change back to a more sort of familiar traditional template. And we had a different actor there to who we expected in such a starting again, which is an interesting call.

6:07But he did play more conservatively more to that Pollard style of play. He also went back to you know, respecting our opponents and test rugby and taking the points when they were on offer. And yeah, shout out to Chesslyn. He's not missed to kick the entire the entire tournament, which is pretty phenomenal. He's got 18 points, I think, move the boot. So he's becoming like suddenly a real important cog in their will. So it was it was I don't know if we played better worse but we played differently and it was effective and it worked. I don't think we can play exactly the same as coming week though. It was also very disappointing lapses in defense, which you know, all blacks were. That they are the best in the world they exploiting errors, I think. So. Yeah, I mean, look, I think they. Last week's tries were a bit weird, you know, in totality. I think you know, like some of them were very yellow card influence and some of them were.

7:07And they just ran into like charge down the stuff that you can't really get a yes, they scored five tries last week, but I don't think that was really a fair reflection of. A fair reflection of where our team actually is and given all those options, but I think the sachet point for me is this really showed. Hopefully a great maturity in it because I think like my biggest criticism generally of him, you know, and it's being the same without against Williamson, or mockess, and all these guys that like. They're they're kind of hero moment players that they they. Have been so good for so long when they kind of default is to take the team on their back and carry the team to victory and you know most of the time, especially if he's good enough to do that, but. It means that we're under the pressure without form that's their response mechanism and I think what he did really, really well on Saturday. This is what he did the previous week is just do less just get out of the way. Stand back and let other players do most of the work, you know, I think that's a trade up a lot of really good flowers is they don't need to be touching the ball every single play you know you get the one like a fin Russell who does that but a lot of really good fly offs and it's.

8:12But I'm not saying probably is the flower of multi go to but like. Flavs they can kind of just get out the way until they're needed and that's kind of what I felt satcheted this week versus what he did last week was last week he was kept on calling the ball on himself in positions where. It just wasn't on and and then the past was bad or he was out of position or he was catching it behind like his rock support and you know that just put pressure on us, this week he just didn't you know and that I think just allowed all the so much more than the game to kind of just look more fluid and. So I was now I think a really good growth point for him is to try and like actually kind of just taper his own involvement in the game. While he's potentially still coming back back into form and stuff I got. Yeah I think I agree with you there were a lot more times where you would just see Sasha taking the ball passing it on as the right thing to do it's like decision making and that's you know if it's possibly the fly offs you know most important skill thing is just making the right decision choosing whether to pass whether to kick whether to.

9:16Or you know that sort of just facilitating others rather than taking you know it's great that you can take it on yourself now that should be there like the rare occasion when it's on and you know and let others do do most of the work most of the time and I think I was yeah really good growth. And I think other he was absolutely guessed at the end again I'm sorry lying on his back on the field again after we so we went back to full back obviously because we've heard now that Damien of Olympus is injured. So that's that's a shame for the for the box obviously Colby's covering that this week but yeah he does seem to still be lacking a little bit of match but no but hopefully every week that is improving. Yeah I mean but that that makes sense like he's still coming back with I'm you know I'm still surprised that I think he is playing as much as he is playing this closely close to coming back from injury but you know team it was much more assured performance this week and yeah we'll touch on the obviously the

10:19development injury and the implications that have that that has on our team for this weekend if that is indeed our team for this weekend. But yeah I think for me it wasn't so much that we played as it's in a really better or worse I think we just there was some small adjustments the tactics which we're just thinking a bit like and simple things like contesting a line up like right last week we gave them some in attacking platforms of our line up where we knew and last week as soon as we saw the contesting we just started stealing a little more and like we could have lost we can first off just start out if we just contested just like we did this game I mean they line up now I mean we think we stole four or five but at least the other half of the ball was just completely nancy and disrupted so you know technically they wanted but it wasn't really usable apart from you know the kind of already line break which was a bit nonsense but you know that's not what happens. Sorry clearly you're a sees a pod listener because we made that point quite strongly last week. Yeah I mean again I think it's weird that like that was the plan last week already but yeah I think the comment around

11:23respecting the score but in going for the polls I think yeah hopefully that was an on field learning where we just realized we weren't getting paid from scrubs and we're like well let's just go do something useful with the penalties I still think and it's kind of back to your point for about being stressed in the final 10. Yes it's great that we scoring consistent in Colby's kicking 10 out of 10 or whatever does that out of 80s every week but you know you kind of always felt that all blacks had to quick tries in them and at a 14 point lead accumulated in threes was just maybe not quite enough do you think we should have run for the corner again a couple more times again given how dominant we were in their 22 I mean we scored three tries out of three from the after you visits to the 22 I think we scored seven out of eight positions in their half which were the rest were obviously all the penalties but like given how dominant our forwards and our more and just out you know our confrontational carries where like should you have just gone for the corner once more and actually just press we pushed that out to like a three score you'd instead of any two scores. I did feel like it yeah I mean I think it was good to put the pressure on where you know when you're two scores ahead it does feel like the other team really has to start scrambling.

12:33But I think New Zealand would just make it not making it look easy because I think we did actually defend a lot better this week even though we still considered far too many tries for our liking but yeah I mean I think by being two scores ahead we were able to put them under more pressure but I agree with you we were a lot more clinical when it mattered so you know if we went for more points we could have definitely made it more comfortable for ourselves at the end. I think it was just put more pressure on them you know it never felt like they were truly out of the game whereas I reckon if we didn't open that second half of the you know try instead of just a couple of three I think that would have really ramped up the pressure and then I think we've got it within us you know like I think I was reflecting because yesterday. In the June series or July series we didn't kick for polls once and we're scoring you know 40 points and everyone. Yeah now we're scoring and we're still scoring you know six or seven times a game I mean even in Jover we scored four times like we're scoring

13:36in most more than three than we were in previously we were you know over the last year you know we've been going for the corner going for sevens. It's like well we know the whole blacks are a good enough side to probably score between 25 and 30. That's a lot of penalties you've got to kick to get to 30 points should we not just especially when I don't feel like a line up in the 22 is a 50 50 call it feels like a 70 30 call and should we not just be backing ourselves to the corner and just kind of you know really putting that heat on them get it get a 10 15 point lead off to half an hour or you know at 50 minutes and then see if they fall apart like they did in Wellington last year. So it's just for me being disrespectful to New Zealand and test match right. No I think there's there's times you know for it I think you've given a good example of where pressing the advantage would be in you know with with the risk you know it's a it's a lower risk as you sort of said there's 70 30 in favor of scoring try.

14:40And that would kind of put the game away which is a huge advantage to have psychologically with however many minutes to go but I think in the first half the first 50 minutes or so just consolidating a lead building it building a school with pressure I mean that I think they made the right calls to that point. Could it be a lot more comfortable than it was in the end though and I do think you made a good point about trying to press the advantage when you have it. I think like especially at least in the first the first 40 minutes or 30 minutes like it I've always felt if you're defending a phase in your half and you can see the penalty and they choose to go for three. I kind of feel like that's a little kind of is like cool like we're in the first season 3 it's it's it's it's it's could have been five especially these days where people are scoring just more regularly like and I imagine you know New Zealand probably like shit you know every time you go to see that like that the let off. As opposed to just being like actually know we're putting our foot on the throat and kind of actually going to try and take this win early as opposed to just kind of round it off.

15:41That being said it's it's nice that we have that within us but also like you can't always rely on goal kick it hitting 100% every single week. So yeah it is interesting. But yeah I mean maybe we should focus on New Zealand do you think they were. You know obviously last week 30 point victory save is a rugby attack is the best thing in the world. I'll score it's five to one they're amazing still out scoring a four tries to three you know did they did they walk away from this game with the moral victory. As you know the industry is like to say I don't think they did I think that they scored that they scored more tries for. But they scored fewer points and so despite what despite the despite what you may be hearing or reading from whoever just remember that. Most points wins as it is in most most sports and ultimately you know they as I said they did look dangerous. You know each of their tries I think was.

16:43Some pretty good running rugby more or less you know the think of will Jordan running down the line passing back to Roy guard. Severe as try they were you know very good tries but. We I think we were as as I was sort of leading to I think we were more dominant I know we also were dominant last week but especially. We were we would be able to be more dominant and then clinical at the same time and keep them to. You know we stricter them restricted them to scoring from long range they would never really like captain putting us under pressure that sort of thing. I think they got into our 22 a lot more often this week. But we were able to you know I mean I would have a more position in territory as well but I think we were able to kind of just hold on out conditioning for the lights and just force issues. So yeah I think they they were less clinical but I think it's more because we contested maybe slightly better but they also just had a lot more opportunity like last week we just they literally were not in our half the entire game.

17:51So yeah it was interesting I think like that was the biggest turn on it's just like I would position territory stats flipped. And then both sides the team with far less position in territory one. Yeah which is a bit odd and do you still think will Jordan should end remember I think that was one of the titles of our podcasts early on the season. And you could say yes. No I don't know. Yeah I hope that was that was a Claude interpretation of some wording like yeah I think like at the same time I know because obviously and we've always said he's incredible finishing incredible attack and player but like he's still getting dominated in the air which is. Half again. So I think it's like you can't only have a look at it plays pure attacking prowess and then declare their overall ability. So if that was my take when here for a go I stand by that that interpretation.

18:52On the flip side Ethan Oko was I think really good. I've seen foreign people being a surprise that he was good but I've always received foreign people say that he wasn't particularly good. I'm saying like are they rounded him he was jamming into easily like you get through his channels so quickly I'm like that's an interesting take. I because I agree I thought he was really good like in under the Bible he was brilliant. I think especially sorry like under fence he was really good like if especially if you compare it to last week when we had. Grant Williams playing on the wing for a certain portion and way we had more disruption I think he was. Just making sure that a lot of the all blacks because they tried to get it like wide very fast you know he was able to close that down quite well. Yeah I mean that's that's their motto. It is and it's our defensive system for the wings to bite in as well and then you have the scramble defense that comes across and uses the touch line as the last defender.

19:52So we do concede space on the margins that's always been you know a facet of the spring rocks to fence of structures but he does get it right more times than not in terms of. Shutting it down in sort of the outside center channel and not letting it get to the wing and often the way that news you didn't play it's not well Jordan that gets it in the wider channels with space it's like to provide. Who I thought yeah number five on his back this week but you played exactly the same role in open play to any play so when he had six on his back that the previous week he's he's he's earning a lot of respect from me I think he's a real weapon for New Zealand at the moment he's he's pretty damn effective I think. Do you think he's just not a particularly good line out jumper though because he's he's like the I mean hitman Fabian Holland of course. Pretty tall pretty big guys but why is there like maybe it's the hookers because they're good at the moment either I think.

20:52But they're not means Cody Taylor's. Good or has been good I mean like I think you know we've got three really tall jumpers and you know said these as always just being our relative strengths it's like. You know you've got to to jump the options versus four yeah like you're gonna you're gonna struggle especially when you know I'm getting in the air is just way faster like we get just get off the ground quicker and I think and you know you playing against it's a bit who's. One of the best locks in the whole time and you know underrated the defensive line up lock and so. I mean I have been I have been a bit disappointed in Cody Taylor because he has been much better super ugly like you went down a bit and then he's come back up but I think he's he hasn't had a great couple of games and when I was come off of the bench he's like made quite an impact but I guess this weekend then is. Yeah exactly a line up and scrum's. Yeah which again I mean it all comes back to these stupid laws of like you know not having proper scrums and in.

21:53Super ugly along hook is not neat to throw straight like there's lots of small things that accumulate to people's basics just not being very good. And I think you're starting to see some of those things when you can't against a team that actually does do said these properly and you realize well you can't kind of. Play me a breath out of us you know because like for all the New Zealanders hating penalties and wanting game flow and all the stuff like I can imagine they would have been wishing angus card and blues whistle a lot more on the weekend you know in particular you think up to the day in the lendy try for example like. That was just an unbelievably shocking call like. Now on earth with a chicken for knock on the rack and just missed the like most blatantly obvious off side and abstraction in the process. Yeah now there was lots of. I mean it wasn't just the scrums were after people complained about the referring I mean that's been pretty well interled in the media and I know. But when you say people complaining about the referring are you talking about rainy.

22:56Partly but fans from both sides I mean I think the New Zealand scrum. I'm just going to reserve that son and desert as a former hookie you have some some thoughts on that. But the regular just for clarification. The break down for instance and it was a lot of entry from the side and guys taking people past the rock and. It just wasn't ever called or if it wasn't called it was coached you know people had their hands on the ball and he's shouting at them for like three or four seconds before they let go. No at that point you're not you're not a coach you let the referee pick the egg and that goes for both sides I think I mean the spring rock fans I think we have our grabs but I think he's it and also has their grabs. And that's fair enough but yeah I think I think. Scrums I'm happy to chat scrums but I think I'll just say before we get there like I always kind of believe that like a lenient riff or a riff that's not blowing to the book is worth the spring rocks than any other team because I think we're like.

24:02As much as people like to think we cheat or we've been a spring watch cheated every possible corner. I think the spring was very clear about what the rules are not I mean to the extent that we actually have a riff in our camp is opposed to most teams you know. And we've always been really kind of I think played to the line of what is legal and that we out you know our biggest Achilles heels always been not reacting to what the risk actually blown and rather just getting frustrated like you can't do that as opposed to saying like oh well they're doing it so we're going to do ourself so many we can all think back to 2011 semi quarterfinal but like. You know we've happened a million times against Ireland or you know this weekend it's all like they're just in a place that's just all over the place and coming from the sides and stuff and you like we don't push those boundaries. Naturally as well I don't think and I don't know that's a controversial take but like. I just don't think that's an a facet of our our game you know we don't hit people as high for example. Well you're on mute the tackles have been another another area but you're full what did you want to say.

25:05I was going to say like I used to think and maybe this was harsh that it was because we were just a little bit less clever I was going to say dama but less clever sounds better and that is because you know just like struggling to adapt to different referees interpretations and it's still something that you need to do but it's I think it's been a big focus of russia and his team since they came in. Especially at the World Cup but you know throughout his tenure just being able to you know figure out who the riff is which is why I think this week was really tough because of that late change as well so the referee obviously God know wasn't supposed to ref at first but it's such a big part of rugby is you know you got to play the referee because every riff interprets things slightly differently and we've gotten a lot better at that which is one of the reason why the spring box is so much better than they were you know before I see. Yeah so I mean I think this I probably agree with that a lot I think previously we were maybe bad because we were just not super game smarter now I think it's like we are just very aware of the rules and but you know like I mean there's there was multiple things on both sides that he just wasn't blood you know like the fact that they were 13 panels he's total in a game and I think we only can see that second penalty like the 50th minute was something stupid like yeah.

26:22Like I know we try to play a clean game but I mean come on that is just instead when was a lot of a national team like five panels only like it's just it's just and and as a proof it doesn't make the game better like this game wasn't more enjoyable because it was more ball and play time than in Joe like the game wasn't better because he didn't blow scrum penalties like if anything we wasted far more time at scrum because he wasn't blowing them so it's like I think it kind of just highlights that like a lot of the kind of false metrics and KPIs that people are checking out. So that's just amazing when they like trying to define what what makes a good game is very silly you know like ball and play does not mean a good game like a million tries does not necessarily mean a good game a low penalty count does not mean a good game you know again there's a million key to some sure that all like damn we wish the TMO came in for that first try and I think at the end of the day people appreciate accuracy from a referee's perspective and they want players to play clean you know which means and you know I'm fortunate to do that is to blow people than a cheating you know if that's a good game.

27:22People can't on the side because people's blind on the side of the rack is it means you know yeah and even though also then accuracy I think is just consistency because it's just like at least if you're doing one thing the whole time to like do it for the same for like across the board for both teams but when you start doing things differently in the same match then it just all falls apart. I mean I don't know if you was doing things differently in fairness to you I mean it's just question. No, no, I don't think so. I think there was one there's one place where he was certainly giving more focus to one team than another but that was only one area I think in general I just think he wasn't there he just wasn't I think he went into the game with a mindset of I'm not going to blow my whistle. And then he didn't. Do you think he was pressurized other than by you know whether it's New Zealand press or coaches do you think there's any pressure coming up coming from like people he has to report to like World Rugby to try and riff that way. Well I don't think so because I mean you know Matt Carly is reporting the same people and he had no issue with blowing New Zealand in a nine times in the first half and hour last week so like I don't think that is necessarily it.

28:33I think certainly Angus Gardner is coming from a super rugby background and they do have mandates on how you know to not blow their whistle. So maybe he's but carrying a bit of legacy about that I don't know how he blew in July just but certainly in super rugby there's a lot of focus on not blowing penalties and trying to let the boys play. And that's why I think that going into this this series that the Gardner game was always going to be the toughest one because that's going to be the one when you see that we're going to have the mostly way to do. Sneaky stuff and you know like they didn't get they played a lot of stuff. That's sort of the South because he just doesn't blow his whistle so yeah I don't know what the cause is there but I think like a referee that's just letting every player lie all over the place or putting my hands on it and like you know the same thing. And I like you know the scrums is a great example and I'll get into my I've ran to the second about what it was actually appeared to be blowing but the fact that you're having a committee meeting at every single scrum resetting every single scrum five times like if so if whatever the one team is doing is so illegal that you need to talk to them constantly.

29:45How like just blow it in like you're not going to have a committee meeting to change someone's opinion like you know Andrew how many times the parliament to this and please don't invest or steal many or bribe people is only when you start slapping find some people who actually changed the barrier. Like they don't they do not change their behavior come on let's get real. Okay maybe maybe maybe speeding in your car like as many as many signs that say driving the 60s you want but until you stop putting a speed camera there people aren't really going to slow down that much. The point is is that like if you having five reset to every scrum is not good for anybody spring box don't want to go back to one of the fan that want that but if you thought what the spring was doing was cheating and you just blew them a couple of penalties like guarantee their behavior would change quite quickly. And because you know they don't really have an option because I think like they were clearly didn't think that they what they were doing was in the wrong. But you know we can get on that in a second but I think there's definitely like there is a solution to changing behavior is actually putting some kind of punishment on the bad behavior you know that's why New Zealanders still tackle high because they've never been blown by tackling.

30:48And that's why we didn't change the way we're scrumming on Saturday because you weren't penalizing. Do you want to go to wash on the state of the toilet last week about his ref management. Colisey was there for 42 minutes. Conor member who took over the captain see after that I assume it was Peter staff. And did see a new notice of the better job this week and we're talking a lot about the ref but. It's also a captain see role in that right. I think he saw him talking to the ref like he was trying to engage a lot. And again it's difficult from the state of the stands because you can't hear what's happening and you're suggesting to see the same vehicle but it certainly looked like. See it was engaging with the ref a lot but also look back they were like four or five years in this warming him a lot as well. Yeah I also I'm not sure how effective he was given also in the stands so you for you Andrew do you think. Came he came across quite well.

31:49I didn't see it as much I know that in the scrumming situations once ox was on a used complaining quite a bit from his point at 35 minutes onwards and which is really where the problem started. But I didn't see see that so much in the rift yeah and then the second half I didn't like I said I can't actually even remember who was the captain so clearly they were not making a great impression in terms of. Evident leadership on the field. Yeah but I think like there wasn't there was enough to really complain to the ref about you know like he was clearly. Seeing stuff because you was coaching players not the dirt but like it wasn't. Clear and obvious things that were strange and should we talk briefly about the scrums just because that's been it has been such a big talking point. You know and there's been a million articles that have kind of come out of the summary videos and what not. Yeah we don't have to rehash everything that's been said but I thought you you had some cool insights before we had record.

32:54Well I mean yeah less analysis than I was hoping to have done I suppose the back story or backdrop that triggers everything was then obviously before the first test. Really was going on about like then it's after the first case really was going on about this is Africans you know we're walking around at the scrum time and that's why we have dominance. You know and then you know kind of come out again after this one saying no we're going to send some clips again they're still definitely walking around. And you know like that is an issue that spring works need to deal with and that request was then put to Russi who kind of just blew up about it which you know I was quite appreciative of because. He really kind of blew up in a way that I think reflected a lot of certainly my mood. And I think maybe maybe this will come through a bit more strongly in our wrap up of the series which is just kind of the style parts of this. Of the tour and the kind of the rivalry is like yes obviously it's I think on the field it's you know respect and everything but I think the media outlets and fair enough on bars but there hasn't been maybe as respectful and big man as a good big.

34:05But Russi blew up saying this is nonsense like we've never been had a conversation about this in however many years have been scrumming like and if you really want to get like into details about refs not being on the ball like talk about the five high shots in the first half. Like let's talk about the last line up and that just clearly skewed like you know there's a lot of like very blatant but obvious things that we can talk about before we go into you know some potentially quite minor things which I think it was quite about a point and really to speak speaks to the fact that like this. New Zealand and really I think quite quite a lot as well as comes to come into this to it was quite a hurry than now attitude of you know we are the save is a rugby and we're going to play rugby the right way and we're at the right way anyway. But yeah since then obviously there's been a lot of kind of analysis from both sides and what's been going on scrums. I've started to look into just because I think it's you know I find it quite interesting obviously a form of a front but the three or four times I managed to check out before the pod started is.

35:07And incredibly minor like if you look at the dialogue boxes of what Angus was saying how much he was talking and you actually look at what the what what he's talking about and I think it's probably useful to to understand you know once we're going to have this walking around thing like. Certainly when I heard that that was the issue I thought that means kind of your your your your loose area title normal your loose head is kind of taking a step out and round and and in a course that wheel and like to cheer you're tired away from from opposition hooker and you know that's by definition that the point of you know you made to set square and scrum straight. I assume that that what you're talking about which is odd because like that's not what South African's peer to they seem to be a to scrum pretty square and straight through most teams but like. Then it came up that no he was the issue was the break for it in that marks and and for you're moving the break foot before the before the hit. And that's what you know what's coming through in the comments if you read through the transcripts actually looking at the actual movement and. The foot movement that he's complaining about is a literal like two inch adjustment to the break foot as they engage so the the he's calling the mark the players are setting.

36:14But no couple of times that I got to through so far learn access and ready setting up too far to the right he's setting was head on Thomas Detroit and. And anyway he's calling crowd find on the set there's an engage and then Marx is and doing for your moving their foot literally they break with literally two inches back or to the side like this which is. The most common movement is literally just finding a little bit of stability because that's the whole point of the break foot is to try to control the hit to make sure that you're not like. Over the aggressive on the hit and therefore the scrum is stability the point is that you get your break foot then to the ball comes in so just try and make sure that the hits a bit deep out and you've got that that stability and the contest can start in the war comes in. Like that is the most normal movement in the world and. I can't see how that is affecting the entire alignment of the scrum enough to give one side such disproportionate dominance that they've been running through opposition for five years like if you can.

37:14Get that much dominance with such a tiny thing first the house no analyst that I picked this up before and why I know that he's doing this and secondly like. I think if that's your your kryptonite is that if a hooker is moving his foot by two inches you've probably got other weaknesses in the scrum and all of this is ignoring the fact that on New Zealand's hit and New Zealand's feed every single one of them. As soon as the ball was in they were immediately panicking straight into the floor and then therefore the ball comes out the back table and they play on but like. Why are you only collapsing on your own ball like it's a very. Straight you know you collapse on the springboard to be a penalty to spring box because that's collecting the scrum it's on the table for us and we want to come through we're going to keep the ball and but on their ballable can't playable they're collapsing to prevent the push through. And it seems you know in the fact that it was such a blatant pattern is collapsing only on your own ball where you're not going to get penalized for collapsing does seem very very very strange and quite a blatant tactic from Zealand that would appear but yeah coming back to the back table. Like you're blowing up over what is literally a two inch movement on a foot to try and get some stability in the scrum like does seem incredibly strange that that is this entire big spring box scrumming controversy.

38:26Yeah and then you have reset after reset no one gets actually penalized for anything and then you end up with a scrum where admittedly severe and rogue on played it really nicely up the back. They rescued a lot of scrums by just getting up all out of there quickly and making sure that we didn't have to make a decision. That was also last week but this week I mean that you know once the ball was going to front of us with down the ball was at the back they could take as long as they wanted to play it because we can't push anymore world you know we've been pulled into the floor like. So they just they took all they took the entire option a way of us putting pressure on their feed out of the equation by going to ground because if they're if if a scrum is down to the ball in the balls of the back gardens calling play it. But we obviously can't keep pushing and so it doesn't put the pressure on them to play quickly like they would if they were the scrum was staying up. So that's what I'm saying it was it would appear to be a very deliberate tactic on their own feed to negate being attacked at the scrum because why were they just not collapsing on our feeds you know what I mean like.

39:29Yeah. It's very odd that it was such a clear pattern one way and not the other. Just the as you said the dialogue between God and the fronters it was just such an echo of what Drinny was saying during the week. It just it seems to be coincidental that's probably enough on the scrums. I don't know what you think. Yeah, I mean I've invented my piece but yeah, I just just find it weird fixation. But yeah, I mean look we do have another test this weekend. What are the kind of key learning teachers going to take we've always the analysis team that only changes is our answers back on the wing and call these shifted the fullback. Do we think that's the right call for themselves and what changes we're going to see in New Zealand. We're going to be working on the voices talking about Ethan blackhead needs to come in after his performance against the lions and people saying rico maybe onto the bench because Josh movie wasn't used. They stopped to see the chat about the other person Taylor is what to do with my and yeah Luke Jacobson is he just waiting for a red card.

40:36What do we what do we reckon of the out even the potential team on this side. I think I think Colby to fall back seemed like the only real choice to be made. I mean, I imagine there's a small school that may want to see someone like Fassi come in given he's a you know another fallback option. But yeah, as I say small school. I wonder what that that school must be. So having Colby as 15 you know, I think he's he hasn't started much for the spring box, but whenever he's played there he's you know he's never given us any issues or never let us down. He's always looked pretty good there and then given hookah was as we said we at least thought he had a good game on the weekend. So then being able to bring an answer it makes sense to me. Andrew, you happy with that choice to. Yeah, I thought our answer was unlucky given the chiseling miraculously recovered from his injury and could take his place in the team.

41:41Kale out Kale was unlucky not not to play this past week. So I'm glad to see him back. I didn't do anything in the first test to deserve to be dropped I think. He plays the game playing nice. Right. He played for a minute, Sydney. Well, could you do? I can't remember. Anyway, his concussion was like the first 10th 10th wasn't it on the first try? Did you see that? I don't think it was that early. It was like 10 15 I think maybe 10. Pretty pretty early in the end. Oh, he definitely didn't do anything to deserve to be dropped because he didn't do very much. But he does generally pick himself up and he's got a pretty incredible track scoring rate I think among the best we've ever had in his 35 on tests or so. So he's a great selection on the wing. Fullback like you say fast. He's probably any other guy in the squad other than Sasha that covers 15. Well, he's not there anymore. Sadly, hopefully we don't have any cia or helium ears or anything like that in the squad.

42:44I guess Q and honours, but we've never seen him at 15 for the box. It doesn't really. Yeah, Q and hon was probably a consideration, but in terms of who you really played. I mean, I think we'll see one of Kona or Fassi maybe on the plane to Baltimore with a 15 jersey. But we'll see that's that's for next week's pod. Even after St. Vox lives. Let's go there. No, let's look in the scene of the let's not go there. We need to let's not go there. It's not going to happen. It's fine. So I think Bobby was the right call under the circumstance. And who's on there's no who's on the bench for backline positions. I've forgotten. It's money. Estes and and more than again. Sam, Sam. Okay, so Manny can cover 15 at a push or suppose Sasha's probably. Sasha, Sasha, Sasha. Yeah, I do, I do think it's terrible from last week for New Zealand to not use mobile of the bench like.

43:45Right, be such a squad 23 man game these days that it's just fixed like bad game management or something. More than he bad selections. Yeah, because I want to say you're basically saying I'm picking this guy in case someone gets injured not to make an impact. Yeah, because otherwise you would have bought him on the field. Yeah. And that just seems like a weird. Like thing to do from an insurance box office, especially because what is movie covers, you know, wing and fullback that you've got. Well, Jordan, you cover swing. So like rather just put some like a Rico arguably who can cover the wing and center. And then if you do this, a fullback, then you move Jordan. You know, it's like if you're doing it purely from a from a bet like an injury covering perspective, there's better choices than it will be anyway. So yeah, it's just just weird. I find it weird when it catches unless it's like a camera, which case is just clearly not, obviously like you're going to keep him on the field as long as you can. He's just just treated it in anyone else like fair, but like what's the point of a movie on your bench if you're not going to use them.

44:50I will say Pristin has impressed me much more than I thought he would just because I don't think he's very good and he's actually been pretty good when he's come off the. I mean, really good on this to but also like his opposition is Ratano who's like I think it's just really that it has excited me ever. But the the loose forward talk for the all black. This is a weird one because you know, bringing in black at a I'll be happy for them to do that like from a springbok perspective. Yeah, parkers like a pretty uninspiring option, but he's like their biggest guy. They were like raising about parkers performance. I didn't see him do anything interesting. I mean, that's a thing he's like their biggest guys. So he he was like pretty much tasked with making sure we said didn't get as many meters as last week, which he didn't. But I mean, he was still a he still got over the advantage line. He just didn't break through as easily as he did the previous week. So if that's your you know main metric then yeah, well done. And maybe black at a will do better at that. Maybe you won't, but it's not like they're solving the issues really at the loose forward, you know.

45:59I mean, I feel like if your job is just in Mark, yes, but we said for 18 minutes, you need to go on one of those like net geo world's shittiest jobs. It's an awful thing to have to do for your occupation. Try and tackle the us, but we said painful jobs 101. I hope you get some hazard pay for that. Yeah, but he said was good again. She said guys, nine unstoppable and he runs in with 100% intent every single time. Y'know, he is just super super good. I wouldn't be surprised to see them put two per way back at six though and play another lock bringing Josh Lord. Maybe dairy. I feel like dairy. Dairy is being good enough on to I don't know having dairy and Holland together maybe is a bit too similar. Not sure. Same same.

46:59There's an old man Pat there as well. He's pretty effective. He's been decent on tour. I don't know, they don't have, you know, when New Zealand had the likes of Ritalic and Sam Whitelock and even thinking back to guys like really old school at Chris Jack, like they had guys who were intimidating and you know, we'd get an edge, but they don't seem to have those kinds of locks they disposal at the moment. I don't know if I feel like the locks are the issues. I still feel it might be more the loose forward. Like the Simon Parker, the Luke Jacobs in position where of course the ID is world class, you know. But to get the balance right around the ID, it just feels like they're not like I think Holland is you know last week, especially put its hand up. He was really good. I think he was decent enough this week again, but I think you know, it's a bit had a much better game and looked the best lock on the field.

48:01But I don't know. That's why I don't think that they can solve the issue by bringing in like black at a four Parker or bringing in Peter Luck I to start like he's good impact there, but he's not going to change the direction of the match. I think it is one of our strengths where our forwards in general, but I'll go forward ball our point of collision is so much stronger than there's at the moment. Yeah, well, no, if you take away you take away a Jasper and a Peter Steph. If it's a big drop off there for the box as well, but there would be I mean those are probably the two best players in their positions in the world. So you'd expect there to be a drop off. Yeah, I think it's I mean we are spoiled there, but you know, it's going to be also need to be aware of like. The depth isn't as big in all those positions, you know, there's a big drop from Peter Steph to B.J. Dixon or from B. So the Hanukkah was a racist quite quick to point out that that.

49:04But John, I think like the kind of wraps up us as our review of last week and probably enough of a preview for this week and score predictions are we going to at least win our half of the trophy this weekend. We're going to defend the Rayburn as we are holders of that. No, that's pretty cool and that. Yeah, it's going to be online for two weeks and around a matter what. Yeah, I mean just aside from score predictions, the annoying thing about. Losing the first test and winning this one is that we're going to have to wake up at 3 a.m. in two weeks time to watch the test in Baltimore. Yeah, shooting off. I thought it was like midnight at least, but I don't even know. Yeah, that's bad enough. Yeah, I mean, it's it's all sucks, but yeah, I mean, I think we would watch it anyway, even if Curehorn's flag 50. If we could win three at home, then I don't think I would stay up for the game. I'd watch it, you know, pre-recorded the next day, but now we're going to have to step anyway.

50:05It's an 11. It's not even that late. It's going to be late, but time finishes, but anyway, maybe I'm just old. It's just like it's just standard French game, which I generally don't watch either. Score predictions, I think the box will get some more reward for the scrums. I think we'll carry on improving and I'm thinking we'll be at our base of the three games. So I'm going to say box by 12. I'm thinking quite similarly, to be honest, like, you know, we saw that first game. There was the dominance was there without putting the final touches on it. Basically, we were shocked by a couple of things, maybe also from New Zealand, but growing into the series more and more, you would hope and think. And I think that, you know, we'll make that dominance count a bit more. So yeah, I think we'll be a little bit more comfortable than last week.

51:07We'll have learned some things as well as we'll New Zealand, but I think we'll be able to push forward our strengths more than they will. So box by 10. Yeah, I think we have just like I did off to the first week. I think we were a lot we were nearly as bad as people thought we were. I think New Zealand wasn't nearly as good as people made them out to be. And I think the second just kind of showed that. And I think like again, the closest of the score line is potentially a bit of an illusion given. Our different approaches to scoring, you know, I think there's this a lot more ruthless. And so we can apply and I think we've just got a lot more dominance and a lot more areas of the basics. Like I think New Zealand will score long range. I think we'll be able to try against us, but I don't think you can rely on that as your primary scoring mode. So yeah, I think I'm hoping that you know, it will be also kind of a 10 to 15 point win, which should be. Be very nice.

52:08And yeah, other in last thoughts before we kind of just wrap up the last couple of last couple of points there. The springpot woman of playing. Historic first test between South African New Zealand on South African soil, which I thought was quite surprising, but cool. So he just got into that at echelon so fair enough, but yeah, yeah, but given that we have the greatest drive rebate in the nation. So I just thought they would have made a pattern and we probably would have been thumbed if we. Yeah, I think last year we played two matches, but they weren't this and they were against like a black fern 15 or something. I think they're going to have to have a better time. So yeah, as I'm says, it's a bit one side of given New Zealand is so strong, but we have improved, you know, we went to Fiji in one twice. So hopefully that stands us in good said. It's it's at 130 on Saturday. It always frustrates me that it's so far ahead of the men's match, but it sort of has to be for reasons, but it just means no one's really going to, you know, they're going to get a crowd of maybe a couple of thousand at most.

53:14There's no one's going to really want to go and sit on the stadium for six hours or whatever it is. My match is bad. It's probably more than six hours. Exactly. Yeah, I think that'll be an interesting game. I mean, the last time we played them was in the World Cup quarter final. The Inbook was first stock up to World Cup game. And if you guys remember, it was 10 all the time. And the Springboks did that 13 man line art and the, you know, jump to the mall in the open play and the New Zealand woman made over 200 tackles in that game. It was like incredibly physical and it was a really cool spectacle. I think eventually New Zealand did run away with it and scored a bunch of tries in the last 20 minutes, but it was an interesting game. And hopefully there's some entertainment value to it as well. It's a really good good yardstick to see how the ladies are getting on. Yeah, I really have to pay.

54:14You know, it can be competitive or they think the New Zealand women did pump Australian women. I think the world has three because we before so they do they are coming with some form as well. And spring Australia, they played they're playing their kind of. Want to be to a games in the sergeant team that no, I don't think anyone's really paying much attention to. But then they they take them on. I'm getting out here in the list. Kiss now. I mean, obviously two, two wins of Japan, one win over Argentina in Argentina, which is, you know, not not the easiest place to play. And so yeah, are they, I don't know if you guys caught it. Is there anything really to report? I don't think it was the flashiest of wins, but you know, getting the job done. And that's a fixture they famously have struggled with in the past. So Australia building towards a surprise, blood, a slow absolute given. New Zealand might be hung over from the rivalry to traveling around the world. Well, Australia, you can slowly build in the background. How does blood, a slow work this year?

55:15How many matches is it? I assume two. And now they're fit three games and because they Australia was playing again. It's that's obviously. That's what I thought it might even be one interesting. Yeah. I think Argentina is a weird one given that they're not playing like full strength, even against us. You know, they were missing so many players. I don't really know how their system works in terms of, you know, letting people go outside of windows. I mean, this shouldn't, I feel like this for the Southern hemisphere is our sort of international window. So I, yeah, I don't know if it's just they've chosen to let a lot of players, a lot of their more established players not play. And they're trying to play younger players ahead of. I don't know, World Cup next year, but given that their team at the World Cup probably will look very different to, you know, the one that played it this weekend or even the squad. It's hard to tell what's really going on there, but. It's not fun. I'm sure to lose for them. So good for Australia. You know, they're putting wins together as you say and building confidence.

56:16Are you saying there would be to lose? Sure. Sorry. And. Yeah, well, we'll see. I just hope we're not too hungover a loss, a random loss in. The greatest points. I did see a horrible travel thing about spring box apparently traveling straight from Baltimore to Perth. So. And there's like two weeks in between, which is a bit weird. So yeah, it's just a lot of travel. Spring box doing that to me. It's not fun. I mean, that's where you're going to see Q1 Hall and Fassi playing 10 and 15 are. I reckon they they're going to go straight from South Africa. I don't recognize they go to Baltimore. That's what I would have done if I was mercy. Send a. Send a different squad basically. I guess the only thinking is like it's in Perth World Cup next year. We'll be playing matches on Perth probably like you want to get players a little bit of climatized to.

57:16Flying to Australia. I'm trying that whole. Feel. Yeah, I would assume players have been to Australia enough times. I don't know. And just didn't even meet there. We're used to being traveling on the road, but, but, but. Yeah, I mean. It's always a good thing. And that's what we told the French that they should practice more. So. Okay. And but cool. I think that's probably probably about wraps it up there. Yeah, I think it's really exciting for this weekend. Oh, yes, the Lions gave a really good account. This also I think scared the all blacks. Do you think the Lions actually just roughed all blacks up and that's the way we were able to meet them for a change? No, because it was a completely different team. Okay. I think the Lions are sure why they were shield champions there, you know, that we are the South African shield holders. So just showed that even without spring box, yes, that is. I'd take that on the chin, but because we had fewer spring box, but even given that, you know, they probably played the best out of all the teams against the old blacks.

58:23Yeah, I mean, the black should have lost that like bloody high and Andrews intercept pass. I can hire and. I'm your boy. I reluctantly held them for too long too many times in fantasy. I still carry those carry those scars. So no, I'm not supporting him. His success at the Lions shame. No, that's that's harsh, but. He must be better. That's hope so. Yeah. Yeah, all right. Well, cool. Let's wrap it up there and we'll chat to you all next week. Hopefully celebrating. At least. At raw in the series. What? Well, we win this weekend. We can we can we can't lose the series. So we can already celebrate at least a draw. If we win this weekend, we get presented out half of the trophy. I mean, if we win Baltimore, then we win thereafter the trophy as well. Are you sure that's how it works?

59:23I mean, I know it can be split into two, but are you sure that if we win this weekend, they will give us a heart? That's what I would do. I would just take half. I'm like, well, you can't have this. I don't think that it's easy. But it's like, no, but it's it is now our half like this is not yours. All you can do next week is go for the other one. Like how do we know which half is which? I assume like the claims one is golden one is green. I mean, I hope if like the tournament name is written on the trophy, I want the half that is greatest and not the half that is rival. What if it's what if it says like greatest rival, re so you just get great great great. Yeah, or is green. Yeah, we do want you want S3 or you want great great. Great, it sounds like something like Gen Z would say. So it sounds more positive than is.

1:00:24Yeah, let's hope that they haven't messed it up. Let's just hope we can take both sides of it and we don't have to worry about it. That's plan A. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's definitely the right approach. All right, cool. We the first time let's wrap this up. Um, but you're hopefully we are. Yeah, as positive next week as we all this week and no one has any complaints about me in the process. Cheers. Cool. Thanks guys.