FL274 - We help Melissa take her writing business to the next level

In today's episode, we help Melissa take her writing business to the next level.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jocelyn Sams: Hey y'all. On today's podcast, we help Melissa take her writing business to the next level.

Shane Sams: Welcome to The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast, where life always comes before work. We're your hosts, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We're a real family that figured out how to make our entire living online. Now, we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? All right, let's get started.

Shane Sams: What's going on everybody? Welcome back to The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast. It is great to be back with you again today. Super excited to be helping another one of our amazing Flip Your Life community members take their business and their life to the next level. We are super excited today to welcome Melissa Webb to the show. Melissa, welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Webb: Well, thank you so much you guys. I am so excited. This is such a big deal for me, and I can't thank you enough for having me on.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. I have been, seriously, waiting for this podcast for weeks, because I have an amazing story to tell about Melissa. We actually have not met Melissa in real life just yet, but she did sign up for one of our coaching calls. We do a limited amount of one-on-one coaching, and Melissa had signed up to talk to me.

Jocelyn Sams: This is kind of interesting because I do a lot of calls in the evening because my kid is doing gymnastics and it's in another town, and it really isn't a long enough amount of time for me to drive all the way home, so I sit in a parking lot while I wait for her.

Shane Sams: Oh my gosh. This story's amazing. I forgot about this. Oh, guys, buckle up. This is the best story ever.

Jocelyn Sams: This is actually my first evening call that I had done since we started doing the one-on-one calls. I thought, "Hey, I'm going to have something to do while I'm sitting here waiting. This is not the worst thing, make a little money and hang out and talk to somebody in our community." Like, "Pretty good night."

Shane Sams: She does it in a parking lot because in this little, small Southeast Kentucky town, literally, the only place you can get enough Internet to make a call is in the Walmart parking lot, so that's why she's sitting in a parking lot making this call.

Jocelyn Sams: This is pretty much as like Podunk, small town as it gets, okay?

Shane Sams: I love it! You said, "Podunk."

Jocelyn Sams: This is, okay, I just want to like also say that this is not even a Super Walmart, okay? This is like a-

Shane Sams: It's an old school Walmart-

Jocelyn Sams: Old school.

Shane Sams: It's like 1987 Walmart is what we're talking about here.

Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Okay, so I'm sitting in the parking lot and I just connected up to Melissa, who's in California, right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Jocelyn Sams: Okay. I just connected up to her in California. I go to the parking lot and I find a place to go, which is underneath a big light pole, so I think, "This is fine." Let me just say also that I have sat in this parking lot, literally, like hundreds of times, completely uneventful.

Jocelyn Sams: I go and I connect up on this call to Melissa. I park in the middle of the parking lot under a big light pole. We had, seriously, been on the call maybe about 60 seconds when this, as I call it, van full of rednecks pulls up beside me. When I say beside me, I mean like within probably 50 feet. Not even that. I'd say about 20 feet from me.

Jocelyn Sams: Not only was it a van full of rednecks, they have the doors, like the side doors are all open. They are yelling at someone in a pickup truck across the parking lot, and not only are they yelling at them, this crazy woman gets out with a baseball bat, a baseball bat. You cannot make this up, and starts waving it at this man in the parking lot.

Shane Sams: A fight breaks out in a Walmart parking lot, led by a crazy woman with a baseball bat and it's a van full of rednecks versus a pickup truck.

Jocelyn Sams: I could nearly, I could almost reach out and touch them. I'm on this call, that someone has paid for, Melissa has paid for, and I'm like, "Uh ..." I don't even know what to say. Because I'm just like, when on earth are you in this situation? It's not like anything has prepared you for this situation.

Shane Sams: Yeah. Has anyone else ever had to ... You had to move your car. You had to move it.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so I'm like, "Uh, okay. I know this sounds really weird, but like there's these people beside me ..."

Shane Sams: There's a street fight breaking out next to me, Melissa, and I got to go to the other end of the Walmart parking lot. At this point, Melissa's probably like, "Maybe I signed up for the wrong first step."

Jocelyn Sams: No, listen. She was like so nice to me. She's like, "I just want you to be safe."

Shane Sams: Melissa, what were you thinking when Jocelyn was like, "Hey, look a street fight just broke out between this woman with a baseball bat and a dude in a pickup truck, so could you give me five minutes-"

Melissa Webb: Oh my gosh.

Shane Sams: ... "and start the call?" Like what were you thinking at this point right now?

Melissa Webb: I was thinking like, "Okay, I could totally write a story here."

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.

Shane Sams: You couldn't make it up, because nobody could imagine something like that happening.

Jocelyn Sams: No, you can't make this stuff up.

Melissa Webb: Totally, so from my perspective, it was fantastic. Like I have told this story so many times because on my end, so here I was, I put down a good chunk of change to like have some valuable time, one-on-one with Jocelyn, and so she was right. Like 60 seconds in, she's asking me some questions, I'm giving her some feedback and then she's like, "Um, hang on just a second. There is a person wielding a bat next to me."

Shane Sams: Wielding a bat. This is-

Melissa Webb: I'm like, "Jocelyn, just call me back." Like, "Drop the phone, go. Go be safe." Like, "Go take care of yourself." She's like, "No, hang on just a second," and like I hear the phone like fly out of her hand, like probably into the passenger seat. The car's moving.

Shane Sams: Oh my god.

Melissa Webb: I'm just like on the line, like hanging on. Like, "Is she okay? What's going on?" All of a sudden, like I don't know, seconds go past and she comes back on, totally collected herself. She's like, "Okay, that was interesting, so that's what we were talking about."

Shane Sams: Task switching at its finest right there.

Jocelyn Sams: Oh my goodness, so-

Shane Sams: She's also simultaneously texting a friend of hers-

Jocelyn Sams: Yes.

Shane Sams: ... to dial 911 to call the police because there's a fight breaking out in Walmart's parking lot.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, because I'm on this call and I've already been like, "Hold on just a minute." I don't want to be like, "Hold on, let me call the cops."

Jocelyn Sams: Being the like ever-present professional that I am, I get on my computer and I typed to my friend on text, because her uncle is like the Police Chief of this town. I'm like, "Can you please call the police and tell them to come?" The police do come. They talked to the people. No one was arrested because, I guess, no like physical ...

Shane Sams: She didn't swing her bat.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.

Shane Sams: Apparently, so no.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and they're like, this whole thing, they're like yelling profanity. I mean, this was like, you cannot make this up. I mean, you just can't.

Melissa Webb: No.

Shane Sams: The moral of the story is if you want to be on the most entertaining coaching calls in the history of the world, be a part of The Flip Your Life community and you might grab one of these street fight calls with me and Jocelyn. You know what I mean? Like-

Melissa Webb: Oh my gosh. It was awesome.

Shane Sams: She sent me a message-

Melissa Webb: I was awesome.

Shane Sams: She sent me a message-

Melissa Webb: It was awesome because it all ended well.

Shane Sams: Yeah, no doubt. Nobody hit the ... Broke our windshield with a baseball bat to prove they could swing it. Like, the funny thing was that Jocelyn also text me. She sent me this weird text.

Shane Sams: It was like, "Talking to Melissa. Just called the police on a big woman with baseball bat." I'm like, "What?" Like, how ... I didn't even know what she was talking about, so I didn't hear this story 'til later, and oh my gosh. I laughed for hours and hours and hours about that call, so ...

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so there's never a dull moment.

Shane Sams: We decided to bring you on the podcast for surviving the street fight at Walmart.

Jocelyn Sams: Well, I just wanted to say that I did over-deliver for this call. We talked for a really long time because I felt really bad about this.

Melissa Webb: It was the half hour session and she gave me a full hour.

Shane Sams: Oh, I love it.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.

Shane Sams: See, that's how you-

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. It all turned out okay. We talked through some stuff. I think that we had a good ending, and you've actually had some successes since, so I can't wait to dive into that. Let's kind of bring this thing back around a little bit. Tell everybody a little bit about you and like your background and what you're doing online.

Melissa Webb: Oh, absolutely. I do have to say I'm very happy to know that you're recording this in the safety of your own home.

Shane Sams: Right, exactly.

Melissa Webb: Okay, so yes. A little bit about me. As anybody might see on my Instagram profile, I am a bold believer and I am a very happy wife of pretty much the world's must supportive husband. I hear people talk about not having that. I'm so grateful I have that. I am a loving mom of three spectacular boys. Our youngest is now 15 years old.

Melissa Webb: I am a very passionate teacher, especially when it comes to writing. I will geek out over course standards and things of that nature. I am the creator and owner of WriteOnWebb.com. I am a huge fan of home schooling moms everywhere, they are the unsung heroes. Jocelyn, you are joining those ranks, girl. In the spring of 2019, I'm also going to be a published children's book author, super excited for that. As of January 11th, 2019, I will be unemployed.

Jocelyn Sams: Wow.

Shane Sams: That's crazy. Because that's happening in like what? Three weeks? Is that what-

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: Yes, wow. Now, are you unemployed or unemployable? There's a difference there, you see what I mean?

Melissa Webb: Oh, good.

Shane Sams: Unemployable is like, "I'm going to go make my own money and not work for anyone else." That's like what unemployable is, correct?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: My mom and ... Jocelyn's grandfather, I tell this story all the time. When we quit our jobs ... Like he's an old guy, worked in the coal mines. Didn't really get it, what we were doing. Right?

Melissa Webb: Yeah.

Shane Sams: One time, we went home and he reached over and slipped me a 20 in a handshake and he pat me on the shoulder and he goes, "I know you're not working now, son, so there's a little gas money to get home." I'm like-

Jocelyn Sams: Which was so sweet.

Shane Sams: It was so sweet, I was like, "Do I want to break this guy's heart?"

Melissa Webb: So sweet.

Shane Sams: ... Or just be like, "Thanks, papa," you know what I mean? Like I just took the money. He didn't realize I was unemployable, not unemployed. Does that make sense?

Melissa Webb: I love it.

Shane Sams: Awesome.

Melissa Webb: I love it. It was by my choice, in fact. I've been a teacher for 26 years and I have worked for an amazing charter school, Julian Charter School in San Diego area, and love it. I'm happy to be leaving on excellent terms.

Shane Sams: Awesome.

Melissa Webb: I'm actually kind of switching hats. I want to be a vendor of theirs, so I can still support their home schooling families in the area of writing. It's all good, it's just I kind of feel like I want to throw up and jump for joy at the same time.

Shane Sams: For sure. It's a big change.

Jocelyn Sams: Yes.

Shane Sams: Any big change like that is going to be, not disruptive, but just like riding a new wave. Right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: It's going to be scary to go out and do something different. Does your online business, this Write On Webb, it's supporting home school co-ops and home school teachers for writing, or is it bigger than that? Like what's ... Or is it a bigger, broader scope than that? Like what exactly is Write On Webb?

Melissa Webb: I directly work with home schooling moms, who want to teach excellent writing but they're, honestly, they're overwhelmed. With the whole Common Core and course standards, all students are supposed to understand the difference between persuasive and expository and narrative and then understand what descriptive is, and then all of the subcategories under that. It's a lot.

Melissa Webb: It's what I love to teach, and so I actually am happy to teach it, so that they can take something off their plate. They know that everything I put out for them ... I use Teachable to house all of my lessons, so I have all the videos are embedded in that. I think the biggest difference that people love about what I'm doing is that I create a community of these young writers in grades three through eight.

Shane Sams: Got you.

Melissa Webb: They love that. Like the kids, like I have a joke of the week every week. It's a Q&A time and we go live. It's the one thing that in a home school environment, if a family is not using co-op for things like that, then who's their audience?

Melissa Webb: The child needs an audience and as great as mom is, that's a tough one. You need other children to be around and you get that in a traditional class, but when you're home schooled, it's like that missing piece, and I provide that and have so much fun doing it.

Shane Sams: That's awesome. We just started home schooling about two weeks ago.

Melissa Webb: I know. I'm so excited for you.

Shane Sams: It's been really, really good but really, really challenging. Not hard. Like there's nothing been hard about like ... Like hard is laying bricks or building a ... You know what I mean?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: It has been ... You got to be more intentional. You really got to control your schedule. There is a lot more responsibility feeling to it, right?

Melissa Webb: Oh, yes.

Shane Sams: You know what I'm saying? Writing was one of the things Jocelyn was worried about. Like getting that writing experience. Like we live in a small area.

Shane Sams: There are some people working together, but it's not like in a bigger city or like a San Diego where you're going to have these co-ops, you're going to have these schools, you're going to have all these resources, so we've definitely turned toward these virtual type things for different subjects, like what you're doing.

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: There's millions of kids being home schooled. Like people don't realize how many people are actually being home schooled out there. You know?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: This would even be good ... This is like, this could even be supplemental to kids who are struggling with writing in regular school though too, right?

Melissa Webb: Absolutely. I've actually started from my monthly live courses, I've created stand-alone versions so that people can do just that. I've already had a few sales of that. I think you're absolutely right. Then in the summer, I usually do ... I actually did a, I did a really fun book club last summer. I did invite Isaac, by the way.

Jocelyn Sams: Oh, okay.

Shane Sams: Oh, you did? Was it virtual? Was it an email? Okay.

Melissa Webb: I was like, "Hey, Isaac should join." For some reason, you were busy or something.

Shane Sams: Oh, yeah. Okay. We will definitely look for that this year. We get a lot of messages, Melissa.

Melissa Webb: You think?

Shane Sams: You can imagine what our inbox looks like and all that.

Melissa Webb: Oh, I can only imagine.

Shane Sams: We may have missed that one. I love that, because you've got so much opportunity to make money year-round with something like this, and you can just-

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: ... kind of pass through different seasons of different people's calendars and make that happen.

Melissa Webb: Yes, well, okay. In the forum, which, okay, can I just say how much I love your forum? Because it is gold. I just, I have to say, so at first, people will, obviously, want to listen to your podcasts, because your podcasts are just free value.

Melissa Webb: I heard you first on Pat Flynn, and I haven't stopped listening to you since. That was like, I don't know ... The one I heard, because I think you've been on a few times, was back in May 2017. I think it was his number 265, I think.

Shane Sams: Oh yeah, that was-

Melissa Webb: Anyway, yeah. I started listening, I haven't stopped. At first, I was like, "This is awesome. It's all free stuff. This is really great." You are so generous as individuals. Like you can just tell it's from your heart.

Melissa Webb: I was just gobbling up all of your free information and making huge progress until finally, I was like, "I really love this forum that they're talking about. I like the idea. I want to get in there and check it out." I'm going to tell you, like people don't get how much they're missing. Like not only do you have your blueprint, which has like all of the video lessons embedded in there ... That's where I got my idea.

Melissa Webb: Like, I was like, "Ah, I love how they have this here. They still have live components, but they have all these resources that I can go to on my own time and my own schedule." Then, I jumped in and started talking to other like-minded people, and amazing, amazing. Then I heard, do you remember Cory Doohan?

Shane Sams: Oh, yeah.

Melissa Webb: He was on your number 190. He was the auto detailing expert.

Shane Sams: Yup.

Melissa Webb: Yeah. He and this other guy Nick Robishaud and then another gentleman by the name of Mike Henry. We all put together a Mastermind and we still meet. It's been like eight months. We were just figuring it out, how long it's been. It's been eight months. We meet every other week-

Shane Sams: Wow.

Melissa Webb: ... in a Zoom room. We hold each other accountable-

Shane Sams: None of you knew each other beforehand, right? None of you knew each other before the forums. You met each other like in the community and started getting together and all that.

Melissa Webb: Yes. It was your community. Yeah.

Shane Sams: Isn't it cool though, like to have like ... We always view like everything ... We try to always view it like a ... When we say community, we don't just mean like, "Oh, you're in our online membership." It's literally like a community.

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: You've got your family, you've got your friends, you've got your extended network. We really, like we even call our live event, the big one that we do every year, we call it the Flip Your Life family reunion when we talk about it. Like we don't actually call it like the live conference or some business thing, we call it the family ... "What time's the family reunion? Yeah, we're starting at 3:00." Like we actually talk about it like that.

Melissa Webb: Oh, absolutely.

Shane Sams: It's amazing how many of these little pockets of Masterminds do happen. They're all over the place.

Jocelyn Sams: Probably some we don't even know about. Like I know that there's one that meets in Ohio. There's several ladies who get together.

Shane Sams: One up in Cleveland. Yeah, that group. One in California. You guys are meeting online, virtually.

Jocelyn Sams: There are a bunch of people who do like Zoom calls and things like that. I mean, we would love to know about these. Maybe we should start a discussion in the community.

Shane Sams: Yeah. We need to get a list of all of them. Like it's crazy how ... Jocelyn and I always talk to each other about like, we talk to, yeah, we actually had someone on the podcast though today that lives in Saudi Arabia. Like what are chances that two people in Kentucky would connect on a business call and a podcast with someone on the other side of the planet.

Shane Sams: Then we hear about you guys meeting each other, and like one's in California, one's in Canada, one's over here, one's over there. It's like these connections would never happen in some random course. It's happening because this community is a living, breathing, actual place for like-minded people, family-focused entrepreneurs to connect.

Shane Sams: Yeah, it blows our mind every day when we hear stories like this. There's a funny story about Nick Robishaud. Nick came to our live event. I don't know if you know this story. I don't know, did he tell you about what happened in the moderator thing? Did he tell you guys about-

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: Okay-

Melissa Webb: He was so stoked about that experience.

Shane Sams: We have moderators in our community, people who are really active. They're in there, they're helping a lot of people. We give them a few perks to help us kind of just moderate and manage forums, just like any community would have online.

Jocelyn Sams: In September, one of the things that we offered for our moderators was when we had our live event, we had like a little special-

Shane Sams: Like moderator meetup, but with us.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so we met them like before we met everyone else, just as like a little perk of, to say, "Thank you for being a moderator."

Shane Sams: I'm standing there, and we have a lot of moderators so it's hard for me ... We have, there's so many people we have to manage, it's hard for me to remember every single person, every single minute. Nick walks up to me and I don't really recognize him. He's got a thing on that says "moderator." It says "Nick Robishaud."

Shane Sams: Like sometimes, like our assistant will hire a moderator and then we'll find out about it later, and then we'll talk to them. It's like all kinds of different ...

Jocelyn Sams: We're giving out these invitations, so when people checked-in, they got a name tag that said "moderator" if they were a moderator, and then they got an invitation to tell them where and when to go to the party.

Shane Sams: Nick comes up to me, goes, "Hey, Shane." I'm, "Hey, Nick." I thought he might have been a brand new moderator or something like that. He goes, "Shane, listen. I feel bad." I go, "Why do you feel bad, man? We're here to have a good time." He goes, "No, man. Let me tell you something." He leans in and he goes, "You see, I'm not really a moderator." I go, "What?" I go, "What do you mean?"

Shane Sams: Now remember, this is only for moderators. There's 20 people in this room, all by ourselves. I'm like, "Did this guy beat up a guy in the elevator and take his pass?" Like, "How did he get in here?"

Jocelyn Sams: The funny thing is, we never would have known.

Shane Sams: I never would have known if he had never said anything.

Jocelyn Sams: We never would have known.

Shane Sams: I would have found out later, but he goes, "Yeah, man," he goes, "I got to the sign-in table, they handed me my name badge and they handed me this envelope. I open it up and it's got my name on it and it says 'moderator.' I thought, 'Oh, no. They've accidentally put me on the moderator list.' I went over to the side and I called my wife and I said, 'What do you think I should do? Do you think I should tell them or do you think I should just go to this party so I can hang out with Shane and Jocelyn?'" She was like, "Go to the party."

Shane Sams: He just went with it and he just walked in and he was like, "Yeah." He goes, "I just, I'm sorry. I just could not pass this up. I had to come up here and talk to you guys."

Jocelyn Sams: We laughed so hard.

Shane Sams: I laughed so hard. I actually was so impressed that he did that, because that's exactly what I would have done. Like I would have totally went over to Jocelyn and like, "Look ..."

Jocelyn Sams: You would have no conscious about it.

Shane Sams: I would have had no conscious about it. I wouldn't have asked her, I'd have told her, "We're going to this party because we got in." He came upstairs, and we hung out. If anyone ever makes a mistake, they give you the key, walk through the door.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.

Shane Sams: It was absolutely-

Melissa Webb: Gosh. Yeah.

Shane Sams: I actually opened my computer and I made him a moderator right there. I just said, "All right. Now you're really a moderator, so you're here legally, Nick."

Melissa Webb: I love it. I love it. Well, and when Nick was telling us the story, because it is like the best story, he was saying like at one point he was like, "You know what? I know if this happened to Shane, he would totally go to this party, so I'm going."

Shane Sams: 100%. Without-

Jocelyn Sams: Absolutely.

Shane Sams: Yes.

Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Nick, he's one of my introvert friends. I had this conversation with him. We talked about being an introvert and all the different challenges of it. Awesome person. So glad that I had the opportunity to meet him in person.

Shane Sams: You got a good group. I would keep that group together as well.

Jocelyn Sams: They are amazing.

Shane Sams: Okay. All right, let's turn back to you now. Let's talk about your business.

Jocelyn Sams: All right, so we talked a few weeks ago and-

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Jocelyn Sams: We talked about some different things that you were working on, and we talked about kind of what next steps you were going to take. Let's start there and talk about like what were you doing before? What have you done after? Then, we'll sort of get into your next steps.

Melissa Webb: Absolutely. When I talked to you, one of the ... Well, one of the issues that I was having at the time and I know a lot of people struggle with this. I had so many ideas going around in my head that I really didn't know what to do, like in what order.

Melissa Webb: Lots of people will tell you, "Just write it all down." Okay, great. Now those ideas are out of my head but they're still staring at me, glaring at me on this piece of paper. I still don't know what I need to do first, second, third, fourth. Again, the list felt like it was 20 ideas deep.

Melissa Webb: What I loved about our conversation, Jocelyn, is that you were ... It was so, it seemed so simple to you to be able to just say, "Okay, so out of all of these things, it sounds like first we're going to want to help you grow your list, but before we do that, let's take a look at your Google Analytics. You just, you had these few steps for me to do.

Melissa Webb: One of the things that I had said is that, I really wanted to grow my home schooling audience and I wasn't sure really how to that. Obviously, I did the Facebook things and some of the social medias. You had also suggested putting things on my website, some free giveaways, things that would really draw a person in.

Melissa Webb: That whole thing about it's important that, you have to realize if people don't know you, they don't trust you, and they don't like you yet. You need to let people know you, trust you, like you. I thought, "That is a great idea. I'm going to put some things on there that are just like those giveaways, and that the course comes with an exchange in email." I did all of that.

Melissa Webb: Then you suggested I start listening to like podcasts of home schoolers, so I started looking at some of those. Then I was like, "I really want to find out ... I don't want to just, out of the blue, go to these people and say, 'May I be on your podcast? I really want to bring value to you and to your community.'" How do I ... I just felt so lost. I really appreciated that you gave me some steps in doing that.

Melissa Webb: That's where I am right now, is where I really want to continue. The question that I have or the advice that I need is if I were to approach a podcast host, what could I offer or suggest that might interest them in having me on?

Jocelyn Sams: Okay, we will get into that, for sure. I want you to talk about, a little bit, you posted a success story. We talked like, I guess it was about a month ago. We're recording this in like mid-December right now. Talk about your success story. You did these things. We talked, you did the work, and what happened?

Melissa Webb: A lot happened. I actually, since we talked last time, I have gone up in 50 ... I have 50 new subscribers and so my email list has grown. I ended up doing another ... I just have to tell you, so Jocelyn, you motivated me to like work, work, work, work, work. I think I put a few success stories in there, so I'm not even sure if there's a specific one that you're talking about.

Melissa Webb: I most recently did the KingSumo giveaway, where I was giving away books. I got more people that way. I mean, the whole thing, the whole idea, and you guys are so big on this, is it takes action people. Like you can't just think it and want it, you have to do it. I've just been doing. Like since we got off the phone, I stayed up another four hours that night, you had me so motivated.

Jocelyn Sams: I love that, I love that.

Shane Sams: Basically-

Melissa Webb: Everything's off like crazy. If there's a specific one you want to know about, you just tell me, but I just don't stop.

Shane Sams: Basically, what happened was, you talked to Jocelyn. The big thing was, is growing your list. One of the strategies she talked about was, well, if you go out and go on 20 of these podcasts, we'll probably get a bunch more emails. Right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: You started ticking off all the other ideas, like putting thing actually on your site, they can opt-in when they find the site. Going out and offering some kind of benefit or opt-in or something like that. Low and behold, you did that and your email list actually started growing.

Jocelyn Sams: The one that I was talking about specifically is the one where you talked about getting 10 new members in December. Like that's crazy. A lot of people think, "Oh, December is so busy. It's Christmas time," whatever. You said, "No. I'm not going to use that as an excuse. I'm going to create some type of value for these people and pitch them something." Low and behold, what happened?

Melissa Webb: I did. I got 10 more. I now have 70 students-

Shane Sams: That's amazing.

Melissa Webb: ... total in my online writing business.

Shane Sams: It's cool because, like after you talked to Jocelyn, like all ... These things are cumulative. That's what people really don't realize. I think that's what Jocelyn's trying to get to.

Shane Sams: Basically, if you do these five actions steps and you just get them done, regardless of it's the right order or the wrong order, the end different order, doesn't matter. Things happen. Like if you had 10 members, you add 50, 60 something, you added one-seventh of your membership in one month, right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: Well, like what if you do that again and again and it keeps getting cumulative? Then you start going on podcasts, and then it starts all adding up to where you get this snowball effect, this avalanche happens where you make things happen, right? That's where we go back to the 20 thing list that you had. You were paralyzed and not doing anything, looking at the 20 thing list on paper, right?

Melissa Webb: Yes, yes.

Shane Sams: That's where most people really fail when they try to change their life, is they see all the things and they get paralyzed, when really, if you'll just do some of the things, you'll move forward and things will happen and that cumulative compound interest effect happens until you get to the point where you can do whatever you want.

Shane Sams: I talked to ... I had a call this morning with somebody else in the Flip Your Life community and we talked about that exact same thing. They were paralyzed, they were frozen, they weren't doing anything. They were like, "Why is nothing happening?" I'm like, "Because you're not doing anything. You've got this giant list, you've got all these things, but you're not enjoying the compound effect.

Shane Sams: " Then they said, "Well, wait. Well, how much time you think we're going to put into this? How much time did you and Jocelyn put into it at the beginning?" I said, "Well, we worked from 7:00 to 5:00. We came home, we went back and forth with the kids. We stayed up 'til midnight. For seven days a weeks, 365 days for the first year, we did not get good sleep or any good rest, but now we sleep in as long as we want to." Because the compound interest is coming to fruition. We're getting that effect later.

Shane Sams: That's what we told them, and I told them earlier, and that's exactly what you're saying now. It's like, "Oh, I was paralyzed, and nothing was happening." "Oh, I got, a log jam broke free after this call, and now I got 10 members just like that." That's what we want you to do next.

Melissa Webb: That's ... Yeah.

Shane Sams: Let that loose and get even more members.

Melissa Webb: That's exactly what she did for me. Like that whole paralyzation, like that's the key word, you hit it on the nose. I felt paralyzed.

Melissa Webb: Once I started doing one thing, that is the amazing thing that I would say to anybody else. "Don't really worry with the first one or two, three things that you start. Just start, because that will motivate you to do whatever's next. Then when that ball starts rolling, it just goes. Just do not, do not stop."

Shane Sams: This, just, Jocelyn and I are like two ends of the spectrum. Like she's very much like order and I'm very much like chaos. Sometimes, when we get stuck, like Jocelyn has like ... Almost dies, because I'll just go do anything.

Shane Sams: Like the other day, we were frozen in a conversation talking some different things about membership offers. Like how we were going to move some things around in the membership itself and we were totally paralyzed. I sent an email to the list and said, "We're going to do these three things." Jocelyn goes, "Have you even made the order forms for those? Have you even made the page for those?" I was like, "Nope, but now the ball's rolling."

Shane Sams: Like we just ... Like it drives her crazy when I do that, but sometimes that's the only way you can get past the impasse is to just announce and say and do and, "What if it breaks? What if doesn't?"

Shane Sams: What was it last ... Oh, last year, when we sold the live event, I sent an order form out and I didn't connect it to anything. Jocelyn was like, "You know we have to have a survey for these people, and we have to figure out their dietary restrictions, and have to do all of these things." I'm like, "Ah, whatever. We'll do it later." Then it got it unstuck. Like we had to launch it out or it wouldn't work, right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: Yeah. It's so scary to do that, but if you don't, oh my gosh, you'll just sit there forever and wonder, "What if?" as you look back on it.

Melissa Webb: I totally agree, and I think too that the live component is so huge. Because, like I said, I'd written my list. I'd written my list many times, but talking to Jocelyn and then like sharing my success stories in the forum, a live person encouraged me. A live person said, "Go do this."

Melissa Webb: I think that a lot of people, if all you're going to do is just go read a book and go study under some other great coach, that's fine but until you get that live person who cares about you ... Jocelyn cared. Like I could tell her sincerity was authentic. She was like, "Melissa, this is going to be great. You're doing awesome." Like it was so motivating.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I don't even know that it's that you always have to talk one-on-one, because some people might not be able to make that investment right now, but there is something that you can invest in to get you to your next step. Maybe it is just joining a community like ours. I mean, I would love to have anyone as part of our community.

Shane Sams: Or getting in a Mastermind where you see other people doing it. It might even be telling you what to buy sometimes.

Jocelyn Sams: Maybe it's buying a book, maybe it's going to an event. Like there's different kinds of investment for different stages of your business. If you're not doing any of them, I got a spoiler alert, you're probably not going to make much progress. You have to invest time, you have to invest money to be able to move forward in anything that you do.

Shane Sams: That's why we did home school. Like we would have probably never done it, especially when we did it.

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: Because we actually brought two experts on the podcast who had written a book called 5-Hour Home School Week. It was, how do you pronounce their last name? It's Kaleena and Aaron ...

Jocelyn Sams: Oh, I don't know.

Shane Sams: Oh, it's Amuchastegui or something like that.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.

Shane Sams: They're on the podcast. Go listen to it. It's already aired.

Melissa Webb: They were great.

Shane Sams: Yeah. We actually brought them out and talked to them for two hours. We needed to hear and see someone else do it. Like, we need that. It's not like we're just sitting here figuring everything out on our own, right? We draw as much inspiration from other people as they do from us.

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: That's just a part of it. Let's go back, let's circle back around to this question about the podcast. Because this was a very interesting question because we always ask people about fears and obstacles, and then we talk practically about what to do next for business. This is the ultimate question that, basically, rolls all of that into one.

Shane Sams: It's like, "How do I approach someone else to be on their platform?" Because that in itself brings all of your insecurities, all of your doubts, all of your disbeliefs to the front. Then on the back side, it's also like, "Then, how do I use that opportunity without being a selfish user, and I'm just using someone else for their audience?" Right?

Melissa Webb: Yes, yes.

Shane Sams: It's like, "How do I overcome the insecurity? How do I deliver value for the audience? Then how do I ..." Selfishly is not the right word but I'm going to use it, just because it's close enough. Basically, "Pitch my thing at the end." Does that make sense?

Melissa Webb: Yes, yes. That's exactly where I am. Because by nature, I'm a giver. Like I can be almost too generous. It's so funny, in our Mastermind group, Corey is constantly saying, "Melissa, you're not charging enough. Melissa, you're in this to make money." I'm like, "Okay, okay. Well, let me just make a straight tutorial."

Shane Sams: Right.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly, yeah. A lot of people have that situation. We live in a culture where people think, "Oh, well, all information is free online." Well, I mean, that is true to an extent but-

Shane Sams: It's not curated correctly. It's not organized.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. You are delivering value to people and so there has to be some type of value exchange.

Shane Sams: Always remember this, okay?

Melissa Webb: Okay.

Shane Sams: No one succeeds alone. The people ... The big online viewers that make it look like it's all about them. I don't know, like the Gary Vs and the Tony Robbins. It looks like it's all about them, but none of them succeeded without some kind of reciprocal relationship helping them all feed into this loop that keeps everybody kind of moving forward. Like you can't ... That person can't grow their podcast without great people on their podcast, right?

Melissa Webb: True, true.

Shane Sams: You can't grow and go into new territory without someone introducing you to other people. Correct?

Melissa Webb: Correct.

Shane Sams: Just by going on their podcast, you are already helping them because it is really hard to carry solo shows. It's really hard to be the only person every day talking by yourself. Like even people that look like they do that, that have their own show where it's just them and they're just talking, they've got a team behind them doing research, helping them write the script. It's not just one person alone and they're growing forever. Does that make sense?

Melissa Webb: Absolutely.

Shane Sams: That's how you've got to approach first asking to be on other people's platforms is, hey look, this person is more than likely looking for really interesting, really helpful people to come on their show. They're looking for people that want to help their audience, because that makes them look good, and it is a status thing. It is an ego thing. It is a, "Hey, I can't do this alone. I need guests." Right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: One reason that we do our podcast the way we do it is because after about 40 solo shows in the very beginning of our podcast, we realized that we would not be able to do this forever. Like we could not just come up with topics and write scripts and do it just me and Jocelyn all the same ... There was no way that's how this podcast was going to work.

Shane Sams: At the same time, we didn't really want to bring on like expert guests and just rehash the same podcast that everybody else is doing. We thought, "Hey, people ask us great questions in our Flip Your Life stuff. Our coaching clients, our members ask great questions. Why would we not just have them on, let them ask their question, and we can talk, and it's going to help them too?"

Shane Sams: You coming on our podcast helps us because we don't have to sit for six hours and script a podcast. We just get to tell our stories and talk about our relationship and then help you move forward. We need you to help us create good content.

Melissa Webb: That's a great point of view. Yeah.

Shane Sams: You're helping the podcast as much as they're helping you, basically.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.

Melissa Webb: Okay.

Jocelyn Sams: Like as long as you're not approaching it from a selfish point of view, just go to them and say, "Hey, I have some really cool content, and I can help people teach their children at home how to write better."

Shane Sams: Yeah.

Melissa Webb: Okay.

Jocelyn Sams: I feel like you're already in that frame of mind in that you want to give to people, so just take that and run with it.

Jocelyn Sams: I just encourage you to look at other people in your space. What podcasts have they been on? That's a good place to start looking and say, "Hey, this person teaches home school writing, and they've been on podcasts x, y and z, so I'm going to go and say, 'Hey, I do something similar to this person.'" Or maybe have them introduce you, if it's someone you know.

Shane Sams: Being strategic is not being selfish. Like that, people confuse that. They get really confused and like, "Well, if I'm ... This is all about me and I'm being so strategic. I've picked, I've identified these hundred targets, these podcasts that I'm going to reach out to because I know they've got home school families listening, and it's going to put me in front of the right people." No, like that's the reciprocal, working together agreement.

Shane Sams: That podcast introduces you to the home school people who get value from you and really appreciate the podcast host that introduced them to you, so they come back and listen to the next episode to find more help, right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: Everyone wins in that feedback loop, every single person. The listener wins, because they get the information they need to solve their problem. The podcast host wins, because they created good value for their audience and they introduced them to the right person. Then you win, because you get to go and put your stuff in front of people who pay you so that you can not have to go do another job and can keep creating resources for them.

Shane Sams: Then that person comes back to listen to that person's podcast again next week, where they introduce them to a new person, which provides values, which helps them solve problems, which makes them come back and listen again. Being strategic is not being selfish. It's the way that we all help each other. Like society needs that, we have to do that or it just doesn't work.

Melissa Webb: I love that.

Shane Sams: Go out and ... You almost owe it to the podcast person to ask them to be on their show. Right?

Melissa Webb: That's fantastic. Yes.

Shane Sams: I think where people get confused is it's like the podcast host ... Well, a hundred people ask them to be on, they only have 10.

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: That's not because they don't care about what you have to say. It's because they can only record 10 episodes a quarter. Like there's a limit in time, that's why you strategically and tactically have to go out and ask 50 people to be on their podcast to get on 15 of them. Right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: It's not because you're being rejected. That's just the limitation of time. We can't have every single person on our podcast from the community. We can only have 52 people a year on this podcast.

Jocelyn Sams: Well, and then that's where you have to start getting into systems. Like our system is we look for people with success stories or people that we know in-person, people that we've talked to on coaching calls. We look for those types of people because we know that they'll make a good guest because they're actually doing what it takes to get to the next level.

Shane Sams: Yeah.

Jocelyn Sams: They probably have those types of systems too, but just look for one, look for podcasts or opportunities where you can provide value and then you can get value in return. That's the way the world works. There are going to be a lot of people who don't take you up on your offer, and that's fine.

Jocelyn Sams: Like there are thousands of people who listen to our podcasts every week who have never paid us a dime, and that's totally fine. Like that's just the way that it works. Then there are some people who are going to find enough value in what you do to want to give you some type of monetary exchange, and that's fine too.

Shane Sams: There's other kinds of value too. Like there's other ... Like we don't, like not everyone will pay you, right? Some people will listen to you and some people will use your stuff, which might give you a testimonial. Some people might ...

Shane Sams: I did a think recently where I wanted to speak at an event. I emailed our list and I just asked them to go nominate me to speak. Like, "Hey, you may not be in the community. You may not buy anything from us, but if you enjoy our podcast and you want some reciprocity, would you please go nominate me for this, or go do it?" Like, "I give you free content every week, you go do this for me." Like that's just the way the world works.

Shane Sams: I think the world makes us feel like we're not supposed to ask for anything, because like bosses don't want people to ask for raises. It's like, "Don't ask for what you want. Don't be an advocate for yourself. Don't do that." Like that's what the world tells us to do, but that's not really how we should do it, because that doesn't really help in any way.

Shane Sams: Some people are ... There's going to be some podcasters that are like, "Hey, I have a $500 fee for my podcast." That's the reciprocity they want. Maybe you're like, "Wow. They have 100,000 home school listeners. Maybe that's worth $500." Right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: It's not just an exchange of information pool. That's called a negotiation. That's what they value. Maybe you should pay it. You know what I'm saying?

Melissa Webb: Right, right.

Shane Sams: There's lots of different ways that people build in these relationships. You just have to figure out, strategically, what works best for you, and don't feel selfish about. Like why would you not want to be on their podcast? Does that make sense?

Melissa Webb: It's such a great mind shift for me, when you shared it in that perspective. That's fantastic.

Shane Sams: Yeah. Don't feel like you're bragging about yourself or that you're like, "Oh, I don't want to ... What do I have to offer them?" Well, an hour of your time. You don't get that hour back, so that's really valuable. Okay?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: Now, on the podcast, what you have to do is your part is deliver the value, right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: Deliver the value and then don't be afraid to tell people their next steps. So many people want to get their pitch right when they go on the show. Like at the end, "I got to spin everything back to my pitch. I got to spin everything back to my opt-in. I got to spin everything back to make sure that everybody who listens goes to my site and give me an email," but that's really, that's not how you do that.

Shane Sams: You deliver value for that person and help them. That's what takes people to want to go to the next step, and they'll like and trust you, and all that good stuff.

Melissa Webb: Well, and that's true from a consumer point of view as well. You've had amazing people on your podcasts, and I've never gone to their site because they pitched it. I've always gone because I think it's valuable.

Melissa Webb: Like that would be the reason why I would go somewhere else, so that's something that I certainly want to keep in mind as I do the same thing. Like I'll offer the value that makes somebody want to go there.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. The people who are most willing to buy from you, they will find you whether you give a URL or you don't.

Shane Sams: That's true. If you'll go back and listen to almost any podcast we've ever done anywhere else, we never, almost never talk about ... Like spin things back to what we're selling or anything. We don't even say ... Like sometimes I've ... When was ...

Shane Sams: I was on Michael O'Neal's podcast. I did an interview on that for a second time. I forgot to even tell our URL or our anything at the end. Like we just had a conversation for like 45 minutes, and we talked. I totally forget.

Shane Sams: I got of the call, I looked over at Jocelyn, I went, "Did I tell anybody about our website or anything?" We're like, "Nah. Forgot it." People wrote us and said, "I heard you on this specific episode and I sought you out." If you're delivering enough value, that will happen automatically. It's not about your technique or, "How do I strategically, tactically get the most opt-ins off of this?" It's like be yourself, tell your story, deliver value and people will come. They just will.

Melissa Webb: I love it.

Shane Sams: Yeah, and you got to convince them to join your email list, when they get to your website, right?

Melissa Webb: Got to have a call to action.

Shane Sams: Yeah. Actually go out and say ... I'll tell you a different way to even find the podcast. Go find the 50 home school podcasts that you genuinely think you can help the most. Don't look at their audience size, don't look at their social media following, don't do any of that. Right?

Melissa Webb: Okay.

Shane Sams: One thing we do do is when we're trying to go on an interview ... We do try to find people that have over 50 episodes because we know that person's in it for the long-run, because 90% of all podcasts stop at episode 30. Okay?

Melissa Webb: Wow. Yes.

Shane Sams: Look for people who have actually been in it, and are in it, and are staying in it, because you don't want to just jump on anything that might not be there in a year.

Jocelyn Sams: One that comes out regularly. I mean, you don't want one that comes out once a week and then like-

Shane Sams: Last episode's been out six months ago, or anything like that.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.

Shane Sams: Yeah. Yeah, so make sure people are consistently creating content before you go on it. Then, look for the ones you think you can help the most. Don't just look for the biggest ones. Okay?

Melissa Webb: Love it.

Shane Sams: Yeah. That will make it ... It'll make it a whole lot easier to pitch your stuff.

Jocelyn Sams: It'll just make it feel better for you. Like that you're really in it for the right reasons.

Melissa Webb: It will. 100%.

Jocelyn Sams: All right, we have had a lot of fun talking today. We've had some crazy stories. This has been a very unusual episode, but I hope it's been fun.

Shane Sams: Very interesting. Yeah, it's hilarious.

Jocelyn Sams: We always ask people before we finish the episode, what is one thing that you plan to work on in the next 24 hours or so based on what we talked about here today?

Melissa Webb: Well, without a doubt, we're going to end this call and I am going to go find those 50 home schooling podcasts that have had at least 50 episodes themselves, and ones that I really, truly believe that I can bring value to their audience.

Shane Sams: I think that is a tremendous goal. Based on your track record, Melissa, I have no doubt that you will go out and make that happen today. You may just be calling us in a week going, "Hey, guys. I'm on 10 podcasts. It's going to be amazing. I'm going to help a lot of people." That is awesome.

Shane Sams: Melissa, we appreciate you for coming on the show. We know how hard it is to go on a podcast and share your story and be transparent. We also know how important that is for all of our listeners out there to hear not just us, not just experts, but just other real people who are out there making this thing happen.

Shane Sams: I have no doubt that your story is going to inspire a lot of people out there in our audience. We have another inspirational thing to share with you. Because Melissa is going to share our bible verse today. Jocelyn and I draw a lot of our inspiration from the bible for our life and our business. We know that a lot of people in our audience do as well. What verse will you be sharing with us today?

Melissa Webb: I'm going to be sharing Psalm 118:24. I have to say this, before sharing it, that it's like such a blessing that we are given the ability to have our own thoughts. We're not puppets, that we are allowed to believe what we choose to believe. I just think that's one of God's greatest gifts. Why not choose those positive thoughts?

Melissa Webb: For years, I have just made it a very intentional first thing that I think as I'm waking up, as my eyes are opening. I just claim this verse every single morning. "Today is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it."

Shane Sams: Love it.

Jocelyn Sams: Love it.

Shane Sams: Absolutely love it. I actually, when I'm feeling bad ... It's funny. We all grab onto different verses, but I can't tell you how many times when I'm in a bad mood, that's the verse I always fall back to.

Melissa Webb: It's an awesome one.

Shane Sams: Just to be grateful. Just to be grateful that we're alive and things could always be worse. Let's be realistic, right?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: Man, today is the day. Rejoice. That is an awesome verse. Listen, Melissa, thank you so much.

Melissa Webb: Thank you.

Shane Sams: Cannot wait to hear you on all those other podcasts and to share this with our audience out there as well.

Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I can't wait to see this success story. Definitely come back and let us know how it goes.

Melissa Webb: Thank you.

Shane Sams: All right, guys. That was another great episode of The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast. Another amazing conversation with a real life Flip Your Life community member. Maybe you're out there right now and you feel alone. Maybe you're looking for that forum, that community, that group, that Mastermind, just like Melissa was and you need some help putting that together. We would love to help you do that inside of the Flip Your Life community.

Shane Sams: You can join the Flip Your Life community right now for free over at FlippedLifestyle.com/free. That's F-L-I-P-P-E-D Lifestyle.com/F-R-E-E. We would love for you to start your Flip Your Life journey today, and maybe someday we can share your success story as well right here on the podcast. That's FlippedLifesyle.com/free. We cannot wait to meet you and talk to you inside.

Shane Sams: All right, guys. That is all the time that we have for today. Until next time, get out there and take action, do whatever it takes to Flip Your Life. We'll see you then.

Jocelyn Sams: Bye.

Melissa Webb: When you guys have talked about numbers, like I used to think I needed like 10,000 people to find me.

Shane Sams: No.

Melissa Webb: Then you guys one time were talking about like, "Do you guys realize, you really don't need that many people?" If I had 250 people ... Because I don't want to be huge. I like the community piece.

Shane Sams: Yup.

Melissa Webb: If I had 250 people paying me $100 a month, yeah, so much for teaching.

Shane Sams: Exactly.

Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.

Melissa Webb: I never made that much in teaching.

Shane Sams: That is an amazing statement. I love hearing people say that. "If I just had x people ..."

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: ... "Paying $5 a month, I could put my child ..."

Jocelyn Sams: It's such an eyeopening thing. Like people, when they finally realize that, I mean, there are like seven to eight billion people on the earth. Like you don't need that many of them.

Shane Sams: That was the biggest epiphany. That's what really, I think, is the formula that really led to our success is us in the car one day, and me looking over and just saying, "We only make like $5,000 a month." Like, "What if we had a 100 human beings send us $50?" Like, "That literally would be as much as we're making now killing ourselves at work," right?

Melissa Webb: Right.

Shane Sams: That's the formula. How much do you want to make? How many people times what dollar amount makes that happen? What value can you provide to earn that money?

Melissa Webb: Yes.

Shane Sams: If you can figure that out, you win. Like you're going to succeed and it's going to happen.

Links and resources mentioned on today's show:

• Melissa's Website
• Flip Your Life LIVE 2019 Tickets & Registration Information
• Flip Your Life community 30-day trial

Enjoy the podcast; we hope it inspires you to explore what's possible for your family!

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