EXCLUSIVE: How a Tiny Nation Is Defying Beijing and Defending Its Sovereignty | President Surangel Whipps Jr.

0:00Every time I have meetings with the Chinese, what they've done is they first tell me how wonderful they are. And then they turn around and say, well, if you don't behave, we'll beat you up. A key strategic location in what's known as the Second Island Chain, Palau is once the site of World War II's bloodiest Pacific Battle. Now Palau is one of only 12 nations that diplomatically recognized Taiwan, and one of only three with the unique relationships with the United States, known as the Compact of Free Association. Because of our location, we're always going to be the center of interest. We were always a bull's eye. With the population of only 18,000 people, how does Palau maintain its identity and sovereignty? On the ground in Palau for over a week, I've found some answers. We believe that every country that has a right to self-determine, we're grateful for the United States for doing that. To be really being a responsible nation and giving us that right, giving us the freedom of choice.

1:01And you know, maybe that comes also from our spiritual growth. God gave us the power of choice. Today is the down with Palau and President Srirangal-Wipz, Jr. This meth crisis or cocaine crisis is not only happening in Palau, it's happening all across the Pacific. We know most of it comes on flights that come from Macau and Hong Kong. Palau has a lot of potential and it's being unlocked in the private sector, but guess by whom? This is American Thought Leaders and I'm Janie Kellek. President Srirangal-Wipz, Jr. Such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Pleasure is all ours and welcome to Palau. I've had an absolutely incredible experience here over the past week or so. And one of the things I've learned is that you were born in Baltimore. But you actually gave up your American citizenship so you could serve here.

2:01And I want to get a sense from you, what does Palau, what does this place mean to you? The Palau in Constitution is very clear. You can only be Palau if your mother or your father is Palau. And then if you run for public office, you can only be Palau. I was born in Baltimore. My parents met there. My mother is from Frederick, Maryland. My father convinced her after they finished college to move back to the Pacific. They actually first went to Pontipay for a year and then we moved back to Palau. And I was only four years old and we've been here since except for going to university. So when the time came, I had to give up my US citizenship or my, basically the ability to become a US citizen. You know, I talked to my mother about it. And the reality is we've lived here basically all our lives.

3:02And my mother said this is our home. So even though it felt at one point, it was giving up, having to give up half of me. She understood that this is our home and this is what we've made it. So I feel blessed to be a Palau to live in this, we call it pristine paradise. And one of the things that my father always believed in was he went to school but he wanted to come back to help this country develop. And he had a very rough time growing up. His father passed away when he was only one. And then as both his step-parents died, adopted parents, who he caused parents. By the time he was seven and then he kept on moving from family to family. He even tells a story of when he went to get on a ship to go to Guam. There was nobody to see him off so he went to the other side of the vessel. But he still felt this burning desire to come back.

4:02And it wasn't easy growing up here. My mother of course coming from Maryland, it was quite a culture shock. But you know some of the things that maybe she enjoyed there helped us start our family business, which we got into groceries and everything from making sure that we have cheese or lettuce or certain kinds of things on the shelf kind of helped influence the way we ran our business. So I have to say that mix of culture, mix opportunities, a lot of us to grow up in a very challenging at the beginning, but really a land of opportunity. And so that mindset is really what helped for me going, I did go to university that was my goal. Go to get a education, come back as soon as I could, help our family business, but eventually give back. And to create those opportunities that my father saw, and my father always said, we've been able to be successful here in Palau.

5:03We should try to ensure that every child here that grows up knows that there is potential in Palau. And the opportunity is really up to you to carve out. But government should not be impeding. It should be helping support that land of opportunity. And that's why our slogan is Palau in first, but really it's about building the Palau in dream. People grow up and they want to live the American dream. We want kids to understand that Palau in dream is better. Well, and I understand that's actually a challenge here because of, and we'll talk about the compacts of the association. Palau has an usual ability to travel to the United States to live there to work, to serve in the military, which they do just in disproportionate amounts for the population, all of that. But in some of them, maybe don't want to come back as quickly, but you did. You wanted to be here. And I want to understand at a deeper level where that comes from,

6:06even though there's this lure of the, you know, of huge opportunity, say, in America and elsewhere. You know, there's something about being part of nation building. Being part of something that you can make a big difference in. When I was in grad school at UCLA, my classmates at the time, I was getting my MBAs, so a lot of them were going to New York for our interviews. They were, you know, Silicon Valley. This is back in 92, so that's where most of the jobs were. And then they asked me, why are you not interviewing? I said, no, I came here to go to school, but I, my plan was to go back home, help our family business, and then eventually serve the public. And I think my father said it best. He says, don't you want to be a big fish in a small pond, then just a fish in a big pond? So I think that's really the opportunity you have if you come back home.

7:11You can make a difference in your community. And, you know, that's what we want to help our young people understand. The problem is, you're right. They see you're making $5 an hour, you get off of playing California, you're working on McDonald's and making $20 an hour. But that $20 an hour in California, and you're paying $2,500 a month for rent for a two-bedroom house. You know, you have to put things in perspective or so much for insurance. And so I think a lot of it is sometimes people think that the opportunity is great, but you have to put everything in perspective. One of the things I've been working hard here is trying to raise wages, trying to create opportunities that our kids can see that there is a future. Because unfortunately, two-thirds of our population has moved to the United States over the last 50 years, and partly because of the military. And so one of the things that I've been working hard on is trying to get the US to understand the importance of giving veterans benefits to those who have served to bring them back.

8:14Because they have the skills, my father served in the US Army. They can really contribute to nation-building, and just having that confidence to come back home and be able to avail those services is key. We're getting there. It was in this last compact. I think the veterans' administration is finally seeing the light. But it's also a security issue. If you think about security, these are the people that you want to give bring back to the islands. Because they have the values, they have the understanding of what it means to fight for freedom and democracy. And that's the kind of people you want here. Palau is in these compacts of free association with two other countries across the Pacific. It's a very unique treaty, a deep, deep relationship. I think unique in the world. And so the American presence is significant in different ways. And I guess you'd help me understand how that manifests here.

9:15It's intertwined with everything from the people to people relations. To begin with the Peace Corps, for example. I know there's so many Peace Corps that have had a huge impact in Palau from our minister of education, who came in the 70s, was a teacher, went in and lived in Guam and Saipan, Marida Palau, and came back to retire and helped us reform our education system. My favorite story is just a Peace Corps that Marida Palau and he was a librarian here, when he got his PhD in computer science, and then created an online Palau Indictionary, where you can just go in and type any word and translate to Palau and English and vice versa. So the American influence runs deep, and then it's Heichief Rekli, who's now 94 years old, who was a retired Marine, or Heichief Iberto, who passed away, who was also in the Army,

10:20and my father, who was also in the Army. So you have that influence, and then you have just what the US has done over the years to help us develop. One of the things people come and when we were going up to the PIF leaders meeting up north, we wrote on the compact road, and they said it's a beautiful road. So yeah, that was built by the United States under the compact, and it was a compact, we call it the compact road. It's actually been up for 20 years, but it makes a difference when you have the right specs, good engineering, and it was built really as the interstate system in the US. One of the specs was the Kary M1 tanks, for example. But I think a lot of times there's a lot of rhetoric and people that are concerned, because of course people have the memories of World War II, as you know, Pellalu is the scenes of one of the bloodiest battles.

11:22I think the US's worst casualty rate of any war or battle. That experience, that lived experience for Pellalu, makes us want to live in peace and harmony and not experience that again. But the reality is, if you think that way, that's good. But because of our location, we're always going to be the center of interest, geopolitical interest. And so I think what's important is you have to find the right partners to work with, that you share the same values, freedom, democracy, rule of law, and Pellalu made that decision with the compact. And that decision was to give our security and denial rights to the United States. And a lot of people say, well that's just for the protection in the United States, but I think we also need to understand it. It also is for our own protection. When I first met with the US military, we have a what we call JCM meetings,

12:24joint committee meetings, twice a year with the Defense Department. And the first thing they showed me was they showed a map of the Pacific, they showed all the FAS, and they said, Pellalu is protected just like it's part of the homeland. And I think that's an important message for people to understand that the protection of Pellalu is just like the United States, which is just like WOM or CNMI or California. That's this fear that we're in. And in order for us to be a good partner with the United States to ensure the security of the United States, but also of Pellalu is radar sites. People say, well we've become a bullseye. We were always a bullseye. That's I think an important thing that we need to remember. The United States wants to improve our ports, or they want to improve our airports. Well, that is a good thing because if the United States is ready and capable to defend, we're protected.

13:25And I think that's something that we need to help people understand because a lot of times they don't understand that. And if you want prosperity and you want growth, you need peace. And the bottom line is I believe in the theory that President Reagan said was, if you want peace, it comes through strength. And President Trump says the same thing. And I think that's an important message for people to understand. This false security that you think that if we're just out here in the Pacific and nobody's going to be interested in us, we can just live and be happy. To me is a false sense of security. We need to understand that the world that we live in, there's always going to be competition. And that's why it's so important that we choose our friends and choose our friends carefully. And then work with them to ensure that they are strong and able and that we can continue to maintain the present prosperity that we have. It's very interesting you describe Pellalu as a bullseye. And as we're speaking, we're going to put up a little map of the area so people can see exactly where Pellalu is located in the Second Island chain.

14:34And why it's of such strategic importance to the United States, but not just to the United States potentially. This was the seat of where the Japanese government said that. I was a South-Sese headquarters for Japan. That's right. And of course there's other powers that are also very interested, which is I'm going to talk, I'm going to read back something that you told me when we first met in front of the one stop shop earlier because I thought it was very pointed. You said you're talking about an interaction you had with the Chinese envoy. And you said if you want someone to love you, usually you come with chocolates and nice cards. But these guys start with one street word and if you don't behave, they slap you. And they say that's love, but that's not partnership. And you're talking about the importance of partners. So flesh that out for me a little bit. Well, you know, in partnership, it's just like marriage. Or just like when you're courting somebody.

15:34I mean, you know, you try to understand each other. You try to find ways that, well, if you're ruined someone, you definitely want them to understand what your good qualities are. And you definitely want to show that affection, but that's not what we've experienced. Every time I have meetings with the Chinese, what they've done is they first tell me how wonderful they are. And then they turn around and say, well, if you don't behave, we'll beat you up. So I don't know how that translates into trying to woo somebody, but usually that's not the way you woo somebody. That's usually how you end up in prison for beating your wife or other things. So this is what I see as a challenge. And, you know, they've told us, oh, we can build all the hotels you want, bring you a million tourists. But then if you don't switch, then we'll cut off the tourists. I mean, this has been the narrative.

16:39And just if I may, just that when you're talking about switching, you're talking about this diplomatic recognition from Taiwan to the mainland. And they keep on saying what we're doing is illegal. You have to stop doing illegal activities. Or the one China principle. Well, obviously, Palao recognizes Taiwan. So one China principle doesn't apply in Palao. It only applies in countries that recognize China. It doesn't apply in Palao. But they continue to tell us that what you're doing is illegal. Well, we believe that every country that has a right to self-determine should be allowed that right. Like us as a small country, we're able to say we're part of the UN. We have a voice even though we're small. But, you know, I was talking to the Chinese diplomat. And we were talking about our extended continental shell, for example. And I would say, well, you know, there seems to be a misunderstanding on at your government's level about our claim on the continental shell.

17:41Maybe we can help us on it. And finally, they got upset at me and they said, well, you're a small country. You shouldn't have so much ocean. I thought that's an interesting way of putting it. Or you're a small country. We're a big country. Okay. We're still countries. But that's just the way they think. I think in this global world that we live in, the mutual respect, rule of law, and the rules that we operate are so important. I'll put it this way. Not everybody in the region, when it comes to these countries, or not everybody in the world seems to be willing to challenge Communist China the way that you have. At least, you know, simply about sovereignty, which is what you're talking about here. I believe. And I'm trying to understand. I see this more broadly among Polo and people, as I've been here, for this week and speaking with them.

18:50And I want to get a sense of where that comes from, because there seems to be a deficit of courage in the world. Well, you know, if I go back to when I was young, there was a big debate in Polo. First, that right to self-determination. There was people that said, we should be a Commonwealth or we should be a U.S. territory. And then there was the overwhelming support for independence. In fact, at the time it was Yankees go home, or signs going around, because there was this desire. You know, Polo, for 3,500 years, we were self-coverting. And then the Spanish showed up, well, the British and the Spanish showed up with the Spanish showed up and said, oh, Polo is part of Spain. So we're Western Carolina Islands. We didn't have a choice, but they sent the missionaries here, and we were part of Spain.

19:50And then they needed money, so they sold us to the Germans. We didn't have a choice on that either. And then World War One ended, and then the League of Nations says, oh, you're part of Japan now. And then came the United States after World War II. And finally, the United States said, well, you're only a trust territory, so we'll help you on your route to become independent. We're grateful for the United States for doing that, to be really being a responsible nation, and giving us that right, giving us the freedom of choice. And you know, maybe that comes also from our spiritual growth. God gave us the power of choice. He doesn't force us to love him. You know, I think that's so important. It's you do things because you love him, not because he's forcing you to love him. And maybe that's a difference between maybe the Western world and sometimes China, because maybe they don't understand God's love. Maybe that's what we know. That's what we need to work on, is helping them understand God's love.

20:52Because I think if you understand God's love, then you understand how we should treat each other. Thank you for offering that bit of history. I mean, in each of these powers that have been here, of course, have had a kind of profound impact in each of those time periods. I understand that 25% of Palauans have some kind of Japanese ancestry drink from that 40-year period even. So these are not small influences. I always tell the Japanese, we were the number one per capita in the world, consumer of Kiko Mansoi Sosa at one point. And every country that's been here, we've been good partners. It hasn't been a bad relationship. It just, that we didn't have our opportunity to decide ourselves. And I think that freedom of choice is so important. So that's very interesting. So you credit the United States with basically, they could have been more heavy-handed, but they chose a different path. Yeah, I'm sure they could have said, we want you to be a territory because you're of your location.

21:57But that is not, they said, you have the choice. So as you know, Micronesia was, Sypen, CNMI, was part of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, FSM and Palau. We were all part of the Tress territory. CNMI chose to be a Commonwealth. And of course, the rest of us chose to be FAS, freely associated states. I was going to say nexus earlier, but you said bullseye. It seems like you're, it's still a bullseye, the role you're playing, because of the interest of the strategic interest in this region. There's regular Palauans living their lives, doing their thing here. But then there's this large geopolitical, I don't know if the game is the word, but I thought, how do you deal with that? No, I think most importantly is, we have to be firm and we have to be clear on the partnerships that we want and how we want those partnerships to be.

23:03And that's at least what we've been trying to make clear. There's no problem with Chinese tourists coming to Palau. There's no problem with buying products from China. The whole world runs on products from China and Tress from China. What we say is, if you want a partner, you partner understanding our rules and we work together. It should be about shared prosperity, shared benefits. And you know, that's what I tell our friends from the United States. I tell our friends from Japan, I tell our friends from Taiwan, and Australia. I said, you know, the other thing that I see is, you know, Palau has a lot of potential, and it's being unlocked in the private sector, but guess by whom? The biggest investors in the private sector are Chinese companies, and they're the ones right now, I think, reaping the most when it comes to private sector. But when it comes to infrastructure development, building up our education and health systems, guess who contributes to that?

24:03It's the United States, it's Japan, it's Taiwan, and it's Australia. So I believe that we should all share in the prosperity that Palau has to offer, and especially our friends and partners that have been so loyal and have helped us get as far as we've gone. To your point here, there's a hotel up north that is not being built, but I understand there's a long lease that's been given for the land for it to be built, a very large hotel of 100 rooms directly across the road from the radar site that's being built. Well, this has been a challenge, but I think it's once again, you know, you see our friends from China see the potential. But we also see that maybe strategically, they hold on to some of these prime properties to hold back development in Palau, because they've acquired a lot of leases, and they're inactive.

25:11But as the Chinese ambassador told me, just say, give me the gold signal, and you'll have a million tourists a year. And I think that's something that Palau is not welcome, a million tourists a year. That would destroy the beautiful pristine environment that we have. I think that goes back to one of the partners that understand the value that we have, share the same values that we have, and want to develop in the right way. You know, one of the things that comes with the compact of the association is guarantee of defense. And one of the things that came out from my conversations is that there's different understandings of what that actually means among perhaps even yourself or the Americans and so forth. And one of the areas that, for example, America is facing, and I get the sense that Palau is facing it increasingly as well from these conversations is the influx of drugs and specifically in America is fentanyl here.

26:15I understand it's methamphetamine that's coming in and actually affecting the young population, which is not huge in the first place. Tell me a little more about what's happening and what you would like to see happen. Well, you know, this, this meth crisis or cocaine crisis is not only happening in Palau, it's happening all across the Pacific. It was one of the main things that we talk about during the Pacific, the pith that just finished. And we see that sometimes it seems like other governments may be looking in a different way and letting it infiltrate our countries. You know, we know most of it comes on flights that come from Macau and Hong Kong. You know, and it's something that I brought up with the Chinese government to say, we need your help to stop it so it doesn't get on the planes. And oh, yes, yes, we want to help you on that. But the reality is, no, they haven't helped us much in that area.

27:20They've made one arrest in Macau of people getting off, getting on the plane. But what we do see is that it's, it's overrunning our systems. So not only do we see an influx of them coming in, then when we arrest them, they fill up our jails, then we have not enough space to take care of all these prisoners. Now they're more than 15% of our prison prisoners and growing. So maybe that's an idea because they know that if they overrun our jails, then our judges say, well, it's inhumane to keep them, so start releasing them. This, this, this becomes a problem. So it's so important, important. And one of the things that I just came from this morning was the PPSG. That's the Pacific policing security arrangement that we have among the Pacific Island countries. We help each other in time. So the first really deployment was at the minigames last year, and this was the first PIF deployment.

28:20There was over 100 officers here. But it's made up of police officers from all across the Pacific. And it was great to have them working together here in Palau for the leaders, but it's about building relationships. So that a buddy can call the other buddy and say, you know, we have this person here and maybe they're causing these problems. These are, this is what partnership is all about. And so we've been working with the US federal agencies trying to get information to ensure that our borders are secure. You know, you have to be honest, it hasn't been coming as fast as it needs to happen. And so we've been talking to the military intelligence agencies, the FBI, DEA. And we keep on talking, but sometimes boots on the ground is just not happening as fast as it needs to happen. Recently I signed the T.C.N agreement with the United States, which I promised more assistance. We're now about eight months into that. It hasn't quite happened yet. But it was an important issue that I brought up with the United States continuously.

29:24And whether it's Homeland Security Assistance, it's DEA Assistance, it's FBI Assistance, it's just attorneys to help us prosecute. So that they know that the full extent of the law, these people know that we're going to come down on them. And presence is deterrence, strength, peace through strength. This is the same concept. And so as a security issue, weakening pullout by the influence of drugs is a problem. And it's something that I think under the compact, the United States should be taking an active role. And when we do have our JCM meetings twice a year, it's one of the things that's at the top of the list. Just to be super clear, what you're hoping is for, if I understand correctly, is some more operational boots on the ground. Is that right? So I'll just give you an idea back in the late 80s. And everybody knows this in pullout. There was a DEA agent that came to pullout.

30:25It was disguised, worked with everybody here. It was a mechanic. And in the end, he rounded up 13 pullowans. They put them on C-130s and took them off to federal prison. That helped. And there was trafficking going through here in the late 80s of heroin and other things. So that's what everybody expects. But we still have not reached that level. We're getting there through what they're trying to help. But that's what we want to see is we know we're a small community. People are related. Sometimes it's hard to be able to go out and do what needs to be done. So that's why you've been asking for the help. Mr. President, this has been an absolutely wonderful interview. Do you have anything else at this point that you'd like to tell me as we finish off? Well, I think most importantly, you know, when I was in Washington a few years ago,

31:26I said, you're the United States. You fly across the Pacific. And you're in Asia doing business. Don't forget that there's all these dots all across the Pacific that have opportunities, not only for security, but for economic development, that you can partner with us and really unlock that potential. I mean, we're three and a half hours from Hong Kong, three hours and 40 minutes from Taipei, two hours from Manila, five hours from Singapore. You know, so we want to encourage private sector development here, whether it's maybe it's AI centers or IT that's protected by the United States, but so close to Asia. What are other business opportunities there are here? I truly believe that, you know, we're grateful for the United States for providing that security. And as a US taxpayer, what I want to encourage US businesses is look at us

32:26as a place that you can expand your business in Asia, but being in a secure place that's protected by the United States. I try to look for those win-wins. And I think there's a lot of potential. And I really want to unlock that and encourage US businesses to look at Pala. And just to your point, Deputy Secretary Lando mentioned that the US is a Pacific nation and a lot of Americans, I think, tend to forget that as well. And frankly, you know, I wasn't clear on how much of a Pacific nation it is until the last few years as I've been looking into this region. Absolutely. And if you look at, if you stretch from California all across the Pacific to Pala, it's a pretty big stretch of strong partnerships that the United States has that covers the whole from California to Pala. We're all the way at the end. That's the partnership that we have.

33:27And we need to make stronger. And I'm looking forward to more private sector investment. But also the opportunity that, you know, I was sharing with Secretary Lando, is when the port is complete because they're dredging it and they're going to expand it. It's good for the military because now the military ships can come in, not only for security, but also for ship visits. But they also create an opportunity for cruise lines. So you know the Caribbean is the full of cruise ships. But now you can do Palau, Yap, Guam, Saipan, pop over to Devao or Sibu and make it just make a loop. But you know, these are opportunities that are there. And I think that's the benefit of having the militaries because then it opens up those new opportunities. It's hotel development. We need to see a Ritz Carlton.

34:28We want to see a St. Regis. And you know one of the things that one Secretary Lando was here was talking to him about was DFC. DFC for a long time, the development finance corporation, Palau wasn't eligible. Now we're eligible. But that's so important because it de-risked US businesses. So they can know that they can come here and invest in a condor or a hotel or a cruise line or do something that can provide economic opportunity for Palau, but also for them. And it's secure. I think that's what we need to also encourage. And Mr. President, just as a final, final thought, if I understand that a big part of the economy here is tourism. And for the typical American that might be watching this show, what will people find when they come to Palau? Well, you know, I like to describe Palau as a kind of representation of the entire Pacific within a 60 mile radius.

35:30If you go up north, we have via tolls that are just like the Marshall Islands. And then we have the big island of Palau, Babeldaum, which is volcanic, just like Hawaii. And then you go down south, we have the limestone, Rakhans which are like Raja Ampat. I'm not sure where else in the Pacific. Maybe the Philippines has some of them. And then we have islands like Guam and Nauru. So you can see the whole Pacific in a very small space. So that's above ground. But we have lush tropical forests. We've just discovered that we have these amazing terraces that were built 3500 years ago. So some of the first settlements in the Pacific and covers 21 square miles over our big island. So we have amazing culture. And then of course, what everybody knows Palau for is the underwater beauty that we have. 500 species of coral, 1300 species of fish, and a stinglish jellyfish, which I just went out on Friday with the leaders.

36:36And we're able to experience again after four years of them being gone because of heat, extreme heat. So we call it pristine paradise. And we truly believe it. And one of the things that we do is that whenever a visitor comes and visits Palau, we make them sign a pledge that all they leave. When they leave, it's footprints in the sand that wash away. Respect what we have, what we've taken care of. Enjoy it. And let's continue to share it with the world. Well, President, Surangle Whips Jr. It's such a pleasure to have had you on. Well, thank you so much. Thank you all for joining President of Palau, Surangle Whips Jr. on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Janja Kelley.