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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life

from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show, and I'm Rachel Cruz, posting this hour with Dr. John Deloney,

and we're answering your calls at AAA825225.

All right, first up, we have Kate and Indianapolis.

Hi, Kate, welcome to the show.

Hi, John and Rachel.

Hello, hello, how can we help today?

Yeah, so I'm a stay-at-home mom.

I have a one-year-old and I have another baby due in July.

I've been married four years, and my husband just sat down with me in the last two weeks

and revealed to me that he took out $350,000 in loans, and he lost it all.

He was using it to invest in day trading, and so it was a real shock to me.

I just would like some direction from you guys or some answers as to what you think I

should do in all aspects, should I get a job, you know, marriage advice, stuff like that.

God, Kate, I'm so sorry.

When did you find this out?

It was a little over a week ago.

How did you find out? Did he come to you and tell you or did you find something?

He came to me and told me, and I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage.

I just found that out last night before marriage.

Where was he getting these loans from?

So my husband is a self-employee.

He started his own business like two years ago, and he has, his business has done really well,

and we would have been fine.

Like our business was successful.

He does excavation, and I don't know.

I'm still not at the bottom of, you know, the purpose of doing that, but

anyway, his business is doing really well, and so that's why he was able to get such loans.

That makes sense.

So he used, he took out business loans, or he told banks, I'm borrowing this money for my

business, and then he day traded it. So he committed a crime, too.

I wasn't aware that was a crime.

It's fraud.

Okay.

If I go to a bank and say, hey, I want to open a restaurant, and they go cool,

and they give me money for my restaurant, and I go day trade it, yeah, that's fraud.

I'm not sure if it's a business loan.

I just know he has three loans, and I know the names of the places he has them through.

So you don't know if it's like a personal loan or a small business loan.

I know that some of them are per, I think they're all, I mean,

they all be personal.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, I mean, they're not taking it out on the business to John's point.

Okay.

Gosh, Kate, how much do you guys make a year?

He pays himself as a W2 employee with his company, and he $50,000 here.

That's how he does it.

Jeez.

Okay.

Is it bad?

We will be filing bankruptcy in March.

It's not even optional.

There's no way out.

Yeah, have you guys spoken to an attorney?

We have, and that was the question I had.

Should I get a job?

My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job, because he thinks

he actually might hurt the situation where they help it.

Because you're what?

Like showing more income or something?

Because we file our taxes jointly, so he thinks it's going to increase our household income.

Dude, you're so far past that situation.

Here's what you have, here's what getting a job would do for you right now.

Like the world you knew as of like two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore.

The integrity of the man you anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore.

And like you owning that reality is really important.

I understand that.

And taking money advice, and well, it's going to bracket us from the person that just did that.

That's like your spouse cheating on you, and then giving you dating advice.

You know what I mean?

I'm not taking that kind of advice from you in this moment right now.

Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I.

So what do you have to say?

I mean, we call it financial infidelity.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's okay, if I were you, I would be separating everything right now,

because this part of your marriage no longer has trust, right?

And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that.

But for you, and you're expecting, right, a baby?

Correct.

Yeah, and I already have a one year old.

Yeah.

Probably like what I would probably do today is I would go down to the bank and get a separate

checking account.

And when he pays himself, I would split it 50-50 and just have your own money

in an account for right now.

And then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward because

for you to what John's saying is like creating safety for UK is what I'm looking for here

in a financial situation now.

You having a baby and being pregnant like that, I mean, it does.

It adds so many complexities because you go and put the kid in daycare and try to get a part-time

job. I mean, realistically, like, you know, probably not.

Like daycare is going to cost as much as, you know, I mean, I know how expensive that stuff is.

So yeah.

So looking at it.

So what I would do probably right now is I would tell him I need 50% of the paycheck

and I'm having my own account because you need to start rebuilding

your own side of the finances and marriage.

And then unless you guys can get to a point where you are

rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that.

But you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit.

And I wouldn't, I would want every login information.

I would have every account.

I would freeze his credit.

So he can't go and borrow more.

That's three years.

Freeze yours too.

Freeze yours.

Your child's too.

People take out loans and their kids names and commit fraud that way.

And the thing with what he's done, and I don't, obviously we don't know him.

But and John, you probably could squeeze this way better than I could.

But when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become great.

Like you start to like make decisions that aren't even rational to out of the freak out of trying

to get yourself out of this much of that.

You go to survival, you're not thinking anymore.

Yeah, there's no rational.

So so him like, it's not excuse.

It's not excuse, but it's a contact.

Yeah, so like him taking money out on one year old.

Most people are like, that would be crazy.

Like, yeah, but he would be in that desperate situation that he'd probably go and do things like that.

Right.

So you're just trying to at this point, I would put as much protection around yourself

from a cash flow perspective that's realistic and that he can't tap into anything else.

And I would, yeah, I mean, I would make sure you have every log in account.

Do you guys have, I mean, do you have investments?

I mean, all like when you fall bankrupt, they're going to be taking it so much.

Like do they take them out like your like what investments as far as like 401K,

Roth IRAs, do you guys have any of those?

He does.

Okay, so I would have one, but it's just in my name so they're not going to touch it

because all the loans are in his name, not mine.

So I would have, I would even get just, I don't know if that's how that works.

The log in information on all of that.

Like do you know, I would get as much information as you can to have access

to what you need to get to if the time comes.

I mean, you just explained it.

You learned something two weeks ago and then you found something out last night.

I think I can probably count on one hand.

The number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said,

Hey, I screwed up.

I've been cheating.

I screwed up with our money.

I haven't been employed for a year, whatever.

And they get the whole story the first time out.

So for you, I would guess that there are,

I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out.

And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this.

You husband have burned our trust to the ground.

For the next seven days, here's a road map that I want you to follow that we can start practicing

in teeny tiny little ways to rebuild trust.

I want every log in, I want our credit reports, I want my own checking account.

And then seven days from now, we're going to, you're going to give them another road map.

Very clear that he can follow and then he gets to decide whether he's going to follow that or not.

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Next we have Marshall in Kansas City. Hi Marshall. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

Well, I have about $50,000 in debt and about a $92,000 mortgage and I have a little bit of savings

because my wife had some medical issues that we are still waiting on the bills on so I didn't know

the best way to handle up kind of bills that we don't know the totals on. Okay, what's the medical issue?

What's going on? She's having some heart issues, she's seen the cardiologist and other things like that.

Okay, how much you guys have saved for that? I have $8,000 in savings right now. Okay,

and are you guys at the beginning of this or these will be kind of final medical bills once I hit?

It's still going on, she's still seeing the doctors. Okay, the 50K in debt, can you break that

down for me? What each? That is $18,000 on a truck and $32,000 in student loans. Okay, how much

you guys make a year? Right now, see the nursing school. I don't know yearly that I make $864 a week.

Okay, so what do you guys bring home a month? What hits your checking account each month?

Almost $4,000. Okay. Okay, honestly, Marshall, just seeing everything right now, I would sell the truck.

Okay. Yeah, how much could you get for it, do you think?

Maybe 30. You could get 30 for it?

Probably. Oh my gosh, all day. It's 30 new. I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

So this week paid off in the next six months. You could get it paid off in the next six months?

If I depleted the savings and I also have $10,000 or inner retirement that I was told I could pull out

it. No, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Yeah, I wouldn't touch retirement to pay off consumer debt.

So I would leave leave that $10,000 there. That's not worth the truck at this point.

Okay, because she's also in school right now and we'll start working

come May when she graduates nursing school in May. Okay. What will she, does she have any idea

which she'll be making? 40 come to an hour. But I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart

troubles since she doesn't have medical issues, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a lot of what if

still in the road, I would I would act on what you have in your hand right now. Yeah, so I mean,

honestly, if you could get 34 it, that's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it and then I mean,

I would spend maybe five, six grand, yeah, four grand, whatever you can just to get something

significantly cheaper, obviously. Okay. And then yeah, I mean, and then out of that, you'll have

probably 10-ish left over eight to 10,000 and then throw that at the student loans,

you know, and you'll be down to, at that point, probably 22 to 24,000, which is amazing.

Like that's a, that's a significant jump going, you just cut, you just basically cut everything

in half, debt wise. Yeah. And then if in 24 months, if she's making 40 bucks an hour and you keep

working hard, then go get it whatever truck you want, man. You just write, write a check for it. Yep.

Okay. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yep. Absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right. Let's go to

Joseph in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show. Hey guys, how are you doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So my wife, Talia and I are moving to Columbia,

South Carolina in mid-March. We're actually in Texas right now. We want to buy a house on the VA

and we want to do this for two reasons. One, we want to start building equity on the real estate

and in Columbia, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent in terms of monthly mortgage.

Here are the caveats. We still are $40,000 in debt, in debt between two cars and her subsidized

student loans. And we do have around 16,000 in our joint brokerage and our high yield savings.

But I was wondering if you guys have any advice moving forward for us.

Don't do anything you're about to do. Don't buy home. You're going to hate our, you're going to

be mad that you call this. I know. Because when broke people buy houses, they become broker is what

happens. So yeah, the monthly payment may not be, but when the roof leaks and the water goes out

and I mean, and then life starts happening as a homeowner, you guys have no money.

Or you put it this way, you want to build equity on one side of the equation and at the exact

same time, you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars

on the other side of this teeter totter, right? Okay. So it's like, I want to fill this bathtub

up really high and I just shot two holes in the back of it. Yeah. Okay. So it's like getting your

whole house and get your whole house in order. And then man, if you guys move focused with focus

intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment. No time. Yeah. And moving to a new city.

Anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bearings. I mean, I,

you know, Columbia's high. It's such a great, it's such a great city. But I even think about

Nashville. I'm like, well, I'm into Nashville. My wife and I rented for you. Yes. There's so many

different parts and neighborhoods and you're just like, okay, what, you know, what side of the city

do I live on? What does commute look like? What does traffic look like? I mean, there's so many

things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long term purchase and to rush into

something and the name of building equity, right? It's the, it's the wrong approach is what's

happening. You're kind of going from the other end. So yeah. So you guys moving rent for a year.

How much will you guys be making? So between the two of us, we make about 160 per year.

Amazing. Yeah. She makes about 75. I think about 90. Okay. Give it, give it take a year is good.

Will you make that same amount in South Carolina? Yeah. I mean, I work from home as a civil engineer

and she's in the Air Force. Amazing. Okay. So here's what I would do Joseph. Honestly, if I were you,

do you guys have kids? No, not yet. No. Okay. So yeah, I would go go to Columbia. I would rent

for a year. I would take my 16,000 and I would throw it at the smallest step. What do you own?

What do you own the cars? So I owe about 20,000 on my truck and she owes about 15,000 to a maybe

federal loan. We took out for a use the address. Okay. And then what's the student loans?

I think it's about 10,000. 10,000 there. Okay. So yeah. So I would, I would throw 10,000 of the

student loans tonight. Just get those knocked out completely. And then you'll have 5,000.

So I want you to keep a thousand dollars as an emergency fund. Take her car down to 10,000.

Okay. So then you guys have 30,000 dollars and left and debt. And what I would do is you guys

make 160. I would live on 60, like live on nothing, like get a crappy one bedroom apartment,

have no lifestyle. And you 100 grand, right? So you go, I mean, of course, this is before taxes,

but the idea is that you pay off all the debt. You'll have 70,000 dollars. Part of that will be an

emergency fund. And then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even

for not even one more year, six more months and get at least a 5% down payment. And I would avoid

the VA loan. There's so many fees. It's not a great option. Okay. So I would just do a traditional

mortgage, 15 year fixed straight mortgage and put at least 5% down on a home. And I think,

just if you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months, pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund,

get a down payment. And I promise you the piece you will have doing that, having no payments,

no debt, no risk, a fully funded emergency fund heading into home ownership, like that is so much

more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans, student loans, not a ton of savings.

I could be wiped out in a second. And you know what I mean? And you're just living on the edge

there. So yeah, that's what I would do. Sure, thanks guys. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call.

Me and we had to tell two people. I don't know if they're going to do it. Neither of them are going to

do it. No, I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off. Joseph can. Yeah, because

they'll get hers down to 10. And then they have his 20,000 dollar truck, but they make 160. I mean,

they can. You're always about selling stuff. No, I just don't I think when somebody gets their

mindset on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what he's going to. It's so hard to back up and say,

I'm going to do that, but in two years. Yes. And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like,

I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's so worth it. It's so worth it. And it's almost

like someone has to go through it. And then their car, they owe a payment on breaks down and they

roll that negative equity. And they're going to call us back in two years. Yeah. And they're going to be

like, man, I should have listened. I know. Yeah. Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you.

Bro, you're like 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction. Hang in there,

man.

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What do you talk about? There are so many people though in their marriages that are frustrated.

They're overwhelmed. They're lonely. And we have the answer for you. We've got it. We've got

the whole answer. Yeah. So and let me say this for years, I push back on this. I said, I don't think

we could get a we could get something that would help in the way that I think people need help. And

the zeros and ones guys here, we all got, we've been working for a couple of years now. And

what they've come up with is unbelievable is unbelievable. So we have a new app, John Deloney.

It's a new app out. Yeah, it's called the together app. And it's in the Apple store. Android folks

take 30% off. We're making we're going to make one for you. We're working on it. But it's it's

cool. But right now it's in the app store. And it is incredible. It's a micro habits for your

marriage. It will text you or not text you, but it will walk with you on daily habits. And you

get it will learn you and you get to decide what what avenue you want to take where you want to

focus on, whether you got small kids, whether you got your deal with mental load, whether you got

a partner who's just completely unplugged like all that. And it is incredible. It's so good. And

here's my favorite part. Besides that, it's awesome. My favorite part is we walked into this thing

knowing that everybody's struggling financially. And so instead of saying we want to do all this

stuff and it's going to cost a hundred million dollars, we started with it cannot be more than

six bucks a month for both of you. And so this app works. If you are the only one working on your

marriage, it works with just one player mode, but you can bring your spouse along for for no extra

charge. And so it's a cup of coffee a month to literally transform your marriage. Yeah, not in

big fireworks shows, but in in daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding.

Yeah, because you guys have had people for thousands and thousands of people we've been testing

the amount of tweaking and doing. I mean, all of it's just it's amazing. Yeah. And what's so

funny is that it is an app. So you're on your phone, but it gets you off your phone. Yeah,

the purpose is to get off your phone and actually not think about go do this thing action based

for your for your spouse for your marriage for you. And it's transformational. It's called the

together app you can search the together app in the app store. And it's a cup of coffee a month.

And you can you can bring your spouse with you for the same, the same price. And let me just say

this to John like it is four couples that are struggling, but it's also for those that are like,

hey, we just want we need a reminder. How do we how do we just like level up? How do we just

become more intentional? Right. So even if you're not like in this like, oh gosh, we're in a terrible

place, you get it because what it does is it reminds you keeps things top of mind for you. And it

actually gives you creative ideas. Yeah. And and I'm glad you brought that up. The most common

thing I hear from couples is we've become co managers of our house, right? We are passing each

other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets and both of us are working too much. And

this is a tool to help you all laser in and refocus on why you'll even like each other in the

first place. That's right. And it gets you out of your head and into action and get you off your

phone, which is, which is my favorite part of it. So great. So yep, go to the Apple store and

download it to get today. It's the together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio.

Hi, Travis. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So, well, man, we're to begin. So if I can summarize this quickly, basically, we had an emergency.

We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got led inner blood. So we had to vacate quickly.

Yes, she's okay. We caught it in time. Thank God. But we're living with the in laws and have been

for about six months now. And you know, I know that throws red flags for people when I talk about

it, but it hasn't been terrible. But now it's getting to the point where we're really just

itching for our own space. Sure. And we're not really sure what next steps to take.

I've been working my way through baby steps. We're trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund.

That's three to six months expenses for us. Roughly, and that's me being extremely hot on myself.

I was trying to consider, you know, roughly $1,000 a month for a potential payment on something.

Is that stupid? Is it stupid? I mean, I don't think so. Depends on, I mean, how much margin

do you guys have? I mean, should you make a make a month? I make roughly $3,900 a month. And

my wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts. Okay. And I'm out about $4,000 in the

emergency fund, but we're we're nearing that that threshold of desperation where we really just

want our own space again. Sure. No, I hear you. So in your area, would you guys be able to find

something for $1,000, $1,200? Maybe. We're looking at rent homes, but my boss has also offered,

he has offered me a owner finance situation. No, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that.

See, and that was what I thought too. Because then if something happens and you lose your job,

you lose your house, you lose it. Just don't do that. Don't go down that. Don't cross those

streams like like the Ghostbusters dude. Okay. Let your boss just remain your boss. Yeah. Okay,

I'm glad you guys. Yeah. It's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't

tangle things up even further that way because untangling that just becomes a nightmare. Okay.

Travis, what do you do for a living? I work in doors and hardware. I do, you know, we do like

commercial like for school and stuff. Okay. Okay. And do you have kids? I have one daughter. She's,

yeah, she's about a year old. Okay. So for you guys, I mean, if you're looking to move out,

we always say that your rent should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay or your mortgage.

And so for you guys, I mean, that's a, that's 1,000 to 1,200 right if you kind of go a little bit

above that. So I would want to stay within those me within those parameters, which means you're

going to have 3,000 left to live on. Have you guys done a monthly budget? You know what you're,

well, I guess I mean, you obviously don't have rent or utilities and all of that, but I would kind

of do a mock budget and just say, okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we think everything's

going to cost? And let's start everything you guys spend money on in the month. And see if you

can get it within that, I mean, it has to be within the 3,000. Ideally, it would be less than that

so that you can continue to save and get your emergency fund built up because you guys have what

$4,000 in there, you said? Roughly, yeah. Okay. After living with your in-laws for six months,

how have you only been able to save four grand? Well, there were some complications for like my

wife had some medical stuff. She had to deal with postpartum. Okay. Great. I'm glad you're able to take

care of that stuff. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's been like here and there I've had to buy

new workboots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago.

Okay. Oh wow. Do you see a race coming anytime soon, Travis?

There's potential for one. This company's fairly new, so we're growing. Okay. And I think I'm just

trying to find my groove within within the ranks. Yeah. Are you 40 hours with them?

I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about 900 a week. Okay.

And like I said, my life doesn't work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd

really like to start my own business. Yeah. That's great. Because honestly, you'll probably make,

you know, if you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is

awesome. Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. What I hear with you brother is like simply put,

y'all have a math problem. Okay. And you have a value in your home that you want your wife to

stay at home. Y'all want her to stay at home. You want to work with this new company and get

them off the ground and you're working 50 hours a week, but you're just, I mean, you're making about

as much as if you went to become a manager at a Starbucks. And so like you're not making 50 grand

a year, right? Right. No, not quite. And so, and so you've got these competing values that y'all

trying to stretch out, but the math is y'all can't afford to live out on your own, which tells me,

you you and your wife have to go back and say, okay, wish one of these values that we've laid out.

If six months for one year for two years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for

the future. But this is moments when people make desperate situations. Yeah, this is where the

baby stays with the in-laws and she works for three days a week. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean,

you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to a point that you have your emergency

funding. And by that time, hopefully you've gotten a few raises and time has passed and your

income's gone up. Some good side hustle jobs. Yes, but in the meantime, John's right, you guys

have an income problem, Travis. So a creative way to fix that is what I'd be looking for.

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So there are certain elements of money that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing

that we're just like, that is so annoying. Like, whatever it is, right? Dave's is always

people that can't find a job. He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for six months.

Like, I'd go, I'd go like, cut yards. Like, I would do something, right? Like, he like,

we all kind of have our thing. My thing for some reason, John, more and more and more,

it's sports betting. I find it so annoying. Like, I hate it. You find it annoying. It is like,

it is getting under my skin more and more. The bros that are in all the app. Now that I know,

I'm like, we're watching football and it's like every commercial is an app for sports betting.

The amount of money that's going into it and the target audience is a bunch of freaking like

20, 30-year-old dudes for the most part. They have a chart. And I'm just like, and they're all

complaining that they can't afford house. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, y'all are annoying.

It's annoying. I hate it. The sports betting world. And so, I hate it because it's predatory.

Yes, they want that. Yes. And I hate it because of the way the playbook is just, it's like an old

school after school special. Like, the first joint is free, right? And it's like, your first

bets are free. And it's like, it's such an old school playbook, but it's so predatory.

Rope you in. Yes. And you keep betting. And then they prop bet you. It's like, hey,

will his shoe fall off in the fourth quarter? And you can't get it. The stupidest stuff.

It just latches into every no concrete. And people get in such trouble with it. And that's what's

so frustrating. That's why I hate it because it's like, I love, I love watching the fights with

somebody. And they're like, do you should I put 10 bucks on it? I love that. That's funny. That's

like a thing. That's like old school. Just like, hey, we're sitting around. I bet on a horse

for steeple chase. When it becomes, goes from fun to, hey, bet we can make a bunch of money to,

I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this to the tune of billions and billions of

dollars. And then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything or we talk to them and they

can't go to school. They can't like get a job. Like, it's so destructive. Yes. Now I hate it.

Okay. So as the Super Bowl is approaching, an article came out and ESPN said that approximately

$1.76 billion is expected to be bet on the Super Bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27% increase

year over year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1.7 billion in sports betting for the Super Bowl.

I'm like, I think we could like cure clean water. Like, I feel like we could use this money and like,

help a lot of people. You don't even mean. I'm just like, oh, or help your families.

Help yourselves. I don't know. So much good could be done. I just, I can't, I can't do it. Yep.

And Bill Miller, who's the president of AGA, said that no single event brings fans together

like the Super Bowl. And this record figures shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting

as a part of the experience. That's like, that's like Bill sitting outside of a methadone clinic

and being like, nothing brings people into a long line. It just shows it's like so not true.

Not true. The destruction and all of it. And all the, I'm like, oh my gosh, please take your

money and fund your Roth IRA 27 year old, please. Yes. Take half the money by some great nachos.

And then put the other bit of that money. Pay your credit card off this month. Just say,

I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card. I'm going to do something

smart with my money. Oh, sports betting, the bros. It used to be the crypto bros that bother me.

It's now the sports betting bros. The next segment we'll talk about. It is.

The women that drive me crazy. Yeah, we can't. We won't. We for sure won't. It's all the

for sure we won't. All the essential oils. You know what I mean? That's everything. But the

sports betting man. Oh my gosh, well, I bet the super boy up coming up. Yeah, we're going to

you're going to see it. Don't bet. Don't bet on if you haven't already. Save your money. Save your

money. Save your money. All right. Let's go to Cincinnati. We have Amber on the line. Hi, Amber.

Welcome to the show. How are you guys doing? Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

I'm doing well. I had a question. I know you guys always talk about, you know, like

whole life insurance policies and how they're not great. And some life insurance. Some life insurance

policies. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So we have we have a term life policy.

And both of us have, you know, policies obviously through our employers too. And, you know,

we've done a good job with a term life making sure we have kids and making sure that they're

taking care of, you know, God forbid something would happen. But the question I have is my husband

was, I guess you could say gifted a family member when he was a little kid, bought him a whole

life insurance policy. Yeah. And he still has it. I think I think the value of it is like 40 or

$50,000 or something like that is something would happen. And he's never paid anything for it.

Now what's happening is the annual premium, which also gets about $88 or something like that.

It just comes out of the interest that's earned. So he's just kind of kept it.

I go the route of, well, do we cash it out and then, you know, invest it, you know, or, I mean,

heck, even, you know, in our high-yield savings account, the money's there. You know what I mean?

Yes. Yes. Yes. I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with

this. And I think he's going on the cautious side. But I'm like, we have term life, we have life

insurance through our, you know, yes. Yeah, you're covering how long is your term life for what's

what's the policy? It goes all the way up until we both retire. Okay. At that point, we will be

in a good situation that, I mean, our kids will be graduated from college. I mean, I mean, we'll

be in a different situation. Cash it out today. Cash it out today. You were right. Yes. Yeah,

yeah, your hunch was right. You can tell your husband that we said you were right.

Okay. That felt good, Amber. I would cash out for the end of the day.

Yeah. And you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, but you'll pay some taxes

and all of it, but what you get out of it, though, it literally, if you just put that in the market,

and we don't know what the market's going to do this year. But I mean, in the past few years,

some years, it's been like 20 percent. Like it's crazy with the returns have been in there. And

like you said, or even sitting in a high-yield savings account, earning three and a half percent,

anything gets better than this because what they sit there and do is try to mix your investments

and insurance and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is even though you all

aren't necessarily paying for it here that you're paying out of the interest. But it's expensive.

It's a horrible investment. You can be making so much more out in the market. And so I would,

I would take this, I would take this 40 grand for sure, drop it into like an index fund or go to

Vanguard or you know, put it in a, put it in a high-yield savings account. Like the way you can get

about it is the way I would think about it. I just think in that extra cushion. We have a

cushion, but even more cushion. Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use.

They dangle that death benefit out in front of you. And then they take your money and they invest

that in the market. And then they make the spread. I think his thing is always just,

God forbid something would happen to him. He wants to make sure that. But he has, but he has

a charm. Yes, he has a charm life insurance. Is that $50,000 gonna change your life?

If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you?

No, I mean, the term is gonna pay for the house. There you go. You know, pay for everything. I mean,

we've got plenty. Yes. We don't owe anything besides just a little bit left on our house.

Okay. How old are you guys? How old are you, Amber?

I'm 47. 47. Okay. I'm just like just doing a quick calculation. If you just

put it in right now, just in the market and you just didn't touch it until you were 67,

it'd be $435,000. And that's not adding anything. That's just put it, move like what John said.

If you just moved it from one account to the other today and then just left it, you got almost half

a million in there. So, well, and typically, I guess this is the debate we keep going on. It is

making money. You know what I mean? And I'm like, well, like, not a lot. He's had it since he's a child.

Yeah, for the steward. He's had it since he's a child. You know, it's only $40,000. It is making

money. It's making money for them. Not for y'all. Because how old is he? How old is he? He's 52.

Okay. And when did they open this when he was like two years old? I have no clue.

Seriously, think about that. Let's just say you did. Let's say they did. Because a lot of

family members will do this. They, a grandparent or someone will a child is born.

It was more like later in life. You know what I mean? Like maybe a teenager or something like that.

Let's just say, yeah, 12 years old. 40 years. It's $40,000.

It's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say,

you're going to be winning here. In 20 years, you'd have almost half a million, right? It is,

it is a ripoff. Whole life insurance. You guys, it's terrible. It is terrible. So,

get term what you guys have. Amber, you, it's inexpensive. You get it. You set it,

15, 20 years, whatever you need. And then whatever you would have paid for whole life,

just invest the difference there. And you're going to come out spades ahead. So,

yeah, Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz,

hosting today with Dr. John Deloni. So give us a call with triple eight eight two five five

two two five. Next, we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Cameron. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. How are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So I am I am $74,000 in debt and I have two jobs and I used to be a hundred I used to be

$131,000 in debt two years ago and I'm 74. Look at you, girl. That's like 60 grand. I know it's

been really hard. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago. Oh my gosh. And it's been kind

of getting worse over the last couple of months and I'm trying to figure out should I keep working.

I've been working my butt off paying about $2,525 every month towards the day. And I'm struggling

to work. Like I'm having issues this every day and I love what I do. Like I love both my

jobs. My bosses are amazing. Yeah. And I just want to know should everyone's been telling me

you should work life, should work life. And I just I don't know what to do honestly. Yeah,

what do you do for what are your two jobs? So my first job I'm a claims associate and then my

second job I'm a retention specialist for a middle size insurance agency. Okay, okay.

Which job pays the most? I'm a nine if I'm a claims role. Your claims, okay. And then you're

in and how much overtime are you working with the other job? I'm not where I don't get overtime.

I only get salary. Okay. And then I get 21 an hour at my second job. You're doing the other one.

Okay, okay. And how many hours do you work that extra job? So I work an additional I so I work

from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week. With them on top of the four. So your work

in 60 hours. Karen, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you I'm proud of you?

Not not for working yourself to where you have like a like a chronic illness, not that, but

like you've been working really hard doing whatever it takes. And I want to applaud you.

It's pretty impressive. It's really really impressive.

Are you single? I'm so hard. I know. I am engaged.

Okay. And I've been working so hard. He's I also have been down in bipolar disorder and I've

been doing all the work going to therapy. I've been talking to my psychiatrist, doing other

medications. And that's been extremely tumultuous as well. And the hardest part is that sometimes

the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine. And I've been, it's just been really hard.

Every once you tell me work, life, work, life. But I'm like I want to get free and like you should live,

you can live. And I'm just like I just don't want to have these days.

Well, there's a middle ground there. There's a middle ground. When people say you should just live

like often people have in their mind like beach vacation and just for you, just live means

like I want the world to hear your story. And I especially want this guy who's won the lottery

getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you. You're close to like pushing

your body over a threshold where it says I quit. And so I want you just to live like I mean that

for real. Do you know what I'm saying? Not yellow, but I want you to be healthy and okay.

I know. I would much rather you take six months and just work one of the jobs. Even if you have

to take a medical leave or whatever, take six months and exhale so that you can come back stronger.

I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes and they say the hardest part about training an

Olympic athlete is getting them to rest, getting them to let their bodies recover. And your

body is systematically saying hey, we can't this is this is a heavy, heavy load. And so I want to

applaud you for going all in. And I also want to hear you I want you to hear me and Rachel say how

proud of you we are. And we want you to listen to your body so that you can cross the finish line

in a casket to be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high, right?

It's so hard. I just don't I know I'm I just I just want to take this while I'm going to get it done.

And I just I used to blame like before I used to blame everyone else about all my problems.

And when I finally figured out that I was the you know, the problem I started to I just wanted to

start working on it. So every day. You are you are you are you are taking some time to make

sure your body's healthy. That that that is continuing that's you continuing to take ownership

of you. Yeah. And Kim and I do want to give you that permission that you know people that call

in and there's they have a you know, even a child who's sick and their attention has to be on

that or themselves like there are moments to pause baby step two to take care of yourself or

someone around you. Okay. So that that is what we tell people. Okay. Getting out of debt is very

important, but it's not literal life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot

because we want to be so extreme for me to get it. But it's really you don't need to take

care of Cameron is really important. And I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing

anything, right? It's not you're not calling us up being like I work 15 hours a week and it's

just too much. No, you want to work one 50 hour week job. Good grief. Right. That's awesome.

I mean like you're doing great. And if you need to just and I know it's frustrating is you're

you have momentum and what's hard to Cameron, I can hear it is like mentally you are so strong.

You're like I see this and this is what I want my mind wants to go here, but my body's not letting

me. And it's usually the opposite for people. They're but their body able to do whatever

able bodied, but they don't have the mindset, but you you got it girl. So so so taking care of your

body is not going to ruin this whole thing. It's not. It's just I'm I'm so I'm so scared to

just losing that extra income to you like just I haven't I've been doing it for so long and

paying so much. It's just I'm scared to you because my bills feel like they're so high even like

I just like I've so much. And I just when I look at like my budget, I think okay, so I will only

have like a thousand left. If I just had my main job and I wouldn't be able to put and next

all I would have after bills. Sure. I think like I want to what's left Cameron of the of the 74,000?

What kind of debt is it? So I have about five thousand dollars of credit cards left.

Two personal loans. There about one is 2600. The other is 6000. Okay. Look at 4800. Excuse me,

I didn't pay double the payment for it. Then I have a car. So I have a that's the model Y. Okay.

So that's 25,000. Okay. And then I have two repos that are on my credit that I've been wanting

to get settled there. One is 19,000. The other is the other is 13. And then that's it.

Okay. And that's all I have right now. Okay. Are you saying? I'm sorry. I arrested a 5,000.

Oh, okay. Okay. We may move that up to the front. Just to get that out of the way.

Have you are you you said you're paying extra on that personal loan of the 6,000? Are you paying

extra on everything? Everything's I'm putting. So for my my loan for the IRS is 131, but I pay

300. Okay. So what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts.

And I want you to just do if you just said the minimum payment on everything and you put everything

towards the IRS debt. I want that momentum to be building because you're kind of spreading

everything out, which is amazing. And you've done a fantastic job. I just want more intensity

focus on each one. And so pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one off first.

And you got this camera and we are we are here. Call us back if you need any more help because we

are cheering you on.

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All right, let's go to Philadelphia and we have Janelle on the line. Hi, Janelle.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So I am currently going through a divorce. And my question is, what would be the best way to

buy my ex-man child spouse out of my home? Shots fired. Just a bird. Oh my gosh.

You talk about sports betting. Oh, is that is he one of those? It's like sports betting,

marijuana, video games. Stop it. What have you been writing, man, child? We were married for

six years. When I met him, he was working full-time. I started going to nursing school and I kind

of continued. I went for my bachelor's and then along the course of I think our third kid,

like when our third kid started, like came, I figured it would be easier for me to pick up an

extra shift or to a nurse than have work. So I regretted, I'm regretting having him become a

stay-at-home dad because that was like the end of it. And every time I asked him to start working,

again afterwards, there was an excuse. And now we are at this point. And he kind of hit the

jackpot. Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him. Okay. Don't hold that.

That's a man. That's a father of three kids choosing to not get up and co-support his family.

Yeah. I was actually, well, he's not that you need to know this, but he actually adopted my

oldest son. And so I, in the beginning, everything seems good. And I was getting out of a very

abusive relationship who I had a child with. And it just kind of ended up, you know,

walking through what to do with your money. But I want to set you free from that today.

Thank you. I really needed to hear that. Every husband, every father needs to go get a job.

Yeah. I kept saying I was marrying two, three people and my in-laws because anytime there was

an argument as mom would say, what's going on? I should come to the house. It was just like it was

the worst. You're not married to a mad child. It's like an actual child child child. I can't even make

it up. Yeah. And they're paying for his lawyer. And we're going to be going through custody

battle. And he thinks he needs 50-50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part-time

janitor as of the week he filed for divorce. He finally went back and got a job for four hours a day.

Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying, please get a job. All that will

come out in discovery. So yeah, I hope so. Just work out on that process here. Let's get each

to the house. Tell us your house situation. Yeah. Okay. So I have to buy him out because I was

kind of guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for. He did not put a dollar towards.

But yeah, yeah, which marital debt. Yeah, totally. Well, and I'll give you that freedom too,

that we would tell people when they're when you're married, right? Even if one spouse stays home,

you both. Right. So that was not that was not wrong of you. Okay. I hear the frustration because you

put it in your face. Yeah. But that was not in the heat of a wrong move. Yes. Okay. Yeah. But to your

point, he has that he has 50% of that asset too. Yeah. So I we just went to the divorce hearing

and I and I owe him about 48,800 and some dollars. Okay. The house is worth 255 out of as of the

last appraisal and I owe 139 on it or 138. Okay. So I have so since this whole thing started,

I've been like stacking up. I've been I was hustling to like pay off a one of our personal loans

because I knew that was going to come up and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid

off a $16,000 personal loan. We had his marital debt. I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and

set aside about 18,000. So I have cash and I don't know if it's better. Oh, also I have to pay

an alimony. So I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000

a month once when he moved out. Okay. Which he hasn't yet. So should I save this cash as like

just to decide my alimony payments or so I don't have to worry about that when the time comes.

No, how much are you making a month? $6,000. So I'm a nurse practitioner. I make a bring home

$6,000 a month and I do have a side day would call it a hobby where I do like medical aesthetics,

Botox and fillers and I can bring bring home depending on how much I do it like one to $6,000 a month

and I'm just doing it really part time because I was a kid. Oh good. Could you would you say like

$2,000 would probably be average just for calculation purposes? Yeah. Yeah. It has been since I've

started doing about two years ago. Good for you. Yeah. There's some cash in that. That's great.

Good for you to know. Okay. So how much will the mortgage be that you're if you keep the house,

how much will the mortgage be without the mortgage? $48,000, but just in general, how much does the

payment? Well, it depends. I mean, right now it's 1360. Okay. Four a month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then

if you add... Well, I was going to say if you add in that $48,000 if you buy him out and just

tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to $2,000, which I don't think it...

I don't think it will. I'm not able to do the calculations right here, but calculate it out to

say, okay, if I add that $48,000 to the $138,000, calculate out what that mortgage payment would be because

I don't want your mortgage payments to be more than 25% of your take-home pay because at that

point in general, you probably can't afford the house. But honestly, I think you might be okay. And

especially if you kind of commit for a period of time to doing the side hustle stuff that you can,

because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like holding it. That was probably

my best month. And it's... Well, even five grand, four grand. I mean, do you know what I mean?

The two grand that I just calculated is like a rough... That's more on the conservative side.

But even... Yeah. How much that you have in cash right now?

I have about $18,000 to set aside. But that's the thing, should I... Is it better to refinance the

house or take out a healer? I know you're not going to say healer or I wouldn't do that. Personal

loan for that. Normally, we would say we would say don't borrow to buy your partner out. But

when it comes to home ownership, 48 grand is a small number. Yeah. And if that payment is so

low enough, I would be comfortable with that because I'll be honest, you know, I'd say 90% of the

calls we get in the situation and the wife, the mom wants to keep the home, she can't afford it.

You know, I would most of the time we tell them that they have to end up selling it. But honestly,

with the numbers you're giving me, I might, but I want you to recalculate it. If you just go

to ramesolutions.com, we have a mortgage calculator. You can kind of plug some of this stuff in.

But I get it. I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take-home pay because you're

going to have that. Then you're going to have alimony for 15 months. And some stuff is going to

start stacking them. And I don't want this house to pay for childcare too because... Yes, so I don't

want this... Yeah, I don't want this house to be a burden, right? Like it's not worth it. It's worth

having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace. And I don't want financial stress

on you, okay? One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular

basis is I want you to put on the table as hard as this would be. What if I sold this house?

Right. And I do in the future plan on doing that. But I just want to... If you plan on doing that,

I would really think twice about doing it now. Because what you're trying to do for you and the

kids is to minimize how different your life is now. And I would go ahead and just metabolize.

It's 100% different. The life you had is over. And if you think from that, it sounds stark,

right? But if you sit... If you think, okay, the life I had is over. What do I want this new one

to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed at this price?

Probably not. Okay. Or would you go rent for a year? It's going to be inconvenient. You're

going to have to call somebody to help you move. It's going to be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm

going to start off this crash. And then the rent is going to be $2,400 minimum. Yeah, it'll be

expensive. There's no question. Yeah, there's no question. That's where I thought about that too.

Yeah. So I think it's kind of making that call Janelle for you from that perspective, from a

mental perspective. Do you want to be walking back in that front door every day, right? Like,

is that... How is that for you? And then do this calculations. So those are the two big questions

that I want you to kind of discover on your own. And you can, but you're smart. And gosh, I'm so sorry

of what you're going through.

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App Store or Google Play. All right. Let's go to New Orleans and we have Brandy on the line. Hi, Brandy.

Hi. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

Hi. I'm Colleen. I am an avid listener. My husband, my own board. We are paying off debt and we

are like super gazelle intense. Good for you guys. I'm excited. Good. I have a $96,000 tax debt leftover

from my late husband. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. And I went to a company in Orion, June,

and started a fresh start program. What is that? I'll get tax debt relief.

Exactly. Oh, man. Exactly. The neighbor's company is better tax relief. Oh, there we go.

Right. Power on. Okay. Have you given them a bunch of money and you've made zero progress?

No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money that I needed. It was,

they were quoted me $15,000 and it was going to, they were going to get me into a hardship program

and it was called the fresh start program. How much money do you make here, Brandy?

I make about 65 and I just recently got married in December. Okay. Together, we have not

combined our checking accounts because of this IRS debt. Okay. How much does he make here?

About 75. Okay. You don't want them to see his income is what you're thinking. Exactly. I don't want

them to get a hold of his checking account. My name is not on his checking account for that reason.

We share our money. We pay the bills together. Sure. You know, but my name is not on his account

because I don't want IRS to go after his account. Okay. Can you get your money back from this,

these folks? Yeah. I don't know. How can we help you, Brandy? What do you need from us?

Okay. So I contacted one of your people. Yeah. I used to call them ELPs. I wanted to call

our tax trust approach. Yeah. Right. Okay. So I contacted one in Alabama. He was the nearest one

and he was a, he's just a CPA and he's like, he says, I've heard of this place. They have good

reviews on Google. They have a lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my

question was he recommended another tax attorney that is local to me in, I live in Mississippi,

just outside of New Orleans. Not 20 minutes. That's on the wall. So he recommended a tax professional

a tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of the situation to

handle it from start to finish. Wow. Okay. So I went back to better tax relief and they knocked

my fee down and said for the balance of about $5,000, they would finish the case and that they do

have tax attorneys on staff. Yeah, but you're, you're still just talking about fees. Have they

talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000? They have not yet. Okay.

I have all of my trust. I don't know this company and never even heard of them. I have all of my

trust in tax attorneys. I would look at incentives when you hire an attorney that attorney works for

you. Okay. You are working for this other group right now. They're like the middle, you're basically

paying the middle man. Right. Yeah. And see, my husband's been saying, I've had a bad feeling

about this since the beginning because I was, I was pressured and I was like, oh my God, they're

going to come after me. You made $6,000. It's a lot of money. Right. Right. You're scared. You made

a decision out of fear, right? I'm urgency fans. Yep. So I don't know the process, but just

personally sitting here just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than

what seven months of working with a company, you don't have a relief number yet. You don't have

an negotiated settlement yet. I don't, I don't have anything. That blows my mind. Yes. And how much,

you said you've given them half of the 15, half of the 15. So and then they said they can do it for

five, meaning the additional five, or they're going to pay you $2,000 back so that you have no, I

would still have to pay another five, two, whichever one I choose to go with. If I choose to stay

with better tax, because you're original seven grand that you've paid them is just done.

I don't know. I can see if I can retook any of that. That's, yeah, I don't know about that.

Okay. But I'm looking at $5,000 more to get an answer. But I think that and hearing you to just now

just told me I'm going to go with the attorney's office. Yes. I would call this company and I want

a full accounting of what you have done for me for my $7,500 I've given you over the last seven.

I want every phone call logged. I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement you've

offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. If you can't provide that,

I want my money back because I think what they're doing is just trash in your credit. My credit's

trash. I think they're just like that. Yeah. And then you don't have what I would see as you don't

have to do any moral slipperyness with Willis. Don't do his money and let's let's get somebody who

can get in with the IRS, get a negotiated settlement, get a dollar amount. And you'll probably get

it put on a payment plan and you can put on a payment plan. We have paid off assay pay. I'm really

hoping for innocent spouse, but this company hasn't said that in the attorney's offices like

we keep going for innocent spouse, I don't see why you wouldn't get it. Right. See this okay,

and Brandy, I mean, honestly, it's like working with an attorney, if you think about it,

they've gone to school for this. This is what they do day in and day out. They work for you.

This relief company is like a who knows who opened it up. They make so much money. It reminds me

not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies,

they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperation in desperate moments. I mean, honestly,

I hate saber. I mean, exactly you. I'm like, yes, we are freaking out. My wages are going to be

garnished. The IRS is after me. Help me and then help debt relief companies right there of their

sign. And you're like, there is no recourse for you if they call you back next month and say,

well, we tried nothing doing. They've kept your money. And you know what? Yeah. And that's just

that's right. So I think it's a stupid tax that you just knock it up to if they don't pay you

back the $7,000. Great attorney is worth every single penny a pack because they they it's like

they take up a sword and shield on your behalf. And they say, game on. And that's what that's what

you hire them for. Yeah. And even the term they just threw out to you, right? The innocent spouse

here. And I can't believe it. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm trying not to get angry on the phone.

Innocence spouse, I applied for instance, but then the IRS shut down the government shut down

and that hurt me. Right. But then having an attorney on your side, right? That right goes forward

and tries again and all of it is worth everything. Thank you. Just thank you all so much. We are

doing so good in y'all just so proud of you. How much of the guys? I know this is the big debt

you're looking at. How much have you guys paid off? We had a hundred and forty thousand and we're

down to seventy two thousand since January of last year. Oh my gosh. We paid up about seventy

thousand in a year. Yes. We plan to be debt free except for the house by the end of this year.

What with the exception of the IRS will have that settled. Sure. Yeah. Okay. But settlement does

it mean it goes away. Settlement means they're going to kill for the number. Right. Right. Right.

Well, I thought that the fifteen thousand was my settlement and that was going to be paid off

this year too. I'm running now that that was just their fee. Wow. Yeah. They swindled you. Right.

Yep. So that's a seven thousand dollars deep attack. That is like having sat with. Having sat

with widows like that makes me so enraged on your behalf. This someone would take somebody in that

moment of pain. They just lost their right or die and then to find out there was a hundred grand

they didn't know about and then to come in and be like, oh we got you. Give me fifteen thousand

dollars. I'll call you back in seven months. Seven months. Eight months. That's so enraging to me.

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available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Caitlin in New York. Caitlin writes,

My fiance and I recently moved into a house together. I am not on the mortgage,

but I live here and he pays the bills. His dad helped him by the house and my fiance pays

his dad instead of a mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiance uses a credit card that's also

paid for by his dad. Oh, geez. His dad is a big fan of yours and a very smart businessman.

Sounds like a raving fan. Loves us, but this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise.

When I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way, he gets defensive

and upset. I don't know who if that's your father-in-law soon to be or your fiance. What should be

my first step to fix this problem? Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiance

that if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage. I'm not marrying your dad to.

We have to put some boundaries in place right now. You're getting a very clear picture of what your

future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown-up man's

body who's dad still pays his bills. His dad still tells him what to do. His dad still hit the

shadow of his father leans over your house. If this is my sister, if this is my daughter, if this

is my friend, I would say I would draw some real firm boundaries. Yes, because if you can't handle

it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it well. Wait till you have a kid.

Wait till you get a job in another state and daddy says you can't move. Even if it was a debit card

and his dad's paying, you know, funding his checking account. Also, so that's the issue. The dad

and then also the fact that debt is being interwoven through this entire picture. And if you're not

okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal.

I always, I feel like a shallow person and I'm always like, oh my gosh, money can ruin the

relationship because it feels like, no, that shouldn't love, should conquer all. But the truth is,

when like rubber meets the road and you guys day in and day out are dealing with your life,

this is one of the biggest, the biggest issues of marriage that can cause so much conflict

if you're not on the same page. So can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill

battle. And sometimes it's like, you just fight and fight and fight all day long about it. And it's,

and it doesn't create peace in the household. But in this situation, what turns my stomach is,

if you go to a mortgage lender to get a loan for a home, there is regulatory bodies that monitor

that. There's agreements, there's contracts. Yes. Those things guide your relationship.

Yes. In this situation, your future father-in-law owns y'all. He tells y'all what you're going to do

when you're going to do because he is your bank, he is your lender. And I'm not having that because

there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day. Yeah,

mixing family money. And also, can I, I'll just say this on behalf of the dad in this situation.

I have a 15 year old. You know what? I'm gonna tell the story. Josephine and I, my daughter,

she's 10. We went on on a date the other day. Yeah. And after we were done eating, she said,

dad, there's this cool dress shop. She didn't know this. It's the dress shop. It's anthropology.

Back in the old school, back OG anthropology, like I used to get my wife gift cards when we had

nothing, I would save up and save up and save up. And that would be like a Christmas present for her.

Because I think they're closer rat, right? Or they were back in the day. I don't pay attention.

And we went in there and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive. And she, she lit up

and she goes, can I try this on? And I was like, you can try that on. And I was a hundred percent

going to buy it. I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I'm totally buying that. Like,

there's no reason financially. She can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. I buy my

daughter that dress. And of course, it was like 17 sizes to be. But like, I get the sentiment as

a parent of wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck. I'm clearing the path for my kids as much

as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to have the same heartache I had.

I never, my dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. Like, he wouldn't have

the money to buy something even if he wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We,

as parents, have to understand that that impulse, when taken too far, hurts our kids. It's walking

into the weight room, taking all the weight off the bar, and then wondering whether or not getting

stronger. Yes. Well, that's how I was going to ask you. Let me give the lifts for you.

Because I read all this. And sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation. Yes.

To this dad, you know, I mean, how hard is it? Or how often do you see married couples? And

it's, it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents

over the spouse. Is that pretty common? Super, super common. And not usually to this degree,

whether you're lender and their financing your life, but even on things as strange as,

like someone's been married 20 years and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way,

because my mom's right. And so in a weird way, your mother-in-law still run in your life,

right? So that happens all over the place. We probably have mutual friends that like still have

been married. They have three kids, and they still hide the wine when, you know,

when mom comes over. Right, right. And so there comes a point when you have to say,

I'm an adult. If I'm old enough to ask the question, will you marry me?

Then I have to, it is. Dad holds the blame here, but now that this guy said, I want you to marry me,

he has to stand up, take responsibility and look at his father and say, thank you for bringing me

here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take

it from here. And if his dad does a temper tantrum, then he's going to have a hard grown-up decision to

make, but that's the, that's the, that's the call of a, of a new husband. Yeah. And weirdly,

if I'm her and he does that, and even if the dad throws the tantrum, wait. Temper tantrum.

Temper tantrum, I can't say the word. There, there's something about if the, if the fiance continues to

push through though and continues to choose her, that shows even bigger who he is, right? So like,

it is a little bit of this like, yes, yes, and at all. But when you ask somebody, will you marry me?

They go to number one on your list. Yeah. Above your parents, above, above everything,

that person anchoring into that person comes priority. Yeah. Okay. We got about two minutes, John.

Would you say from a relational standpoint, we're talking about like parents, child relationships,

sort of, I mean, adult child, but child. But when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about

them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other places, probably like one or two of the

biggest issues that continue to like drive a wedge financially in a marriage?

I mean, the biggest one, number one is people have my money and your money. Yeah. So your 40,000,

this is my 60,000, right? Like it's a billion dollars, right? But they try to, they're driving

two cars down the highway right next to each other, trying to pretend that they're in the same car,

and they're not, right? So that's the first one. The second one without a doubt is financial

and fidelity, secrets. I bought this and didn't tell them, I'm going to buy this. Don't you tell your

dad everything from a cup of coffee all the way to the new car, the new guitar, or like we took a

call earlier about the, I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money and myself. So it's secrets,

it's lies, it's deception. Yeah. Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting to about that

dynamic, because I've heard people say that, it's like, oh, just yeah, don't, yeah, put the, put

the shopping bags away before dad gets home so that he doesn't see it. Because that means dad

isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement. That's the other side of it, right?

That's wild to me. Whenever people say that, I'm always like, but that's so, unless they have a hidden

account, right? Which is one thing. But the whole shopping is, I mean, this is, it's like a joke.

I feel like among women is like, okay, if you go to target, hide the target bags kind of thing.

Which whenever I hear them, I'm always like, yes, but doesn't that show up? And is it someone

looking at the checking account, right? And if just one person is, I give that a red flag of like,

you both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. It's one reason I do love every dollar with

all the transactions that come in, because once tonight, because it pops up on the phone. And sometimes

it comes up a weird name that I did this yesterday. I was trying to screenshot and I text them,

like, what is this? I thought it's insurance. And I was like, who shoot? Okay, there we go. I wasn't

sure what that was. But it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples

out there, there are so many things with money that can drive a wedge. And it can be one of the reasons

of divorce in America Day, one of the top reasons, but it doesn't have to take your marriage, right?

There are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together,

have a plan together, have goals together, and be in one car, like what John was saying,

versus driving in two cars down the streets. Be a team.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting it

today with Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call at AAA8255225. We are taking your questions

about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City and we have Austin on the line. Hi,

Austin. Hey, Rachel. Hey, John. How's it going? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Hey, so I got married just this last summer, and just enjoying married life, and we've

combined our lives, combined our finances. But I'm kind of having a hard time. I feel like my wife

isn't super involved with the finances. I feel like it's kind of all on me, which is fine,

I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot. I'm just wondering if I should strive

harder to get her more involved? Sasha, how could I do that? And then I also kind of have a fear

that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot, but not really know what

to do with as far as finances go. So I'll answer this question backwards. I have sat with multiple

wives who have said the words, I don't know what to do. I don't know where the money is. I don't

know where the accounts are. I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that,

I've experienced that second hand sitting with somebody. So your fear is 100% right. But I would

say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved. But I want to ask you a question

first. Is that cool? Sure. Is she not involved because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and

talk about this and like you're kind of annoying to be around? Or, and I'd say that laughingly, by the

or is she just like not care? Not care. Laughingly probably the first one, but also the second one.

Okay. So like I am that way. But also I thought she just doesn't care. Well, and sometimes people

don't care because they really just I just don't care. Like my mom didn't do it. My grandma didn't

do it. So I guess I'm not going to do it. And then sometimes people just take their stuff and they

go home because they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't

know how you're using all these Excel formulas and clawed and inthropic. So I'm just going to

or whatever. Right. And so I think for you as a new husband, establishing in your relationship,

like telling her, I'm sorry. I set this up this way. Your voice matters here. I want you at the

table here. And we're going to co make decisions. And one of you is going to like in my in my marriage,

my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever. But we

talk about it. Right. So one of y'all's going to do the nuts and bolts of it. But y'all being

together is critical, man. Yeah. So the the opposite's a track thing is real Austin. She probably will

never be someone that's like so excited to see her Excel sheets. Like that's just not going to

probably be her. And I can say that because that's me. I am not that's not me. Winston is that. He

loves all the details and does all this like projecting out on things. And I'm like, that's great.

But I'm not like super excited about it. But we sit down every month. And now I mean,

it's been 17 years. So now it's like, you know, quick 17 16. I'm jumping ahead. But yeah,

16 years. But I mean, it's quick conversations. But we do a budget. We have every dollar transactions

come in. I usually track them. Like we are still on the same page. But to John's point, you know,

I he's the one that presses the buttons in our life of like, yeah, here. I'm going to pay these bills

and everything. But I'm still involved. And so I think that's the balance is you have to

understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table, Austin's going to be really good

for you. Like you may need to loosen up a little bit too, right? So she's a gift to you in that.

But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult. She's a grown woman. She's married,

which means you have to do adult things. Even though you don't like it, even though it's not your

strength, and it's not exciting to you, you have to do adult things. And adult things is learning

how to manage a household financially. And again, she may not be pumped about it, but that is

part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the numbers and do a budget

together, have her change two or three things on the budget, like whether it's amounts or she needs

to add a category, like you do need her involved. And then you guys can kind of start working out

of that. So that's what I would say. You probably need to like chill a little bit with her and not

be so detailed. But then also she, on her end, she has to pull her way to say, yeah, I may not

want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult. And we have to do things we don't always like.

Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah. How old are you guys?

Oh, she probably wouldn't like insane this. I'm 31 and she's in her early 30s.

She went in like you say, I thought she would say she's like 18 and you're

I thought you were going to say she's 51. She would like you saying you're eight.

A little bit older than me. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's something magic, especially in a new

relationship with somebody saying, you know what? I should have screwed this up out of the gate.

And I'm sorry, I really want your voice at the table here. And I can be really annoying with

my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that. Or in vice versa. Hey, I've been really

annoying with just being like, whatever. I'm never going to be in a spreadsheet, but I want to be

a part of the money car like wherever you follow on that of saying, I have set this dynamic up

in a bad way. And I want to be a part of changing it. So good move on your part, bro. Awesome,

Austin. Thanks. All right. Let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

When my husband retired from his first job, he received the pension and we took the pension and

purchased a ten-year deferred annuity. We realized how bad this decision was later.

And we're wondering now if we should take the 10% surrender charge hit and just remove our

principle and invest it with our other retirement money, hopefully making that back. Yes. I mean,

that's usually how much is in there? Right now there's 366,000. Oh my gosh.

Yes, because they'll clear your debt, right? Oh, we don't have any. Oh, even better. Oh my gosh.

Okay. I'm a little bit on our mortgage. Yeah. When, um, okay. When did he, when did he get this?

We purchased it in 2023. Okay. So it's fairly nearly 8,000. Yeah. Yeah. And we realized you

channel with no surrender charge take 10% a year, but that's just a slow. Well, I was going to

say that. Yeah. And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of

it too, but I don't think there's not to be a lot because it's so new. Well, um, the interest that

supposedly earns versus the fees they're charging us, the fees are more than the metrics. Yes.

I know. That's the thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high. And the person

that's selling them, it's a pretty good, gets a pretty good deal. Yeah, Debbie, I would, you're

going to have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though, because that's going to, it's going

to hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or

something. Oh my gosh. That's going to grow. How old are you guys? I'm 60 59. Okay. Okay. So you

guys are at that, at that point, because we have, we have other retirement investment. We are

about 1.2 million without this. Okay. Is it a fixed or variable mixture? This is flexible premium.

Okay. I don't know if that answers your question. Okay. Do you have a smart investor pro?

No, but we do have a financial advisor that we've been working with. Not the one that sold you this,

is it? No, definitely. Yeah, I would talk to them and run the numbers because you guys are at

retirement age and seeing, you know, what the, because what you would pay in penalties versus

if you just slowly took this out over time because you're at that age, I, I would run the numbers,

but man, more than likely, just for your kid's sake, from a, from a legacy perspective,

if you were to leave your kid something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's,

that's earning more interest than what you guys are doing.

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If you have kicked debt to the curve and curb, curb, curb. I've always said curb.

What do you think it is? Kick to the curb, kick to the curve. It's not the curve. It's the curves.

That's what my sheet says. As I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if it's

kicked to the curve. That's what I said. It's like wrong burgundy and reading my sheet.

Okay, listen, if you are debt free and you have a fully funded emergency funds, do you know where

you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027. Not in the curve because you've kicked it. You

kicked that curve. On the live, no one else crews. That's right, people. We are back. We did this

last year and it was so fun. It was a boat full people that are doing the Ramsey plan and who are

debt free and doing all the things we are and we loved it. It was such a great time. So it's Dave

Ramsey, all the Ramsey personalities, we're all going to be there on March 14th through the 21st,

2027. We're going to the Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cosymale and cabins are limited. So save

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limited. So make sure to purchase one if you go to ramsey solutions.com slash events. And I

think it's, I saw the numbers two days ago. I think it's right at 50% sold. So half the boat. All

those people kick in their debt to the curve. The curve, I was like, I don't know, that's right.

All right, let's go to Salt Lake City and we have Grace who is on the line. Hi Grace.

Hi guys, how are you guys today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So I'm going to try to make this like not long. It's really hard with the situation,

but basically me and my partner were both still technically married. He has two kids.

Mom is gone. We're raising the two kids with us too. We decided to combine our finances

last summer. And we're in $91,000 of debt accumulated. Okay. And our monthly income is like 5,700

after taxes. And we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses too. Last week,

we found out I was pregnant. And then we did you say your Grace, I'm so sorry. Did you say

you're married to him? We are both married to different people. Okay. So we live together and we

combined our finances. Are you guys both in the middle of divorces?

Yes. So mine's finished in February. So mine's done almost. Okay.

Kids, we haven't even started because of the custody and all that. You know,

I would not. I would, if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend,

I would tell you do not combine your finances to that mess until it is cleared.

Okay. Like please, please, please don't.

Because it can get so taken when like our, like our win all these things are already accumulated.

Just leave in Moe each other. If you need to. Yeah. But don't, don't, don't put your names on

each other's stuff. Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that.

Oh, okay. I see. Yeah. I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts

and everything like that. But we like I'll pay his bills. He'll pay myself. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Like you know, our college roommates right now, because here's the deal, Grace, he hasn't even

gone through a divorce when they go through and do all the mediation and they do, you know, they,

they take all the assets and all of it. If you're paying on his, on his debt, like you're,

you're, you know, in that situation, I don't know, it gets all, it gets all muddled so quickly.

Yeah, I guess the problem is is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car

payments. We don't own houses. There's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like

we are living weeks to week. Like we live off his paychecks one week. We live off my paychecks

one week. That's how we're living our life. Okay. He's on the phone. So I just want to talk to you.

Is that cool? He's not on the phone. No, I'm saying like I, right now I want you to focus on what

you can control. Okay. Okay. How much money do you make? I make. So what makes it complicated to

is I'm on commission based salary. So I make my baseline is about $2,500 a month.

And then more like 24. So I get paid like 1200 by weekly. And then sometimes I take is $700

in a bonus in a month. And then sometimes it's $3,000. Sometimes it's $4,000. Sometimes it's $2,500.

Or if I don't make gold, I don't like last month, I didn't get a bonus at all.

Okay. So that feels like you are very economically insecure. Right.

What was your W2 last year? Or would you report on your taxes last year?

48,000. Okay. So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is we call it the

the hills and valleys funds fund, if you will. So I would be so diligent. And again,

if this gets really complicated because you guys are sharing bills and all of it. Now you're

sharing a human, right? Okay. So as much as you can to go through and draw a line and say,

okay, here's what I would know, right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. Like if you can function

like roommates financially, I think that's going to be really important because I want you to get

your money in order. So what John was getting at is, hey, Grace, how much do you make? How much do you

make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your commission, right? And so how do we

create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is, yeah, when you

have a great month, that means you're probably going to put, you know, a thousand bucks or so into

this other account so that when you have a month that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission,

you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills. So it needs to have a really, really

black and white situation financially with him. Okay. That's the cleanest way to do it. And then

when he gets through all of his divorce stuff and you guys, I mean, I'm assuming you guys get married

eventually. Yeah, that's the goal. Like, I guess where it's complicated is that like this $5,000

retainer is what's holding this up because like the way that we, because I've been listening to

you guys on the show and basically we were, you know, thinking we should combine everything and do

everything like that. Not until you're married. We want, if we could be married, we would have

already gone to the courthouse. But you're, yes, I hear you, but it's not an emotional, it's a,

it's a legal issue, right? So like, it's not, oh gosh, we want to be married. So we should

combine finances. No, no, no, you're not legally married. You have no protection. So, so no,

we're not combining finances. And as his the $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out.

Right. So I, yeah, I know, but Grace, listen to me and I know you don't want to hear this.

We're just telling you because we do this. We do, we take these calls all day every day.

The chances of you working extra shifts, paying $4,000 of this $5,000 retainer,

you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce and then suddenly they reconcile

or suddenly he doesn't love you anymore or suddenly whatever. And the reason I know that you have

a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage. What you'll find yourself with

is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing. Yeah. And so I care about the woman on the phone

that I'm talking to. I care about him too, but I'm not talking to him. He needs to come up with his

money for his divorce. You, by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that.

I feel like there's two people who are F math students trying to work together to get an A on

an exam. Yeah. Right. And so I want you to work on your math skills. And it may be I got to

get a different job. It may be I've got to figure out some new things, but I want you to start getting

concrete under your feet because your your life right now is a is a seesaw. And that's exhausting.

Right. And he can play on the seesaw all day long, but I want you to stand on the sidewalk

on firm con. And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical financial issue.

It's a relational issue. Big time. When you like like if you do this, I will be surprised.

Like it would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing.

And then you look up in two years and sadly a reality hits that's not which the not the picture

you painted. But or you do what we say or what we recommend. I mean, honestly, and and you do

this. And then he goes through all of his stuff. And my prayer is that sure at the end of all of it,

you guys are still in love. You have a baby. And then you've had a you have a strong financial

foundation under you. Heat as as well. You guys get married. You combine it all. And then you you

go from there and you're actually building on something strong, not something that is so shaky

like it is now. But the way to do it, the smart way to build is separately. Financial, you need to

be separate. You are roommates, financial. You have to think about it that way.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make

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Well here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from one to four here on the

glass. We have always a wonderful audience that that comes out. And over to the side, we have

the debt-free stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so we have

we have Matthew and Bri from Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome you guys. Thank you. We're very

excited to be here. Oh my gosh. Okay. So you're obviously on the stage. Yep. You guys are debt-free.

That's correct. How much debt did you pay off? 110,000. Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

Two car notes, a little bit of student loans and some personal loans. Oh my gosh. All personal debt.

All consumer debt. Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any credit card debt, thankfully. Yes.

But we just decided to get after it and just paid it off. I love it. How long did it take you?

About ten months. Oh my gosh. So what were you guys making during that time? Roughly about

about 115 a year give or take. I work in healthcare and so it can kind of fluctuate. I'm just on

the overtime. I'm a CT tech. And so we decided last year to go on an adventure. And instead of

travel nursing, think of travel CT. And so we rented out our house originally in Las Vegas. That's

where I'm from. And I'm from North Carolina. Okay. So moved to Las Vegas. Which is where we met.

Yep. They got married. And then we wanted to downsize everything. And then we did a tiny house

living. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was pretty narrow. It was pretty gnarly. Oh my gosh. I'm telling you

I'm married. Three and a half years. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But literally last year it was about a year

ago today. We just looked at each other and we're like, we make too much money to be this darn broke

as days. Yes. Yes. Yes. And we knew that we didn't necessarily want to go into any more debt.

Planning this move or moving or anything. Yeah. And so we kind of drew out a plan. And

both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee.

Okay. And so and I worked for a health care corporation. That's pretty big out here. And then

I got the job for Vanderbilt. But just we feel really, really blessed and really. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. A lot of prayer was over this. And so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a lot of

years of praying and figuring out like we're God was calling us to go. So amazing. And so we did

tell our house. So that was a big a big thing that just kind of just helped it. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you guys basically you basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a

year. So I was like, so something must have happened. Yes. So we paid off roughly about 20 grand

during the time of the whole travel thing because we've been out here since mid July. And so

we made the move out. But we we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt with that move

because it was halfway across the country. Yeah. So it was really kind of a really kind of an experience

just eaten, you know, homemade pizza and just kind of, you know, so we just went on so many walks

and like the mountains and the nature and just like the stillness. And that's really yeah,

what we just soaked in. So amazing. You guys. So whose idea was it? So Tim, let's go. Who was the

one that like brought the conversation to the table that you were like? So I had I had to actually

take in Dave's class like almost like 15, 16 years ago. Oh, yeah. And so I think it was like a 13-week

course back then. Oh, yes. Yeah. That's right. When I was like 19 and I was like, oh my gosh,

I have to start investing. I just started doing all this stuff. And so I was able to go to college

debt-free, just, you know, work, work in multiple jobs. And then we got married kind of,

kind of sorry. Yeah, we could get married first. And then we had our

and so we kind of lived the, I hate to say this, but like the day of it, we kind of just fell into

that. Yeah, but monotony. And then like I said last year, we really looked at each other like,

this is ridiculous. And I didn't really know much about Dave Ramsey or anything. And so he

introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just like getting after it. And I love

traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job

could travel, I was like, oh, the best of both worlds. And so yeah, that's kind of how we went

with that route. Yeah. And so we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we

didn't want to go into any more debt for that. Yes. If that way. And so you stopped that.

So you're like, no, more debt. So we had to say we got to be thinking about this move.

Right. Exactly. In a wise way. Well, still thinking about all this other debt you have,

you know, we want to start paying it off. Exactly. And so when we just, you know,

it's downsized, everything we could fit into our Subaru. And then we had a trailer that we also

had some stuff on it. And we sold that in Colorado. And then that's what we brought with us.

And then when we got here about seven months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff

and we're in our apartment right now. Okay. And so yeah, we're excited for you guys.

Yeah. And so we don't venture. It's been crazy. It's been so much change, but we're just excited

now to like settle down, hopefully have kids. And really, yeah, just see what's next. How does it feel?

It feels free. It feels really good. Really. Like it's just like, like a brick has been

taken off off our chest because we knew that like it was coming, you know, but it's just such

relief. And we're never going back. Yeah. No, definitely not. So I want to throw this example out.

You guys are in Nashville right now. Yeah. We're on the goal, Cherry. And y'all went through this

wild storm last week. Yeah. And my wife and I were talking, like imagine being in that moment.

And we have to get out of here. We need to go get a hotel or something. And we can't. Yeah.

And y'all are debt free. Y'all go through this first big storm. And what y'all got to do is

what y'all wanted to do. Yeah. Because you've worked for this all this time. Sold everything. Yeah.

Yeah. But we put ourselves in a position to not if but when life happens. Yes. We get to decide

what happens next. Yes. Yeah. It's just, um, you know, I've heard both of you say, you know, it's

it's not an emergency. It's just an inconvenience. Yes. And it's it's kind of. Yeah. It's like weather or

you got to travel for a family thing like whatever it is. You're like, okay, we can do this. Yeah.

We're good experience that since we moved here because things happen. Car crashes. All these random

things and or like a hospital bill from like way back when two years ago shows up and you're like,

what? And then you just paid off and you're like, whoa, like that was a really cool feeling. And

we just know that it was all through God and him helping us. Yeah. The whole time. And so it was kind

of we took care of, you know, we were we were obviously chopping away at that tree on baby step

two. But then we with the soul of the house, we just took care of baby step three as well.

Good. So how much did you get for the house when you sold? We got over six figures. And so

it was a big chunk of change. That's right. So we were able to put a little bit away and now it's

just kind of sitting in an account. And we want to buy a home out here hopefully. But we're

no rush. Should we get to kind of just take a breather and just kind of just your patient. Nothing

is urgent. Yeah, nothing is there. There's a great restaurant to the goals and y'all can just

go with what exactly is nice. So what would you say besides selling a really nice house? What

would you say the key of getting out of debt is what was one of the things that was so helpful?

Obviously, we've been together for, you know, three, three and a half years in communication.

Yeah. I think definitely like it has to be both of everybody's idea like coming together and

like what that looks like. And so kind of like finding that compromise of what that would be. And

so for us, it was traveling. But for other people, it could look different. Uh-huh. And so finding

something that just inspires you to get to that point. Yeah, and I'm the free spirit. And she's

the definitely budget-minded. Now I am. But it used to be the free spirit. So we've, we've

got it. I'm kind of like you. Yeah. I'm such a free spirit. But I'm going to track all the

transactions. And that's what my mom always did just in the household and just like now just being

married a little bit. It's not been that long, but just seeing like parent roles and like what they

did and like how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be, you know, in charge of. And so I'm just

trying to. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. That's great. Well, you guys are awesome. And and how you are,

you know, personally, why is you lean into that? How great. Which is amazing. And I see that in

you guys. You create such a great team. Yeah. Which is so fun. And just the diligence and the

adventure. Yeah, that's a good story. I heard somebody say that, but every couple has to pick

their sacrifice. Yes. And for y'all, it's selling the house for y'all it was we're going to travel

or we're not going to travel. For me and my wife might be some different. But every couple has to

get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. All right. You guys ready? Yeah.

We're going to come down. Okay. So we have Matthew and Bri from Colorado now live in Nashville,

Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000 of debt. That's car student loans and personal loans in

10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right. You guys count it down.

Let's hear it. Three, two, one. We're going to free.

Amazing. Oh my gosh. It's a joy. It's how it's done, people. That is how it's done. Dude, they're smiling

and dancing.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real

money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime

with ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on

the show, whether you're making a decision or just want something explained ask Ramsey is here

to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try ask Ramsey today.

That's RamseySolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 2911. For I know the plans I have for you to

play as the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Jim Collins said, it is better to understand who you are than where you are going for where you

are going will almost surely change. I love that quote. That's good. Do you think we change, though?

Yes. So both both hands, right? Jim, understand who you are, more than where you're going

because where you're going is going to change, but also who you are may change too. You need to

kick that to the curve. I don't know. What? That attitude. I'm totally kidding. You said we can change

too. I don't know. I like it all. I kind of like these quotes are always great. We've done them for

the entire beginning of the show. There's always a scripture and always a quote. Sometimes these

quotes I like to kind of pick them apart. See what I would say differently. All right, not that I

would correct Jim Collins. I'm sorry, Jim. So no, much more than me. I'm going to stick with your

quote, Jim. All right, let's go to April in St. Louis. Hi, April. Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing

great. How can we help today? So I'm in a great situation. I've paid off all my debt and I'm

investing. However, I want to know how you define the line of being generous without becoming

the family bailout. Oh, good question. What's the situation? Why would you be the family bailout?

Like what's the family? What's the family need bailing out of a lot of things actually. So I've

a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy and she's got two kids. I've been helping her with car

situations. So I bought her a car actually, ironically in April. And it just took a, it just

the engine just went on that. So I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car.

And then my parents did not plan for their retirement. They're living on social security

and drowning because they've also taken on more debt that they can actually pay.

Some of my dad does door dash, but they are drowning and they can't really pay their bills.

So they come to me quite often to help out. Gosh, okay. So your situation, you obviously

have done well. What's your net worth? All right. No. Well, I guess I'm married now.

Yeah. Our net worth is just about three million. Okay. And you guys are debt, I mean, debt

free everything. Yeah. You guys doing great. Completely debt free. Yeah. Oh, good.

I went through my own journey of realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards

and auto loans and student debt. And I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between

25 and 32 of being debt free and then starting to invest. And then my husband, he had a really

great example. So he bought a home when he was 25 and was able to pay that off quickly. Yeah.

You guys were just why I see that situation. But my fortune, I mean, you worked for it.

You made smart decisions too. So give yourself that great. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

So I like to think of generosity as a, as a, it's like an approach, right? It's like a,

it's like a spirit of. And so everybody has to decide what that means for themselves.

Some people's generosity, they look at it like an ROI. I want to, I want to give to something.

I want to give to things that I want to see multiply. Some people like to give and just because

I want to be a part of what you're doing. Some people want to give because I don't like it,

but it's the right thing. I have deemed it to be the right thing, right? But none of that comes

from a spirit of guilt. And none of it, and here's the other thing, none of it comes from a spirit of

somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this. Because then my guilt ends up

putting somebody in a worse position. It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position,

but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes is, is the problem that I grapple with.

Yeah, but the challenge is they're not interested in learning right now.

Correct. Right. And so I think it's having that kind of conversation. And it sounds to me,

in my head, there would be a difference between my parents situation and my sister, right?

But again, everybody's different. That's like me and I'm just like taking care of.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's cool to say like they didn't plan so they're on their own,

but also I'm not going to let my parents be homeless, right? Right.

Especially if I'm in a position where I can help out. And so, but I might sit down and say,

hey, if you take on any more debt, I can't contribute to this.

Right? Yeah. Or I need you to make. Have you had heart conversations in general April

with them? Yeah. Yeah. I have. And I've even sat down and like worked budgets with them. And then

they, you know, the next month, they just blow that up and they do whatever they want and they buy

whatever they want. So we've gone through several conversations of how can they do better?

And what can we do to set them on the right path? They went through their own foreclosure and

bankruptcy like six years ago. I mean, nothing's waking them up. It sounds like.

No, that they've had two bankruptcies actually. So you go through financial literacy training

with a bankruptcy. So it really boggled my mind that they're just not learning.

How old are they? They're 70. Yeah. They're just 70. And what would happen if you didn't,

I'm just curious, if you did not give them any money, what would what would happen to them?

Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like logistically, what happens?

I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent. Then they would

eventually have some eviction process. And then what? I don't know. Because physically, they also can't,

they're not physically, financially, they're not capable. Like we're actually looking at my mom

going into an assisted living because of how bad things are. And so it's more than just

financial. But it's, you know, I love to dedicate my time to help them with their problem.

And I do dedicate my money. But, you know, there's a, there's a given take. Yeah. Well, I,

personally, if I, if somebody comes to me, if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me,

says, Hey, I'm struggling with XYZ. I need some help. I'm much more likely to say, I will help

with this car repair. Or I will pay the landlord directly. Or I, me and two of my siblings will

contribute to, you know, the long term care. I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash.

Right. Right. Right. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this because you have proven,

have proven over and over, you can't handle this stuff. I think you and your husband need to get

in a room together and just decide, yeah, what is he saying? What are our boundaries going to be?

What's your husband say about it? Um, so this is where we break all the Ramsey rules because

we've been together 13, 14 years married three of those. And we've never completely merged

or checking. Okay. So you're, does he know you're giving them money? He knows. Okay. Yeah. He knows.

Yeah. And it's always a conversation every time I do it because, yeah, you know, it's our future.

Well, we do have planning together. This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think this is the moment, April, honestly, that you guys combine everything.

And you say, we are a team, which means we're going to tackle one of the hardest issues.

Probably we're going to have to in a while. And that's what is being generous with my parents

looks, looks like. And we're going to agree together on that with our money. And there's something

about that spirit that kind of like, it's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard

thing. But there's a part of me that's like it kind of forces it all out there for you guys and,

and it forces you to face the music together. And for you to maybe hear some things, you may not

want to hear or need to hear vice versa with him. I don't know. There's something about it

that I'm like, you guys need to go all in together. And this is kind of like one of the springboard

moments to allow it. Yeah. And you have to like, I would just metabolize it. Nothing you can say

or do is going to change how your parents act. Yeah. That ship has sailed. Yeah. You have to decide

what are you going to contribute out of a spirit of generosity? And I'm going to do

X, Y, or Z. But we're done trying to teach. As for your sister, maybe you say, this is the last

time I bail you out, unless you want to do a budget with me. Thanks for the call, April. Thanks

everyone in the booth. John, thank you as always. And remember, there's ultimately only one way

to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.