Fashdance

0:00Mhmm, mhmm, mhmm, mhmm At Farmers, our honesty is contagious Wait, am I gonna catch honesty? Well, when you're with Farmers, it's kind of inevitable Well, how long does it take to... I lied to you when you asked if I knew what a deductible was I don't know my dad's birthday, and I thought umbrella policies were for rainstorms Actual rainstorms I have it, don't I? You don't just have honesty You have Farmers, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop Learn more at Farmers.com Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Extranges Orphiliate, Products Not Available in Ever State All right, everyone. Welcome to ARCO Rewards Orientation. I'm Hannah Whoa. Uh, is everything okay? That's a code green. Someone just earned at least five cents a gallon in rewards Wow. Another one? Well, that one's a code gold. The customer just redeemed savings of up to a dollar a gallon Impressive. What does that one mean? Oh, that's just picky. He gets excited when we talk about rewards Savings of up to one dollar per gallon redeemable with $20 rewards dollars in your loyalty account A participating locations, terms and conditions apply

1:00I was pitching shows to the BBC right-wing versions of their existing programs See if I could get them commissioned So, for example, used to host the Great British Sewing Bee I made a right-wing version of that And the idea is everyone shows called Gary And I go round and I say, oh, what are you making, Gary? And Gary goes, toss the complainant And I'm going to be seated and want the BBC to be wanted So, um, pitch them a right-wing gardeners world Gardeners Britain, only white flowers, very strong borders they didn't want It's the right-wing top gear. It's exactly the same program Welcome to Quiett's riots, the cooler heads podcast that you're putt in a storm Rather than a storming of a port. I'm Naomi Smith And I'm Alex Andrew here to bring light, weather is shade And calm, weather is rage Or while giving you ideas for actions you can take To make your slice of the world we inhabit that little bit better

2:01So pop on the kettle, find a come feature And settle down for another Quiet Riot Hello and welcome to Quiet Riot, I'm Alex And I'm Naomi And I'm Kenny How are you both? We've just been discussing rain Because the first rain has come properly And we're luxurrating in the fact that the air is clean Because all the dust gets washed out of the air On the rain So celebrating rain, very pretty thing to do I think Yeah Well, I really enjoyed PMQ's I think he was very prepared for Israel So it was a maybe a little bit wrong-fisted When Kemi goes for him on the other stuff But before we begin the show I did just want to say how much I enjoyed Hearing a Labour leader, a Labour Prime Minister So not just a candidate running to be Labour Leader But an actual living breathing in post number 10 downing street Inhabitant talking about the need to get consensus across the country

3:06For constitutional change around, in particular, he's talking about devolution And powers being devolved through the regions and nations And I just made my liberal heart saying And it is a very liberal position to take And it's just not something we've heard Either from former Labour Prime Ministers Who have attempted to make constitutional changes Nor from conservatives When they obviously ran through the biggest constitutional change we've had In our lifetimes and the former Brexit So I still think he's doing very, very well I thank his whole PMQ's stance quite interesting Because he does seem quite genuinely open To what people are saying and to looking at stuff and working with people And he does actually listen to what people are asking And does try to answer the question And I find it quite interesting that conservatives seem to get impatient about that There's quite a lot of heckling When he takes a moment to think about what he's being asked and say I think that might be something that we can look at

4:08And I think they're still stuck in sort of attack mode I mean, this will delight Yeah, this will delight the core I think Kenny Bade-Nukz, Struppi Headgirl Act But over a number of weeks it might start to look like She's just unreasonable Of course it's just an unreasonable person Because I'm already kind of seeing that dynamic Not work well and it seems to make her furious When she doesn't go for that She just gets really angry And Kenny, I'd love to ask you about the comms approach Because obviously we talked about it so much In the two years that the Starmer operation was leading number 10 And how poor their comms output was I went to a brilliant event this morning with Yugov And in-house, the D.I. agency The really striking polling evidence that Yugov were putting up Was that there was almost no gap at all Between asking the public

5:09What do you think Andy Burnham wants to do And what do you expect that he will do Right Meaning that even if it wasn't the things they wanted him to do They had heard very loudly and clearly his intentions And can see him beginning to do it And you would never have got that Delsa being so small when you ask that same question No, an expectation of delivery Which is an immensely positive thing to hear And one of the very important things From a comms perspective of an organisation As big as Labour Party Is that these sort of cultural changes around communication Come from the top That if people are afraid of communicating in a particular way They will avoid communicating in a particular way But if the guy or the guy at the top leads in Or indeed encourages people to take a different approach That can sweep through an organisation very very quickly You get permission to behave in a very different way

6:11And the way Tim Montgomery definitely hasn't had that permission From Nigel Farrishan's novel outside the town Did you want to be MQ's and politics's live And him because he was on it Talking about the fact that he's now resigned from reform That's right, yeah I mean how long before he rejoiced the conservative Well indeed indeed You were saying that he quite like Kim is new direction or whatever But I was thinking My instinct is always to take the mic he out of his very Some resigning No I'm not resigning I'm resigning Going to another party I'm coming back to the previous party I'm going to another party But actually is he very representative of that kind of Vaxillating voter That keeps being seduced by reform And then veers back towards the conservatives Is he some sort of bell weather Half way there Potentially And but I think the problem for Farrish is worse than that I think there will be a chunk of

7:12Very traditional conservatives I think we could probably describe them as being That would Vassillating the way you described Tim Montgomery is doing But of course on the other end of his rank He has also got those That really cannot make up their minds On whether do we double down on reform Because we want a much more right-wing government Or do we actually go to the people who Are truly aligned with what we think which is restore And Tim Somebody like Tim as a authority, if you as well Which is that he really needs the He needs the clout That comes with making controversial statements Making controversial decisions as well He can't really afford literally probably To be to sense So many Or to your homeless Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that So it's a very, it's a very 21st century problem That he faces I think Right, so what shall we talk about this week? I think we have to talk about what happened at the weekend With the sort of team you paramilitaries

8:15Or Patriot platform And the fact that everyone seems to know precisely how to deal with them From the telegraph wanting to make them sort of Unbored train and detainment To most of blue sky as seems to want them all jailed But more importantly, have they a sign of gathering Strength by the far right Or have they a sign of increasing desperation I'd love to know your thoughts about Pleasure meeting those particular bones And on Friday's B side this week We're going to be chatting to our resident expert On German politics and Etta Dittert About the elections in Saxony and Halt Which is the first time a far right party Such as the EFD as one such a significant election And we'll be asking what it boards for Chancellor Merritts And indeed for the ruling Christian Democrats TLDR nothing good Last weekend hundreds of black clad balaclava wearing men Descended on Dover and then Port Smith

9:16In Dover on Saturday an estimated three to four hundred of them Located the roads around Britain's busiest port Arriving in a fleece of small Bedford lorries And chanting stop the boats and who's street our streets The following evening in Port Smith a fresh mob Tried to physically stop the RNLI bringing rescued people ashore Net East knee They held bricks and stones at police smash wind screens And blocked the coaches meant to take asylum seekers for processing The organising force behind it is the newly minted Patriot platform widely understood to be the work of Daniel Thomas

10:18Beddonone is Danny Tommo and associate of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon Beddonone is Tommy Robinson with a long track record of staring up racist confrontation From harassing asylum seekers in Dumfries To helping wringly the violent Epson protest in April My name's Danny Tommo you saw what we did in Dover And if you don't stop right now I'm calling a thousand men to come to this place Right off the surface. What's your name at first? What's your name? No, no, I'm not going away My name's Danny Danny Tommo, you know what happened in Dover? I was organised, I'm about to be a thousand men to the inches You'll never get him out, so let's talk Danny Tommo, you know what happened in Dover? Patriot platform that was me, yeah, you let him? In Dover no arrests were made so by the authorities logic the protest was peaceful Danny Tommo crowed online that a message was sent Daring us to imagine the next one Kent police called it spontaneous but a hope not hate report blew that apart

11:19Villages warned the police and rang it in One went to counter terrors and police and was told to dial 999 Now hold that against the grannies and the vickers This past year the met police has arrested hundreds of Palestine action supporters Including an 87 year old was walking sticks And an 83 year old reverence to Parfit under the terrorism act For holding a piece of cardboard Yet masked men who blockaded a national port And bricked police walk free So the question today is why is it that a placard gets to a terrorism arrest But a bell parver and a blockade doesn't Alex, police let's talk about them They called it over quote spontaneous But of course we know that Villages and the 999 caller And even the local Tory MP Roger Gale All knew otherwise I think one caller even warned the police that the men Plan to quote attack Muslims and then get sold during 999

12:19What do you make of all of that? Like is the failure of intelligence, the failure of will Okay, so we need to separate out a few strands to this There was definitely an intelligence failure There were several intelligence failures actually First of all because I think something like this would have taken quite a lot of Organizing and it's really bizarre that the police had no clue That this was coming the reports of local people aside The second thing is that reports from local people were ignored And that is I am certain an internal problem Where people don't share information So you know a person takes a call This misses it as a nothing burger Then another person takes a call and the two fail To add up that we are getting a number of calls actually From that area saying the same thing Which should have and would have Flashed a lot of red lights But the spontaneous thing It's worth clarifying that it's just a policing term

13:20That distinguishes what they call an unnotified Gathering as opposed to a notified one So the term spontaneous protest in policing Verbiage simply describes something for which no permission has been sought And there's been no coordination with the local authority and the local police basically And I was among the people who took converge with the term and so she was ridiculous But I looked into it and it's it's just the policing distinction That basically has two types of protests One that has been notified and has the necessary permissions If that makes sense and the ones that don't Quiet, quiet All right everyone welcome to our code rewards orientation I'm Hannah Whoa, is everything okay? That's a code green Someone just earned at least five cents a gallon in rewards Wow Another one Well that one's a code gold The customer just redeemed savings up to a dollar a gallon

14:21Impressive What does that one mean? Oh that's just picky He gets excited when we talk about rewards Savings up to one dollar per gallon redeemable With 20 rewards dollars in your loyalty account A participating locations terms and conditions apply Quiet, quiet Kenny I wondered if you had of you on this because The home office is aware of Danny Tommo Okay, I hope not I have been Ringing that alarm bell for a long time He has turned up at protests that I've been at to try and counter protest He is known to the authorities at the most senior level So do you think this is also a failure of percolation The very top of government down to local policing I think there's what we've got definitely got is A situation where we can say that what intelligence the police did have The way they handled it was a failure I think that's the way I would categorize it So it's not While everything you said Alex is absolutely true about A lot of the intelligence groundwork we'd have expected the police to be doing

15:22There was still intelligence and information coming in And the way that that was handled was was very very poor indeed Why agree I agree and you know I'm not making excuses The intelligence hole in their information network was massive And the top priority right now is to plug that To make absolutely sure that they know where this group are going next And what they're doing next that is like top of the list Yeah, I mean but I think there's also a very important wrinkles Something that stood out for me and this doesn't excuse any intelligence failures But I might explain some of them I mean we've got a lot of background information I suggest that you know the Dover group was really very well organized By the standards of Invertecom was spontaneous demonstrations You know they were legally briefed They appeared to have deliberately stayed just inside the thresholds for arrest as well And you know they were using back channels to do their communication work So actually there's a level of professionalism I used that word you know advisedly Yeah yeah yeah About what's big going on And look it looks like they caught the police in the hall

16:26When somebody like Danny Toml is going to rock up on your patch And you're the police You know that something has to be done about it You know it's going to be a long night and you know that People are going to be called in in their days off It's appealing to backside if you're a serving police officer And they saw people turn up So I think they were outmaneuverting this occasion Oh because they were certainly at numbers Like the local council leader called the police presence extremely low And that the protesters were well organized You've had Tory and Labour politicians locally saying the same So I think when you've got cross party local figures All telling you the coordination was literally visible from their front windows Then we didn't know Doesn't pass the credibility test for the police And you know I do think it's an intelligence failure And what's interesting is that having found themselves in that position Being outnumbered five to one And at times even more than that

17:27I think they did exceptionally well to actually Disperse the people who were there within a very short amount of time With no escalation Although my emotion wanted all of them I rest Lock them up yeah But I think if they had gone into a situation where they're outnumbered Five to one and started arresting these people It could have been an absolute shitshow Having found themselves the front line people having been essentially failed By the people higher up who should have been doing their job and paying attention I think did very well Now the other side is that I think there's been a tendency For more than probably a decade and a half if not two decades To not pay attention to far right radicalization And organizations that are capable of causing trouble It's seen as a political problem And the police sort of don't want to get involved In the same way that as you pointed out

18:28Name the over policing of progressive protests Is also a result of what is seen as a political decision And so you end up in this weird situation Where the police will arrest the granny with a placard Because they know that the granny with a placard will come peacefully And they know that it's not a situation that will escalate and spin out of control But they will not arrest the masked thug Because that person might not come peacefully And that situation might escalate So effectively you end up rewarding them for their bad behavior I agree and it really reminded me of the Pat C. Stephenson image Where she's pinned to the ground At the vigil for Sarah Everard murdered of course by serving Police officer Because I think it's about the visual politics of who gets arrested And policing runs on the belief right that the rules are the same for everyone

19:28And the moment the public sees And consent right Exactly of course And the moment the public sees 87 year olds being handcuffed for holding a placard Or a woman at a vigil being pinned to the ground But hundreds of masked men walking through Dover untouched The story very quickly becomes the police are harsh on the peaceful And back away from the aggressive And as you quite rightly said Alex It is telling peaceful protesters their restraint is for suckers And intimidation works Just in terms of the challenges that the police on the front line make I think the point that you made Alex about differentiating between The police as a system And the coppers are a stuck at the front line trying to pick up the pieces It's absolutely valid and a very important point to make There is a legal distinction here I think that we should highlight as well And this is something that the police on the front line have to bear in mind There is a legal explanation as to why Palestine action protesters Where arrested, Palestine action is prescribed There's a clear legal issue there

20:29So in some circumstances the words on your placard themselves constitute a suspected offense All right, with a public order protest Police have to identify particular conduct and offenders Now what happened in Dover was not unnotified Or notifiable I think we ought to be careful with the legal terminology Event So the police hadn't for example used the powers that they do have Which is to ban people wearing masks At public gatherings These laws exist But in terms of the The visuals of the optics of Pensioners and clergy being lifted At Palestine action protests versus the mass guys getting off with Not murder, but getting off Of what they were doing in Dover Leakily actually there are reasons and these are reasons that the men and women on the front line We're in a checkered caps Have to take account of Alex, does it just optics or is it also words because The chem police logs the Dover incident as peaceful Quotes because that's what I want to prove with you because we had 300 mask men blocking

21:32The country's busiest ferry port and shutting this hand down You can call that many things but I don't think the word peaceful Can be attributed to that So You know why do you think chem police chose to characterize it like that after the event like I'm not sure what the system behind this but I imagine someone is on a computer terminal and You know there's a thing that goes was anyone arrested Therefore you put the tick in the box that says peaceful again. I think it's just Semantic rather than a real distinction But I agree that the signal it gives outward is awful So what the government need to do is react with the political will to prescribe this group Yeah, I mean other ways it's quite circular isn't it no action so no crime gets recorded There's your answer but again, I have to say that The abandon that they do that on Sunday night because there's this thing going on in portals Again, I'm not sure what the security advice they're receiving in the background is

22:32And the security advice they're receiving in the background might well be Please don't advertise this latest punch up on a Sunday evening when the football has just finished and everyone is pissed And there may be thousands of people looking to get involved in a face off that's about immigration Please just let it let the wind out of it rather than coming make some Strigant statements that effectively sets up the the status the antagonist that these people crave I mean these are hard hard hard judgments, but the net result is that you end up in a situation where because I think these groups are so well organized They take advantage of our adherence the rule of law our tolerance our legislation our due process to take the pace that's the net effect Quiet

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24:39Start your business today with the industry's best business partner Shopify and start hearing Sign up for your one dollar per month trial today at shopify.com slash realm go to shopify.com slash realm That's shopify.com slash realm Let's compare and contrast with the summer of riots in 2024 where similarly a labor Prime Minister had only just taken office and We talked at the time about how effective summers 2024 response was it was built around Very visible rapid consequence a surge of public order policing you had I think well over a thousand arrests Court sitting overnight and through the weekends to hand down very swished custodial sentences and telling me burnum's own Dover MP mic tap has publicly been calling on him to convene a cobra meeting

25:43So does that imply the kind of top level emergency response hasn't yet kicked in in the way it visibly did in 2024 Or is it that the intelligence might be saying no this really is quite a different beast of a at the time It worked really well, and I was actually quite proud of what a hard line. Yeah the government took on that We were all really impressed But I'm not sure if it worked long term. I'm not sure if Parading these people as martyrs whether that confrontation didn't feed into Effectively reform ending up on 31% six months later. I can't tell you that definitively Every decision has upsides and downsides and sometimes their second and third order effects Might mean that the thing that looks like the right way to deal with something in the moment is the wrong long term strategy For dealing with it and I and I don't know how to answer that question. I'm jinging you don't I think

26:46We just have to take a step back take a breath and deal with it in quite a legalistic way Just go to parliament Labor has a massive majority and again. They're not using it well enough in circumstances like these They could prescribe Patriot platform which sounds like the worst dating service They could like prescribe it tonight. So do that the only way to react is to say that the law applies to everyone And if you think there is a gap in the law that you can exploit We're going to close it and if you try to exploit a different gap will close that so it is a game of whack-a-mole But you have to keep your cool and avoid maybe gratifying yourself emotionally by saying the thing you really want to say which is these people are fucking fascists And saying the thing that takes the wind out of their sale There's always a problem with prescribing organizations like this and of course is that that is that you you feel the fire

27:47You encourage more people to join them. There is that that anger However, there are other tools that are available You know, it's within I believe the government and the police's Authority to be able to say look we're going to designate over the port of Dover as an area where No masks shall be worn You know and certainly in the event that there's any sort of disruption or demonstration there Here's the baseline. So in other words remove the power that anonymity brings on the terror that anonymity brings as well without necessarily Creating martyrs of the I would entire organization I also having watched quite a lot of the footage self-shot by the demonstrators themselves approaches the fascists the thugs whatever we want to call them I'd be very surprised if They didn't search and vast amounts of cocaine were not found in that possession And Kenny one of the callers we now know warned the police that these men planned to quote attack Muslims

28:48This is intelligence because people overheard conversations that the group were having in a pub where they were convening to plan What they were going to do that caller then basically gets shrunk off by the police. So Would a different target or different Politics do you think have had the same reaction if they'd said or they're planning to attack Jews or there And planning to attack women or whatever do you think there could be some kind of institutional racism Even very much unconsciously amongst call handlers or do we just not know enough? I think we should caveat everything that we're speaking about today's show by We don't go enough we're not plugged into those levels of communication behind the scenes Having said that again from a comms perspective If you've got a nice easy identifiable headline friendly target That doesn't just work for the media that sets alarm bells ringing in all organizations as well So I think it's hard to imagine that there wouldn't have been a greater sense of urgency perhaps

29:52But you know bringing in additional support at the last minute I don't know if it was a more headline friendly set of victims This is this is a trouble the uncomfortable truth is that the brown people coming across the channeling dinghies I'm not same as worthy of the same amount of protection As Jewish people most people women any other group in this country I think that holds a mirror up to the country as a whole And so I'm trading quite carefully Yeah, because the point you make I think is a very valid point It's a legitimate concern but I know Oh yes that phrase The problem is there is a bleed effect because the next night in portals There was a group of people that gathered on intelligence if you can use that word That there was a group of asylum seekers in a particular hotel And it turned out that it was a Pakistani cricket team Starting a tour of games that they were doing But all they saw was a couple of coaches arriving and you know young brown men coming off them

30:55And so they challenged the hotel manager and the captain of the cricket team came out and talked to their reform counselor from that area and the reform counselor went and assured the other people that no no These are not refugees and stood them down and it's like why the hell should a group of people purely by virtue of their color have to justify themselves to some local vigilante militia Yeah, why the hell a group of young men on a sporting tour have to justify themselves to the self-appointed thugs And so while I accept what you're saying about the asylum seekers Kenny The point is the only way they have identifying them is by think of how they look And I thought one of the most unsettling things about the right up of that cricket team story Is the council are quoted throughout who is portraying himself as having been the voice of reason

31:57Yeah, the more the protesters to go home is actually saying he turned up and demanded that the hotel manager show him proof That they get that they were genuine guests and not asylum seekers So I'd ask him are you saying that if they had turned out to be refugees you'd have turned around to the mob and said fair enough lads off you go And the answer is yes, that's absolutely what's implied But I do think that actually having given them a bit of rope they have gone too far because then From a sense of impunity that may be flowed from the dover incident in ports with they ended up injuring a couple of policemen and destroying property putting a brick through a police car window And the next day they ended up targeting our in a live volunteers and doxed one of them Published his address in their telegram group and I do think that is an absolutely solid basis on which burn them can come out and say no Well, let's talk about how reform came out because we had Richard Tyson

33:01Calling the dover crowd and intimidating militia But then reform pivot to saying oh, no, we've got to talk about solidarity with these people who have Digitimate concerns by Sunday So on Saturday you have mask men shutting a port Looking ugly and tight-scalling them at this intimidating militia and by the port smith protest the day later His colleague braverman was sharing sympathetic videos and Tyson begun to draw this neat line You know dover was the militia, but port smith was a genuine very frustrated group of people Conveniently because fear is them more masks. So was it the behavior that changed or the realization that the angle is actually quite popular with their base and the party didn't want to be Court on the wrong side of it. What do you think this kind of pretzling By Tyson and then braverman says about where reformer out on all of this end for us You're about dover today. This is being barricaded by hundreds of masked individuals. What do you make of that? What's going on? Disgusted

34:04At nobody in any political protest whether they're on the left or the right should appear in balaclavas It is wrong the sinister and worrying for people that it's horrible This families in cars on the way to the end for ready to get some get on hold day and they see all this happening around them Disgusting Disgusting and I look nobody thought was more strongly about stopping the boats than me But turning up in balaclavas is not the way to do What I saw happening over the weekend was essentially Reform trying to have a respectable relationship of some sort with its own political exhaust fumes You know, this is what they were doing They put the environment in which we all try to have a debate We pop a anger They know what they're doing and then when the pollution happens they've got to find a way through the fog that they themselves have created And what I could see with reform was Was a group of people saying to the protestist you know that we share you diagnosis and we share your anger and we share quite a lot of your Language but for the love of God please stop dressing up like the provisional win with sports direct

35:07Deep things seriously people The thing is if you spend 10 years telling people that there's an existential threat coming across the channel on dinghies And then some people start to behave as if there's actually an existential threat coming across the channel and dinghies You shouldn't be surprised when things turn ugly as they were always going to do Why All right class settle down today's lesson is on the arco rewards app try to stay with me The fundamentals are simple earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards then redeem them later for up to a dollar off every gallon Now here's where it gets complicated Oh wait it doesn't it's as simple as downloading the arco rewards app to get started Class dismissed The savings of up to one dollar for y'all and redeemable a 20 rewards dollars in your law of the account at participating locations terms and conditions apply I'm serena Williams and I'm healthier on row I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP ones diet and exercise on row

36:08You can access GLP one options including the first FDA approved GLP one pill for weight loss go to row.co Slash journey to see if you qualify 14 to 20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2% to 3.1% in placebo are rx only to stay informed about serious side effects go to row.co slash safety Quiet Alex Sweller-Braviman never once hope back I said that you know her constituents are not far right races. They're just terrified and furious I just wonder where you think that line is between representing genuine anxiety from the community you serve And actually becoming a kind of front for a masked mob. I don't think I can give someone like zelabraviman any Goodwill in terms of reflecting Anxiety from her constituency because she acts

37:08Consistently and has done for many many years to increase that anxiety. So She's not bothered about the anxiety. She likes the anxiety. She fuels the anxiety. So Let's not credit this bullshit with any kind of real basis because what she's doing is legitimizing the behavior You can have a feeling you can feel worried you can feel terrified you can feel furious But that does not mean you can't behave like a thug without consequence Her view is oh no no no, they're just they're they're so anxious You can't be angry at them for reacting because I think there is a genuine practical difference Which is why they're signaling differently for the two events Because the first one actually inconvenienced a lot of nice middle class people going to France for other holidays or coming back or whatever And there was no Visible enemy as it were While the other one had an actual boat at the other end of it

38:10So they see it as a kind of defense of the land as a sort of citizen's arrest And so I think there is a genuine difference in their head between people in convenencing large amounts of the public Which will lose them votes and people feeding into this anxiety that there's an invasion Which adds votes to their tally But I also think it reflects the fact that reform decay is not a professional outfit and it's fracturing at the moment Just before we recording news broke that there's now a police investigation into what we saw from channel for the other day Surprise surprise Kenny as we discussed on Sunday the police have asked for the ad redacted footage From the documentary so you know, it's that unbleaped list that they will be sweating about of donors And so there are people genuinely free-lancing within reform at the moment They're free-lancing and security guards as well because there's now a police investigation into the people that attack the protesters

39:12At the conference at the weekend You know hitting them with their crutches and pulling their hair This fracture and going on at the moment Most visible with the use of Nigel Farage called deraute as disgusting knuckle draggers Zia Yusuf went down to Portrait with the next day with a chief agitator Daniel Thomas Made him a director offer of a pact on camera What happened in Dover on Saturday, okay? There was no violence. We were very straight and very clear to the police. We had lawyers on the phones All the lawyers were on the phones and we made sure they spoke to the senior police officers What Nigel Farage has done is not good when the you call people disgusting Yeah, smashed up some police vehicles. No, that was nothing to do with us. That was a that was probably done by the lefties to try and make us look bad The working class do not vote. We are building a voting block What we're doing right now is creating an infrastructure of men not for violence not to commit crimes But to create a voting block to in 12 in 18 months time we convert

40:17Into a voting block and that voting block will go to the most suitable candidate And to the most suitable party There is able to bring this country back into order The whole thing apparently was spontaneous. It was as spontaneous as the protest in Dover, I suspect There's no way use of security lets this man through So I think it was all arranged and then on the back of that Zia Yusuf releases some I don't know if you've seen it some Inspirational video about his life story that Jengindy looks like a leadership bit. Yeah, absolutely I know people are saying they will never do that because they will be nothing without Nigel Farage But the conservative party getting rid of Johnson would hurt them electrically. They still did it The fuel of that kind of regicide is not logic. It is ambition And and so you've got all these ambitious people that I refrain if I don't do it if I don't position myself

41:18To be in line to inherit the throne then Robert Jenwick will do it And if Robert Jenwick doesn't do it then so a labyrinth will do it So all of them are moving in a concerted way and circling Julius Caesar sort of happening in real time. I think there's at least three core problems that Farage And broader the reform organization faced at the moment first, but obviously is myth message discipline Let's call it so you know the difference to Farage using the term knuckle draggers and then Yusuf engaging directly with the organizers There's no cord and sanitaire there that that wasn't exploratory meeting. We'll get about it So that that's part one and that that shows As is often the case with communications you see a communications issue message disciplines broken down It's not actually a comms issue. It's a symptom of something that's problematic father of the food chain Secondly, I think there's a big question about who as we move forward is going to own the anti-integration right in general Patriot platforms effectively saying look we've got activists and that means we've got potentially

42:22Votes reformers got electoral credibility So does competition being created there as well as Potential cooperation with with Yusuf and in thirdly of course there's the personal element and it's Farage's Strategic dilemma and we saw him Really stuck on the horns of dilemma of a dilemma in the last few days He needs to look respectably enough to win over more conventional voters while retaining people whose politics are much much harder edge and what what he's saying is of course what you know Labor have had to learn over the last two years the hard way that the far right are an insatiable beast whether you are the conservatives who have become much more right wing when it comes to social issues over the last decade Losing to reform reform losing to restore and frankly Tommy Robinson losing the headlines to Danny Tomo if you try and give them what they want

43:23They don't thank you for it. They just Shiffer that and want even more and the demands escalate and Danny Tomo has already boasted that a message was sent and is teasing a bigger one So for those of us on the other side of the debate what what are the lessons that we need to learn both in terms of not Amplifying him as an individual yet covering the seriousness of the issue And then more broadly for a government that is clearly quite effectively now consolidating It's progressive base again underneath it as the polling shows And resisting that temptation to give an inch on moving this over to a window even further to the right all the time When the right of really doing a very good job of that in between themselves Yeah, I think it just has to be clarity and consistency Because I will hold my hands up I lack clarity in consistency in this internally. I think about it a lot And I've been thinking about the last three days and I have asked myself what is it? I want do I want

44:26Everyone to be allowed to protest including the people in Dover and the people supporting Palestine action Do I want a very hardline crackdown on everyone or am I saying that the people with whom I agree should be given A slightly looser license that the people with whom I disagree I recognize that that's a complicated judgment inside me I can find a lot of excuses. I can find a lot of examples where I think You know the police overreached in one case and underreached in another But I think we have to reach a position that is clear and consistent and really live it Not make exception for people with whom we agree not make exceptions for people with whom we disagree If you went to a situation where you banned face coverings for instance might that backfire on women who wear face coverings for religious reasons might it be weaponized If you arrested Danny Tomo right now might that boost Tommy Robinson

45:31If Tommy Robinson holds another unite the kingdom march right now It will be even worse attended than the last one was if you arrest Danny Tomo He's gonna hold a free Tomo march that will be attended by I think twice as many people It's a really hard line to walk Between having really firm boundaries. I mean it's almost like parenting isn't it because these people are actually Having quite juvenile emotional reactions to the situation the phone is something they have a kind of arrested development And I think you have to put very firm boundaries but not get emotionally involved sort of not show your anger It's a hard one Debated this in the west since pushed second world war You know carol poppers paradox of tolerance Just the idea that society has to limit tolerance towards and tolerant groups Otherwise a free and open way of life will be stuffed out and we've seen the evidence There are lessons to be learned you know about how we cover some delatoma without advertising

46:32Dover is demonstrated that you don't have to have a march with 100,000 people to get headlines A few hundred mass men can get the headlines and can shut down critical infrastructure So there's a proof of concept there that we have to be very very careful of which means that When we look at this Trying to put the emotions to once that which is very difficult that there are ways that the media can look at this in a much more sterile Where you come to the organization? Exactly that I will come back to that in a second But I mean for organ for for podcasts like ourselves for commentators for talking heads You look at the organization look at the financing you look at things like the criminal histories of those involved You look at the consequences you go into specifics and try to pull back For the overbearing emotion which really floods You know for floods everything I think on that analysis with with the legitimate concerns point It is legitimate to have a concern About your ability to afford the same things used to be able to afford Whether that is your rent your mortgage your weekly shop

47:36It is completely legitimate to have concerns about the fact that your wage has not kept pace with inflation That you cannot now get the surgery that you desperately need because the way thing this is so long etc etc And begin then to talk about why Immigrants and certainly asylum seekers are not the reason that has caused any of those problems In the way that the the right do the short hand on you both Touched on it. I want to delve into it more Alex Dare I ask what was the The Murdoch press and the telegraph and others reaction to what happened over the weekend I just want to talk about that one photo That both the times and the telegraph published although as I understand it the telegraph Ditched it from its second edition put instead the photo of a buffing in its place Describe the photo in a bit of detail for those that may have been fortunate enough to miss it It's basically three young women made up to the nines with a table full of tinnies

48:40Taking a selfie of themselves and in the in the background is a crowd of at least 50 of these Teenage mutant ninja Nazis in full Balaklava's sort of given The thumbs up except one of them who is doing a sort of zikhal salute looks a bit musky doesn't it both newspapers Published it without any reference to the fact that this was put up on a Patriot local patriot platform group By these women the telegraph went so far as to describe them as Unconnected to the men Quotes them are saying that right now. This is the safest carriage to be on in the UK And even include a kind of I don't know a pun about racism like yeah I was a pull of the segment was race for the train And I just I look at that and I think what the fuck are you doing on which planet is it okay

49:45For two former newspapers of record to publish a group of paramilitaries in Balaklava's And glorify them as somehow protectors of the country particularly when what we know of their predecessors, shall we Call them from the the summer of 24 riots and plenty of people that have turned up at the United Kingdom rallies very significant chunk of them have previous or violence against women domestic violence domestic abuse etc So you know and so we will be interested on a fantastic article in the Guardian on at this week Will Sheryl and Kim the show notes But you know these are people who will write that office while that's just ads being ads. Yeah, I'll tell you what if those three girls Where of Pakistani heritage that wouldn't be the safest carriage in England for them to be in and I find it a Stounding that the times and the telegraph just don't have enough

50:45intellectual rigor To think through the consequences of what they're doing and just instead publish this Drivel that is the superficial 2026 equivalent of hurrah for the black shirts Now we should say that today Wednesday at the 9th of September For the very first time in count them 21 months Reform UK are not ahead in a single poll Daniel Trilling I think has put forward an interesting thesis that actually if you look at reforms poll positions Say a year ago the hotel rides in the previous to summers the United Kingdom march the first one Then the second one then this kind of disturbance What you see is decline rather than momentum What you see is a kind of desperation to be relevant at the time when Maybe the government's message that they are actually quietly dealing with this issue is filtering through what do you think?

51:47I think Trilling is basically right on the numbers, you know within the last couple of years Yeah, actually Lenin Tommy Robinson had a very very big far right rally In London and Farah should look like he was almost certainly APM in waiting if not With an outright majority in coalition with the Conservatives and now the follow-up rallies as you mentioned earlier have halved In terms of the numbers of ash turning out for them and reform has lost its poll lead Since Burnham took over and had been a big way in the run up to it And Farah is underwater on nearly every measure not least of course the multiple investigations into him his party And his party members now With the criminal investigation happening following the conference. So a few hundred masked men at a port is a downgrade From a hundred thousand in Whitehall And I suppose My kind of hesitation is that shrinking isn't the same as

52:48You know breathe a sigh of relief It's all gonna be all right. I think what's left is smaller but harder and angrier Um and what are organized and what are right exactly and street violence often follows Electrofalia rather than Success and you know, we're gonna be talking about it on Friday and in the quiet right beside episode The AFD have just taken 44% in Germany So I'm worried that a far right is fading A narrative is very much this month only and very much a British claim But you know, he is right. It is a trough not a peak But I just don't want us to mistake a dip for their defeat Hmm, and the result of the possibility that what we're seeing is fragmentation so we're not actually saying and overall So that sort of drifting of Support for vaguely extreme right wing views, but what we're saying is Potentially a big fragmentation of that we've got reform here. We've got the store there

53:48We've got robins and somewhere else. We've got Patriot platform trying to build a street operation and all competing for the same Political market was the overall picture may well be that The issue on the right of politics remains, but you know, so perhaps you shouldn't ask what it over proves that a far right is advancing I think it's quite an interesting possibility that actually what it looks like is What retreat looks like when the people are doing the retreat don't intend to go quietly And actually this morning at the Yugov event I mentioned earlier there was a very interesting bit of Analysis about what issues they think Andy Burnham will handle well You know, he scores incredibly well with all voters on they think you will handle social care well Second is they think he's gonna handle Britain's relationship with the you well that then gets for no vote transport and how is that? That's what they was gonna say transport has yeah Of course, but but and here's the point. I think Kenny is making Almost a third of all voters

54:50Think he won't handle anything well Who that's your third that's that's the people Who might not all be showing up in the same column on their voting intention They're not all now stuck behind Farage in the way that he'd he'd managed to get quite a lot of them in the sort of you know High 20s a couple of months ago But there are a third of people out there that really are not going to give This government or any shade of progressive voter Progressive party they're backing. I think all of these things are truly simultaneously of course It's a lull it's a fragmentation. It's in in a sense a retooling a sort of pivot to darker and more violent ways of intimidating people I think it's also Probably the best sign we have that reform is in trouble That this group is bold enough to come out and say if you don't switch to

55:51More far right stuff that we like will go to Rupert That's what he was saying right. Let's be plain about it He was saying I've got a block of votes and right now you're not getting any from the moderate side that you thought you were gonna get loads So if you want to survive you need me and that comes with all kinds of risks for a party like reform of course So we will see what's our call to action? Nemi Well, first up you've got to go and support hope not hate They really really do The lords work on all of this whether that's infiltrating far right groups exposing them briefing the home office and You know counter counter terrorism groups within government they do phenomenally dangerous and brilliant work We'll leave a link in the show notes And if you missed it on Wednesday night do go and check out channel for dispatches They've aired a year long investigation Into Tommy Robinson's finances again link in the show notes about which Tommy Robinson is not very happy is

56:58You are You are in relevant We are going to declare declaration of war on you and your media because you're Whatever you doing this documentary to make me look bad wherever you do I'm gonna go on to fabulous things. I have the support of the public the public Hope you all of them My plan is for the future and of course a Revenue should be Most of us say that you can be Quiet Quiet And that's a wrap on this week's main show. We hope you enjoyed it and don't forget you've got just one more day to sign up at keo dash f i dot com slash quiet right pod for a five or a month or more in time to be invited to our Sunday evening online editorial Yes, that's right. We're going to be huddling with our fantastic supporters from five to six pm this Sunday Which is the 13th of September to plan our content over the coming months be there or be somewhere much less fun

58:01And don't forget to come back tomorrow morning for our latest b-side episode with unneted deterred as we interrogate the rise of the AFD in Saxony we love you more than name. We love sneaking naughty words up my back We love you more than name. We love seeking naughty words into my script Hi Quiet Quiet Quiet riots and order production from kula heads written produced by Alex andro name is Smith and Kenny Campbell music by Marianna Sangeeta artwork by Semona Canelo and edited by me Alex Reese Quiet Ha ha ha Can I hear much air squeaking by the way? Yeah, there's quite a lot of background and it sounded like a door closing I'll give you a second Kenny's back door That's enough settle down you too

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